Deborah: The Only Female Judge of Israel

Show Notes

Episode 486: 
In this episode, we jump into the story of Deborah, the only female judge of Israel, found in Judges chapter 4. Jeff and Chris recount the narrative, highlighting Deborah's leadership, wisdom, and the dramatic victory over Sisera, which involved the cunning actions of another woman, Jael. We emphasize Deborah's unique role as a mediator, advisor, and prophetess, and discuss the significance of her 40-year tenure as a judge.

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You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in practical ways. Hey, good morning, everybody. Weird morning, guys, or good afternoon or good evening, depending onizing. Good night, and we're off. That's all we have time for. There we go. Hey, I was just gonna say, uh, we're excited because this is this kicks off a brand new week. We're still in the Book of Judges in the middle of this. Uh, well not quite the middle yet, but we're in a series called Milestones of the Old Testament. That's right, or highlights highlights or we still haven't named it. No, not really, we're just hitting the. It's like the important big stories, our. Favorite stories, our. Favorite stories, Jeff and Chris's favorite stories in the Old Testament. There you go, there, whatever it is, but it's fun. Well, it's really cool. And when you're in. The Judges, it's action all the time, Yes, all the time. Action. So if you missed last week, jump in maybe one of the grossest stories in the Bible we talked about last week with Ehud and a bunch of other fun ones. So yeah, really great. Well, Jeff today Desiree held back nothing. She didn't pull any punches. She's kicking off a Monday with a stump the past. Start the week off with a tough one. Yes. Yes, and this question I read ahead. This question might be, you know, one of the hardest things to deal with in all of theology. Never mind that it's eight in the morning. We just got up and we'll kind of bed. Yeah. Okay, So here's what Nathan R. Says. And by the way, thank you Nathan are for writing. Hi Nathan. He writes, why should we pray if everything ultimately comes down to God's will? Why should we pray if everything ultimately comes down to God's will? Great question, Well I read. It, so therefore your respond. Oh no, Well I'm going to say, not everything comes down to God's will? And what do you mean by that? Because that sounds like blasphemy. Jesus taught us to pray your Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven, meaning sometimes God's will it's not done on earth as it is in heaven. Right. But but the heart of this question is if we're always praying God's will, then why should we put effort behind me? I think what he's saying is everything's ultimately comes down to God's will. Means everything's already predetermined God decided. You think I didn't read it that way. Yeah, you know what I read it as? I read it as God's going to do what he wants to do. Yeah, sort of like why pray any other thing if if the only thing that we should ever pray is God. I don't know your will, but whatever it is, that's what I pray for. Yeah, right, so it's like, well, that's legit, but I just don't know that. That's what I think his question is interesting. Yeah, So so so here here's let me. Let me take my angle and then you can take your angle. My angle as I read it is God's just going to do God's going to do. It all comes down to God's will, right, So everything that happens, God's already decided. He wanted that to happen. That's what he wanted to happen. So that's why you answered the way God's will. Right, So you quite understand your answer, but now I do. Yeah, And so Jesus taught us to pray your will be done on earth as it is in heaven because God's will is not always done right right, and what God wants and what God gets are often two different things. It's spiritual. Warfare is real. The Bible wouldn't use warfare kind of language to talk about the battles between good and evil if there weren't actual casualties, if there weren't wins and losses. Now, I read the back of the book, Jesus wins, but between here and there he wins the war. But between here and there, there's a lot of battles that get lost. There's a lot of there's you know, martyrs, and there's all kinds of bad things that happen. Evil happens in the world. The Bible mentions multiple times that God was grieved. If it was God's plan, God wouldn't be grieved. God to'd be like, my plans come in together, right. So God is grieved on these things. This is why he invites this into the battle. I think that so many Christians are kind of sleeping with this mentality of well, God's just going to do what God's going to do. As a post understanding. God invited us into the battle to move the needle in his direction. Yeah, and so I think that's it's it's very significant to think of it that way. So that's how I was viewing it. Was he was asking, if God ultimately decides everything anyways, why do we pray? Yeah, So if I could try to distinguish the two in my words, I would say, you were sort of receiving it from like God being in control. Kind of perspective everything. Yeah, And I was receiving it from I want to be a good Christian, and I from from from the Christian's perspective only, which is, okay, what should I pray? And uh it seems pretty futile to even get on my knees