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We need a new definition of success—one that harmonizes meaning and money.
Imagine diving into your workday with renewed energy, leaving behind the exhaustion or dread of a monotonous grind.
Traditional beliefs about success and the root cause of burnout are the same:
Prove yourself.
Work harder.
Take care of the business, and it will take care of you.
We’re recycling the mindset and practices that keep us stuck. Our souls need a jumpstart into The Age of Humanity.
Tune in for a new way of working that honors our nervous system and the bottom line, using knowledge of the brain, the Bible, and business. We’ll discuss timeless truths that amplify growth, ignite change, and reshape the world of work. No corporate speak or business BS. Let’s get to the heart of a rewarding career and profitable growth.
We speak human about business.
What’s in it for You?
Value, Relevance, and Impact (VRI): No, it's not a new tech gadget—it's your ticket to making your work genuinely matter to you and your company.
Human-Centric Insights: We prioritize people over profits without sacrificing the bottom line. Think less "cog in the machine" and more "humans helping humans."
I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hesson, your thrive guide leading you into the new Age of Humanity. I’ve navigated the highs and lows of business and life, from achieving over $40 million in sales, teaching thousands of people around the world about leadership, trust, execution, and productivity to facing burnout, divorce, raising a couple of great humans (one with ADHD), and navigating the uncertainty of starting a business.
I’m committed to igniting change in the world by jumpstarting business into profitable growth with the timeless truths of our humanity.
Sound crazy? It’s only crazy until it works.
Hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and leave a review to help other listeners discover our show.
Want insight and advice on your real career and business challenges? Connect with me on social media or email me at rebecca@wethrive.live. Your story could spark our next conversation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:08]:
Higher than that. Welcome back to the Business is Human podcast, where we discuss strategies to increase our VRI value, relevance, and impact. We're here to blend meaningful work with profitable success. I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, here to steward what we call the age of humanity, to transform the way we work so we can transform the way that we live. As always, my friendly request. If you like what you hear, hit subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and then leave a review to tell the other humans that they might like it, too. Always looking to help you and connect with others. Let's get into it, shall we? On October 17 of 2019, when this podcast was called the Badass Women's Council, I published an episode with Cari Hahn.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:01:02]:
An episode that, back in the day, was recorded in my house, in my walking closet, because that's where sound is best, because all your clothes absorb all of the background. Well, technology has certainly come a long way, and so I no longer record in the closet. And so today's episode is, again, Cari Hahn with an update on how far her business has come. And she's joined with her husband, Matt, because he has now joined her business, and it has grown into a place that she never dreamed possible. All she had was faith. And now, over time, Matt has joined the business, and it is just a beautiful representation of what's possible when you follow that call on your heart and just go. You just go with the faith that it has to work out. It needs to work out, and you can't not do it.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:09]:
And so I cannot wait for you to hear how Cari's business has evolved. Oh, Ps. Technology has evolved. But I. When you do work like this on a podcast, sometimes it's not your friend. And so we had some technology challenges. We'll just say, but I think we've done a good job of bringing you a great episode in spite of the warfare that we experienced. All right, here we go.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:38]:
So when I started writing this book, which was largely about how do we run business and lead in a kind of post 2020 reality, that everybody's expectations about work has shifted globally. And as I dug into it, fundamentally, where it starts being a problem is our definition of success. Number one, it's all going. That should be a unique something that you're seeking individually. But our society has grown up believing that acquiring and achieving, mostly measured in financial ways, is the way that you define success. And that has driven so much of our economy and our society and our parenting and everything else, which leaves this separation a lot of times of what we truly care about because we're striving to go make money and it just gets all messed up. And the new definition of success that people are starting to arrive at post 2020, and I'm describing it as freedom. People want the freedom to live their life knowing their value, making it matter in ways that have an impact, so much so that some people are just saying, screw it, I'm out.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:03:59]:
I'm going to just go braid here on the beach. But there's a beautiful way that I believe God wanted commerce to be, which is a hebrew word for work, is the same as the hebrew word for worship. And so I believe that he created us to be in community through commerce. But there's all kinds of things that have gotten in the way evil that has made that wrong. There's a whole economic engine built on fear. So the transformation that needs to take place in order for us to get from this old definition of success to the new definition of success I'm proposing is healing, humility and helping. So healing, we each have to understand our own healing journey and that we bring everything to work. Childhood trauma, all the shit, like it all comes to work with us.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:52]:
And so understanding self has to happen. And then humility is the only way to lead, which in this new economy that I'm talking about, which is that we don't have an.org chart, we have more of a triangle. So as a leader, you're not better than, you're just different than, and you have a different role, but everybody has a different role unique down our fingerprints. And that helping that business is supposed to be about being relevant and making an impact, not just growth for the sake of economic engine, but all of that leads to more profitable growth. So your story touches on healing humility, helping in a really beautiful way that youre a business came out of great Charles tribulations, pain. It was a relevant need that you had to leave that company and how this was part of that healing journey. Matt and Cari, welcome to the show.
