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This podcast is hosted by Advisor Perspectives, one of the leading publications for financial advisors. Our podcast series brings you short interviews with top thought leaders in financial advice, planning, investments and economics. Each episode focuses on a specific issue facing financial advisors. Listeners will learn the key trends affecting the way they and their competitors operate and the steps advisors can take grow their practices and deliver better service to their clients.
Hi. It's Bob Hoopscher, and this is the Gaining Perspective podcast where we bring you insightful conversations with some of the top thought leaders in the investment adviser profession and investment management industry. I am the founder of Advisor Perspectives and a vice chairman of Vedify. Tax management strategies are crucial for clients, and they need today's most sophisticated tools to relieve the tax burden for those clients. In this episode, my guest will dive into those strategies such as tax loss harvesting, and he will explain how tax technology plays a significant role in driving value through smart automated processes that find the right investment strategies for every client.
Speaker 1:We'll also discuss why it's important to deliver tax loss harvesting with a purpose as well as some other hot topics affecting the advisory profession. My guest is Hiran Patel. He is head of adviser solutions at 55ip. So, Hiran, I'm gonna ask you to please start by giving me a little background on yourself, your career path, what led you to 55 IP and your role there?
Speaker 2:Sure. Absolutely, Bob, and thank you for having me. I started my career actually in the seats of those that I serve today, which is the financial advisory seat. I worked as a financial advisor. I felt very comfortable with model portfolios, technology, and before I know it, a few years had obviously passed that Merrill Lynch, which is where I was.
Speaker 2:And I turned into a specialist working with advisors in their practices to help them drive scale and efficiency, within their book. So, essentially, you know, Merrill's exceptional practice management, practice. It became the key to to kind of helping me find success in partnerships with the financial adviser. And, you know, fast forward a bit and with the advancement in, quote, unquote, Fintech, naturally, I joined a Silicon Valley based, technology firm, who served advisers at Wells, UBS Citizens, Santander, Scotiabank, and more. And, again, it allowed me to, honestly, be a consultant, to advisors to help them increase scale through technology.
Speaker 2:And finally bringing me to 55 I p, where I help today advisors, learn how successful advisory practices and businesses within the broker dealer space, the independent advisory space, RIAs, aggregators are really utilizing the power of 55IP's technology, to drive organic or inorganic growth, in theory while delivering, tax harvesting, like you said, with a purpose. And I really have 3 audiences that I focus on here at 55 IP, which is the end client, the financial advisors that are serving them, and then our industry in general for the most part.
Speaker 1:Great. Well, I'm interested in the history of 55 IP. I I believe it was started by Venain Ayr, who I've met, and now is part of JPMorgan. Right? So tell me what, has led the growth of the company.
Speaker 1:I I I looked it up, and I think you've had a compounded annual growth rate of a 126% over 3 years. A 1000% increase in assets. Very impressive.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So, so, Vinay, yes. You're right. So interestingly enough, the history of 55 I p actually starts, quote, unquote, at MIT.
Speaker 2:I won't bore you with the founder's story, but the important fact there is actually the MIT roots. Because of much of what we do at 55 IP, does kind of produce, itself from quant and research driven factors. You know, I believe in the financial industry, 55 I p, we're not building a product first and then delivering it out to the market. We're building and testing a theory and then allowing that theory to actually become the backbone of the products that we launch, and then enhance. And then the second part of that is, you know, really the ability, of our growth, has been factored around, actually, helping the advisors, build around what they they actually are are comfortable in in the business and and do business with them where they do business.