and try to think of anything else. If all I ever should ever pray is just say, okay, God, you will be done the end. Therefore, why should we pray? Which is how it reads. Why should we pray if everything ultimately comes out? Which is interesting it kind of it kind of works both ways. So uh So now from that perspective, I would say that's a harder question for me, because I mean the way you responded, I'm like, yeah, absolutely, you know, because we live in a broken world and God's not going to force his will and you know, predetermine all that stuff that. That's uh, that for me is it's easier to wrap my head around. It seems more complex. It almost seems like you're saying I gave a better answers. I'm saying you answered an easier question. That's what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is is like it's like. And by the way, I have thought about this, and I have had discussions about this where people have said, why do we even have to pray? You know, like in other words, like if God's gonna, if God wants, uh, you know, the one perfect thing in any situation, you know what difference does prayer make? And then you know where you respond with the fact that the Bible tells us that prayer makes a difference, that you know, if a bunch of all his people get together and pray and plead. There's been demonstration and before in the Bible where God has been persuaded by the hearts of people. Right, God even. Yeah, we we just read about Moses a couple of weeks ago where Moses comes in and begs God that we didn't read about it. I referenced it, okay, and God, God, Moses begs God, don't wipe out your people. What what are all the other peoples around going to say that you just brought us out here to kill us in the desert. And the Bible said God repented of the evil he thought to do against the people. Of is room. Okay, repent means change. He changed his mind, right right? Yeah? And then and then even Jesus told us the story right about the knocking. Remember, and he says, the kingdom of Heaven is like this, and he said, you know, and the guy says. No, go away, go away. And he says, but because of his shameless audacity, he'll get up and he'll give him bread and. Answer the door. He said, in the same way, pray this way. So I believe that God does have a will, and sometimes his will is elusive. But really I've always thought this. I've always thought it's I think it's less about knowing his will and it's more about surrendering ours. Yeah. I also think that God has different levels to his will, And I think Romans chapter twelve hints at that. Romans twelfth two hints at the idea that there's God has a perfect will, a good will, and an acceptable will. Right, So there's the perfect way to get their straight linear line. There's the zigzag and then there's the bouncing off the walls. But God's going to get you there kind of a thing, right, And I think that it's not as fatalistic as just going God's going to do what God wants to do, right right, That God is actually interacting with humanity. I also think that most of what happens in life is naturalistic. It's God's already set up here laws of nature. Gravity. God doesn't have to if I step off the top of building. God doesn't have to determine next what's going to happen, right right, He's already decided gravity happens, you're going to hit the ground. And so a lot of things that happen in life isn't that God decided that was going to happen in that moment, but rather God set up the laws of nature so that if this happens, then this is going to happen. And so God gets blamed for a lot of things I think he doesn't do as well. So I think most of life is natural. And then when we ask God to intervene, we're asking him to do something super natural. So when God chooses to step in and do a thing. It's a miracle. But I don't think that every single thing that happens in life is an active decision to do a miracle in that moment. But rather God set up the laws of nature so that things would happen normally and naturally, and then when we pray for God to intervene, sometimes he steps in and does something supernatural outside of the natural. Right, those are great thoughts. That's a great, great, great question, Nathan. Yes, man, you nailed it. Yes, good question. Woke us up this morning. Yeah, we're in mode now. Here we are, We're ready to go. Do you have anything else to add? No, I think I think those are I think it's just a great thought. I think that we hit it from both perspectives. So however he meant it is hopefully covered. Right. I think you meant it my way. But yeah, whatever, of course you do. Of course. So, hey, we're talking about a lady judge. This is the first only this is Deborah is of all of the judges God uses, Deborah's the only female judge. Yeah, right, and so this is kind of a she's wicked awesome. Yes, So it says after e HUD's death. Oh, this is Judges. Chapter four, Verse one, by the way, says, after e HUD's death, there is lights again did evil. In the Lord's sight? There's a theme my shocked face. So the Lord turned them over to King Jabin of Hazor, a Canaanite king. The commander of his army was Cisara, who lived in Haro shethith Haro cheth Hagoiam. Does that look good to you? Haar cheth Hegoiam. Cisra had nine hundred iron chariots ruthly oppressed the Israelites for twenty years. Then the people of Israel cried out to the Lord