What on earth is Part 4 in Architecture?! Ft. Neal Shasore at London School of Architecture

Show Notes

Have you ever gone to a CPD session at your Architecture Practice, picked up a Pret sandwich and then looked at the agenda only to think in your head "Oh NO! Now I've got to listen to session on this dreary subject for an hour?!" 

"Practice is changing," Neal Shasore from the London School of Architecture (LSA) tells us, and we're here to dive into that evolution. We're stepping into a world where tick-boxing and one-size-fits-all learning don't cut it anymore. 

Join us as Neil introduces us to Part 4: an innovative programme that's challenging the status quo with affordable, modular, design-led short courses tailored for the pros. 

London School of Architecture built themselves up in 2012 against all odds in the Architecture Education industry where there established institutions for years. 

Can the LSA shake the industry again and spark minds for a second time with the introduction of Part 4? We shall see! 

📐 The Architecture Social is an online platform packed with content to help you find new jobs, stand out from the crowd and take your career in Architecture to the next level

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Host

Stephen Drew

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What on earth is Part 4 in Architecture?! Ft. Neal Shasore at London School of Architecture

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[00:00:00]

Stephen Drew: Hello everyone. Are you in that CPD? We're looking at that double glazing boring window. Your mind's melting. Was it worth that Pret sandwich? I don't know. You tell me. Well, in 30 seconds, 26 seconds, it's going to be more interesting than I'll tell you right now. Good. Okay. We're getting there.

Hello everyone and welcome to this live stream special. I am so excited you are here and it's a lunchtime. Maybe [00:01:00] you're doing your CPDs today and you think, Oh, maybe I'm going to learn something interesting today. And actually what's happened is you've rocked up. Got your sandwich and you thought, Oh, look what I'm stuck with.

Wow. On that note, I have an amazing guest with me who's doing something pivotal that is going to change the way that you're going to learn stuff after you're part three. I know, right? There is life after becoming qualified as an architect. I'm putting the life back in it. We've got the amazing Neil from the London School of Architecture.

Neil, how are you, sir?

Neal Shasore: I'm good. Thanks, Stephen. How are you doing?

Stephen Drew: I'm alright. Now, Neil actually treated me to a few drinks last night, so if I'm slurring, it's all Neil's fault, but it was an amazing evening at their new university, cool campus, it was a church, it's all changed. But Neil, I know you, but maybe people don't know you. Who are you, first of all? [00:02:00]

Neal Shasore: My name is Neil Shisore. I'm Head of School and Chief Executive at the London School of Architecture, which is a small independent architecture school in East London that was set up 10 years ago by my predecessor, Will Hunter. And we were set up to make architecture education more affordable and thereby more accessible and more diverse.

And that's what we've been doing for the last decade. And we continue to try to disrupt. The slightly tired models and conventions of architectural education and bring something new and energetic and imaginative to that field.

Stephen Drew: You've done it, and you did do it, because I remember it popping up, and I'm going to be honest, Neil, when I saw the LSA, I was like, great idea, how the heck are they going to survive against those old school institutions? But you did it, and it's what, 10 years now? Is that right?

Neal Shasore: Yeah, so the school was established 10 years ago, November 2013. I went to the launch party, which was at the AF. [00:03:00] In in London Bridge, and then we started taking students, so we launched the Part 2 program in 2015. So we've got a two year 10th birthday party, in my view. So we've had we welcomed our 9th cohort of Part 2 students.

students in September. And we've got an amazing and growing number of alumni all doing really interesting things out there in practice. We were set up, I like to say, by, with, and for practice. So we've got a practice network of over 200 architectural practices working with us. About 45 kind of close friends in practice, spanning, huge commercial entities, international practices, Fosters, Rogers, all the rest of it, down to, one person bands in Clark Well, in Hackney, and all the rest of it.

Stephen Drew: It's very cool. It's a very cool uni. Maybe if I was a part one, we're going back, I would have loved to actually gone there. And I think it's really important that we set the scene here because, you had those powers that [00:04:00] be back then and the model in its own way disrupted it.