Cari Hahn [00:05:51]:
Thank you for having us.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:05:53]:
I think I should say welcome back to the show, Cari, because you are a repeat.
Cari Hahn [00:05:59]:
I am? Yes.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:06:00]:
Do you remember what year that was? I was new to podcasting. You were new to running this business. And we were both just basically living off of a passion to make a difference throughout all of the uncertainty. Is that a fair assessment?
Cari Hahn [00:06:15]:
Yes. Yes. I would say that's very fair, yes.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:06:19]:
And so tell us a little bit about your business. Clutch and Kindle. Give the audience some context about what this business is today.
Cari Hahn [00:06:28]:
So just, I started looking at everything that was in all the products we were using. And I was buying super expensive candles from Saks Fifth Avenue because I believed when I was in cancer treatment, I was like, I'm just going to treat myself. And I believe that they were clean. And then what I found out is that didn't necessarily equate to clean ingredients. So my degree had been in art therapy, and it really, my business started as a hobby. And, you know, it's obviously, it's grown. Matt joined me when he is not at the firehouse on his off days. About three years ago, I think.
Cari Hahn [00:07:09]:
So we have the clean fragrance, but then we've also incorporated with Matt's story, all of the repurposed firehouse hats. And then, of course, we give back to breast cancer survivors, as well as we give back to first responders. Mental health is a big part of both of our journeys and our stories. So that's something that's really important to us. I think we've given back a total of 24,000. I want.
Matt Hahn [00:07:36]:
It's give or take 24.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:07:37]:
That should give back.
Cari Hahn [00:07:39]:
Yeah, yeah.
Matt Hahn [00:07:40]:
For a small business, I mean, that's a lot of money. This is a lot about the people that are kind enough to buy yourself, that support us. And that's my favorite part, is giving money back. I know that sounds silly. It probably doesn't seem that I love that part.
Cari Hahn [00:07:54]:
It is showing up in our community, it's helping the community. It's being advocates for me, being advocates for breast cancer survivors, for Matt. It's being advocates for people who sobriety needs to be a way of life. So we both have this purpose, and the business aligns and allows us to continue to live a life of purpose.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:17]:
Your story is exactly why I invited you on the show. Because the name of this podcast is Business is Human. And of course, our business needs to make money. The world is able to function because of commerce. We need money to live. Money is not an evil thing. But using it as the main measure of our success is where we get into a little bit of an issue. And what you have done out of pain, not necessarily like, oh, yay.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:49]:
I started this clean fragrance business because it's just art therapy. It's, I have cancer and I need to find clean fragrances. But I am going to use this as my own art therapy. In your basement, making candles, trying to distract yourself from treatment and all these life changes and so what you've done is you've taken your story as troubling and frustrating as it is with Matt, your battle with alcohol and Cari, or battle with cancer. You've taken those two battles, and you've said, we can actually turn around and do good with our story. And I love that. And I love that it is a husband wife duo that you're doing it together. And I just wanted our listeners to know that career doesn't always come from some beautiful journal.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:44]:
I planned my life, and everything worked out just like I thought I was going to. In fact, I don't know anybody that has that story of. I made a plan. It executed perfectly, and life is good. Yours came out of pain and struggle, but you used it for your good.
