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Real conversations about following Jesus when life doesn't slow down — from a pastor who's still figuring it out too.
Somewhere in your life, there are words somebody said to you that you still carry. You remember exactly where you were. You remember the tone of their voice. You've never forgotten it. And in somebody else's life, there are words that you said that they're still carrying.
Greg:And you probably don't even remember saying them. That gap is what this conversation is all about. Most of us have made the promise after the argument, after the joke landed wrong, after we watched somebody's face fall because of something that came out of our mouth. I'm never going to say that again, and we mean it every single time. So why do we keep doing it?
Greg:So welcome to the God Made Podcast because Sunday doesn't fix everything. This is where me and my wife, Christie, we just have a conversation about faith, what scripture looks like, how to live it out in our lives, talk about what we've been learning through our church recently, and hopefully help you along the process of growing to be more and more like Jesus and walking through this world in a way that brings glory to him. So today we've been talking about the book of James in our church for the last few weeks and we're gonna talk some about that today. We actually have been this week studying James chapter three with our church, and James chapter three is kind of a painful passage for me. I'm gonna let Christie kinda lead this conversation and turn it over to her.
Greg:So go ahead, Well,
Kristi:we have always heard our entire lives the little saying, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me, I think is how it goes. That's a blatant lie.
Greg:Why
Kristi:why do why was that made? Why why do people want to think that?
Greg:Yeah. Really sort of research this. Why that? Because I don't know where that phrase actually comes from. If I was to guess, I'm gonna say it was an adult or probably a parent who kinda came up with that for a kid who was going through something.
Greg:And, you know, it's just words. Words don't really hurt. Getting hit with a stick or a stone or getting punched in the face, that hurts. But it's just words. Let it roll off your back.
Greg:But it's not true. Words I mean, I don't know about you, but I've been hit before and it hurts. And then it goes away. It doesn't hurt forever.
Kristi:Right. It's just too
Greg:words that hurts you years ago Right. And they still have that wound there. So the phrase, I have no idea where it comes from, but I can tell you it's a lie. And I think everybody who's listening or watching this we're very hear you. It is absolutely not true.
Greg:Listen. And James James would agree too when we've read through this passage. It is not true at all.
Kristi:So I wonder why words stick so long and so hard on us. What what is it that makes the recipient?
Greg:Oh, that's a deep question. You didn't give me a heads up you were asking that one, but I mean, Jesus says that words expose the heart, that what comes out is an indicator of what our heart is. So if you look at it from the other side, that also the words cut to the heart Mhmm. It kind of exposes what that person is really feeling about you. And I think it just it's a deeper hurt than getting getting punched in the face.
Kristi:I guess you it makes you question your own insecurities too.
Greg:Yeah. Probably sometimes we probably they're thinking what I think. It's the same thing. Or why are they mad? I'm just well, you may not agree with them.
Greg:You'd be being like, why are they mad at me? I'm just trying to do something to show them love. I mean, could be all kinds of things.
Kristi:Yeah. So have you had some experience with this is a leading question. Tell me about your tell me about your past and your struggle with having words using words that hurt.
Greg:I've never done that before.
Kristi:Oh, okay. Well, let's move on. No. Well,
Greg:I think it was last week's podcast or maybe the week before I talked about how I was teenager, kind of a backward, quiet, sit in the corner kind of teenager, didn't really want any kind of attention on myself. But then I started to come out of my shell. And the way I started coming out of my shell, the more I look back on it, I don't think I thought about this at the time, but it was sarcasm. Now my my family is sarcastic, most of us in the family. Everybody except my grandmother actually, my granny, rest of us are all sarcastic.
Greg:So it was kinda just the way I was trained and it was a defense mechanism. You know, I if I could garner a laugh from some sort of sarcastic comment,
Kristi:then
Greg:it would ease the tension. Mhmm. But then that became easy, you know, it just became the way I talk, and it actually became the way I talk to the people I care the most about. You know, that's I pick on you, I joke around with you, I say things that I wouldn't say to anybody else just to try to make you laugh or at least make myself laugh.
