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The iGaming Leader Podcast with Leo Judkins uncovers the human side of the iGaming industry's most successful leaders. Join us as we explore the untold stories, challenges, and triumphs of the executives shaping one of the world's most dynamic sectors.
Each week, we dive deep into conversations with C-suite leaders, founders, and directors from global betting firms and innovative startups. Our guests share their authentic journey to the top, revealing pivotal career moments, leadership philosophies, and personal strategies for sustainable success in this high-pressure industry.
More than just another business podcast, we focus on the crucial intersection of wellbeing and high performance. Discover how industry leaders maintain peak performance while managing stress, work-life integration, and team dynamics in an industry that never sleeps.
Whether you're an aspiring leader, current executive, or passionate about the iGaming sector, each 30-minute episode delivers actionable insights to help you thrive in this fast-paced environment.
Subscribe now to join a community of high-achieving iGaming professionals committed to making this industry not just successful, but sustainable for its leaders.
Arturs Zagurilo: [00:00:00] So I actually joined one of the private banks or maybe even the biggest private bank in Latvia at that time. And, I worked the board there for six months. The bank started to have couple of problems with, different other organisations and whatnot. So eventually bank got liquidated, I understood I need to search for a new job,
And being very frank with the Leo at that time, as I said, I didn't know anything about iGaming.
First month I was thinking I don't get it. I, I, I was like, software B2B turnkey. What is that? I mean, My plan was just to come to wait a bit, learn German, that was my idea, and then go to somewhere like Switzerland or Germany to continue my career in banking that was my goal, right? The things started to, to go very well for me. I mean, I managed to close my first deal, in three months since I joined. Then a month after I managed to do a second closure and then the business trips started. I started to travel a lot, see the world and understood actually what the world iGaming is fun place to be in.
[00:01:00] I was fighting with that. I was thinking something is wrong with me. I cannot work just 50%. if I work, if I'm here, I do my completely 150% best. I spoke once with one person, actually completely not from iGaming world. and he said, listen, this is not a problem.
Embrace yourself because this is your strength.
I want to be not a boss. I want to be a leader. A leader that people respect and love. but especially respect.
Leo Judkins: Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast where we uncover the human side of some of the most inspirational leaders in our industry.
I'm your host, Leo Judkins and as an ex iGaming Director turned Performance Coach, I've worked with over 200 leaders from companies like Entain, bet365, Flutter and many more to help them build the habits to achieve sustainable high performance.
In these episodes, we share exactly what it takes for you to achieve the same.
So with that being said, let's dive in.
[00:02:00] Hey everybody. Welcome to the iGaming Leader podcast. Today I am, joined by Arturs Zagurilo, chief Commercial Officer at Gamma Stack, where he leads commercial strategy across 45 countries. Manages a really big team.
super excited to to talk to Arturs today because his, story's not just about his success, it's about his brutal honesty of that cost to success. He's been super open about his struggles with imposter syndrome. Maybe you've seen some of the videos that we've done. and yeah, that's what we're gonna talk about today.
So really, really keen to hear your story. Welcome to the podcast Arturs.
Arturs Zagurilo: Thanks for having Me. very happy to have a chance, to share my experience a bit today with
Leo Judkins: [00:03:00] I'm super excited to have you here, man. Like one of the big things I remember when, like how Lex always calls you out. Lex also one of our mastermind members and says, oh my God, the talent of this guy is so young
Arturs Zagurilo: right.
Leo Judkins: in your position. So, Can we talk a little bit about that first, Arturs, like, tell us a little bit about, who you are, age, where you're at, and what you do.
That'd be, that'd be a good start. I think.
Arturs Zagurilo: I’m Arturs 31 years old. born and raised in Riga Latvia, in multinational family. It's it's a mix of everything. Basically. Mom is Turkish, Greek, Dad is Latin and polish.
My mother tongue, is Russian. I was born Latvia. So it's a complete mix. Yeah, I'm in iGaming space for the last seven and a half years overall, started my journey in Soft Gamings. and back then didn't know nothing about industry. Actually, I got there by complete accident before I was in a, in a, in a banking sector.
[00:04:00] I was thinking, I'm gonna pursue my career in banking, direction, gonna become a private bank here. And I was imagining all those, you know, nice, nice things from wall, wall for Wall Street, movie, you know. yeah, got by accident. Started to work there, was junior sales, I think. Then after one year I got promoted to middle sales, then senior sales, then mentor. Then I was actually head hunted by JIG, and I went there and worked under Martin Collins, Justin Martin Gray Guy. worked there for nine months and then, I came to Gamma Stack. Came to Gamma Stack and now I'm working last two years as a Chief Commercial Officer and as you mentioned, yeah, oversee big team, 45 countries, different business directions, turnkeys sweep stakes, source code, I mean, you name it.