Speaker 2:So when advisors hear technology, they think of the word tech stack or they think of rip and replace. Instead, we've actually built deep integrations with custodians, model providers, TAMs, etcetera, to enhance the adviser's experience and the strategies that they're already using rather than replacing them. So at one extreme, we'll oftentimes work with an advisor who wants to build his own model and be that portfolio manager, and then on another extreme, we might end up helping an advisor use a off the shelf, allocation strategy at the other extreme. But where we really found that growth that you were talking about, that success and growth, is partnership through our leading asset management providers, where we will, you know, essentially support them when they build a model, as the asset management partner directly with the advisor and co build a strategy. It's that advisor strategy, and 55 IP then comes in to deliver, you know, the shift from, a client who may have been in a legacy portfolio to that new bespoke portfolio that the financial advisor is building with the asset management partner.
Speaker 2:And what we do is we really shepherd it through a tax efficient transition, and then ultimately executing kind of the outsourced, model or model delivery on the ongoing basis of monthly rebalancing, quarterly rebalancing, whatever it might be. And for an advisor, this really creates that sense of purpose. It's their financial advisory firm's unique strategy, but it's allowing their clients to complete that shift over time without a tax burden using our tax transition technology. And it doesn't have to have all happen on the the onset of day 1. We will allow that kind of growth to happen or transition to happen over time.
Speaker 2:So it's it's funny, Cerule actually mentioned, few years back, they ran a press release that said, advisors want more customized models, and tax optimization. Funny enough, we just happen to do both.
Speaker 1:Interesting. You know, there's a phrase that permeates the financial media. It's please consult your tax adviser. In listening to you, it sounds like 55 IP is just helping advisers embrace that slogan rather than shy away from it. What are the biggest challenges that you're seeing, that you're able to help advisers overcome when it relates to taxes and their consequences?
Speaker 2:Sure. So when we think about taxes, there's really three things that we're focusing on when trying to break down that barrier to financial progress. The first is what I was just mentioning, tax smart transitioning. How do you get a portfolio from one place where they were for decades to the place that the client ultimately, wants to be moved into by the financial adviser? So for the client in a better position, or a better to better position that tax smart transition.
Speaker 2:What we've done is we've created that technology using algorithms and, you know, delivered it through a a proposal based strategy and helping the adviser actually generate that portfolio's transition over time. It could take months. It could take weeks. It could take decades. But what we're ultimately trying to do is trying to understand what the client's budget preference is for taxes, but also what the ongoing availability of matching up those gains and losses are from an ongoing, rebalancing of that client's portfolio strategy.
Speaker 2:And we'll produce a proposal to help the client understand what that process of transitioning looks like. So that's our first, kind of barrier that we're trying to break down. Once you ultimately achieve the model that you want to move into, there's the concept of ongoing or automated tax loss harvesting. Right? Something that's not obviously, new to the industry.
Speaker 2:But once a client is in that portfolio, we're automatically monitoring that portfolio for changes. And we do ongoing tax management in the form of tax loss harvesting. And then those tax harvesting, abilities or credits, if you will, are used to offset bills that might be occurring or gains that might be realized when a model is updated or portfolio is rebalanced. So that's our second barrier that we're trying to break down. And then finally, you've transitioned the portfolio into the target model.
Speaker 2:The target model has grown over time. Ultimately, you need to take a withdrawal. So our 3rd kind of barrier is trying to break down, for tax smart withdrawals. So when it comes time to get the money out, we help advisors figure out how to do that in the best tax smart way. Certainly, advisors don't want to have cash just accumulated on the side for that withdrawal to take place or have the unintended consequence of raising cash, you know, pro rata across the portfolio, impact that client's tax bill at the end of the year.
Speaker 2:So what 55 AP will do is we'll review the portfolios at that lot level, demonstrate to the adviser in a real time approach through the portal. What is the gains, being realized end up meaning if you were to go ahead and realize taxes or what do the gains look like if you were to introduce tracking error, if you will. So that tax, our active tax technology, you know, we incorporate ourselves into the advisers practice so they can, in theory, demonstrate the value of managing a transition all the way to supporting those withdrawals and embracing that concept of, of taxes. And ideally, as you said, we're allowing the adviser to kinda demonstrate through proposals or reports that value in the sense of, taxes either, saved or or time, that they've been able to go ahead and, keep the money in the markets at that point.