And, it's great that the university is there.

Now, if you setting up a new university and doing these courses wasn't enough, Now, along came this other idea of yours and the team, Neil, talking about people in industry, how they're going to learn things and looking at the existing model there. So, where on earth did all this come from? The idea of part four, first of all.

Neal Shasore: Yeah, part four, essentially. modularized learning experiences aimed at people in professional practice, we hope, in time, not just in architecture, but actually across the whole span of the built environment. I suppose the idea ultimately came from when I got my first job after finishing my PhD, which was at the RIBA.

And I'm an architectural historian by training, and I suppose [00:05:00] most architectural historians who've worked for the RIBA tend to work In the library or in the collections and because I wasn't paying much attention, I ended up working in the practice department and what that meant was working across two, two sub teams, the professional programs team and the research team.

And that gave me, I think, a really strong insight into contemporary practice into, in a sense, what was working and what was working less well. We did a lot of, as part of that professional program, lots of learning experiences and training. I worked a bit on future leaders and on guerrilla tactics, sort of stalwarts of the RIBA's training offering.

But Always felt that there could be more, those learning experiences could be richer, and so when I arrived at the LSA in this role as Head of School Chief Executive in summer 2021, I was very keen to pick up that baton and explore how we could [00:06:00] deliver really intellectually ambitious solutions.

Critical, fun, rich learning experiences. At the same time I think I felt that what had happened at Grenfell and what had emerged from the Hackett Review and what we were hearing about was coming in the Building Safety Act and the new powers that the ARB would have and that the HSE would have and the kind of advancement of statutorily defined roles, among them Principal Designer, Principal Contractor, and so on.

That architectural education was not really taking the legacy of that terrible tragedy particularly seriously. And so it seemed to me that the place to start with thinking about an in depth, ambitious learning experience was actually really taking that seriously and thinking very hard indeed about fire, health and life safety.

And so we convened a roundtable [00:07:00] with a few others in January 2022 and just started to flesh out what that might look like. And that's where the first of our programs, what we now call Design for Life Fire Safety and Property Resilience was born. So yeah, that's where the idea came from.

And I think the final stimulus was probably that we know those of us working in higher education, and probably some of your viewers and listeners who've been through the higher education system, that not just in architecture, but across the sector, higher education is not broken, but it's not in the best shape.

The financial models are not necessarily working. And I think that for a school that was set up partly as a response to the fees hike with the coalition, we've got to take that seriously. We, our whole purpose is to think differently about financial models and learning models. And with this growing emphasis on [00:08:00] lifelong learning actually manifest within UK statute as the lifelong loan entitlement, that there was also something else we could do in terms of innovation in teaching and learning and in architecture and design.

Stephen Drew: well said. Well, it's very interesting. While we were speaking, we had a few little comments that have come in. Sarah says, great. So it's always good to know that we're on to a winner, especially when I'm a little bit hungover after your awesome evening last night. But also, Vaughn Harris. Who's nickname, I know him really well, is called the Baron of BIM.

And guess what, Neil Thorne Harris set up an online e platform doing BIM as well. So maybe, not fire safety and stuff, Thorne Harris actually has a bazooka called the BIM Bazooka. And I'm not making this up. He is. He is a character. But in the short term, going back, Yeah.

That could be another one.

However, you talked about design for life, which is really cool. There's one or two [00:09:00] other modules as well. So Let's talk about them first and foremost, because the one I was interested in last night was the kind of the heritage one that would have piqued my fancy in industry. Can you tell us about that one as well, Neil?

Neal Shasore: Yeah, so the Heritage Program which is called Working with Heritage, Uniting Built and Social Heritage through Adaptive Reuse. Thank you, Stephen, for having that up on the screen so I could remember the title. Was born of the fact that, We all know that in the face of climate emergency, we're going to need to work more and more with what we've got and move away from quick recourse to demolition.

