Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Running a business is one thing. Building a business that pays you, funds your lifestyle, and creates real wealth? That’s different.
On ZFO Insider, we take you behind the scenes of how high-performing entrepreneurs turn their everyday operations into generational wealth machines; businesses that create real income, lasting freedom, and a legacy that actually matters.
This is your Masterclass in financial vision and business scaling.
Real Numbers. Real Stories. Real Strategies, that turn your cash flow into power.
See you on the inside.
Most small business owners think visibility means adding more locations or running more
ads.
But Steve Moore, founder of Runmore, didn't either and yet he built a national brand
anyway.
From a single shop in Maryland, he used YouTube, grassroots events, and a deep love for
running to turn his local store into a national voice in the running world.
We try to give people a reason to want to come in and be social.
like over the years, we've had couples that have met, gotten married at our group runs.
Like we've had really cool experiences.
Truly.
Yes.
Like it's so cool.
you know, it is half of it's fun running with people.
There is a fun social side to it.
In this episode of the ZFO Insider, we'll break down just how he did it and what every
founder needs to know about scaling your reach beyond your zip code.
Let's dive in.
Well, Steve, thank you for joining us today or allowing me to join you today in your
store.
was gonna say thank you for making the trip out here and seeing my little brick and mortar
shop.
It's amazing.
It's beautiful.
I see amazing shoes.
If you're a runner, this episode is for you.
Visit Steve's and get yourself a pair of sneaks.
Well, I appreciate that.
And not just runners.
say a huge chunk of our customers are just people that are walking.
I mean, the importance of having proper footwear for work, for post injury, plantar
fascia, you know, all the things.
Got to have the right shoes for all.
Yeah, okay.
That actually makes me feel better because some of us used to run and cannot run like we
once did, so we can walk.
Cool.
My wife, when I first came up with the idea of Runmore, actually my friend came up with
the idea, she was like, that's a terrible name for the store.
She's like, cause it's going to intimidate people walking in.
And like one of the things we hear so frequently is this apologetic, I'm not a runner, but
that's like a, I'm sorry, I'm wasting your time.
I'm not a runner, but I'm looking for shoes.
So it's like, we try to make that nice, like warm and fuzzy feeling coming in, whether
you're just somebody looking for the good footwear or somebody who just looks good in a
pair of running shoes, or actually somebody who's running.
So Steve, let's talk about brand.
So when I think about brand, I usually think we all know is like the experience that you
have with a client or with the store, right?
um However, I think that something that's not often talked about brand is actually the
reach.
Brand is the experience, but reach is actually how many people actually get a chance to
experience your brand.
And I think you figured it out.
Tell me about...
When did you realize that your store wasn't local anymore?
Because you started getting into YouTube and that's kind of opened up new opportunities
for you to even, you know, maybe even go international.
When was it that you felt that your store was no longer local?
Well, we had a video for a shoe called the Hoka Rincon.
This was like just before COVID happened and we were making these videos and truly at
first it was just fun.
I had an intern that was making a project for school and it was something kind of fun that
they needed to do.
And I used to have a radio show on running.
So like, yeah, I did.
had over two years.
It was just a Carroll County radio show.
It was for AMFM for Carroll County.
So it was called the run around with Steve Moore and I would do,
It was 30 minutes every week and it was sort of a double edged sword.
was like, I could talk about running, but I had no direction.
They were just like, we want to fill it with some sort of sports health and wellness radio
show.
And so I would every week come up with my own topics and things I wanted to talk about.
So I got pretty accustomed to just talking in front of a mic, being able to sort of
pontificate for a while about whatever topic is on my mind.
ah And then we started doing these videos and they were, you know, small and...
We started getting a couple of subscribers here and there, but then we had a shoe called
the Hoka Rincon.
And because we're a dealer, a lot of times we get shoes before they're released to the
masses.
our audience understand that you're a dealer.
know a deal, we have, know, we understand what dealers are, but from your perspective,
what do you mean?
So I don't make any products here.
We're a brick and mortar store and I carry a bunch of products from many different shoes
from Asics to New Balance to Hoka.
So we get a chance to curate our own products and stuff that we wanna carry in the shop.
So being a guy who loves running, it's really fun, because it's like I'm picking the
collection of shoes that I want in my own rotation a lot of times.
ah So I carry a bunch of products that I think will be exciting to people out there.
And so when I start doing the videos, it's just me sort of
talking about these shoes.
And that's sort of the way that I think about a lot of this is somebody walks in and says,
tell me everything you know about this shoe.
And so I had the chance to talk about a shoe that hadn't reached anybody yet.
This was a Hoka shoe.
you know, years ago, the brick and mortar side pre-COVID, it's sort of, it's crazy how
COVID changed so many things for so many people.
