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Our weekly news show. We’ll chat about what’s happening in the world of bikes and have some fun along the way.
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Welcome back to Placeholder Podcast, everybody. I'm Kayley Fritz. Got a great show for you. We're in the smack in the middle of the Jiro now. Stage 4, stage what are we on stage?
Speaker 2:I don't know. Smack in the middle of the Jiro.
Caley Fretz:Tuesday. We're we're smack in the 1st week of Jiro.
Speaker 3:In the beginning.
Caley Fretz:We're at the smack in the beginning of the Jiro. That just doesn't have the same ring to it. You just heard my 2 co hosts today, Kit Nicholson. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm okay. Thank you.
Caley Fretz:Just okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't know.
Caley Fretz:I like to really push you on this.
Speaker 2:Okay. This is a hard question to answer truthfully. It's great. Uh-oh. I've had a great walk with Lachie this afternoon, so I'm I'm I'm doing well.
Speaker 2:And I've I've had my Garrett Thomas Grantor haircut. So I'm it not by his wife, but it's I feel I feel more me, rather like I think he does too. So, yeah, there we go.
Caley Fretz:Sounds like you're just doing swell. I'm glad to hear it. And Johnny Long, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3:Thanks. I liked Kit's questioning of that question. And I liked, Kaylee, you stepping into being the HR person. You always remind us who you are. H h.
Speaker 3:HR.
Caley Fretz:We say h, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah. H is the right way. It's not bad.
Caley Fretz:I feel like a very American thing to just sort of demand that people respond to that question with, yeah. I'm great. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It is. It literally is American.
Speaker 2:Well, it's the same same here. It's like, how are you doing? I'm fine. Okay. Good.
Speaker 2:Then we can move on with our lives.
Caley Fretz:Alright. Well, let's move on with our lives and head over to Italia, the Giro. My it might be my favorite might be my favorite grand tour of the 3, to be perfectly honest. It is spectacular, and I'm gonna make the case a little later in the show that it's approximately 10 times better than the Vuelta, even though the start list is inevitably not if worse is the right word, but, fewer fewer, like, big GC names generally show up to Vuelta
Speaker 2:or show up to Jiro. We'll talk about
Caley Fretz:that later. We're also gonna talk about Tarek Poggaca who's been, well, he's already in pink and also kind of purple. And he has already put a stamp down on this Giro d'Italia and doing crazy things that we love to see. Talk about Garrett Thomas and his position as the Peloton's frazzled, exasperated uncle. Talk about some Jira side quests.
Caley Fretz:I'm a big fan of the good Jira side quests, and and the side quests at the Jira do change over time. We've got a the return of a side quest, in fact, this year. A bit about Demi Bowling and her, well, putting a signature down with Nike, which is quite exciting. And well, we'll talk a little bit about previous riders that have that have signed with the same company. We've got Johnny shorts.
Caley Fretz:We've got a new segment this week called Cheaper of the Week. We're gonna hear about a politician in London that Johnny's a big fan of. And then and then and then a bit about Jonas Vingugo, some updates on that front. But let's let's start with the Jira. So currently leading the Jira to Italia.
Caley Fretz:Kit, pop quiz.
Speaker 2:Is it Tade Paglia?
Caley Fretz:It is well done. And how did he do that?
Speaker 2:He won a stage, and then he tried to win another stage, and then he probably tried to win another stage. No. It's just basically, trying to win as much as possible, put as much time into everyone as possible, and then he can rest for a couple of weeks, I think.
Caley Fretz:So there was a comment on a story that we put up yesterday that I thought summed up the question quite well, which was, is this or it I guess it was more of a statement. This is either the start of a historic double or the reason why Tadepogaca doesn't do the double. Right? The way that we've seen him ride in the first handful of stages, it's either, yeah, like, we're gonna get to the end of July and it's gonna be absolutely crazy what he's been doing for 3 months at that point. Or we're gonna look back and say, well, why did he why did he attack with Miguel Honore and Geraint Thomas on, like, the world's smallest climb on a sprint stage?
Caley Fretz:Why did he do that? That's the reason why he didn't win either.
Speaker 2:Well, there there is an argument to be made as to whether he was attacking as opposed to following the wheel, but you can fairly quickly counter that with why was he there to follow the wheel to begin with if it's honorary going off. He wasn't a threat to the GC. You know, it if it was an opportunity for random stage hunter to go off and get a stage, why would Pogoda be the one to respond? So he he he wanted to be there, didn't he? But, yeah, I mean, I I think, yeah, I I made a I commented with somebody the other day over the weekend.
Speaker 2:You know, this is you could look at this as being stage 2 or 3 or 4 of a 42 stage grand tour with a bunch of rest days in between. But, you know, it's it's he's made and that was a great slip up by was it Maragionetti on man on sat Saturday or Sunday? He talked about it being the Tour de France as if he was already there. He he he got the grand tours wrong. So there was so there it's clearly on their minds.
Speaker 2:And I think that's partly why I see this past few days as he's gonna try and get if he can get 20 to 30 seconds where he can and build up 3 minutes by stage 9, then he's doing pretty good. And he can then let his team or let other teams do some work. And and he can begin to actively recover, which is a hilarious way to consider the Giro D'Italia. But, yeah, that's that's my theory. And that's why he didn't, you know, he probably, why didn't he take more time on on Europa?
Speaker 2:It's not a very long climb, but he only took 30 seconds, which doesn't seem like a great deal for Atalep Oglica. So, yeah, that's it's chipping away, I think. But I guess the proof is in the pudding. We'll see you in these.
Speaker 3:Can I, offer you up a sort of convoluted analogy
Speaker 2:Of course?
Speaker 3:That, you know, you don't have to entertain it, but you can hear it. Have you guys seen the film Happy Gilmore at the Adam Sandler film?
Speaker 2:Of course. Long time ago.
Caley Fretz:I'm a child of the nineties. Come on.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Just checking. So his whole thing is that he's a former hockey player, right, who doesn't quite make it, becomes a golfer, has a big drive. But then the whole thing is like it's his short game, which holds him back. And then he's trying to putt the ball in the hole, doesn't quite work.
Speaker 3:They give him, like, a hockey stick, and he putt he putts with that if I remember correctly. And then he wins the championship against Shooter McGavin by hitting off the variety of infrastructure and eventually goes in the hole and he wins. But the idea was is that it didn't work if you tried to change who happy Gilmore was, you know, at his core. Like, it just didn't work. He he he had to be he had to be happy Gilmore.
