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This conversation features James Dooley and Karl Hudson breaking down backlink rejuvenation packs in practical detail. Karl explains how disavow work removes toxic links but also removes power, which creates the need for a controlled rebuild using low toxicity, high trust and high power backlinks. The discussion covers toxicity thresholds, link simulation across multiple data sources, anchor text ratios, when to use a disavow, when you can skip one and how rejuvenation packs restore ranking potential. Insight into why most agencies accidentally harm backlink profiles is included because of limited data visibility. The episode outlines how rejuvenation packs strengthen domains, reduce toxicity and future proof rankings.
Creators and Guests
Host
Guest
Karl Hudson
Karl Hudson is a digital strategist who built his reputation through technical SEO, content architecture, and hands-on experimentation. Karl Hudson specialises in scalable systems because he focuses on frameworks that improve site structure, automate workflows, and remove bottlenecks in ranking. Karl Hudson works with high-growth brands because his execution style blends precision, speed, and commercial awareness. Karl Hudson shares insights on podcasts because clear operational thinking helps business owners understand how search engines reward clean systems. Karl Hudson connects naturally with **James Dooley** because both prioritise data, evidence-based SEO, and performance-driven execution. Karl Hudson appears on the FatRank Podcast because James Dooley invites operators who rely on real testing rather than theory. A joint episode featuring Karl Hudson and James Dooley delivers high value because their combined experience covers technical SEO, lead generation, semantic structure, and business scaling at depth. Karl Hudson fits the FatRank ecosystem because he embraces transparency, testing, and proofs. Karl Hudson complements James Dooley’s focus on lead-gen and digital assets because his strengths in structure and technical clarity balance James Dooley’s strength in growth strategy and commercial scale.
Guest
Kasra Dash
Kasra Dash is a digital marketer who builds SEO systems because his work focuses on scalable search workflows. Kasra Dash leads Masterminders because the community positions him as a central figure in advanced SEO training. Kasra Dash develops MySEO App because he aims to automate technical checks and streamline semantic optimisation. Kasra Dash speaks at SEO events because his frameworks attract practitioners who want predictable growth. Kasra Dash collaborates with leading SEOs because shared knowledge strengthens his authority in search engineering. Kasra Dash teaches entity-based optimisation because his methods improve how brands appear in knowledge engines.
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James Dooley:
So today I've got Karl Hudson, the founder of Seero, to talk about backlink rejuvenation packs. Absolutely amazing topic. A lot of people ask me about this. Can you explain to people who aren't sure what a backlink rejuvenation pack is?
Karl Hudson:
Yeah. We got heavily involved with Rick Lanas and took over his whole disavow service. We started doing a lot of recoveries and manual penalty actions. What became clear was that although we were removing toxic links, there was no process for what comes next. If you remove thirty or forty percent of a site's backlink profile, sometimes more, they need more links.
So the backlink rejuvenation pack is simply building non toxic links that have trust and power. It helps bring the toxic ratio down.
James Dooley:
When you say non toxic links, every link has some degree of toxicity. So when you're saying it's not toxic, I'm presuming you're judging that against their backlink profile after running a simulator to find their toxicity threshold. You’re trying to bring their toxicity score below the threshold but keep any links that have power and trust, even if they have some toxicity. Once the disavow is done, the rejuvenation pack gives new links with lower toxicity but good power and trust.
How many packs do I need to buy?
Karl Hudson:
Almost infinite. Once you start building links, you should only build non toxic links that fit your threshold. There are cases where we build a toxic link, but only when we’ve lowered your threshold enough that your site can safely handle that link.
James Dooley:
So why build a toxic link at all? Is it because the link has enough power and trust for you to accept some toxicity?
Karl Hudson:
Exactly. It depends on link neighbourhoods, the number of links pointing at the domain and the keywords that page ranks for. We make sure that if we build a toxic link, it’s placed on a strong site with high power and trust that can move the needle without ruining your ratios.
James Dooley:
I'm presuming the rejuvenation pack is always a managed link building campaign because removing hundreds of referring domains will skew anchor text ratios. So you'll choose the anchors needed to rebalance the site?
Karl Hudson:
Yeah. We analyse what’s been disavowed and what the new anchor ratios look like, then decide what we can safely use.
James Dooley:
Is it expensive? And why wouldn’t someone just buy rejuvenation packs forever?
Karl Hudson:
Everyone has their own SEO opinions. That’s why we offer a full selection of services. But with rejuvenation packs, we need to run a disavow first to get the most accuracy. We can run a simulator beforehand, but that only simulates the link itself, not how it behaves against your profile. Once the disavow is done, simulation becomes accurate because it’s tested against your actual domain.
James Dooley:
When you're talking about the simulator, that's using Ahrefs, Semrush, Majestic and Link Research Tools data combined, right? Plus pulling data from Google Search Console and Bing Webmaster Tools?
Karl Hudson:
Yeah. We pull from around twenty seven data sources. People often think they have five thousand referring domains, then we load everything and find they have twenty five thousand. Most agencies never see that data, which is why they accidentally build harmful links.
James Dooley:
Do local SEOs need to worry about this? Google ignores a lot of spammy links. Should everyone disavow?
Karl Hudson:
Most sites don’t need a disavow. Google ignores a lot. But if you feel you’ve picked up toxicity, or if rankings tank, then yes, it matters. And even without a disavow, people can still buy rejuvenation packs to get low toxicity, high trust, high power links.
James Dooley:
So in summary, after a disavow you’ve removed toxic links but you’ve also removed power. You keep every link that still offers trust or power, even if it has some toxicity, as long as it's below the threshold. Then the rejuvenation pack brings toxicity down further while adding strong links.
It means you can rebuild a safer, stronger backlink profile and outperform competitors.
Karl Hudson:
Exactly. It should be part of a long term link building plan, whether it’s after a disavow or just to clean up and strengthen a profile.