And so in a sense, we're all going to become conservation architects to one degree or another. And I've been, as I guess, as a historian interacting with the heritage sector. for a long time. I'm a trustee of a charity, a national amenity society called the 20th Century Society, but also of this incredible organization called the Architectural Heritage Fund, nearly 50 years [00:10:00] old, which has been one of the most consistent social investors in communities, social enterprise, and in heritage assets.

So essentially it provides capital loans and grants to community groups and social enterprise who get hold of heritage assets of historic buildings and put them to perhaps new social purposes. And I had been, listening interestedly to the conversations we were having in the AHS and I suppose it struck me that we could come up with a kind of conservation and heritage course like no other.

that thought holistically about heritage, not just as, uh, working with old fashioned buildings.

Stephen Drew: fire alarm's

Neal Shasore: this is exciting.

Stephen Drew: Is someone smoking in the back door

Neal Shasore: Yeah, it must be. Can you hear me still?

Stephen Drew: Yeah, I can hear

Neal Shasore: I think this is some of the leftover lasagna from last night in the oven that must be smoking.

Stephen Drew: Oh, there you go. Someone's finally stopped. There's [00:11:00] someone in the background running around being like, Neil's live. Can you stop bloody smoking? you're back. Carry on, Neil.

Neal Shasore: we were thinking that we could come up with a program that was really about a holistic conception of heritage, both working with old buildings and working, thinking about social heritage, thinking about intangible heritage, about cultural heritage. And so we've constructed this course with Alan Chandler and with Esther Robinson Wild, both amazing, brilliant, Minds and engaged coming from very different perspectives, Alan from a more design and research and teaching perspective, Esther from a real estate, finance and building archaeology background to think about what this program might look like.

But the reason I think it's an important learning experience is. Especially for small and emerging practices who might be stuck doing friends and families loft conversions and side [00:12:00] returns but desperate to do more cultural projects, work with more interesting clients, is that these are projects with really interesting, sometimes quite inexperienced clients.

with interesting programs and interesting buildings. And for those practices that are looking for a stepping stone to winning work through public procurement framework, actually the sorts of projects and ways of thinking that we'll be introducing learners to will allow them to start to gain experience in typologies and with buildings that otherwise they'd be almost locked out of.

It's got a kind of ethical motivation, but there's something I think quite robust about diversifying your business and cultivating a business development strategy that can help you win this kind of work and then graduate onto even bigger and more ambitious projects.

Stephen Drew: I think so. I think it's quite exciting, right? It's [00:13:00] so exciting that it set your fire alarms off, but it is really interesting stuff. Now, me and you, we've had, we, there was a nice gathering last night. Now, because I've had a few drinks last night, the layers are gone, right? I'm just going to say it like it is.

But what I love about these courses is the agenda here is purely to inform the person, right? There's no hidden angle. There's not, there's no. Like the quote in life, there's nothing, there's a free lunch doesn't exist. And where I'm going with that is that these are very different than a typical CPD that people will have experienced.

Neil, can you walk us through why you've done this course differently and how, if someone signs up to it, how different it's going to be than rocking up, having a sandwich, listening to a little bit of the talk, and there's going to be maybe a nice, banner there with. You can spec in the product as an architect.

Neal Shasore: Yeah. Well, myself and colleagues, we talk a lot to practice and we were hearing time and time [00:14:00] again that there was kind of dissatisfaction with this, with the kind of commercial CPD market, constantly feeling like you were being flogged something not necessarily the most interesting lectures not very good sandwiches in some cases and at exactly the same time that ARB published their.

extensive review of CPD, and so we felt emboldened by the fact that the ARB were hearing that from a much larger cross section of practice than we could possibly have spoken to, and it was the same, it was the same stuff coming up. And on the other hand, that learning experiences Even by educational providers, let alone by product manufacturers, often was essentially passive learning.