Kristi:Well, I think sometimes we might use sarcasm, to say what we really think. Oh, I've done that too, and
Greg:that's that's worse, but that's not how I it's not how it became for me. Probably in the beginning, I did that a lot, I would guess.
Kristi:Now you're a master.
Greg:Now it's just I mean, it's never intentional. Right. So I you go back gosh. It's been ten years ago, eleven I mean, it's been a while when I was still a youth pastor. I was teaching this passage to our youth group in James chapter three, and it starts talking about how you need to watch your words.
Greg:The tongue is is deadly poison, and it can start a fire and, you know, kinda directs everything. And the Holy Spirit just kinda hit me like a ton of bricks. Like, you gotta stop. You're hurting people. And never intentional, but I was really convicted at the time.
Greg:I've really gotta work on using words that build instead of words that burn. Mhmm. And I wasn't real successful at that, to be perfectly honest with you. You know, I tried for a while and people thought I was weird because that's not what they were used to. So Yeah.
Greg:It didn't last. Used all kinds of excuses to get out of it, and here we are ten years later, and the lure has punched me in the face with this topic yet again.
Kristi:It's like, let's try again.
Greg:Yeah. I think it's hit me worse this time, though.
Kristi:So So what actually will make us change from I mean, I know you're talking about sarcasm mainly, but our words, how what's actually gonna make us change and use words that build up.
Greg:Yeah. Well, it's like any other sin in our life. First, you've got to recognize it. If you don't recognize sin in your life and acknowledge that sin is in your life, you're never gonna change it. Then it's also recognizing you're never gonna change it.
Greg:That's just for me, when I look at the way I use sarcasm, like I say, that's my language. It's a habit that I've built up. I can't change that. It's just me. But God can change that.
Greg:So it starts, you've got to make that recognition. Lord, I know that this isn't how you want me to talk. Whether it's sarcasm, whether it's you have a really short fuse, you get angry all the time, whether it's just saying cutting words to people, whether it's gossip, that's a big one. Whatever it is, you've got to acknowledge that that's there. Repent of it and repent.
Greg:I know everybody gets confused about repent. Repenting isn't asking for forgiveness. Repenting is admitting you're doing it and then turning, stop doing it with the help of the holy spirit. And the only way that help of the holy spirit's gonna come was if you dig into the word, dig into prayer, surround yourself with some accountability people who can say, hey, you did it again and you stop. It's a long process.
Greg:I'm probably gonna be sarcastic in fifty years, but hopefully, it's a whole lot less than I am today.
Kristi:Alright. So what what kind of examples so people because some people aren't sarcastic. I don't think that I'm sarcastic very often.
Greg:Probably not. Occasionally. Usually when you're mad at me. She broke the mic. Usually when you're mad at me, you you get sarcastic.
Kristi:I could see
Greg:that.
Kristi:Yeah. But so what are some other examples of our our tongue being evil that we can point out in ourselves and and besides sarcasm?
Greg:Well, short fuse. That's a big one. Know so many people who get mad over the smallest things. Really things that affect nothing. That's a big deal in a marriage or with kids.
Greg:But it's a big deal even in friendships and workplaces, all those kind of things. So short fuse is a big one. Gossip's huge. I mean, how many times do we gossip? They don't even call it gossip.
Greg:We call it a prayer request. Or how many times are we talking about somebody because we have concern for them, but we don't go to those people with that concern.
Kristi:Alright. So going on gossip, if someone just, I mean, I know from my own experience, if someone just gets on your very last nerve and you are talking to your your friend, your bestie about that person, just event, Is that gossip?
Greg:Wow. That's hard. I think yeah. I would probably say in most cases, it is. It's probably okay to say this person is just really getting a lot of nerves.
Greg:But when you start pointing out why they're terrible and why they're getting on your nerves and you start nitpicking at those habits or those things that they do that get on your nerves, I think then it would cross over into gossip.
Kristi:Right. And not really focusing on how can I change my heart toward this person?