Leo Judkins: [00:05:00] it's super impressive, Arturs really. it's so cool. And I like, I love how open you've been about all of it. I wanted to, I wanted to start kind of the. To transition into iGaming, if that's all right. You were in a, a super, you know, stable, stable banking career, right? It's predictable, respected, safe.
It's an environment that's, yeah, that's, that's maybe, you know, probably in comparison to gaming, maybe more boring, I dunno. But what was the moment that you thought, or you knew that you had to leave that world behind? you know, do you feel that, Was it just the opportunity or was there something actually eating at you that you felt, oh, I've gotta, I've gotta leave this area and I've gotta gotta move elsewhere?
Arturs Zagurilo: Actually, it's a good question because the moment I understood I need to leave the banking sector, it was when the bank got liquidated.
So I actually joined one of the biggest, Private banks or maybe even the biggest private bank in Latvia At that time.
And, I worked the board there for six months, but, the bank started to have couple of problems with,
[00:06:00] and different other organisations and whatnot. So eventually bank got liquidated. Right.
And I Remember actually the last month already, working in the bun, I understood I need to search for a new job,
right? back then I was working as an assistant. And sometime, sometimes I had the night shifts as well, So I imagine, I'm searching for a job. I have those night shifts. I stayed there for like eight to 10 hours, barely no sleep. And then I found a new job at Soft Kings and I was coming there,
I was finishing my work at 8:00 AM in the bank. Was starting for a quick breakfast. Then, coming to soft Gaming's office and working x extra eight hours.
And, this situation was happening for like
Leo Judkins: weeks
Arturs Zagurilo: weeks
and being very frank with the Leo, at that time, as I said, I didn't know anything about iGaming
[00:07:00] actually. Matter of fact, first month I was thinking I'm working in evolution. What, what I, I, I I don't get it. I, I, I was like, software B2B turnkey. What is that?
I mean, my plan was just to come to wait a bit, you know, maybe to, learn German, that was my idea, and then go to somewhere like Switzerland or Germany to continue my career in banking in the private banking sector.
That was my goal, right?
But the things, the things started to, to go very well for me. I mean, I managed to close, I think. My first deal, in three months since I joined.
So I was like, I got the commission. My incentive. I'm like, okay, so I can buy maybe any shoes for me. That's nice. Maybe it goes somewhere, you know, for a dinner.with my girlfriend.
Then a month after I managed to do a second float, I was like, okay, maybe not shoes already, but something a bit more expensive, maybe a small trip. That deferred closure, and then the business trips started.
[00:08:00]I started to travel a lot. see the world, and understood actually what the world iGaming is about. And, iGaming industry is actually a very fun place to be in, compared to banking, for example as well, because this is. A very corporate and strict structure with a lot of roles And I mean, you can't compare the expos for many other industries to the expos that we have. Right?
So, so basically That's it.
So I was, I was not planning to stay, right, but then it turned out in a different way. I managed to close some KPIs, make some money, started to travel, make connections. In the end, I got very passionate about the place I'm in, you know?
Leo Judkins: I love also the intensity that you're talking about there, right? So from working in banking and then also like straight away running into a, an extra shift there. Tell me a little bit more about that Arturs.
[00:09:00] That's, I mean, that's next level kind of intensity around work. I'm sure that has formed your career ever since as well, that, that type of mindset, right?
Like, But how did that form itself before then? Has it always been like that? did that, you know, is that something, that kind of work ethic, is that something that you, you grew up with? did you identify that in childhood? Tell tell us a little bit more about how
Arturs Zagurilo: Yeah, no.
Leo Judkins: noticed that and how you were maybe different from others around you.
Arturs Zagurilo: you know, I can already remember myself in in at school the way I was actually studying. A lot of kids were normal kids. They were just doing them full work on time, you know? putting 50% of effort, 60% effort, but constantly
The way I was study all the time, it was either everything or nothing. So I'm always very radical about it. I have like those sprints and then this is the way my mindset works the best and produces the best quality.
[00:10:00] Actually now I was thinking lately, okay, maybe he's just a medal of my character. Some people and psychologists say that actually some traumas as well.
And maybe This, and maybe this is the case. but again, I came to a point in my life where I don't want to change this thing in me.
This is Actually my essence. This is my essence. And matter of fact, it proves, at least in my life, that it works.
Leo Judkins: Yeah.
Arturs Zagurilo: It works, it work, it work at school. My dad was saying to me since I was 14 that I will not graduate. I'll not finish the school just because of my attitude. And I said to him, listen, don't worry about this.