So someone just rocking up and talking to you. And we that challenge. And so we started to think, what would a more active learning experience look like? What would a more design oriented learning experience look like? In other words, How could you translate that learning [00:15:00] about materials or materiality or about specification or about inclusion or about heritage, whatever, retrofit, whatever it was, actually into design and to re engage with the kind of freedom of the studio space, of the architecture school?

Even if that's virtual, and in some cases actually hybrid, and that's very much underpinned the kind of pedagogical approach that we've taken to developing these courses. We don't really think there's much like it out there on the market. They are very thoughtful learning experiences that are challenging the conventions of architectural pedagogy, I think even at part two, let alone in terms of post qualification learning at part four.

Stephen Drew: Yeah. I I love the course. And just for anyone, just for context here, I'm not being paid to do this. It's a good course. And that's why it's on here. We don't take sponsorships here. Except. Autodesk, if you do want to throw money at me, I will put your banner up on here. I can be bought from them, but I like this course and I wanted to [00:16:00] talk about as well, Neil, investing in yourself because it's a tricky subject as an architect.

Sometimes, we are under financial pressures, all this stuff. We both, we all know it's not the highest paid industry per se. That being said though, and I think that the price of the course is quite modest, but I think that I wanted to talk about that subject because I've done career coaching, Neil, and my opinion is, if you're not prepared to invest in yourself, how can you expect anyone else to invest in yourself?

How do you feel about that whole notion of, looking out for yourself, improving yourself, upskilling yourself? Maybe you get better career opportunities on the back of that initial investment.

Neal Shasore: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I, I think not only is there the imperative of these new competency frameworks, which are going to be required by the regulators. Yeah, I think investing in yourself, skilling up. Industry is changing very fast. The [00:17:00] society and the economy are going to change increasingly rapidly as we try to address potentially catastrophic climate and ecological breakdown.

So this is a very good time to diversify your skills and to make your businesses more resilient and invest not only in yourself, but also in your colleagues. And that's why, where we are unashamed of the kind of criticality and intellectual ambition of the programs that we've built, we've been very careful to make sure that each of the programs that we're piloting at the moment have a kind of real commercial advantage and pay close attention to practices needs as a business.

This is not just interesting stuff. It's supposed to provide, tangible, meaningful benefits to people's businesses.

Stephen Drew: I think so. And I think it's quite reasonable, actually, five sessions for an inclusive, inclusion in practice for 300 pound. Neil, my rate's higher per hour. So you're getting a [00:18:00] bargain if you go for this. And the other thing about that, I was going to say is why not? And this is a bit cheeky, but I'm going to say it anyways.

You can't do anything new because it's my show, but if you're bored with the stuff that your practice is saying, just mention it to your boss that there's this cheap course online. That you've seen from the LSA, and maybe you'll get something interesting to do rather than falling asleep at the wheel.

Now, on that point, last night you talked about, and you had this cool guy that was there that has been working with you and how to make these courses interesting, how to engage, how to stimulate things. I'd love to know how it's different than a standard e learning, watch a video, free options. Whoops, got the wrong option.

Go back again. How are you making this experience special than something that is boring?

Neal Shasore: So I think through a number of ways, first of all, by, by flipping the classroom and turning potentially what could be passive learning experiences into much more active ones. So each program has an amount of directly [00:19:00] delivered. Content actually often workshops rather than just lectures and then Q and A's.

So that will mean in some cases roundtables, live assessments. There's a whole kind of range of learning interactions that we've come up with. And then alongside that is, is what we've called a series of, or what I call a series of interstitial learning experiences that connects those sessions.