Greg:Just focusing on how terrible they are. Yeah. If you're talking to your you know, whoever your accountability partner is or friend or whatever, all those kind of things, and you're saying, I really cannot get over being in this person's presence just makes me angry or makes me uncomfortable. I need help with that. That that's a totally different conversation.
Greg:I wouldn't say that's gossip at all because you're seeking to change. There's also the truth. I mean, we're not always compatible with everybody. You're not going to like being in everybody's presence. You just don't need to talk to everybody else about why you don't like being in that person's presence.
Kristi:Yeah. That that's a different a different vein to go into. So I think that just this whole topic, I think that we could just kind of focus in on marriage, on helping people in marriage, whether they're newly married, young kids, been married ten years, been married thirty years. You know, there's a lot of marriage problems, and words can start that wildfire that causes the marriage to fall apart.
Greg:Yeah. I think we've probably seen that, not from us, but from people that's been in our lives over the years, marriages that seem to get destroyed. I mean, I think the statistic or the experts say that most divorces are because of finances or communication. There's probably truth to that.
Kristi:Oh, yeah.
Greg:They probably go hand in hand, to be honest with you. But in there really deeper than that? I mean, yeah, maybe on the surface level, it's because of finances, but why is the finances an issue? And maybe it's because of communication. Maybe it's because there's constant arguments.
Greg:Maybe it's because we are we just can't see eye to eye on anything. But why is that?
Kristi:There's there's the root to the problem. Yeah. It's not necessarily And there is always
Greg:spiritual. Mhmm. I mean, every issue in life could boil down to spirituality, where you're at with the Lord. I mean, every single one of them. And that sounds kinda just like a blanket statement that makes it all easy to fix.
Greg:It doesn't make it any easier to fix. It just gives you a starting point Mhmm. Of where you need to start fixing it.
Kristi:Alright. We've talked about this before. It all boils down to I mean, spiritually, if the Lord's not number one, guess who is? Yourself. Yep.
Kristi:It's all selfishness. And if we really take a look in the mirror about a lot of the things that we struggle with, it's stemmed in selfishness, which is just not, you're just not focused on the right thing. Yeah. Everything should focus around him. So what are some, I don't know what the word is I'm looking for, What are some things in marriage that maybe people watching can say, oh, I do that.
Kristi:I do that. You know, that kind of thing, just so we can name them and then talk about how to fix them. I know we can't, but the Lord
Greg:can't. Right. Nitpicking, nagging, however you wanna word that, I think that's huge. Why do you nag your spouse over what they're doing or not doing? That's typically a court answer.
Greg:What you're you know,
Kristi:they're doing it.
Greg:Or they're not doing it the way you want to do it. Or, you know, they didn't do this project. They didn't clean this. They didn't do the laundry the way you wanted it done. They didn't hang the clothes the way you wanted them hung, didn't make up the bed.
Greg:Whatever it is. Why are you nagging? Right. Because they didn't do it the way you wanted to do it. Right.
Greg:Or they didn't do what you wanted them to do.
Kristi:Which goes back to?
Greg:Spirituality, and that means you are putting yourself ahead of them and
Kristi:Right.
Greg:In the end ahead of God.
Kristi:Yeah. Because we we're not supposed to put ourselves number one. No. Not even number two.
Greg:And I'll I mean, I'll I'll admit, you look at that that kinda thing. It's a catch 22 a little bit because you do nag because sometimes a person's not holding up their end of the bargain.
Kristi:Right. Which is frustrating.
Greg:Marriage is a teamwork sport. Right. I mean, you got a team sport, and you do gotta work together. But if the other person's not putting in their weight, you still gotta treat them in a way God treats them. Show them grace.
Greg:Show them mercy. Don't be backbiting and nagging them and just kinda prodding.
Kristi:And that's hard because the the whole load comes on you, and you if they're not holding up their end of the deal
Greg:Yeah.
Kristi:Then you you have to hold it both end both hold up both ends, but and that's difficult.
