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A sailing podcast for racing sailors everywhere. Exclusive interviews with the sport's top names. Presented by British sailing journalist Justin Chisholm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, hi, everybody, and welcome back to the Yacht Racing Live podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's 2026, a happy new year.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the first podcast of the year for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm joined by Magnus Wheatley, because we're going to be talking about sale GP.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been the opening events of the season Magnus down in Perth Australia.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had massive pharma, because we're not there once again.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't get the business class tickets from Russell.
[SPEAKER_01]: but great watching online.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think everybody will have enjoyed a great weekend of race and great way to start the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a fantastic venue.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we know that 1987 was the best ever America's Cup and it's just it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
[SPEAKER_00]: incredulous that we haven't had more championships down there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Perth should be number one on the list every time you want to put a series together or even just a championship or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be in the consideration.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was brilliant conditions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Massive FOMO not being
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it was a great way to start.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought everybody looked a little ring rusty, the racing was again relatively formula getting, you know, get a good start, get around that top mark.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was too many passing lanes mid fleet.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a few passing lanes, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[SPEAKER_00]: I am of the opinion this needs a little bit of a shake-up to really, you know, to take it further forward now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is becoming, you know, that could have been anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's, yeah, from a racing standpoint.
[SPEAKER_00]: So big winners, big losers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought Sweden did a fantastic job.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nathan Outridge
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the muscle memory is there, it hasn't raced in, you know, since we haven't seen them in any races that he's done since the last America's Cup and just comes out smoking.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, Chris Draper, they're obviously, you know, they're sailing every day down in a down in Auckland with the Emirates team New Zealand and, you know, the muscle memory was was coming back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought today, you know, Sunday, I thought they sort of were where they should have been, but they really knocked it out the park on Saturday, two firsts just unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the big news on Saturday was the crash between the Swiss and the Kiwis, which put the Kiwis out of the rest of the event, put the Swiss out of the racing for that day.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been talking for a while about whether they should be split in the fleets now.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the first time we've seen what 13 boats on the start line.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were several times during the weekend, even when it was down to 10 and 11 boats,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the new adgate, as they approached the new adgate.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really quite terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we only had really this one big incident.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to watch it like 20 times and I'm still
[SPEAKER_01]: not sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not arguing with the decision of the umpires, which was to put the Kiwis in at fault for not getting out of the way, fundamentally.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the first few times I watched it, it just looked to me and I think to you too, like the Swiss just jived and didn't give them any chance to get out of the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: What
[SPEAKER_01]: What, how did you say it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I looked at it and said, well, they just jied onto, um, onto New Zealand, and I'm kind of in Pete's camp that did you have the room and opportunity to to keep clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also a massive judgment call.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to it's a split second call.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, I think you said to me, it was like seven seconds between the incident.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: You can see the board going down on the Swiss boat, so you've got to think they're going to drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to make the mark, so they've got to drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pete's probably hanging on thinking, I'm on the Leyline, I can get round.
[SPEAKER_00]: a lapse of judgment on his path.
[SPEAKER_00]: If someone puts their board down, you've got to be ready for that job.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, it would just been a nice job and you'd have stayed ahead.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Pete didn't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He angled up a little bit to try and get round the bowels.
