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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Charlie Horner (00:01.25)
This week Andy Burnham became the new Prime Minister of the UK, bringing a surprise for gambling audiences with his cabinet appointments. Britain's seventh leader in a chaotic decade has chosen not to rock the boat at the much maligned DCMS, retaining Lisa Nandy as Secretary of State for Digital Culture, Media and Sport. By keeping Nandi on the brief, does this signal a renewed focus by Burnham and the Labour government to kickstart a department that has been sidetracked
With an unfinished agenda that includes UK sport, heritage, media, and of course, the final implementation of the Gambling Review. Welcome back to iGaming Daily, supported by OpsMove, the creator of Positionless Marketing and the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner, and today to discuss all of this with me is our editor at large, Ted Menmuer. Ted, a new dawn has broken, has it not?
ted (00:59.98)
I think so. I was kind of tuned in yesterday and I think...
ted (01:10.252)
but I'd say kind of good vibes on day one.
Charlie Horner (01:15.182)
Good vibes on day one. Wow. I mean that's that's rare in UK politics. So but look look, we've we've we have to start b by saying we were all wrong. We have to admit we were wrong, Ted. We w in the in the sort of intermediary period between Starmer's departure and Burnham's reign beginning, we we sort of assumed that Lisa Nandi wouldn't be DCMS secretary and that she would get a a a new role.
So maybe we should start off by apologizing for li misleading our our viewers. would you like to formally apologise?
ted (01:50.984)
Yeah, I want to apologize to our audiences. For my part, the World Cup was on and watching Thomas Tuchel's England impacted my mental capacity and clouded my political judgment. And to our dear listeners, this will never happen again. I promise. It's been with me for the past 24 hours.
Charlie Horner (02:14.294)
It's good to get it off your chest, isn't it?
Charlie Horner (02:19.619)
Yeah.
ted (02:19.957)
How have we got that cut?
Charlie Horner (02:22.634)
Okay, well let's let's dive into it properly then, because it was a busy day on Monday and Tuesday, with with Burnham coming into office, making all the changes to his cabinet. But the headline for for us in UK gambling is that Lisa Nandi is keeping the DCMS brief. What what sort of early conclusions can we take from that decision from Burnham?
ted (02:48.671)
for overall.
It was a surprise and anyone who's followed DCMS proceedings in the past five years kind of recognizes that this department has turned into Let's just say kind of like an Armando Iannucci style sitcom and it really kind of resembles the thick of it In terms of kind of the department structure and its guidance Lisa Nandy was branded kind of a key lieutenant to Burnham in the build-up to him taking the premiership And she had served as shadow leveling up minister in
position to conservatives. But that was a role that was never really kind of understood. And I think kind of industry wise, we saw all the bodies back, all the trade bodies back, Nandy keeping the brief. But that really kind of tells us nothing. guess, like, mean, I guess kind of nobody wanted to write a PR welcoming a new DCMS secretary. So I did it like, Christ, no, just thank God for that.
Personally, think that Burdemore kept Nandy in reserve and I tell kind of the audience is that look, let's reflect that. Starrmer had to reset the Labour government three times during his two year tenure. So I think it's kind of too early to kind of label any department as stable just yet. Let's just hold our horses.
Charlie Horner (04:09.069)
Well,
But it is nice to have some stability in DCMS because it has been a a bit of a political stepping stone for a lot of cabinet ministers over the years. I think there's I can probably reel off a dozen names of of politicians who've held that post and then moved on to sort of bigger and brighter things following that. so I guess that th for for for the gambling sector it's nice to not have to write another PR. It's nice not to think about who the next person's going to be.
ted (04:22.133)
Mm-hmm.
Charlie Horner (04:39.417)
And what their stance on gambling is. It's probably less of an endorsement of what Nandy's done herself, more just relief that there isn't more upheaval. but Nandy isn't the only cabinet minister who is going to have a direct or indirect impact on UK gambling's head because we have a new Chancellor as well. And it was a surprise pick. John Healy is going to be the Chancellor.
ted (05:04.299)
Mm-hmm
Charlie Horner (05:07.223)
What what what can audiences learn about the the rest of the cabinet and some of the other runners and riders who who are gonna be in there and how it might impact the sector?
ted (05:17.215)
Well, I tell our audiences to log into SBC News today and tell us who's written an excellent piece and kind of four ministers that will have some influence in the gambling review. they, know, Nandi included, but John Healy, the new chancellor of the Exchequer, who was a surprise appointment. No one kind of saw that one coming. And he's not a guy that, you know.
