What does it take to move from case to case as a divorce attorney? Which systems are in place to manage client, judge, opposing counsel, and assorted other relationships on your case? What tools keep material organized and accessible?
The inner workings of a busy law firm might not be quite as dramatic as you see in the movies, but understanding what’s going on behind the scenes can help you work with your attorney and their team in a way that keeps your case moving smoothly toward resolution. This week on the show, we turn the tables. Pete Wright interviews family law attorney Seth Nelson on how he runs Nelson Koster Family Law.
It's all about time management
There is a stereotype out there that every minute of a busy firm is "billable." Seth sets that trope to rest. That doesn't mean strategic application of resources isn't key. When you sign on with a divorce attorney, you're signing on to the entire firm. With it comes team members with expertise in different areas of the practice. From administration and court relationships to special areas of the law, a good firm will ensure you're well represented.
Divorce takes more than the attorney
How many cases is your attorney working on? Moreover, what is their relationship to your local court system? Seth leans in on communication, the technology at work in the firm, and the absence of shelves full of law books in his office. Most important, how does the firm deal with emergencies and quick changes? By having smart response systems in place. You'll learn all about it this week on How to Split a Toaster
Chapters
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster
A Day in the Life
Starting the Day
Number of Cases
Court
Starting a New Case
Don't Be Selective
Communication
Technology
Changes
End of Day and After Hours
Love the Job
Listener Question
Closing Up
How does your divorce attorney work your case? Today on the show, let's dive into the day-to-day buckle shuffle of the firm with Seth Nelson.
Show Notes
What does it take to move from case to case as a divorce attorney? Which systems are in place to manage client, judge, opposing counsel, and assorted other relationships on your case? What tools keep material organized and accessible?
The inner workings of a busy law firm might not be quite as dramatic as you see in the movies, but understanding what’s going on behind the scenes can help you work with your attorney and their team in a way that keeps your case moving smoothly toward resolution. This week on the show, we turn the tables. Pete Wright interviews family law attorney Seth Nelson on how he runs Nelson Koster Family Law.
It's all about time management
There is a stereotype out there that every minute of a busy firm is "billable." Seth sets that trope to rest. That doesn't mean strategic application of resources isn't key. When you sign on with a divorce attorney, you're signing on to the entire firm. With it comes team members with expertise in different areas of the practice. From administration and court relationships to special areas of the law, a good firm will ensure you're well represented.
Divorce takes more than the attorney
How many cases is your attorney working on? Moreover, what is their relationship to your local court system? Seth leans in on communication, the technology at work in the firm, and the absence of shelves full of law books in his office. Most important, how does the firm deal with emergencies and quick changes? By having smart response systems in place. You'll learn all about it this week on How to Split a Toaster
Podcaster and co-host, Pete Wright brings years of marriage and a spirit of curiosity to the divorce process. He's spent the last two decades interviewing experts and thinkers in emotional healing and brings that with him to the law, divorce, and saving relationships in the process.
Host
Seth R. Nelson
Seth Nelson is the founding attorney and managing partner at NLG Divorce & Family Law. He is a Tampa-based family lawyer known for devising creative solutions to difficult problems.
Producer
Andy Nelson
Hailing from nearly 25 years in the world of film, television, and commercial production, Andy has always had a passion for storytelling, no matter the size of the package.
What is How to Split a Toaster: A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships?
Seth Nelson is a Tampa based family lawyer known for devising creative solutions to difficult problems. In How to Split a Toaster, Nelson and co-host Pete Wright take on the challenge of divorce with a central objective — saving your most important relationships with your family, your former spouse, and yourself.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to how to split a toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships from True Story FM. Today, what does your toaster eat for breakfast?
Pete Wright:
Welcome to the show, everybody. I'm Pete Wright, and I'm here with my good friend, Seth Nelson. Today on the show, let's dive into the day to day buckle shuffle of the firm. What does it take to move from case to case as a divorce attorney? What systems are in place to manage client, judge, opposing counsel, and all of the assorted other relationships to keep your material organized and efficiently accessible?
Pete Wright:
The inner workings of a busy firm might not be quite as dramatic as you've seen in the movies, but understanding what's going on behind the scenes can help you work with your attorney and their team in a way that keeps your case moving smoothly toward resolution. And the new voice of True Story FM, Seth Nelson. Hi, Seth.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. I like the little role reversal, man.
Pete Wright:
That was fun. That was nice. Feels good.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. A little different. Shake it up a little bit.
Pete Wright:
We're we're doing this day to day, this day in the life of, you, really, you. I'm less interested. I know we we need to talk about your, workout routine, but, honestly, I'm less interested in that than I am. What happens after you get to work? What does it look like for you to do the the work of an attorney?