So every, for every course you have a workbook, which is a set of exercises. Design exercises or strategic exercises. For example, in Design for Life, our course leader, Liam Ross, has come up with a series of almost classic case studies based on the seven purpose groups in ADB. In the Heritage course, those design exercises are going to focus on a kind of scenario and brief, so you're testing your ideas, you're thinking about heritage on a kind of speculative design.[00:20:00]

You also have a reader, which is a kind of set of mind expanding media resources, some of which will be text based. We're going to be recording a lot of Podcasts, interviews, and so on. And then a toolbox. So a set of resources that can actually be used and applied back in practice. And the model that we're planning to test with the heritage course there is to create a kind of shared wiki so that over the course of the program not only the course leaders.

but also the course participants are adding to that wiki, which might be bits of regulation, bits of guidance, bits of policy, but with a kind of commentary about what's useful in them, what's not useful in them, how have other people used them. So there's this kind of shared output, this sort of shared artifact, which has a legacy beyond the course.

So as I say, it's very different from a series of webinars, where you're being talked at and you scribble down some notes and hope that [00:21:00] some of it sticks. We're much more interested in those active learning experiences and then bankable resources that can survive beyond the course and can be spread more widely than just the individual.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, well said. And it's, I think, interactive stuff like that journey of learning, it's going to be enriching, but also, I don't see any negatives that can come on the back of it. The fact that you do these things, I can guarantee that employers would also be interested in that skill set. That in someone that's pursued with knowledge as well.

So I think stuff like this, why I love talking about it, it propels careers forwards. And I think that's the point, isn't it? I had a few friends, they get their qualifications as an architect. Before I went to the LSA last night, I went to quickly to my mates at an A architecture practice and I was like, Hey, you're an architect now, how does it feel?

And he's what's next? And I think that we have to, that you go from the part one, part two, part pre [00:22:00] structure. And that's what I like about part four. It's saying, listen, why don't you keep learning, improving yourself, become a better architect, become a better professional. And I think that only Opportunity is going to come from that, personally.

Do you agree with that notion then, Neil? Is that the way to go? Do you think that some people get that anti climax when they get their part three and don't know what to do next?

Neal Shasore: Possibly, it's a long, it's a long slog. And I get some of the criticisms that seem to be leveled against, for example, the new competency regime that the RIBA and ARB are championing, this is yet another fee, this is yet another thing I have to do, I've studied for a long time, I'm being underpaid, why should I, why should I?

I think that in the medium to long term, this is the way that education is moving, and I think that will include professional education, that we will need to keep up with rapidly changing technology, legislative [00:23:00] frameworks, regulatory frameworks, and so on and people will move much more um, with greater agility, across the board.

The industry, people are going to have more varied careers and I understand why that can feel threatening in particular to, what are called the closed professions, including architects, which are predicated on having mastered a body of knowledge, which is effectively rented to the public in exchange for some privileges, right?

You have to meet a certain threshold of qualification in order to to have the privilege of calling yourself an architect, which is a statutorily protected title. I understand all of that, but I think we need to see architecture, see construction, see development, see the built environment in a much wider landscape where learning and learning across the career span.

is changing. And I think that what we're testing in Part 4 will actually support in the long term the shift from Parts [00:24:00] 1, which the ARB has effectively heralded, even if the RIBA continued to operate a tripartite system, which is about diversifying routes to the future. Entry, which I think is a healthy thing without compromising standards and qualification thresholds, but also allowing people to move across and develop new skills.

The classic example for me is that, there is no great national shortage of architects. I've probably said this on every single There is no national shortage of architects, and yet we know that there is a shortage of competent retrofitters across the assessor, coordinator, and designer role. So we should be creating learning experiences that are creating a diverse Workforce, to meet that demand, they're gaining knowledge, skills, and experience, honing behaviors, in other words, becoming competent in [00:25:00] fields actually very directly related to architecture, and then they should be able to take additional design modules that might allow them to enter the profession in a way that they can't really do at the moment and certainly not in an affordable way.

So I think thinking in this modular way and thinking about sophisticated pedagogy and learning experiences will actually be good for the accessibility and diversity of the industry as a whole.

Stephen Drew: Yeah, well said. I'm a big supporter of the part four. I think we need stuff like this. A little bit different than what potentially the current offering is. To mix it up. Now I'm fortunate that you're here, Neil. You're you're at the forefront of this, the trailblazer, so on and so forth. LSA was pioneering then, but you touched upon something of there's going to be change inbound, the ARB is talking about shifting it up.