Speaker 3:You know, the guy with one hand who got it bitten off by a crocodile, he that's what he was telling him him the whole time. Yeah. So with Telepigacci, he can't if he's gonna do the double, he's gonna do it his way. He can't be doing it by sort of following the wheel wheels of like a Richie Porte or, you know, like the sky bots of of yesteryear. Now he's gotta win it by attacking on the flat with 5 k to go or whatever.
Speaker 3:That's how it has to happen. It was written in the in the stone.
Speaker 2:It was. Well, I mean, he he in every single grand tour he's done to date, the, he has won 3 stages. That is how he races.
Speaker 3:So he's gotta do it.
Speaker 2:He he is going to try and win a whole bunch of stages. So we're talking about the grand tours that he has won and not won. And I didn't say lost because he rarely loses. He just kind of cuts, you know, the best of the rest or I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it, actually, no. That's not true. That's not true. I I He lost the tour last year. He he did.
Speaker 2:No. You're
Caley Fretz:right. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And Did he though?
Speaker 3:Did he lose a tour?
Speaker 2:I I have to correct myself.
Caley Fretz:Your mind, Johnny. I don't know what's Exactly.
Speaker 2:I have to correct myself. It was until last year's Tour de France that he'd won 3 at every Grand Tour he started, but he did win 2 last year. So he he he always wins, and we we all watched the Tour last year. He tried to win a lot. It's how he races, isn't it?
Speaker 2:He doesn't
Speaker 3:Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Race like a GC rider.
Speaker 3:Is the point even about Pagache doing the double? Like, for completers, for people who'd, like, maybe treat the sport as, like, a Panini sticker album where it's about putting everything in an exact place. Like, Boccaccio seems to have the level of talent and the size of talent that he should do it, you know, once, especially when it seems like something that's impossible in this day and age. But if you ask yourself, does it does it really matter if he does do it? Like, the fact that he has openly said he's trying to do it, I would say that's actually the main thing.
Speaker 3:And you if it was the other way around where he was, like, riding in the bunch, and then he's gonna spring out on stage, whatever, high in the teens to finally do the one race cracking attack. I would say that's a to a detriment to him and the race and, like, the whole sport that he's kind of recreated. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I would agree. And, you know, if he as long as he turns up to the Tour de France and he's still going for the GC and he still is able to compete for it and he ends up on the podium. If he ends up 13th, then it'll be, like, oh, well, we're done for winning the Giro, but it's a shame. Yeah.
Caley Fretz:But we all know that that's not happening.
Speaker 2:No. Exactly. That's what I'm saying.
Caley Fretz:That's what
Speaker 2:I'm saying. So if he Yeah.
Caley Fretz:Like, if he's Yeah. If he's healthy and not broken, he's he's a podium at the tour.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly.
Caley Fretz:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think yeah. You're right, Johnny. The point is that he is he's trying to do what hasn't been done in a long time, and he's going to do it the way that he should do it, which is characteristic of him.
Caley Fretz:I I was gonna say I I love Johnny's analogy there. I think the Happy Gilmore analogy is actually quite perfect. Like, he he he is Happy Gilmore. He's Happy Pogmore. That's bad.
Caley Fretz:Sorry.
Speaker 3:And they've both done adverts for sandwiches because Pagache did packaged sandwiches of for some Slovenian brand, and Happy Gilmore famously was an ambassador
Speaker 2:it'd be really disappointing if he went and Ineos Sky Sky did. Yeah. It was It's like on stage 2 when they had the pink jersey. It's like, oh, we're gonna be a GC team even though we really should let Tallypoaga should do it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:They can't help the tradition. It's like a
Speaker 3:I mean, yes.
Speaker 2:A relapsed addict. Yeah. Maybe that's
Speaker 3:a bit hard.
Speaker 2:That's a less less good analogy, maybe. But Yeah.
Speaker 3:What I was gonna just add is, it's also potentially gonna salvage the grand tour season in terms of narrative and competitiveness because if Pagache was just gonna do the tour, then he's turning up with the energy that he started this Giro with against, Jonas Vingo, who we will hear later in Johnny shorts about how he's ridden outside for the first time, and I think I've just managed to scoop this show, which may be a a show first. You scooped yourself. Yeah. But well, it wasn't even mine. It was the news is already out there.
Speaker 3:But yeah. So then that would be rubbish as well because then that would take us back to the 2021 Telepogastro tour where he was just, like, 5 minutes better than everyone else. So at least now, it might create more of an even playing field even if he turns up to tour and still is putting, like, minutes into everyone, which at that point, you know, what can he do? Yeah.
Speaker 2:You've got a tired well, I don't know if he actually gets tired, but you've got a tired
Speaker 3:will be. Right?
Speaker 2:Versus injured everybody else.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Oh, apart from Primo's Roglic Well
Caley Fretz:which, you know, is which is
Speaker 2:fine. Well yeah.
Speaker 3:But then he's got a penalty there.
Caley Fretz:He was he was back riding, like, in days. Yeah. There was no no real impact on Roglic. Yeah. Yeah.
Caley Fretz:I mean, sort of like order of injury. Yeah. Least injured to most would be what? Roglic, Benaventapol, then a think ago. Right?
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Caley Fretz:Yeah. So on stage 3, when Michel Honore comes at the left hand side, I wrote a story about this. And I'm I'm pretty sure must have heard either the wheels or a shift, because, like, turned his head before he was there. Right? Like, definitely something tipped him off.
Caley Fretz:And So he's turns his head. Yeah. And and Honore goes by and who, by the way, I totally forgot was writing for Yip right now. I feel like I'm just discovering this fact.
Speaker 2:He's been doing great.
Caley Fretz:Literally literally in that moment is when I discovered that Vico Honore is not riding for EF Education First. Anyway, Honore goes by, forgot to jumps on the wheel. Right? The only other rider to jump on, and there were a couple others around, was Geraint Thomas. Old man Geraint Thomas, we can again, we can say that because the, the age of the average age of this podcast.
Caley Fretz:Old man Garrant Thomas jumps on on the wheel and, like, can't do much. Right? He tries to pull a couple turns. His quotes after the stage were fantastic. In fact, I think we were talking on on our little Slack.