Cari Hahn [00:10:03]:
I think that Matt and I also, we have to show up as our authentic selves. I believe and share our story of pain because I believe that's part of why I have survived cancer was to then come and talk about the other side. I believe that that's why Matt survived his battle with alcoholism. It's again to come back and say, we made it out of the pit, and we want to help other people who are in the pit. Because I think a lot more people are in the pit right now. Then we'll let on. I truly believe that we are right now in the midst of just a horrible mental health. I think that so many people are struggling, and in some ways, it's.
Cari Hahn [00:10:41]:
I feel guilty that Matt and I are now at a point that we are thriving in life. But we got to that point because we sat in the pain and we worked through the pain, and we worked together, and we healed. And there were so many hard things that we had to do to get to this place and going, and no one wants to go into pain. No one wants to relive it. But we've done the work, and we want that happiness that we have found and that joy. And even me making amends with what happened to get me to start a business, you know, all the stuff with my employer. I was so angry and so mad for so long. And I now truly wake up and go.
Cari Hahn [00:11:24]:
I am so grateful for the closed doors that led me here to living my life of purpose.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:30]:
The healing part of this journey for both of you is so important for people to hear. Because most of what's happening now is people are just trying to numb out the pain rather than heal it. And Matt, if I remember correctly, that was part of your story, was the way that you were dealing with Cari's cancer diagnosis was numbing it out with alcohol.
Matt Hahn [00:11:54]:
Boy, isn't Cari. She's got a real gym here, doesn't she?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:59]:
Actually, she does, because I know the full story, and that's what I want to show.
Matt Hahn [00:12:03]:
There were moments, you know, at the end of the day, with myself and alcoholism. I'm a little over six years sober. I'm in a program that I absolutely love that saved my life. Christ is a huge part of who I am. He's always been a part of my story, a big part. But that is my biggest focus in life, is that in my sobriety so that I can be my best version of myself for God and for my wife and for my children and for my people on this planet. And, yes, I absolutely am an alcoholic. And I already got post traumatic stress as a city firefighter.
Matt Hahn [00:12:35]:
Alcohol was a great way for me to hide. It was a great way for me to cope and numb. And unfortunately, well, I almost want to say, fortunately, I'm actually very proud to be an alcoholic in respect that I get to help others. I'm proud of my journey because it's been a very hard one, and it gives me an opportunity to give my pain a purpose and to help other people. And so, yeah, when Cari was going through cancer, I was right in the middle of my alcoholism. And I was really good at hiding it. I was masterful at hiding it. Sadly, most alcoholics are.
Matt Hahn [00:13:04]:
And I gaslit my wife. I mean, she would sit there in bed with me and be like, I smell vodka on you. And I'm like, you're crazy. I'd been out in the garage, like, two minutes before. So, yeah, it's a big part of my story, and I recover very loudly. That's not for everybody, but for me. I believe God wants me to recover very loudly. And I believe that one of the reasons that God keeps me on this planet is to help other people in any way I can.
Matt Hahn [00:13:29]:
And most of the time, it seems like people reach out to me, and I get people that reach out to me very regularly. And it's not really a tribute to me. It's a tribute to the program. It's a tribute to, like, gosh, there is hope out there for anyone. I just. I went through the program, and I followed God, and I had a lot of help with a lot of people, and I took it very, very seriously. So being loud about recovery or anything else that you, maybe your relationship with Christ or ethical business or whatever, it opens up dialogue for other people that might be struggling, but they're not comfortable to really talk about it with other people. So I've had people reach out primarily with alcohol addiction, but also drug addiction, pornography addiction, gambling addiction, food addiction.