Speaker 1:Well, let's talk about tax loss harvesting. It's been a hot topic lately, but it's not a new strategy. Advisors have been doing this, maybe not under that name, but they've been doing it, for a long time. How is the adviser protected against the wash sale violation? The wash sale violation basically says that you can replace the security as long as and you'll quote you'll correct me if I don't have the exact language here, but as long as it's basically not too similar to the one that's being sold.
Speaker 1:And how much of your company's focus is on issues related to that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, interestingly enough, 60% of the accounts on our platform are actually not taxable accounts, but they're rather qualified accounts. So for advisors who utilize 55, IP, time isn't able to be created or purchased. Right? So 55 IP's purpose for the majority of our qualified accounts, the majority of our accounts on platform, has no advantage except to do one thing, to give the advisor time back, you know, through that outsourced portfolio implementation.
Speaker 2:Now, when they do make an update to a portfolio, let's say, on that one extreme that the advisor is building it themselves or on the opposite extreme, the, asset manager is building an off the shelf strategy or co building a strategy. 55 IP's responsibility for those is to actually help with the execution. Now cross the bridge to the non qualified side. So 60% of our assets are actually made up of non qualified assets rather than accounts. You know, any updates to those models that I mentioned, you know, may and likely will cause, tax consequences to the end client.
Speaker 2:So what 55 AP will do is we'll manage through that tax transition. We'll prioritize taxes over a tracking error. You know? And the intent is we've realized a tax budget for that advisor for that year. Let's assume it's a $0 budget that they say.
Speaker 2:I want to move over a good amount of money with as little bills being realized or as little taxes being realized for my client as possible. If we can create matches of gains and losses on that first transition period, we will move over as much as possible. But on an ongoing basis, as that model is updated, let's say the gains and losses that we're able to match up only allow us to move 3 of the 7, funds or ETF positions that that model provider is asking us to update, we, in theory, will only update 3 because the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th will actually generate a gain for the client. So we actually budget it for the adviser. Right?
Speaker 2:The purpose we're in theory delivering, as you mentioned, isn't a new strategy of tax harvesting, but it's really trying to pull on the triggers from that quant perspective that I was mentioning earlier, you know, with that MIT background. For 55 IP, we have something called, an optimal loss threshold that is set for each individual security. Instead of looking at an account and saying, the account's down 1%. Why don't we go ahead and harvest losses? We're looking at that threshold at the individual tax lot and individual security level and saying, if there's an opportunity for us to go ahead and harvest loss, you know, for a specific lot, we will go ahead and take that.
Speaker 2:And then now depending on the strategy, whether it's a direct indexing strategy or whether it's a a model, delivered directly by the adviser or the model provider, we're doing, you know, checks across thousands of accounts for a financial advisor daily, across, let's say, tens of thousands of securities, across, let's say, a hundreds of thousands of tax lots. So for other situations such as models or ETFs or mutual funds, to protect against wash sale violation, we're performing that same rigor that we do on the direct indexing side, also on the mutual fund and ETF business side as well. So in theory, we're actually trying to protect as much as we can for that advisor, but be as rigorous and as, you know, kind of, aggressive as as we can in order to go ahead and capture when the advisor is actually with their clients.
Speaker 1:Great. And to be clear, when you say you achieve zero tax liability for one of your clients, what you're really saying is that you've just deferred that that tax to some point in time in the future when presumably their marginal tax rate is lower. What happens to the losses that get accumulated by 55 IP in those client portfolios? And it is is it the adviser's responsibility to act on those losses?
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. It's it's actually a great question, and and let's maybe, look back a few years and take 2020 or 2022, for example. Right? 2022, I believe the Wall Street Journal dubbed, as the perfect year for tax loss harvesting in one of their articles.
