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This special episode of 5th Wednesday is a conversation between James Browning with the Small Group Network and Ruth Haley Barton, founder of the Transforming Center about her new book "Embracing Rhythms of Work and Rest" and specifically dive into the command to honor the Sabbath. But how can Sabbath be an a communal command and not something that is done purely alone?
Small group discussions with Nick Lenzi and guests. Applying practical tips and lessons from other areas of ministry, each month Nick shares insights for your church's group ministry.
Welcome to Fifth Wednesday. I'm
James Frying with the small group network.
And fifth Wednesday is our special bonus
series. They usually happen roughly
every time there are five Wednesdays in the
month, and typically there are shows that
are outside the normal flow and topic of
conversations that we have
but that are just too good not to
include.
This episode is an interview
with Ruth Haley Barton, the
founder of the transforming center in
wheaton, Illinois. Ruth is a
teacher and author of several books,
including, but not limited to
Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership,
invitation to Retreat, pursuing
God's Will Together and Sacred Rhythms,
Typically, Ruth speaks with
leaders and church
leadership across the country. This
conversation, I have the opportunity to
sit down with Ruth and talk about her
new book, Embracing Rhythms of Work and
Rest, which leads to a conversation on, um,
Keeping the Sabbath and why. We tend to
be so bad at it.
Ruth also touches briefly on a
sabbatical, but for the full look at both
topics, you'll have to read her new book.
Speaking of the book, stick around to the
end of the episode to find out how you can
win your very own copy. Or check out the
show notes to find out where
you can buy an early release
edition. Now let's jump
into our conversation with Ruth
Haley Barton.
Because right
now we're in the middle of launching a new
book and a lot of attention is going to
that right now, a new Transforming resource.
So, um, I think once we get
past that, then we'll be looking more at
the year following December. And I know
that there will be really good ideas.
When does that book launch?
The official launch date is
October 11.
Um, embracing rhythms of work and
rest from Sabbath to sabbatical and back
again. But this is so
interesting. The book came to the
publisher three months early,
so they pushed really
hard because of paper shortages to get
everything in early so that we could meet
the October 11 date and have that
guaranteed. But instead we ended up with a
book three months early. We got it in early
July. So it is actually
out and the publisher is selling it.
It's not available on Amazon yet, but it
is available through the
publisher. But we're pushing
towards big launch activities on October
11 and in the midst of
recording our own podcast season about the
book right now.
And for anyone listening who wants to
purchase that, uh, the link will be in the
show notes and all of
that. And, uh, for anyone
who wants to wait or wants to kindle
version, we'll put that link in there
great as well. Great. Uh,
that's honestly kind of a minor
miracle. Literally everyone else is
three months late. I know. And
we weren't prepared. I've been joking about
the fact that it's like having a premature
baby. We don't have the crib, we don't have
the room painted. We had a really good
launch plan and having it come in early
actually sent us all into
kind of a tizzy, um, because
we weren't prepared. So now we feel like
we have a tiger by the tail.
Um, and we're now trying to keep up.
But in some ways, the book
is a lovely summer book. So those who got
it in the summer, I think, are going to be
blessed because it, um, looks like a summer
book. And also it's about rhythms
of work and rest. And so many
people as they come into fall, they're
trying to think about how am I going to do
my life now coming up into
the fall. And so
if people who did have it
early take a chance to read it, then it
actually can give them the opportunity to
think before the fall. How do I want to
establish the rhythms of work and rest in my
life as I enter into the fall season?
Because for many pastors, the
fall is a very busy launch type
of season. Um, so it's
almost too late to try to think about
rhythms then. It's much better to think
about it early. So I would suggest
going to University Press's website and
just ordering it. They're giving a good
discount right now. And so, uh,
you can get it if you want it.
Yeah, that's
actually exactly what we're going to be
doing. We're going to be doing a giveaway
with this. And I will be ordering
directly from them and
sending that out to the giveaway
winner. So if you're listening to
this, check, uh, the show notes for
how to win your copy, uh,
of the book. I
am about halfway through it.
We had on our end
a mix up on scheduling.
So I started the book Sunday, um,
night. And it's a, ah,
Tuesday morning.
I will say I've
sped through about three quarters of it. But
I think I'm going to reread it a little bit
more slowly after the
interview. In true
satisfaction. Yes. Slow it down. Yes,
exactly. It's very
convicting. It's like
reading about a particular sin while you're
committing with it.
Uh, I feel your pain. I
really do.