for help. Good job, guys, it took you twenty years to think of the Lord. Deborah, the wife of Lapidov, was a prophet who was judging Israel at that time. She would sit under the Palm of Deborah between Rama and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites would go to her for judgment. One day she sent for Barak, son of a Banoim who lived in Kidish in the land of Naphtalai. Dude, there are a lot of weird words in this what that's why you read? Hey four hundred and fifty episodes ago, I said, you read because. I don't feel like tackling all that. She said to him, this is what the Lord, the God of Israel, commands. You call out ten thousand warriors from the tribe of tribes of Naphtalaie and Zebulun at Mount Tabor, and I will call out Sisra, commander of Jabon's army, along with his chariots and warriors, to the Kishon River. There I will give you victory over him. Barak told her, I will go, but only if you go with me. Very well, She replied, I will go with you, but you will receive no honor in this venture, for the Lord's victory over Siser will be at the hands of a woman. So Deborah went with Barak to Kadish. At Kadish, Barak called together the tribes of Zebulun and Naphtali, and ten thousand warriors went up with him. Deborah also went with him. Now Heber the Key Knight, a descendant of moses brother in law Hobab Man Alive, had moved away from the other members of his tribe and pitched his tent by the by the oak of Zaananim near Kadish. When Cicero was told that Barak, son of Abinowim, had gone up to Mount Tabor, he called for all nine hundred of his iron chariots and all of his warriors, and they marched from Harrishef Hagoyam to the Kishan River. Then Deborah said to Barack, get ready, this is the day the Lord will give you victory over Sisra, for the Lord is marching ahead of you. So Barak led his ten thousand warriors down the slopes of Mount Tabor into battle. When Barak attacked, the Lord throw Sisra and his chariots and warriors into a panic. Sister leaped down from his chariot and escaped on foot. And then Barack chased the chariots and the enemy army all the way to harrischeth Hagoyam, killing all of Sister's warriors. Not a single one was left alive. Meanwhile, Sisa ran to the tent of Jail, the wife of Heber the Key Knight. Because Hebrew's family was on friendly terms with King Jab and a hazor. Jail went out to meet sister and said to him, come into my tent, sir, Come in, don't be afraid so he went into her tent and she covered him with a blanket. Please give me some water, he said, I'm thirsty, and so she gave him some milk from a leather bag and covered him again. Stand at the door of the tent. He told her, if anybody comes and asks you, if there's anyone here, say no. But when sister fell asleep from exhaustion, Dale quietly crept up to him with a hammer and a tent peg in her hand. Then she drove the tent pig through his temple into the ground, so he died. When Brock came looking for Sisra, Jail went out to meet him. She said, come and I'll show you the man you're looking for. So he followed her into the tent and found sister lying there dead with a tent peg through his temple. So on that day Israel saw God defeat Jabon, the Canaanite king, and from that time on Isra became stronger and stronger against King Jabin until they finally destroyed him. Wow, what right, dude, those were? That might have been the hardest read. Yes so far. Yeah, that was a man alive. Well, I'll tell you what this This story is one of the most graphic but different, different graphic than last week. Yeah, yeah, it was just gloss. I guess this is gross too, But I guess men who don't mind like war violence type stuff. So I remember my pastor, he called him jl. I know you called him jail jail, but jail or whatever however you pronounced his name. Okay, oh excuse me, yeah, her name, of course. But anyway, I remember him back in the eighties, talked about driving his head through a spike into the ground, and then he got on the ground and he ran in a circle like with his head in the middle. H So, so he's trying to get him run nail to the ground, which I'm. Sure didn't of course happen. But but I remember my youth aster doing that, you know, and you know, he had his head in the middle and he's running around a circle and everybody just started laughing, right exactly, well in the eighties, right, So anyway, I remember that visually, and I was just a high school student, and I remember thinking, like, wow, this is one of the. Coolest stories ever. But think about the wisdom of this woman who again, you know, I mean I'm sure that she was It doesn't say that she was a mother, but she had, of course, you know, motherly instincts. But I remember back then, even then, the youth pastor's wife speaking up and saying, isn't it interesting how she knew how to give him warm milk to put him to. Sleep, because that's what that's what grandma does. That's what grandma does, right right, some chocolate chip cookies and some more meal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so of course she was exhausted. But but you know, she did whatever she could. She was cunning. That's just a sign of her being wise, being cunning, being knowing exactly what she's going to do to play the part. You know, she's like, hey, don't know why sister has found my tent, don't know why this is meant to be, but I'm going to do my