And initially I met you when you did a presentation talking about what, how [00:26:00] the LSA has changed. Now this is all changing. Now this is all anecdotal because it's all going to change. However, I'm Where do you think it's all going, Neil, in your gut instinct? Like where is the state of architecture, the architecture industry going, slash academic industry going, in your opinion?

Where can you see it going?

Neal Shasore: God, that's a, that is a hard question. I think there's two things to say. First of all, as I said, the school is 10 years old, and that's not that old at all. And, we had a pretty bold mission there. We were, adopted the UN SDGs, so all of our students thesis projects would describe how they were meeting SDGs.

We were very ahead of the curve in terms of reviving a much more kind of industry rooted, industry oriented education. But if you think about what's happened between 2013 and 2023 in our industry, right? Grenfell, which I've already mentioned Brexit [00:27:00] the collapse of Carillion, the declaration of a climate emergency.

Some quite major shifts in the way that we think about practice, in the way that we think about wider industry. I don't see that rate of change slowing down anytime soon. There wasn't a conversation about AI, really, in 2013, and the implications that might have for design. The question for me, and I don't have any answers to this, and many of your viewers and listeners will have more developed thoughts.

I think what we need to be agitating for is a just transition to a greener construction industry and wider development industry and built environment sector. That is necessarily going to mean, I think, an evolution of roles and responsibilities and different forms, perhaps, of division of labor and division of tasks within that industry.

And possibly we need to stop clinging on to essentially 19th century models of [00:28:00] professions versus trade, and conventions of divisions of labor, and contractual forms and indeed forms of insurance because all of that will change. And, there are, again, people like Indy Johar talk much more knowledgably and compellingly, I think, about these matters.

But I think with a degree of conviction, with a degree of evidence, that this is where things are going. Now I think in particular in the UK, they're, the profession of architecture, the tripartite educational system, the relative hegemony of the school, the architecture school located within a university, will survive for a decent amount of time.

But that doesn't mean, as I say, that others of us, and in particular, we are not a university, in fact, we're a small higher education provider, and there's an important distinction need to and have the opportunity to think about, what should industry look like how do we meet the needs of that industry [00:29:00] in terms of industrial capacity skills, etc.

And I'm not sure, in particular within the world of architecture, that we're very good at doing that. We're very good at saying, well, this is the way it has been, and therefore this is the way it must always be. And a lot of the kind of change discourse is really tinkering within a model that may actually not be.

We have to remember that, the role of the architect as we know it, and the modern profession, emerged really in the 19th century in the context of a rapidly industrializing economy. architect was effectively an arbiter of a contract between his social superior, i. e. the money, and those whom he considered his superior.

Social and economic inferior, i. e. the builder, and we live in a very different world and therefore that role of the architect and the specificity of that role of the architect may change. There hasn't actually always been for all time in exactly the same way a profession of the [00:30:00] architect. In the context of the rapid changes that are going to happen if we're to survive as a species and on this planet may mean that different.

Division of labour, different definitions of roles may actually deliver safer more fulfilling, more sustainable intersecting built and natural environments than the current model.

Stephen Drew: It's a lot of change, and I think you've given the glimpse in there, but we'll have to see which way the cookie crumbles. Now Neil, I, I get a glimpse of your sense of humor and a few other things as well. But what I'd love to know is, with all these challenges and all this change, there's also some cool stuff happening as well, and I'd just like to know what really excites you at the moment in terms of Where you are, you've got Part 4, the LSA, all that stuff.

What really, at the moment, keeps you going with all of this stuff [00:31:00] going on?

Neal Shasore: It all keeps me going. We're doing, I think, really Interesting, amazing stuff. All my colleagues are, in terms of access and outreach, which I think is core to our foundational mission under the aegis of what we call Part Zero. So this afternoon, in fact, we've got a a program aimed at A level students, an extended project qualification starting that will be the first dedicated Architecture Built Environment EPQ program ever.