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, that's where it gets gone wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, this was the top news in New Zealand last night.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was on the news, you know, top of the show, in New Zealand.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, will they make the Auckland Grand Prix, it's big news, it's a big, big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people, you know, in hindsight, looking at it just didn't react fast enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's just, it's one of those, you make that you make a decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: You think you can squeeze over, you've got some good boat speed and it didn't work.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, it's a one half a dozen, it doesn't have another.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think probably the umpires will write to make to make the call that they did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just looking at the body language of the two skippers when they're interviewed about it afterwards.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, both of them clearly shell shot because I mean, that's a massive crash, like a huge crash at those speeds.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's clear that the Swiss weren't trying to be tricky.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they you can see from the on board footage that they're just like really surprised by the fact that
[SPEAKER_01]: that the Kiwis are where they are, Pete seems to be trying to push it more onto where they should have given us enough, you know, we can all get around this race course if we just give each other enough room in these situations and that cause a crap.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said he was really stunned by the fact that the decision went against them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to say that it's arrogance at this point, but do you think there was a little bit of, they'll give us room here, you know, we're the sea the board going down, but I've got another few seconds to just to line myself up perfectly for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this now, super congested fleet, that time just wasn't there, was it?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I, I, I, I, I, I,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll call it, I think there is a lot of arrogance around Pete, and I think it's where the key is, where we're going to sail through, they'll give us room, they'll avoid us, and there's a thinking, there's definitely a thinking from Blair, from Pete, they can be, we've seen it before with when these two wine Ben Ainsley up, they can be quite an arrogant bunch, and it didn't
[SPEAKER_00]: could the Swiss have avoided the crash?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, but then the Kiwis would have just got through.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wrote a piece earlier in the week saying, they're kind of the last of the summer wine team.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know where they're going.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't get them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know they're still the only one of the only ones that's still owned by the league.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the league clearly needs the Kiwis in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it could be this could be the last season we see that line up in that team.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's things are changing for the Kiwis, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, maybe we'll get into that on another podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to give a little bit of expert insight.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I was watching the crash for the 18th time, I decided to get some input from a real expert, Bill O'Hara, who is an international
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember the International Judges group, regularly works on America's RC-44s, TPP-52s, so I know what he's talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: I asked him to take a look at it, and this was what he sent me on WhatsApp.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Swiss were clear ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: and right of way and jived on to starboard still right of way when they changed course they have to give New Zealand room to keep clear, but New Zealand did not react and held their course.
[SPEAKER_01]: When the Swiss started to change course, it was seven seconds before the impact.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a lot of seven seconds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, New Zealand could argue that jibbing was a worse option than going straight, but when you do nothing, it's all on you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I think it was a really, really tight decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, one that the guys in the booth had to
[SPEAKER_01]: had to make an instant decision because both boats were out of the race by that point, but they did make quite a quick decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was within minutes of the incident, so I guess it was fairly clear cut from a rules point of view when they're watching it.
[SPEAKER_01]: on the screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, it's cost the Kiwis their first event, put the really on the back foot, cost them minus seven points in the overall standings, which is not the way they would be hoping to start the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think they're going to be ready for
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's a big, it's going to be a big ask to to do the repairs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what actually is in that oft quarter of the boat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, a quite a lot, actually, there's all the steering, the rudder mechanisms, the elevator mechanism.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, they've got it all on to do it and the funny thing is, is that the tech center is on the team New Zealand base.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Blaz, Blaz is a member of 13 New Zealand, so I'm sure he'll, his past will work, but we'll, we'll Pete, I would imagine the New Zealand tech team will, you know, I'd imagine the America's cup will do everything to get them back on the water and we'll help them out here, I think, you know, they've certainly got all the fabrication tools and everything they need down there, so I think they'll be there, but it's going to be, it's a big ask to get to Auckland.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, strange one.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're so used to associates in Pete Burling and Blair to with the the key we campaign, but actually there's there is an Emirates team New Zealand works team racing in this now and in the form of the Swedish the new Artemis and the new team, the new kids on the block, they're not who are not that new to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got Nathan Outridge steering the boat.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got Chris Draper who's also wears an Emirates team New Zealand squad t-shirt for his work life and then Andy Maloney as well as his flight controller.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's that's a pretty potent force and
[SPEAKER_01]: They started off, I think, with a ninth, as they found the feet on the first day, but then what was the one one?
[SPEAKER_01]: Two, one, one, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought, oh my god, these guys are going to run away with this event.
