The HVAC Cash‑Flow Rollercoaster (And How to Stabilize It)

Seasonal slowdowns are part of HVAC — but panic doesn’t have to be.

In this episode of HVAC Full Blast, hosts Mary Carter and Stephen Ross dig into what really happens to HVAC businesses during shoulder season and slower months — and how smart owners keep revenue moving without cutting the wrong things.

Drawing from real ownership experience and conversations with contractors across the country, they discuss:

• Why HVAC revenue is rarely linear — and why that’s normal
• Common mistakes companies make when things slow down
• Smarter ways to stabilize cash flow without eroding margins
• How to use existing customers, marketing, and staffing strategically
• Why protecting your people and your process matters most in slow periods

This episode is a practical, honest look at navigating the ups and downs of HVAC ownership — and building a business that can weather every season.

Interested in becoming a Trane dealer? Visit us at partners.trane.com to learn more about how you can partner with a leader in HVAC innovation. Explore opportunities to elevate your business and stay ahead in the market with Trane!

Creators and Guests

Host

Mary Carter

Mary Carter is a seasoned sales and marketing leader with over six years at Trane Technologies, currently serving as Regional Sales Manager. With a strong foundation in RHVAC, consumer finance, and strategic account management, Mary brings valuable insights and real-world experience to every conversation.

Host

Stephen Ross

Stephen Ross is a dynamic sales trainer and leadership coach with over nine years at Sandler Training. A former HVAC business owner, Stephen combines his technical knowledge with proven sales expertise, offering a unique perspective on what it takes to succeed in the RHVAC industry.

Producer

Jessica Blair

Jessica Blair is a Senior Learning Manager at Trane Technologies' Residential HVAC unit. With 20+ years of experience in learning and development, she designs and markets blended learning programs to enhance customer learning and align with business goals.

Editor

Kerianne O'Donnell

Kerianne O'Donnell is the Digital Learning Manager at Trane Technologies and serves as the editor of the HVAC Full Blast podcast. With a background in graphic design and a strong passion for developing digital learning experiences, Kerianne brings her creative expertise to the podcast, delivering engaging and impactful content to listeners.

What is HVAC Full Blast?

HVAC Full Blast is your bi-weekly dose of HVAC business growth, powered by Trane. Hosted by Mary Carter (Trane Technologies) and Stephen Ross (Sandler), this podcast is built for residential HVAC dealers who want to scale their business, sharpen their sales, and lead with confidence.

Tune in for expert interviews, dealer success stories, and practical tips on pricing, service agreements, workforce development, and more. Whether you're in the field or in the office, HVAC Full Blast helps you stay ahead in a competitive market.

Interested in becoming a Trane Dealer? Visit our website at https://partners.trane.com/

We'd love your feedback and suggestions on future episodes. Please email us at [e-mail].

This podcast channel is for general informational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed in these episodes are those of the panelists and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Trane Technologies. Trane Technologies makes no warranty or guarantee concerning accuracy or completeness of the content presented in this webinar.

Trane does not provide tax, legal, or accounting advice. This material is for informational purposes only and it should not be relied on for tax, legal, or accounting advice. Tax law is subject to continual change. All decisions are your responsibility and you should consult your own tax, legal, and accounting advisors. Trane disclaims any responsibility for actions taken on the material presented.

All trademarks referenced are the trademarks of their respective owners. ©2025 Trane. All Rights Reserved.

If you've ever felt the
pressure of shoulder season,

when revenue dips,
expenses don't,

and every decision
feels heavier,

this episode is for you.

Today, we're digging into real
world strategies HVAC companies used

to survive slow months,
protect their teams,

and come out stronger
on the other side.

Let's get started.

Welcome back to another fun
filled episode of HVAC Full

Blast.

My name is Mary Carter.

I'm Stephen Ross.

And it's been a while.

If you can believe it, at
the time of this recording,

we have put twenty
episodes under our belt.

Can you believe it?

It's exciting. It's been a
lot of fun. I, I wasn't sure.

I've never done
a podcast before,

so I was a podcast rookie.

And, but it's been a lot of
fun. We've had great guests.

I mean, that's been half the fun
is just picking people's brains

that know a lot
about our industry.

I know.

If you had told me at the
start of this idea that we would have

twenty or more episodes, I would
have looked at you sideways.

I probably did look at
people sideways about this.

Nice.

And it's very cool to do
the podcast for HVAC Pulse

Blast and for Train.

We were so thrilled
to be asked to do it.

I was a podcast rookie
in the host seat.

I guess I've been interviewed
for some internal learning kind

of podcast, but truth be told,

I really had never done
this much in terms of, like,

an audio environment.

So that's been really fun.

How about Irish Step Dance?

Were you ever on an
Irish Step Dance podcast?

Haven't haven't done that.

Although this is slowly becoming
an Irish Step Dance podcast.

So

we can change the
intro music, I'm sure.

And yeah, jiggy with it.

Yeah, that'd be great.

If our listeners don't know
what we're talking about,

it's because they missed one of
our earlier episodes where we

talked about Mary's background
in Irish step dancing.