Let me chill right now. Trust me. Just trust me. I'm gonna make it work. And one month before exams, I was all over the place. I was studying for 20 hours a day and I managed to close. I managed to close all the gaps.
[00:11:00] Passed all the exams managed to get actually to, one of the best European universities university in the Netherlands.
I Just by myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Choose very nice place by the way. Yeah. And, and same principle applies right now in work.
Completely The same ethics. So I have a sprint, usually I can, and I see that, more mature I get, the longer the sprint I can hold. Right. it could be 5, 6, 8 weeks of hard dedicated work. And again, what I'm saying hard work, it doesn't mean, I'm working actually eight and 12 hours, 14 hours a day. It means highly intense and focused work
You can, you can Spend eight to 10 hours in the office. and the four hours of them, you can just do blah, blah, blah with your colleagues at the kitchen and having some gossip, right?
And we all know those type of people, or you can actually, get super focused about something that you do.
[00:12:00] No distractions. You are in the moment, you are right here and sometimes actually requires you much, less time, right? But the, productivity is super high. So this is, this is my philosophy, this is my principles.
Leo Judkins: Then of course it also goes into deciding what you actually work on during those focus sprints, right? Because you could be very busy with. Low leverage stuff and it doesn't go anywhere either. So, yeah. so I love that Arturs. But, so that all or nothing mindset.
I, I think it's something that, most of our, you know, listeners will recognise. I believe most high achievers are probably all or nothing thinkers. What were some of the, you've embraced that you said, right? You've embraced that, and so what that says to me is that maybe in the past it's something that you've been fighting.
that, is that true? Like how, how has it shown up for you? Has that been, has it have, have you had difficulties with it? Has it always kind of served you well? What were some of the kind of extremes on, on either end with, with your all or nothing thinking?
Arturs Zagurilo: [00:13:00] That's true. I was fighting with that. I was thinking something is wrong with me.
Actually, I was talking to many people, many seniors as well in the industry before and asking, how they perceive those things, what's their approach?
And almost everyone was like saying, yeah, you need to be consistent, you know, and you need to be always there and present and focus maybe on the slower pace and yada yada.
And I try. I tried really hard, but I understood it doesn't work for me. I don't get Any kind of satisfaction. I cannot work just 50%. So if I work, if I'm here, I do my completely 150% best, And then
And then I I spoke once with one person, actually completely not from iGaming world. Very spiritual guy, like a mentor, you know, this kinda a type
[00:14:00] And And I spoke with him. we had we had a random conversation and I kinda shared this problem with I had and he said, listen, this is not a problem. embrace yourself because this is your strength. This is the way you are. It's a cows in a way, but you can embrace these cows. You can make it organised. Just turn it to your favorite, right?
Knowing knowing your strengths adjusting the environment around you based on your skills and strong assets. This is the key.
So right now, I know how I work, I know what's the approach, and I can plan in this stream a lot of key, let's. say Key things I need to achieve during that period of time. And then I give myself a break.
And that's the meanly that of course I don't do nothing during the break. Of course I do, right? But it's just like more monotone, you know, administrative work where it doesn't require a lot of cognitive, functions of the brain.
Leo Judkins: [00:15:00] you know what it kind of reminds me of Arturs is this, this, idea of, I dunno how long ago, where they would punish people that were left hand writers, you know, and they would force them to write right, right-handed. And of course, those people are never gonna be very good at right hand writing.
Because like they were born left with their left hand. Right? And so I think that's kind of the, it's a great metaphor of what you are experiencing as, as well, is sometimes we try to fight our, you know, our nature and it's, we are actually better off just embracing it and leaning into it and making it work for us.
Right? So, so what changed when you started, starting embracing. Kind of your, your natural behaviors. What, what was the difference from kind of when you were fighting it versus now I'm embracing it and, and how, how did that affect, you know, your personal and your professional life?
Arturs Zagurilo: [00:16:00] Made a huge difference, Leo. you? A huge difference because I stopped to blame myself. and I actually, I love to blame myself for everything in life as a high achiever, you know, and a perfectionist.
I love To blame myself a lot and I start to blame myself. And as a consequence, I had more mental energy. I had more, more social battery to move on because I accept myself the way I am. I'm not saying I'm good.
I'm not saying I'm bad. This is just the way I am. That's it, right? Just, just deal with this and, use it. so, But this applies more in a, in a professional, professional work. In sums of, Family and relationship, I think I'm more stable person, Same up. because if I, was, if I would have the same kind of a mindset, you know, dealing with the people, a lot, the loved ones.
I think that would be very, very hard to have anyone around you.