[SPEAKER_01]: They looked very slick for a team who haven't really had that much time in these newer fifties and showed up a few teams that have been racing these boats for at least
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nathan was starting well on Saturday and today Sunday couldn't catch a break.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just starting like a drain.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think I think an a venue like Perth when it's windy, when it's blowing 20 knots, it's all on the flight controller.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's no no surprise to see, you know, teams finishing where they finished when you look at the actual flight controller.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you got Andy Maloney.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's one of the best in the business.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've all been sailing together, down in New Zealand in the 80s, 80s, they're on the simulators together, they're out on the water as well, so they can click in very quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said in my own blog, I said that I thought they would be midfleet, and I think today was where they got undone basically, you know, they've got 9211 and then 6411.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think six and four is roughly where they are in the fleet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't buy too much that they're going to run away with the season or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you look at the people of Australia, France, GBR, they've all been at this game for a very long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to take time for Sweden to bed in and to really, and I saw some of the mark-roundings just a little less accurately.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nathan is one of the best front runners in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wants to get to head, he just builds and builds and builds and wonderful to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great to have the Swedes in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like they were Nathan's never been away from it almost.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just fit in like a glove and they will take a podium this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: They might win an event, but I think they're more mid-fleet than the hype is suggesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: right, interesting, interesting, still a really strong start for a brand new team that's done so little sailing together, so they finished fourth overall.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they'll be happy with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were in in the final going into the final fleet race of the day and then had a
[SPEAKER_01]: disastrous ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think there'll be, there'll be happy enough with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they'll have plenty to talk about when they get back to work on Monday morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: In their other job, what a life these guys are leading.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's pretty special.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, the other team that really impressed, and I wasn't too surprised, was the French, when you were going to be Wendy in Perth and the French tend to do well.
[SPEAKER_01]: When it's Wendy, they weren't perfect by any means, but they made the final comfortably top of the table.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought they, I thought, Lee McMillan, looked like he was jealous pretty well with Compton.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't sure that was going to be the happiest
[SPEAKER_01]: or easiest combo to better?
[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly not the easiest combo, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Kontan is a man under pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are my pick for the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're going to win overall.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my prediction.
[SPEAKER_00]: They showed all the signs last season of really jelling and betting in and...
[SPEAKER_00]: building up there, they'd have a good Saturday and a bad Sunday or a good, a bad Saturday, a good Sunday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now then they started towards the end of the last season, they started to build in some consistency, didn't congratulate themselves too much, kept focus, and this is the result we're saying, you know, they won the last fleet race in Abu Dhabi, and then they've come at come here.
[SPEAKER_00]: two one two eight fantastic on the Saturday and then five two two.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know that's real consistency and and good lots of I mean they got a little bit undone by the brits.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know when they were reading that race all the way around and then just went to sleep on the final rounding and it just came around the outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean that's a real gutting move that really is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, France.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a lot of time for content.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's a great, but he's under pressure because he's got Enzo Balanger snapping at his heels, you know, the great hope of France.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got to performs.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he did.
[SPEAKER_00]: all credit to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought also in the final, you know, he was willing to roll the dice, which is very French, you know, everyone's going, going out left, I'll go right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody, you know, it's just trying, just trying to find something.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I thought they sailed really impressively.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought flight control was again excellent on that boat as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: and that's Jason Saunders as well, and they just look super solid all weekend and no surprise to see them topping the leaderboard.
[SPEAKER_01]: think the other interesting thing about them just from a broader point of view is looking at the the list of sponsors on that boat that you know obviously the new DS Ortsma Beels which has got to be the clumsy name of in the fleet now the DS Ortsma Beels friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it's so do you peer just calling them DS teams for themselves?
[SPEAKER_01]: But you look on their laurels on the A-core is back on the teams that were part of their America's Cup campaign, and they really are.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an America's Cup Strowks LGP team, they're running two programs, and it looks like they've managed to retain those sponsors from
[SPEAKER_01]: from the previous cup and from the previous season of SLGP and you know in the announcement about the DS Ultimate Beels, they were talking about a 7 million euro operating budget for the SLGP team, which is pretty significant and a pretty comfortable
[SPEAKER_01]: treasure trove to be able to run a team on how the how that then transfers over to the Americas cut we've got to wait and see we haven't had any announcements about which sponsors are involved there but although they're encouraging for for French high performance sailing and for the French fans who will be hoping that you know as hoping your prediction is right they'll have a great result in in
[SPEAKER_01]: this time around.