Greg:Yeah. I think another big one in marriage that probably needs to be acknowledged is not only pointing out somebody else's flaws, but pointing out mistakes they made years ago. Every time you get mad, you bring back up what happened ten years ago, twenty years ago, whatever it is. You may still be hurt by whatever happened, but that I mean, at this point, you should try to mend that fence and stop because now you're hurting them every time you bring it back up. I know it's all complicated, this is making it sound easy.
Kristi:It's not easy. Not the least easy. Surface. It's it's really deep.
Greg:It's all very deep stuff. And it takes both people to make it work. But you can't do that outside of the presence of the Lord. Friends, they usually listen to this, so we'll throw a shout out to Jesse and Megan. Jesse's the one who usually says this.
Greg:He heard it somewhere that, you know, you got a husband, you got a wife, and then you got God. And if you aren't both working towards God, then you're working away from God and away from each other.
Kristi:But
Greg:you're if going towards God, then you are automatically drawing closer together. Right. There's no way not to. But it takes both of you.
Kristi:Right. Yeah. And when one person is and the other person isn't, that I mean, that's why marriages fall apart or neither one are are going toward.
Greg:Yeah.
Kristi:So you're talking about nagging, backbiting. What else? What else is there? Dragging up the past. Dragging up the past.
Kristi:Right. And just kinda those little
Greg:jabs you make. Right. Those kinda things. Anger. Right.
Kristi:Anger. And stress, just stress of life. You can because we we generally are more show our true hearts within our family, within our spouse, to to our spouse.
Greg:Why is that?
Kristi:I think the old saying is you hurt the ones you love, but
Greg:because they're probably not gonna leave.
Kristi:Because you you know don't
Greg:know that's true anymore.
Kristi:They might yeah, that's true. They might be more apt to forgive you. If you do that to, you know, somebody at work, they're just gonna
Greg:Report you and get you fired.
Kristi:Cancel you. So we're our true selves normally with our family, with with the ones that we live with, with the ones that we love the most. But it all goes back to your own spiritual walk and your own relationship with the Lord, because you're going to do these things. Yeah. So how how do you get all that to to work together?
Kristi:Everybody on this
Greg:page It's truly hard Because you could very easily look at the whole book of James, really, and make it all about behavior. Right. You know? Gotta fix this. Gotta fix this.
Greg:Gotta fix this. Got but but that's not the point of that letter. The whole book of James is not about do this, do this, do this. It's you'll do this because your heart's changed. And if you're not acting in this way, then your heart's not being changed.
Greg:That's the whole point of letter. Same thing with our tongue. You're not gonna fix it. You're not I mean, he says, you cannot tame the tongue. He he doesn't say go tame it.
Greg:He says you can't. He talks about how human beings have been able to tame every kind of creature, but you can't tame the tongue. So on the surface, you're like, okay, what do I do? You can't tame it, but God can through the power of the spirit changing you. I mean, you're indwelt by the spirit.
Greg:And if you're indwelt by the spirit, then you can change with the spirit's help. So you've gotta access that. And I I bring it up all the time and it just sounds like a Sunday school answer, but it's through prayer, through scripture reading, through being held accountable by other believers who are walking through it with you. That's the point of the Christian life. If you if you were doing those things, it's all gonna end up drawing you closer to the Lord and lining up in the end.
Kristi:And that's where so many people get stuck because they don't do that first step. They don't they don't
Greg:We get too busy to pray or they're just short acknowledgments. Scripture reading gets cut out. That's probably the first thing that gets cut out.
Kristi:Right.
Greg:And accountability partners. That means I gotta be transparent with no. And and when you cut all those elements out, I mean, you were never meant to do faith alone. You can't do it without the word of God, and you can't do it without speaking to God. If you're not doing those three things, you there's no hope.
Kristi:So first step?
Greg:First step, acknowledge you got a problem. That's first step.
Kristi:Okay. Second step.
Greg:Second step is start lining up those processes. Where I not doing it? What's my prayer life look like? When I pray, am I just asking God for stuff? Not just like physical stuff, but like heal this person, give me this car, help me get this job, get into this college, get me a husband or a wife, whatever it is, give me kids.