We have got our Saturday Club as part of the National Saturday Club launching on Saturday. We've got these incredible courses on Part 4. We've just moved. To as you saw last night, this, and I've seen before, this

Stephen Drew: Ooh,

Neal Shasore: Building in Dalston, which any of your viewers and listeners are welcome to come and see.

We're in an old parish hall, and some of these questions that our students are trying to explore in their work around adaptive reuse, around resilience. around the [00:32:00] kind of civic identity and civic infrastructure about community engagement and participation is all, we're all living that actually right now in this building, which we're painting beautiful raspberry pink and green and yellow in various places.

So that's getting us. And getting me very excited and keeping us going, and that despite, all the shit in the world and lots of things going wrong, that there is a kind of optimism, that there are opportunities to think differently and to test ideas, and in particular to work with Partners in industry who feel the same, and these are kind of shoots, of optimism, and I think that is a very big part of what the LSA has always tried to do.

It remains after two and a half years, an immense privilege to have the freedom and latitude to try things out and to try and push the envelope.

Stephen Drew: I love it. Well, you definitely push a lot of envelopes in a good way, Neil, and you've got to keep on going. [00:33:00] Now, before we, give the links to everyone where they can find the course, find the LSA and stuff, I like to flip the script, which is dangerous with you because you're too smart, but you've got maybe you've got one or two questions that you can fire upon me about the state of the industry, the Architecture Social, it could be about recruitment, it could be about anything.

What have you got, Neil, that you're going to throw at me?

Neal Shasore: Well, I, I am keen to know from you about what changes You are picking up in industry and whether you think we're going to tinker around or whether some more Fundamental change is coming and indeed is possible

Stephen Drew: Great, good question. So in terms of as an industry, it's quite interesting that one of the old directors told me before that, oh, when resi goes up, commercial goes down, vice versa. And I think what's happening in the current state of the market is that we're seeing a lot of big architecture practices making redundancies, but they're typically working on large scale housing, certain sectors like that.

And you talked earlier about [00:34:00] commercial retrofit. Now that's hot. So when you're talking about that skill set you're learning, that's incredibly valuable. And having stuff like that, you can win work, you can work with developers, but that's where all the work is. And also, internationally. Yeah, we're talking about me on the line.

It's crazy. Blade Runner. It's would you live there? It's a bit freaky, but I tell you what, in those deserts, they are building, so there's still a lot of activity. It just constantly changes. And I think that as well. Well, sometimes people say architects should specialize in some stuff, and I think that can be useful.

However, if you specialize in a sector that isn't particularly doing well, it can be tricky. And that's where I like your course. That's why I like all that stuff. So in terms of the industry at the moment, I think we're okay. People are worrying. I met an architecture practice before seeing you yesterday.

The owner was like, Oh, it's terrible out there. And I was saying, no, it's not, it's just different sectors are doing okay. And I think that you have to be [00:35:00] really quick to pivot. And like a good example as well is that no one thinks about when they study architecture, no one thinks about data centers. Why would you?

They're a big building out in the desert or out in the snowy fields or whatever. However, that sector, Neil, is going through the roof. It's high pay, it's good quality of life, constant work, because we're all now blumming phones! The amount of data there, and also, they no longer shed. In in, in a factory, some in the field somewhere, they're becoming more substantial.

They're becoming places where people work with all the data in. So there's these incredible opportunities in unlikely places. So I think that we'll start seeing the shift to that. And the bit that I'm interested in is that I think initially we all think, Oh, we're going to be Herzog Miro. We're all going to do the Shard and all this cool stuff.

And you get what I mean. You've got those awesome students coming, all bright ideas. And that's important. And that's great. What I'm saying though, those [00:36:00] unconventional ideas like the data centers or different projects, so working on airports is cool, but all this stuff, that's where all the work's going now as well.

