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Confessions of a Shop Owner is hosted by Mike Allen, a third-generation shop owner, perpetual pot-stirrer, and brutally honest opinion sharer. In this weekly podcast, Mike shares his missteps so you don’t have to repeat them. Along the way, he chats with other industry personalities who’ve messed up, too, pulling back the curtain on the realities of running an independent auto repair shop. But this podcast isn’t just about Mike’s journey. It’s about confronting the divisive and questionable tactics many shop owners and managers use. Mike is here to stir the pot and address the painful truths while offering a way forward. Together, we’ll tackle the frustrations, shake things up, and help create a better future for the auto repair industry.
Lucas Underwood [00:00:00]:
Mike's homers are EVs, but that's a little bit different, you know? Well, I mean, not EVs, they're just battery.
Mike Allen [00:00:05]:
Oh, I think that was a blowjob joke. Was that a blowjob joke? You want me to catch your blue ball? Is that what that was?
Tonnika Haynes [00:00:11]:
Yes, I'm in here.
Mike Allen [00:00:16]:
The following program features a bunch of doofuses talking about the automotive aftermarket. The stuff we or our guests may say do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of our peers, our sponsors, or any other associations we may have. There may be some spicy language in this show, so if you get your feelings hurt easily, you should probably just move along. So without further ado, here's your host, Mike Allen, with Confessions of a Shop Owner presented by techmetric, the best software in the history of ever.
Lucas Underwood [00:00:52]:
Swipe it from. Oh, y' all know that too, man. So good. So good.
Mike Allen [00:01:00]:
There's all sorts of other Dora videos on the Internet.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:05]:
I don't think I'm gonna be looking those up.
Mike Allen [00:01:08]:
Like you don't already know what I'm talking about.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:10]:
I. I'm worried that I do know what you're talking about, but not for the reasons that you know what you're talking about.
Mike Allen [00:01:15]:
You are the dirtiest man I've ever met.
Lucas Underwood [00:01:17]:
Yeah, that's true.
Mike Allen [00:01:18]:
And it's not close. Yeah. So I was just making a joke for your benefit. Benji posted yesterday, they're going on a road trip and they got a big 15 passenger van. I saw that and I was like, what's a bang bus? Please explain it to me. And then you step in and just with a screenshot, you Google, what's a bang bus?
Lucas Underwood [00:01:37]:
Does anybody know the Benji story? Have either one of you ever heard the Benji story?
Mike Allen [00:01:41]:
Which Benji story?
Lucas Underwood [00:01:42]:
The Benji story at the community college that I have on video that he is so bothered by. So he was talking to one of my apprentices, right? And we're doing a panel, and I asked Jim and Benji to do the panel, but it was, like, completely out of Benji's. Like he just wasn't expecting it and didn't really know where to run with it. And at some point in this panel, he looks at Nico, who is my employee, and he said, at least you have a boss that won't come down your throat. And I swear to God, the entire room shut down. I mean, everybody just burst into laughter. It was awesome.
Mike Allen [00:02:14]:
He's a Marine. Come on. He had to know what he was doing.
Lucas Underwood [00:02:17]:
No, I. No, when you. When he realized it. When it came. When it came all the way through. When it came down his throat, he knew exactly what had happened. I mean, we all have gaffes, right? Like, it.
Mike Allen [00:02:29]:
Not me. We are. You have to be very science. Come on.
Lucas Underwood [00:02:34]:
I'm so proud of you.
Tonnika Haynes [00:02:36]:
I'm so proud of me, too. What am I proud of you for?
Lucas Underwood [00:02:38]:
I am proud of you because I feel like just a number of years ago, you were afraid to come to aste.
Tonnika Haynes [00:02:45]:
You.
Lucas Underwood [00:02:46]:
You didn't want to come to aste, And I felt like I was like, man, she's so cool. I wish she would come to this and hang out with us. And it felt like I was having to work really hard to get you to even, like, come out at all. And you really wanted to be at home, and you didn't want to be part of what we were doing. And now here we are. You got a podcast, and you're doing really cool stuff, and you're on the board, and you're like, everybody wants to
Mike Allen [00:03:08]:
hang out with you. Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:03:09]:
Everybody's looking up.
Mike Allen [00:03:10]:
Can't walk across the lobby at the hotel because you get pulled in 100 directions.
Lucas Underwood [00:03:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. All the.
Tonnika Haynes [00:03:15]:
I love it. But then it's exhausting.
Lucas Underwood [00:03:17]:
I. You know what I really like about it is I like all of these young women who come up and talk to you that are in this. Yeah. Because I think that so many of them feel like they don't belong, and, like, it's almost like you give them permission to belong, I think.
Tonnika Haynes [00:03:30]:
But it's just. Was it Rick? Like, that's just a story you tell me?
Mike Allen [00:03:33]:
Yeah.
Tonnika Haynes [00:03:33]:
Nobody told me, oh, what are you doing in here? Nobody ever said that.
Lucas Underwood [00:03:37]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:03:37]:
For sure.
Lucas Underwood [00:03:37]:
Well, I mean, I think that we do that.
Mike Allen [00:03:39]:
Let's be fair. It's gotta be intimidating. I mean, you. Now, it's not you from five years ago because you've developed relationships with all the people that come to these events. Five years ago, you're a black woman showing up by herself into a room full of old white dudes.
Tonnika Haynes [00:03:56]:
That's exactly what I said when I walked in the door. It was like, I called my service advisor at the time. I was like, amber. I was like, it's just a whole bunch of old, white, grumpy people.
Mike Allen [00:04:04]:
And they're like, we weren't grumpy. We just looked like we're grumpy.
Tonnika Haynes [00:04:08]:
And then everybody looked like they were grumpy.
Lucas Underwood [00:04:09]:
Oh, no, that was the Bob. That was the Bob days.
Mike Allen [00:04:13]:
Bob did a great job growing the association.
Lucas Underwood [00:04:16]:
He did.
Mike Allen [00:04:17]:
And he saved the association in a time of need. And helped grow the expo.
Lucas Underwood [00:04:22]:
And look, I'll just tell you right now. I mean, there were a lot of good things. There were. I mean, I got involved because of him. You got more involved because of him.
Mike Allen [00:04:30]:
He was passionate, and he knew the industry, and he talked to people, and he went door to door from shop to shop like nobody I've ever seen do.
Lucas Underwood [00:04:39]:
Yeah. Oh, let me tell you something. I'm. I'm kind of feeling like there's a deal here. I'm. I'm not gonna lie to you. I feel like there's a little bit
Mike Allen [00:04:49]:
of a deal here.
Lucas Underwood [00:04:49]:
I've not said anything to him about it, but I feel like he just thought, oh, well, Tanika and Emby are coming in. They'll clean this up. It's fine.
Mike Allen [00:04:56]:
It's like.
Lucas Underwood [00:04:56]:
It's kind of like his shop. He's like, yes, I know. I've just destroyed it. Yeah. He's like, I know. I've already destroyed my shop.
Mike Allen [00:05:03]:
I checked all the.
Lucas Underwood [00:05:04]:
Fix that, Right.
Mike Allen [00:05:05]:
I'm gonna give me two black women to come in here and clean up everything that the old white guys fucked up. And about time. And if it goes. Look, if it goes great, I laid the groundwork for success. And if it's a shit show, I'm gonna be like, zim. Black women fucking everything up.
Lucas Underwood [00:05:27]:
Oh, I'm telling you, I. I think there's a reason that Mike was trying to fade himself out pretty quickly, because he knew, like, oh, man, they will. They will end me over this.
Mike Allen [00:05:37]:
Well, also, you know, you have a level of competency, and you can grow an organization until you start bumping up against the roof of your level of competency.