But it used to be that the brick and mortar stores got products before the brands listed
it online, right?
So like the new Hoka comes out on January 1st, we might get a December one.
So we would have this opportunity to show it to our customer base before it hit e-comm,
before it was on HokaRunning.com.
And at the time, nobody was really doing anything with that information.
And the brands truly, feel like Hoka made them think about their message more.
like, hate, it's hard for me to but like a lot of times now I feel like they think like
they don't need us as much as they think they do.
Like they have such a huge distribution list that they now wanna control the.
control the message.
But back in the day, was just sort of, here's some shoes and you guys have an opportunity
to get on people's feet.
Well, we started doing these videos and I said, here's the shoe and it's coming out.
I'm gonna tell everybody all about it.
And we said, if you want to pre-order it, you can pre-order it from us now.
I broke my hand, I fell running.
oh And so I went in for surgery and we put the video up and I'm in the hospital waiting
room.
And all of a sudden I'm getting these emails of like, order.
And truly.
we hadn't really sold much of anything online and we didn't have a whole lot of
infrastructure in place for it.
And I went under and I came back and our video had a ton of views and we had sold, you
know, we'd sold a bunch of these shoes.
And at the time we were only able to list the products that we had.
So if I sold a size 10, that was it.
Well, we sold through every shoe that we had of that initial run of the Hoka Rincon, which
was really cool.
So I come out and it's like, we really need to think about all of this.
We need to think about making sure we have the right boxes and such because
It's not as easy as it sounds to just sell a pair of shoes online.
There's actually a bunch of different ways you can lose money along the way.
If you don't have the right shipping, if you don't have the right package size, like
there's a bunch of little things that we do and through trial and error, we got better and
better at it to make it more efficient because there is, know, when you do a free
shipping, it's not free shipping for us and somebody gets people are accustomed to free
shipping, but there's costs behind it.
And if you aren't smart in the way that you're using your packaging and such, you can make
that a much more cost of the endeavor.
Sure.
Now I remember those days back in the day when the lines will be out the door waiting for
the release of that covered issue.
Every brand kind of had that story of everyone really, uh what's the word, clamoring?
Yeah.
Like clamoring for that new release and all of them released on an annual basis.
Do you still get those lines or are people more opting for online orders?
So it's interesting is they are now depending on the brand and the model, we are seeing
brands kind of control that narrative differently.
Some brands we were just, one of my associates here and I, we were just ordering shoes for
next year.
So one of the things we do is these manufacturers will come to us and it's really one of
the coolest things we get to do is they'll say, hey, in 2026 in six months, eight months,
a year from now, here's this shoe that's gonna release and here's the eight colors it's
gonna come in for and what's your feedback on it.
So we sort of have a pulse on what's coming down the road.
And what we're finding more and more again, this has been a post COVID changes.
We're going to list it on our site for a month before you do.
Or what we're seeing now is we're going to sell this in REI only for a month before it
makes it to you.
like we sometimes don't know exactly what shoe is going to be the hottest shoe.
REI it's like a Nash.
It's sort of like a Dick's sporting goods.
It's like a, but they do much more on like outdoor stuff and they carry a lot more brands
that you might see in here as well.
But it's a huge player for us as far as outdoor outdoor running shoes and they carry.
and all that kind of
So I would imagine that the relationship between retailers and the brand as you mentioned
have shifted a bit I'm giving the online space now in your person from your shoes You
started YouTube you started doing shoe reviews.
So it's like you are becoming less of just a distributor and more of the the customers
trust is Is that fair to say?
100%.
Yeah, truly.
I think, you know, I think there's a couple of reasons why that has maybe clicked.
One, we were early with it.
I think that always helps if you sort of are ahead of the game on it.
You know, there's a lot of people that probably do what we do way better, but we've got a
little bit of traction behind it.
I think like anything, we have reps.
I've done this a ton, I've got a ton of videos.
You know, I was doing a radio show.
And even as the store first started, you know, I think I've always sort of looked at this
store like I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder.
Like a lot of people do.
When I first opened, most of the brands you see here wouldn't sell to me.
So you you think you have this, you start a small business and you pick up the phone and
you say, hey, Phil Knight, I want to sell some Nikes and they go, hey, here's some shoes.
Most everybody said, no, we don't believe in you.
We don't believe in Carroll County.
This area where your store is, is too small.
There's only 20,000 people in Westminster.
It's not worth the risk for us.
I had a brand and you know,
I couldn't get a loan.
know, lot of this time it was post 2009 financial collapse where you could, there were,
need two years business experience before we send you a loan to start up your business.
I'm like, well, how, does that work?
like cashed in my own personal 401k.
I worked another full-time job for a year.
And so I had every dollar that I had and didn't have betting against my future on this
business.
And then I'd have a brand be like,
you'll be out of business in six months.