Pete Wright:
And what can listeners learn by hearing your story that will help them better integrate into the process, to to move things along? What do you think?
Seth Nelson:
Well, for us, there's 2 things that are vitally important. 1 is obvious, the client.
Pete Wright:
Mhmm.
Seth Nelson:
Because we're here to serve the client. The question is, how do we best serve them when we're working as a team? Because it's not just me. You don't want just me doing all of your work because, one, it's terribly expensive. And, 2, there's some things that there's no reason you should pay me my hourly rate to do certain parts and aspects of what has to get done on your case.
Seth Nelson:
By way of example, in Florida, if you're getting divorced and you have children, you have to take what's called a parenting class. It's a government mandate. You have to take a class and you get a little certificate.
Pete Wright:
Do you teach that class and how long is the waiting list for me to get into it? I don't care. I don't need it, but I want you to teach
Seth Nelson:
me. I do not teach the class. I'm sure a lot of the stuff they say in that class, I tell my clients don't do it. But, like, but, but it's all about co parenting. It's about child.
Seth Nelson:
So so the thought process is is there some some clients find it very useful, they get little nuggets. Other clients are like, that was the biggest waste of time. But all that being said, you get this certificate, and you're required to file that certificate in the court file. You do not want me, at my rate, doing what is in essence an administrative
Pete Wright:
task.
Seth Nelson:
Right? There's no real legal thought to that. Now whenever you file something in the court file, it has to be signed by a lawyer. So I have my associate attorney and my legal assistants, or paralegals, handle that entire little aspect of your case. The, paralegal will let you know what length to go to, or when it's not COVID, sometimes you're required to go in person.
Seth Nelson:
Where you sign up, where you go to get us the certificate, they draft the notice of filing, they get it to via DocuSign to my associate attorney who signs it, reviews it, and signs it. And then my legal assistant, at the lowest hourly rate that we charge in the office, she uploads it to the court file. So on this one little document, we have the following things that all happened behind the scenes. There's communication with the client to let them know they're they're required to do it. There's the follow-up if we don't get it back timely.
Seth Nelson:
Then when we get it back, we have a legal assistant or paralegal draft the notice of filing. That goes to the lawyer to review and sign. It goes back to the legal assistant to upload it. Because the rule in our office is whoever's available to do the work that's qualified, at the lowest hourly rate, does the work. I could have done all those things, but it's gonna cost my client more money, and it's not gonna my expertise in quotes, my experience, my knowledge does not benefit my client in any way by my me doing any of those tasks.
Pete Wright:
Sure. Sure.
Seth Nelson:
So that is a whole internal system that we use with our team to get that done in the most efficient cost of cost efficient, manner.
Pete Wright:
Okay. So let's start with, with our Seth Nelson arrives at Nelson Coster 8 AM Monday morning, and he's ready to tackle the day. What is your what does it look like? What do you have sitting on your your, your menu for the day?
Seth Nelson:
In my office, I'm gonna have what we call in the program that we use, which is called NetDocs, which is a document management system, We have something called threads, and that's how we communicate with each other within the team.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
So I'm gonna make sure that I'm reviewing my threads, which can be anything from file the notice of filing parenting certificate. They just let me know. And I'll just read it. I'll think about it for a second, kinda internalize it. Don't charge my client for it.
Seth Nelson:
Got it. Boom. It's been done. Excellent. I'll pick that up later though.
Seth Nelson:
Like, in that file, I'll make sure it's done before we go to court on the hearing when it was supposed to be done. My thread might have drafted initial pleadings for divorce. Please review. You have a client meeting on Wednesday, and it's Monday. It's all ready for me to go.
Seth Nelson:
I can literally, from the thread, click on the document, open it, review it. I have everything I need to double check against what the client questionnaire was, and I might just review that document or a series of documents. And I can make my edits right on the document. I can make notes on threads on, hey, remember this, don't forget about that, try this. We're, you know, we wanna update our our our form because there's a better way to say this.
Seth Nelson:
I'm always trying to improve our work product, our written product, so I'll go through that. There might be emails that I go through.
Pete Wright:
Do all of those are all of those integrated or, like, does does your email flood straight into your threads with your documents or is that a separate process
Seth Nelson:
for you? Our our email is from we we don't email each other because that clogs our email. Email is for outside. So if we're talking to a client opposing counsel to the court system so, yeah, it everything integrates in one way or the other. And then depending on what's on my calendar, if I have a hearing, maybe I'm not looking at threads.