Lucas Underwood [00:05:45]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:05:46]:
And I think it's pretty obvious that about six or seven days into my presidency, we had bumped up against the roof of that level of competency. Yeah. And somehow I managed to just.
Lucas Underwood [00:05:57]:
She thought hours.
Mike Allen [00:05:58]:
I pulled the clutch in and just coasted all the way to the finish line. And now you guys are having to clean up all the mess that I left behind, and I just. Thank you.
Tonnika Haynes [00:06:06]:
Appreciate it. Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:06:07]:
Look, I just. Look, man, I love you very much. You're easily one of my very best friends, and I just need to say I told you so. That's all I'm gonna say. I mean, that's really.
Mike Allen [00:06:16]:
I will tell you, you are the one that suckered me into being the vp. Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:06:21]:
And then, like, I don't know if you noticed this, but I maneuvered very aggressively.
Tonnika Haynes [00:06:25]:
Why the heck did you do it?
Mike Allen [00:06:28]:
He did it. Oh.
Tonnika Haynes [00:06:31]:
I said you set him up.
Lucas Underwood [00:06:32]:
I did.
Mike Allen [00:06:36]:
I had only been on the board. I had only been on the board for a year, so I didn't know what I was getting myself into. And then it was like, you know, vice presidency is not a ton of work. It's mostly just a couple of. It's like a couple of meetings a month.
Lucas Underwood [00:06:52]:
And I was telling Trisha, I'm like, gosh, I have so much going on in my life right now. Things are so complex right now. And, you know, I.
Mike Allen [00:07:00]:
Don't you wish your life right now was as complex as it was back then when you were having money?
Lucas Underwood [00:07:05]:
I'd pay money for that. I would pay money.
Mike Allen [00:07:08]:
All by frame of reference, brother.
Tonnika Haynes [00:07:09]:
Well, you guys have to be superstar podcasters and all of that stuff.
Lucas Underwood [00:07:13]:
This is my. This is my relief. This is really. Yeah. This is where I relax and can, like, actually see the world for what it is for me.
Mike Allen [00:07:21]:
I want to have a conversation, the three of us, because you've been podcasting for several years now. I've been podcasting for a year. You've been podcasting for a month. Right, right. So we got three. We got three levels of maturity in our podcast.
Lucas Underwood [00:07:35]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:07:38]:
You have allowed it to become, I believe, from. From the outside looking in and from our friendship. It's what you're most passionate about is maybe not specifically the podcast, but being involved in the industry as a whole and. And being a voice for shop owners and speaking to shop owners to try to help them. Right. Maybe to the detriment of your business.
Lucas Underwood [00:08:00]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Mike Allen [00:08:01]:
Because of your travel schedule and your attention and how much time it takes versus time in the business. I started a podcast because you beat me into submission, telling me to start a podcast over and over and over. And it's a lot of fun, and I really enjoy it. And it's a little bit intoxicating because people are like, oh, you're so funny.
Tonnika Haynes [00:08:21]:
Right.
Mike Allen [00:08:22]:
And who doesn't love hearing people tell them that, you know, that they're awesome?
Lucas Underwood [00:08:25]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:08:26]:
And I stopped paying attention to my business to the detriment of my business. So I'm here to tell you, girl, because you're gonna be fucking awesome.
Lucas Underwood [00:08:33]:
Yeah. It's gonna be a new show on the scene.
Mike Allen [00:08:36]:
You released your second episode today. I was with Jeff Compton. I think you recorded it at Apex. Is that right? When did you record it?
Lucas Underwood [00:08:42]:
No, no, it was recorded just the other day.
Mike Allen [00:08:45]:
Oh, well, the screen cap that he used for the thumbnail was. But you are going to grow more rapidly than either of us have Just because of the energy that you bring to it and because of your style and your brand.
Lucas Underwood [00:09:00]:
And there's a framework now. We have a framework for how this works.
Mike Allen [00:09:03]:
Don't let it take your eye off the ball.
Tonnika Haynes [00:09:05]:
Oh, no.
Mike Allen [00:09:05]:
Yeah.
Tonnika Haynes [00:09:06]:
I think I kind of watched you
Mike Allen [00:09:08]:
watched me fuck my business up.
Lucas Underwood [00:09:11]:
Well, I think there's a lot that went into you fucking your business.
Mike Allen [00:09:15]:
Mostly it was me. Mostly it was me fucking me, too.
Lucas Underwood [00:09:18]:
Me, too. And I'll be honest with you, I ran into a wall, much like you did with the presidency of asta, where I recognized I'm just not capable of running my business at the level it should be right now. Right. I'm just not good at it.
Tonnika Haynes [00:09:32]:
Did you not put the people where they should be, or did you were not at that point that you wanted to put the people.
Lucas Underwood [00:09:37]:
I love people like I. I will sacrifice what's best for me and my family for other human beings because I love people, and I want people to be happy. I want people to be healthy. I want what's best for other people. And sometimes I see things in other people that they don't see in themselves and they don't want for themselves. And so I have spent a lot of energy trying to raise up and develop culture, teams and people to the detriment of my business.
Tonnika Haynes [00:10:10]:
I stopped that a couple months ago.
Lucas Underwood [00:10:12]:
Yeah.
Tonnika Haynes [00:10:12]:
You know, I know how it feels to be Captain Save a Hoe.
Lucas Underwood [00:10:15]:
Yeah.
Tonnika Haynes [00:10:15]:
Yeah. He's like, oh, yeah, I can I see something in you? But then that person doesn't see anything in themselves.
Mike Allen [00:10:20]:
Yeah.
Tonnika Haynes [00:10:21]:
Like, the last person I looked at, him, I said, you know what? I'm done. I don't do my own recruiting anymore. Nope. I hired Sarah. I was like, no, I am not running the business based on my feelings anymore. Now, once you're in there, you're established, and you my people, I got you. But I'm not going to waste my time loving you more than you love yourself.
Lucas Underwood [00:10:40]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:10:41]:
Just to recap, Captain Save a ho. Captain Save a ho. All right, Copy.
Tonnika Haynes [00:10:45]:
I'm not here to save everybody.
Lucas Underwood [00:10:47]:
I.
Mike Allen [00:10:48]:
Would we save a bro for you?
Tonnika Haynes [00:10:50]:
Huh?
Mike Allen [00:10:50]:
Would we save a bro for you,
Tonnika Haynes [00:10:51]:
Captain Save a brew? Yeah, it depends on.
Mike Allen [00:10:57]:
You employ a higher percentage of hose than. Yeah, I'm mostly bros. I've only got a couple hoes, so.
Tonnika Haynes [00:11:04]:
But, I mean, I've got.
Lucas Underwood [00:11:06]:
I'm offended you said that.
Mike Allen [00:11:07]:
Are they in different area codes?
Lucas Underwood [00:11:09]:
Yes. Yes, yours definitely are. I don't know, Tanika. I mean, I. I think that I. I had this really wild experience Right. Like, so somebody I really care about and cared about and they. They really hate my guts now came to work for me.
Lucas Underwood [00:11:30]:
And right when they came to work for me, they basically told me, hey, you're a bad leader and you're a bad manager, and I don't think that you should be managing the shop. And I said, okay, well, I'll go find a manager. And so I went on search for a manager and I found somebody and they checked all the boxes. I talked to coaches, I talked to my mentors, I talked to all these people, and this person checked the boxes and I. I look up and I realize that the person who told me that is still having the same number of problems and the same challenges and the same issues that they were having before. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. And now I've got a giant mess of a business that I've got to clean up.