So I have a brand that I don't, I don't currently work with because they were so
dismissive.
And it was like, I've done everything and I just want the opportunity to put your shoe.
I'm going to show you what I can do with it.
So we had to work so hard early on with these offshoot brands.
Like when people would come in and they'd say, I want a, you name it, a Brooks ghost,
which is a very popular everyday trainer.
I'd say, I don't have that shoe, but here's a brand you've never heard of.
And here's the shoe that they want to make.
That's like a Brooks ghost.
So I have to talk to you about it.
I have to get it.
It is a tough sale, but like, here's why this shoe is different.
Here's the differentiation between it.
And here's why you'd want to support that brand.
Here's what they're standing for.
And so like, I got really comfortable talking about the differences between shoes and just
being able to like identify with a customer, what their needs are and what they might like
out of it.
And so that's the direction with my videos is much more, I'm going to educate you on it.
I think so much stuff in our space too is why I think there's somewhat of a trust on our
side.
It's not necessarily of like, I like this shoe, I hate this shoe.
It's more, this is what this shoe is.
depending on what you're looking, maybe that's not what you're looking for.
Maybe it is, but if it is or isn't, I'm gonna give you every little bit of information
about that shoe so you can make the right decision.
for you.
Yeah, and that's actually very cool because everyone really wants to be educated and
that's how you actually build trust.
I'm even learning that, you know, the best way I've heard this quote that said the best
way to prove that you can actually serve somebody is just by serving them, just by doing
the thing right.
So the best way you can sell them a shoe is by selling them on the shoe like and telling
the story of it.
I want to get into into more than just telling the story of the shoe and doing shoe
reviews because
you do, you actually are a runner.
So it's not that you're just talking about the specs of the shoe, the materials made from,
you've actually taken these shoes out on the road and many of us are now willing to do
that level of market research or product research.
Tell me about that, your running experience and how that has led into, you know, your shoe
reviews.
I would say I'm blessed.
Blessed is the word that I found running when I was very young.
it's one of those things like I did it when I was a little kid and I literally remember
being like, I will do this until I can't anymore.
And I knew like I got to run collegiately, I've coached, I've done all of the things.
And along those ways, like talking about reps of doing videos is I've run in so many
shoes.
I've read so many things.
And like without really realizing it, you start to stack all these experiences and things
that you can talk about.
And I have pretty good recall of
this shoe reminds me of that shoe in 2008 that had the upper width.
And some of those things truly, like you can't necessarily replicate that if you haven't
done it.
Like I've run 50,000 miles in my life.
Like I've pounded the pavement.
I've put the miles in and like I've worked and talked to the people.
I've fit 10,000 people over, know, all the people and done all the things and it helps and
truly because I love running so much and I truly believe like it is.
It is the best thing, it has changed my life and so every decision that has been good in
my life, I can trace back to running.
It is the guiding force in my life and it's, you I think that everybody can be the best
version of themselves if they run or if they find that thing that they're passionate about
that gets them excited.
And if people come in here and there's a chance that maybe running can help them in some
way, like it's my responsibility to line them up with the shoe, to keep them healthy, to
put the events on in here that they can come and be a part of it.
If we can take on any reason why somebody won't want to run.
Cause you know what I mean?
It's hard, right?
Like a lot of times it's like, Oh man, it's a grind and I got the stuff to do.
But if we can make the shoes feel good, if we can make sure that you feel healthy, that we
give you a place to come as a community, it will give you that reason to want to go.
For sure.
You know, uh I also ran in college too.
And so I have a unique uh love for running as well.
I don't run as much, but definitely have been able to stay active.
One of the things I really loved about running and just being around the sport is the
events that happen around the sport.
Right.
So like I went to, you know, we have track meets all the time, going to Penn relays and,
and experiencing the event outside of the race.
It's like a whole different atmosphere.
So I know that you have some events that uh you work on and that you host and that you go
to.
One is called the Cookie Run.
Yeah, we do a bunch of events throughout the year and that was one of the ones I I'm a big
fan of the Great British Bake Off if you know that show on Netflix.
My wife's a chef and so like we're big into food stuff.
Are you a Seriously, I you know, like I truly I'm very fortunate on that as well.
But you know, we were trying to find events because we do we do a bunch of group runs all
the time.
Like I said, we try to give people reason.
to want to come in and be social.
like over the years we've had couples that have met, gotten married at our group runs.
Like we've had really cool experiences.
Yes.
Like it's so cool.
And, and you know, it is half of it's fun running with people.
There is a fun social side to it.
And I always say like, if you were seriously into field hockey and you played field hockey
in college, once you graduate,
There's not a whole lot of opportunity in places to do that, but like we can create a
community here where people can run forever.
We have regular customers in their 80s that are out there racing and coming to our runs.
