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One of the best things about art is how it represents the human condition. Movies in particular have a unique ability to comment on hot topic issues in a way that can be thought provoking and challenging. Interestingly, there are plenty of movies in existence that contain some aspect of mentorship; an older figure guiding the next generation into adulthood. This week John and Zach kick off a new series about mentoring seen in different movies. In discussing Dead Poets Society this week, they talk through different aspects of mentoring including respecting parents, creating unique experiences, and knowing your influence.
Purchase John's Book:
Mephibosheth! The Search for Identity, Purpose, and Community
Purchase John's Book:
Mephibosheth! The Search for Identity, Purpose, and Community
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. Learn more at you can mentor.com or follow us on social media. You can mentor. Our main man, mister John Bernard has released a book entitled Mephibosheth, The Search for Identity, Purpose and Community. It's an amazing book and I know it will encourage you and your fellow mentors.
Speaker 1:While you're at it, pick up my book, You Can Mentor, How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission and Break Generational Curses. You can find both of these resources on Amazon or on our website. Lastly, follow us on social media. Listen to the podcast and share everything you find valuable with your mentoring friends. We're here for you, and we wanna add value in whatever way we can.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. You can mentor. We here at You Can Mentor are toying around with the idea of having a mentoring gathering or conference where mentoring leaders can come, get encouraged and equipped as they lead their ministries. Our goal in this is to create a safe and fun environment where mentors can share stories of struggles and successes while bonding together with their mentoring team and other mentoring leaders all across the country. If you lead a team of mentors and are interested in learning more about this gathering, please reach out to us.
Speaker 1:We'd love to pick your brain on how to create a gathering that best serves you and your team. Since this is our 1st year doing it, we want as much input as possible to create the best experience as possible. Thanks. You can mentor. Mentoring leaders, are you looking for a place to discuss important mentoring issues with other people who are passionate about mentoring?
Speaker 1:If so, let me introduce You Can Mentored Learning Labs, a monthly call with other mentoring leaders to support each other as we lead mentoring organizations and other mentors. Each call will focus on a topic and allow you to share as well as hear from others on the struggles and successes they have had regarding this specific topic. To sign up, please reach out to zachgarza@zach@youcanmentor.com, or find us on social media. Thank you. Remember, you can mentor.
Speaker 2:You Can Mentor is a podcast about mentoring, all things mentoring.
Speaker 1:Yep. That's right. We are a mentoring podcast, John. That's what we do.
Speaker 2:Man, I love it.
Speaker 1:Welcome to You Can Mentor. Welcome, Zach. That was the greatest intro ever.
Speaker 2:I'm sitting here in the office of You Can Mentor, Waco, Texas. I hope it's okay that I gave that location.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 2:I don't think anyone's gonna come after me. The wonderful September morning. Here we are in the corner under the banner.
Speaker 1:Guys, we are this is our 2nd attempt to be on YouTube, and we're just fumbling through it. It's just we don't even know what we're doing.
Speaker 2:I think what you're doing, Zach, if can I call you Zach? I think what you're doing, Zach, is you're really redefining what it means, though. I think I don't want you to look at it as if we need to be accepted on YouTube. I think that you're I think that you're actually redefining by what you create, why someone would go to YouTube in in the first place.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what that means.
Speaker 2:I think it's something for us to think and pray about. I think you might be onto something. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We are basically gonna take over YouTube. I mean, if I can get 10 followers by the end of the week, my mom's gonna be so proud of me.
Speaker 2:That would be incredible. Does that does it show that? I think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think so. I don't know. I I don't I'm not a I'm not a YouTuber.
Speaker 2:Well, from what I understand, what you do is you get the followers, and then do you get the the the advertisers coming to you?
Speaker 1:And then I make $1,000,000,000? I
Speaker 2:think so. I
Speaker 1:think I think it's just that simple.
Speaker 2:Yeah. How many people watch what's going on?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because there's so many people out there
Speaker 2:You haven't lost any followers, I'm sure, just during this conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I know. Alright. Well, today we're doing something new, John. Now this is your baby.
Speaker 1:This is yours, man.
Speaker 2:It really is.
Speaker 1:So tell us about it.
Speaker 2:I fought for this thing, didn't I? You did. And it's happening right now.
Speaker 1:You've been fighting for
Speaker 2:it for months. Well, I'm intrigued by the idea of as we as mentors, as we take in media. Right? Songs that we hear shows that we watch movies.
Speaker 1:Books. Books that we read. Yeah. Books.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Those are media.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Those are media.
Speaker 2:Those are those things are media ish. Well, you know, Zach, as you as you know, everything that we the mentor is one who should be equipped and encouraged. Mhmm. It's really the point of you can mentor to put resources in in the hands of mentors because it is a tough and and valuable job. And so I am just excited for us to look at some movies that speak into some of the very principles that we talk about as mentors.
Speaker 2:And the idea is that as we watch film right now, we're bringing it up a notch as we watch film. We wanna we wanna be able to to draw from some of these principles that we think, you know what? I gotta remember that. I've I've gotta remember maybe that's something that I can apply into this mentor mentee relationship, or it's it's at least something that I should just remember that, you know, most of the things in life that are hard are are are worth doing.