Tonnika Haynes [00:12:09]:
Let me. Okay. So my dad did something when I was in college, so I'm 20 something years old. And I didn't agree with what he was saying, and I was mad. I don't like the he until everybody. So I went was family gossip. Like, oh, dad did this and dad did that. And, you know, they were like, oh, I wouldn't work for him.
Tonnika Haynes [00:12:26]:
You know, you don't have to work for your dad. You don't have to do that, whatever. And he got back to daddy. Right. I don't know what it was, but I remember what he said when it got back to him. Said, next time you want to go talk about me or you want to get an opinion of me, make sure you get it from somebody that's better than me.
Lucas Underwood [00:12:42]:
Yeah. Amen.
Tonnika Haynes [00:12:43]:
Like, so if you took that information that you were a horrible leader from the guy that was mopping the floor, then that's on you.
Lucas Underwood [00:12:49]:
This was somebody who, I mean, I.
Mike Allen [00:12:52]:
I see where you're coming from, but a dude who's mopping the floor can tell if his boss is a terrible boss. But what you don't get it from is the dude who you fired who used to mop the floor, and you fired him because he had a drug addiction problem. But he didn't want to tell anybody else that. That you gave him 10 chances and that he came to work late and that he was asleep in a customer's car because he was stoned, you know?
Lucas Underwood [00:13:20]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:13:21]:
Is this real?
Lucas Underwood [00:13:22]:
No.
Tonnika Haynes [00:13:22]:
Oh, you're just making up something.
Mike Allen [00:13:25]:
Yes, I'm totally making. And it's like, oh, Mike's an asshole. He's a bad leader. Like, look I'm an. And I'm a bad leader, but I wasn't an asshole to you, bro. You're a fucking drug addict and I gave you a ton of chances.
Lucas Underwood [00:13:39]:
Well, and that was the thing, is there was no accountability. And this is somebody that I felt like I could trust. This was somebody that I felt like really, really was part of the industry and engaged in the industry. And I thought that they were in a very different spot than they were. But why did you think that I had. This was a relationship that was multi years old. This wasn't something that happened overnight.
Tonnika Haynes [00:14:02]:
They got you with an okie dokie. Yeah, you can Okie doke.
Lucas Underwood [00:14:05]:
Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, and so now I think we've got Jade's back. Jade's managing the shop. I think we've got a good grasp on things. The shop's not doing the revenue that it should. The expenses are way too high.
Mike Allen [00:14:20]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:14:22]:
And the family business stuff is consuming a lot of energy, too. But I think we're. I think we're headed in the right direction.
Mike Allen [00:14:30]:
Are you traveling anymore between. I guess we should specify that we're recording this at Vision. Yeah, Vision 2026. You guys have been here for two days? One day. I just got here today. I had my kids play last night. It was awesome. They did great and flew in this morning.
Mike Allen [00:14:49]:
Have you been able to kind of reel it back a little bit? Are you doing anything between now and Tectonic?
Lucas Underwood [00:14:53]:
Yeah, I've got to go to. Going to go to New Jersey for the Northeast show. I looked up and I was going to be home four days in April, nine days in April.
Mike Allen [00:15:05]:
April's a busy month for sure.
Lucas Underwood [00:15:07]:
And so I said, I don't know that this is sustainable. Right.
Mike Allen [00:15:11]:
That's not. That's not what you signed up. It's not what your wife signed up for.
Lucas Underwood [00:15:15]:
Right? Well, and I mean, like, dude, that's going into the busy season for the family business. That's getting. That's where the shop starts hitting the busy season. I just. And I nixed them and I upset some people. I hurt feelings, and I feel really bad about it. But I just said, like, initially, we said, hey, you're not going to comp our rooms. I'm not going to be able to come.
Lucas Underwood [00:15:33]:
But there was a bit of personal, like, hey, I don't. And believe it or not, y' all pick on David all the time. He came to me and he said, no, I'm fucking nixing this. We're not doing this. This is too much. Like, because the family business is open seven days a week. I work seven days a week. Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:15:51]:
I work Saturday and Sunday. Now, not every Saturday and Sunday, not all day Saturday and Sunday.
Mike Allen [00:15:55]:
But does that make you an evil business owner?
Lucas Underwood [00:15:58]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Mike Allen [00:15:59]:
Making your employees getting rich off of your employees labor seven days a week.
Lucas Underwood [00:16:04]:
Yeah, it's bad. It's really bad.
Mike Allen [00:16:06]:
I'm only open five days a week, Lucas. Well, you're advocating for seven days a week, not less than nine months. Yeah, there's a whole story about that. We'll share it one day.
Tonnika Haynes [00:16:16]:
So.
Lucas Underwood [00:16:17]:
I love you so much.
Mike Allen [00:16:19]:
Lucas. Tried to bait me into that story just a minute ago, and I didn't. I didn't take the stinky bait. You guys both know the story, so. But yeah, we did what we could be, right? That's funny, though, because you have walkie talkie videos with hundreds of thousands of views and comments and shares and loves about. You should be able to do your business five days a week.
Lucas Underwood [00:16:45]:
And I think in our business. Well, but I mean, here's the thing is like, theoretically, we could close, and we did for a while. We could close Tuesday and Wednesday with the other business and give them days off, though. I'm gonna tell you something.
Tonnika Haynes [00:17:01]:
It is a much money and you're evil. So.
Lucas Underwood [00:17:03]:
Well, but here's the other thing is that is a completely different demographic. If I've learned anything from this whole thing.
Mike Allen [00:17:10]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:17:10]:
It's that human beings in different phases in different parts of their lives behave immensely differently.
Mike Allen [00:17:17]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:17:18]:
And so these, like, you go from. And I'm not saying that the people there aren't skilled. Please don't take it as that. It's not what I'm saying, but I
Mike Allen [00:17:25]:
am saying absolutely what he's saying.
Lucas Underwood [00:17:27]:
There's a difference between the shop and the type of work that they do and the skill level that they have and the financial requirements they have. And then what you do up there.
Mike Allen [00:17:37]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:17:38]:
The. The stress level up there is very differently or very different.
Mike Allen [00:17:45]:
Who you got behind us?
Lucas Underwood [00:17:47]:
Nobody's behind you. I just can't believe you didn't hit record on that camera.
Tonnika Haynes [00:17:50]:
Are you serious right now?
Mike Allen [00:17:55]:
I will kill you.
Lucas Underwood [00:17:59]:
But.
Mike Allen [00:17:59]:
But y' all grow up.
Lucas Underwood [00:18:04]:
But the people up there are subjected to a different type of stress. They're subjected to a different type of environment.
Mike Allen [00:18:14]:
It's retail customer service type stress. Right?
Lucas Underwood [00:18:17]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:18:17]:
The stressed out mom with three kids who are misbehaving and tearing up the store.
Lucas Underwood [00:18:23]:
And so it's a very different environment. I think it's awoken me to and me and you have talked a lot about that. There's a lot of different ways to do business. And I used to paint with a very broad brush, and I think I was influenced by people that we care about and love very much. And I'm bad for that. And I have got myself in bad situations because I've listened to people that have a very hard line approach. And I'm learning that maybe everything doesn't have to be such a hard line approach.
Mike Allen [00:18:51]:
It's not one size fits all, man.
Lucas Underwood [00:18:53]:
Yeah, for sure.
Mike Allen [00:18:53]:
That's the glory of the independent aftermarket, is that you get to do it the way you want to do it.
Lucas Underwood [00:18:57]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:18:57]:
As long as you're ethical and you treat your people right and you treat your customers right. I don't give a how you do it, man. Go make. Go make that money.
Lucas Underwood [00:19:03]:
Yep, for sure. For sure.