Seth Nelson:
I looked at them early in the morning before I got to the office or over the weekend. Maybe I'm just reviewing my case law and in in the legal arguments I'm gonna make in court. Maybe I have a client conference to talk about going through a parenting plan, and let's draft it that's specific for you. Okay.
Pete Wright:
How many and I and I don't wanna get too mired in the overall workload, but I do think it's important to set perspective. How many cases do you have at any sort of stage of the process at any given time? And both I I know that's like, your firm, as a midsize firm, there are a lot of people who are working on cases at any any specific place. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're all burdened with the same the same load. What are you what are you working on at any given time?
Seth Nelson:
Oh, that's a great question. So you can't just go by the number of cases. Because some cases, it's I think there's this saying, I think it's in, like, the production and and movies and stuff. Like, you know, you guys are always those guys are always unemployed. Right?
Seth Nelson:
Like, they do a gig and then they're an actor does a gig and then they're out. Yeah. Right. Right. Like, it's not like steady employment.
Seth Nelson:
Right? But they say it's in various stages of development. Right? You might be talking about a movie you might wanna do. You might be working with a writer trying to pitch it.
Seth Nelson:
There's all this stuff. It's the same with cases. They're in various stages of development or of the divorce process. Right? Some might be where someone hires me because they have this security that, hey, they hired me.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I have a lawyer. But they're
Seth Nelson:
really not ready. Yeah. Right. But they're not ready to move forward yet. Or maybe they hired me, and we're just talking about a parenting plan, and we're you know, there's nothing filed in the court yet.
Seth Nelson:
We're gonna try and settle your case before we ever file, so there's no real deadlines. They're all just agreed upon deadlines. There's nothing bad happens in court because we're not in court if you break them. Right? Some, we might have filed in court, but there's no kids, and we're in the 30 days or 45 days that we are gathering documents and exchanging documents.
Seth Nelson:
I'll check-in with my client just to see how they're doing, but my paralegal is the one working with them to get all the documents and do the heavy lifting and make sure we have them all. Then she'll put them together, reviewed by my associate attorney, and it all gets put together in a package. So when it comes to me, the information is where I want it, how I want it, and then I review it.
Pete Wright:
In a way that you can digest quickly and and easily and
Seth Nelson:
Very quickly. And that's all based upon the systems. So in those first couple cases, if you're very early, there might not be a lot going on for me to review, but there's a lot of work that my team is doing.
Pete Wright:
I I imagine I mean, how do you how do you do you structure that in your head? Like, is it a typical sort of Bell distribution where you have cases that are early, cases that are wrapping up, and then your activity is right down the middle on the the kinda heavy middle litigation stuff?
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. My it's not really like a bell. It's also what other other fires are coming up. Right? If there's something with kids and something happens and my phone's blowing up, if there's an emergency hearing, a parent got on a plane and took the kid out of the jurisdiction and I gotta get the kid back, God forbid, if there's something bad that happens to a kid, you know, all the stuff we've talked about on the toaster, alcohol, addiction, substance abuse addiction, you know, anything bad, like, immediately comes.
Seth Nelson:
Right? If the other side files an emergency motion
Pete Wright:
You have to respond.
Seth Nelson:
I gotta respond. And I'm sitting here working on emails and trying to, like, quarterback the case and say, hey, I need you to do this. I need legal research done on that. All of a sudden, I'm in the middle of drafting a document for one case, an emergency motion comes on the other. I stop my clock on case 1.
Seth Nelson:
We're working on case 2.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Because that judge is gonna make some sort of decision in the next 24 hours at the most, and I'm gonna try and have a response so at least I can have my 2¢ before the judge makes an initial determination. It might not be the final determination, but it can impact people's lives, and it can impact them pretty dramatically, pretty quickly. So we have our system set up where anything that gets filed in the court system goes straight to an email that everybody gets to review. So no one's gonna miss that. Everyone's gonna be like emergency motion.
Seth Nelson:
Stop the presses. What's going on here?
Pete Wright:
Sure. Sure. How many days in any given week are you actually in recognizing the complications of COVID court?
Seth Nelson:
Depends on the week. I can be in court 5 days a week on little hearings. Maybe they're called case management where the judge just wants a update on the status on how is the case proceeding. There could be motions for contempt and enforcement. There could be motions for temporary relief where that's a an hour or 2, but the court's making decisions on how parenting's gonna happen during the course of the case, What is the alimony gonna be during the course of the case?