Speaker 1:And both John and I love movies, so this is good. Yeah. This is this is helpful. I told my wife at 8:15 on Sunday night, I was like, hey, sweetie, I have to work. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:And she's like, what are you talking about? And I was like, I have to watch a movie. And she laughed at me, but here we are. And I watched this movie that we're gonna talk about, and I gleaned a lot from it. And I've been chewing on it ever since.
Speaker 2:Do you feel like it was kinda still relevant? It was amazing. Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So this these podcasts are called we're not a 100% sure yet, but we're going with
Speaker 2:Working title.
Speaker 1:Mentoring at the movies?
Speaker 2:Mentoring at the movies. I like that. Yeah. Some alliteration there.
Speaker 1:That's great. M m.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And there's there's there are some of those films that we say, those are mentor movies. But, also, Zach, I wanna challenge your thinking in this. There are some movies out there that we don't really consider to be mentoring movies, but I think that that that there really are some some real nuggets, man, some real pearls that we can draw from those films. And so sometimes we'll look at some real obvious movies, but we we might look at something where you thought, you know what?
Speaker 2:I've never thought about that being a mentor film. And then that's when we come back at you and we say, you know what? You're right. You weren't thinking. That's why we're thinking.
Speaker 2:That's why we're here.
Speaker 1:Is to think.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Is to that's why we exist. So I think that it's a neat opportunity maybe for us as creators of content to connect with those who are out there in the fields doing their work. Yeah. And we're we're here to equip them and we're here to encourage them.
Speaker 1:In all seriousness, our job is just to help you think of mentoring, think of investing into the next generation, making disciples in just a new way. And if we can do that through a Bible verse, if we can do that through a podcast, if we can do that through a movie, through a song, whatever we have to do to help you stay equipped and encouraged in your mentoring relationship, we wanna do that.
Speaker 2:If we can write a song together, a duet, and then produce that and put that out in the world. Next level. Maybe that's something we can do.
Speaker 1:We're definitely going to do that.
Speaker 2:Now I did mention we want to be loose and goose about this, right? Loose
Speaker 1:and goose?
Speaker 2:We want to be loosey goosey about this.
Speaker 1:We wanna be loose and goose.
Speaker 2:What if we that might we might wanna pitch that for some nicknames.
Speaker 1:Who's, loose and whose goose?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:You're loose. I'm goose for sure.
Speaker 2:Listen, what I was thinking about though, is that we wanna present this and and maybe even as before we begin talking about this movie today, we do, we pause for a moment to say, if you haven't seen this film, go ahead and watch that first. It's going to make it much more enjoyable as we kind of have a conversation about some of these concepts.
Speaker 1:Right. So today's movie is dead poet society, correct? It was created when? Late eighties?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think it was a late eighties film. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It stars Ethan Hawke and Robin Williams
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And a couple other guys that I haven't seen since, but it really is a tremendous movie.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna give this a quick synopsis though. How does that sound?
Speaker 1:5000 foot view it.
Speaker 2:Okay. Dead Poets Society. It's a, it's a, the story of a new English teacher. All right. Named John Keating is introduced to an all boys preparatory school that's known for its ancient traditions and high standards.
Speaker 2:Alright. Which gives us a little bit of irony here that we're gonna discuss in a moment. He uses unorthodox methods to reach out to his students who face enormous pressures from their parents and the school. With Keating's help, students like Neil, Todd, who you mentioned, and others learn to break out of their shells, pursue their dreams, and seize the day. Carpe Diem.
Speaker 2:Carpe Diem. It's good. Listen. You don't discuss your tattoos very often. No.
Speaker 2:But I I just it just dawned on me. Do you don't you have a carpe diem kinda somewhere lower back? I thought you had a carpe diem tattoo. Is that not right? Like, cold back?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What is this? Spring break 2001?
Speaker 2:I didn't know if this was a memory of a conversation that we had had or maybe a dream that I had. You were kinda wearing a crop top. Some you know, like the football players. Like, the what the football players did.
Speaker 1:Was I was I in South Padre Island drinking a Keystone Light?
Speaker 2:Maybe a Zima?
Speaker 1:No. I don't have a carbetiem tattoo. But if someone was to have a carbetiem tattoo, it would probably be me.
Speaker 2:Okay. Yeah. It's a good reminder.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Take advantage of today because you don't even know if you're gonna have tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Well, that's that's the synopsis of this film. I had watched it a couple of weeks ago. You just watched it a couple of days ago. And so what's what did you think?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's a it's a really thought provoking movie. And kinda like what John said, there's a professor, mister Keating, and mister Keating comes into the school that is just I mean, it is just old school, like old men teaching these boys how to be successful. How to go to Harvard, how to go to Yale, how to get a good job, and how to make a ton of money. But what what mister Keating does is he comes in, and he opens up new opportunities, and he gets these boys to think.
Speaker 1:Could there be a different way? And instead of what do my parents want me to do? Or what does society, what does this world want me to do? He turns it around and says, what do you want? What gets you going in the morning?
Speaker 1:What makes you alive? And what these kids begin to understand is that they have an opportunity to think for themselves. And if they like something, if they have a passion to pursue that, even if it doesn't make sense, even if it's not what their parents want, even if it won't make them successful in the eyes of this world. And just to watch these teenage boys just struggle through this and get the courage to do what the Lord has put in their heart and to pursue those things that they want, it's super fascinating.