Tonnika Haynes [00:19:06]:
I love when you're sitting in a seminar or in a class or whatever, and this is the way to do it. This is the way to do it. And the people with the narrow lines, they don't see it like, okay, yeah, they gave you all these ingredients, but if you don't like garlic powder, don't put it in the dish, don't do it. You don't just have to dismiss the whole thing.
Mike Allen [00:19:22]:
Well, and I think one of the big problems. We are independent. We are very fractured as an industry. Right. Because there's so many different ways to do it, and we all believe that our way is the only way to do it. But you go talk to, like, talking head guru, Coach X. And they've got their fans and their detractors. Why? And they've got their fans and their detractors, and they all believe that their guy is the best thing since sliced bread.
Mike Allen [00:19:52]:
And this guy is fucking Satan. Right. And here's the deal. 90% of what they teach is the same.
Lucas Underwood [00:19:59]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Mike Allen [00:20:00]:
And so, like, how people get so
Tonnika Haynes [00:20:02]:
wrapped up in the country, too.
Lucas Underwood [00:20:04]:
Yeah, it's. There is a bit of a cultish mentality to it. There is a bit of a over the top. This is.
Mike Allen [00:20:13]:
Well, I can get it. If you've been working 90 hours a week, working your fingers to the bone, you're stressed out, your marriage is on the rocks because you're never home, you don't know your kids and you're making $40,000 a year because you don't know how to run a business, and somebody drags you to a coaching event and you sign up with a coach, your life is going to change dramatically in year one. Period. As long as you're not a dumbass and you're not willing to make changes, if you're willing to make changes, your life will be better than it's ever been before just getting some coaching. And so it's natural for that person to have a fierce loyalty to and belief in the person that pulled them out of that ditch.
Lucas Underwood [00:20:51]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:20:54]:
But that. That doesn't mean that it's the only way to do it.
Tonnika Haynes [00:20:58]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:20:58]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:20:58]:
And if you go to this class and you're like, you know what? I just. I disagree with free diag.
Lucas Underwood [00:21:02]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:21:03]:
That doesn't mean that everything that happens at Car fix is terrible.
Tonnika Haynes [00:21:05]:
Right?
Lucas Underwood [00:21:06]:
Right. I mean, just because I know car.
Mike Allen [00:21:10]:
I disagree with cheap oil changes. That doesn't mean that the free diag. Okay. I disagree with Saturdays. That. So. Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:21:17]:
I disagree with wearing your lanyard, which is rubbing your microphone. Braxton had nothing to do with this baby doll, I swear to God. You know, and. And I think over the years of having all of these discussions, right? Like, because we've had some really deep discussions with people over the years of all the years of having these discussions with people. I probably shouldn't say this, but I will. I answer between 250, 300, sometimes 400 messages a week, right?
Mike Allen [00:21:53]:
Nope.
Lucas Underwood [00:21:54]:
And I talk to a lot of shop owners and a lot of technicians who are in, like, a really bad place, right. We sat across. There's a dude sitting in that chair right there, and he was telling his story today, and he was telling about his shop and, you know, really sharing about how awesome his shop is this, that, and the other. Right? And then somehow we shifted into this thing about health. And he said, you know, he said I was ready to retire at 45. He said I was done. He said, I'm 40 years old. He said I was gonna make it five more years.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:22]:
I was gonna be done. And David and I kind of looked at each other because it sounded like we just turned on a different side road, right? Like, went in this completely different direction. And he said, yeah. He said, I had some health problems. David said, well, you know, David's on this big health kick. He said, well, what's your health problems? He said it was a heart thing. And he said, man, he said I was so stressed out. He said I was working seven days a week, he says, working a ton of hours.
Lucas Underwood [00:22:44]:
I gained a lot of weight. He said I made up over 300 pounds. He said I was a big boy. And he said this weird thing started happening. He said, went home. And he said, When I would sit down, when I finally got home, 1 o', clock, 2 o' clock in the morning, he said I'd sit down. He said my heart would race up to 214, 230 beats a minute. And he said, I feel really weird, get really dizzy.
Lucas Underwood [00:23:03]:
And he said they thought I was going through something. He said they did all this blood work, checked all this stuff out and said, hey, this is stress related panic attacks. And, well, what it was, it's called an adrenaline dump. So David and I went and looked it up and it's a real thing. You can come down from putting, putting yourself through that and you can get an adrenaline dump that's over the top and drive your heart at a really high level. I mean, like, we see so many shop owners that are in really cruddy situations. We see so many techs that are in really cruddy situations. And those are human beings.
Mike Allen [00:23:36]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:23:36]:
Whether you agree with them or not, anything that helps them get out of the situation they're in. Because I was there one time, right? I mean, like, when I walked through that front door, I still tell people because, like, you know, Bob walks over to me, he says, you must be Lucas Underwood. And I just thought that was the coolest thing ever. I didn't realize there were only 16 people there. He knew.
Mike Allen [00:23:59]:
The other ones have already checked in.
Lucas Underwood [00:24:03]:
Yeah, exactly. But like, that moment and that. And even though, like, he and I don't always see eye to eye, like, he changed my life with what he said to me.
Tonnika Haynes [00:24:12]:
Me.
Mike Allen [00:24:13]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:24:13]:
And I just think that we have, not just as podcasters, but as human beings, we have immense responsibility. And we joke and we laugh and we cut up, but we have immense responsibility. The words that come out of our mouths because we impact and influence other human beings to do things.
Tonnika Haynes [00:24:26]:
You know, same thing with the coaches. Like, like you were saying, it was more than one way to do anything.
Lucas Underwood [00:24:31]:
Yeah.
Tonnika Haynes [00:24:31]:
What scares me is, okay, you helped save my shop. My marriage is doing better now. When are you get off the coattails? Like, when do you take responsibility? Like, do you go to that coach for everything? He'll help me do this, help me do that. When you become a strong enough person to run your own business, there's a
Mike Allen [00:24:47]:
lot of dependency built in. Right. Because.
Tonnika Haynes [00:24:49]:
So why would a coach allow you to just become dependent on them?
Lucas Underwood [00:24:53]:
Yeah, I have a real problem.
Tonnika Haynes [00:24:55]:
It seems like it would be a time, I think they're graduate from a program.
Lucas Underwood [00:24:58]:
Yeah. Me and you have had talks about that. I have a real problem with that. I Have a really.
Mike Allen [00:25:01]:
There's a lot of coaching organizations out there. I don't think we need to name any by name, but that, to a degree, the business has reached its goals, and maybe the owner doesn't desire further growth. They're like, I don't want to have 20 locations. I don't want to do $100 million. So maybe they want three stores running at Redline very effectively. And they've got that. And they maintain their relationship with that coaching organization because it has become their fraternity. Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:25:34]:
And you know what? If you got the money and the coaching organization is okay with that. Okay. As long as it's not a detriment to the other clients. Right. When you go to meetings and 15 people in the room have known each other for 10 years, and they know each other's businesses intimately, and they're all hitting their goals, and there's no press for growth. And the other five feel like there are kids on the outside looking in and there's no interaction.
Lucas Underwood [00:25:59]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:26:00]:
That sound familiar?
Tonnika Haynes [00:26:00]:
Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:26:01]:
Yeah. I mean, and. And
Tonnika Haynes [00:26:05]:
what would you do on that? Like, I'm. I'm not a weak person. I don't think that I am, but when I was feeling like I was like, you know what? I'm not paying to be a lot of frame today.
Lucas Underwood [00:26:12]:
Yeah, this is.
Tonnika Haynes [00:26:12]:
This is crazy. And then you get in the company that lets that one person that refuses to do the work hold anybody else behind.
Lucas Underwood [00:26:20]:
There's. There's two, maybe three organizations in automotive coaching that actually have a curriculum and a system built out that provides a pathway.