Leo Judkins: [00:17:00] Yeah, but maybe your personal experiences, some of the things that you told me before, you know about tennis matches and how you turn up for your own, like your in your own head. I think that's maybe some of the things where it gets easier over time as well, or where you just learn tricks that. You go, okay, I don't have to be an all or nothing thinker here.
I can actually just roll with things and, yeah. Tell us a little bit more about that. How has that, how has that changed over time with how you perhaps talk to yourself or the standards that you hold yourself to?
Arturs Zagurilo: I not have high standards for myself, for sure. so the second place for me is nothing.
Second Yeah. Yeah. Best Loser. it implies everywhere. again, you gave a good example of Tennis Match, like listen for me, just saying, oh, I had a good game, but I lost. Doesn't gimme any kind of satisfaction. But definitely that drives me to continue to try, you know, and I don't stop to make any kind of attempts.
[00:18:00] I don't stop yet. I will. So I have a friend actually, we played with him I think 86 times tennis match. I lost, I lost 85 times I guess. I hope you're gonna see this, this podcast. So cheers to Pasha.
Leo Judkins: Thank you, Pasha.
Arturs Zagurilo: But but I don't stop. I don't stop. I don't stop. again, being frank with you also, Leo, I understand actually where this mindset is coming from, all or nothing, and, the high achiever, being perfectionist. and Then we can get to the imposter syndrome.
it's a lack of it's a lack of genuine, confidence. Sometimes it's a feeling that you're not enough. Right. I think I told you when we had the injury with you, I mentioned to you something very, delicate. in terms of my childhood. I like my parents.
[00:19:00] I like my mom, but my mom was always telling me that actually. You know, if you are the best class in studies, then she was showing affection and love and you know, and it kind of, it kind of stayed with me thinking that, okay, I need to prove something to myself, to my parents to deserve recognition, love.
And, many people are that because in the end of the day, we're social beings. We're living in societies. We're not somewhere in example, by ourselves as monks. but it also, the coin has two sides. In one way, it affects me because it drives me all the time. I'm a high achiever. I have results. I, I'm always in this fast paced. but on the other hand, the problem is that sometimes you cannot just get a satisfaction from life.
[00:20:00] Because it Doesn't matter what you're gonna have in the end in terms of your professional goals, career, money wise, family, it's never enough. You're always trying to do something better. You always think that the, the grass is greening on the other side of the fence.
Leo Judkins: and how's that now? Has that changed over time? Do you feel, is that still something that you are, you are experiencing a lot? Is it getting better? Is it something that you want to change? How, how do you feel about it? How do you Definitely.
Arturs Zagurilo: Definitely. want to change that and Leo that. That was my reason why I joined. iGaming club. right?
That was The main reason imposter syndrome in something superficial.
There are Different rules actually to this problem that we are discussing right now. So, I joined the club. I joined this community of fantastic people. And, what actually helps me is to see that I'm not alone, right?
[00:21:00] There Are other people like me and having the same issues and we can support and help each other. This is fantastic, I think this is very, very important because people require people around them. and then I'm also having my, sessions so psychologist once in a week the last three years.
It's very Hard. It's very hard. very hard to be brutally honest and first of all, with yourself, and admit something in in life and sometimes go back to your childhood and analyse some traumas or something else that happen. It's hard,
but As long as you start this journey and as long as you actually have courage to admit that there's something wrong, and I wanna have a drastic change in my life. This is already half of the way,
Another half of the way is execution. And I don't expect quicker results for myself. I'm, having this, sessions, as I said with my psychologist for the last three years, and now I feel I just started
[00:22:00] The first couple of months. I was like, yeah, okay, I got it. I got it.
Now it's gonna, it's gonna be much better. No, no, no, I was so wrong. Now I understand this is a journey for life. There is always something. There's
always something To discuss, to understand, to share the pain, to reflect, and then, try to, to, to, to bring into real life the lessons that you'll learn actually, while having those sessions and also while talking with people from my Gaming Club community as well, completely the same.
Leo Judkins: You know, I think, I think the big thing here, I'll say is that it. That we often think there needs to be some sort of outcome, right? With, with coaching or with psychologists or, okay, when I, once I hit this point, I'm better, you know, I'm fixed. And it just doesn't work like that, right? Because there is no better or fixed or there's just, there's just a journey and.
[00:23:00] I think that's such a different, approach from, you know, someone that's been in sales, right? You've grown from junior sales to chief commercial officer and have much more progress in front of you. like it's very outcome driven. Right? So how, like what have you found most difficult with kind of identifying the difference between things that are very outcome driven?