Speaker 2:So one of the very first lessons I think that Keating brings up to the young men is with the poem of Gather Ye Rosebuds, Gather Ye Rosebuds, right? As you may, this idea that we are not promised tomorrow. So time is fleeting. So don't waste today. Going back to that seize the day, this is really kind of the first lesson that he begins to share in a very unorthodox way that he isn't as he, as he is investing in these young men.
Speaker 1:I think I think what you're talking about is that very first scene when the the students meet doctor Keating, mister Keating, doctor Keating, Keating. Mhmm. They just meet him for the first time. And what I love about that meeting is he is unorthodox. He is unusual.
Speaker 1:He is doing things that no other teacher on that campus is doing. And what that got me thinking was just the fact that he was different. I bet those kids never forgot that first day with mister Keating. And so what I took away as a mentor is if I can make a meeting with my mentee memorable, if I can make it unique, if I can make it different, then there's a better chance they're going to remember it. So like mister Keating, what he did was it was the very first day of class, and instead of sitting in the room and talking about the syllabus and things like that, he took them on like a it was like a little tiny field trip, and they went downstairs, and they saw a picture of students who went to the school back in the 1800, and started talking about how each and every person in this picture is now dead.
Speaker 1:And that's where he talked about seize the day. Right. And that that got me thinking. I'm like, okay. How can I apply this to my mentoring relationships?
Speaker 1:It is how how can I just put a little bit of effort in changing up the environment? Right? Or how can I take my mentee to do something that they've never done? Or to see the world in a way that they haven't ever seen it before? One thing that I loved is after they got done, 2 of the 2 of the students were talking, and they asked, hey, tell me what you thought about mister Keating.
Speaker 1:And I think it was Neil. I think it was Ethan Hawke. He said, it was weird, but different. And I'm like, man, if I can get my mentee to continue to chew on our conversation, to continue to think about it after we've met, I think that that's a win. So
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think that also it's just to piggyback on what you're talking about, especially even this time of year, there might be some new mentor, mentee relationships taking place with the school you're starting again. And I know that I've gone into an environment at a school sometimes as the mentor, you know, being able to go meet with a student. And I kind of find even the, the atmosphere a little bit overwhelming. You know, if you've ever gone, like, done the typical youth minister kind of thing at lunchtime, you know, and you're just in a room of with 100 or 1000 of teenagers.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. It's terrifying. And
Speaker 2:it begins yeah.
Speaker 1:It is the most terrifying thing I've ever done in my life.
Speaker 2:It's a very insecure kind of feeling and you go into it. I think that what what a neat reminder, Zach, that you bring up in this kind of first meeting is that Keating was in himself, I think, so focused to be able to share a really good lesson that he instead of just kinda needing to feel accepted and needing to to understand that, oh, I'm here at the school, and I'm with these people that I don't know. And I don't wanna, you know, I don't wanna mess this up. I don't I want them to like me, whatever else he could have he could have thought about. Instead, he's he really kept his eye on the ball to say, this is what I want them to walk away from with a new perspective, with this idea that I have in a creative way to teach a lesson.
Speaker 2:And so mentor, just remember that when we get those opportunities to kind of initiate that relationship, just as you mentioned, it's about what do I really want this person to kind of glean from our time together and stay focused on that and that make that a memorable meeting and stay focused on really what you want to teach and know that that's going to be a good thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Just like the security that he walked in because he taught in a way that no one else had ever taught before at that school. The amount of security and confidence that he had to have to say, I'm going to do it a different way, even though the way that the school had previously done it was successful. I think his new ways of teaching kind of asked the question, but what is success? Because if success is just making good grades and going to Harvard and getting a good job, well, that isn't creating a young man who is open to think how he wants to think, or open to pursue something that maybe might not make him like a ton of money.
Speaker 1:And so it's very fascinating. Like I find myself, when I'm spending time with people who I'm trying to mentor, trying to invest into, sometimes I feel like the Lord put something on my heart. Like, okay, I need to like really speak into this guy's life, or I need to encourage him. I need to call him up, but for some reason, I'm timid, and I don't do what I feel like God's calling me to do because of fear. And it kind of makes me think of that verse about like the Lord didn't give us a spirit of humidity, but he gave us a spirit of power.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, man, like, that's what those students experienced in the classroom that day with gating, was just power.
Speaker 2:Right. Right. And that and that was overwhelming for some. Yeah. And they kinda didn't know how to how to how to deal with that, how to respond to it, and that's gonna happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, those that I'll you know, you often find that those that are comfortable in their own skin can sometimes be it it can sometimes be a a difficulty for those that aren't. But I think that it's all the more reason why we should be people of confidence in our purpose, right, in our identity. And that's what the mentor gets to do with the mentee is be someone that is living their life out loud in such a way where that mentee can say, you know, I haven't yet achieved that place in life, but, man, this that's how I wanna live my life when I'm when I'm that age. Right?
Speaker 2:Or that's how I wanna be living my life even today, making some of those decisions based on this person, just having a confidence about who they are, knowing who they are, and and unapologetically living that out loud.
Speaker 1:I was talking to someone, and this was last week maybe, and I just asked him a question like, hey, how did you get to know Jesus? And she said, I was in college at Texas, and I was just, you know, sophomore, and I'd been going to church my whole life, and I was a really good kid. But then I met this guy on campus, and we sat down one day for coffee, and he started asking me questions that no one had the courage to ever ask me. Questions like, tell me about your past, or what was the hardest time that, you know, you have ever experienced, or question about do I feel loved, or do I feel accepted. And she said just being in this guy's midst, like, just being with him made her have to ask a lot of really hard questions.