Mike Allen [00:26:34]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:26:34]:
There's very, very few coaching companies that they. Somebody posted in one of the groups the other day and said, like, hey, where are all these automotive coaching people coming from? And because I moderate all these groups, like, I see all these people, and it's one right after another, oh, now I'm a coach. Oh, now I'm a coach. Oh, now I'm a coach.
Mike Allen [00:26:51]:
Just so you know, when you post in those groups anonymously, Lucas knows it's you, and then he takes a screenshot and shares with everybody.
Lucas Underwood [00:26:59]:
Yeah, especially Mike. Especially Mike. And so it's. It's interesting to me because I think that one. Many of these people realized how hard running an automotive repair shop is. It's a lot easier to coach people, and they see a potential revenue stream. It's not about improving the industry. It's not about helping people.
Lucas Underwood [00:27:23]:
There are a lot of people who are helping the industry. I'm not saying that, but I also think that in large part Those people are not focused necessarily on developing that system. They're not true educators, they're not true coaches.
Mike Allen [00:27:42]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:27:43]:
One of the things you know about AvTech, right. One of the reasons that I got so hot and heavy over trying to help them is because it wasn't just that. Dave went out and said, I'm gonna start a certification program because I want people to be certified. Dave went to school to learn about certifications, got a PhD in credentialing to understand it. Because he said, there's a problem and I want to fill a need. I want to fix this.
Mike Allen [00:28:06]:
He got a PhD in credentialing?
Lucas Underwood [00:28:08]:
Yeah. It's some crazy title. I couldn't even begin to tell you what it is. But it is all about understanding how to determine somebody's competency. Right. That's all he trained about. And so if we can learn how to do that, I think these automotive coaches who make millions of dollars by charging people to fix their businesses, I believe that they could implement a curriculum and a system that moves the people through that.
Mike Allen [00:28:33]:
Wait, our employees all think that we make millions of dollars at the shop. Right. How many coaches do you think are making millions of dollars?
Lucas Underwood [00:28:41]:
I've seen some penals.
Mike Allen [00:28:43]:
I can think of two that I think are probably in seven figures.
Lucas Underwood [00:28:48]:
I didn't say gross or net.
Mike Allen [00:28:51]:
I can think of two that I think net millions of dollars and that's probably it.
Lucas Underwood [00:28:58]:
I can tell you of four.
Mike Allen [00:29:01]:
Okay, well, I mean, good on them. I don't, I don't fault them. That company.
Tonnika Haynes [00:29:09]:
Yeah, with modules to check for competency and have a diploma.
Mike Allen [00:29:17]:
Holy shit. Guys, it's the podcast network coaching company.
Lucas Underwood [00:29:22]:
Bet. Hey, Jeff Compton is going to be our lead coach.
Mike Allen [00:29:25]:
Handshake deal. No paperwork, no partnership agreement. We'll just all promise that it's going to work out. It's going to work. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:29:35]:
Do you know. Do you know when we started the podcast, I got a lecture one time, I got a lecture that said, you're going to stop giving away the cheese. And I said, what are you talking about? They said, you're giving away all the low hanging fruit and it's making us look bad.
Mike Allen [00:29:47]:
So here's the thing. Outdated SMS just. They don't just slow you down, they cost you money. And I learned it the hard way. Before techmetric, I was wasting time on inefficient processes, manual updates, back and forth calls with customers. Now I handle everything in one place. Dvi, customer communications, payments, real time reporting. It's all in one page.
Mike Allen [00:30:07]:
Since making the Switch. My average repair order has jumped from $293 to $916. And it's not just me. Tekmetric powers almost 10,000 shops nationwide. By the time you're hearing this, it probably will be 10,000 shops, helping them grow and operate smarter. If you're tired of losing time and money to outdated systems, tap the link in the show notes and see what techmetric can do for you. Was it your coach at the time? Okay, that's surprising to me. That's okay.
Mike Allen [00:30:38]:
We all grow. We all grow, right?
Lucas Underwood [00:30:39]:
Yeah. Oh, no, I. I have no hard feelings now or anything like that. It's nothing like that. Nothing like that. Well, I mean, like, this is.
Tonnika Haynes [00:30:50]:
These are the first 10 steps you need to do in your job.
Lucas Underwood [00:30:53]:
If you've done this.
Tonnika Haynes [00:30:54]:
Have you done that? Have you done that?
Lucas Underwood [00:30:55]:
That was what the ASOG mastermind was all about, was like, hey, let's. Let's help the people. Let's solve some basic problems so they can get a coach. And I think after we did that, people started realizing, like, hey, this isn't gonna time out.
Mike Allen [00:31:07]:
We're 35, 40 minutes into this episode. Welcome to Confessions of a Shop Owner with your host, Mike Allen. I've got two guests with you today. I've got the podcast diva in the automotive industry, Ms. Tanika Haynes with the Downshift with Tanika. And then we've got a new startup. We think he might make something out of it. Maybe not, but Lucas Underwood of the A Sock Podcast, I think it was.
Lucas Underwood [00:31:32]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike Allen [00:31:34]:
So, yeah, I like that. I think he's got a lot of talent and passion, so hopefully he'll make something of it one day.
Lucas Underwood [00:31:39]:
One day. Probably not.
Mike Allen [00:31:41]:
My son, I don't know how. He was at his buddy's house and the podcast came up, and his dad was like, oh, he's got a podcast. That's cool. And he texted me like, hey, so and so's dad, you got a new listener, is gonna listen to your podcast. And I was like, oh. And so they dropped my son, his buddy, off at a card show at the convention center or wherever it was. And then they went out to run errands or whatever, and they picked him back up and said, so we listened to one of your dad's episodes. I was like, oh, Jesus.
Mike Allen [00:32:16]:
Oh, Jesus. Which one was it? He said, I don't know which one it was, but he said they never introduced who the guest were. I had no idea who was talking. And he curses a lot. And some. I mean, this is a very Straight laced family. Valid.
Lucas Underwood [00:32:32]:
Valid.
Mike Allen [00:32:33]:
Took their son out of wake out of the Christian school that my kids go to because it wasn't quite straight laced enough. And I dropped MF bombs every episode. Right. And so I don't know if they're allowed to hang out anymore or not, but.
Lucas Underwood [00:32:46]:
Oh, that's rough.
Mike Allen [00:32:47]:
But I got a follower, so.
Lucas Underwood [00:32:50]:
That's right. Mike will. Mike will drop trowel for your subscriptions.
Mike Allen [00:32:56]:
I will split trowel for the real. So I'm sorry that you had to go through that story.
Lucas Underwood [00:33:03]:
It's. That is a pretty, pretty rough one. Pretty rough one.
Mike Allen [00:33:07]:
What are you gonna do?
Lucas Underwood [00:33:08]:
Hey, it's life, man. It happens.
Mike Allen [00:33:10]:
All right, so you, like, you've got the show and you've got the family business and you get the shop, which has been neglected for a little while. 2026, is that the year that you focus on the shop some more? Do you not have the bandwidth?
Lucas Underwood [00:33:25]:
Yeah, 2026 is the year that I implement EOS in both businesses.
Mike Allen [00:33:33]:
Do you have an implementer or a coach that's going to help?
Lucas Underwood [00:33:36]:
Not yet. That's one of the things that I've been talking to the Institute about. We think that we would like to work towards implementing because they do have people who are certified implementers. And so we're talking about maybe a system that helps shops implement eos in that I desperately need help being able to manage the amount of things that come at me. I'm somebody who, like, a lot of shit comes at me. I lock up and so I don't
Mike Allen [00:34:03]:
know what to do.
Lucas Underwood [00:34:04]:
I just. I've got so much that I need to do. I don't know which thing to do. Yes, exactly. That's what it looks like.