Matt Hahn [00:14:09]:
And that's my way of being able to help others. So, yeah, that's kind of part of my story there.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:15]:
And the combination of your two stories, it has to be God, because you couldn't make this up, right? I mean, you could not make this story up. The book I'm writing right now, I'm talking about the transformation to go from our definition of success largely being about acquiring and achieving and money driven into something that is more freedom, that we can use our gifts and talents, our pain, whatever it is, for purpose, to have an impact. Because I believe that. I don't just believe it. It's science, and it's fact that we will never be satisfied with external validation. We will only be satisfied with intrinsic inspiration, and that healing and humility and seeing our business as helping human to human is the answer. And so what you're describing is the pain care you're going through, which was literally, not only are you in a cancer diagnosis, but the company that you worked for gave you a zero support. I mean, it was.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:15:13]:
It was evil what was happening with this company. And that's the story that you told on a previous episode that I'll link in here, too, that people can go back and hear more about. But so you're in this evil situation with this company treating you the worst ever at a time that you're fighting for your life. You're laying in bed next to the guy who, you know, has an alcohol problem, who you happen to be married to and have to deal with that crap, too. And through all of this, this could have been an equation for we're both just out. We're going to give up on this. We're going to give them life. We're going to give them a marriage.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:15:49]:
And what you did instead is you dove into the pit of the pain, into healing. And your healing, thankfully, came through the Lord, which I'm a huge fan of. I believe that what most people are seeking in life is that sense of I make a difference, and there's no better place to find that sense of identity than in Christ. So I applaud that approach 150,000%. But it's also validated in neuroscience that this drive that you have to make a difference and to help others, Matt, through your program with addiction and carry through your education about breast cancer and giving the way that you do financially, it's almost like this full circle moment. But I know that it has had a whole lot of ups and downs and twists and turns in the process.
Cari Hahn [00:16:41]:
Yeah. You know, I look at Matt and, I mean, there were many times that I, even to this day, there are things that I'm like, please stop. Just pick someone else. Like, just I'm out. Like, I've been a good sport, but someone else, like that person, they look like they're having a good life. Like, go, like, please. You know, we as christians, I think that that's the thing is that as christians, you believe that you are exempt from attacks and hardship and pain. And in all honesty, it actually, life gets a lot harder.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:17:12]:
It's the opposite.
Cari Hahn [00:17:14]:
It's the opposite. And also the way that we should deal with it as christians, if we truly, you know, if we're really living and doing the things we should be doing, it actually makes life a lot harder. But I can't imagine if Matt and I didn't have our faith, we wouldn't still be here. We would not be married. I mean, there are so many things that our story is truly, it is a story of God ultimately healing us and giving us a story of redemption. I mean, that's really what our story is.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:17:49]:
Yeah. And I watch it unfold. I love it so much.
Matt Hahn [00:17:54]:
I just want to add to what Kerry said, which that was really wonderful. One thing that I love about Kerry's story particularly is here's a girl who was just being put through the wringer while she's fighting for her life, quite literally. And she's dealing with this on a physical level, a medical level. She's dealing it mentally. I mean, it's so hard. And there's times I think for all of us that we're going to play the victim card. We're going to feel like victims. We're going to feel like this.
Matt Hahn [00:18:25]:
What did I do? Why me? But the thing I love about Kerry's story is she didn't stay in that hole. She dug herself out. She decided that she wasn't going to be a victim. She was going to be a victor. And for me, that's what I love about that because I know we've all been there where we feel like giving up, like what you had mentioned, Rebecca just. I just give up. Oh, my goodness. And there comes a point where all of a sudden you just have to say, I'm going to precipice.
Matt Hahn [00:18:53]:
I have to make this decision right now as far as am I going to lay in this bed all day long or today I'm going to get a victory. And today my victory is just to get out of bed. And tomorrow I'm going to get out of bed and maybe go for a walk. And I just. That, to me, I love it that my daughter's got to see that. I mean, I love it and I hate it, but I love it that they get to see their mother go through all of this, all of this stuff. I mean, she lived a healthy life. She didn't, she wasn't smoking.
Matt Hahn [00:19:20]:
She wasn't going out and drinking or eating unhealthy. I mean, lived a very healthy life. And we get cancer and it wasn't her fault. And so then she loses her job and gets pushed out. And then our daughters, who are now almost 21, got to see their mother rise out of the ashes like a phoenix to me is just, I just love that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:19:41]:
It gives me chills real quick on this precipitous of this change. I think that's where we're at as a society, as we view work. And so I wanted your story to come to our listeners to remind them that there is power in healing. There is the ability to change things, because the evil that exists in our world today is working a lot through business, through commerce. That's exactly what happened with you, Cari, is it was that they were thrown out basically while you were fighting cancer. And so we have an opportunity, whoever we is, this is a choice, right? Cari, you made a choice to get up and say, I'm going to fight for this. All of us as individuals have a choice to say, the world looks like a dumpster fire right now.