He's, I wouldn't say been in the sidelines, but as a politician, he hasn't really been kind of spotlighted by, he really is coming in from the shadows for the Labour government. Not really a guy of big profile. So again,
you know, decision that kind of raises eyebrows for Andy Burnham, taking him such a kind of big appointment, especially with kind of other names considered. The other department is Jonathan Reynolds, and yesterday was announced that digital will be reassigned again and will be transferred to the Department of Business and Trade. It used to be under the Department of Science and Industry and Technologies. That was a department created by the Rishi Sunak administration.
Again, know, reflecting on kind of UK and its online space, it seems to be kind of an industry that has all...
a yeah it seems to be an industry that just keeps on being transferred from department to department it has not kind of settled in but it always carries this problem of improving productivity and improving kind of the UK's digital economy so we kind of expect more than that and then Yvette Cooper who has taken the position of department of health and social care and she will be kind of a key player on the finalization of the
ted (07:05.069)
gambling levy its structure and how that system is going to work with third-party partners, a massive project for the NHS and one that carries significant anxieties for the sector and how it's seen by the UK public.
Charlie Horner (07:22.721)
Hmm. Yeah, yeah, four f four ministers there who who are going to be crucial for the oversight of of gambling policies. I would definitely encourage listeners to to go to SBC News and check out that piece from from Ted Omclay. It's it's a really good overview of of the new cabinet and and how it might impact us as a sector. Ted Ted, look, we we we know that Andy Burnham
Has somewhat of a vision for for DCMS. We know that he loves music. We know he's a he's a guitar playing Smith's loving raver at the Hacienda every weekend. We know he's a passionate blue, he loves Everton. But what do we know about his actual policies about
ted (07:54.857)
Yeah.
Charlie Horner (08:09.463)
culture, media, sport and and and the digital sector. D does he actually value this as a department? You know, we know this is a department that has had a lot of churn and prime ministers tend not to think about it too much, but I think these industries are vital to the UK economy. so w what do you think Burnham thinks about this?
ted (08:27.815)
So going through my notes yesterday, I kind of actually find this to be kind of the most intriguing question for the Burnham Premiership. And look, if you sit back, yes, there are bigger precedents for his leadership, the economy, tackling inflation, the cost of living and that kind of mantra of local devolution that he keeps on giving out to media. But.
What kind of grabs my attention is that Burnham, like you said, is much more media savvy and a better communicator than Starman. And I think that he needs DCMS to project that it's working and delivering reforms to kind of UK media and UK culture.
And if we look at kind of his policies, yes, there's a BBC licensing and the heritage, you know, the review of heritage funding and live sports. But I think what Barnum wants to see or wants to reflect is that he's a policy effective leader, unlike Stammer, who just continually dithered in his oversight of departments.
Even if DCMS doesn't carry kind of the wider economic impact, right, he's got to be seen as effective. And I think that, as you said, he is a leader that really cares about kind of that media profile. And also...
even you know portraying kind of a different kind of cultural fit to the UK that the other opposition parties don't have that's you know in a big part that is that is part of the reason why he got elected or why he's taking power yeah
Charlie Horner (09:59.359)
Yeah, certainly. He's he's a prime minister who I think is billing himself as you know, a more of a a cost of living prime minister. He's very much talking about economics and and and the cost of living rather than anything else. I think foreign policy and and other things like that. Not really in in his in his specialist subject. So it would be it's gonna be really interesting to see how his D CMS policies play out. and and
Two things really strike me with the cabinet reshuffle the other day. W one was that digital is now being rolled back into DCMS and that science and innovation is being rolled into business and the science and innovation department is is being axed.
Another thing that really strikes me is that we have a a minister for AI, Kanishka Narayan, who who will also attend cabinet. We know that AI is going to be huge for the country, but also for gambling as well. We know it's being rolled out in i across operators and and the the sort of the impact is being felt in the sector now. What do you think these moves tell us about Burnham's approach to technology?
ted (11:04.394)
Mm-hmm.
ted (11:12.283)
Absolutely nothing. No, no, being very kind of cynical. But I think what I'm kind of reading is like you had a PM or, you know, in his candidacy, this is a guy who wants kind of more effective government and actually kind of pointed to.
Charlie Horner (11:14.117)
Nothing. Do you think this is just vacuous? Uh-huh.
ted (11:30.187)
what we've seen in the last five years is the spreading out of departments of them engaging in every vertical of the UK economy, digital sciences. And you can't just do that. You can't just create a department for every element of UK life. I don't know. It seems like another bit of a white horse.
for UK politics, but they create a department and it turns out that the mandate is already kind of overseen by others, that no one kind of takes the secretarial role in any interest. It's just a way to kind of prop up someone's status.