Yeah. And to be honest,
I'm proud of myself for not also
trying to listen to your podcast while
reading the book.
That probably would have been a
bridge too far. Yes.
Um, tell, uh, us a little bit about
your new book, the book that you have coming
up, embracing rhythms of
work and rest
from Sabbath to sabbatical and back
again. And uh, you had
mentioned this earlier
and just us getting to know each
other. This is kind of an odd
timing for the book because right now
is ramping up to be a busy season for
everyone. So right as everyone is
getting their calendars too full, you're
saying, all right, we need to take a break.
Tell us a little bit about the book.
Well, I, um, was mentioning that
we ended up getting the book three months
early, which is unprecedented in publishing.
I mean, I've never I've published many books
and I have never had anything like this
happen before. And so it
was meant to be a fall book coming out
October 11, but we ended up getting it in
the summer. And there was a part of that
that for me felt quite right. Because not
only does the book look like a summer
book in terms of the colors on the cover.
But also. I think many people. As they enter
into their fall. Are thinking. How can I do
this one differently as I get my kids back
in school as ministry. Um.
Ramps up in churches. And
pastors are thinking towards
the new initiatives in the fall and things
like that. Um. Should be talking
about the subject of Sabbath before we get
back into all that could be really
beneficial. Before it's too late. Right?
Before we establish all these things in the
fall that just have us running around like
crazy people, could we think a little bit
about our rhythms of work and
rest which God intends for
us? God does not intend for us to work
24/7, um, all the
time, every day of the week. We were not
created like that. God knows we cannot
function like that for the long term, that
we will flame out, that we will burn out. So
God has given us this gift of Sabbath and a
real rhythm of work and rest. And so
I think the timing could be perfect for some
of us to consider.
What are the rhythms that I want to
establish in my life now before I get into
the craziness of the fall? How am I going to
do it in such a way that I honor my own
personal limitations, that I honor the way
God has made me, that I
honor the, uh, gift of Sabbath in my life,
uh, the gift of these rhythms. Um,
and maybe start to get after a little bit
right now before we. Enter in,
what
prompted you to write this book?
You've written a lot of books, you've
written a lot of great books. And
this, as far as I know, is
the first one on Sabbath, is that
correct? Yes. I have a chapter
on Sabbath in the book Sacred Rhythms, and
I have a chapter on Sabbath in the book
Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership.
Um, but, uh, this is the first time
I've really treated it fully. And
also there's a part one and a part two. The
first part is on Sabbath, but the second
part is on Sabbatical as an
extension of our Sabbath practice. And
so this book is
unabashedly addressed towards
pastors and leaders and leaders in
denominations and elders and people
who have the opportunity to establish
and shape the life of a community.
Um, and it's
addressed to leaders and how important
it is for leaders to have their own Sabbath
rhythm and Sabbath practice amid the
demands of leadership. And then it's also
taking a step further and
identifying Sabbath as a communal
practice. When it was given by God to the
Israelites, it was given to a community, it
was not given to an individual. Um, it's
not about individuals trying to figure out
how to take a Sabbath and get some rest.
It's really about how whole communities can
order their lives around, uh, rhythms of
work and rest, and particularly
honoring the rhythm of the 7th day,
um, that God intends for us to live
in. And so then, how can we embed
this in our communities? How can we order
our whole community's existence around
keeping a Sabbath? And I actually used to
introduce a new bit of, uh, phraseology, a
new bit of language to talk about Sabbath
communities, what it would look like for
our community to be a Sabbath community. In
other words, a community that orders its
life around Sabbath keeping.
Um, so it's very challenging because, um,
even the leaders that I've been talking to
about it so far feel very challenged by the
idea that part of their
leadership might be and
should be to establish Sabbath
rhythms. And many leaders have not thought
about it that way. They've not thought about
that as part of their leadership. But
I really rely on the life of Moses to
say that God gave the instruction about
Sabbath to Moses, who was the
senior leader, um, of the Jews,
of the Israelite people, and it was
his job to lead the people in
establishing this rhythm. He did not
delegate that to Joshua or Aaron or anyone
else. God said, you yourself
are to teach the people how to
keep the Sabbath day holy. And so,
um, a drum that I bang in this book
is that it is a part of our spiritual
leadership as leaders
to lead people into
the practice of Sabbath.