And things that are perhaps more, you know, journey driven that are more, yeah, they call it the infinite game versus the finite game. Like how, how have you managed that over time? Because that, you know, most of us take the same mindset to both different scenarios and then feel like a failure every time.
We don't reach the end outcome with these things that are life. Right.
So, so tell me a little bit more about that Arturs. Like how have you changed that over time and what was some of the. Struggles on that journey towards, the changes that you've made?
Arturs Zagurilo: I think I started to change my approach a bit once I joined [00:24:00] the club, actually, because you mentioned this couple of times about the importance actually of the journey, ikigai.
right? and I like this, Japanese philosophy and, also was reading a book Atomic Habits,
Which Is also, a very good book in your opinion.
Right. and, while inventing certain habits in my life, based on that book, what I understood and what was actually written there is, You need to change, the mindset in the way that there is not the end goal of, let's say, for example, I want to lose weight, right? I want to withstand kilos.
That's the end goal. what's gonna be next? Right? You're gonna start eat unhealthy food again, or what? There is very much of a certainty after this goal right now. If you change and twist your mindset and you say to yourself, actually, I want to.
[00:25:00] Be a healthy life support, right? This is already changing your essence.
You're changing your DNA, who I am, and this is what I'm trying to do.
This is what I'm trying to do, by the way, regarding diet. Same, I'm, I'm not trying to have any kind of final goal where I want to get into into of shape, but just concerning health and food, during sports, right? And same with work. Who this person in terms of let's say professional career? I want to be, I want to be not a boss. I want to be a leader.
A leader that people respect and love, but Especially respect.
And this is how I'm right now, trying to prioritise the things that work. Of course, on the C level, we have a lot of KPIs.
[00:26:00] This is my responsibility. how we gonna achieve But I'm trying to embrace the journey for myself and for my sales guys lately, actually, I think a month ago we had couple of, bad lucks, streak in terms of the closures. It happens in sales, especially in iGaming,
right? So Couple of deals just, just, we lost them on the, on the signing phase already of the, because of the reasons that we couldn't influence. And I saw that, Obviously there is a lack of motivation from a sales team in the moment. And I'm, myself, of course, I'm also worried
Arturs Zagurilo: but what I try to tell them and encourage myself actually is that, guys, let's stick to the locus of control. You did everything you could, right? You need to embrace actually that you made a fantastic intro call. They were interested. They came to the demo call, they were interested. You got to the contract part. You did everything that was depending on you, you know, [00:27:00] Embrace this. and the results will come It is just a numbers game. If you do your work well, sooner or later, the maths, the statistics will turn to your favorite.
Leo Judkins: yeah, I actually posted about this. It's all about making plus EV decisions, you know? That's the key.
Arturs Zagurilo: Yes, yes. If you are playing one fan in poker, correct me if I'm wrong, Leo, right. it's 90% of luck 10% of skill, but if you look into one year, it's 90% already of skill and 10% of luck. If you do constantly same decisions again based On the data you have.
Leo Judkins: Exactly. Yeah, it's exactly that. It's exactly playing the odds. and, and I think, I mean, that's so true, right? Because you can't control whether or not somebody's budget gets pulled or I don't know. suddenly the market shifts or I. You know, the company that you're working with that you wanna sign a deal with, they all of a sudden get their license pulled, whatever, you know, like that.
[00:28:00] It's just not in your control. Of course it's gonna affect you, but focusing on the things inside of your control rather than outside of your control, I think super powerful. So, so thank you for sharing that. Arturs, the, the, the, the big thing that. It is really hard there though, is like you said, right?
You are an all or nothing thinker. You, you know, you play 81 games and, you know, you, you like, you're very, you are very outcome driven, right? You are also very much, you are a super hard worker. You focus very, deeply on sprints. You make decisions on what you prioritise. Now, a lot of people, people that work for you even very likely don't work like that.
Right, and they don't have that same mindset and they approach things differently. Now, how do you deal with that? Because that, I think as leaders, that's one of the, like it's easy to manage people that think like you do, like you.
[00:29:00] You know, it's difficult to manage people that just have a completely different view onthings and a very different approach on things.
So how do you. You know, how do you deal with that? Because your, maybe your first thought is, oh my God, this like, just gotta change and do things like I do them, you know?
Arturs Zagurilo: that's a very good question. I love it. indeed. My team members are very different. They're different. They have different superpowers. Some of them are fantastic in sales. Some other people are, let's say, maybe much more organised and structure
and Analytical, right. So I think my, job as being a good leader is to create environment where I can embrace their skills and they know they have a place where they can grow and, that they do job in the way they want, and if they achieve results. Why not? They can have any kind of style or approach for work.