But we maybe should kind of
reintroduce ourselves since we

are twenty episodes in.

So Mary, one of the questions I
ask people a lot of times if I'm

doing a training class,

because usually it's
salespeople that work for

heating and air companies.

So my question usually
is something like this.

Are you a heating
and air person?

Meaning you started out in
heating and air and then you

got into sales or are you a
salesperson and then you got

into heating and air?

So maybe I could just kinda
reask you that question, Mary.

Are you a salesperson that
got into heating and air?

Are you a heating and air
person that got into sales?

Great question. I love that. I
might steal that going forward.

I'm a salesperson that got
into heating and air for sure.

I have sold many
things from lattes

that's different
coffee shops to gym

memberships, to

NFL season ticket packages
and seat license rights and

power tools and then
heating and air.

So I sort of subscribed to,

let me go sell things that I
don't know anything about and

I'll figure it out.

Nice. Nice.

And how long have you so and
you've been with Trane for for

your whole stint in the
heating and air world.

And it's like so what what's your
how'd you get your foot in the door?

And then what's been
your career progression?

Great question. I love that.

So I got my foot in the door.

It's one of my favorite stories,

I was living in North Carolina.

And at the time I was working a
job that didn't pay very well.

And I actually had two other
jobs on the side to kind of do

all the fun things that I
wanted to do in my free time.

And I was going to this
gym that I was actually writing

blog posts for and cleaning
bathrooms for so that I could

afford my membership.

And I noticed that the clients
that were working out during

their lunch break all drove
really nice cars and they all

had really nice families.

They all seemed to kind of like
come to the gym in a huddle and

then they would work out
and then they would leave

altogether and go back
to campus to go to work.

And I was just struck by that.

Like what kind of job do they
have that they can do this?

And so I asked one of the
guys in the group, Hey,

where do you guys work?

And it was a company
in North Carolina and I

networked with him.

He happened to be the vice president
of HR for the entire enterprise.

And that enterprise later
became Trane Technologies.

Networked with people who
I envied their lifestyle.

And that's how I ended
up in heating and air.

So if that tells you,

if you're sitting in heating
and air right now feeling like,

man, it's just not that cool.

No, it's very cool.

And people are
looking at you saying,

I wish I could get some
of that. Because that was me.

Nice.

Same questions back to you.

Heating and air then sales or
sales then heating and air?

Well, here's how
I got into sales.

I went to college and studied

Russian language and didn't
have a real good plan on what I

was gonna do with that and
got my CDL in college and

was driving a tractor
trailer during the summer.

And the company that I
was driving the truck for,

they were like, hey, Stephen,
you read and write in English.

And I was like, yeah.

And they were like,

you get the customers to sign
the paperwork in the right

spot every time on
your deliveries?

And I'm like, yeah.

They're like, we think
you belong in sales.

And I was like, I don't
even know what sales is,

but I don't have anything else
coming out of college, so why not?

And so that's how I got into
sales was working for this

trucking company.

But it was it was a moving
and storage company.

And interestingly enough,
the sales process,

you you go to somebody's
house to get ready to move.

They're interviewing three or four
different moving companies typically.

You gotta walk through
the whole house.

You gotta talk to them
about all their stuff,

and then you gotta work
out a proposal for them.

And the company I work for
typically more expensive than a

lot of our competitors.

So that kind of in home
residential sales experience

helped me out a lot.

Fast forward about ten years
later and was very involved in

the Chamber of Commerce in
Columbia, South Carolina.

We did a service project that
I helped coordinate And part of

that service project was
working with a small orphanage

that that housed like kids
that wouldn't fit into a

bigger orphanage.

Like a lot of them had
emotional disorders or whatnot.

So it's a it's basically a
group home with about eight

bedrooms for eight kids.

And as part of our chamber
of commerce project,

one of the things that happened
was the heating and air got

gutted and removed and
replaced all that kind stuff.

And the heating and air company
that did all the work that was

involved in the chamber,
they're like, hey.

We need a sales guy.

And I'm like, don't know
anything about heating and air.

And they're like, well,
we could teach you that.

So that was kinda how I got into sales
and then also into heating and air.

It was just through
a service project.

Oh, wow. See?

So envying lifestyle,
service, good works, you know,

lots of different ways
to be led to water.

Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, that's great.

Well, so we, that's a
little bit about who we are.

We've obviously really
enjoyed doing the podcast and

I think that maybe as we're
leading into this topic here,

I'm kind of feeling like the
natural order of things, right?

Like we hit the ground running,

we had really great topics
and guests and we're fired up.

And then as with time
naturally kind of that

shoulder comes in, we're okay.

Now we're kind of like
running our rhythm and we,

I wouldn't say we're
on autopilot by any means,

but we kind of know the lay
of the land, so to speak.

And now it's kind of time to
like lean in and do a little

bit more work to keep
this thing running well.

So we see that happening
with our customers

and their businesses as well.

And normally what I'm referring
to here is the shoulder season

in HVAC where maybe that
slowdown time in the

spring and the fall kind of
turns into when you can plan

or ramp things up, but it also
can turn into a really scary

time when things ramp down.