But we were trying to, we wanted to make an event that was kind of fun and unique and we
wanted to do a cookie contest.
So it started with, okay, you have to bring cookies to make and my wife is gonna judge
them.
And then we're gonna give out some awards and if you don't wanna cook, make cookies, you
have to bring either some canned goods to look for the local food bank.
or unwrapped toys to bring to donate to charity.
And so it's gotten bigger and bigger.
We've had some Ravens players come and do guest judging for us.
We've just tried to make it as a fun and unique thing that we can do.
And it's my favorite time because we get to give back to the charities.
We get to eat cookies.
And I was like, I create an event where I get to eat cookies and run and then help the
community.
I'm like, that's what it's all about.
But we do Halloween runs.
We do trail runs, track runs.
We try to think of all the places that people might want to go.
And if there's any reason why they, you know, if there's like that one hesitation to make
them not want to go run, we try to take it away.
There's always an event.
There's always a reason for you to come out and put your shoes on and find somebody to run
with.
Now let's shift to the business side of all of this.
Right.
So obviously you're spending time on marketing through YouTube content development.
You're also spending a lot on the actual event or maybe are you like is the uniqueness of
a running event?
it is it affordable and does this actually has it?
Have you seen it actually uh grow your brand as it been something positive?
Absolutely, you know, especially when we first opened because we were new and we didn't
have a lot of shoes that people were familiar with.
Like we started doing weekly runs early.
people test them alongside you?
Sometimes, yeah, that's what's really fun is some of the brands doesn't have, I would say
maybe six to eight times a year, a manufacturer will come out with demos of these shoes
and they'll say, hey, try a pair of this shoe on and you can go run in it.
And so like, that's a lot of time too, is when I'm talking to people, you should come and
try it.
Maybe if you're not in the market for now, you can put that information in your back
pocket for when you do want to spend money on a pair of shoes.
But here's a good excuse for you to come, go to the trail.
put on a real pair of trail shoes and see the difference of what the traction feels like
running through mud in somebody else's shoes, where you can take them off, hand them back
to the rep and feel like I've just muddied those shoes up, they're not mine.
But now I know if I like or dislike those shoes down the road.
You know, our runs are all free for the consumer and it doesn't really cost us anything
either.
Yeah, I mean, the manufacturers, if we do a group run, sometimes they'll bring some
t-shirts to give out and such, but otherwise, it has just come as you are.
We have walkers, we have runners.
We do a beer run once a month and sometimes we'll pick up a round of beers for a hundred
bucks and sometimes the manufacturer does and sometimes we don't.
It's just more about the community.
But if we give people that welcome space and the more that we do those, sometimes we've
had runs where only a few people show up.
We've had runs with over a hundred people show up.
I would say our average is about 50 people.
So they come from all over.
They come from the just local community, but it's like, that's our grassroots.
Those are the people that like live in our zip code.
They come in, they're wearing the Run More shirt.
We see them a couple times a month at these events and when they're in here, hey, we're
here 15 minutes early.
Oh, you have a new shirt.
I'm gonna pick that up.
I'm gonna try those shoes on for next time.
It gives us a greater chance to like see what they need and hear what they need as well.
When you start seeing people wearing maybe a shoe you don't have, you start, right.
It's our own market research.
The average person comes into a shop like mine once every 214 days.
That's the average.
When she
So like you have like, so, you only get that really one chance a year, you know, like, so
you have to make sure you have the right product mix for them and such.
So these people that are our repeats, that's like, we have to make sure that we're fingers
on the pulse of what they.
Talk to me about uh how you maintain your inventory in such a long buying cycle.
That's a challenge.
It's really hard, especially as the times have changed where brands now make so many
different colors of shoes.
When we first opened, it would be three or four pairs of three or four colors of shoes.
But now it's truly, know, a Brooks Ghost, for example, guys, 20 different colors, not to
mention three or four different widths of each one.
And there's like a.
I feel like Amazon has sort of done us wrong because people are just assume they'll look
at our shop like you have every color and width in the back and it's like we have 70
styles of shoes like I can only have so much room in here.
So we try to pick out the right colors but we have the ability to ship colors a lot of
times.
So we might pick two or three of the best colors and if someone comes in as like I only
need to I need a blue shirt, blue shoe, it has to be blue.
We might ship directly from our manufacturer.
and say, we'll get it your house, we'll do free shipping, you'll have it in three or four
days.
And that way we can kind of hold onto that sale without having to stick so much inventory
back there.
within 60 days of a new release, as you said before, it's pretty much annually a new shoe
comes out.
You almost have to start letting those shoes bleed out because once the new shoe comes
out, those shoes become dinosaurs.
And we have no control over our price.
Whether you shop here or Dick's Sporting Goods or from the manufacturer, all those shoes
are priced exactly the same.