Caley Fretz:We're, like, alright. We gotta keep an eye out for for Darren Thomas quotes because we know that they're gonna be good after all this. It's something to the effect of, you know, I'm trying to give him a a turn, but he was just, like, kicking my face in, something like that. And then in the aftermath and this is I I I love this about both of them, actually. In the aftermath, Thomas puts a Instagram post up, and it's a photo of him with his hand on Pigott's shoulder.
Caley Fretz:The the quote is basically paraphrasing, alright, son. That's enough. Right? And Poggacho comments underneath it with from the gun tomorrow, which was just top top banter that we don't get from professional cyclists all that often.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I very much enjoyed that. I also enjoyed the fact that he said he was completely exhausted. He was really tired. And he tried to say it to publisher in fewer words than that, which is not very many words to begin with.
Speaker 2:So I'm I'm quite curious as to what you actually managed to say.
Caley Fretz:I think it was probably one word, and it probably started with f.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You're probably right.
Caley Fretz:Ended with ucked. Yeah. I think it's probably what that was.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But commendable to grab onto the wheel, and I I can raise my hand and say I was wrong about Thomas being off his phone, from a few weeks ago. But, yeah, it's great to see him
Caley Fretz:trying to talk about from we heard we heard from Jack Hague that this is what Garrick Thomas does. He he just sort of comes into form right at the right moment. But I guess my my sort of broader question is this is not the first time where Garrant Thomas has sort of embraced the role of the Peloton's exasperated uncle. And I I wanted to think back onto when this actually began. Kit, you had a you had a pretty good theory.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm pretty well, I mean, it could be longer. But we first started getting these fantastic quotes out of Thomas, or the the really good ones, when he was talking about the whippersnappers at the, at the tour in 22. You know, the I think we used whippersnappers in headlines at least twice. And, and then subsequently heard at the Giro last year with Evinipul, doing Evan Evanilaple things.
Speaker 2:Thomas, again, obviously, was there. And there were more of the same sorts of comments. So yeah. Yeah. It's definitely been at least 2 years.
Speaker 2:But he's a good I mean, he's not quite 10 years older than than all of them, but he's a good he's definitely in that sort of area.
Speaker 3:Do you want another movie analogy?
Speaker 2:Of course.
Caley Fretz:Always. That's for sure.
Speaker 3:I bet like, one one for 1. You gotta try again. Have you seen the dark knight rises, obviously, the third one in the in the Chris Nolan trilogy? Yes. Okay.
Speaker 3:So there's a bit where there's a bit where Bane, says about how, he says he was born in the darkness, but that Batman merely adopted it. So Talay Pagacha, he's like the Gen z, like, meme y, shitposting overlord. And then Geraint Thomas, he's going towards the end of his career. He's got into, you know, the podcast social media game. He won the Tour de France.
Speaker 3:He's immensely marketable. So what he's done is look back at, you know, his say of play now. In media, a lot of it, especially personality driven stuff is about characters. Right? It's it's it's who you are, who what slightly different version of yourself can you play?
Speaker 3:You know, that's entertaining. So for Geraint Thomas, that's who he is. Maybe he leans into a bit more. I think there's probably there's always been a bit of an old man in there. Like, even those, like, cherubic photos of him when he was riding for Barlow World with Chris Froome, there's still a bit of just like the way he holds himself and how he, like, dressed that was, like, old
Speaker 2:man waiting
Speaker 3:to get old. Yeah. And so I think that it's, it's a natural way for him to be, but I think it's great that the likes of Pagaccha and that generation who are much more comfortable in just having fun with the whole circus and rigmarole. And he's, like, he's found his place in it, and he is entertaining, and they're nice guy, I guess. It's weird to say.
Caley Fretz:I I was gonna say that I like him a lot, and I I don't think that I've fully clocked the fact that I like him a lot until relatively recently. Like, I think he's selling himself quite well in in exactly the way that you're you're explaining, Johnny. But all the way back to, you know, when I was covering the the the tour through the whole Sky era, it was if you wanted very little said, you would go to Chris Froome. If you wanted something spicy for a headline, you'd go to Dave Brailsford. And if you wanted something kind of analytical and or entertaining, you went to Gerron Thomas.
Caley Fretz:Right? And looking back, we should I should've sort of, like, I didn't really understand I I didn't really spend him a lot of time sorta think about him as a person and him as a personality. He was just another athlete that we were talking to at the end of these at the end of these races. But if I'd if I'd taken a moment to have those thoughts, it would have occurred to me that, yeah, there's actually there there's a there's a quite funny guy in here. There's a quite entertaining guy in here, and there's also quite a smart guy in here.
Caley Fretz:Like, the 2 things that we would go to him for, again, the entertainment or analysis, he was always spot on with with 1 of the 2. Right? And I think that maybe we're finally seeing that, like, the sort of the the crumbling of INEOS around him has freed him in a lot of ways. Because, you know, back then, he was still relatively careful with his answers. He wasn't essentially going direct to the audience in the way that he has as of late with his podcast on Instagram.
Caley Fretz:Like like, you he knew what that Instagram post was gonna do. Right? Like, he knew exactly what that Instagram post was gonna do prior to to doing it. It's quite quite, yeah, quite clever. He's just we're we're seeing that side of him a lot more in the last couple of years, and I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:But first on the the the sort of in the ass crumbling around thing, I think that's really key because if you remember not too long ago, there was a whole bunch of to and froing over his new contract, and he was sort of they're trying to sideline him off to make way for the new generation. I mean, that was partly again, Bernal's crash has played a huge part in this, that he didn't become the heir apparent, like, totally. So what is in effect, it's meant that Geraint Thomas, especially with this sort of institutional knowledge of INEOS, is, like, drained away with a bunch of people leaving and, you know, Brailsford stepping back from it or Rod Ellingworth going means that he is he knows the most about when they're winning, and he's the only one who can still really win the grand tours unless Ercan Burnell continues his to come back. But what he said about his personality is sort of reflected in his riding because you'd never put him in the category of most exciting races, but you'd also never, like, taint him with calling him desperately dull and boring or a wheel sucker.
Speaker 3:And you would also not even necessarily put him in the SkyBot, like, frame even though it's kind of what he is and he was a huge part of that, but you kind of forgive him it because you think he probably knows that it's bullshit as well.
Caley Fretz:Yeah. Well, I I I made this point in the the piece I read about Pagaccio after stage 3, and it was actually a piece that was kind of about about both of them. And I said that, you know, I sort of put him in this category of, like, bike racers bike racer. Right? Like, he's and what I mean by that is he, you know, he came up through the track.