[SPEAKER_00]: They never stopped from from before Barcelona, okay, dollar, dollar, late, day short, whatever, but then they haven't stopped since and they've kept the sponsors, they've got killing in Bapay's foundation in there and they've signed DS or some of the bills.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've also, you know, at a grassroots level, they've got an Academy, the K-Challenge Academy, which is, um, they've got, I think, two or three ETFs, um, then they've got, oh, supported Balangia through his International Moth campaign, and he was sensational in Garda, the King of Garda.
[SPEAKER_00]: what a great coming force that is.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have got some amazing talents coming through.
[SPEAKER_00]: You think of the likes of Grodoni, you think of Balanja, you know, there's plenty of Harry Meljo's people like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a really good pipeline coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just need their opportunity.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, France is going to be a much, much bigger contender in the America's Cup.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got a great boat as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got the sister ship of Tai Horo.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just need to sort of foil package out and get the, get the mechatronics rights.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll be, they'll be potent.
[SPEAKER_00]: And,
[SPEAKER_00]: Contan is leading that team magnificently.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a real figurehead character, very cool, very calm, real poster child for our sport at the pinnacle and good luck to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they've got a lot of aces in their pack.
[SPEAKER_01]: We should just mention, of course, that it's the first event they've done with a new team manager, which is Philippe Presti, Frenchman, who's, who's, we always associate with coaching, a team with Jimmy Spithill.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been involved with Oracle, was involved with Lunar Russell last time, and yeah, very highly regarded, highly respected.
[SPEAKER_01]: character.
[SPEAKER_01]: This this French team, yeah, but actually the more I talk about it, the more I'm thinking you might be right with your predictions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it looks like the potential for the complete package.
[SPEAKER_01]: So good luck to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about the Australians home territory for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They will have been hoping for a win and they started off with a race win.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, oh, here we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: of Ian Jensen Gooms, you know, to make them a full Australian team, he got injured in training hurt his knee, it's all on video and it looked painful as he did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see, it stopped him dead in his tracks, but who do you fly in?
[SPEAKER_01]: Glenn Ashby.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what a what a what a super sub to be able to bring in and quote of the day on on the TV today when they went on the boat like how's it
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is like, you know, so yeah, so I was going to get my heart rate down to be honest with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: What a character.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what a great standin.
[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't the perfect package easing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody was.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had their ups and downs, but they still had that ability to claw back through the races.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bad starts during Sunday and I know always managed to get back in contention and make sure they were in that final.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think Lenny is probably the, you know, he's the super-subber's and he, it's a shame, actually, that somebody of his age is the person that they fly in.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a youngster coming in.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no kind of, there's nobody else in the team who can step up or put somebody else on out of light to have seen that because you've got to give people the opportunity and sales GP is becoming a bit of an old boys club at the top, really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tom did what he, you know, we always joke about this of when you're at your home venue that the home team always gets the the first wind, don't they?
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw it in Germany, we'd see it in America, and Australia, you know, come out smoking and you think, correct you, okay, this is going to be good.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then get sock back into the pack and again, it comes back down to the format again.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you get sock back in the pack, if you make a second or third row start,
[SPEAKER_00]: it is impossible to get through and no matter how good the bombs flying rules are and how mercurial slingers is, you know, an eighth and ninth and a second puts you on the back foot going into the final day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now luckily they, you know, put strong three threes together and got through to the final just, but yeah,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, that's not the Australian team that we're going to see going forward once Jensen is back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that they'll be a really potent team because I, and I wrote this recently saying that I think slingers need Jensen more than Jensen needs slingers because, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: He is a little bit wild and he's brilliant at times and fantastic when he gets up in the lead, but he needs someone to calm him down, needs some, you know, just to keep that kind of that British mentality of just chipping away, control the controllables and just chip away.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're in ninth, let's get to eighth and that's the only goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was I think
[SPEAKER_00]: Tom expects more demands more of himself and that's where the inconsistency builds in and he has been pretty inconsistent towards the back end of last season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think there'll be there or there about, by the end of this season though, I think I think Gooms will be a great slot end to that team and we'll only make them, we'll only make them stronger than last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about the event winners, the Brits, we've managed to hold off 23 minutes of talking and we haven't really mentioned them, which I asked you to do, otherwise we
[SPEAKER_01]: on the Saturday, which made me wonder, is it going to take a little while to bed in, stew bithal on wing trim?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, after the exit of the engenston to the Australians, but then on the Sunday, oh my goodness, they were just imperious, they were unstoppable, even the race where they put themselves at the back of the pack.