Interesting.
So like to me, uh it's a good and bad thing.
Like it's great because that made, I don't have to compete with dicks because they're
always going to buy it cheaper than me.
They're always going have a better buying strategy than me so that they can, they can't
list it less than me.
So to me, then it's, we giving to the community?
Do you see a sponsoring your kids basket bingo?
Are we in your podiatrist office?
Are we hosting the group run?
There's that trust and value from.
at the end of the day, uh there's no real, mean, prices are pretty stable.
You're not really competing on the price.
Like you're competing on the trust that you have with people because they'll see Steve and
say, Steve's my guy.
I want to buy from him.
I could go buy elsewhere, but I'm going to buy here.
I think that is a huge part of it is that there is like a, you we try to do hit the shop
local, even though like we might not be your local store.
Like if you're watching us, we're sort of your local expert voice in that.
And so like we do, we lead off all of ours with, it's your old pal Steve from Runmore
here, owner of Runmore, this fabulous brick and mortar running shop located in
Westminster, Maryland.
So I do, said it billion times, but you know, like it.
It does a couple of things.
like, this is a true, it is, you we are a literally on Main Street.
We literally are a brick and mortar running shop.
everything is not a vague background, you know?
And we get people all the time that walk in the door and say,
you say in the beginning of your videos, I'm from Westminster, Maryland.
I live in Salisbury.
I live in this part.
It's like, I realize you're not that far away.
So it does bring people locally who watch our videos that outside of this marketplace, but
it makes people feel a little like, I know this guy, it's your old pal.
It's your pal Steve.
Like there is a little bit of that casualness.
I like, we try to like, one of the things I, I, I, I small flex here is like almost all
our videos are one take no notes.
So I just walk up there.
I have my specs memorized and I just go,
boom, here's just uh me talking for eight minutes about this shoe.
And it feels very casual that way.
It doesn't feel celly.
doesn't, just like, I'm just, you just walked in and said, tell me all about this shoe.
And it's just, here's me and reminds me of this.
It fits a little long, so size back a half.
If you have a fat foot, make sure you go, like, I just give some of that information.
Like, and assuming that 99,
percentage those people aren't gonna buy it from me, but I'm giving them the information
so that they can then go take it elsewhere if and they need to.
And at the end, hey, if you wanna buy it from me, I got a link down below.
We'd love for you to support our little small business here.
And so like we give them some information, we hopefully build a connection, we tell them
to give us a follow and it's like a nice little conversation we have with them.
We encourage them to leave comments and questions down below, like myself and Ryan, my
associate over here, we'll go through and answer YouTube questions.
We encourage you to leave a question.
How does this shoe compare to that shoe?
as if you walked in the store and asked me that thing.
Yeah, that's very cool because we really are just trying to be educated, like we said.
And if you are the guy that can tell me the answers or just get that part, I don't have to
do additional research.
I just got to go listen to Steve.
Then I will be more likely to just buy from you.
Of course.
Now I think that there's two things I want to talk about.
It's like you mentioned that people come to the store simply because they've seen you
online and that's such a powerful thing.
Right.
I think we take that for granted on
on social media, but you actually get to see how digital marketing translates to stored
in-store traffic.
It's been a big boost to our business.
And it's funny, sometimes we can almost tell people that are YouTube people because
they'll walk in and you see them like look around like, you know, like there's a little
bit of this, like it is such a flattering thing when somebody said, I drove 90 minutes
because I wanted to come and support your store.
And there's not, you know, there's maybe like 2,500 specialty running stores in the
country.
So it's not like there's five, but there's, there's a lot.
And so for somebody to make that time commitment, they're driving past other shops that
are doing.
that might have similar product mix than ours.
But we're advertising what we have because I'm curating my own selection of shoes here.
There's so many shoes out there.
So if somebody watched the video, at least they know that shoe is available at that store.
And I think that makes it hard to people walk into stores and because the selection is so
great.
Again, some of these brands, my Hoka catalog when I first opened was four pages.
Now it's 84 pages.
They make so many products.
So it's like, I want that one model.
I watched your video.
I know it's at your store.
So I'm gonna go there.
I also, have a trust with you.
walk in and I can literally, I always say in my videos, like come by, there's a good
chance you'll catch me while I'm here.
Like it's so cool when somebody makes a point that that guy came from so-and-so from your
video and I'll come out and hey, how you doing?
Like it's really nice to put boots on the ground, have that kind of reach.
And it gives you not just from views and clicks and sales, but like you can see that it
actually makes a difference in people.
And truly if like my mission is to share the joy of running and like let people experience
the running in some capacity.
Whether they buy it from me or not, it's almost doesn't matter.
just like, I think of it almost like a religion.
Like I want to share running with as many people as I can.