[00:30:00] So I'm, I'm a huge heater of micromanagement. I was heating micromanagement when I was, working in previous companies myself. Thank
God didn't Happen that often. So I'm noticed that I'm a true believer that if you hire people and you trust it. Rusting, not just on paper. but In practice show that, I cannot duplicate myself, Leo, I cannot, even if I'm hard work and whatever, I cannot, have only 24 hours a day, Yeah.
if I cannot micromanage everyone, if I'll try to change the way the work according to my view of life, nothing will work. But if I trust them, I give them the credit saying, guys, you can do it the way you want the way that works best for you according to your skillset. The most important is just a result. If they're gonna get there from A to B, I don't care how they got there. So, so, So, so,
[00:31:00] This is the point. I think this is my work. This is my job actually as, as being a good leader.
Leo Judkins: has it always been like that or is it something that you learned over time
Arturs Zagurilo:. I, I, I always trust people. I always could delegate, uh. I always understood that, really everyone is different. I'm not the center of the universe. Right. My philosophy doesn't mean that it's good and it could be applied for other people lives.
Leo Judkins: Yeah, it works for you. Doesn't Fair? Yeah, That's completely correct. So,
Yeah. Love it. Hey, Arturs, you've moved from junior, junior sales to chief commercial officer. Many people will have that same ambition, right, of growing very, very quickly. Now, you close some, some deals really quickly, early on in your career where B2B of course, has we all know, has a very long sales cycle.
So that is already very impressive. but what I'd like to ask you is. What are some of the maybe behaviors or skills that you've learned or, or maybe even the mindset that you've had that has helped you the most with, with making fast progress in your career?
Arturs Zagurilo: [00:32:00] Patience. Patience was the key. I'll give you the context
Before joining the iGaming industry as well. I think around two years time when I was a student, I was working as a sales assistant, in the shop. I was selling sports nutrition, and as you can imagine. Doing the sales there very quickly people come.
It's emotional purchase. Like, Hey, you need to build the muscles. This is the best protein for you. Yeah, you wanna, you wanna burn the fat L carnitine, you know? very easy, very quick. And when I came to B2B, I understood, oh my goodness. The, the sales cycle, as you mentioned, is super low, is like, depends of course, on the product, but three, four months. So I learned the patience because I'm a very impulsive person actually in my real life. That was a huge Battle to me. But I understood I want to succeed. If I want to succeed, I need to have this, this skill.
[00:33:00] And actually what also helped me to get the spaces was again, to shift a bit just from the outcome and embrace more journey. Okay. Maybe un unconsciously, actually I was already partially doing it, still thinking a lot about the outcome, but trying to, separate the goal into small steps, baby steps. Okay, this is stage one, stage two, stage three, you know, in the milestones.
And that was Definitely easier for my mind as well to visualise the, the success. So I, I think that was a, like a key factor.
Why I managed to, to grow in my career is patience. and of course, being good psychologists, understanding people. Obviously I didn't, I didn't learn this, I didn't study this. It's just like you, either I think you have it or not. can you actually be panic? Can you understand what other people feel? But if you can Make sure people feel good around you,
[00:34:00] then you can, definitely improve in your career because we are working with people. So if people trust You, people think that you're a good guy. and actually I truly believe this is more important than the other skills, like hard skills.
And when I'm hiring people in my team as well, I make sure first they fit well in the team itself. They're not toxic, they're nice, energetic, all the res
Leo Judkins: Hey, I'll just, I remember in a previous conversation that we had that, before you actually joined the mastermind, you, you said, ah, well I was looking at this content from this guy, me, and you thought, oh my God, this all like, coaching is all bullshit. I like, I don't believe any of it.
And there's so many people that, you know, post on LinkedIn, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it's all rubbish. So, so tell me a little bit more about that. Like how, what was your, because I, I agree with you.
[00:35:00] You know, the whole, there's so much random advice, probably good advice out there, but it's very vanilla, you know, it's all the same and it's just kind of painted slightly differently.
I'm actually reading this book called The, the Hard stuff. Hard Thing about hard things. And it's, it talks about how, it's not about frameworks, it's about the decisions that you have to make by yourself when you have to lay off stuff. You know, or when you have to deal with something super unexpected, there's no frameworks for that, right?
So, so, yeah, I think these vanilla, these vanilla things that we see on LinkedIn are sometimes a little bit. They sound great, but they don't really do anything. But what was your experience with it? What, why did you kind of feel, oh my God, this coaching is all bullshit, and, yeah. How did, how did you get to, to that, that experience and that kind of statement, that feeling that you had?