Speaker 2:Sure. The market significantly dropped from March to April, but that swing was, what, 45 ish days. Most advisors will acknowledge that they probably did do a ton ton of tax loss harvesting in that time period. But as you mentioned, you know, the IRS 1091 rule says, you know, you can't purchase a substantially identical security within that 30 day window before or after a position is sold. 45 days is kind of now a bit of a nail biting, time frame.
Speaker 2:Right? Fast forward now, 2022, we hadn't gone a week into the new year before the markets began selling off. Not to mention that almost each month had finished finished lower than the prior month, at that point. So not only is the market, you know, not doing well in in 2022, but what was a safe haven in 2020? Fixed income wasn't so much of a safe haven in 2022.
Speaker 2:Right? That 3 legged stool of investing, domestic stocks, bonds, and international equities were all at a loss in 20 2. So, theoretically, the only seat that was left to sit on was the tax seat. So, to the question of what happens with those losses, we're trying to provide that purpose. First, getting that client, you know, in limbo between their old strategy and the new strategy, we're trying to complete that.
Speaker 2:So, let's say, in the year before 2021, we end the year with a, 70 30 allocation and we're only 40% into the model. Right? We've only transitioned 40% of the portfolio. That same time frame, 2022, that market volatility allowed us to actually inch further to that model strategy. So we're maybe closer, you know, to the model, and we've moved over 60% of the portfolio without the client actually having to take money out of their pocket to pay the liability to move, you know, 60% more into the model.
Speaker 2:Now let's say you you take a look at tracking here, you know, off the bottle. 20 twenty two's volatility allows you to go ahead and harvest gains and losses, gains and losses from the old position and match them up against losses from the new position. Now, you're actually, in theory, closer to a 0% tracking error. And then, lastly, for clients that, let's say, were on model. Well, periodic rebalances from the asset manager, let's say, in a volatile period like 2022 may have occurred more times than you would have expected.
Speaker 2:Well, that then generates gains. So during those rebalancing periods, we're also trying to balance the strategy towards the model. But if we can generate a loss during those times, we will do so. But in subsequent months thereafter, where there was no rebalance done, well, we will go in and generate, losses to actually help offset the gains from, let's say, the prior year. So come around to, let's say, 2023, obviously, a strong market in the year.
Speaker 2:Sure. But if you take a look at kind of the underlying positions, we had, what, 3 of the 11 secondtors leading the bull rally, but dispersion was available for 8 of the other sectors that were not positive, you know, 3 out of the quarters, 3 of the first quarters, in the year. So when losses are kind of banked by 55 IP, we try to apply them internally within the account we manage first, and then advisers can always use whatever is left as far as, losses that we've generated to guide the conversation with their client, you know, about gains that they may have, ultimately in other investments or deconcentrated investments elsewhere without having to realize that tax burden because we've helped create, let's say, a tax credit, if you will, or a loss credit.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I've had a fair amount of exposure to tax loss harvesting. We've published quite a few articles in adviser perspectives that I've edited. I've moderated panel discussions on the topic. My understanding of tax loss harvesting is that its greatest benefits are for clients with short term capital gains, and those often come with investments like private equity or hedge funds.
Speaker 1:Does taxless harvesting benefit the typical mass affluent client that an adviser might have who generally does not have short term capital gains?
Speaker 2:Sure. So, let's actually, you know, reframe or or or reference kind of the concept of arbitrage. Right? What tax loss harvesting is is actually a concept, you know, that's generating losses, let's say, from the S and P 500 ETF, and replacing it with a similar large cap position in Russell. But what if you think of the aspect of arbitrage or tax loss harvesting, amongst the rates, you know, that are being applied to that client's taxable portfolio?
Speaker 2:So let's say, 25% on the long term and 50% on the short term. I'm being overly overly conservative. Right? Highest tax rate plus, NII or net interest income tax, plus a real, let's say a really high state tax for round number of purposes. So 25 and 50.