And now we're sweating because
I don't know where revenue is

coming in and my people are
still expecting payroll.

Yeah. Yeah.

I got another story for you.

So here's here's how I owned
a heating and air company.

Are you ready for this story?

So I became a client
of Sandler Training

back in two thousand eight.

So I was working for this
small heating and air company,

and I was making about seventy
five thousand dollars a year.

My wife at the time
was a school teacher,

and she was making, I don't
know, thirty five grand a year.

So combined income,

about a hundred and ten
thousand dollars a year,

and we had two kids.

And she comes home one day and
she's like, hey. I hate my job.

I hate teaching.

I'm gonna quit, and we're
gonna have another kid.

And I was like, wow. Okay.

So all of a sudden, I've
got to make up thirty five,

forty grand a year of her
income that we're about to lose,

and now our expenses are going up
because we're having another kid.

So I became a client
of Sandler Training.

I was like, I gotta learn
how to actually sell.

I had been in sales
for about ten years,

but it never really made more
than eighty grand in a year.

And after about three
years of being a client

of Sandler, my sales tripled.

So that that was huge for me.

And then I became
a Sandler trainer.

Well, fast forward a few years
and I had a guy call me and

it was a friend of mine.

I knew him for a few years
and he calls and says, hey.

Wanna hire you to do sales training
for my small heating and air company.

And I was like, okay.

So I went and met with him,

small company doing about
a million six in revenue

with about a dozen employees.

And he had two problems.

One problem was none of his
employees were worth training.

That was a big problem.

And then the other problem
was he didn't have any money.

I mean, the margins
were so slim and he

was having such a tough time
just paying bills in general.

That's why he needed
sales training,

but he also couldn't
afford sales training.

So he's like, you know,
I'm like, well, you know,

if you don't have any money
to pay me, like, I mean,

it's good conversation,
but good luck.

I mean, I you know,
what what can you do?

So I was kinda kidding around.

We had that same conversation
once every couple of months for

about six months.

And and finally joking around,
I was like, you know what?

Just sell me half your company.

I'll handle sales and marketing.

He was an engineer,
he had an MBA,

I'll handle it because
you can't handle it.

And then you don't have
to hire a consultant.

So a couple months goes by and
he calls me back and he's like,

hey,

I'd like to take you
up on your offer.

I'm like, what offer
are you talking about?

Like, I don't even remember.

So he's like, the one where
you buy half my company.

So that's how I got into owning
a heating and air company.

I was already a sales
trainer, Sandler trainer,

then all of a sudden,

I owned half of a
heating and air company.

So here's why I share
that with you, Mary,

is that the numbers are very
different if you're just a

service technician, if you're
just a residential salesperson

for a heating and air company.

The way the numbers work versus
being an owner of a heating and

air company, that's a big shift.

And I didn't realize
that going into it.

So question of like,

what do you do in the
slow time is it's crazy

when you own the company.

Let me just kind of put
it that way. That's tough.

Yeah. I mean, can
imagine. Right?

And I can, I bet the

want to just slash
everything pull it all back,

pull back the ads, pull
back the marketing,

anything ancillary,
get it on out of here?

No more pizza Friday.

Cut it all back.

And that can then create
another swirling storm

of fear amongst your employees.

Are we in trouble now?

And I can just kind of almost
see like a lightning strike

that's growing of disaster like

emotions when really, you know,
as the captain of the ship,

kind of got to remain calm.

Right?

Like, and, and be finding
another way to accomplish the

goal, which is get revenue.

So maybe from your experience,

what were some ways that
you saw that go right?

Yeah.

Well, think, yeah, there's two
things that come into play.

One is, are there some
costs you can cut certainly?

And then others are, hey,

could you get creative in
terms of revenue sources?

So to give you an example,

if I was a sales guy
for heating air company,

a lot of times the amount of
money that I would make in

March is maybe half the amount
of money that I could make in

July. Right?

But generally speaking,

if you can budget well and
learn to live on it and so on,

like, you can probably still
pay your bills in March.

You just you know,

maybe maybe you gotta put
something on a credit card here

or there, but but
it's not that bad.

Owning a heating
and air company,

what would happen
to us is, you know,

we went from roughly
two million in revenue

to five or six years later,
we're at like ten million,

then going to twelve
million in revenue.

And so what would happen
would be we would have a

breakeven point where
we had to do, let's say,

nine hundred thousand
dollars in a month,

and that's breakeven.

So the company makes zero if we do
nine hundred thousand in revenue.

If we do eight hundred
thousand in revenue,

usually what that meant was we
lost fifty thousand dollars.

I mean, it's like
you've got to spend,

you gotta you gotta pay
for your workers' comp,

you gotta pay your rent,

you gotta pay all your
employees that I mean, just so,

you would have kind of a
breakeven point, a lose money,

anything below that you're
losing a certain amount of money.

And then if we could do,

let's say a million
dollars in a month,

we might make fifty
grand, which is real slim.

You gotta do nine hundred
thousand to break even.