part. And sure enough, holy cow. Right, Yeah, there's a couple of really great things here. When Deborah tells Barack, which by the way, brock means peace, right, so it's kind of an interesting he's a general named piece. But when she tells Barack, yes, I'll go with you, but it's you're not going to get the glory from this victory. A woman is you think she's talking about herself, right, that's what you think happened. And she goes with him, and then what you find in this story, which is just fantastic, I think, is the autonomy of this this woman. So you tend to think back in those ancient days how oppressed women were and all these kinds of things. But even within the. Israelite worldview, the Jewish worldview, women were much more respected and autonomous. So her husband was an ally of Sisera and of that king what was the king's name, Jabin right, And Jale's like, yeah, I'm not voting for Jabin. Right, She's definitely. That's right, and so and so it's really great I think in the in the Jewish culture, in the Jewish mindset, as they would read their Bible, their Holy Book, they didn't even blink at the idea that this woman had this much autonomy. Right, she's the hero of the story. That's fantastic, and that's why it's shared there. So she winds up driving this tent peg through sister's head. You can imagine how pleased he was. I have an ally having no idea. He minimizes the strength and the autonomy of this woman, and he thinks, well, her husband's for me, so she said before me too, right, and she's got well, I have another thing for you. Right. It's interesting. They have a little map here in the Life Application Study Bible below, and it's interesting how they place. And I guess, I guess this would be true. I would have no way of knowing this before I look at this map. But but hero cheth Agoyam looks like it's right on the coast, just or just west of the Sea of Galilee, just just a little bit south, but just completely west on the coast. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's where that would have taken place. So when you were in Israel, did you see Mount Tabor? I know, I can remember we drove, we were going through and we came across the Kishon River there into that valley, and the one of the guides in historian that I was sitting up front talking to, he said, oh, hey, by the way, this is the this is the area right here is where you know JL killed Cicera. Really yeah, yeah, so it was kind of a kind of any thing. Yeah, it's two big hills. Well, there's several hills in the area, hills, and then this kind of this flat valley in the river just kind of winds. That's the thing about every trip to Israel. You can drive for two weeks and still not still one fifth of it. Oh yeah, and this happened here, and this happened here. It's NonStop. Well that but it's an Old Testament and New Testament thing. Yeah, so they're like, well, in the Old Testament, here's what happened here. In the New Testament, here's what happened here. And this is what's so important about our faith as opposed to other faiths, say. The Mormon faith or whatever. And that is within Christianity, within Judaism, within Christianity, everything that we believe is rooted in a place with real places and real people. Right, there's never been a thing that's been when it comes to you read these things, by the way, all these funny names. I was trying to read them as plowing through them. You go, and this guy went to this place, and this place and that place, and this guy went here. Right, that's what you sometimes, So don't get hung up with the words. Sometimes I like to try to plow through them. It's kind of a challenge for me. But don't get hung with the words. Stick with the story. But understand, there's never been a time in archaeological history that they've come and went, oh, that's not a real town. I've been able to prove it later as a matter of fact, every time they actually find the town, even to the point of you remember we've read here recently all the heights, the parasites, the gerbisites, right, the hit Tites. For the longest time, one hundred years ago, archaeologists saying hit Tites never existed. It's not true. They didn't exist. There should be And it turns out instead now we've discovered the hit Tites had a very large They were spread out over a very large portion of land. Right. And so. The historical things you read them and you kind of blast through them or get past them, and I get that, But just understand the reason why God includes those things is to say this is these are real people in a real place at a real time. It's not just some kind of legend like Hercules. It's not some kind of odd thing that was given on gold tablets to talk about Jesus visiting the Native Americans. This is all this being unprovable. Instead, he says, this is legitimate. These are real places, go find them and the people. And that's what's so cool. Even on a bus, Right, even on a bus, the historian goes, yeah, and see this rivery here right over in that little valley, probably right at the base of that hill is where is sister died? What? Right? And then you go on to the next one. And it's not just one or two. It's like you said, we could go weeks and weeks and just over and over and over and over again. We know where these things happen. It's legit, and it lends to the authenticity of this book, right, because if God's