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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Hi guys, it's Sasha and I have a thousand things to tell you. I can't wait. I don't even know where to start. The other big news is that we are officially signed up and registered and have a flight and the hotel and everything. We are officially going to the Infinite Mind conference, the Healing Together conference on DID.
Speaker 1:Super excited. I know some other friends who are going. I want to learn more. I want to figure some of this out and I just am excited to connect with others and see what there is to learn and see if it helps us any. But also we just really like airplane trips.
Speaker 1:So we can take one legit without actually running away or disappearing, right? So no fuging. We have a ticket. Everyone knows where we're going. We're on the same page.
Speaker 1:The husband knows where we're going. It's all going to be okay. We've also contacted some of the people that will be speaking there as well as some other experts and we'll be sharing those interviews in coming weeks. It's gonna be great you guys. We're really learning a lot and word is getting out and so more people are learning together and I'm so excited.
Speaker 1:And then yes, if you want to go to the conference too and haven't heard about it, it's in February, it's in Florida, and you can find a link to more information about the conference on our website on the blog. So yes, that's the other big news. Our website is officially up and running. As I said, it is www.systemspeak.org. So that's super exciting.
Speaker 1:We also have lots of things planned for the podcast, including upcoming guest speakers, a discussion with another survivor about a recent article that was about the difference between dissociation and psychosis. I don't really understand all that, but I know there was a strong response in the community, and so another survivor and I are going to talk about on an upcoming podcast. Okay. So we've taken a little break after all the boring announcements, which I didn't even get to make all by myself. So I don't know how you can hear that or see that, but I'm a little more myself now and a little more chill.
Speaker 1:And we don't talk about boring things. I have a surprise, actually. Guess what is the surprise? It's the husband. We are gonna interview him, like, right now.
Speaker 1:I can't even do this. I am here with the husband. Say hi.
Speaker 2:Hi.
Speaker 1:And we're gonna talk about DID because it's what we do.
Speaker 2:Sounds good.
Speaker 1:And what do you know about DID? I started really, really broad.
Speaker 2:That's okay.
Speaker 1:Sorry. What do you know about DID?
Speaker 2:My understanding is that DID happens in response to serious trauma that occurs during early childhood while the personality is being developed and as a way of protecting itself different aspects of the personality are partitioned off into different areas, creating what are essentially different identities or personalities that may or may not be aware of each other.
Speaker 1:Okay. Mic drop. I feel like the podcast has now been done. It is completed. There is nothing else for us to teach the world.
Speaker 1:I don't I don't even have a response to that. Also, I think you are smarter than me would be one difference. Okay.
Speaker 2:You know what just occurred to
Speaker 1:me? What?
Speaker 2:Maybe this is a terrible metaphor. It's like a blister.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness. He loves metaphors. A blister.
Speaker 2:So when your finger gets burned Ow. To protect itself, it forms that little pouch of liquid. Oh. Like, it's it's created by your body to save itself, but it's, like, partitioned off from the rest of it. So it's not really a different you, and yet and yet it's this individual little cell.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:That's both amazing and disgusting.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. It was it seemed better in my head.
Speaker 1:No. I okay. I have to think about it. So here's the thing about him. I don't know how he dates everybody else, but let me tell you, when he starts talking to me every time, like, my mind is blown and I can't figure out even what he just said.
Speaker 1:I tell him so many times, could you just text that to me so I can look at it again? Because I'm gonna have to process that. My brain can't keep up with what he is figuring out. I mean, it's helpful. It's good.
Speaker 1:I just can't figure it out. Okay. So, whew. Moving on, guess, tell me tell your story of how you found out about the DID. And then, as a follow-up question, did that make sense to you or what was that like learning about our DID?
Speaker 2:Well, we were already married. How long had we been married when?
Speaker 1:I think five or six years. I'm not sure. That's a time question.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's unfair.
Speaker 2:It was less than six. It was four or five. And my wife was going to therapy, and every once in a while she'd say something like
Speaker 1:Because of the dead parents. Uh-huh. So, like, let me clarify. Someone pointed out something. There's not a discrepancy in the dead parents.