Caley Fretz:He's he's sort of done his time. He, I think, is a is a quite tactically astute rider. He made that that split second decision. Like, he jumped on Bergatra's wheel, not only because, like, he was physically able to do so, but he made this the decision to do so. Right?
Caley Fretz:He didn't have to. And I I brought up a there's a whole bunch of great examples of this over the years, but I I use this one because it also had Gerrit Thomas in it. The example at 2016 where it was 2016 Tour de France stage 11, Carcassonne to Montpellier. And just a flat boring sprint stage. Right?
Caley Fretz:Like, if anyone's been that region, not a whole lot going on generally, in terms of hills and things. But we had crosswinds, and it all split up,
Speaker 2:and it blew up, and
Caley Fretz:it came back together, and blew up, and it came back together. And at the end, we had these 4 guys off the front, miss Peter Sagan, Bodnar, his teammate, and Froome and Garrett Thomas. And it was just another example of of in that case, also Froome, I think, being more interesting than he normally was. But Thomas has always done this. Right?
Caley Fretz:He's always looked for these opportunities to be an interesting bike racer. He's, you know, he's raced the classics in addition to the tour. He's done all these these interesting things. And, yeah, I just think that, in sort of the twilight of his career, interestingly, this other character, in this case, Tade Pagaccha, is allowing him to kinda shine a bit more too. They play off each other really well, both while racing and also outside of the racing, and I think there's a there's a there's probably a ton of respect there.
Caley Fretz:But it means that we get a side of Garrett Thomas that we haven't seen previously, which I've been enjoying.
Speaker 3:One of the best things about the Giro, which you rightly put in the run sheet today, Kayley, is the side quests. You know, previously, we've had, do you remember a couple years ago when they were all trying to get the ferry across from Sicily and someone nearly got left behind? Like, basically, I think you can classify things as, like, peak Jiro. From normal Jiro to peak Jiro. But one of them, which I will admit I don't know a whole lot about, so I'm interested to learn more about it, is the InterJiro competition.
Caley Fretz:Yes. One of my favorites, actually. And it it disappeared in 2006, I wanna say. It's back this year. I should say, it's back in name this year.
Caley Fretz:So what the inter Jira was and I I love this, and I think that they should bring the full thing back. Although, I also the reason they stopped doing it is because, essentially, kind of the professionalization of of pro cycling meant that fewer and fewer riders were going for it. But, basically, what it was was a a GC, like, time point in the middle of a stage. So, like, if you were in the breakaway and the breakaway was 3 minutes ahead, you got 3 minutes on the Peloton for the Interjiro that that stage. Right?
Caley Fretz:And the the time would just add up just like a regular GC, but it was in the middle. So that was the Inter Giro back then. There was a there was a a sort of blue jersey for it. That jersey has the color of that jersey has since been moved over. So there's no there's no jersey anymore.
Caley Fretz:Even though they they brought back the the InterGiro this year, there's no jersey anymore. And now, it's this sort of strange, points thing. So I'm trying to think exactly how to describe how to describe this. One of our one of our members on Discord, Bernie, we're sort of having this discussion in in the Jiro chat, and he said it sounds like you guys seen Whose Line is It Anyway? Where they say everything's made up and the points don't matter?
Caley Fretz:That that's kinda what the interjiro seems like these days. So it's sponsored by Sara Scarizioni. I don't know what it's basically an insurance company. And I think Of course. If we're being cynical, that's actually the reason it came back is because they were able to sell it to somebody and they made some bucks on it.
Caley Fretz:And they didn't bring back the old the old version probably because, I don't know. Because it it it was sort of, like I said, kinda dying out previously. The winner of it gets both a cash prize and this sounds like a real tantalizing prize here. Is it a pickaxe? A safe no.
Caley Fretz:It's a safe driving course. Oh my gosh. You you can give yourself a safe driving course.
Speaker 3:No way.
Caley Fretz:That's amazing. Win the Interjiro. So so, basically, there's there's sprint points in every single stage, kinda like the old Interjiro. And funny enough, this must have come together relatively late because I was looking at the Garibaldi, which is the what they call the road book the other day. And I was trying to find some information on this, and there's absolutely nothing in there.
Caley Fretz:But there are the inter Jira sprint points on the maps themselves. So, like, there's no copy explaining what the hell this thing is. There's just, the sprint points. And, basically, the the first three riders to cross the inter Giro finish line, which is, again, in the middle of the stage somewhere, will be awarded time bonuses of 3, 2, and 1 seconds. Valid for the overall GC ranking.
Caley Fretz:So, like, Tata Pergato and Gary Thomas should care about where the interGiro sprint points are. Also, to the first 8 riders, you get points, like, 12865 4321. Yeah. Valid for the overall points ranking. But then, also, there's some kinda other points where you just get inter Giro points,
Speaker 2:but
Caley Fretz:there's no jersey involved. But that's just for winning the safe driving course.
Speaker 2:So it's it's it's basically a regurgitation of the Vuelta's old combined jersey that Valverde always won?
Caley Fretz:Kinda? Kinda? Yeah. Kinda.
Speaker 3:Okay. So they're, like, what you'd call soft launching the re soft launching the interior. Yeah. Soft launching is, like, when you well, it's a business thing, but it's now known as, like, when you post on Instagram about having a boyfriend or girlfriend, but you only put, like, their hand in the photo and not their face so that people know you're attached, but not who to. I think it's I think it's a good idea.
Speaker 3:I'm much more excited in that, the InterGiro.
Speaker 2:I I like it. Yeah. But we've I mean, the Giro also already had things like the breakaway prize that some guy would go would get to go on stage, at the end of the race. I mean, last year, we'd have had the Derek G versus Tom Screen show, which would have been great. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Can you imagine?
Speaker 2:So the and with in, you know, fighting over a New Jersey, I we you get quite often at the, some of the, Arab rate races. They've got quite a a I think at the UAE tour, it's a black jersey. It's basically the breakaway classification. Yeah. I Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:I I wonder if because now we've got such such superior GC riders and some teams, you know, the pro teams that used to get a smattering of stage wins and now really can't they barely get a look in. They barely get any screen time. This is a we're we've now kind of into a new era when this is gonna be a a relevant classification again, and it would be actually fun to watch. It gives an incentive for the breakaways because sometimes in grand tours, we get people at the front we get a a stage where no breakaway goes because everyone goes, what's the point? Whereas if there's something to go after, if there's a jersey I think it could
Caley Fretz:or a safe driving course.