Mike Allen [00:34:13]:
When shit gets real. Lucas just changes the subject. He's just like, hey, look at this.
Lucas Underwood [00:34:17]:
Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. Braxton, don't ask about your paychecks anymore.
Mike Allen [00:34:24]:
So you're very much a visionary. You're. And takes one to know one. Right. But you need somebody who's detail oriented and boots on the ground. I see a lot of parallels. You're very much a people pleaser and you care desperately what people think about you.
Lucas Underwood [00:34:44]:
Yeah. And that's a. That's where the. That's where the similarities stop right there.
Mike Allen [00:34:51]:
No, I. It's one of the reasons that I struggle with my business, with managing my business, is because I don't have the hard conversations.
Lucas Underwood [00:34:58]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:34:58]:
Because I want. I want desperately for people to think that I'm an awesome fucking Boss. And so my payroll. I mean, my payroll was way too high.
Lucas Underwood [00:35:06]:
Mine, too.
Mike Allen [00:35:06]:
My accountability level is way too low. Yeah, my.
Lucas Underwood [00:35:11]:
But what's weird is I didn't have a brother that was that much superior to me, and I. I still feel that way. So it couldn't have been that, because
Mike Allen [00:35:18]:
I didn't either, because I'm so much better than him in all the ways that matter.
Lucas Underwood [00:35:23]:
I mean, like, we. None of us believe that.
Tonnika Haynes [00:35:28]:
That's.
Mike Allen [00:35:28]:
I don't know how he's latched onto that. Like, he thinks it's a major insecurity for me just because I told him it was a major insecurity that one time. Every time you see them with Lucas,
Lucas Underwood [00:35:40]:
every time you see him with his brother, it's written all over his face. You could take a magic mark.
Mike Allen [00:35:46]:
Oh, my brother does listen. Okay. So last month, my brother called me, and he was like, hey, both of my cars are just. Just about paid off and trying to figure out if I'm gonna keep them or get rid of them. So one of them, his wife's car, is an X7 with, like, 125,000 miles. And I was like, get rid of it. It's about. It's about to kill you.
Mike Allen [00:36:06]:
Yeah. And he's like, okay. And his truck, he's got a. A Yukon Denali pickup, 2562. There's 1500 with the 6 2. 150,000 miles on it also. Get rid of it. Right? It's time to go.
Mike Allen [00:36:23]:
And he's like, well, I'm thinking about this. I'm thinking about this. I'm thinking about this. And I was like, just fucking. Don't do any of that. Those are all bad choices. Don't bring that shit to me. So what did he do? He went and he replaced the X7 with a used X7M, and he's replacing the GMC with a Hummer.
Lucas Underwood [00:36:43]:
Ev, let me just be real with you. I would, you know, if he was superior to me, I would feel bad about myself, too. With decision making like that.
Mike Allen [00:36:52]:
You no longer think he's superior, do you? Because those are some bad choices, Brent.
Lucas Underwood [00:36:55]:
No.
Mike Allen [00:36:56]:
Bad choices.
Lucas Underwood [00:36:56]:
No, I'm just saying that. I'm just saying that. I don't know that. I don't know that the superiority changes. It just lowered you down.
Mike Allen [00:37:06]:
He's still. He's still superior, and. But he's much lower now and still superior. So it just lowered us both. Yeah, copy.
Lucas Underwood [00:37:15]:
Great. It's great.
Mike Allen [00:37:18]:
No, but it was like a series of conversations over several weeks where he acquired the X7M. And then he was like, yeah, I'm really just kind of finding all the reasons to talk myself into making a poor choice. I was like, you're at the fucking Hummer. Yeah, I am. Dude.
Lucas Underwood [00:37:34]:
Dude, that is awful. Yeah, I mean, Mike's Hummers are EVs, but that's a little bit different, you know? Well, I mean, not EVs, they're just battery.
Mike Allen [00:37:46]:
Oh, I think that was a blowjob joke. Was that a blowjob joke? You want me to catch your blue ball? Is that what that was?
Tonnika Haynes [00:37:53]:
Yes, I'm in here.
Lucas Underwood [00:37:58]:
We're terrible people.
Mike Allen [00:38:02]:
So you don't ever do this kind of stuff on your show? This is just.
Lucas Underwood [00:38:05]:
No, we.
Mike Allen [00:38:06]:
I don't know if you do or not. I don't actually listen to it. Yeah, we do. Do you listen to your own show? Do you listen to your episodes?
Lucas Underwood [00:38:13]:
A little bit here and there. Not much. I'll watch reels and stuff like that. It depends on what it is. Like there. Believe it or not, there are a couple people that we've talked to that said really impactful, really intelligent things I go back and listen to, and I don't necessarily listen to myself, but I'll go back and listen to, like, some of the advice they gave and stuff like that and try and implement it in the shop or implement it in the family business.
Mike Allen [00:38:37]:
I consume significantly less podcast and social media in general because you know how
Lucas Underwood [00:38:45]:
the sausage is made.
Mike Allen [00:38:46]:
Yeah, I think there's some truth to that.
Lucas Underwood [00:38:48]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:38:49]:
So, but, you know, Braxton and Brian and I are texting at like 5:30 most mornings because he gets up early. And Braxton just responds when he wakes up at 10 or whenever time he gets up.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:02]:
Yeah, but it's usually 11:30.
Mike Allen [00:39:07]:
He'll be like. He'll be like, hey, such and such reels getting hot. You need to go respond some comments. I'm like, nah, bruh.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:13]:
Do you know how I know when something's wrong with one of our episodes? Is when anyone, your viewers tell you. No. Any one of the episodes, your episodes, my episodes, any of the shows. The only way I know is when you, Jeff, messages me and says, hey.
Mike Allen [00:39:27]:
Jeff actually watches them all and listens to it all with intent because he is striving intentionally to get better every day. And I just want to tell dick jokes and hang out with my friends, which is why I don't get better.
Tonnika Haynes [00:39:41]:
Working on getting sponsors. The question that I'm getting, are you under the umbrella? It's like, I'm not under Their umbrella. That I know, but.
Mike Allen [00:39:50]:
What umbrella? I ain't under no umbrella. Ella, Ella, Ella, Ella, Ella.
Lucas Underwood [00:39:56]:
Oh, that got. That got hot quick. Well, it's because we do have a lot of stuff under the umbrella that most people don't even know is under there.
Mike Allen [00:40:04]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:40:04]:
There's a lot of shows, and there's more shows coming that y' all don't know about yet.
Mike Allen [00:40:08]:
I've been asked to be a guest on one of them.
Lucas Underwood [00:40:10]:
Yeah. And.
Mike Allen [00:40:11]:
And then the lady who's hosting it was like, even.
Lucas Underwood [00:40:15]:
Even better than that is like, we've started working with this group of people, and there's lots of things getting ready to change, but we've got some discussions to have about some big stuff, right? Big stuff that we wouldn't have even thought would even be potential. But there is also. We brought in some people who have set up a complete system, and the person that we hired has ran really large podcasts in the past. They started as a virtual assistant for a podcaster that's been very, very well known. They learned the system, and then they came out and they started developing these systems on their own. And so we've hired them, and they're developing a complete production system. I showed you what that looks like. Everything's color coded.
Lucas Underwood [00:40:57]:
It's automated. There's a process for approvals. There's time frames. There's everything. And so they just handle it. It just goes through this system. And so there's a trello board set up, and you just. If it comes to me, it says, hey, this is something Lucas approves.
Lucas Underwood [00:41:09]:
This is something David approved. Approves. I click yes. I click no. I'd like to change this. I'd like to change that. There's standard operating procedures for everything we're doing now. And so it's.