Speaker 1:They both had cancer. One of them died from cancer and the other one died from a car accident before they died from cancer.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? Okay. Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. So that's why we were going to therapy.
Speaker 2:So every once in a while she would drop something like, you know I'm dissociative, right? And I'd be like, okay, what does that mean? She'd be like, well, you know how I ordered hamburgers with onions the other day, and I don't like hamburgers with onions usually? I was like, okay. That's weird.
Speaker 2:Alright. And then finally, she sent me a video about DID. And I was like, okay. I don't think I applied it yet. And and then she finally explained this is what I had.
Speaker 1:She sent that without explaining it? She just sent a random video?
Speaker 2:I think so. That's
Speaker 1:awesome.
Speaker 2:And then it was explained to me that that you have DID, and I felt kind of silly for not having noticed. So yeah. So it was explained to me that that she has DID.
Speaker 1:By the therapist?
Speaker 2:No. By you initially or one of But
Speaker 1:I mean then also we met with the therapist.
Speaker 2:Yes. After that, we went to the the therapist to to help me understand what was going on and to to be able to talk about it in a safe place. I think I think you were probably really anxious about opening up to me about it because I know you've had bad experiences in the past talking about it. But I've never had any problem with it.
Speaker 1:Which is so weird.
Speaker 2:I know. It seems like it should have been harder or stranger or something, but it's never bothered me at all.
Speaker 1:Because it made sense. Yeah. Why did it make so much sense?
Speaker 2:Because people are complex. This is this is how I think of it. Maybe this is not how a therapist would explain it or anything. When I think about myself, there's a part of me that loves being a dad, and there's part of me that hates being a dad. And there's part of me that's really outgoing and part of me that's really shy.
Speaker 2:Like, I have all these contradictions within me, different parts of myself. And so DID to me sounds like just partitioning off different parts of yourself. Like, not not voluntarily, but it sounds like a whole person with with walls inside. That doesn't make it any less of a person. And so if I meet an altar who's more playful or more childlike or more serious or more depressed or louder or quieter or angrier or happier.
Speaker 1:Or awesomer.
Speaker 2:Or awesomer. They're just to me, those are just parts of a person.
Speaker 1:Do you know when different people are out or fronting, or can you tell, or how do you tell or know?
Speaker 2:I will admit I am not super great at it. I have difficulty recognizing people's faces just out in the wild. It's it's just a flight of Sorry.
Speaker 1:Can you tell the difference between us, or how do you tell the difference between us? Or does that matter or no impact you at all?
Speaker 2:When I really I really focus on it, I can tell the difference. I I feel like I should be more sensitive to it. I know there are other people who can tell right away. But as I said, I just think of all of you as you. But if and whenever I specifically talk to one of you by name, it always seems to embarrass you or make you feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:There's been such a long time of having to
Speaker 2:Hide.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. And not just waiting for a diagnosis for her to know about that or whatever, but because we had therapists in the past that were not good in different incidents that happened where we were overly exposed. So now we are still working through some layers of needing to protect ourselves a bit, I guess. Building safety maybe.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's a number of factors that, you know, made me not notice necessarily for a long time that there were different alters coming out, and that maybe keep me from focusing on that now. Like, I I don't usually worry about which one of you it is, although I know I do interact with some of you differently than others. So, yeah, I think when I'm focusing on it, I can tell, but I I usually don't worry about it very much.
Speaker 1:Well, and also, like, you can't tell people apart anyway. Like, do you have that facial thing where you can't
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm, like, facially illiterate. I have a very hard time telling people's faces apart.
Speaker 1:And you don't remember them when you met them. I don't mean us. I mean, like, even when we're just out in public.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. People I've had, like, one on one meetings with more than one time. Will see in another context and have no idea who they are. I know.
Speaker 1:But different but that's a facial recognition thing. It's different than dissociative because that's one thing we joke about. Like, that happens to me too. But it's because I don't remember it. You just don't remember the name that goes with the face.
Speaker 1:But when you talk to them and have the context, you remember talking to them. You just don't remember their face and what that connects to. Yeah. There's gotta be a word that. Somebody will know and will tell us.