If you do a million,
you make fifty grand.

Now, you could do one
point one, one point two million,

then maybe you could call ten
percent of that net profit.

Right?

You you might get to that point,

but it was so it was tough.

And and what I learned was
there's probably gonna be some

money some some months
where you lose money.

There's gonna be some
months where you make money.

And at the end of the year,

what you're doing is you're
kinda crossing your fingers and

you're going, holy cow.

I hope that we make
more money than we lose.

I mean, it's that that's
the that's the crazy part.

That is crazy. Right?

Like, I don't I don't I need to have
a little bit more stability than that.

Right?

Even then just, you know,
just thinking of myself,

like if I just kinda left it
up to chance month to month,

I'm like, I hope I make
money this month. Yeah.

It's you know, I went I
went you know, we had my partner,

Tim, on our podcast
a few episodes ago.

And Tim was great at managing
expenses and managing the company.

I was sales and marketing.

But, like, one December,
I went on vacation.

I left, like,
December fifteenth,

and I got back maybe January
third or something like that.

So I took two weeks of vacation
at the end of the year.

And I get back, and
Tim's like, hey.

By the way, just
wanna let you know,

I had to hit our line of
credit to make payroll.

I'm like, okay. I mean, you
know, how much did we borrow?

He's like, we
borrowed ninety grand.

And so what that means is I
personally am now forty five

thousand because I
owned half the company,

you owned half the company.

So we borrowed ninety grand.

I personally am now forty five
thousand dollars more in debt

than I was December fifteenth when
I let to go on vacation.

Right? Right.

And so that's the I think when
you're if if you're listening

to our podcast, you've
never owned a company,

you might not understand the
pressure that some of those

finances I mean, if if you
looked at our year that year,

we we would have said, hey,

we made eight
percent or something.

Like, an accountant might look at
that and go, hey, good job.

Eight percent EBITDA. Right?

But from a cash flow standpoint,

it doesn't always
work out that way.

And and so there's times
where you're like, my gosh,

we've gotta borrow a big amount
of money here just to make

payroll next week,

hoping that we then collect the money
that's due to us the following week.

And it that's
tough. That's tough.

Yeah. Definitely
stressful. Definitely.

So let's say maybe
we're a, you know,

moderately successful
heating and air company,

but we're getting into
that little bit of a slump.

I'm thinking about,

but let's say we've got
a pretty solid database.

We've got a pretty good
group of customers.

We're not brand new. That's
what I'm trying to get at.

One

of the tips that I came across
when we were researching

this topic is what can you do
with your existing customers

to drum up some new
business so that you

are pulling in new revenue,

not just collecting on maybe
existing payment plans or

structures that
you have out there,

actually get another sale out
of your existing customers.

Did you ever have
any experience with that?

Yeah.

I, one of the coolest parts of
my job is I get to travel the

country and a lot of times I'm
teaching a class and it's on

sales and we'll
touch on marketing.

But I get to interact with some
business owners who are phenomenal.

I mean, the creativity of
these people, the ideas,

the brainstorming.

And so I I will say as
a business owner then

the advantage that I had
over maybe Stephen ten

years before is I hadn't
had that experience.

I hadn't seen
around the country.

So we we stole some ideas
from other heating air

companies in other
parts of the country

that I thought were were
people that had great ideas.

And and and so, you know, we
could put those into play.

And here's what here's what
I ended up focusing on.

A lot of my focus initially as
a business owner was growth.

And so what I wanted to
do was have big months.

Like the first month that we
did over a million dollars in

revenue, I mean,
we threw a party.

I mean, that was so hard to get
to because when I bought in,

we were only doing two
million in annual revenue.

So, to do a million
dollars in a month,

that was huge but

later on in my kind of
career as a business owner,

what I spent more time focusing
on was if I could eliminate the

months where we lose money,

then the months where we make
money are actually growth months.

We can take that revenue and
we can ramp up our marketing

budget or we could buy new
vans or we could expand our

warehouse or we could actually
do things with the money rather

than just turn around and pay
off the debt that we had from

the months where we lost it.

So one of the one of the ideas,

and this was from a
a company in Atlanta.

Here's what they did, and this
is pure genius in my opinion,

is they they picked a month.

They said, hey. We've got
two really bad months.

It's obviously maybe a little
weather dependent depending on

where you are in the country.

But for them, February
was a terrible month,

and then September
was a terrible month.

Those were two months. They
almost always lost money.

And so what they said was, okay.

We're gonna run a sale
during the month of February,

obviously, to to
boost some revenue.

But what they did was they
presold February, all year long.

Right?

So if if let's say
you've you've got,

this repair versus replace
dynamic going on where you've

got a technician out of a
customer's house and, like,

well, but it's twenty
degrees outside,

so can you just fix it
because we want heat tonight.

Right?

Well, if the if that's the case
where the customer would have been a

good candidate to replace it,

but they decide to go ahead and
do the repair just because of

the emergency circumstances,

they would they would quote
that customer whatever the

price normally was.

Let's say it's thirteen
thousand dollars.