Seth Nelson:
What is the child support gonna be during the course of the case? Just on temporary basis till you can get to the end. I might have emergency motions that pop up, and then I'm in court in and out, might be scheduled over a lunch hour because the judge is fitting you in. So depending on the complexity of the hearing, either I'm gonna cover that or my associate attorneys are gonna cover it, and it just ebbs and flows. I could be in a 2 day trial, 3 day trial, a one day trial, and, I could turn around and have a back to back trial.
Pete Wright:
Well, you you said the thing that I I I think gets to what my concern would be if I'm coming to you as a potential client that you, Seth Nelson, are a busy guy and you're in trial a lot and you're an experienced and sought after attorney, and what happens to my needs? But, you know, it sounds like the real solution is, yeah, you're the expert who needs to be in court, and there are other experts on your team that are available to me. Is that like, as I'm looking for my legal team, to help me with my divorce. It feels like that's a thing that should be important to me.
Seth Nelson:
It should be. And let's just be clear, because under the Florida Bar rules, some of the people on my team are can be qualified as experts in the law and some cannot. And the bar is very particular about whether you say you're an expert or not. But putting all that aside, in the very first conversation that I have with a potential client, I talk about you're hiring a legal team. And they have my cell number, and I tell them they can call my cell 247365.
Seth Nelson:
And I'm not joking. They can call me anytime, any day, day or night. I don't promise I'm gonna answer, but you can call.
Pete Wright:
Alright? Right.
Seth Nelson:
And I will do my best to call you back. Now, I also let them know they're hiring a team, and we explain to them who in the office they need to talk to about certain issues that are involved in all of your cases. If you want to talk about scheduling, you're gonna talk to Ken, our scheduler. If you wanna get on my calendar to talk to me, there's a big button that says make an appointment on our website. You can get on my calendar.
Seth Nelson:
And if you can't get on in a time frame that's sufficient to you, you get a hold of Ken, and Ken comes to me and says, hey, I got a client really needs to talk to you. And I'll be like, okay, schedule tonight after hours. Does that work for them? So that's the main thing is can you get to your lawyer? And the second part is, can the work be done in a timely fashion?
Seth Nelson:
That's why we have a team.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. That's why I have a team. So how does that apply to court or to trial or or case matter? Because we've talked a lot about all of the all of the stuff that you as a team have to go through and digest and internalize and build a case out of. And often when we talk, you know, after hours on weekends, I catch you in the office and you'll turn the camera around, and there's dozens of file boxes filled with documents that need to be somehow highlighted and reviewed.
Pete Wright:
In my head, it's a montage, and there's very dramatic music and highlighter pens. Oh,
Seth Nelson:
all the time when I'm in court and I have the, like, smoking gun document and I lay it out there, in my head, it goes dun dun dun. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
You can't handle the truth. You can't handle the truth. I'm I'm curious how that process works. Like, once I hire you and all kinds of goodies about my life start flooding into your into your office, how do you ingest me into the system? First off,
Seth Nelson:
at some levels, I am all about information management systems because I'm managing so much information on your one case. Now the good news is we have an outline. It's called the statute. So when you call me, I'm gonna take my notes about our conversation and the advice and counsel that I give you. And then, anything that is really important that I'm thinking, I'm gonna want this at trial, or I'm gonna want this at a hearing, or I need to do some more work to get more information on this issue, I put it into our case outline, which is the statute.
Seth Nelson:
So let's just do a hypothetical. You call me, and you're talking about how it was your kid's birthday. And you're going through a divorce, and your wife scheduled a birthday party, didn't talk to you about it. And it is a time that actually it was, like, a great day for it because it was a Friday where the kids were off school, and you had already previously scheduled a doctor's appointment. So you can't make it.
Seth Nelson:
Right? She didn't talk to you about it, so what I'm gonna do is talk to you about how to handle that. Hey, Pete, I get it. Can you reschedule your doctor's appointment? The invitations have already gone out.
Seth Nelson:
Let's talk about how we wanna focus on the kid. The kid's excited about the birthday party. Talking to a kid about rescheduling is worse than you not being there if you can't be there and you can do something else special. Like, we're gonna talk through the practical aspects of that. Right?
Seth Nelson:
But I'm also gonna talk about in my notes, because I'm gonna wanna bring this issue up at trial under a, the demonstrated capacity and disposition of each parent to facilitate and encourage a close and continuing parent child relationship with the other parent.
Pete Wright:
Now that was you were just reading from a statue. That was from your outline statute. Right?
Seth Nelson:
That's right. Right from my outline statute. The demonstrated capacity and disposition of each parent to facilitate, encourage a close and continuing parent child relationship with the other parent. And I'm gonna bring up the fact that your wife didn't do that because she purposely scheduled a party without talking to you. So how does that encourage a close and meaningful relationship with you and the child when you can't make the birthday party?