Speaker 3:Exactly. It could be the new Movistar team classification Here
Speaker 2:we go.
Speaker 3:Thing. The only question I have is that sure you know, they've got this new insurance company who've presumably bankrolled it. Are you are you telling me that Intimisci, the underwear supplier, didn't fancy going like, not sponsoring the white jersey anymore and switching over to the Intenduro? Because to me, that is crazy.
Speaker 2:I the white jersey isn't being sponsored by them anyway. I think it's I think the white jersey is being sponsored by something called EATELI, e
Speaker 3:a t. The the bottom has fallen out of the
Speaker 2:Oh, well, the
Speaker 3:the underwear market in Italy.
Speaker 2:Slow clap. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Very slow.
Speaker 2:I I might be wrong there, but I definitely one of the classification jerseys has Eataly spelled.
Speaker 3:To oh, yeah. They that have you been to an Eataly? We've got them in London.
Speaker 2:I've not been to an Eataly.
Speaker 3:They're like, they're sort of like an Italian version of Whole Foods.
Speaker 2:Of Whole Foods.
Speaker 3:And they've got, like, a little, cafe in there as well, and you can buy, like, giant panettone's for, like, a £150. I tell you what, it's a shame that Peter Sagan's not at the Giro because he sounds like someone who would win the InterGiro, and then he could also he'd probably benefit from the safe driving course after his, his DUI last year.
Caley Fretz:I have been to an eTollie in Boston. I was like, that name sounds really familiar.
Speaker 3:I was try you're looking very confused, and I was trying I was trying to figure out what it was you're looking confused about, but it's just you're trying to figure out if you'd mean to an Italy.
Caley Fretz:Yeah. I I just googled it, and they're they're all over the US. They've got they've got a couple in New York City. They got Chicago. They got Boston, Dallas, Vegas, LA.
Speaker 3:I don't really understand the business model, but then that's that's probably a good thing because I don't really understand many of those things.
Caley Fretz:Is it just is it just Italian import stuff? It's just just the big Italian importer? So is it the, like
Speaker 3:nice pasta and the little biscottis and Oh, we've we've coffee.
Speaker 2:Scotland's got their own we we've got our own, Italian
Speaker 3:Well, you got quite close ties to
Speaker 2:Italy, don't you, from margiote all over Edinburgh.
Caley Fretz:Well, speaking of side quests, we've got obviously the Intergiro. That was a bit of a side an Italy side quest.
Speaker 2:It is the white jersey, though. I've just looked it up.
Caley Fretz:Well, and speaking of the white jersey, Pagacar is now finally out of contention for the white jersey, which makes that jersey interesting again. Yes.
Speaker 3:Right? Good segue.
Speaker 2:We can stop Yeah. Talking about there being a gray jersey, although that still probably is relevant.
Speaker 3:Yeah. At least still, it's being a
Speaker 2:Poggiatur are old.
Caley Fretz:Was it is it Oetebroch says it right now?
Speaker 2:He's he's standing 4th overall currently behind, obviously, Poggiatur, Thomas, and Martinez.
Speaker 3:Did you see his interview after he got it? The, like, the Flash interview. He's quite he's quite the guy. He was very animated.
Speaker 2:I'm not that doesn't surprise me at all.
Speaker 3:Is, is Antonio Tiberi up for the white jersey as well?
Speaker 2:I think he's I think he qualifies, but he's not particularly high up the standings. Or does he? Yeah. He lost
Speaker 3:a bunch of time, didn't he?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think he
Speaker 3:lost a bunch of time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. On the cat one climb.
Speaker 3:Oh, ironic. Oh, nice. Nice kit. Good job.
Caley Fretz:I feel like most of the audience out there is gonna remember what happened here. But should we just really briefly mention? Because this is important Yeah. For kind of, like, ill conceived cat cat jokes for through the through the rest of the two and a half weeks. Right?
Caley Fretz:Like, we need to prepare ourselves for
Speaker 3:When I see, the thing is when I refer to it in the in, like, spin cycle, in a written piece, I I, like, prefix his name with cat killer, Antonio Tabari, because he did indeed shoot dead, a cat, in San Marino. A very high ranking government official in San Marino shot his cat dead with, like, an air rifle, and then he got let go by Little Trek because of it and signed by Bahrain Victoria. So there's a whole, like he had to apologize, I think, on national TV. He got, like, some educational lessons or something from Trek as part of his, like what do you call it? Like, your, re reconciliationary process, whatever.
Speaker 3:Everything got let go. But then he did resign with Bahrain and Victoria's recently and the general manager, Milan Ezzan said he's, matured a great deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And if that means believe in him.
Speaker 3:Not shooting cats in the face, then, you know, this gives hope to all of us. Interestingly, someone we know I don't I don't this wasn't shared, this was shared privately, but someone we know was recently there in San Marino and said they didn't see any cats around. So either either Antonio Tabari shot it because he didn't know what cat was and was scared, or he shot all of the cats in San Marino, and he then he just finally got caught.
Speaker 2:A lock up your daughter situation.
Speaker 3:Or that. Yeah. Lock up your cats.
Speaker 2:We're getting into dodge
Caley Fretz:television here. Anyway You
Speaker 3:asked, Katie. You literally asked.
Caley Fretz:I did ask. I asked. I asked. I I regretted it immediately. But also, for anybody who, you know, listening out there who didn't remember why we're making stupid cat jokes around Antonio De Berry, which we like, it's not a joking matter to kill the cat, to be clear.
Speaker 3:No. It's not.
Caley Fretz:We are as a podcast, our official stance is don't shoot cats.
Speaker 3:But, however We're making fun of people who do your
Caley Fretz:shooting cats. Of the guy that
Speaker 3:did it. Never forget. Yeah.
Caley Fretz:Yes. We're not making fun of the cat. Poor cat. Sorry, cat. We're making fun of the guy that did it because, come on.
Caley Fretz:Yeah. Don't shoot cats. So all of this is is to say well, think about all the story lines we've got out of just, what, 444 days of the Jiro 5 by the time you listen to this. We've got just this this maybe slightly less exciting for the battle for pink, but fantastic character battling for pink, all these other things happening, all the Jiro side quests. We have, of course, just riding through beautiful Italy as I watch the race, cruise through.