Arturs Zagurilo: [00:36:00] First of all, to give the context, Leo, you need to, we need to remind the people that gotta watchus that, are partially half the year live in Bali in the year,
Bali is a perfect place for all those coaches. Mental coach, this coach that coach. She, I mean, alls of coaches everywhere. so maybe my bias opinion was also based on this experience, you know?
And as he said, indeed a lot of people are talking about the same stuff. It's very sugarcoated. So vanilla successful success, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? you don't see a real result. So I was thinking, always about having some coach, but I was like, okay, I don't need like a general business coach, right? Or, or I have psychologist already. I need someone in the niche, right? Someone in, within the industry. Someone that actually knows how the things that we're discussing can be applied within the business. Right. And then I saw you, and again, being very frank with you. Indeed, I saw, I, I found like it's a crap.bullshit. He's just another coach.
[00:37:00] yes, not in Bali, but you're more, more than welcome to come. but then I started to, to look into what type of people you have there in community. you know, And I think that was a factor for my decision to apply,
Just to try. then we went for the interview for the first call I understood that you are a really lovely person as well.
So we have imagined sums of the energy. This is vital, this is important. Doesn't matter
how Good you are in terms of coaching. If I don't like you, why should I, you know, be part Of your society? Society. so yeah, and then I completely changed my mind again. When I came, need to admit I was a bit selfish.
I was thinking, ah, I mean, I'm gonna learn some skills, gonna grasp some knowledge and this and that, solve myself fulfill my gaps. And, what a surprise I had when I understood after a couple of sessions and calls that oh wow. Like, yeah, there are problems that maybe are mine and for some people that are sold, but also it works other way around.
[00:38:00] Some people are struggling with the issue that I solved already a long time ago, And I have some ability to assist and help with my advice or questions or just being there around and talking and sharing my journey. And then when you see that actually people change, it's not only about your journey when you start to really cherish the journey of other people and you become really good friends. This is fantastic.
That's, that's The best thing that can happen. And when I So everyone at the gathering in, in London that we had, it's amazing feeling. It's really the next level because if people get really close to you, you see them two times a week, right? And you talk, about so many sensitive topics and when finally have a chance to sit, there in one within one table and have a drink and laughs and fantastic.
Leo Judkins: Yeah, it was great. I loved it as well. It's amazing.
[00:39:00] hey Arturs, I wanna talk a little bit about the vulnerability that you show up with. so I think gaming is just so full of people that pr pretend, right? awards are board, you know, like everybody wears their best watches, you know, to event, you know what I mean?
Like all of this stuff. Yeah, yeah. Fake Rolex. you know, news is often advertisement really, it's like, it's such a, it's like makeup, you know? And, and I think it's like you are really brave for being vulnerable in an industry that actually tries to only show their best side all the time. So. I wanted to ask you, how did that start, like talking about some of your vulnerabilities and some of the things that you struggle with, and how do you feel that that has helped you perhaps with, as a leader and with your team, but perhaps also with your business?
[00:40:00] Because we often think about things as just business driven. We shouldn't talk about ourselves, we should talk about business. So how have some of these, how, how did that start and how has it helped you over time?
Arturs Zagurilo: Love this question, Leo. indeed. I think it's not only about the iGaming industry,
It's about the social medias in general. It's always sugarcoated. We see, everyone super successful. they being there, doing this, buying that, you know. But of course it's usually just masks, masks, masks, and a lot of pretending.
so to give you an answer to this, I need to start with saying that I don't think that being honest with yourself and with your audience is vulnerability. Actually, I think this is The biggest strength you can put.
Hmm. you allow yourself to be yourself. And then you're not in your, in your mental cage anymore.
[00:41:00] You're not a prisoner inside of your own body. Imagine how hard is it to always pretend to be someone that you are not? How much of mental energy do you consume? How unhappy you can be with your own life, knowing that you can't be yourself because you're afraid that you won't be accepted. And actually, for a long time I was pretending. In some ways in personal life in business, but lately, a couple of years already, I understood I need to embrace myself. I need to love the way I am. And it helped actually people to, to get closer to me, people that want to approach me somehow
Yep. They see real me and they see my flaws, my, my, let's say problems and traumas, and It really often resonates with them. So they see human being, you know, instead of just like, oh, it's just a boss or a SSC level.
[00:42:00]He's some kind of a monsters as they could imagine, right? Super professional. He knows what he's doing. He's not afraid of anything. It's not the way it works, right? So it definitely helps from the business perspective.
People start to respect you much more. They're willing to do business with you or just even the connections, really genuine connections And And same applies for the team. I openly state, what are my problems on LinkedIn. I openly share my sometimes fears or my bad experiences with my teams as well, of course, given the correct context, right?