Pete Wright:
Of course.
Seth Nelson:
So that's a nugget. That's one little bit of information that now I'm gonna put in here. And I'm gonna also add that to communication. Judge, we're gonna ask that we communicate through a parenting app because then we're gonna have to come back, judge, later and say, look, she doesn't communicate. She's supposed to go through the app.
Seth Nelson:
It's not there. Hey. Thinking about planning a birthday party. So that same fact might come up in more than one way in your case on what I'm asking for. And that's how you don't lose track of these things that are really important.
Pete Wright:
In the same I wanna go back to the 40 file boxes though, because you I mean, at what point are you actually going through that yourself, highlighting it? Do you have are there other people on your legal team that are building those those documents or scanning them into your systems? I'm I'm kind of interested in the technical part there.
Seth Nelson:
Sure. There's a lot of technical parts to it. In this case, I happen to have 40 boxes of paper document.
Pete Wright:
Sure.
Seth Nelson:
So we will either it's a complex case. So a lot of that discovery, I'm gonna go through and determine what we need to produce and what we don't. Because my client just gave me everything.
Pete Wright:
And you don't need to ingest all of it. You can make some choices.
Seth Nelson:
Right. I'm gonna go through it all, but, yes, I'm gonna look at every page, every word and go through. But when you've done it as long as I have, you get the flavor of this stuff. Once I decide what we really need, it all gets scanned. It all gets Bates numbered, so every page is gonna have a number that we can then refer to.
Pete Wright:
That's unique across the entire case.
Seth Nelson:
Yes. Okay. And then we produce all that and I get in this case, all those documents are gonna go to my expert, and we're gonna work together on what little nuggets we have in there. A lot of those documents, they've asked for them. They're entitled to them.
Seth Nelson:
We're gonna produce them. The far majority of those documents are not going to be used at trial, are not gonna be used in a deposition, are not gonna be ever used again in the case because the other side doesn't know what's there. And they had a very broad request that was reasonable and under the rules, I'm gonna produce it all, but we're gonna go back and pick out exactly what's important out of these thousands of pages. Because part of information management, if you have 40 boxes of documents, thousands and thousands of pages, but you've only got 2 days of trial, you're not getting thousands of thousands of pages into evidence. There's just not enough time, and it's not relevant, and it's repetitive, and you don't need it to prove your case.
Pete Wright:
Okay. That's actually, it's rings is important to me. And, again, from the the perspective of somebody who is looking to hire you,
Seth Nelson:
do you encourage, at any point, me to
Pete Wright:
be selective in what I give you? No. Give you everything. I don't want you playing lawyer.
Seth Nelson:
Give me everything.
Pete Wright:
K.
Seth Nelson:
Give me everything because inevitably, you'll say, oh, I didn't know that was important.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I'm sure I would say that.
Seth Nelson:
I thought it wasn't important. And you don't know chapter 6113, a through t, the parenting factors. You don't know the alimony factors. You don't know how these relate to another. You certainly know the information.
Seth Nelson:
You certainly know how it impacts your life in the real world. You just don't necessarily know nor should know, how it impacts your life in the legal world, in the case, in the theme that we're trying to produce and put forward. So, yeah, I want it all, and I'll be the guy to decide. And it's it's not like I'm just gonna do a baseball analogy. You know that your pitcher has 5 pitches that he can throw.
Seth Nelson:
The catcher can ask for anyone that he wants, but ultimately, the pitcher makes the decision. Right? So you're the catcher in this situation and you're just saying, I want this. You're you're saying, give me the ball. Give me the ball.
Seth Nelson:
I want a fastball. I want a curveball next. I want a slider next. Right? And ultimately, the pitcher's like, no.
Seth Nelson:
I'm just gonna give you a fastball. Right? So I want you to give me all that information. Tell me just give it give it give it to me, and I'll do all the analysis. Right?
Seth Nelson:
And then you do start learning on what's not relevant because I'll tell you, this category of information is not relevant to your case.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
But until we have those conversations, give
Pete Wright:
it all to me. When you you said you produce documents for opposing counsel when they they need to see documents, When you produce them, are you sending them electronically, or do you put them on, like, a luggage carrier and print them all out like they do in,
Seth Nelson:
in the movies and have the U Haul. Movies. I I
Pete Wright:
need to align my expectations.
Seth Nelson:
It's all electronic.
Pete Wright:
Everything's electronic now.
Seth Nelson:
Yes. In fact, I am so cautious about attorney client privilege that we have everything in our one system. And then when we are producing documents, we take the documents we're producing, we pull them out of our system, and then put them on a folder, and then we upload them to Dropbox. So it's an entirely different system. I have Dropbox for one reason only, and that is to produce documents to the other side.