Caley Fretz:Today was basically Tuesday was basically, like, a a mini Milan San Remo, for example, right, like, down on the on the coast there, over Caponelli right at the very end. It all brings me to a distinct, but firm feeling. It's distinct and firm feeling that the Jiro is significantly better than the Vuelta and specifically. And I say this I think this is a worth worth talking about because the Vuelta generally gets a better group of riders. Right?
Caley Fretz:Better start list at the Vuelta. Often, you get all this sort of, you know, screwed something up at the Tour de France and are going for redemption so you end up with pretty great GC battles. And at least in the last couple of years, the JIRA hasn't necessarily had that. But everything around the JIRA is so much more I don't know. It's more romantic.
Caley Fretz:It's more pure cycling to me. What what do you guys think? Johnny, Kit, Jira? 10 times better than Vuelta? 15 times better than Vuelta?
Caley Fretz:20 20 times better than Vuelta?
Speaker 3:Look, I'm just gonna say it. The Giro starts at the start of the season, start of the grand tour season, so I'm excited for it. By the time that Vuelta rocks around, I'm done with 3 week stage races. It's like, okay. You buy a box of, like, 4 Cornettos.
Speaker 3:Right? The first one tastes absolutely sumptuous. The chocolate, the ice cream, the cone, it all combines to make, summery goodness. Maybe I have a second one if I've, you know, been for a long ride or I'm feeling hungry and haven't eaten for a while, sure. Maybe I'll start to feel a bit sick, but it's fine, you know, that's the Tour de France.
Speaker 3:If you eat a 3rd Cornetto, you are an insane person.
Speaker 4:I'm I'm sorry. Johnny, you're saying that we should just discount a whole grand tour because you can't handle a third delicious ice cream? Is
Caley Fretz:that the art that you're making? Dankesh, where did you come from?
Speaker 4:Oh, I'm sorry. Well, so my neighbor's doing some construction. It's a little loud here, but even over the construction, I was able to hear the slandering of the best grand tour going on on this podcast. So I decided to jump in. Somebody had to defend this race and it needs to be done.
Speaker 4:The Vuelta Espana is fatigue that you're experiencing makes you unable to appreciate the beauty of racing through not just southern Spain with its high mountains and arid plains. No. Northern Spain is great. It's beautiful. The vast country, Tunisia.
Speaker 2:Are you forgetting what happened at last year's Giro?
Speaker 4:Kind of forgetting, yeah, that, like, Prima's Roglic won. That was great. It was a nice
Speaker 2:On, like, the last weekend, but Septus won the well, to you know, it was
Speaker 4:Yeah. It it was fine. I had a good old time at the Jiro. It's great. It doesn't mean it's what I heard I heard I think what brought me on was from Durango, I could hear somebody saying 20 times better than the Vuelta.
Speaker 4:Even over here on the other side of the, of the front range, I could hear it. And I just I'm just so offended because it it's the take is just so wrong. You've got a better start list. You can't discount that. You can't just say yes, but.
Speaker 4:No. The start list at the Vuelta is consistently better. The winners are constantly better. Tade Pagacchio making his debut at this Giro is gonna help a little bit. But generally speaking, it's always the better start list at the Vuelta.
Speaker 4:The racing is more entertaining. We don't have snoozer stages like you get at the Giro where people just fall asleep all
Caley Fretz:day for a sprint stage.
Speaker 4:No. They're always always great breakaway battles. Even if they are not GC battles. You don't get these boring sprint stages at the well. That just doesn't happen.
Caley Fretz:Does is there an Inter Vuelta? Didn't think so.
Speaker 4:Well, there wasn't an Inter Jiro for, like, the last, what, 30 years. So I I I feel like that argument is
Caley Fretz:Since 2006? What's that? It's 18 years?
Speaker 4:Shadi wasn't even born when the inter jiro was last on. Also, the Vuelta has the air of desperation, and that you can't discount.
Caley Fretz:I enjoy the air of desperation. Yep.
Speaker 4:Okay. I I feel like I've But, you
Caley Fretz:know, like, the the it it fits the seasons that they're in. Right? Like, you've got the Jiro is is the race of hope and beauty. And what what's what's the official phrase? The the the most beautiful race in this beautiful place or something like that?
Caley Fretz:Alright. Lamor Infinito, love forever, That sort of thing. Like, it's just very positive. And then and then the wealth is, like, I'm
Speaker 3:Amore Finito is done.
Caley Fretz:Yeah. Amore Finito, we are done. We are Finito. This is the last chance saloons It's the last chance.
Speaker 2:For a
Caley Fretz:bunch of dudes that screwed something up in July at the past month.
Speaker 3:Trevor's about to give the elbow regardless of what happens. Yeah.
Speaker 4:After the Vuelta, I'm I'm willing to rest. But you gotta give the Vuelta its due. And now that I've done that, I've parachuted in and done that. I'll I'll let you get back to your pod I gotta write the story anyway. So, have a
Speaker 2:good podcaster.
Speaker 3:Thanks, 3 ice cream eating Dane Cash. He's got a bit
Speaker 2:of a Ned Flanders look about him today.
Speaker 3:Wow, Kit. As soon as he quits the call, and you're just straight in there with the the dough It just popped into
Speaker 2:my head.
Speaker 3:He was like, hey, Ned.
Caley Fretz:We've got one more thing to talk about here. We need to talk about Nike kinda coming back into cycling. Now, the the they've sort of flitted around cycling for years. Right? The the biggest, I guess, the biggest sort of collaboration was the Lance Armstrong one.
Caley Fretz:Right? Like, they were a major, major sponsor of Armstrong. They were involved in a lot of the development in theory. They they were pretending anyway. To to be involved in a lot of development of of some of his sort of gear and kit and things like that back in the the Armstrong days.
Caley Fretz:They also paid him a ton of money. I mean, quite famously, it was it was, was it right after Oprah, I think, that they released a statement they were dropping him and it was a big deal and and, you know, it was a huge source of of funding for mister Armstrong. But they've also kind of flitted around the the other other areas of the sport. They're they currently sponsor Letizia Paternoster. They have sponsored I I don't exactly know what these relationships look like, but they were, like they made custom shoes, for example, for, Mark Cavendish and Adam Blythe, both of them.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Caley Fretz:The shoes became something of kind of, like, a a a cult item. So, like, I had a pair of Nike pogios, which was the Armstrong shoe in, like, the early 2000 when I was, you know, 12, 13 years old and and, you know, trying to hang on my on the back of my dad's buddies group rides and things like that. And they were super cool. Right? Because I was an American kid, 12 years old, in the in the Armstrong era, and I had his shoes.