[SPEAKER_01]: before the start with a penalty, they ended up fourth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, hardly got a mention on the commentary.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what they were looking at.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing I could see was, was then just picking off places, every single opportunity, avoid the packs, avoid the congestion.
[SPEAKER_01]: and just just making games all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the start that did come out was that was the team that never went backwards during a race.
[SPEAKER_01]: Only went forwards over the race.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, that just sums them up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hannah and Dylan are just absolutely on song together and Dylan and Stu Bethel.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's just a golden golden partnership, you know, they won the golden, the 49ers together and beaten, burling and chewing, burling and chew, you know, which, you know, just,
[SPEAKER_01]: that that says a lot about how well they sail together and I think yeah it's been it's been the perfect switch around and have got the consistency with Neil Hunter and Nick Hutton on the on the handles there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah I really really strong start very dominant and
[SPEAKER_01]: that I'm really happy for them to be honest with you, you know, I'm not super patriotic, but I am really happy about this start for the tradition.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just just so impressed with the boat speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, particularly on the smaller wing on Sunday, no one could touch them and look how they dominated the final.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were just gaining all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, slings, things we must have been looking ahead going,
[SPEAKER_00]: what can I do?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not making any mistakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're so privileged to get the on board comment when they're actually talking.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on board comms.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're so clicked and together and they're logical.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Dylan is really telling everybody what he's planning, way up at the top mark that we'll go left here, then we'll come in on starboard on to the
[SPEAKER_00]: where the boat speed comes from.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I don't know how you generate boat speed like that in a falling boat and to be that much faster than France and Australia.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a masterclass.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just imperious, superb.
[SPEAKER_00]: And after a very anonymous Saturday, but the Saturday was just about chipping away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Five, three, seven, five.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I kind of, I was like, you I kind of feared for them for the for this year that okay, Jensen's not on the boat anymore, but but the way Park, I think Luke Parkinson is is the secret source in the middle of all of this and he is absolutely brilliant at flight control.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it got windier, he just being like, and that they
[SPEAKER_00]: They were all, you know, he did a shoey at the end, and everybody was, you know, very, very congratulatory towards him, because I think everyone knows what a performance he put in on that on Sunday today.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, all credit to them, fantastic when.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we shouldn't underestimate just how hard it was for the teams to sail these boats in those conditions because, you know, certainly Sunday was just glorious to watch and it you're watching with your heart beat raised because you put yourself on the boats trying to work out where the hell are they going to go as they approach these Lew and Marks.
[SPEAKER_01]: with it all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the congratulations go to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to talk about the Americans as well because we've given them a pretty hard time on the podcast and deservedly so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I sat down with
[SPEAKER_01]: might buckly there.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're now CEO and team principal.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had a pretty honest exchange of views about their performance and he took it all of it on the chin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we heard at the end of last season that Harry Melges had been recruited into the team and was clocking up his 50 hours.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you need of time on the wheel of an F-50.
[SPEAKER_01]: this season at some point that we're going to see Taylor replaced and Harry step in.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Taylor, wow, was like a different man, certainly on Saturday.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they had a result outside the top five, do they?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, three, four, three, three.
[SPEAKER_01]: Critics, not outside the top four.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, what on earth has transformed this team?