I think that that might be the case. And again, like every government in the UK has been guilty of this for the past kind of 10 years. This is nothing new. I would prefer if kind of AI was again under DCMS remit. think DCMS, however maligned it has been, know, it has a record of 20 years in policy development. It does have some kind of sharp figures within it. And I think that that would be the appropriate department to take on such a such a huge factor.
AI and its significance to any economy.
Charlie Horner (12:52.81)
Yeah, certainly. look, Ted, we'll take a quick break and we'll come back and we'll talk a little bit more about DCMS's agenda and what it might mean for the gambling white paper.
Charlie Horner (13:07.774)
Welcome back to iGaming Daily. Now Ted, Lisa Nandy is gonna stay in the brief at DCMS. that that's good news for continuity. But what what's on the menu for DCMS? And and what does Nandi need to deliver? and let let's try and relate that back to the gambling review settlements. what what's in store for us?
ted (13:29.765)
Yeah, look, I think it's important for kind of industry audiences to know that DCMS really carries a jam-packed agenda and one that hasn't been fulfilled. So Nandi will look after kind of reviews that are focused on BBC licensing.
heritage funding especially for regional councils and its review of live sports and those are the key assignments given to NANDE. Now for gambling DCMS will oversee the remaining stages of the gambling review and its compliance framework for financial checks and the full implementation of the statutory levy and funding of gambling harms. That planning will be primarily led by the UKTC and the NHS and its partner bodies.
Also kind of in the remit is DCMS will carry the first audit of the National Lottery under Orwin UK and how it's generated proceeds for good causes. So there'll be lots of eyes on that. Can the above kind of sidetrack Yugo Gamling's reforms? I believe so.
And part of the problem here is that DCMS holds oversight of kind of politically sensitive topics that are beyond gambling. And I think you got to look at the context of the UK and this kills me because let's not forget that the BBC and heritage funding are kind of politically charged and they will be kind of charged into this kind of all-consuming culture war that the UK lives in day in day out. So to our industry audience, I'd just say like, guys, let's not forget
that it's UK in 2026 and everything can be spun and everything can be like consumed into like just a pointless culture war. You think gambling is political, till you see the other assignments.
Charlie Horner (15:18.41)
Yeah, but there's a serious point beneath that, Ted. You know, you you say that DCMS has a lot on its plate and a lot of it can be politically charged. But we're we're talking about the rollout and the implementation of the gambling white paper, which is still ongoing, and we s we don't have permanent leaders at the gambling commission either, so th those roles need to be filled. How concerning do you think that is? And when can we expect leadership to be installed at the gambling commission?
ted (15:47.232)
It's very concerning and I think that this has really come to the top of industry leadership's anxieties, especially because the Commission is in dire need of governance in the application of its remaining reforms and these kind of generational changes, especially with regards to financial risk assessments.
that are still to go into a of live environment in which kind of the thresholds have not really been checked. And the gambling levy, was, it was hugely functional.
under the Gamble Aware system. It's now been changed to the NHS. There has been really kind of a lack of communications. The other factor here is that you need a good gambling commission or gambling commission leadership to be able to kind of view and correspond with the NHS, which is a huge structure.
On financial risk assessments, an update was provided in July on its pending roadmap. It was needed, but I think it overall, as we mentioned, it did little to calm anxieties in whether the programme can be implemented. I think that the leadership and stakeholders and trade bodies, as we mentioned in other podcasts, I think we're kind of on the white paper, we're reaching that point of no return.
And I think that is kind of driving anxieties of where, how kind of we conclude these final chapters of UK Cabinet's transformation.
Charlie Horner (17:23.168)
Well, you mentioned that we're reaching the point of no return. But before we head to the point of no return, do do you think that Andy Burnham himself might want to open up that debate again? Do you think he might want to open up that gambling white paper? Because w you know, when we thought he was gonna become leader, y you know, we start frantically googling everything that Andy Burnham's ever said about gambling and you know, the he's not been the sector's best friend.
ted (17:46.409)
Yeah.