And then Sabbatical is just a part
and parcel of that pattern. You
also, in the book, talk a bit
about communal Sabbath
in regards to family. Can
you tell me a little bit about what that
looks like and what your
experience is? You kind of go through some
of the different life stages
and how people do that. I have a six year
old and a four year old, and
rest is challenging for my wife and I, and a
lot of times we take turns on it. That's
right. US, the rest
of the family. Mhm, yeah, that's what you
have to do. Yeah. So again,
this is another aspect, ah, another
layer of Sabbath keeping as a communal
discipline. Sometimes when I teach on
Sabbath, many times when I teach on Sabbath,
somebody in the room is going to raise their
hand and say, well, I take my Sabbath
on Monday when the kids are at school. How
do you feel about that. And I'm like,
well, I can't endorse that
because Sabbath keeping was
always meant to be taken with your most
intimate community, and that is your family,
um, and your
worshipping community. Um,
of course, in the Jewish history,
it's part of their ethnicity. It's for
the whole community to, uh,
stop and have a different
kind of day. I think that opportunity
is going to be tough for us because our
whole culture has moved so far beyond
identifying any one day as being a special
day, a set of part days. But I think
in terms of our families and in terms of our
worshipping communities, there is an
opportunity for us to establish
rhythms within those communities. And so
what that means is that we need to
find a way to
practice Sabbath no matter
what our season of life is in our
families. And that means that Sabbath is
going to look different through the seasons
of life. Which is why I spend a whole
chapter really allowing
some voices who are in different seasons of
their own lives to speak about their own
experience. So when we have young
children, that's one of the most challenging
seasons of life for Sabbath keeping.
Um, but I do think it's still
possible to slow down the
schedule. You're stripping out
everything from the schedule except your
family. And what would delight you as a
family. So when children are young,
it might be a trip to the zoo, it might be
going for a walk, it might be,
um, going swimming.
You're planning it around what would delight
your family and enable your
family to be together and enjoy the
gift of God within, uh,
your family. For parents, it
also means I have a big chapter in the book
on unplugging. And so even to be with your
family unplugged from everybody's
technologies is huge.
I mean, that's a different level of presence
than our children often ever get
from their parents is our full attention.
Without us always checking our phones
or doing texting or checking social
media, that's going to be different in and
of itself. And then the other thing
that I could suggest is that, number
one, you're making it a day for your family
to delight in being together and whatever
that looks like for you. Now, I know
parents are tired and the idea of
Sabbath and rest and taking a nap is just
something we long for.
So another thing that could be different on
the Sabbath. That if your kids still nap
or take quiet time of any sort.
Rather than us rushing around trying to
get tasks done. Because we're having a
Sabbath too. When the kids nap. Or. Uh. When
the kids take a quiet time and we can train
them in this. We can train children to have
a quiet time to sit in their bed or to sit
in their crib and have quiet. Then
we take a nap too. We don't rush around
trying to wash the floor and check email and
all of that. We stop,
too. We crawl into bed and take a
nap. So whatever the space is that
we get, we take it and we allow it to
be a resting time. So those are a few ideas.
The book has way more ideas than that for
how parents of young children can do that.
But there's other seasons of life, too, that
makes status really challenging. And so I
tried to address them all in this book,
which is some really practical ideas. You're
really speaking to my wife's love language,
which is naps. She is
a big fan of
naps. And it was a
struggle for us early on in her
marriage, because if I take a nap,
I can't fall asleep at night, and I already
need less sleep than my wife. When we were
first married, I thought, when you're
married, you go to bed at the same time.
And so I would just lay there in
bed staring at the
ceiling or reading my book or something, and
she'd be sound asleep. She honestly
just needs more sleep than I do. But
she's been big on
teaching our kids about
rest time. For my oldest, she
was like me, she does not need an
app. She does need to sit in a
room. That's right. And to let the
Rpm slow down.
When we moved out here for
our most recent job,
uh, I don't have any responsibilities
on the weekend at our church. I'm very
fortunate in that. And
so our church has both
Saturday and Sunday services. We started
attending the Saturday
service, and
that meant that Sundays we didn't
have anything. That's right. And I'd spent
my whole life in the church or, uh, working
at churches and being busy on Sundays.
And then all of a sudden, it feels like
having the first day of the week off, um,
as a family. And so we did exactly
what you just suggested. We got a
season pass to the San Diego Zoo,
and we go once or twice a month to the
zoo or safari park. And
it's
an hour away, so it's a long car ride.
Kids are just sitting there listening to
audiobooks. I've listened to Amelia bedelia
a thousand times
and all of this, but
it changed our family. It made a
huge difference.