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't perform as well on the Sunday, but still finished the event in fifth place.
[SPEAKER_01]: by far their best result in any breeze, you know, in a proper event that hasn't been addressed.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a fantastic result and all credits and they've they have and we've been we've been guilty of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have cops a lot of flack, but justifiably so they haven't been performing, but I think you know, got Mike Meninger Andrew Campbell rookie, you know, and suddenly they're they're working really well together Taylor.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all he had to do was point and shoot really because everything else was done for him and they were very, very fast downwind, great lay line calls and that was just eating the meters up that was just
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you keep on doing the right things, good things happen, and but coming to Sunday on the smaller wing and, you know, 989, okay, they're probably going to go with a tails high from their Saturday performance.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, it is a different beast, sailing those smaller wings.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a different set up.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's different trim.
[SPEAKER_00]: It requires a different skill.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think there's 24 meter wing.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were, there's in the 24 that they were on Saturday and the 18th today.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there is a difference between the two.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's no surprise to see like the Brits, the Aussies or whatever, come out smoking because they know how to use that wing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just a different skill set.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that famous phrase we always love to hear lots of learnings from this weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, getting the results they did on Saturday will be huge for their sponsors.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be huge for their morale and, you know, I predict another very difficult season for them until they bring Melja's on.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, maybe we're wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Taylor has got what it takes at that at this level.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just the first sign we've ever seen of it, really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Indeed, another, well, not another, but a new Helmsman to the pack.
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw him in Abu Dhabi with the Italians with Phil Robertson, bit of a lackluster performance on the Saturday.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they ended up winning a race on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they got something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, but let, you know, let all the way around nail the star looks looked really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were stories that that Phil wasn't feeling awfully well in the lead up to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he could have been a little ropey on On Saturday and we'll give him.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll give him that when we spoke on what's up, you were a little bit scathing about him and and yeah, I, I, I thought, I thought they were a bit mixed, but
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think there were two bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think they will have come out of that with plenty of positives.
[SPEAKER_01]: You think differently?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think Phil Robertson is the answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a certain three time optimist champion in Italy who needs to be on that boat, Marco Gradoni.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Phil is mercurial, but he's also, as he proved on Sunday,
[SPEAKER_00]: a bit stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the moves he was pulling were just ridiculous, forcing his way in at the mark crash jibing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think he looked very smooth on the race course.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just see him as a sticking plaster that the kind of the the backers of of Red Bull, you know, the the private accuracy people behind the scenes have bought
[SPEAKER_00]: Jimmy's, you know, changes over, you know, venturing rudgeteeter and putting, putting fill in as almost like the nuclear option and I just, I can't see it long term, I just can't see it, I could, I think he will be one of those guys who, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: burns very brightly and then you start to fall out with them and the Italians won't like that at all and he'll be he'll be gone midseason.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's my prediction on it and you know they need to really look at who they want driving that that boat and what the overall package is and I just can't see fill long-term in the team.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a bit ironic that after they ran the little
[SPEAKER_01]: of TV that said, they're calling it, he said they're calling it Phil 5.0.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the new me, I've evolved.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then suddenly we see him bouncing around, trying to get round the Lewad Mark, throwing the boat from one side to the other.
[SPEAKER_01]: But well, we'll see.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not as convinced as you, but yeah, I think he does have a lot of talent.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you can rain himself in enough, he's certainly got enough talent on that boat around them that they should be able to Well, that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a very good point is that on paper, that team has got no excuse to lose.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like really hasn't they've got really good flight controllers, really good tremors, really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, America's cup level grinders, everything, everything going for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: but they just, there's something wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know whether it's Jimmy needs to go or Phil needs to go or something, something needs to change to make that a real Italian team.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I just can't, I can't see Phil long term, I really can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, not the answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, to Canadians,
[SPEAKER_01]: uh finished up six, I think, which is where they finished last season at I interviewed Giles on the podcast, um, it was on the podcast now, just for a written story on your racing life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he told me that, you know, last season, they didn't really know what kind of team they were.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had that amazing spell in the beginning of the season where they were winning events and on the podium consistently and then just fell off the edge of a cliff after New York and when the circuit got back to Europe.