Kristi:A lot of self focus.
Greg:It's all self focused. And a lot of prayer ends up that way. So what's your prayer life look like? Is it God change me? I'm really struggling with this, change me.
Greg:God, make me more like Jesus. Help me to walk in a way that brings you glory. Help me to love that person at my job who I really can't stand to talk to. We don't have to be friends, but help me love them. You gotta analyze that.
Greg:You gotta have somebody who who's holding you accountable too. I mean
Kristi:Everything just flows. All the thing all the behaviors that that we think we have to do as Christians all just flows out of our relationship with the And
Greg:that's the danger of it all. It can just become behavior modification. But behavior modification is not the point. Heart change is the point. Behavior modification is the result of it.
Greg:So you can't change whatever it is, whether it's the tongue or any other sin, you can't change it. You can make it better on your own. You can probably change it for a while. I did. I stopped that sarcasm until I didn't.
Kristi:So you you were just saying, okay. You can't say that because I can't I can't be sarcastic, but you weren't changing the root.
Greg:I wasn't changing that root.
Kristi:And sounds like you're convicted again. You've gotta figure out the root and Yeah. And have the Lord help you get rid of it.
Greg:Well, I mean, honestly, I think I found the root. I think he's kind of exposed that in me because when I was kinda hitting this before, it was more about, you know, these words are not kind. I gotta stop doing that. But now I know the root is I'm doing it because it's a defense thing in me. It it easier for me to have conversations.
Kristi:Yeah.
Greg:And it's not a concern about how it makes them feel. Right. I think he exposed that in me. I'm praying and you'll hold me accountable to it. I know, that he's gonna change that in me.
Greg:I know he will.
Kristi:I guess it's a personal preference. How do you want me to hold you accountable?
Greg:Well, I mean, for me, it's gently and probably not right when it happens.
Kristi:Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I can see the defense is coming up if
Greg:it's right. If I make a comment and you come right at me, I'm probably gonna get a little angry.
Kristi:But do you want a verbal comment, or do you want me to give you the side because I did that yesterday.
Greg:The side eye could actually help. That'd probably better. Just give me the side eye.
Kristi:Did you notice the side eye yesterday?
Greg:Which time?
Kristi:I only did it once.
Greg:Okay. We'll talk about that off camera.
Kristi:Hey.
Greg:Because I don't remember.
Kristi:Okay. So one thing James does say that really made me start thinking when when we started looking at this at church and when I was studying, and it was talking about that we're all made in the image of God. And so basically, when we are using these harsh words or these sarcastic terms or whatever we're doing, we're doing that to someone created in the image of God. Yeah. That really made an impact on me.
Kristi:That made me think made me want to think about my words
Greg:Yeah.
Kristi:Before they come out of my mouth, because I don't wanna dishonor God. That Yeah. And, I mean, we I know we dishonor God with sin all the time because we're choosing self over him, but we're hurting someone else too.
Greg:That's really why this topic is so important. Mhmm. Because, I mean, if the person is just there, it doesn't really matter how you talk to him, but every single person is made in the image of God. And what's really kinda hit you in the face with that is even an atheist who's never followed Jesus, never has any intent of following Jesus, doesn't even believe in Jesus. They're made in the image of God.
Greg:Even someone who follows another religion made in the image of God, we've got to treat them like they are made in the image of God.
Kristi:I mean, and I think a lot of people, myself included, you know, we put these people in these categories over there. They're this religion. They're not followers of Jesus. They're this. They're atheists.
Kristi:They're whatever. They're all just lost. Yeah. And we we really need to just clump them together because I don't care what they call themself, they're lost.
Greg:Yeah. And the kicker of it all is Jesus died for them too. Right. Not just for me and you. And if he died for them, how can I not show them some respect?
Greg:Right. And it really comes down to a heart problem. It's really a worship issue. You're worshiping self.
Kristi:Mhmm.
Greg:No. You're not bowing to yourself, probably.
Kristi:Maybe.