Yeah. And
honestly, when we
get into the nitty gritty of how churches
can order their lives around this,
I'm very brave to say
that ideally, um, I think if
worship can happen on Saturday night, um,
so everybody worships, like, at four or
five, and then either you have a communal
meal or everybody
they go out, they go home. But
that's the beginning of the Sabbath. And
then everybody wakes up on Sundays, and you
don't have to get everybody ready for church
and get dressed and all the stress of
getting a family to church, but then it can
be a day of rest. So honestly, and that
isn't the Jewish tradition.
The synagogue took place
on Friday night and then
the rest of the Sabbath day
just opens out for all the other things. And
so I wish I
know some churches around here in our area
who meet at 05:00 on Saturday night
and then they are fans, they would never
go back, uh, to having church on Sunday
morning. So that's really challenging
and there are lots of other issues besides
the simplistic way that I'm dealing with it.
But on the surface of things, if
there was a way for people to worship on
Saturday night and have that be the
beginning of their Sabbath and then wake up
on Sunday with the day open to them for
being with family and being in that
intimate community, I think there's a lot
to be said for that rhythm. And you're
fortunate that you have the opportunity, um,
to enter in, because I can believe
you that it has changed your family's life
together. What is the
ideal scenario for a leader of a church
or an organization? What would
communal Sabbath look like
in that context? Mhm,
well those are two very different
things. So let me start with the church
because even for one thing,
small, uh, groups won't have the
same kind of authority
to shape the whole church's life, if I
can say it that way. So let me start by
talking about the church because I actually
think it needs to start there with the whole
church highest levels of leadership
embracing Sabbath as a value so that we can
become a Sabbath community. So, um,
what I would be suggesting is that first of
all, the pastor or pastoral
staff, they need to be practicing
Sabbath first in their own lives in
ways that ground them in the goodness and
the beauty. And I would go so far as to say
the necessity of Sabbath as a
rhythm in their life because,
um, it's a hard word, but
I'm going to say it. And that is
that the Sabbath is not
a lifestyle suggestion from
God.
The Sabbath is actually one of the Ten
Commandments. It's the Fourth Command.
And so I think it's the best commandment
personally, because it's such a beautiful
gift. But we need to grapple with what we
believe about the Sabbath. Do we think it's
just a lifestyle suggestion that different
individuals get to decide whether they're
going to practice it, or is it something
that God really wants for us and that should
order the life of our community? And only
the highest level leaders in a church can
discern and decide that. Um, and it
begins with them practicing it in such a way
that it's meaningful for them, grounding for
them. They've become convinced that it's a
gift of God that we don't want to miss out
on and that we want to lead others into.
Then from that personal practice, then they
bring it to the wider levels of leadership
in the church. And together we decide that
yes, we do want to order our church's
life around Sabbath keeping.
Um, and then it gets preached, it gets
taught, they're small groups. Um,
then you make all your scheduling
decisions around Sabbath.
So when somebody
wants, ah, to add another ministry
initiative, there's somebody in the room,
hopefully the senior leader, who says, now
wait a second, how's that going to affect
our ability to practice Sabbath?
Um, because there's always going to be
strategic and innovative ideas that sound
really good. But if nobody ever brings up
the topic of Sabbath,
how are the pastors going to get a Sabbath?
How are the high level volunteers, the
parking lot attendants, the nursery
workers, the Sunday school teachers, the
youth group leaders, how are they going to
get us out? As if we add this ministry
initiative, this is where it
starts. It doesn't start with the small
groups, it starts with the larger
church embracing this value together. If I
can be so bold. Um, and
then from there, there's a lot of
possibility then for the small groups
to decide together, um,
how will we order our small group
connections? And it could be that that's
where the Sabbath meal takes place. That
there's a Sabbath meal that the group shares
together. Um,
but I think when the group meets
would then take into account,
when are we practicing Sabbath?
So one of the moments that I
described in the book that was really
sobering for me is that I've been on a
church staff for many of the years of my
life. But during a season when I wasn't on
staff at a church, and our family was
beginning to attend a church just as a
normal family, I thought, well, now that I'm
not on staff at a church, I can finally
practice Sabbath with my family.
And this um, church in particular
loaded all their activities onto Sundays.
And Sundays was the only time that our
family could even hope to have a Sabbath. We
had three teenagers and all of that. And lo
and behold, it was all the church
activities that kept us from being able to
practice the Sabbath. They had the youth
group meetings on Sabbath on the Sunday.