Speaker 1:So, like, what about the outside kids, like, parenting? Is that scary for you that we're in the house with your children?
Speaker 2:No. Not even slightly.
Speaker 1:What is that like having different ones of us interact with the children?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's it's exactly like what I was saying before about how I think about me. There are times where I'm really playful with the children and times I'm really stern with the children and times I think I'm doing a great job and times I think I'm doing a terrible job. The difference is that all of those are me, and each one of those is someone different for you.
Speaker 1:Anything else?
Speaker 2:What what other questions do you have for me?
Speaker 1:Do you do different things with different people?
Speaker 2:Not intentionally. Think
Speaker 1:Maybe I guess my question is do you feel like we adapt to you or you adapt to us? Mix?
Speaker 2:I think it's a mix. I mean, if if one of you who is very serious and, like, task oriented is out, they're gonna be much less open to watching a silly movie.
Speaker 1:But Yeah. She doesn't watch movies
Speaker 2:at If the plan is to watch a silly movie, then one of you that is really into that kind of thing might come out then. Also, it's funny when we watch like a a Star Wars movie or something, you'll come out saying, I think I'm just too dumb to understand movies like that. When I think what it is is that there's like multiple alters jostling for attention to watch the movie. And so, really, you haven't seen the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Me and John fighting for snacks. Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's true.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a big deal for us. It has not always been the case, like, in the past. But with you and with where we are, like, we gel together so well. It's really kind of a miracle for, like, lack of a better word. But I think everyone's relationship with you is very unique.
Speaker 1:And so
Speaker 2:And I I very intentionally love all of you, like, on purpose.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Early on, when I was first learning about it, I sent emails to different altars
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:To make sure that they knew that I knew they were there and that I cared about them. There are times that some of you like to make fun of other ones of you.
Speaker 1:That's me.
Speaker 2:And I never ever play along because that would feel like cheating.
Speaker 1:You bust me every time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No.
Speaker 1:I I'm, like, in so much trouble.
Speaker 2:I love all of you. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1:Am I the only one who gets in trouble? It's true.
Speaker 2:You were not the only one who gets in trouble, but you were the only one who makes fun of the other one.
Speaker 1:I know you say the only one who makes trouble.
Speaker 2:No. But I love all of you. I do.
Speaker 1:Everyone's relationship is different, though. So there's no like, we don't love you the same. So I don't mean by degrees or amount, but I mean we enjoy different aspects of our relationship is different with everybody. And I think part of the difference too is when you're saying, like, you love us and love all of us, love for you isn't just a word. Right.
Speaker 1:Love for you means service.
Speaker 2:It's a willingness to serve.
Speaker 1:A willingness to serve. And so like you do stuff very specific and very active. It's an active love. Like, love in a verb. You're not just saying, oh, I love you or I want attention from you or I want like, it's not anything.
Speaker 2:Do feel the feeling of love for you, but because I feel that, I want to make you happy.
Speaker 1:Right. And so you're super attentive and you do these things that are about showing your love in different ways. It's not like a classic marriage that's just terrible and unsupportive and Both people are lonely and it's awful. Like, we're laughing, but I know that. That because before when we were married, like, I was in relationships where, like, it was terrible and I cried every night or whatever.
Speaker 1:Like, it was just awful. And so to have found you is such a big deal. Like, don't make me cry. I'm not gonna be a big old sap. But but what I'm saying is what one of the things that we've had to learn is that when you say that, it means something different than when other people have said that in the past.
Speaker 1:Because even that could just be either a really big trigger or not necessarily something to believe or have much faith in, but because there's such, like, what's the word, congruence between your words and your behavior, I think it increases safety for us a lot, like a great deal.
Speaker 2:Good.
Speaker 1:So that we are able to connect with you. More of us can connect with you more and differently than any experience we've had in the past. And that's part of what makes it unique.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm glad I can offer that.
Speaker 1:And you're also respectful for when it's hard. Like, you give us time and space when we need to do our journaling or when we just need to be alone or when there's a stupid bear on the bed or, like, could you please go buy a backpack this bear could fit in because I'm not taking it in public? Yeah. Like, you're so participatory.