And It helped them to open up. I'm sure my team is, is not afraid to talk to me about the problems they have. And this is actually fantastic if we have such environment in the company where they're not afraid to talk to me about anything they want. And if there's even a problem, we can solve it much quicker instead of [00:43:00] people hiding, pretending everything is good and in the end, then you have very, very bad catastrophic results that maybe sometimes it cannot be solved or fixed. Anyhow.
Leo Judkins: yes. I love it. The but there's a scale to this Arturs, right? So there's a scale to kind of all the way on this side. Perhaps we have people that like pretend to be somebody that they're not, right?
Then maybe you have people that are more authentic and, and they, they talk, they, you know, they're happy to admit their failures, but then there's you, right?
And you talk about this publicly. That's a whole new level, right? That's actually publicly, I mean, you post about it, you share it with your team. You like, you visibly, you know, share it to the world and. That level of vulnerability, I think is very, that's very brave because that's, that's the thing that most people don't do, even if they don't tell themselves lies, right?
[00:44:00] Even if they don't pretend to be someone that they're not. like actually sharing it is a whole, is a whole different level. So what made you decide to do that?
Arturs Zagurilo: you know, I had good examples like of yourself, Leo, I saw a couple of posts where actually you are very vulnerable. You were talking about your experience with your health. you know, The, the physical condition. You had the story about the public speaking, where you were frozen For eight minutes, right? On the state?
Leo Judkins: I remember it very well.
Arturs Zagurilo: I'm sure you do remember better than me. So actually good examples of people that are already, succeeded in their careers as well. Understanding that actually nothing is wrong with me, I'm just a human being.
[00:45:00] And, through this message and showing out, pending myself, I can actually help other people to talk more about what they struggle because otherwise you open LinkedIn and you just see always wins this, that successes.
No, I mean, don't get me wrong, it's good.
It's good. Of course, you should be positive. You should like embrace also your achievements and results It's fantastic. But when it's very one sided. firstly I get annoyed. Then I, I, I see some people inthe feed. sometimes I see the tendency that, you know, what they're posting And, sooner or later I want to unfollow.
And actually I do that because the, because it's not joining. And especially right now in a, in a generation of AI where people, use AI all the time to write content, everything is getting fake.
You know, beat yourself, showing you up, saying, listen, okay, this is, this is my situation. I struggle with something. This helps to create specific society or community around you and, and, and More you are. And if you're together stronger, you are actually,
Leo Judkins: Yeah, mate, I'm actually gonna take that a level further. I think that in a industry or an environment that is so fake, that is getting more and more fake. Right, because of AI generated content, because of pretending, because of people wearing masks, authenticity actually stands out. So it's great, right?
Like everybody shouldn't be authentic because it allows you to be authentic and allows you to stand out. And I think that is, I think it's an opportunity rather than a risk. And I think most people actually see it as a risk and as long as they see it in that risk category, in that swat. Great. Good for us, bad for them, you know?
Arturs Zagurilo: Correct.
Leo Judkins: So, well done, mate. okay. Hey, Arturs, last question for you. If you would go back to kind of that junior sales guy that started out and, that wanted to.
[00:47:00] I wanted to go back to, wanted to get to where you are today. what was, what would be, you know, what would be some of the, some of the devices that you would give them, that you give yourself back then on what perhaps you shouldn't be doing, shouldn't have done, or what you should keep on doing even more of than you did back then.
Arturs Zagurilo: Okay. I need to reflect a bit on my journey now. I think I would encourage myself to step out of the comfort zone quicker, So, don't get me wrong, the first company award at Soft Gaming is amazing company, amazing people. I learn a lot, tremendously, a lot, but I think I could take this decision to move during, for a new company, new role, quicker. I spend a four and a half years, maybe after two and a half years I could do the step ready, but I was always afraid.
[00:48:00]i And, secondly, I would already start to do some LinkedIn, you know, activity already back then, to build up a certain authority in the ndustry, right? So people know you, People see you maybe more networking as well, because personal brand these days works very well. People buy from people. People don't buy from companies anymore. And in the world of social media, right? yeah. And I think the rest I would do the same. Listen, I love my past. I like all my mistakes. I did all my lessons and learnings I had. And, I'm happy with my career overall, you know, so I can't complain much.
Leo Judkins: Great. Hey Arturs, thank you very much for, for being on the podcast. Really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you.
Arturs Zagurilo: Likewise. Thank you Leo, so much. Thank you. Take care.
Thank you for joining me on The iGaming Leader Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, head over to iGamingLeader.com for more conversations and insights. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast.
[00:49:00] I'm your host, Leo Judkins and I hope to see you next week.