Speaker 1:Like, how come I'm not like that, or how come I've never been asked these kinds of questions? And just kinda like what I was saying, anytime you can get a mentee to think about things that they've never thought about before, I think I think that that's a win. So
Speaker 2:Absolutely. So in the film then, we have Keating really making an impression on them from the beginning. We have one of the students, I think, they go and they and they wanna find out about this guy. Okay? What's his story?
Speaker 2:Yeah. And they go get a yearbook from Wheaton. I believe that's the name of the school because that's where Keating had gone when he was their age. And so and this is where they they discover his class picture and that he was a member of something that was called the Dead Poets Society. Okay.
Speaker 2:So then they find out more from maybe another book and it actually lists what it means to be a member of the Dead Poets Society. And this is what I think is interesting. Again, these are students at a prep school that honors tradition and these values and this idea of being a part of something bigger than yourself. Right? Now thinking about Keating's experience and being a part of this group, and the students begin to really be drawn to that.
Speaker 2:Right? And this is where we kinda start thinking about this idea of what it means to be representative of or or to be a part of of something that is that is beyond just who they are. And we all need that. Right? We all wanna be a part of something that that speaks into not only who we are, but also, like, what we do.
Speaker 2:How can we be just a part of something that is that is worth us giving ourselves to it? And so this is true of our faith. This is true of sports teams that we that we like to be a part of. I mean, their their life is full of kind of these groups that we want to, at at certain times, kinda be lumped into so that we can enjoy that and and find that, you know, that that value of tradition. So I thought that it was an interesting juxtaposition here between, you know, the Wheaton administrators saying, well, this is how we've always done things.
Speaker 2:We're not going to teach these students in this very unorthodox way where the students themselves are actually responding to and enjoying this act of of being a part of something, even if it's stealing off in the night and going into the caves, you know, to read poetry. They're valuing the the component of team here and of being a member of Dead Poets Society. So so what they're being criticized for and not toeing the line, you know, of the school, they're actually really finding in a very vibrant way, in a very passionate way with forming and maybe reforming this group of the Dead Poets Society that they were introduced to by that mentor of Keating.
Speaker 1:Right. And I I think one thing that's so fascinating, I I think it's one of the very first scenes whenever the kids are in their dorm room, and it's the first day at Wilton. Wilton is the name of the school on Wheaton. Wheaton's up in Chicago.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. It's a business school, isn't it?
Speaker 1:I think it's a religious school.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Because it was founded by Billy Graham. It's got something to do with it maybe. Really? I could be way off. Let's have
Speaker 2:your fact finder take a look at that.
Speaker 1:Anyone went to Wheaton, please send us an email and tell us what Wheaton is. But they're in the dorm room, and one of the students, it was Neil. He wants to write in the yearbook, and his dad comes in and says, you're not gonna do that. And his son's like, but dad, I like the yearbook. And the dad is pretty much like, this isn't gonna help you be successful.
Speaker 1:You're not doing it. And the dad leaves, and one of Neil's one of his buddies says, why why doesn't he let you do what you want? And then Neil says, it doesn't matter. I don't care about any of it. And I think that that speaks to some of our kids today, not all of them, but some of our kids, they feel like they don't have a say.
Speaker 1:And sometimes when kids don't feel like they have a say, they get apathetic, and they just don't care. And this film really is super fascinating to me, because there's a part of me as a parent that I'm like, I want my kids to focus on what matters to be successful. Like, I wouldn't mind if my kid know, got a scholarship to Yale. And then the fact that, like, you're investing money to send your kid to this high performing school. But then you've got this guy, mister Keating, who is going rogue, and he's teaching these kids things that the parents didn't sign up for.
Speaker 1:And I just don't know what I think about that. And it makes me ask a question as a mentor. I'm like, man, if I'm ever doing anything that my mentee's parents don't approve of, I I don't know if that's a great idea. And so tell me what you think about that.
Speaker 2:Are you telling me that you're watching this movie now with a different lens?
Speaker 1:Because I'm a parent?
Speaker 2:Yeah. For sure. And you pay for stuff?
Speaker 1:I do pay for things. I pay for my kids to go to private school. But, like, it's I don't know what to do because I'm like, I do want my kids to be able to pursue what they love, and I do want them to be able to think for themselves, but at the same time, I want them to be quote unquote successful, and to go to college, and to make money.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, this guy Keating, like, I bet if I was a parent, I wouldn't like him.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Mhmm. So here's where I kinda find, like, the the internal dilemma It's and maybe the the problem. Yeah. And I don't let me see if I can remember this correctly, Zach, because you just watched it recently.
Speaker 2:But I remember watching it, and and this is where I get bugged because I think it was, again, the deal the deal is with Neil and his dad. And there's a point where Neil says, oh, I'm gonna be in this play. I can't wait to be in this play. Alright. And then if I'm not mistaken, he's having a conversation with mister Keating and mister Keating asks either, have you talked to your dad or are you going to talk to your dad?