It's not the typical large scale residential tower that, sticks up in London. It's all changing. So I'm really excited. I just think It's going to be a bit weird and wonderful for a while. Does that make sense?

Neal Shasore: That's very interesting. No it is and I think you know actually probably Developing better market insights and sharing that would be an interesting, would be an interesting sort of bit of institutional infrastructure that I think needs building and needs developing. Because I think that's all very exciting, but how do you do all of that?

How do you win that work and how do you fulfill it in a way that fulfills also the professional's ethical obligations that imbues it with a kind of civic responsibility and that is supporting it? Fundamentally [00:37:00] supporting measures to tackle catastrophic climate change and ecological breakdown. Yeah, these are interesting questions to ponder.

We must talk more about them, Stephen. Maybe we need to do an Architecture Social LSA Part 4.

Stephen Drew: how much you can charge for that one I'm on, but I'm up for it. That'll have to

Neal Shasore: you set the rate, you set the rate.

Stephen Drew: that would be the cheaper one. And they'd be, they go, Oh, I don't know. Well, tropes aside, I'd be honored. However, let's go back to the point. So I love what you do. I think that's really important.

This stuff is out there. And if someone wants to check out all that we talked about, where can they find this stuff online, Neil?

Neal Shasore: So on our website, v lsa. org forward slash part four, and you can register your interest in part four in general, or in any of the individual. Courses. And you can subscribe to courses directly. You can pay for them on our [00:38:00] website. You could also email us part4 at v lsa. org and myself or a colleague will get back to you pretty quickly.

I'm very happy to set up meetings, come into practice, talk about what we're doing. What perhaps I should have emphasized more is we are doing this for and with practice. This is not just a sort of finger in the air. and some product that we've created. We're also not doing it to get rich.

We're trying to make the school richer because if the school, which is an educational charity, has more resources we can do more, we can build more programs, we can do more access and outreach work. So yeah website. Email and then just keep an eye on all of our socials. We're on LinkedIn, we're on Twitter, we're on Instagram.

So there are many ways to get hold of us easily, and we are very happy to talk not only about the programs that are currently open for registration, but where we might take part for what we might do that's useful and who we might partner with to come up with the next tranche of really exciting, [00:39:00] innovative learning experiences.

Stephen Drew: Well, I have a funny feeling that we might be hearing more and more about part and rather than it being another part to do I think that this one is the one where people can choose what they want to learn upskill themselves and it all seems win. So on that note Neil, I thank you so much. Thank you for being here.

It's been amazing. I love what the LSA Does I think it's a great university. You're not paying me to say this, which is why I emphasize, because I like it. I only talk about stuff that I like. I can't be bought, except by Autodesk. I will take your money. I will. I will, Neil. You know me.

Neal Shasore: this happen every episode? A shout out to all the guests. Yeah,

Stephen Drew: becoming a

Neal Shasore: but they're not calling.

Stephen Drew: It's one of them jokes, which is part truth, part joke, and and when that day I get that all this money, I'm going to edit them all out and it's going to be none the wiser and I don't care who knows it, but the LSA in the short term [00:40:00] is amazing.

You need to check out this stuff. I implore you invest in yourself or get your practice on board with some cool stuff so that you can learn. Be better, make you practice more money, or you can get a better career too. It's an investment in yourself. It's not giving away something. If you get something back, that enriches your life. Okay.

Mini rant over. I need to make a fish finger butty or something cause I'm trying to diet. And then last night I was drinking loads and I was a bit hungover, but I really enjoyed this. Neil, you're an absolute amazing guest. Thank you so much. And to you in the audience that tunes in, thank you so much.

I got more content coming next week. I don't even know what it is right now because I'm too hungover, but I will check it out and I will post that stuff. So stick around for more content. All right, I'm going to end the live stream now. Neil, stay on the stage one second and we can wave goodbye to everyone.

Thank you for all the comments coming in. Oh, there's a big one

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