Speaker 2:Well, I am also very grateful that you are somebody who expresses your needs clearly. I don't have to guess about what you need, and I really appreciate that. So I know how to meet your needs. I know when I need to just leave you alone, and I never take it personally. I know when you need time to do something.
Speaker 2:I know when there's an altar out who has a particular task they need to do, and I and I can't disrupt them. I don't take that. I mean, I don't why would I take that personally? It's that person doing their
Speaker 1:job. It's amazing, though. I think part of why we can be so high functioning and work together so well is because I mean, I know that's on us. Like, I don't mean that in a codependent way, but I mean part of what really helps and is supportive is because of what you just said. And a lot of what we are able to do is because our relationship is so strong and because you do respect not just our boundaries, but also our freedom of expression and the different ways that we have different needs and different things we have to accomplish.
Speaker 1:And, like, you've never limited that or pressured us to be something different or to do something differently and just to let us be ourselves. And that brings just right there. Just that peace alone brings so much healing and collaboration in and of itself as well as, like, the strength and freedom to be able to improve other things and learn other ways. Does that make sense at all? Yeah.
Speaker 1:I didn't know this was gonna turn into a love fest. Okay. So we had our love fest. That was fantastic. But okay.
Speaker 1:Maybe I should edit that because it's gonna sound different than what I said.
Speaker 2:Naughty.
Speaker 1:What I mean is, like, okay, so those are some of the good things or how we've normalized it for ourselves, like where we're at on those things. Tell me what is hard difficult or challenging or whatever word you wanna use, politically correct or otherwise, about DID itself or about living with someone with DID or about being married to someone with DID or being married to me. Safe zone. It's all good.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm not gonna be very helpful here because, honestly, I don't have any hard things about being married to you.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean so what's hard about DID? Like
Speaker 2:I think all of the hard parts of DID are the things that you experience. I have not experienced any hard parts of DID.
Speaker 1:What what do you mean the hard parts I've experienced?
Speaker 2:Well, because some of you are still coming to terms with the fact you have DID. And some of you are really stressed out about exploring some of the trauma that made it happen in the first place. Oh. And I know all of you feel really anxious about interacting with people, and is someone gonna recognize what's going on? I'm fine.
Speaker 2:I don't have any of those problems. Oh
Speaker 1:my goodness. Okay. Tell me what you said last night. Can you remember it? Because that blew my brains out.
Speaker 1:Wait. I said it wrong again.
Speaker 2:My mind?
Speaker 1:Blew my mind.
Speaker 2:So you were saying, why is it when I think I'm writing something funny, other people think it's something really sad? Something like that?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I said, part of it is just a dry sense of humor. And part of it is your specific job on the team
Speaker 1:is Like me specifically.
Speaker 2:You specifically, you're sort of a protective covering. You have that
Speaker 1:that
Speaker 2:level of joy and playfulness. But it doesn't necessarily mean that you were not having sad or scared feelings. And that when you are writing something that sometimes those actual underlying feelings sneak out. So while you think you are expressing something funny, you are actually expressing something more than just that.
Speaker 1:I don't know why I married him, you guys. These are the therapy bombs he drops.
Speaker 2:Was the dregs at the bottom of the marriage barrel. She's like, well, I guess I'll
Speaker 1:dig in. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:What has been hard about having DID and living with me?
Speaker 1:That's like a double dog dare.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:I think mostly honestly, at least from my perspective, it's fighting for time. Mhmm. Like, I just wanna chill with you, but we have real life things. Like, you have work and she has work. We have house things.
Speaker 1:Like she always has to do chores or help with their homework or whatever. And then there's outside kids to deal with and there's always inside kids to deal with. And not getting to do what I want, not getting all the money I want, like just be on an allowance like I'm 12. I mean those are like practical things they're not I don't feel like I'm in danger or it's hard that way. Just real life is hard sometimes having to share so much.