They had congregational meetings, small
group meetings, choir practices.
Everything happened on Sunday. And our
family was going and coming all day at
different times and in different ways. And
it was a very busy day, but because the
church was creating the busyness.
And so I made this sobering discovery
that it's not necessarily the secular
culture that's keeping us from practicing
Sabbath. It's actually the church
that's keeping us from practicing Sabbath.
And the church is going
to have to grapple with this. And
so, um, I'm going to
offer you one very
challenging quote from the book that you
might not have gotten to yet that
I think really gets at this truth. Um, and
it's from one of my teachers, Tilden
Edwards, who, um, an Episcopal priest.
But he says
this, um, the church
is primary social and psychological
task is to help people manage their
experience dependency upon God in
such a way that they are better able to
care effectively for the world. These
two dimensions of dependency and
caring define a needed
rhythm of life. And
here's the kicker. The
church is the only large scale
institution in society that is
accountable for and capable of fostering
such an authentic rhythm. Now that is a
quote to grapple with. That is on page
117. When you get the book, go to page
117. The church is the
only large scale institution in
society that is accountable for and
capable of fostering such an
authentic rhythm.
And I think that's one of the main reasons I
wrote a whole book on Sabbath was to say
that to say, if the church doesn't
get this one together and figure out
how to lead and guide and teach a
Sabbath practice, none of the rest of us are
going to get to have it. Um, and
our values, those of us who
embrace the value of Sabbath on
a personal level are going to find that it
puts us in contradiction with the lives of
our churches. And that's a very hard dilemma
that is going to create a real dilemma for
people who are trying to go to church and be
faithful to a spiritual community.
So, um,
once the bigger church gets it all worked
out, then the smaller small groups
can determine, now how are we going to
meet as small groups, um,
around this rhythm of Sabbath that we're all
embracing together. I think that
ties in, especially with something
you said, it might have even been in the
introduction. It was very early on in the
book where the idea of
Sabbath, uh, that
commandment is something that is
bidden, not forbidden.
And I think the church as a
whole, uh, culturally at
this point in time, is
pretty good at handling
the commandments that are forbidden,
but really bad at handling the
commandments that are bidden. Yeah, we're
bad at tithing, we're bad at, uh,
spending, uh, time in prayer. We're bad at
doing all the things we know we should be
doing. And we think we've got it covered
because we aren't doing the things we're not
supposed to be doing. Yeah. So
yeah, I think that's a great insight. Thank
you for sharing that. Uh, and
speaking of
all this, we're out of time,
but I would have loved to have covered
Sabbatical, which is really half of
your book. So we haven't even covered the
second half. But I'd love for you to
share a little bit about that.
And then if we have a moment, I don't know
if we're going to run out the clock here,
but about upcoming retreats that you
have with your. Ministry, uh, thank
you so much for asking about that. Because
honestly, this book began as a book
about Sabbatical. I wanted to write a
book on Sabbatical because when I received
my first Sabbatical, I couldn't find
anything to give me guidance
on Sabbatical. And so I
was very much wanting to write
a book on Sabbatical. But then the publisher
asked if I would combine that with a book
on Sabbath, which became a really good
choice, because what I'm really convinced of
now is that it's really hard to enter into
Sabbatical effectively and fruitfully if you
haven't learned the dynamics of Sabbath
keeping. Because Sabbath keeping,
um, all the dynamics and
the underpinnings and um,
the practices of it, and the discipline that
they all carry over into Sabbatical. And
Sabbatical is just an extended time of
Sabbath. So everything that you learn in
your Sabbath keeping then informs
what you do in your Sabbatical. And
Sabbatical is just an extension of your
Sabbath practice. And
particularly, um, for the
clergy, for people who are pastors,
um, Sabbatical
is particularly fruitful
because clergy
person's life usually has them on call
at all hours of the day or night. Um,
Sunday is always coming, so
they're preparing preaching every single
week, pouring out way more than the normal
parishioner does spiritually. And so
that's where the idea of giving
clergy a longer Sabbatical actually
comes from. Now, I also think it's very
valuable for others as well. Unfortunately,
the business community is also
beginning to adopt this idea of Sabbatical
and realize that human beings just
need an opportunity from the
agricultural perspective. We need an
opportunity for the soil of our souls
to lie fallow. We know that
in agricultural
situations that every seven years the land
lies fallow. And we don't plant it because
the land needs to regain some of its
nutrition. So it comes from the biblical
idea of Sabbath, but it also comes from the
agricultural rhythms. And
so the next half of the book is about how
to plan for and unplug
and, um, engage in a significant
Sabbatical season and how
to be, um, nourished and
replenished and meet God in those
places. And so I have a particular
passion about that because, um,
I think it's something that we're still
grappling with, and I think oftentimes it's
not embedded in the employment
agreements and things like that, as it could
be. Some denominations actually have
it embedded in their denominational policies
and practices, but many independent
churches don't have
a Sabbatical embedded in their call papers
or the employment agreement or whatever. And
I highly suggest that
for a community that wants to identify
itself as a Sabbath community, that the
Sabbath policy for pastors and clergy is
actually, um, embedded in their
policies and in their procedures.