Seth Nelson:
So we don't inadvertently
Pete Wright:
You don't commingle systems at all.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly. You keep them separate. Because I have gotten links from other lawyers and immediately called them and said, please withdraw your link. You just gave me access to your entire file. And I am ethically obligated to do that in in in the moment.
Seth Nelson:
And I've gotten emails that were directed to their client. And they accidentally cc'd me because the email before they were sending to me. So I immediately respond and say, I believe this was intended for your client. Right when I saw dear client's name, I stopped reading. I've deleted it from my system because this is what I'm required to do under the bar rules.
Seth Nelson:
Right? So I keep them separate.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
And you're a tech guy, so there's a lot of technology we use.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. And I I'm I'm actually, I'm as a just sort of a high level question, what what are the for you personally, what are the tools that you count on day to day to use, to to get your job done? Obviously, you have your your knowledge management system.
Seth Nelson:
We have our case management system.
Pete Wright:
Case management system.
Seth Nelson:
We use Office 365. So no matter where I am in the world, I can get to our documents if I have an Internet connection.
Pete Wright:
Everything's just kinda stored, all your, like, firm documents or OneDrive, that kind of thing?
Seth Nelson:
Everything is in the cloud on one document management system or one system or another. And I'm really particular about technology. There is not a case management system that I think does it all well. I want the best for my clients. So if that means I have 15 or 10 or 5 different technologies that I use because they do it best, then that's what I'm gonna use.
Seth Nelson:
So, for example, I use DocuSign for one thing, signing documents.
Pete Wright:
Even though DocuSign does a lot of stuff.
Seth Nelson:
Does a lot of stuff, but they're really good at signing documents, and they're really good at having the forms that we need to prove to the court that they were signed at this IP address and all of that jazz. That's why I use them. And they'll try to sell me on, oh, we can manage your documents and do these flat nope. Not interested. I want you to do signing my documents.
Seth Nelson:
Right? Outlook is really good at email and really good at calendaring. Okay. That's what I use Outlook for. Okay?
Seth Nelson:
Okay. I don't use Outlook for the task or to do function. Sometimes I'll put on my calendar, I'll block time that will say work on these files, because I will block time. What my dad used to say when I was in high school and college, ass in chair, head over book, get your work done. Right?
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. It's pretty easy in my practice to never have time to have ass in chair head over book. I shut my door Production, that means unless it's an emergency, I am working on a client's case. I need to focus for an hour or 2. Whatever you have can wait.
Pete Wright:
I think that who was that? Was it Edgar Allen Poe who said the hardest thing about being a writer is the application of ass to chair? That that I think is I I can totally see that. That's why you
Seth Nelson:
see me on the weekend sometimes when we chat because it's quiet. Yeah. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
That that kind of leads to my last question, which was around, around technology in the firm. You've been an attorney for a long time. How has your office technology and technology in the legal space changed? Do you I mean, it seems like you have some new expectations. You just dropped IP address on me, and and I that is a surprise coming from you, a little bit.
Pete Wright:
It shouldn't be coming from you, but coming from the law.
Seth Nelson:
Right. Most lawyers aren't talking about this stuff.
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
Right. I mean, I had an account once that said to me, Seth, you're really good with numbers. And it was like the best compliment. And then she said, or a lawyer. And that's kind of what you're saying.
Seth Nelson:
You're really good with technology or a lawyer. You know what I mean? So let's just start with legal research. When I started legal research in law school over 20 years ago, you went to the library and you pulled the books.
Pete Wright:
That was right. That's what I imagine. Like, I look at your office and I see a couple of binders. I don't see volumes of leather bound books.
Seth Nelson:
No. No. And the only reason you see binders is because I'm still a little bit of old school where there's certain documents in a case that I wanna have printed ready for me to go, and that is my system on how I can review stuff. So I'll get it in threads, and threads might say, binder updated on your credenza. And that's what you see back there.
Seth Nelson:
And I can because it's where it needs to be in the fashion it needs to be in the place it needs to be. I can get to it. I can get to it quickly and be efficient. That saves my clients money. So now, legal research used to have to go to the library and pull the books, make photocopies.
Seth Nelson:
And then that case that you're reading would cite to another case, and then you'd have to go pull that book and make a copy. And there's all these different things you have to now you get online and you have your subscription, we have Westlaw, and you click on the case. And it cites to another case, and it's a hyperlink. You click on that.
Pete Wright:
Oh, man. You're, like, breaking all of my, assumptions about law movies. Like, the the photocopier was central to, a central plot device in many of the legal movies.