Caley Fretz:They don't make those shoes anymore. They haven't for a long time, but you were able to get if you were Mark Cavendish, you could get Nike shoes for a little while. So after all this sort of history with sport, they announced that the newest partnership is with Demi Bowling. First of all, do we do we know the the details of this?
Speaker 3:Well, but just quickly before we talk about following in the deal, just on on the shoes, and I can't believe I'm about to ask a question about shoes. This is a first row, and I'll be very happy. Was, are the shoes actually made by Nike, or was it just the fact that they were putting on, like, a big Nike swoosh on, like, an unbranded pair or something else? You know, like how with tires, they have to, like, send some Sharpie out the actual brand because they're using a fast one on the one they're sponsored by?
Caley Fretz:I'm sure that they were using a last from somebody else and a and a, you know, a factory from somebody else. But they were unique looking shoes, like, they they it wasn't like they were just sticking a swoosh on the side of a shoe. I think they were maybe DMTs for a while. Like, that was the that was the shoe they were basing them off of, but I could be wrong about that. But it was it was I think it's one of the Italian Italian shoe brands that they were basing the shoe off of.
Caley Fretz:But, yeah, kind of building it custom up from that point. In fact in fact, I think I think I I'm I'm trying to remember. I believe there was a story at some point about them, like, custom molding calves foot or something like that No. Building it. Christ.
Speaker 3:Nice job for someone.
Caley Fretz:But, yeah, let let's get let's get to the the sort of the latest Yeah. I don't know, drop in from from Nike into into the sport of pro cycling, because it is a big deal. It's it's a massive, massive company. Right? Like, the the athletes that they choose to sponsor, they elevate those athletes in in a really similar way to the way that, like, Red Bull likes to do.
Caley Fretz:Right? Like, they they apply the marketing machine to the athletes that they work with. And so applying that to demi vollerene, I think, is quite interesting for the sport.
Speaker 3:One key reason why Demi Vollering, specifically within the women's sport, could have been the obvious choice is she's supposedly about to leave, SD Worx, who have specialized as sponsor, and she's going to FDJ SUEZ where supposedly she's gonna get paid a bunch of money. So that would be an easy transition where then you can add in, you know, she wears Nike shoes to the deal. It makes a lot of sense to have the women's Tour de France winner. They're they're far fewer of them, I guess, at least in the modern era than the men's one. And it's when you look at athletes across the board, right, and especially in the Netherlands, Demi VOLUNDERS is probably one of the highest profile athletes there.
Speaker 3:So when you're thinking about sort of these these these markets on the US, that could be one. The really great point, I think, is how 9 years Demi Vollering gonna get, what the kids would call a huge bag from this new contract with whichever team she signs. She's also got the the heft of marketability as a Tour de France winner to be able to get Nike to approach her and be like, we want you to wear our shoes. We think you're amazing enough for your sport in a way that people outside of the niche of cycling and the niche within that of women's cycling, which the reality is what it is. And it's great.
Speaker 3:You know? The the thing with Nike and all these big brands that spend 1,000,000, figuring out how to get into our brains and make us think they're cool is that we do think they're cool. And seeing Nike shoes on a cyclist in the women's peloton is only a good thing even if the brand isn't amazing with Prodox problems, but it will tell other people that it is cool that Demi Vollering is doing what she's doing.
Speaker 2:And I say it's drawing attention to women's cycling.
Speaker 3:Exactly. That's great.
Caley Fretz:Yeah. Like I said, sort of chucking the marketing might of Nike behind behind anything is is generally generally good. They although they have had some interesting missteps, I think, in the last, even quite recently. Like, they just released the the US Oh, yeah. Olympic kit, like, the athletics kit, the the the track and field.
Caley Fretz:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That was weird.
Caley Fretz:Just, like, universally panned for, I think, specifically, some of the cuts on the women's clothing.
Speaker 3:It kinda
Caley Fretz:being really oddly revealing. Yeah. Super weird. They've had they've had some misses as of late, but I don't think there's any real danger in in
Speaker 3:in Cycling shoes.
Caley Fretz:With this particular deal. Well, yeah, with with cycling shoes and and and Demi. Right? Johnny, I think you make a really good point, which is that, like, this is kind of the opportunity. Right?
Caley Fretz:Like, if we're looking at how contracts are going as of late, they're getting longer and longer and longer. Right? So this this next next contract that that Volaring is gonna sign is likely to be quite a a lengthy one, and also one that is that is worth quite a lot. Working these kind of things into a deal often needs to happen at, like, the original point of negotiation. Right?
Caley Fretz:So there needs to be a team switch, basically, for a deal like this to to maybe fully get across the line. So I I think the timing is not, yeah, it's not a coincidence. I don't think we know for sure where she's going at. Right? Like, the FDG is is is the is the sort of top of the list at the moment, but we've heard UAE.
Caley Fretz:We've heard heard all sorts of things. What seems really clear and actually, Abby wrote a piece about this the other day. It's like even based on the way that they're riding, which is often quite odd, it seems really clear that, like, yep, she's out the door. That much is basically guaranteed. And the fact that she's sort of building this other, I don't know, sort of a collection of personal sponsorships around whatever teams she would go to, I think is really clever.
Caley Fretz:Like, I think it's it's it's exactly what lots of athletes and lots of sports have been doing for a very long time. And we don't see it that often in cycling. Right? Like, you you have to go to riders like Mark Cavendish, sort of with his Oakley sponsorship, for example, or the Nike sponsorship that he had previously. Yeah.
Caley Fretz:It it puts her in in quite rarefied air.
Speaker 2:There's also the suggestion that she might take Specializ with her wherever she goes.
Speaker 3:No. Really?
Caley Fretz:Seems likely.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Which is maybe partly or almost certainly partly why she raised her bike at the finish of the Vuelta on Sunday. So, yeah, I mean, she might might have got a good bonus bump for doing that and to for the marketing
Speaker 3:The Natchez van der Poel, top of the canyon. There we go.
Caley Fretz:Yeah. Yeah. I I dislike that. I do. It's it's wild.