Uh, shifting gears a little bit
the last few minutes of our time. Tell
us a little bit about your
work and you have a couple of upcoming
events. Tell us a little bit. About what
those are and, uh,
how people can be a part of that.
Yes. Well, the Transforming Center, um,
as we said, it's existed for 20 years.
And the core offering, our whole
ministry is organized around our core
offering, which we call the Transforming
Community Experience. And it is a
27 month experience
delivered in nine quarterly retreats. It's
a cohort so that pastors and
leaders sign up to be a part of a
cohort. And there's a covenant, and
they covenant to stay with each other
through the 27 months. Um,
and so they come here to Chicago,
um, once a quarter. We meet at a lovely,
lovely retreat center, and we enter into
rhythms of six hour prayer and solitude
and, um,
experiences with different spiritual
practices. There's an inner rhythm to the
retreats where we, uh, come in, take off our
leadership hats. We are soul in God's
presence for the first night and day. And
then in the evening, we practice group
spiritual direction as our way of being
together in smaller groups. Um, so we're
experiencing, uh, the emphasis of that
practice in a communal
environment. And then the next morning,
somewhere along the way, we switch gears and
start to focus on the leadership
applications of those practices.
So it's very practice based,
but, um, with a leadership
emphasis, how do these things relate to our
lives in leadership? And so our
next Transforming Community starts in June
of 2023. We are
accepting applications already. Um,
we actually have an early deadline
coming up for August 31. Um, so
people can get a bit of a discount if they
were to sign up before August 31.
Um, and so, yeah, it's an
application, and
it's a good application process in terms of
us trying to identify where you are in your
life with God that would cause you to want
to sign up for something like this, because
that's a significant commitment. I call
it an immersion experience in
spiritual formation for leaders.
Um, an immersion experience in
transforming leadership, if you will.
Um, so people need to know that it's
a significant commitment. They
need to be ready. And we'll help you
discern that through the application
process. That does sound like a very
sacred time. Honestly, it sounds very
special. Yeah. Uh, Ruth, thank you so
much for your time. One of the best parts
about being in a podcast like this
is the fact that a lot of times, if you're
listening to somebody, like, normally, if
you're just listening to a podcast, you're
something interesting. Like, I'd love to ask
them about that. Well, now, uh, I got
to yes, indeed. I'm
glad for that, too.
Well, thank you. Thanks for a good
conversation and for your passion for it. I
really appreciate it. My pleasure.
This
episode really just took a surface level
look at Sabbath and barely even
introduced the topic of
Sabbatical. If you want to go deeper,
check out Ruth Hailey Barton's book,
embracing rhythms of work and rest
by winning a copy from US or by
purchasing an early release
copy directly from Interactive
Press. Or you can just wait
for the regular release in October and buy
it from Amazon. All of
these will have linked in the Show Notes
below, so just go. Ahead and read that if
you want. To jump on it.
We will be giving out a pair of
the books and there are two
different ways to enter. We
will choose the winners via Ah random
drawing on September 7. If you're
still hearing this, that means we haven't
done the drawing yet. The
first method of entering is to
leave a review for this
podcast on your podcast player of
choice. It doesn't even have to be a
good review, it can be any
review. Just take a screenshot of
your review and send it to me at
info@lumivos.com.
Lumivos
is
lummivoz.com
and you can also find that in the Show
Notes. The second method is to
find luma's on Facebook and
leave a comment on the contest
post with your favorite or
best Sabbath tip.
So whatever tip you have for
keeping the Sabbath, we want to see that in
the comment. And that post will be pinned at
the top of the Facebook page to make it
easier for you to find. So you
can enter as many times as you want both
ways and you will actually
increase your odds to win. Good luck
and I can't wait to talk with you on
the next fifth Wednesday.
You.