Speaker 2:And, and Neil agrees to, he, he agrees to, to let his dad know what's going on. And, and then I think later in the, in the movie you discover, obviously that he didn't talk to his dad. And so Mr. Keating was operating with the information that he in fact had talked to his dad.
Speaker 1:But I'll say this. While I agree with the advice that he gave Neil in his office Uh-huh. Whenever they talked in the classroom, and mister Keating was like, Neil, how'd that conversation go? Uh-huh. You could see in his eyes that he knew Neil wasn't telling the truth.
Speaker 1:And so, I'm like, man, he should have called him out. Now, of course, like, hindsight, you know, is perfect, but that ultimately Neil ends up taking his own life. And I think back to that part. I'm like, man, if I hadn't of called him out on that, and then he ended up taking his life, that would that would shake me. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I mean, that would destroy me. Sure. The breakdown for me was that there wasn't an avenue of communication between Keating
Speaker 1:and dad and the dad
Speaker 2:that just needed to be there. There, there never needs to be a situation where we put the burden of communication and responsibility on our mentee to say, Hey, did you make sure to talk to your dad about this? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's all covered.
Speaker 1:He's 16. Exactly. Yeah. So so now I get that he's a teacher, you know, at a private school. Excuse me.
Speaker 1:But like, what a great reminder for us as mentors. And as I do get older, and I'm 40, John. I'm 40. I'm a man. I'm 40.
Speaker 1:I've got gray hair. It's coming. I can't wait. You don't have that much gray hair.
Speaker 2:I don't. You're
Speaker 1:about to turn 50.
Speaker 2:I've got a little bit,
Speaker 1:but You are just you're you're a stud.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Okay. So what a great reminder, and especially as I get older that if you're a mentor, you have to build a relationship with with a mom, aunt, dad, whoever the mentee is calling their parent. It's just it's respectful. It's safe. It Like, what is the end goal?
Speaker 1:The end goal is to help the kid thrive. Become all that God has for them to be. And you and your parents need to be on the same team, and you'll have to talk. You have to communicate. You have to pick up the phone.
Speaker 1:I know it's weird. I know it's awkward, but you have to do that because at the end of the day, it is their kin. It is their son. It is their daughter. Like, you just have to communicate well there.
Speaker 2:I agree. I don't think the mentor benefits in any way by in any way being divisive Yes. In that relationship between the parent and child. I think that we always wanna respect that. We always wanna nurture that.
Speaker 2:And there are times when you can't you realize that maybe that's not a healthy relationship or whatever else what other other issues there are. We certainly just don't want the mentor mentee relationship to be another issue in that parent child relationship. We always wanna be an asset, not a liability.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, have you ever seen the movie Honey Boy?
Speaker 2:I have not.
Speaker 1:Honey Boy with Shia Labeouf, Shia Labeouf. I don't know his name. He is a great actor. But there's a scene in that movie. It's a small scene to where it's about an actor who's a child it's about a child actor, and their dad is kind of wild.
Speaker 1:But this kid gets a mentor, and the dad confronts the mentor. And it's a very powerful scene. It is not appropriate, but it really made me think like, man, you're dealing with someone's kid here, and that's a really big responsibility. That's a really big honor, and that's a really big, especially to their parents. It's just a big deal.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's well put.
Speaker 1:I put, you never want to turn a kid against this parent, And man, that's hard. Like, what do you do whenever the parent isn't acting in a way that's godly? And the kid is right in being upset. You know, like, I think we all can watch that film and be like, man, why doesn't Neil's dad just let him do the play? Like, come on, dude.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, like, you as a mentor, you can never side with the kid, because you don't wanna turn them well, I don't wanna say you can never side with the kid. You just gotta walk gently.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Man, it's complicated. It's so complicated.
Speaker 2:Yep. So And I think that's really good, Zach, because that's the reminder. You know, you don't know. If I have an exclusive friendship with my mentee and I'm only hearing from his perspective about what's going on at home, I don't wanna always take that as gospel truth because I realized that I'm getting that through the lens of what my mentee you know, how they're processing everything in their home. And so that's not to say that I want to minimize them or speak down on them or think anything less, but it's just the working knowledge that in all things, there's there's more to the story.
Speaker 2:Yeah. There is for sure. Okay. So that poet society presents this. You know, it's a tragedy with Neil's story.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:100%. Ugh.
Speaker 2:What a terrible thing. And even, you know, as you watch it, like, you know what's coming, and you're just kinda still so bummed that night, right, of the suicide scene and and such a terrible thing. I mean, being a dad and that that he goes in his office to find to find Neil. Ugh. It's rough.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I had a lot of compassion for him. Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, I and this is the thing.
Speaker 1:Like, I get it as a parent. Like, this guy didn't have money. He sacrificed a ton to send his kid to this school because he wanted more than anything for his kid not to have
Speaker 2:the life that he had,
Speaker 1:Which there isn't anything wrong with that. But the way that he was going about it made the kid feel suppressed, made the kid feel like he didn't have a choice, like he, you know, was in prison. But whenever he's holding his son, and he's like my son, my son. I was like, oh my gosh. Like this guy was a grade a jerk for most of the movie, but during that scene, I just had a boatload of compassion.
Speaker 1:Because like all parents, we're just doing the best we can, And so it was that was a tough scene.
Speaker 2:No kidding. No kidding. So that's that's Neil's story. But then also, let's let's kinda talk about Todd's story. Right?