Caley Fretz:Because if everyone starts doing it and we all start stopping on finish lines to raise our bikes up in the air, like, that's just it's just a
Speaker 2:little bit more of a journey. Would you prefer lifting the bike over the head or stopping the Garmin?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a tough one.
Caley Fretz:Either. You're asking me, like
Speaker 2:Catch 22. Yeah.
Speaker 3:The, but if you okay. If you think about it with these teams that have men's and women's squads now, For instance, this week, there's or over the past few weeks, there's been a chat of Lenny Martinez and how he's being courted by Ineos Grandes, Bahrain, victorious, Wisma Leyssebajc from Groupama FDG. The fee that he's gonna command is huge. It's like up to the million mark, if not over in terms of Of more. The the whole the whole deal.
Speaker 3:Is it worth putting money behind? Because this is all marketing. Right? This is the reason you you pay the salaries is because you want them to win or be interesting, hopefully both. And then that means that people pay attention to your brand or whatever.
Speaker 3:Is it worth doing that for a guy who maybe isn't gonna actually turn out to be all that much? He seems good, but he could also not. Or with women's cycling coming up and still much cheaper, give a a shedload of money to Demi Vodering in comparison to, you know, the average of the women's peloton and more than she was earning now. Because then you know that you've probably got a shot of her winning a Tour de France at least in the next few years.
Caley Fretz:Guess how much the Nike deal for the pro golfer, Rory McIlroy, is worth?
Speaker 3:I dread to think it's gonna be really sad
Speaker 2:and depressed.
Speaker 3:The budget escape quite just
Caley Fretz:Well, there are a
Speaker 2:10 years
Caley Fretz:number, but it is it is believed to be worth in the vicinity of a $100,000,000 US dollars.
Speaker 3:In cheese. So goppers be shopping.
Caley Fretz:Yeah. So so if if you're looking at that, you're like, okay. I think you make a good point there, Johnny, which is that for all of the rapid rise of sort of the women's peloton in sort of the collective sport watchers consciousness in the last couple of years, it's still a heck of a lot cheaper than Rory McIlroy. Right? So they can probably do some quite interesting things, and it wouldn't surprise me to see Nike step further into that space.
Caley Fretz:It's and again, this is probably comes back to the Tour de France effect. Right? It's just the the the number of eyeballs. If you're a marketer, you're just paying attention to the number of eyeballs. Right?
Caley Fretz:Mhmm. And the narrative behind it. So this story has both. This this story has both a huge number of people watching and this great story
Speaker 4:of Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's a classic Nike We're still
Speaker 2:in the first the first the first
Speaker 3:the first the first story, isn't it?
Caley Fretz:Yeah. We're still in the first couple tours tours de France Femme. Right? And there's only there's only a narrow window of time where where companies can get involved. So Yeah.
Caley Fretz:Anyway, I think it's fascinating. We need to move on
Speaker 3:Yep.
Caley Fretz:And head over
Speaker 3:Uh-oh.
Caley Fretz:To Johnny Shorts. We'll be right back. Welcome back, everybody. It's time for Johnny Shorts.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's me. Jonas can Vingergo outside again and ride for the first time a month after his bus country crash. The Dane is hopeful his rehab continues on a successful path and he can line up for the Tour de France in 7 weeks' time. We'll
Caley Fretz:see. Arnaud was delighted after being gifted a pig for winning Trois Bar Leon over the weekend. Usually, it's just the first place Breton rider who gets the porky prize, But race organizers made an exception for the Walloon Bull. He also made the little bull, thing when he went
Speaker 3:across the room and saw That was cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Caley Fretz:I like that. Celebration. Yeah. Who is the son of a farmer? Quote, I had my heart set on this, said Dali through mouthfuls of bacon sandwich.
Caley Fretz:God.
Speaker 3:That last bit might not have been true, but,
Speaker 2:you
Speaker 3:know, it's not a farmer. There are realities to that. Anyway Yeah. That's true. As Tadei Poggaca returns to 1st place in the general classification of a Grand Tour, he reacquaints himself with the banal day task of the race leader's press conference.
Speaker 3:Are you spending too much? Came the question on whether the Slovenian is burning too many matches early in his Giro Tour double attempt. Tali Pukatcha replied, so far, I haven't spent any Euros. Quite a matter of fact, he continues, I've been on a paid holiday for 6 days.
Speaker 2:Oh my god.
Speaker 3:Which is refreshing. And to be honest, I'm gonna be completely honest now, that that's how I kind of treat being at the Tour de France or Grand Tortue because it is kinda like that. Your breakfast and dinner are paid for. You do a bit of work in the day, but it is all it's all fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He's enjoying his time in Italy, I think.
Caley Fretz:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he is referring to the the first couple days of the Jiro in which he took the overall lead as a holiday.
Speaker 2:Which is terrifying. Which is
Caley Fretz:quite quite terrifying.
Speaker 3:It's just funny. Yeah. Love it. That was Johnny Shorts.
Caley Fretz:That was Johnny Shorts. Alright. I think it is it's time for us to wrap up the free portion of this podcast. We're gonna head into Escape After Dark in just a moment. And in Escape After Dark, we're gonna be talking about Johnny's favorite London politician, who has Cycling related.
Speaker 3:There's a cycling related thing there.
Caley Fretz:It's cycling related. And then a and a real brief chat about because we meant to talk about this earlier in the show, but we didn't get to it, about Jonas Vingego and and what we think, basically, whether we think he can actually come back for the tour. So with that, thank you for listening. Please give us a rating and a comment, wherever you get your podcasts that helps other people find us. And if the pod is about to end for you, consider signing up.
Caley Fretz:It's contemplative.com/join. You can also check out the join link in the show notes of this podcast. Just open it up, click the button, click some other buttons, Voila.
Speaker 3:And the bit after this free bit is so much better. Honestly, you have no idea. We actually we don't couch anything we say in it with any sort of worries about legal ramifications. And, also, I know you may be thinking, oh, but the bonus episode, you can't really get it on on Spotify. You know?
Speaker 3:That's, you know, that's why I don't listen to it even though I am in the podcast. But you forget about that so quickly. You know? Apple's always doing these updates, and you just get on with your life. So you'll get an extra little podcast player that will be the only place you listen to the placeholders bonus episodes.
Speaker 3:And Yep. It's just worth it. I'm not sure I sold it there, but I tried, and I think that counts for something.
Caley Fretz:Click that join link in the show notes, and we'll see you next week.