Lucas Underwood [00:41:21]:
Well, but here's the thing is, like, I think David and I wanted this to be fun, and we wanted to have a good time with this. We didn't want it to be a job, but we recognize now that if we didn't want it to become a job, that we were not going about that the right way. It was becoming stressful trying to keep up with everything. The way to keep it from becoming a job and still have fun with it is put people in place that can do the job part because it's still a job.
Mike Allen [00:41:44]:
Let's put. Let's put you on the therapy couch. Are you ready? I am concerned for you because you're a people pleaser, and you also, like me, are uncomfortable having the uncomfortable conversation. So let's just do it on tape. Since you tried to bait me into one and I skipped it, I'm gonna just, like, bull trying to shop into yours.
Lucas Underwood [00:42:04]:
I love it.
Mike Allen [00:42:04]:
I'm worried that your show is great. Growing so well, and your influence is growing so well, you don't understand and appreciate the influence and impact you have in our industry. And everything you've got is on a handshake and a wing and a prayer, and it's just like, hey, let's just do it.
Tonnika Haynes [00:42:22]:
Great.
Mike Allen [00:42:22]:
Okay, cool.
Lucas Underwood [00:42:23]:
Yeah, I think about that sometimes you
Mike Allen [00:42:25]:
need a business agreement, bro.
Lucas Underwood [00:42:27]:
Yeah, I think about that. But again, I'm not doing this for any type of financial income, anything. And. And I have decided that I am okay if it all blows up tomorrow. I'm okay with it.
Mike Allen [00:42:39]:
Yeah, but I mean, like. Like, see the CTI Group. The CTI group on Facebook. It's worth a lot of money, bro. It's worth a lot of money. And you put a. You put an enormous amount of work into that and energy and your. Your soul in there.
Mike Allen [00:42:55]:
Right. And responding to people and helping people. So you don't want that to just blow up. But also.
Lucas Underwood [00:43:00]:
I don't, but I. I am working really hard to get okay with no matter what happens, being okay. And so if it all falls apart tomorrow, I'm gonna be all right. Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:43:25]:
Be all righter.
Lucas Underwood [00:43:27]:
Yeah. Well, no, I'm. I'm. I'm making some moves on that. I'm going in that direction. That was what a conversation today was about. No, no, I'll tell you about it, but no, we're. We're talking about making some of those moves and.
Lucas Underwood [00:43:40]:
And doing some of those things.
Mike Allen [00:43:41]:
The thing, like, what happens. What happens if you, like. I mean, this is a question for all of us, right? And this comes down to succession planning. What happens if you had a heart. Heart attack tomorrow? How many families are.
Lucas Underwood [00:43:55]:
So far, they've been fairly minor, so it's, like, not that big of a deal.
Mike Allen [00:44:00]:
Yeah. Like, I don't have a complete succession plan system in place for my business. Like, payroll would happen, the bills would keep getting paid, but is there a roadmap to the business being sold for maximum value so that Amanda can get that money and go do it?
Lucas Underwood [00:44:20]:
Just had that conversation with Alex just the other day. We don't have that.
Mike Allen [00:44:23]:
But, you know, there's that, and then there's, like, for you, there's the family business also, and then there's. I mean, changing the industry podcast is not changing the energy. It's not the podcast without you, but the Facebook group still has huge value. And so how do you ensure that all these things that you have built that have great value, that other people depend on, don't suffer and die if you're suddenly taken out of the equation?
Lucas Underwood [00:44:51]:
I have. I have sacrificed tremendous amount of money on life insurance so they will be okay if something happens to me. And I've tried to put things in place that'll make it okay. I cannot make the family business okay. Okay. There is no making business that okay. No matter what I do, I can't. I can't make it okay.
Lucas Underwood [00:45:13]:
That's taught me some valuable lessons, right? Like, I can't fix that. I can't clean it up. I will, and I'm going to, but it's going to take me a long time. If something happens to me tomorrow, I can't.
Mike Allen [00:45:24]:
Right.
Lucas Underwood [00:45:25]:
Like, it's gone. There's no. There's no saving. I couldn't buy enough life insurance to save it if I wanted to.
Mike Allen [00:45:31]:
Well, at that point, it's just the asset, right? It's the mountain.
Lucas Underwood [00:45:35]:
It's owned by the federal government at that point. Copy. So. Well, yeah.
Mike Allen [00:45:45]:
Yeah. Better go sling some parts.
Lucas Underwood [00:45:48]:
Yeah, well, that's my thing is I'm learning, like, hey, there's things I can't control, right? And big challenges come my way, and I'm looking at life saying, No matter how hard the next step is, it's the pathway up, right? Like, it's preparing me for the next challenge. It's preparing me for the next hard thing. My dad's getting older very quickly. Like, we can see it. My brother came to me and said, I feel like every day I see him, he's more wobbly, he's less capable. He's right. I mean, if that happens, dude, I've got 124 individual accounts. I got to figure out how to get out access to.
Lucas Underwood [00:46:26]:
I don't even know.
Mike Allen [00:46:27]:
So, I mean, you need to figure the answer to those questions out right now. Not.
Lucas Underwood [00:46:32]:
They're not even. They're not even in. Some of them aren't even in his name. He doesn't have access. We don't even know what some of them are. Right. And so it. It's.
Lucas Underwood [00:46:41]:
We've. We've crossed some thresholds that make that very difficult to gain that access and to navigate through that and to make enough time to make that happen. And it's not just that. I mean, there's lots of complexity with all of this. I've got another brother who's involved and I want to make sure that the same thing that happened to us doesn't happen to him because of my choices. And so I have a responsibility to try and do my very best with it.
Mike Allen [00:47:03]:
Is there any chance that all the turmoil around the business could suck Allen in or is it pretty clear free. It's separate. The real estate's totally separate and everything else.
Lucas Underwood [00:47:13]:
I've got a note on that property. It is still in dad's name, but it's own a different organization. So it's free, it's fine and I'm the one who pays the note on that. So nothing could happen that we believe. There was a. There was a conversation that happened three years ago. It's longer than that now. Four or five years ago there was a conversation that happened that set all this in motion.
Lucas Underwood [00:47:36]:
Okay. Things had been happening for a long time that I didn't understand. My. The person in question, I've got to be careful what I say.
Mike Allen [00:47:46]:
Person in question, don't discuss anything that you don't want to discuss.
Lucas Underwood [00:47:51]:
The person in question would call and say things and like you, they would seem like they were trying to get you riled up or say, hey, there's this concern. It was like they were trying to get you on their side, right? And sometimes when you talk to them, they would get frustrated about something. They would say, I just wish mom and dad would just go ahead and die so like I could just, you know, go on with my life. And I just always took that and it happened to my other brother too. And I always just took that as this is just, this is just frustration talking. And shortly after that there was a conversation, mom called, really upset and she said such and such said like another family member said those exact words to them because my dad had asked for something to be cleaned up. And so I called and I said, hey, look, this is really none of my business. I'm just saying like I think it's
Mike Allen [00:48:45]:
your mom and dad, it's absolutely your business at that point. Fuck whoever said that.
Lucas Underwood [00:48:48]:
Well, I'm just saying like I just feel like I understand whose mouth that came out of to. For it to get to the next person for it to come out. And I understand that because I say something when I'm 18 and 19 years old, that doesn't necessarily mean how I feel, right? I can be hot headed, I can be a dumbass, I can say things I don't mean, but that doesn't mean I don't regret them later, right? And I'm like, hey, this is going to have a tremendous negative impact later on. Like you, when they think back about what happened, that's going to hurt when mom and dad aren't here anymore. And in that conversation, something came up about where I built the shop. And that conversation included, well, I'm paying for all that. And I said, no, you're not. I've got a deed, or not a deed, but I've got it financed.