But if the customer
said, no. No.

I'm gonna go ahead
with the repair,

they would give the customer
a substantial coupon.

Let's say a thousand dollars off

and and say, but this coupon is
only good from February first

to February twenty eighth.

And so the net result there were
two things that came out of this.

One is they presold the month of
February by the end of the year.

And so what does that
allow them to do?

Well, that allows them to turn around
to the manufacturer and pre buy

everything that they're
gonna install in the month of

February.

So they can buy in bulk.

They could put in a big
order at the end of the year.

They can get their end of
the year pricing before the price

increase hits in January.

Right?

And they're ordering
a big bulk order.

They're usually able to get
maybe free product or better

term or whatever they
could they could get.

Right?

But then also, you're
rolling into February

and you know that
you need to staff up.

So all of your competitors
are slow and you're slammed.

Now you're not necessarily
making money because you're

you've just cut all the
margin out of these jobs.

You're sending customers thousand
dollar off coupons or whatever.

But what you're not doing
in February is losing money.

And so a month where maybe
they normally would have lost a

hundred grand or lost a
hundred and fifty grand,

now it's a breakeven month.

And then here's the key.

This for me, this gets
me really excited.

They hired installers
during a month where all

their competitors are slow.

So they could cherry pick the
best installers from these

other companies who are good
companies just slow during that month,

get those guys to come work
at their company and then roll

right into summertime loading
up on your installers.

So that was a strategy
that we absolutely

employed at my company.

We're like, we wanna hire
when everybody else is slow.

We're gonna ramp up when
everybody else is slow and

we're gonna presell our slow
months in order to have that

volume to go get it.

And that seems so simple and

yet it takes a little bit of
legwork to stand up and do it right.

Did you see that
really pay off quickly?

Yeah, I mean, it's we kind of
grew like our growth was never

linear, like a straight line.

It was more like stair steps.

And and so what we would
always do is, you know,

whatever our advertising
budget was for the year prior,

you know, we would
usually pick, March first,

and we'd say, okay.

Let's up our advertising budget
by ten percent or or fifteen

percent for this year.

So we would always try to
roll into summertime having

staffed up.

We've got more employees than maybe
we needed the the summer before,

but we're also adding in that
advertising budget to go do it.

And so it is it it
is hard to pull off.

I I think there's
a couple of fears.

One fear is that you're
just robbing yourself of installs

that you would've had otherwise.

Right?

That's you're like, well, man,

if I would've gotten this
install at full price in April,

why discount at a thousand
bucks in February?

So that that's one of the fears.

I think the other
fear is, you know,

what happens to
sales commission.

So if you had a commission
sales guy, well,

now all of sudden, you
knocked a thousand bucks off.

So the salespeople had to
buy into the concept of, hey.

I'm gonna take a hit
on my commission,

but I'm also gonna blow it
out in the month of February.

And so the sales team was
actually excited about it.

They were getting a
reduced commission rate,

but their volume was up.

And the salespeople had the
time to try to close that

customer earlier in the year.

So if you spent the whole month
of October chasing a customer

and just couldn't get it,
well, then as a salesperson,

it gives you a follow-up tool
to call them back to go, hey.

Understand you decided to
just kinda wait it out.

Here's an idea for you.

What do you think about
doing it during February?

And so, you know, you gotta
you gotta manage, you know,

a little bit of logistics.

You gotta adjust commissions.

You gotta get ready
for it staff wise.

You gotta have the
equipment ready to go.

You gotta do everything you
can do to keep your cost down.

But if you can break even
in a month that you would otherwise

lose money, I mean, that is
gold as a business owner.

I also really love the idea
of calling back customers who

maybe showed some interest but
ultimately didn't go with you.

I think that there is some
gold to be found there as well.

So I I think there's something to
be learned from that experience.

Not only, you know, hey,

maybe we have another
opportunity or let's structure

this in a different way,

but then you can also kinda get
the feedback of maybe why that

didn't go with you.

And normally, whenever I'm talking
about offering consumer financing,

you know, one of the questions
we like to ask is, you know,

did you call every customer
that decided not to go with you

and ask why they
didn't go with you?

And chances are they weren't
offering a financing offer.

It could have been because
there was no way for me to pay

or attractive way for me to pay.

So it's a great way to learn,

but also there probably are
some opportunities there.

So I think that's great advice.

Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, go ahead.

Yeah.

Was gonna say what I mean,

you've been all
over the country.

You've talked to all
kinds of dealers.

I mean, what are some of the
ideas that you like, again,

I think to some extent,

I don't know that I've ever had
an original idea in my life.

Somebody else taught me the
Sandler process and all these

marketing ideas are just
ideas that somebody else had.

I mean, have you picked
up any along the way?

Well, the one that I
see a lot of amongst

even the distributor base
that I work with is that when

you are constantly bringing
in green talent or new

people, that process in
and of itself is expensive.

And so if your instinct
is to times are tough,

go lean, cut everything.

Oh my goodness, too
many whales over here.

I gotta get more

cheap labor on the books.