Speaker 1:But also even besides the internal stuff, we're a big family anyway. We have lots of kids. And so it's just it's just a lot to have to share that much. And
Speaker 2:How has it changed since opening up about DID?
Speaker 1:I get to be a lot milder. I get to be a sassier.
Speaker 2:It's true.
Speaker 1:And so I feel more free, I guess, but there's still boundaries on that. And so in some ways, I get to be more myself, but in other ways, that means I have to learn more things because I'm making choices now, like, just for me, not just to hide.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. So before, you were consciously working to blend in.
Speaker 1:Right. But only a year. But also at the same time, I feel less alone because there were times before that I got myself into messes and couldn't ask for help so directly because it wouldn't have made sense how I got into the mess. Mhmm. And I don't mean always something big and dramatic, but I mean, even like my bandanas for example, like I really like wearing my bandanas, but it wasn't consistent with everything else all the time.
Speaker 1:And so it's hard.
Speaker 2:For the record, I probably would not have noticed anything if you had worn bandanas.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm just trying to think of like a I'm just trying to think of like a neutral example of this is not trauma related.
Speaker 2:Oh, sure.
Speaker 1:And and again, a lot of that was just about me. Like, I didn't know that I could, like, so easily just do my own thing. When when we married you and it was like you were good, like, that freaked me out. Good freaked me out. Kind like the therapist freaks me out.
Speaker 1:The same reason. Like she's very chill, but very direct and very honest and keeps it safe, and that freaks me out. Even though it's good, and you do the same thing to me. Like, all this caring and concerning and all this
Speaker 2:You're just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Speaker 1:Right. And so many shoes have dropped.
Speaker 2:So many shoes.
Speaker 1:But not yours, and not the therapist, and not our family. We're okay, and that trips me out sometimes. So I guess that's a hard thing too. I think and I have to be careful here, because I'm I'm I am only allowed to speak for myself. Right?
Speaker 1:Like, that was one of the deals of the podcast.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:I can't speak for someone else. So I don't wanna tell her story, but I think one of the things that really changed everything, obviously, was when the parents died.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Because we had worked for so long to not just be safe. We had worked for so long, not just to, like, be safe from them or how to interact safely with them, But so much energy had been gone had gone into so much energy had gone into protecting ourselves and dealing with that, that when they were actually dead, like legit dead, everything kind of fell apart. And part of it was because it had been so hard for so long, and part of it was because we were safe now, part of it was like her layers of guilt to be so relieved that they are gone. And like there's so many so many layers, but it was so huge and such a big thing. That's when everything fell apart.
Speaker 1:But it's also when we chose you back.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, had already chosen to get you married. I mean We had already chosen to marry you. Mhmm. But I mean, I think that was the moment. I'm thinking specifically after the car accident when, like, I, me, I drove over to her house
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And wanted just to run. And, like, I wanted alcohol, and I wanted to smoke, and I wanted to do everything that I was working really hard not to do, but and I wanted to just disappear. Like, in my head, like, we could totally just let the one that runs run, and we could have gotten out of there. But we didn't, and that was the first time we didn't. We stayed and we didn't wipe out everything or start over or run away or disappear.
Speaker 1:We stayed and we called you, I called you. It was like I choose you. I need you here right now because this is hard. Yeah. And you came.
Speaker 1:And I think that was really, at least for me, a turning point. Not just in my relationship with you, but, like, in my capacity to be in a relationship with you. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:It does.
Speaker 1:Also, you make me treats.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:I don't get to eat them.
Speaker 2:You don't. Sure you do.
Speaker 1:Sometimes.
Speaker 2:We have we have date nights.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But he takes all the food.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Not always and not all of it. But, you know, it's just funny.
Speaker 2:That is pretty hilarious.
Speaker 1:Wow. That went a lot deeper than what I intended. You're so slippery. This is why I hate therapy and hate being married, you guys. Can you think of anything else?
Speaker 2:Mm-mm.
Speaker 1:Oh, say bye.
Speaker 2:Bye.
Speaker 1:Thanks for doing that. That was pretty brave. Thank you for listening. Your support really helps us feel less alone while we sort through all of this and learn together.