Speaker 2:So, if I can look at a massive fluent clients portfolio each day when indexing or monthly, you know, when looking at ETFs, I'm already ahead of the standard buy and hold strategy that a mass affluent client is hold holding. Taken to that next step further for a mass affluent investor, What if the adviser is watching, like I mentioned, not just every household, but every account within that household? Not just every account, but every security within that account. Not just every security, but every lot within that security. Well, now that advisor surely is probably adding value to the mass affluent client rather than the ultra high net worth client.
Speaker 2:So that concept of that optimal loss is now layered on top of those lot level views. So does it make sense to to harvest a loss of a 1 percent drop in an EFA ETF? Maybe. But I really want to take advantage when, you know, 1% of a loss is created on that Russell to move my client back to that S and P original holding that I had. So this concept of proxies is now created rather than parking cash on the side for 30 days before I reinvested into the S and P 500 because of the wash sale rules.
Speaker 2:But remember that concept of arbitrage I I mentioned earlier. You know, that is is maybe not so much, out of sight at that point now because those tax rates might actually favor us to generate losses at that 50% short term tax rate. Right? So rather than generating gains from the short term, let's generate losses for the short term and then focus on generating gains on the long term. So this is a concept that we've actually, implemented and it's part of our optimization process and we, produce something called the tax harvest indicator that's that's on our website.
Speaker 2:And then in doing so, we take a look at our annualized tax savings, which has been about a 196 basis points in tax savings. Kind of that balance of what the client's tax bill would have been versus what we help them deliver by going ahead and taking advantage of those tax rates. So you kind of take a look at that between 2020 2023, we helped deliver about a 196 basis points in annualized tax savings for clients, for their adviser from their advisers.
Speaker 1:And we'll include a link to that tax harvest indicator in the notes that accompany this podcast. There's an interesting ethical question that I posed to others when we've when I've had the topic of tax loss harvesting come up, and I wanna get your take on it. And it goes like this. Tax loss harvesting and others sort of complex algorithmic strategies that, are intended to reduce taxes, they rely on, computing power and services like yours that generally benefit wealthier Americans to reduce their taxes. And that means that less wealthy Americans, and I'm thinking, you know, school teachers and waiters and waitresses, they don't have access to taxless harvesting and the like.
Speaker 1:They're gonna make up the difference. They're gonna pay more taxes. How do you respond to that ethical dilemma?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, really interesting, question. I I would say, in my opinion, technology is empowerment to those clients. Right? If you look at the last decade, we saw a rise in that direct to consumer financial services tool.
Speaker 2:You know, add in the advent, advancement of of firms being able to deliver something like the ability to to purchase fractional shares. You know, surely that allows for a lower entry point at that point as well. So, for example, something like direct indexing has been around for decades, right? If you had a multi $1,000,000, you know, investment portfolio, in theory, you can buy all 500 stocks of the S and P 500, probably for a good sum of money. Now, my dad doesn't have multi 1,000,000 of dollars, but indexing, fractional shares, and technology, we can now probably mimic the entire S and P 500 with a $100,000.
Speaker 2:Right? Directly owning the names of the individual companies on his own statement, rather than through an ETF. And then harvest taxes or losses, I should say, on a daily basis if possible. In theory, trying to help him pay less in taxes because he owns the stocks individually. Now, take a step further and if you look at my sister, who's a vascular surgery resident, she doesn't have a $100,000.
Speaker 2:Maybe she'll she'll make that in in a few weeks or a few days if if that. But she doesn't have a $100,000 like my dad. Right? And she only has, let's say, $50,000. Well, then models and ETFs are then able to deliver, you know, that, monthly harvesting ability, for, you know, a, what we call Henry nowadays.
Speaker 2:Right? And let's say she doesn't have $50,000 because she owes so much in student loans and 5,000 is all she's comfortable in sending aside, then we absolutely still manage towards the integrity of the portfolio. Believe that active tax technology for the day, when those assets do eventually grow to 50,000 to be able to be triggered on. But the important thing is we're actually helping advisors, you know, tailor the strategy for each one of their clients in each one of their respectable situations and allowing the technology to be unison throughout, but allowing different triggers to be applied for different clientele and still being able to try to deliver value to each client in the way that it's basically able to be delivered.