Speaker 2:The Ethan Hawke character, he kinda enters the film. He's younger than everybody else. Right? He doesn't have a voice. He feels just really nervous about, I think, even reading out loud.
Speaker 1:Oh, he's super shy. Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay. And then let's talk about that arc then between that and then really one of the most famous scenes of the movie, right, at the end when kinda everybody has to turn their back on Keating. And and what does what does Todd do?
Speaker 1:Oh, captain. My captain. That's it. So I I think this is great. The movie really focuses in on Neil, and it focuses in on Todd, and it focuses in on Keating.
Speaker 1:Like those are the arcs, and I loved, like from the very beginning of meeting meeting Keating, meeting Keating. Todd, he got something because after the 1st day of class, he went back, and he was writing carpe diem. Mhmm. Like, he was chewing on it. He was thinking about it.
Speaker 1:Like, he couldn't stop thinking about his interaction that day, And I just think that that is so fascinating how we, as mentors, sometimes we don't know the influence we can have on kiddos.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say that, you know, still still waters run deep. Right? And Todd is an example of one of those kids that we don't know what they're getting, but they're getting a lot. And so, you know, it's those quiet ones so often who are just soaking it up always and always learning and always picking up and always listening and always watching everything that we do. And so that's the reminder that that we have these very impressionable students who will remember not only what we say, but how they feel.
Speaker 1:And they don't know how to to talk about their feelings. Mhmm. Like, he didn't know how to express what was going through his mind, and I think that is one thing that we have to remember when dealing with kiddos is just because they're not talking about it doesn't mean they're not thinking about it. And so I mean, because he's a he's a kid who's 16. I loved the meeting in the classroom.
Speaker 1:It was, like, the second second or third time that they were in mister Keating's class. And Keating asked, he says, what will your verse be in the poem of life? And we talk about IPC, right? Identity, purpose, community. And I think IPC runs throughout this whole film.
Speaker 1:Like, what is your identity? Like, the kids went from their parents' identity, like what their parents wanted them to be, what the school wanted them to be, to what they wanted it to be. And then what is their purpose? Well, it's, you know, from the perspective of the parents and from the school, it's to go to an Ivy League school. Like, 75% of people who attend this school go on to the Ivy Leagues.
Speaker 1:That's a big deal. But Keating saying, no. No. No. What is your purp like, what does your heart say your purpose is?
Speaker 1:And then that community, kind of like what you were saying, like being a part of the class, being a part of the dead poet society. Like, these guys sharpened each other up. But in the poem scene, whenever Keating pushes Todd to face his fears, like, Todd's biggest fear in life was speaking. And Keating got him to open up and got him to do it. And he just encouraged him the whole time.
Speaker 1:Like, whenever he has his hand over his eyes, and he's, like, spinning him around and, like, Keating, for the first time in Todd's life, is making Todd do something that he is terrified of. And the whole time he's encouraging him. He's like, just keep on going. Just keep on going. Just say what's on your mind, and it and it's powerful.
Speaker 1:That's a powerful scene. And Keating got got Todd to do something that he didn't think he could do, And he was there. He was gently pushing. Like, just gently. And I loved in one of the scenes, Keating's like, we're all gonna read out loud, and Todd, I know this is your biggest fear.
Speaker 1:And there's something powerful about Keating, like, calling out his fear and being, like, it's okay. Like, he he put it out there into the light. And I feel like when things are in the light, they're not nearly as terrifying as they are when they're in the dark.
Speaker 2:And I think another good point of the mentor knowing the mentee. Right? Like, hey. Yes. I know this.
Speaker 2:I see I've seen this. I know this about you, and I'm and I'm not being I'm not being flippant about it. Right? Like, I'm being careful even though I wanna challenge you to overcome, and I think that's really important too. It's probably a comfort for the mentee to say, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:You're not just being uncareful with me, but instead you're seeing that I can do this. And I think that's I think when it comes to the mentor trying to help the mentee to overcome a fear, it's important to say, hey. I know this scares you. However, you know, I know that you can do it as well. I believe in you.
Speaker 1:Well and there's something to be said that I see this about you, this fear, and I still love you Mhmm. Or I I'm still here with you. And so, like, I've been thinking a ton about the mentor as a guide, the mentor as a shepherd, and like, what a great scene of, like, hey, Todd. This is what you're terrified of, but I am here with you. I'm gonna guide you.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna shepherd you in this together. We can do it. Yeah. It's a big deal. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It's a big especially to a kid who, like, I want you to remember what it was like in junior high, high school. If anyone out there hated to read and the teacher called on you, like, in my life, I mean, I have a stutter, but, like, I can remember I would be paralyzed with fear. Like, there is nothing scarier for me whenever I was 15 for a teacher to call on me. And like, yeah, that's not that, you know, that that that isn't, like, super terrifying now, but back then, it was, like, the biggest deal. So for Todd to say, this is my greatest fear, and for him to say, that's okay.
Speaker 1:I'm still here with you. That that is tremendously powerful. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So listen. Is is it let me just ask you this question because I hadn't really thought about it, but is it a shame that Keating could he have made some decisions throughout this movie that would have made it better for him to to really stay? Because the bummer about it is is that even though this this group of young men were exposed to this character and learned these life lessons, you know, at the end of the movie, he loses his job. And so he is unable to impact classes that would come later. So, I mean, what do we think?