Seth Nelson:
Oh, yeah. In the firm where the fax comes in and it gets rolled and goes underneath? Yeah. Alright. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
No. That doesn't happen. I'm sorry.
Pete Wright:
No more faxes. We don't have a fax machine. Machine. We don't even have a fax machine. Oh, right.
Pete Wright:
Uh-uh. Okay. Well, what so you're at the end of your day, and you wrap it up, and you're feeling good about things. Is that just kind of it? Are you at 20 like you say, people are calling you 247.
Pete Wright:
Are you a 247 guy? When do you, when do you recuperate?
Seth Nelson:
I will block time. As you know, I, like to exercise. So I don't answer my phone when I'm on my run or I'm on my swim or if I'm on the bike or if I'm lifting weights with my son. So, sometimes lifting weights, I'll check only because we're kinda if, like, there's an emergency, something coming in I'm waiting for. So I do that.
Seth Nelson:
I'm very good about checking my phone every night and seeing if there's any calls I have missed or I need to return. And, I get up in the morning and have my routines. But no, I'm a divorce does not happen from 9 to 5, so I will make myself available. Now you also have to set boundaries. I a client had something pop up this weekend, and I said, I will do my best to get back to you by 4 o'clock.
Seth Nelson:
It was on a Sunday, and they were very anxious, rightfully so, about what was happening. And can you get to me earlier? And I said, I will do my best. I'm actually at the hospital with my father. So I'm you know, and and I'll open up a little bit about, hey.
Seth Nelson:
Sure. You know, I'm not sitting here at the beach having a Heineken, though that sounds really good right now on a you know? But, if I can make myself available in in I always find that if you can just get to it and do it and be done, and I learned this from my girlfriend's dad, his phone will ring and it'll be an unknown number, and he answers it. And for the longest time, I'd laugh. I'm like, why are you answering that?
Seth Nelson:
And he says, because I'm gonna deal with it right away. It might be a call, but they're not leaving a message that I have to check with later. And I've taken that philosophy. If I can deal with it right away, I can. Sometimes I'm delayed, sometimes I'm in court.
Seth Nelson:
You know, I'll I'll do my best. I'm not perfect at it, but it it's, it's really important to get back to people.
Pete Wright:
Do you love your job?
Seth Nelson:
I do. There's different aspects of my job that I truly enjoy. One is just helping people, and I want to help more people. But my time, like all of our time, is limited. So one way I help people is that I grow the firm and I get to mentor newer lawyers.
Seth Nelson:
And when we mentor them and train them and teach them to do it the way that we think is a high level of service and practice and great work product, ultimately, will help more people because more people will be here helping more people. I love building a team, and I'll put my team up against anybody's on how we work together. And we didn't even really talk about that much because some firms are client first, which I get that mentality. At some levels, my team is first because if my team isn't clicking, I can't help the client. Sure.
Seth Nelson:
So you've got to make sure that you've got a great team and that that your culture is what you want it to be. And there's and look, I can give someone my playbook. I can give someone my policies and procedures. I can give them how we move a case from a to z and through the system. I can hand it to you.
Seth Nelson:
If you can't recreate the culture, it's not gonna help you. And there's no small part in any play. There's no small role at at our firm. The receptionist, at some levels, is the most important job. Because if that receptionist answers the phone, what do you want?
Seth Nelson:
That's not gonna go well Yeah. Right. With that potential client. Right? But when they can have empathy, but set boundaries, understand that they're not the lawyer, they can't answer all the questions that this client has because they actually got someone on the phone and not a voice mail, like and then get them to a lawyer quickly.
Seth Nelson:
And in our office, we get compliments from our clients about our team members, and when we do, we stop what we're doing, we get everyone together, and we say, I just wanna let Ken know we just got a great compliment from a client who is totally stressed out and had never used Zoom for before, and she's 65 years old and helped her through it. And that was her first time ever on court. Great job. You know, so the there's a lot of that that we work on and it's really meaningful and it positively impacts the clients when you've got a good team that that has everybody's back.
Pete Wright:
Well, you know, if we've learned anything from the airlines, Seth, it's, you always put your mask on before you put on the mask of your child.
Seth Nelson:
There you go.
Pete Wright:
Who knew? Who knew we'd be able to bring it back? And I have a little bit of real time follow-up. It is, turns out writing is the art of applying the ass to the seat. I don't know how I could possibly have credit that to Poe when it's Dorothy Parker.
Pete Wright:
So my apologies.
Seth Nelson:
There you go. The Dorothy. Yeah. Are you apologizing to Poe or to Dorothy Parker?