Lucas Underwood [00:49:34]:
It's owned by this. It was owned by mom and dad, and then they own that. And so it's a completely separate piece of property. And directly after that, every decision seemed to be about destroying the business. But they didn't understand that I held the note on the property. So if the other business stopped paying all the bill bills, the bill would still get paid. And then they went batshit crazy over it. And I think they intentionally tried to sink the business because they thought up until that point, they realized they'd made a major gaff.
Lucas Underwood [00:50:06]:
Right. Because they thought up until that point, well, if I sink the business to the point it all gets foreclosed on, I can buy it all back, not realizing that I own the other piece of property, that I was paying the bill on it. So even if they didn't pay the bills, that wouldn't get foreclosed on. And so that's the only logic I can think of that makes any of this make sense. And I'm telling you, this has taught me one thing. It's that even if your whole world blows up in front of you, even if what you believe to be true, even if what you thought was going to be the rest of your life and how things were going to play out doesn't work out, you're going to be all right.
Mike Allen [00:50:43]:
So, like, if there's somebody who's listening to this or watching this, who's got a family business. We've been talking a lot about partnerships as of late. Right. Because partnership is hard, but family business is really hard, too. You know, my. I think I'm very fortunate that my brother went the path that he did because he went into the military, got
Lucas Underwood [00:51:05]:
way more successful than you. Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:51:07]:
Yeah. I think it would have been really hard for the two of us to be business partners together. And there would have been power dynamic struggles and there would have been butting of heads and that kind of thing. So. And we got to go shortly. They're knocking on the door outside. But what advice would you give?
Lucas Underwood [00:51:28]:
Or you.
Mike Allen [00:51:29]:
Because you're in a family business, too. Yeah.
Lucas Underwood [00:51:33]:
Step number one as parents set very clear Guidelines. Don't just put it in a will, don't just put it in a trust. Say, here's exactly what's going to happen from a very young age, from the moment that you have an idea of what you're going to do, put it on paper and talk to your kids about it. Make sure it's very clear all the way through.
Mike Allen [00:51:51]:
That's what my parents did. I'm very thankful.
Lucas Underwood [00:51:53]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Mike Allen [00:51:54]:
And it was updated every year.
Lucas Underwood [00:51:56]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:51:57]:
Here's the folder and the safe. Here's the plan. Here's what my desire is here, how it executes.
Tonnika Haynes [00:52:02]:
I'm sure there's something in his head and he's so. He talks about it, but if something happened to him, I wouldn't even know where to start. Well, pick up the phone.
Lucas Underwood [00:52:10]:
Yeah. So the ne. The next thing that has to happen is there has to be a buyout protocol. There has to be something that says, here's how we're going to determine the value of the business. There is no. This is not exception.
Mike Allen [00:52:22]:
This is the method to establish share price.
Lucas Underwood [00:52:24]:
Exactly.
Mike Allen [00:52:24]:
Period.
Lucas Underwood [00:52:25]:
This is how it works. Because you love someone, because you care about someone does not mean that they are mentally well, does not mean that they are mature, does not mean that they're going to make right decisions. So loving someone, thinking that they will always have your best interest in mind does not guarantee they're going to have your best interest in mind. You have to trust but verify every single thing that you talk about with that person. You either do it by text or by email. You document every single thing you say and you have other people who are signers on accounts. But every one of your checks needs two signature lines on it and it needs to be required that both signature lines are signed before a check goes out every single time.
Mike Allen [00:53:13]:
How to avoid family business clusterfox101 by Lucas Underwood. We could continue this conversation for another hour.
Lucas Underwood [00:53:19]:
I feel like I. I've got probably 250 to 300 lessons I've learned out of this. Wow.
Mike Allen [00:53:25]:
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate.
Lucas Underwood [00:53:27]:
Absolutely.
Mike Allen [00:53:28]:
Thank you for watching us be children. I appreciate it.
Lucas Underwood [00:53:31]:
Hey, listen, listen. This is where you plug your show. Braxton cuts it out, puts it at the very beginning.
Tonnika Haynes [00:53:36]:
Is that what. It's what we're going to do?
Mike Allen [00:53:38]:
I feel like that's what we're going to do.
Tonnika Haynes [00:53:40]:
I'm not a plugger of the show.
Mike Allen [00:53:42]:
Hey, go online and watch your. It's awesome. Yeah. Not. It's not like Onlyfans where you can pay to watch her Shit.
Lucas Underwood [00:53:49]:
No, no, no, no, no. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. Jeff Compton, his tallest world would pay to watch.
Mike Allen [00:53:54]:
Tanika, of course.
Lucas Underwood [00:53:56]:
Are you kidding me? Such a crush on her.
Tonnika Haynes [00:54:01]:
I love him so much.
Lucas Underwood [00:54:02]:
You guys are so sick.
Tonnika Haynes [00:54:03]:
Don't put that man out.
Lucas Underwood [00:54:04]:
Listen, listen, I'm just telling you. I'm just telling you right now. I'm just telling you right now. Jeff is taught the entire automotive traffic technician world something very important, okay? It is huge. It's a big deal. He says that you can get free trials to each one of those things, and then you just unsubscribe before they charge your card. He's got it figured out. He said you can also, like, do some sort of chargeback thing or something.
Lucas Underwood [00:54:25]:
And I'm like, no, that's dirty business, man. Yeah, yeah, that was my gallon.
Mike Allen [00:54:34]:
The only one of those sites that I have a subscription to is feetfinder.com, and that's just so I can check on the new content from my big buddy Brian.
Lucas Underwood [00:54:41]:
Oh, man.
Mike Allen [00:54:42]:
Hey, I should show you a size 15E.
Lucas Underwood [00:54:45]:
I showed him a picture of my toe, and he thought that that was disgusting.
Mike Allen [00:54:49]:
Dude, I've got so much fungus on my left big toenail right now, man. Hey, I'm have to have the toenail removed.
Lucas Underwood [00:54:53]:
Listen, I got these little, like, black spots underneath my toenail because I guess I dropped something on at some point and then I kicked something the other day. Well, it did this weird thing. It turned sideways underneath the cuticle, and so it got stuck underneath the cuticle, and now it's split and it's, like, turned up and all these little weird curly things. It's odd.
Tonnika Haynes [00:55:09]:
I do not talk about any of these things on my podcast yet.
Mike Allen [00:55:12]:
That's why you should watch.
Tonnika Haynes [00:55:14]:
I hope it never happens, but yeah, watch.
Lucas Underwood [00:55:18]:
Tanika, can I be on your show? I love you.
Tonnika Haynes [00:55:20]:
I can't even get you to sign up and answer my phone call. Let me try me, girl.
Lucas Underwood [00:55:23]:
I don't even want to hear every single time you have ever called me. I've answered or called right back, and that's a wrap.
Tonnika Haynes [00:55:29]:
Easy for me.
Mike Allen [00:55:34]:
Thanks for listening to Confessions of a Shop Owner, where we lay it all out. The good, the bad, and sometimes the super messed up. I'm your host, Mike Allen, here to remind you that even the pros screw it up sometimes. So why not laugh a little bit, learn a little bit, and maybe have another drink? You got a confession of your own or a topic you'd like me to cover? Or do you just want to let me know what an idiot I am. Email Mike Confessions of a shop owner.com or call and leave a message. The number 704-confess. That's 704-266-3377. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to, like, subscribe or follow.
Mike Allen [00:56:08]:
Join us on this crazy journey that is shop ownership. I'll see you on the next episode.
Lucas Underwood [00:56:30]:
You know, I said just, You know, I said, Jess.