That is gonna cost you because
cheap labor essentially

can lead to more mistakes.

It can lead to more callbacks.

It can mean that you now need
to invest more time in training.

And if they're sitting
in the classroom,

then they're not
out in the field.

So the instinct to just kind
of cut everything that's going

well or good or expensive
actually can be a more

costly mistake than actually trying
to break even as you're saying.

And I have seen that play
out in different ways too.

And I've heard people reflect
on that process of, you know,

I can't afford
not to make money,

but I also can't afford to
lose my talent because they're

everything to me.

And they're why we have the
good reputation and why we

don't get the callbacks.

And so creating a
space with that,

that allows for the seasonality
to kind of mellow out

throughout the year is
a tactic that I think

I see successful
businesses doing a lot.

And that could be kind of
like what you're saying,

like selling a little bit
unconventionally during your

small months, slower months or doing
some more kind of spiff activities.

People will go hunt and go get
if you give them a little bit

more off the top,
they really will.

And maybe I kind of want to
preface that with you were saying,

if you do the big deep discount coupon
then you're taking some margin off.

But if you do the spiff on kind
of the accessory products and

whatnot, that's not
a bad way to go.

And people get
excited about that.

You sell five twenty
dollars spiff items.

That's a hundred
bucks all of a sudden,

a hundred bucks kind of gets
you a fun night out maybe.

So I think that there is
something to be said for

just when you feel that heat of,

oh my gosh, cut
everything, take a pause,

consider what you're cutting
and then consider the

opportunity cost
of cutting that.

Right?

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For
sure. I like that idea.

I think one of the one of
the other concepts that

I don't know that we do a
great job at in our industry

is kind of selling to our
existing customer base.

It makes sense
everybody, oh yeah,

everybody kind of smiles and
nods and goes, yep, Yeah.

We should be doing that more.

And, yes, and and
most business owners,

if I call them and
I just say, hey.

What do you guys you guys sell
to your existing customer base?

They go, oh, yeah. Definitely.

And then you go, well, what
are what's your game plan?

And and most people
don't have a specific

game plan for selling to
their existing customer base.

So we've had a few
marketing experts on

and there's a guy that really
helped me about fifteen

years ago get
pretty good at this.

And he was a direct mail guy.
I believe in direct mail.

I think when I first got into
heating and air in residential

sales long time ago,
don't go to your mailbox.

You have tons of
postcards, everything else.

Now I might get
two pieces of mail.

So get sad?

It's sad.

In fact,

if you could send me something
just so I had something to go

get out of the mailbox,
Mary, that'd be phenomenal.

But how does direct mail work?

You know, one of the things that you can
see is if you do a direct mail campaign,

you know, the the the typical average
is about somewhere between a half

percent to a one
percent response rate.

So you send out a
hundred postcards,

maybe one person responds.

But where you really see the
bump in direct mail is if it's

a coordinated campaign
where you say, okay, hey,

We're gonna we're gonna use our database
and we're gonna email our customers.

We're going to send them
a direct mail piece.

We're going to have something
ready to go for our technicians

in terms of a talking point.

And when we make our outbound
calls for maintenance

agreements, we're
gonna mention it.

And so one of the
things that you know,

if you looked at those
four things, you know,

does any one of them have a
substantial response rate?

Not really.

But if you put a tracking
number on a postcard,

but you're sending
out the email,

your technician's
ready to talk about it,

and then you've got your
outbound calling or the

customer service reps talking about
it while scheduling maintenance,

You'll see a response rate
sometimes on direct mail of, like,

five to ten percent where
they're calling the tracking

number off the postcard,

but they it's like the fourth
or fifth time they've heard

that messaging.

And so that's when you really
start to see that pay off.

So the direct marketing
association says that on average,

you're gonna spend about ten
times more to go get a new

customer than you are to
market your existing customers.

So, you know, if you've got a
advertising budget of a hundred grand,

you probably should be spending
twenty percent of that just

mailing and emailing and contacting
your existing customer base.

Yeah.

I can tell you from my
experience with direct mail

just personally too
that when when those

stars align and I've seen the
email and usually in my case,

I've seen the truck driving around
and then the direct mail comes in.

I can tell you
just me personally,

all of a sudden that creates
a connection of like, oh wow,

they must be pretty good.

They have a lot going on
in the area and I have

absolutely called people
from direct mail ads.

And I always when they say, you
know, how'd you hear about us?

I always give credit to the
direct mail and that's mostly

because of you, but
it's, it's true.

It's true.

I mean, it does create
the awareness and we've,

we've talked a lot about
frequency and reach,

but the frequency piece of
direct mail is really the

winning part of that formula.

One thing that is
a little bit of a,

I always call it like a level
five in consumer financing

is if you're using a revolving
line of credit program,

like let's say with the Wells Fargo
Home Projects Credit Card Program,

you can actually ask Wells
Fargo to run what's called an

open to buy report.

And it will show you every
customer that you've enrolled

in the program that still
has the credit card open and

how much of a credit limit they
have available on their account.

And you know what their address
is because you have seen that

information on their invoice.