accurate with the little details like this, then we can trust him to be accurate with the big things too. Yeah, and it is amazing. How if you think about how curious mankind can be and how exploratory you know, we are, and think about the professions that have you know, allowed us to spend I mean, you know, groups of people, they spend their entire lives either trying to prove or disprove things you know, by archaeological digs and by history and everything else and none of that. But think about this, Think about the droves of people throughout the world that are determined to prove Christianity false. Right. I mean there are people who you. Know who they have testimonies where they talk about groups of people where their mission is just to find one thing, and you know, can we just find one thing that proves that it's false? And every single time it's proven to be true. When God lays out these these minute details, it's almost like he's challenging us. Go ahead, right, go ahead, right, because there's. Such minute details. Well, hey, let's pivot this a little bit. Take the last couple of minutes, and let's talk about Deborah herself. We kind of blew past that. Deborah was a judge for forty years. It's awesome. Forty years she led the nation of Israel. And there's this really great little thing here in the Life Application Study Bible. You should get yourself one. She was the only judge of Israel. She had great abilities, as we see, as a mediator. She's sitting there, you know, underneath this trade people come and sort things out. She was an advisor, she was a counselor. And when it was her turn to lead, when God called on her to lead, she was able to plan and direct and delegate even to generals setting up for this great battle. And then of course the Bible says she was a prophetess, right, and so just a really powerful woman. I love this story. You know, there's been a couple times here recently where we mention there aren't very many people in the Bible that God mentions that don't have some kind of big flaw too, right. I think we've mentioned Daniel doesn't seem to have a big flaw, Joseph maybe doesn't have much of a big flaw. Chad reck, Mischek and Bendigo don't seem to have big flaws. But I mean, dude, a bunch of the others do Moses killed a guy, David killed a guy and had an affair. I mean, you just go down the line. Abraham lied, right, you had all these things. But Deborah is one of the other ones. I think when we made that list before, of just a stellar reputation with no nothing is mentioned to her about her her weaknesses. Yes, she just is a great leader for forty years, and. As a reader of the Bible for the last thirty something years, I often wonder about that sometimes. So sometimes I because. I'm a very firm believer and we're going to get to heaven all of us, every single one of us, and every one of us is gonna be wrong about something. Oh sure, right, and so we're going to get to heaven and we're going to understand. Oh that's what that meant. Right. If God wanted us to know, he would have told us. There are things that are omitted, not because you know, not because they didn't exist. It's just could be that they just weren't recorded. So there's a part of me that wonders, is it. Did she have flaws but they just sort of, you know, isolated this one section of her life and highlighted it in full detail reference to her big accomplishments and then moved on even though she also had these big flaws. Or is it to where she was a woman of integrity and leadership And maybe it was she get to the end of the life and it was so stellar that she had no flaws or very little. Yeah, she wouldn't be sinless. I think there's a difference between waking up on Monday mornings and being grumpy until you get your coffee right, and. I don't know, having an affair and killing a guy. So one is a flaw. The other is a fail one example, one's a fatal flaw, right one is a devastating This is a massive mark on your reputation. And what she doesn't seem to have is any massive negative marks by her reputation. Daniel didn't have any. Daniel wasn't perfect, but he didn't have any massive reputational marks. I have a tendency to lean toward that if there was a flaw, it would have been mentioned. And the reason why is because God goes out of his way to talk about the depravity of all of this followers right to just demonstrate to us that, yeah, we refer to them in the New Testament, for instance, as saints, which by the way, is a pretty unfair label, you know, because yeah, if you go by the definition of saints, I guess it could work, but saints. What that does is it sort of separates us from them. But the reality is is everything in the Bible communicates to us that they were exactly like us, flawed in every way. And so what we can learn from her is here's a great leader who's available to her people. Everybody knew where she was, had access to her, and she courageously led, but she led in the power of God's spirit and with God's wisdom. Right, that's what she did. So I think she's a great lesson for all of us and we should look up to her. And you might want to go on and read she writes this really beautiful song of celebration in. The next chapter, chapter five. We didn't take time to read it, but yeah, pretty great. Well, that's all the time we have right now, and hopefully we'll see you tomorrow. On the Bible Gus