[SPEAKER_01]: they didn't look an awful lot different to that today and they didn't seem to be able to capitalize as he told me they were hoping to on being a consistent team into in terms of the line up into season six because they haven't had any changes other than bringing in an additional grinder.
[SPEAKER_01]: They still have the speed team at the back of the boat is still the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: They did, did they win a race?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they won a race.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they won the race.
[SPEAKER_00]: They won the last race, and got out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got the talent.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a bit of an anonymous team, really.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't get behind them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jarls, I think, is a very, very, obviously, a very, very good sailor.
[SPEAKER_00]: But something happened mid-season last year, and he was quite vocal about the crashes and being scared and not the things happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's sort of the wind just gone out of their sails and I thought, well, okay, the first race, they get a fourth, they're like, okay, still it's kind of an anonymous fourth or fourth, and then a ninth and then a fourth and then a tenth.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, where's the consistency?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's none.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, is it, is it jiles?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it, is there a problem somewhere in the team that's making these, you know, making these errors forcing these errors and or miscommunication or what is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: It just feels like it needs a shake up.
[SPEAKER_00]: It needs somebody new, maybe a new, um, strategist on board, maybe a new flight controller.
[SPEAKER_00]: It needs something to happen there because otherwise it's going to be another anonymous year for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: He told me that when they came off the back of those, those podium events, he said, he felt looking back on it that they were doing certain things really well, that was actually masking a bigger fundamental problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: further down the wind range, even though the event they won was quite lighters event, it's not easy, it's not easy just to break these things down and analyze where the problem is, but it's a well-funded team, I don't see them making any major changes this season, I think they're at the end of the day, they're not doing so badly, they're in the middle of the fleet, it's not like the sailing round of the back, so let's see how they turn it round
[SPEAKER_01]: how they evolve as the season goes on.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're probably coming up to about the right length of time to close it down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just mention the Spanish quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Champions two seasons ago and didn't get a chance to compete this time around, broke the boat during practice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't heard whether they get deducted points for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's still to be decided, because it seemed like they just went into a jive and didn't have really done anything wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I looked, I've looked at it time and time again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, well, what actually happened?
[SPEAKER_00]: But apparently, they've caused major damage.
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, out for the weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just not one, really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a strange one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the other teams we haven't really talked about.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we can probably pick up on on another podcast the day and pretty really not not not impressive at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, lots of rumors around the potential of American magic coming in and buying that team or collaborating with them or partnering with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand that one at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Doug Davos wanted to come out of the America's Cup and spend more time with his family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now he's probably going to take a role in on the ACP board.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be, you know, the Solis TP 52 as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now the rumor that he's going into into the Danes and that, you know, Harry Melges has gone to Team USA.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't
[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard rumors of $65 million changing hands, which is kind of probably the, you know, the high end of where a valuation of a team is, I've probably put GBR at that kind of level, not Denmark.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I just, I just, it all just doesn't add up and I'll wait for the announcement before making any any sort of firm judgement and it just doesn't make sense to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because we were expecting that, you know, the rumor was that that would all get announced when the announcement was made of the new facility or the completion of the facility down in Pensacola for American magic, which is going to be used later in the season as a training base for Selju P worth talking about that a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: That to me sounds like a really good move for the
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked to any of these teams and the necessity to bring on new talent even if it's just as a reserve for people getting injured as and as we've seen that's a real possibility in these boats now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it seems like a really smart move and Pensacola
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the greatest place in the world to live, I don't think, but it's a pretty cool place to go sailing and you seem to be guaranteed, you know, the American magic when they would run in their America's cup campaign out of there did lots and lots of sailing probably more than any other team.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, we'll restore the recon coming back from that, didn't we?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was, uh, yes, sensational flat water in the bay, occasional big swells at further out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, what Doug's done in Pensacola is, is phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that facility is enormous.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I was shocked to see them pull out of the America's Cup.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe they're going to be in with a youth and women's team, which will be great.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's all about kind of building for the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just very odd that they're not in the cup, you know, using that facility and using all the, you know, the build, build facility and everything else they've got there, just extremely odd not to not to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought they actually had a pretty good boat in Patriots, I thought,
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're breaking into another podcast, we're breaking, we're going to, we'll get, we'll got shut down by the America's cut comes people as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's not dived too far into that, but yeah, for the Americans, it would, I can see why they want to be in surgery, I can see why Terry Hutchinson is, is looking increasingly desperate to be in, and.