So you can actually do a
direct campaign to those zip

codes and know that you
actually have some pre

qualified buyers in that area.

I mean, that is when you
were saying, you know,

sometimes we don't do
a good job of this.

I know personally from
working on that program,

that that was a feature
that is so rarely

tapped into if if ever.

Yeah.

And it's, you know, one of
the challenges, you know,

let's say you've got, I mean,

we had seven or eight people
in our call center dispatch

center answering the phones
during the summertime.

And then September rolls around,

we don't need eight people.

We need five. But now we've
got these three other people.

What are we gonna do with them?
Are we gonna lay them off?

Are we gonna cut back
everybody's hours?

Can we come up with something
productive for them to do?

That that open to
sell report, I mean,

what if you just took
a handwritten note?

I've got them on my actually,

I'd I've got them in
my drawer right now,

but I've I've got little
handwritten notes where I can

just write out to
a customer, hey,

thought of you

here running a promotion.

Here's what it would be for
you. You're already qualified.

Right?

So what's it take?

I mean, you got I don't
even know what a stamp is.

Fifty cents.

Your your your handwritten
note, maybe a dollar.

The labor of having somebody
write twenty of those an hour.

I mean but the ROI.

I mean, if you could crank out twenty
handwritten notes in an hour to

people who are
already qualified,

they've already used your company,
they know you, they like you,

And you're sending them
specific something to them.

I mean, that's where
you just go, man,

you're gonna get a
decent response rate.

Definitely.

Or, I mean, at the very
least, a very hot referral.

Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

I it's, you know, always asking
for the referral, obviously,

is is huge.

I mean, it's I get,

I would say the two best
people for asking referrals in my life

right now, one is
my chiropractor,

and the other is the
guy that sold me a car.

I mean, he he I mean,
just all the time.

Little emails, notes,
like, hey, man.

How you like your car?
I'm like, I love it.

He's like, you got you know,

everybody else
that would like it?

You know? I mean,
he's great at it.

And as an industry,
we're not so great.

Oh, that's so true. Oh,
that's a really good point.

What about

about during maybe
a shoulder season?

The we've we've already talked
about the inclination to cut

everything, but where
should you invest?

Where should you keep spending
when you're trying to hustle

through a low revenue
producing month?

Yeah.

I think, know, I now I just I'm
gonna backtrack a little bit or maybe

contradict myself would be
another way to say that,

which is I just said,
hey, here's a great idea,

run a sale during a slow month.

You gotta take that with a
little bit of grain of salt

because here's what
happens in a slow year.

Let's say you did I'm just
gonna use round numbers to keep

the math in my head straight.

But let's say you did a million
dollars of installs and your

average ticket was ten
thousand dollars each.

Right? So you did
a hundred installs.

And you say, oh, we're
having a slow year.

We're behind on the
number of installs.

And so a lot of companies
then, what do they do?

Well, they they cut their price.

Well, let's say you
cut your price from

you know, it doesn't even have to
be a big price cut from ten thousand

dollar average
ticket to, let's say,

ninety five hundred dollars.

But you lost a few installs.

So instead of doing a hundred
installs, you only did ninety.

I'm about to get the
calculator out here.

So ninety five hundred dollar
average ticket times ninety installs,

eight hundred and fifty five
thousand dollars in revenue

versus if we had done the
full hundred installs at ten

thousand dollars a pop
was a million dollars.

And so one of the things that
happens sometimes is when it

gets slow, companies
cut their price

across the board to
make up that difference,

and it really ends up
being a double whammy.

If you're gonna be slower I
mean and and let's say you took

all that money out of margin.

Right?

I mean, because it it the the
manufacturer is not cutting

their price just
because you're slow.

So if you knock five
hundred bucks off,

that five hundred bucks is
coming straight out of that

company's pocket.

So, you know, again, you might
have done a million dollars and

made ten percent net profit,

but now you're only gonna
do eight hundred and fifty five

thousand dollars and
you're gonna make zero.

So you you do have to be
careful in terms of cutting

in general across the board.

How do we how do we do that?

In in our negotiation class,

well, there's two concepts that we
teach before you do a price cut.

Right?

One would be, I like what
you said a minute ago,

which is picking some sort of
IAQ product or an accessory or

an add on because I can
discount that or give it away.

And let's say I had a a five
inch pleated filter and a

cabinet that maybe
I would have sold,

installed for six hundred,
seven hundred bucks with an

install, but my cost on
that's seventy five dollars.

A little bit of labor, a
little bit of, you know,

for the cabinet, for
the filter, whatever.

So if I give that away, I
lost seventy five dollars,

but I but the value to the
customer was seven hundred bucks.

Right?

So so something like
that helps a lot

versus me just saying, hey.

I'm gonna knock seven
hundred bucks off an install.

Well, I knocked seven
hundred bucks in an install.

That one hundred percent of
that just came out of my margin.

So that that's a good tactic.

Here's the tactic that
we found worked the best.

Let's say you had a proposal
out to a customer for a twelve

thousand dollar system, and
they come back and they say,

hey, Mary, you're
a little too high.