Speaker 1:I wanna talk about m and a and valuations that advisers are seeing in those transactions because everything that we've talked about sounds like it is a benefit to advisers and to their clients. How do you see the technology and the services that you provide impacting valuations in the m and a discussion?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sure. So to that point, today, we partner with over, you know, 200 advisory firms, at 55ip, but probably creates the thousands of financial advisors. Everyone from a singular advisor to a multinational team to RIAs to aggregators and broker dealers, each of them have that same situation or same issue, which we've uncovered, being kind of that cost and time to move a client to their new firm when they ultimately choose to move as a as a business owner. But not only is there a cost in time, but the kind of inevitable cost of taxes being realized in terms of gains, when money goes into motion is something 55 IPS actually solved for, with something what we call, transition services.
Speaker 2:So earlier, I kind of mentioned the concept of transitioning a single account from the old legacy model to a new model while trying to mitigate that tax impact. You know, that was that first pillar of tax smart, technology. What we've done is then we've built a practice management service or a practice management tool to help provide, call it, that transformational uplift to not only the, firm that's actually being acquired, but also to the acquiring firm at that point as well. To not just have to be able to move one account with taxes in mind, but to help them move an entire book with little to no tax impact, let's say, in an afternoon. So I say that because at the end of last year, we helped a $2,000,000,000 firm move their entire book to a large aggregator in a singular day with a defined tax budget for each account.
Speaker 2:Let's say $0 of a defined budget. We don't wanna move any more, than what would have, a $0 impact. So if it's 40% or 2% or 80% or a 100%, move over what you can without realizing gains 55 IP. So we then use that service and our team alongside of the aggregators team, to within real time, you know, generate transition proposals for each of those hundreds of accounts, and then similarly, once those proposals are generated, we actually are generating trades and then executing on those trades, that we've recommended to help them shift closer to that model, let's say, right after lunch. So in doing so for one advisor, we actually executed nearly 70,000 trades, you know, on behalf of the advisor and the aggregator.
Speaker 2:And the purpose here for 55 a p is to help them create time, to call their clients during that crucial, you know, move rather than spending 6 months to try to move the $2,000,000,000 in assets. So just as important is the firm acquiring the advisor, you know, likely has paid a substantial, stake into the deal. You know, having those assets move over in 6 months versus a year versus a day or an afternoon, you know, helps kind of move down the road, and and, helping them now as a firm, the aggregator as a firm, create transformative, uplift, for that inorganic growth that they're trying to achieve as a firm. And, you know, kind of for every dollar, that's going into the partnership, you know, we're trying to create that instrumental, partnership with those advisory firms, with the, firms being acquired as well as the firms, doing the acquiring in that acquisition strategy.
Speaker 1:Given your background and your technical expertise and also your knowledge of the advisory space, I'm wondering what your thoughts are, regarding Fintech and particularly with the onset of AI? Where is the technology going? How is it benefiting advisers?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I was lucky enough to to, hop on a panel last week, specifically around AI. So so very timely, and I think it's very, kind of top of mind for a lot of folks. And it's striking how you know, if I kind of reflect on that last question I just gave, you know, the thing to remember here is that anything we're discussing, trade generation proposals, tax lots, quarterly reports, all that stuff, is done by a human or an advisor today. Except what might take a human weeks can actually be streamlined into moments.
Speaker 2:Right? We always talk about the advisors gearing up for a portfolio change, or they need to update their model. Right? There's tons of research, new stocks to, to to research. There's, you know, the the impact that it'll make to the client, the prep work that takes days in Excel to to go ahead and confirm, you know, couple of days to trade accounts that are not blocked trades.