[SPEAKER_01]: in America's cup, because he'd love to be doing what the French are doing, which is is building relationships with sponsors that they can then maybe maybe sashay across into the America's cup with and makes a lot of sense to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe this was the only team that was potentially available to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: in terms of ownership and in that team, rock will have the title sponsor for sure, whether they own the team, I'm not sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that a lot of the people who certainly comes people work for rock world, they're not, you know, private contractors as it were.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and rock will just re-upt on that sponsorship with the other kind of five-year deal or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in a lot of ways, maybe it's the perfect team to buy, because they've got a sponsor.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is all about franchise building and the more money, the more broadcast money that comes in, if they can crack America, that's going to be a big thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it may well be that there's a very good business case around sale GP now that you put in a relatively small sum of money and get the maximum bang out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard that there were negotiations between Doug Davos and the American outfit and that Mike Buckley wants us like $125 million or something, which is just wacko.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that could well be where the valuation of these teams goes to, depending on the revenues that are coming in, because if you do a 10x on, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: 4 million pounds coming, 4 million dollars coming in.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got a 40 million pound team.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you've got a $7 million dollar, it's $17 million.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where you could put it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you get someone like divorce coming in and paying 65 million for something, okay, there's an operating budget, probably six and a half million a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: with the revenue coming in from Rockwell, and it's pretty cheap racing for him at a very high valuation, which is only going to go north.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can then definitely see the French team doing us across the America's Cup and sale GP and having a whole entity.
[SPEAKER_00]: a very sellable asset there, and a very high valuation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's going to be, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what the developers does, but it just doesn't make sense to me to go into Denmark.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just why.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, sure, we want the American team.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't get maybe it was maybe it was the only one available and you've played tonight, Buckley.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say the same thing is he fought tooth and nail to get that.
[SPEAKER_01]: team.
[SPEAKER_01]: He tried to get into the America's Cup and couldn't put it together.
[SPEAKER_01]: They did really well to get the likes of Tommy Hills figure and people like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The sponsors for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he's not going to give it away for 65 million for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: The USA team is how Russell envisage envisages every team to run with big name sponsors, big big profile.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just the performances on the water.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got everything just the performances on the water haven't come, but hold on.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, sass name was a different game and they've got the right sailors, they've got good people, you know, Mike and and rookie of great sailors, great people and if you put Harry on the wheel, I think you could have something very, very special there, which is a shame because Taylor is a character.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's a bit like Marmite, you're either love and I hate him, but I think Harry will bring that all American feel to it and that'll be the cherry on the top of the cake and you know, if you could get him in midseason, actually on the wheels and it's an amicable handover and Taylor goes right, I've had enough of this over to you, Harry, I think that could be really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know Taylor reasonably well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't see him ever, he's so competitive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't see him ever willingly, amacably, I'll have to pry his cold dead hands off the wheel of that but there's my first little view.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, listen, sell to your P moves on.
[SPEAKER_01]: February we see them in Auckland and then in Sydney, it's pretty strong venue start to this season, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great conditions in Perth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we get the same in Auckland and then Sydney will Sydney Sydney.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always a good event.
[SPEAKER_01]: there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a great start to the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great to be chatting with you again about sale GP.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for joining me today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks everybody for listening around the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have enjoyed it, tell your friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't, then I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go on, listen to the foil or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would imagine it's probably the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's it for this one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be back for the Auckland event.