Greg:Maybe some of you. I don't know. But that's really what it is. You're worshiping self because you want your way. You want your way to be heard, your voice to be heard, that gossip to be said, or that joke to land to make you feel more comfortable and get you to laugh, whatever it is.
Kristi:Or this is kind of self revealing, sometimes it feels good to be mean to somebody. It does. If you're like angry at them, you you wanna you wanna cut them. That's true. And and going back to marriages, not that I've ever done this, but you can do that.
Kristi:I mean, if if you're, like, really stressed out, you're really I don't know. The other person's not holding up their end, or the kids are are you can even lash out at your kids. And, I mean, how many things do you remember your parents saying to you that still stick in there? Like, things that they you know that they didn't really wanna hurt you, but it, like, gave them some stress relief to say whatever they said. Yeah.
Kristi:And and that made me think too. You and I talked about if someone says something to you, that's this just them attacking the image of God. I mean, this is like your your wounds and your hurts that you have, and it made me think of them differently when I think about that those words that I remember from whoever over the years. That was just their them struggling with their sin and their selfishness, and I was the recipient of it.
Greg:Coming out against you. Yeah.
Kristi:It just makes me have a little more compassion for them because they they were struggling with the same thing that I'm struggling with.
Greg:Yeah. Yeah. Know there's probably people listening to this who've been on the receiving end, and they got the wounds. We've all got the wounds. Oh, yeah.
Greg:Everybody does. But then there becomes, hopefully, that realization that that wound or those words or that harsh joke, whatever it is, it really it had very little to do with you. You were just the one there when it came out. Right. You were the target.
Greg:Absolutely. And it hurt you. Absolutely. And it's hard to forgive. Absolutely.
Greg:But it was their problem, not your problem. They were attacking the image of God within you. Attacking that sacred image. Whether you're a believer in Christ or not, you have the sacred image of God stamped on you. And that's what they're attacking.
Kristi:Right. And that that's that's a whole that opens up a whole layer of this. Yeah. Especially if you've got some people have some really deep wounds from words that people have said. I mean, like you said, we all have some, but y'all just you gotta think of it on that side.
Greg:So I guess we're gonna kinda try to wrap all this together and put put kind of a bow on it. We've gotta have a realization that our words can really break. And it's not just sticks and stones. Words break. No.
Greg:They don't break your bones. They break your spirit. And they the wounds last a really long time. You know? It's not just something that can heal up in six weeks with a cast.
Greg:Yep. This is something that lasts for years. And if you're a follower of Christ, we have to realize that our words are meant to carry the gospel. That's what we're called to be, to love God, love people. And if we're gonna love God and love people, that means we've gotta make disciples, which means we take the gospel to them and we share Jesus with with all people, whether they're our our kind of people, whether they're our enemies, we share the gospel with them.
Greg:And that's kind of the whole point of it that, you know, words can break. Gospel words, they build up. Harsh words can tear you down, burn you down. So anything to add before we wrap this up?
Kristi:No. I'm just kinda trying to think of somebody. I can think of a few people that they always seem to do that, speak life.
Greg:Yeah.
Kristi:And just gentle and kind. I was reading some things, and the one thing that stuck with me is before you say something, ask yourself, does this make me sound like somebody that belongs to Jesus? And if you don't, if it doesn't sound like it, don't say it. And, you know, think think about that because you you are you are the gospel to to some people. I
Greg:think that's a good part place to leave that on. I mean, if it doesn't sound like Jesus, don't say it. Yeah. So well, thank you guys for joining us this week for the God Made Podcast. We get together every single week and talk about things like this.
Greg:What's it look like to really follow Jesus? And if this helps you at all, share this with somebody. Hit that like button. Hit that subscribe button. Wherever you get this, whether it's an audio podcast, you're watching us on YouTube, hit that subscribe button.
Greg:It helps way more than you know. And share this with somebody who you know could use this conversation. This is the God Made Podcast because Sunday doesn't fix everything, And we will see you next week for the next episode of the God Made Podcast. And I said God Made Podcast seven times there, but that's okay. So we'll see you guys next week.