And along the way, I think it will, it will pay us in sales, but it's more about spreading
the message.
So recently I saw this uh running event.
Do you still keep, I'm sure you keep up with all of the track, the pro track circles.
Are you into the high school races as well?
We do a lot of work around here.
I want to say it was maybe it was in the last indoor national championship for high
schools.
And it was this, they were running their races around the track and there was music
pumping playing as they run.
I think they were running the DMR and every five seconds the lights will go off and then
it will come back on and it'll go off.
and come back on.
It seemed as though the event planners wanted to add a bit of drama to the race.
Do you do some of those spectacles in your events?
No, mean, I couldn't do anything to that excitement, unfortunately.
Unfortunately, I don't have anything as exciting as pyrotechnics or anything like that.
But we do try to make it as fun because I think there is, you know, there is an
intimidation factor for a lot of people.
There's so many people that come out, they don't have your night background of running
collegiately.
They are new, they are just trying to find their footing, no pun intended, in running.
And so if we give it a, hey, you get a free beer at the end.
Hey, we're gonna meet at.
That series Ryan and I last year 530 in the morning.
We'll be at the track and just come out as you are and we'll have a good time after.
You want me to come out as I am at 5.30am?
uh
you know, we just want to make people feel as warm and fuzzy as they possibly can and Nick
will do like a, raise your hand if this is your first time here.
Hey everybody, it is our responsibility to make sure ZO gets back to the shop, not getting
lost, has a good time.
So if you're near him, make sure you introduce yourself and make sure you talk to him a
little bit like.
We running is so much fun with people.
So like if we can build some connections for people, like that's a big part of what we do.
So while we don't have pyrotechnics, we do have good vibes.
All right, so your opinion on paid ads, because you're all organic right now.
I don't think you've ever done.
You've never done ads, right?
Do you think ads will ever add be a part of something of your marketing mix?
You know, we had just in the last probably six weeks had some vendors that have committed
financially to some of our marketing stuff.
Like we're actually getting some money to help produce our videos a little bit more for
YouTube, which is really cool.
But some of one of the brands we talked to specifically asked if we would use some of that
money to do some paid ads.
So like we are probably going to dip our toes into it, but quite nicely, it's not our
money.
You know, to us at that point, it's the vendors that are committing to it.
But I really have felt over the years like,
I like the grassroots.
think people can kind of sniff out a little bit of like, this isn't feel very organic.
I don't necessarily like that vine.
think we build people's trust one mile at a time and one conversation at a time.
And like, I like it better and people just stumble upon us quite frankly.
But it will be a good excuse for us to try with somebody else sort of backing it to see
how that goes.
Yeah.
So you told me that your brand, I mean, you've been a local legend for some, years now.
Um, but now you're starting to get some traction even internationally, maybe in some
strategic relationships.
Tell us about that.
And are you scared to go international or is it exciting?
It's so exciting.
A couple of years ago, my wife and I made a real like concerted effort to figure out how
we can relocate to Portugal.
We have this like, we just see the idea of moving somewhere outside the country as like
this fun, fascinating thing.
And I think as the channel has grown, YouTube is amazing to see statistics and see how
many people outside of your area are watching it.
So we get asked pretty frequently through comments.
can you ship to XYZ country?
And sometimes it's cost prohibitive, you know, like there is tariffs on our products going
out.
Like when we do pay the shipping and such, it's interesting, like brands will make colors
that are only available in this country or that country.
So a lot of times it's like, I want that Hoka Clifton 10 in the color you have because I
can't get it in France.
So we've shipped around the world a little bit from that, from that reason.
But I just got back from France.
had a manufacturer that is looking to get in United States and they found us and they
wanted our input on some stuff.
So I got to go out to France, which was amazing and see some of the behind the scenes
working of this massive company.
So this company is called Decathlon Sports.
So they're the largest sporting goods company in the world.
So think of like a Dick's Sporting Goods, except they're making their own products.
They're trying to get into specialty running.
They already make running shoes now, but sort of at a lower scale, like more of an entry
level for somebody.
Most of their shoes are like 60 to $70 euro right now.
So it's much more for somebody who's just getting into running.
They wanted to make running shoes more accessible to everybody.
It's a tremendous mission that they're doing there.
They want to get into more on the, they call it their expert line.
So they wanted to get some more performance stuff in and they reached out to us to kind of
get our opinion and input on their shoes and how to get in the United States.
I almost view it as almost like a consulting opportunity, as a way for me to work with
these brands to figure out how they can help transition to the United States and then we
could be one of the flagship early retailers for their product.
And I just see that as a great way to kind of dip our toes in it.
And then this fall, I got invited to this international running expo in Amsterdam.
My goal with that is if I can find a brand who's only in Europe, and if I can start doing
reviews for them and have a distributor over there, I can ship.
already from the UK to customers over there and then maybe make a couple bucks along the
way and then I would have an American perspective on a European brand.