Speaker 2:Is that is it was it inevitable that, listen, this, you know, this free spirit is just not gonna be able to to remain in this position, or could there have been some decisions made on his part that could have maybe kept him there in that in that teaching position?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. So I was talking about it with Sarah. Sarah's my wife. I have
Speaker 2:a wife. She's listening right now.
Speaker 1:Definitely not, but I love her. And so and she brought up this point that I didn't think about. Like, Keating could relate to the boys in a way that no one else could. Like every other professor there was old, and I don't know if they had, you know, if they had gone through the school, but like Keating was younger, and he got it. And I think that's what gave him power is like he could see these boys like, hey.
Speaker 1:I remember what it's like to have mom and dad put so much pressure on you. I remember what it's like to go through all these things. It's not fun. Like, he had been in their shoes, which gave him a unique perspective to to really invest, which is powerful. And so, like, what that taught me is like, as a mentor, like, anytime you can show your mentee that you've experienced what they are experiencing, there's a lot of power there.
Speaker 1:There's power in our testimony. Right? But I also see him, and I'm like, man, he lost his job, and he probably should have. I'm gonna be honest. As of, you know, as a teacher, like you've gotta know, man.
Speaker 1:Like, if you tell these kids about the dead poet society, that they're gonna do that. And just from a, like, trying to keep these kids safe, like, for them to leave campus and to go into a cave, even though that's what I would want to do and that's what I would want With girls. Oh my gosh. With girls. Like, it's you can't put that thought into their head, Keating.
Speaker 1:You have to know better than that. And so I I see him, and I see someone who had a great heart, had good intentions. He was just young, and he was kinda rogue. And he made some choices that I think if he would have been a little bit older or if he would have been married, or if he would have had kids himself, he would have done things a little bit differently. And so that's kind of my thought process.
Speaker 2:Maybe the school should have had a mentoring program where an older instructor within the school was assigned to Keating.
Speaker 1:Well, I yeah. Right? That would be great. Maybe Doctor. Keating could get on this podcast.
Speaker 1:But, like, my big thing is, like, there's a lot of issues. The issues are with the parents. Like, they idolize Ivy League success being a banker, being, you know, da da da. The problems with the school, the school is so hard line and so like, they're so rigid that these kids felt like they were in prison. The issue was with Keating.
Speaker 1:Like, Keating went too far on the other end. Right? Like, if the school was way left, Keating went way right. And so just like with everything, you've gotta find the perfect balance. And I don't think he did that.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. But, like, that is incredibly difficult to do. Balance is hard. What are your thoughts, John? I've talked a lot.
Speaker 1:You're over there. Really? That's a surprise.
Speaker 2:But do you think that there's an imbalance in what we've what we've shared even today? I I don't, ma'am. I don't. I just because everything that you say, man, is just like a nugget, you know, just gold. It's so good.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Look. I I think this is is a really good movie. I think that it's insightful. I think that it I think that, man, you watch this movie well.
Speaker 2:You know, that's good. Even even through hearing your perspective, it helps me remember. And I do think that what's probably most interesting is that as we get old and as we get older, we're let's face it. We we kinda become the dad in the in the movie more so than than, you know, when you watch this, when you first watched this movie, right, it was all about Keating. It was like, man, Robin Williams is hilarious.
Speaker 2:He did the voices and everything, but then you begin to think, oh, wait, you know what? These relationships, we've gotta be careful. We've gotta be careful because they're important here, you know, and and our choices have consequences. So the strength of of that is what really comes out.
Speaker 1:We become the dad. Yeah. Oh my god. You're right. And you
Speaker 2:know what? It was a good point that the filmmaker made to not just be so black and white over, like, good guy, bad guy. Right? Because even back then, you still kind of as you mentioned, you when you begin to feel that compassion, it's like you can't help but feel that at at the loss of his son. You know?
Speaker 2:And you think, well, wait a minute. Was it really all that bad? Because honestly, he never changed his perspective. He never made a promise that he didn't keep. It wasn't like anything like that.
Speaker 2:It was just we knew from the beginning. Oh, you know, here's kind of a hard edge guy, and he asks a lot. He has a high standard, but ultimately, it's because he loves his family. And as you mentioned, this guy works hard. He's you know, he understands the value of of everything that he has, and those are those are good values to have.
Speaker 1:It it begs the question, what is success? And, like, I mean, I'm thinking about this with my own kids. You know? Like, I want my sons and my daughter. I want them to go to college.
Speaker 1:And I want them to get good jobs. And I want them to be educated. And I want them there are so many things that I want for them. And I I sit here today, and I say, well, if my son wants to go and become an actor, I'm totally fine with that. But I promise you, I would not be okay with that.
Speaker 1:And it would stir up all these fears and all these insecurities. And it's the same thing with my mentees. Like, if my mentee says, I wanna become a mechanic, I would probably be like, you should go to college. And, like, yeah, there's a there there's a spot for me to, like, talk about the importance of education and how getting a, you know, education opens up doors and gives you more choices. But at the end of the day, like, it's their life.
Speaker 1:And just like what I was saying, you're a guide. You're a shepherd. You can kinda help help push them, but they're gonna do what they wanna do. And the point of a mentor is to be there no matter what and to support them. And if they make a terrible choice, we're there.