Charlie Horner (17:52.822)
Do you think he'll open up that again?
ted (17:55.06)
Okay, we all know that yes, he has been credible of gambling, but that was done at his call for action or intervention was done at a local level to give kind of council rights on the licensing of gambling venues. And again, I think that would be kind of too harsh to just call him an out, an all out reformist or anti gambling. I think that
And I kind of pointed this out with Joyce Reader that I think that you can't take what Andy Burnham said as Manchester Mayor and apply it to his position as Prime Minister. I think he will have a different outlook for...
subjects on a national level. And I just don't think that he's going to have put on the same hat as he did as Manchester Mayor for something as complex as UK gambling. There will be kind of pressure from the Labour backbenches, but I think he is kind of strong enough to actually just stick to the agenda. And as you were saying, I mean, he really will come down in the next election to him fixing cost of living, improving kind of economic productivity and actually kind of filling that
which I think he's kind of, you know, he has pointed out about kind of local devolution and giving out kind of more local rights to improve the economy at a council level. That is kind of a big enough kind of obstacle in itself. I don't think he needs to be kind of wagering into gambling. I think that's just kind of noise in the background for him.
Charlie Horner (19:25.311)
Yeah, I completely agree. I think that everything that Burnham's going to do over the next two years is going to be about reducing that cost of living, making f people feel like their their living standards are are somewhat improving and anything that gets in the way of that he he he he should probably leave alone. but we know that this is a government that's taken a step towards the left from from where Keir Starmer was.
ted (19:37.664)
Mm-hmm.
Charlie Horner (19:51.68)
We know that the soft left of of the Labour Party are are are feeling confident, they're feeling more power than they did a few weeks ago. There might be Labour backbenchers who want to o open up the the the white paper, because it was a essentially a a conservative mandate. you know, what what do you think about that? Do you think there's gonna be pressure from the backbenches in terms of opening this back up and and and revisiting gambling regulation?
ted (20:11.755)
Mm-hmm.
ted (20:21.879)
Charlie, think it's a good observation and I've had the morning to reflect on this and to me I think that this really comes down to the financial risk programme and whether it's implemented or not. A lot of that is just down because it's the headline compliance and consumer protection of a five-year review and if it cannot be implemented, mean, let's sit back and where does that leave UK gambling and everything that it's gone through?
I think that kind of, if it fails to be implemented, the blowback points to Labour backbenchers calling for a kind of full reopening of the gambling review in which, okay, they will move away from FRAs but go towards kind of tighter advertising, full local rights on gambling licenses, and kind of a full review of compliance and what is implemented by kind of UK gambling licenses. That...
I mean, it's all of a sudden, and this is going back to what we were saying about that point of no return, right? Is that something's gotta give, something's either gonna be implemented or not. And if it doesn't get implemented, I think we put, the matter gets pulled back to let's reopen it.
Charlie Horner (21:41.676)
Do you think there needs to be a level of decisiveness at this point? And sooner rather than later, we either we either press ahead with with the implementations that that we've put forward or or not. Because if if this is opened again and there's a further review and further recommendations and further implementations, we could be talking about an entire decade of of UK politics put aside for gambling regulations. So do you do do you think for just the sake of industry confidence and a bit of certainty?
ted (21:49.074)
Mm-hmm.
Charlie Horner (22:11.629)
That a stable DCMS can finally put this sector back on track.
ted (22:21.323)
It's a tough close of I think look. God, I'm gonna give the politicians answer. It's like time will tell for me It's something that certainly kind of I'm gonna judge kind of Burman's Premiership on how he handled DCMS It has been 7 p.m. To the six years that tells you everything now in terms of kind of the the threat of reopening the the gambling review
I guess, you you've got to reflect back on what you were saying. And it's like, I believe that a lot of the Labour camp, they viewed the Gammon Review as completely in the hands of the Conservative government. And I feel that they believe that they have a right to reopen it or to ask for certain elements to be reformed or repositioned.
It's going to be another time and another period of adjustment for the industry. think kind of everyone's accepted it, but it's time that I think, as you mentioned, we get to a point of settlement. And this is why I keep on going back to the FRA program. I see that as if that gets implemented, we stay on course. If that doesn't, we've got to meander off it.
Charlie Horner (23:45.099)
Mm.
Yeah, it's a precarious position that the industry's in and I guess it all hinges on what happens over the next few months in terms of the rollout of those FRAs and we'll continue to monitor those developments. But for now, Ted, thanks for joining me. to Andy Burnham, in the wise words of Donald Trump, good luck and godspeed. thanks to Optimu for supporting the show as always, and to our listeners, thanks for tuning in to today's episode of iGaming Daily and come back tomorrow to keep up to date with all the latest global gambling news.
ted (24:02.027)
You