So I'm hoping to find some distribution opportunities out there but I'm just thinking how
I can expand my reach.
that is phenomenal.
That's a great opportunity and great strategy as well.
you're going international.
And I think that your teaching on YouTube is one of the reasons why that opportunity even
exists.
Because the store has a voice.
The store has already done this.
You have the reps.
So now they're like, okay, Steve knows this stuff.
Let's bring him up the chain and figure out if we can do this in another country.
Do you think that the
Do you think that your knowledge on US brands and shoes will be able to translate to a
different country?
I do.
honestly, this trip last week was so eye opening about like how powerful our voice,
meaning like the United States is as far as like the consumers, like everybody wants to
hear from us.
Everybody wants to be in our market.
So truly like apples to apples, there's something about like your United States brand.
You have a store in America.
How far are you from Washington, DC?
Like they know the big cities.
They know the value that we come with.
I think there's...
really good chances to be able to go in there with some different perspective of I'm an
American and here's what we think there and right or wrong like you know if we could take
advantage of that opportunity I'm I certainly want to be able to lean into that a little
bit but I think I think it's a really interesting direction and we were sort of talking
you know you and I were talking this before we got started about like how we can expand
our voice through content and not through doors and I think this like this class that I'm
taking with you through Goldman Sachs and this lesson I'm took from Francis
of thinking outside of the way that most people would think to expand is the old school
way is just you need to open more doors, you need to franchise, need blah, blah, blah,
blah.
But I think this is a less cost as well, right?
The overhead isn't the same.
If I can ship from my same store that I'm also selling, if I'm shipping out the back door
while selling through the front door, we're maximizing our square footage, we're
maximizing our research and our buying and such without over committing because just like
anything else.
There's a constant changing in the way people shop and buy through AI, through online,
through the partnerships with our brands who's constantly evolving.
Like this allows us to be more nimble, I think, than being spread out through multiple
places.
And I think there is, you know, I'm blessed to have such a great staff here that have all
been here years and years and years, but like, I think that, you know, the voice that we
have is really good because we are such a tight knit group.
And I think the more you expand with doors and you bring in 10, 20 people, it gets watered
down.
It does.
does.
The potency of that voice gets a little watered down.
ah Now, so how long have you been in business?
11 years, guys.
What an accomplishment.
uh Are there things that you...
So some of us think of our past and where we've grown from in different perspectives.
Some may look and say, man, look at it with regret.
Like, man, I wish I knew some things.
Or others might look...
at it like, no I needed to go through that in order to become who I am.
Where do you fall along those lines?
So the store that we're in now is my second location.
We had moved just before COVID.
I was in a very tall spot, about 250 meters from where we're sitting right now and poor
visibility.
But if I started here, we would have gone out of business immediately.
is way too much square footage.
And again, I only had a few brands working with me.
Like I opened that store with $25,000.
That's all I can open with.
And I spent $16,000 of it on renovations in that building.
Like there was like four shoes on the wall.
Had I tried to start here, we would have failed.
And like those first couple of years, you know, I worked a full-time job my first year.
I was coaching.
did a beginning couch to 5k program at night.
So I was working nights.
I was working the store.
was working weekends.
And then I started timing races.
And then at one point I had 42 races a year that I was timing.
I was overseeing, was chip timing, was race director.
And all of those little pieces have got me to where just no different from all the miles
that I've run have given me like insight on shoes.
I think all of those life lessons and that so many failures along the way and so many,
can't believe what I'm doing.
I think that has made me stronger and a little more resilient that I think if we walked in
now and all the brands said here, we'll sell to you today and anything you want, what's
your credit limit?
I think the amount of times that we sort of been kicked in the teeth along the way, the
tough lessons have made us so much better and got us more hungry, I think as well.
Yeah, I if you get hit in the jaw a few times, your jaw gets tougher, right?
And I like to tell people that business is really a journey about yourself, like your
personal growth.
And there's growth that you cannot skip.
Just like if you say you ran how many miles in your lifetime?
50,000.
Like you can't skip that 50,000 miles.
You actually have to run it one mile at a time.
And it's the same with our life, the same with our business.
You have to go through year one, year two, and go through those iterations, which is why I
said 10 years, 11 years is a great accomplishment.
So congratulations to you.
I want you to speak to, let's say a smaller version of yourself or someone who's in your
shoes, let's say eight years ago.
All right.
What were some things that you wish that you knew then that you know now that will
probably speed up your progress then?
I think if I would have slowed down, it's something that I'm still trying to work with,
and think more about how the store can operate without my fingerprint on everything.
It's one of the things I'm working on now is getting better systems in place.
I think one of the things is if your foundation is a little bit rocky, things continue to
get rocky.