Speaker 1:If they make an awesome choice, we're there. And we're supporting, and, I mean, I'm kinda going off a trail here. But, like, what what is success? Success is letting these mentees know that we love them and that we care about them and that we're there for them no matter what. And that's where faith comes into play.
Speaker 1:God, I believe that you have a plan for this kid's life, And his ways are not my ways. And, God, I believe that you are good. And I believe that you have something for him. And I believe, Lord, that you are in control, not me. And so whenever I say, hey, man.
Speaker 1:Go become a mechanic. Go to art school. I might, in my head, be freaking out, be like, that's a terrible decision. He shouldn't do that, but that's where I have to let go and let God be God. And say, okay, Lord.
Speaker 1:I trust that you've put this in this kid's heart, and you are going to do something with this that's gonna be good. And if he goes to art school and he has a terrible time, well, then sometimes kids have to fail to learn about life. And so I I don't know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2:Listen. I think that in in a in the best of ways, when we look at this character and we look at this film, it reminds us that it's important to answer the question why. Right? That's kinda what Keating was doing as well, is to saying, hey. You know, you only have so much life.
Speaker 2:Live it to the fullest, but also just just know why. Know why you do what you do. And that I think is maybe even goes back to I'll maybe mention one more scene, and that is the infamous, the ripping of the pages. Right? And by the way, can you even watch that scene without thinking about Michael Scott doing the same thing at at business school?
Speaker 2:I just I love it. That became such a a hilarious scene that I was just all I was thinking about was Michael Scott ripping off the pages of the of the business school textbook. But this idea of of saying, just just answer the why. Don't don't do something just because it's the thing to do or just because it's tradition, but always be asking the question as to as to what's what's the result of this? What do I what do I get out of this?
Speaker 2:What's the, you know, what what is the result? And that to me leads our mentees to kind of be responsible in their thinking of saying, hey. I wanna see the big picture of this. Why would I invest my time into this? Because I'm gonna get ultimately, I'm gonna get this out of it.
Speaker 2:That's that's a asking why is always a good a good question to ask. And so to be a challenger or to be kind of an unorthodox teacher, that's what you get to that's what you benefit from that perspective in asking that question.
Speaker 1:So my wife is mentoring a college student right now. And this college student, I mean, she's amazing. She is making awesome grades, hard worker, and she worked at a job at a summer camp. And she's 21, but she's about to graduate college early. And the summer camp asked her to come on full time, and she's having a hard time because she doesn't she doesn't know what to do.
Speaker 1:And she's been talking to Sarah about this, and she's like, I don't know if I should take a gap year. I don't know if I should take the job. I don't know if I should not take the job. Like, I'm just feeling kind of burned out. I feel like I'm young, and I don't know if I want to go into full time, go and go into the full time scene yet.
Speaker 1:And my wife is like, tell me what your gut says. And I think this is important. Like, what is the lord saying? What is your gut saying? What is the holy spirit saying?
Speaker 1:And then to infuse them with the courage to do that. And they kept on talking, and Sarah's like, well or and the girl was like, hey, I think I've got 2 choices. I'm gonna go. I'm going to interview, and if they give me the job, then I'm gonna think that that's God saying that I should take it. And if they don't, then that's that is him saying that I shouldn't take it.
Speaker 1:And my wife said, or they could offer you the job and you could not take it. And she said, I could never do that. But like, what a great opportunity for my wife to be like, hey, like what do you want? Like, you don't have to take the job just because they offer it to you. You need to search your heart, and you need to see what is it that you really want to do.
Speaker 1:And then this is the hard part. Have the courage to actually do it. Despite what your parents say, despite what society says, despite what you think you should do, what is it that you want to do? What is the lord calling you to do? And that's a big lesson.
Speaker 1:Maybe one of the biggest lessons.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm I am an adult, and I still have a hard time with that. So Right. I was talking to one of my friends. I was like, what is success? Well, success in the eyes of the lord is obedience.
Speaker 1:It's to do what he's asking you to do. I think we can never forget that. As mentors, as parents, as followers, what is the Lord asking our mentees to do? What is the Lord asking us to do today?
Speaker 2:Amen. Ultimately, success is obedience. That's it. Dead Poets Society.
Speaker 1:Man, great movie. Thank you. Yeah. I'm gonna be honest. I didn't really ever like Dead Poets Society until you talked me into
Speaker 2:it. Really? Yeah. So here I am.
Speaker 1:I'm a believer.
Speaker 2:Well, I hope that we have some some new believers out there as well that they'll take the time to watch this movie and Yeah. And to maybe think some of the thoughts that we've ingrained into their heads.
Speaker 1:Yeah. If you're a part of an organization, nonprofit, church, anyone who's mentoring in a group, if y'all wanna watch this together, and then talk about it, that would be cool. That would be nice bonding. Good idea. It would really give you all something to talk about.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. So anything that gets us talking about how to be a better mentor is a good thing.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:IMO, since we're in my opinion. Mhmm. I
Speaker 2:I am HO.
Speaker 1:What does that mean?
Speaker 2:In my honest opinion?
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, I guess you could toss any word in there. Alright. Well, that was good. Mentoring at the Movies, take 1. Mentoring at the
Speaker 2:Movies, episode 1. Episode 1. In the books.
Speaker 1:Yep. In the books. Hey.
Speaker 2:And we just wanna remind you, you can mentor.