Pete Wright:
In the spirit of all this, Seth, after your your day in the life, we do have a listener question. And, I'm wondering if we can take this one on together and and sort of unravel it, in this context. It comes from listener d. The question is, what is your experience with abusers who are also gaslighters? We're trying to get through our divorce, and it's been taking forever because my wife has been emotionally abusing me, but has convinced everyone I'm the abusive one.
Pete Wright:
Because I'm the male in the relationship, it seems like there's always more scrutiny, fear, and doubt about everything I say or do. Any experience with this, and what can I do to keep things moving faster?
Seth Nelson:
Great question. This is a typical question that I get in the day in the life. This could be a potential client calling. They're saying that it's taking longer. So I'm making an assumption, which I would check with them.
Seth Nelson:
Are you currently in litigation? Where is your case procedurally in the court system? That's one question. And if it's taking a long time and how you know, what can I do to keep this moving faster? That's a procedural question.
Seth Nelson:
Where are you? Have you given your documents? Have you gone to mediation? Is it set for trial? Is it stalled?
Seth Nelson:
No one's moving it forward. Right? So I would kind of ask questions about that. Look it up on the public records in the court docket to see what's happening. Okay?
Seth Nelson:
The other question is really interesting and happens a lot when they when this listener is writing in and telling me that everyone thinks I'm the abuser. My question is, who is everyone? And do I care what they think? Ultimately, I care what one person thinks, and that's the judge. So we're not trying your case in the media.
Seth Nelson:
We're not trying your case to your friends. None of those people are decision makers. The decision maker is the judge. I care about what potential witnesses may or may not say in court, so I'm gonna get a list of these people, and we're gonna talk it through. What do you believe they're gonna say?
Seth Nelson:
What have they said to you? But none of those people can slow this system down. You gotta get lawyers that are gonna move it forward. You gotta push your case forward with your lawyer. You have to understand the constraints of the law.
Seth Nelson:
Judges in Hillsborough County have 800 cases. That's one judge. I've got a 160 with 4 lawyers. Right? Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Now Right.
Pete Wright:
So I think Perspective is everything.
Seth Nelson:
It is everything. But experience with abusers who are gaslighters, we deal with people like this every day. And what we do is we work with our clients because I can't talk to the gaslighter. I can't talk to the abuser. They have their lawyer.
Seth Nelson:
What I do is work with my clients on how we respond. Because the way we've been responding before you hired me, the way you've been responding, obviously isn't working. So let's change our behaviors. The phone that we all have is there for our own convenience, not to have an abuser and a gaslighter blow us up.
Pete Wright:
Okay. I I, the perspective listen. The the the opinion that matters is the judge. I honestly you before you said that, I don't know who I would have picked for the one opinion that matters. I should have learned by now.
Pete Wright:
It's the judge. You guys, it's always the judge. Yeah. Thanks, Seth. Any any other highlights we need to make sure we cover before we close a book on today?
Seth Nelson:
No. I was just about to say, like, this is not the, like, funniest and sexiest show that we ever put on, but it's, at some levels, the most important. Because if you don't have a team behind you, that's helping you on this stuff, it's hard enough going through divorce and talking to lawyers and being, like, never being in a courtroom and having a third party make decisions that are vitally important to you about your kids and your money. There's just a lot going on. And I think we've talked about it, Pete.
Seth Nelson:
In your initial conversation with a potential lawyer, how do you handle your cases? How do I get a hold of you? Who does the work? These are all the questions you should be asking. And, you know, some lawyers will say, look, I'm a small firm, it's just me.
Seth Nelson:
I'll always know where you are in your case, because you're just dealing with me the whole time. There are some positives to that. But then the question is, well, are you billing me to do uploading on the parenting plan certificate, or is there a different rate for that? Right? So there's not one size fits all.
Seth Nelson:
You have to make the decision what's best for you and whether it's a good attorney client relationship. But what you don't wanna do is get to the end and maybe not have it come out the way you anticipated and think maybe I should've hired that other guy.
Pete Wright:
Good tips. Good walk through. Thanks, Seth. Appreciate you, appreciate you doing that for everybody, and thank you everybody for downloading and listening. Hope you learned a little something.
Pete Wright:
Hope that helps you frame your own relationship with your team of legal professionals in your divorce process. On behalf of, America's favorite divorce attorney, Seth Nelson, I'm Pete Wright. We'll catch you next week right here on how to split a toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships.
Outro:
Seth Nelson is an attorney with Nelson Coster Family Law and Mediation with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, how to split a toaster is not intended to nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of Nelson Coster.