And like, I feel like some of the things I was doing then, I was spinning so many plates
because like, quite frankly, I had to, I had to find different ways to bring revenue in
and find new people.
was like,
I was stacking on top of like a poor foundation.
And it's like only till like the past year or so where like, I've been able to really have
some staff that have been with me for three, four or five years.
They were able to sort of go back and try to fix our base.
I think if I would have just been like, maybe say no to a few opportunities then that
seemed really great that, and say, I need more time.
Instead of just like work smarter, not harder.
I think when I was there, I just felt like.
If I could fill up my day 24 seven with stuff, good things will come, but maybe to just
stop and slow down and like, let's build a really strong foundation oh of a uh workbook,
of all those little things.
We still find ourselves now with like a Steve's the only one who can do that.
That customer only works with Steve and it's great, but it's not to the point of scalable
at times.
And so we're trying to figure out ways that the store can.
Like I said, my fingerprints always gonna be in here.
My name is on the door, but like how we can operate the store at a higher level without so
much of my daily involved.
Yeah, and isn't that what we're all trying to accomplish as business owners?
And I think that actually goes against the runner's mentality because you're like, I gotta
go, go, go.
What does it mean for a runner to run slow?
We don't do that.
You gotta run fast.
So you definitely is you're going to learn it one way or another and the experience of
actually running the business is going to humble you to slow down.
Absolutely.
And it's hard, it's hard to especially like, because I've, you know, for years I was like
kind of working alone or I had like one part-time person those first years.
Like I fit like everybody who came through the door.
So there is a level of like, I always, I always work with Steve.
And if you work with one, like if I'm fitting somebody, it might be a 45 minute one-on-one
connection with me, but that loses my opportunity to talk to 400 people.
So like trying to figure out a way to make sure that everybody understands and does the
exact same way that I would.
So that the customer's experience, whether it's me or one of other staff, like,
it's exactly the same.
And that will allow me to step back and think about sort of the next step in the business.
Yeah, I got two more questions for you.
This one is given the consulting opportunity.
uh Is that something that you would, you know, you would do more of or will we find run
more in going to other events like panel discussion?
I mean, you're on a podcast right now, but like the way you find yourself at other track
meets, other things, just doing general consulting around running.
I would love that truly.
Like one of those things when I like think about where I want to be in five or 10 years,
like we I'm going to a running event this later this year is called the running event.
And like, I've had this goal for a while of like, I want to be one of the lead speakers
here at Sunpoint.
I want to start doing more, you know, I feel like I have a voice and I have a history and
like, like everybody else I've had things that running has helped me with.
I think there's like some, some knowledge that I can share with that and not just on a
personal connection of a running means me, but running a small business from truly like.
from the ground up with no money, no shoes, nothing of like, think there's some value to
that.
I just think, I think there's an experience there that I think I would love to share.
And so I'm hoping at some point to start doing a little bit more of that.
And I'm kind of also hoping, I've always kind of secretly hoped that the YouTube will
allow me an opportunity.
And it seems like it is to be able to share my voice more.
sure.
Now this last question is going to hit the heart but not in the way that you think.
Is there any amount of money that you can receive to stop what you're doing and stop
running the store and get out of running?
don't think so.
Like I, you know, especially out of running.
No, no, it's, it's, you know, I've, I've, I've given up so many things along the way
because of running not, and I don't mean that in a bad way of just like, I've, I've made
personal sacrifices and I've things for the sport and for my own sanity through running.
I couldn't walk away with it.
Like if somebody came in here with like a, here's a check for this amount, like I
I don't know what that number would have to be to do that.
I've always thought like, would I, what would another job be?
I couldn't, I'm, I was once a runner.
will, I will, I will die a runner.
um
I love it.
Okay.
All right.
You want to go run?
Yeah.
I'm always down.
So Steve, where can people get in contact with you?
Maybe plug into the store and some of the events that you're doing.
Absolutely.
So our website is let's run more.com.
Let's run more.com.
there's two O's and more like my last name.
And we use that handle for Instagram, for Twitter.
So that's usually a good way to find us.
Our YouTube page is just run more.
So if you just search up at run more, you'll find us on YouTube.
And if you have to find yourself in the greater Westminster Maryland area, as I say, my
stupid YouTube videos, stop by and say hi.
We're right here on Main Street in downtown beautiful Westminster.
Did I hear something about a
Oh no, that's just one of my friends over here mocking me.
No, my favorite my favorite all-time book is called Once a Runner and I've been talking
about getting a tattoo from that book at some point in my life.
Yeah, and the amount of information that you know about running, I'm sure the audience
will love a book that comes from you.
Thank you so much, Steve.
This conversation was amazing.
And yeah, maybe we'll shop around, see some good sneaks.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate the time.