I mean, we've got these other
quotes, these other brands.

They're at ten thousand
bucks, eleven thousand bucks.

You guys are at twelve.

You know, to say
something like this, hey.

I can't do anything on the
twelve thousand dollar one.

And that's key because my
credibility is attached.

If I say it's twelve grand and
then I just arbitrarily knock

off a thousand bucks, what I
really gave up was my credibility.

But what I could
say is, hey, Mary,

that one at twelve thousand dollars
that can't do anything on that one.

That the price is
what we quoted you.

However,

this fourteen thousand dollar
one is gonna go on sale next

month for thirteen
thousand dollars.

Would you be open to
looking at that model?

If I could get that sales
price for you today,

would that work for you?

And so one of the things that
we found is if you look at your

gross margins at
twelve thousand, again,

lowering the price at all,
I'm gonna take a big hit.

But if I could get that
customer to go up a level,

even if I lower my price
there, my percentage dropped.

But a lot of times in terms of gross
margin dollars that I'm act you know,

for what am I getting in actual
dollars for an install day,

I'm at the same or maybe
even a little higher.

And so being willing to
discount not the initial

product, but product
that was worth more.

As a closing technique,
that's the most effective

closing technique I've
found for residential sales.

Yeah.

If time is on your side on that,

I I would definitely be
giving that one a try.

Yeah.

And it's it's it's just
those little things,

but it it is kinda hand to
hand combat in the slow months.

You don't wanna give
up any margin dollars,

but you also don't
wanna lose a job.

And so it's kinda, you know,

weeding weeding if you're
riding that fine line.

Right?

You you don't wanna lose
something that you should've

won, but also a job that
you make no money on,

that's a waste of time.

Give that to your competitor.

I mean, if there is one of those
out there where the customer's just

beating you down, absolutely
hand it to a competitor.

Tie them up. They make no money.

Maybe they step
through the ceiling,

and now they lost money.

So,

you know, it's picking
and choosing stuff.

Yeah. I like that.

And I I really also agree
with just because the feedback

around from everyone
around you is, well,

they're lower and you're higher
does not mean that you need to

go into that space with them.

You still need to stand
behind what makes you you,

why you're higher,
the work that you do.

And oh, by the way, if you want,

I've got a nicer option that's
going on sale in a little bit.

And like, let's see if we can
wheel and deal in that area.

I think that's great.

So we've talked a lot of about
different ideas and different

ways that you can think during
these maybe strategically a

little bit slower times.

But I think my big
takeaway is that it does

take a little bit of creativity
and you do have to be willing

to kind of test things a little
bit and see what's gonna work.

Don't go cutting and
slashing everything,

maybe where you have some
redundancies you can, you know, and

take a hard look at how
many softwares you're doing.

Know, we we've all kind of in
the last couple of years as

personal shoppers,

like looked at all of our
subscription services.

Right?

And like, you know,

maybe maybe do some of
that to kinda clean up,

but especially when it comes to your
talent and your investment and your teams,

that's not really a good area
to maybe just be taking out all

of the good work that you've done
during the other good months.

Yeah. Yeah.

It it's it is
drastically different.

I mean, I having been in a
in the sales role in this

industry for a long time to
leave the sales role and go to

the owner role.

It is eye opening. I mean, it
it shocks you a little bit.

I, the perception is,
oh, you own this company,

you make a ton of money And the
reality of it is there's some

months where you're like,

I can't believe how
much money we just lost.

And so you try to just learn
that lesson and go, wow,

we gotta do that again.

We did a podcast.

I mean, one of our first podcast
was just on generating your own

leads and and getting out
there and being proactive

and just had a call
with a primarily

residential train contractor,

and one of the things they had
been working for a while was a

I think it was a movie theater or
bowling alley or something like that.

And that company just
pulled the trigger on, like,

twelve rooftop units.

And so here, you know,
here they are they're like, man,

we we kinda were slow
coming out of December.

We're a little worried twenty
twenty six was gonna be off to

a rough start, but kind
of a small to medium

sized contractor,
twelve rooftop units.

I mean, they're they're about to blow
their January budget out of water.

And so just a little proactivity
of getting out there.

Again, I we won't duplicate that whole
podcast on generating your own leads, but,

man, you know, something
like that comes and hits.

That's a great
start to the year.

Wow. I hope they're
in one of my markets.

I can't tell you.
I'm sworn to secrecy.

Fair, fair. I'll just
watch for POs with twelves.

Okay.

Well, that's exciting.

And again, just we love to
hear those success stories.

We'd love to hear if any of
the advice that we've given on this

podcast has worked for you.

And we're always taking
in feedback and also just

ideas for future episodes.

So if you're interested in
interacting with us, please,

please, please send us an
email at HVAC underscore full

underscore
blasttraintechnologies dot com.

And with that, I
think we will wrap

up this episode as
we're in the twenties

again, I just can't believe it.

I'm so excited for us.

We're gaining steam.
Like this is fun.

It is fun. Really fun. Well,
thank you so much, Stephen.

And thank you to all
of you for listening.