Speaker 2:And then you spend 2 days or 3 days to reconcile trades. And then, hopefully, fingers crossed, you know, you're only looking at 100, let alone 1,000 of dollars in trade correction. You know, in concept of that, taking shape within moments rather than weeks, last month at 55 IP, we actually had a asset manager deliver a pretty substantial model update to us, holdings, weights, position securities, etcetera. So what we were able to do is in a singular day, we actually updated somewhere around 650, models, and we traded somewhere around 23,000 accounts, before the market closed. So if I think of, you know, 655 models updated that were delivered by the asset manager, 23,000 accounts, you know, we had to go and, you know, update for for advisors.
Speaker 2:You know, it's pretty crazy. But if you actually ask me what the crazier part is, we are actually, looking at a change that we made last, this year. If you look at the same process last year, it was a 3 and a half hour process. We've now streamlined that down to a 45 minute process. So it takes us about 45 minutes to prepare a ton of those trades.
Speaker 2:So by noon, we're beginning to prep for trades across all of our clients accounts through block block pricing, at the custodian. So having AI, if you will, help shave off, tons of times on a multibillion dollar, book of business that we have under supervision, you know, is critical, and and it's fun from the distribution side to have this backbone, you know, that I mentioned earlier from the quant side to drive those invest, enhancements. So that 3 and a half hour to 45 minute window is not possible if you're not driving research behind it. So we actually will do some stuff like game nights, you know, in our Boston office where the two sides of the wall would interact with one another, ask questions, gain suggestions, and then, you know, the Quantum research team will do things like hackathons where, you know, each team will work on a unique problem that, you know, we're trying to solve for as a as a firm. You know?
Speaker 2:And and as they solve for it in true Fintech fashion, you know, product goes in and and then takes the research and builds processes around it, gets everybody in the room together, delivers it to engineering, and then from engineering, distribution gets their hands on it. And then we get to send out cool stats like 3 and a half hours to 45 minutes for for conversations.
Speaker 1:That is very impressive. If there's one key takeaway that you'd like to leave with our audience of advisers about how they can tell whether their clients will benefit from tax loss harvesting or some of the other strategies you've discussed, what would that be?
Speaker 2:Sure. I'll I'll reflect on a a few themes. Right? Money is constantly in motion. Right?
Speaker 2:Markets are actively and rapidly moving. And if you take a look at kind of the years between 2010 and 2019, there may have been opportunity for taxes to be part of the discussion for only some clients. Fast forward to 2020 and where we are today, taxes are really becoming a priority for clients according to to Cirillo. I think that there was a study that taxes are just as much of a part of the conversation that they wanna have with their advisors as the conversation that advisors wanna have about portfolio construction with them. So don't discount that.
Speaker 2:In short, I would say, you know, you don't have to be the expert. You don't have to run the calculations. You don't need to place trades in many aspects. But the purpose is to keep your clients happy, and to be active in the form of communication with them. You know, let us, you know, custodians, asset management partners work for you.
Speaker 2:And if you were to actively review your portfolio, you know, we'll we'll surely be able to pick up, opportunities, you know, while you're out actually meeting your client. Right? So let us do the the time consuming quote, quote, unquote, the the, research related work so that you can actually do the relationship related work.
Speaker 1:We'll include some links in the notes that accompany this podcast where you'll be able to learn more about hearing and what his team offers and what the, offering is from 55 IP. There'll be a link to the 55 IP website as well as to the tax harvest indicator that here in mentioned earlier. Here in there, anything else you'd like to add?
Speaker 2:No. I appreciate the time, and and thank you for taking time to to kinda learn about us.
Speaker 1:You're welcome, and thank you for listening to the gaining perspective podcast with Bob Hoopsier today featuring Hiren Patel of 55 IP. To support our podcast, please share, subscribe, or leave a review to help make our podcast more findable for your friends and colleagues. You can subscribe to gain perspective on your favorite podcasting service.