Cari Hahn [00:20:33]:
It does. It does.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:33]:
And I can either throw gas on that fire and be a part of that and just yell and scream and throw bottles and be angry, or I can choose to fight. I can choose to find a life that is different for me and then see how that ends up playing out. And the quickest way I know to do that is, is with the Lord. And it may not feel quick in the moment, but it certainly is the most transformational way to get to that place on the other side. So go ahead. What were you going to say?
Cari Hahn [00:21:06]:
Well, and in the beginning, it honestly, you know, that's where, I mean, I can sit here right now and as a more healed version of myself. But in that season of my life, there were days that I couldn't get out of bed. I simply couldn't get out of bed. I was so beaten down. And there were days that I just would cry all day. There were days. There was a day that I went to Jack's donuts and I got two dozen donut holes. And I proceeded to sit in my bed, and I'd probably eat a dozen of them.
Cari Hahn [00:21:42]:
Matt came in, the room was dark. And he's like, for the love of God, please get up, go take a shower, brush your teeth. Every day, what I would do is when the kids would come home, by three or 04:00 I would get up, my eyes would be red from crying. I would put on a facade everyone knew wasn't well, but that was in the beginning. That was the best I could do. And I remember a day Matt finally coming to me, and he said to me, he's like, Cari, what they did is horrible, but you're either going to be a victim of this your whole life or a victor. He said, but your kids are watching, so I'm going to leave you with that. And I remember, I was like, shut the fuck up.
Cari Hahn [00:22:27]:
Who are you to you? You are.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:22:30]:
You don't know.
Cari Hahn [00:22:30]:
You are gaslighting me. You are manipulating. Like, I know there's something, I don't know what it is because I haven't caught you with the drinking, but I smell vodka. I mean, and I was so angry. I was so angry at him. But he was right. He called me on my shit. Now, did I get up the next day? No.
Cari Hahn [00:22:49]:
But I finally got up. And I thought, my kids, as much as it's painful for me to go on living, the only other option is to not live anymore. That's the easiest option for me. But the wreckage of what that would do to my kids, I couldn't. Every time I wanted to go through with it, I couldn't go through with it because I couldn't pass that pain. I mean, I remember the day when I left my office when they basically kicked me the door, hit me in the ass on my way out. I mean, it was a word. Most horrific meeting of my life.
Cari Hahn [00:23:22]:
It was hurtful. I was confused. And I remember going home and I just laid in the fetal position that day, and I just sobbed like a feral animal. I just. I sobbed. And I don't think I moved from the floor for 7 hours. Just scream like animal sounds coming from me. Because my biggest fear was when Cari doesn't look like Cari, when Cari isn't blonde, when Cari's having, like, my biggest fears came true.
Cari Hahn [00:23:57]:
And you know when your biggest fear? I'm already fighting for my life. I had only missed three weeks of work to this point. During active cancer treatment. I was exhausted. I also went through full menopause from chemotherapy at 41 years old. So overnight, I've lost all of my hormones and feel awful. It was a really, really rough time. I didn't get up and just start fighting right away.
Cari Hahn [00:24:24]:
It was a process. But I finally thought, I've got to give this life my all.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:24:30]:
And I think that's an important point, too, is that freedom is not easy street. No, freedom is freedom of choice. To live the life that you're choosing to live. And you're choosing to live a life that requires a whole lot of hard work. I know you worked harder in this business than you ever did working for somebody else in a corporate.
Cari Hahn [00:25:00]:
I've never worked so hard in my entire life.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:25:03]:
And how is that different than the quote unquote hard work that you used to do in the office or even your firefighting? How is this work different?
Cari Hahn [00:25:13]:
I think it's different because it's the hardest work we've ever done. But it's the work that I love it. Like, I. We love to be a part of the community. I love to be at shows where cancer survivors come up and say, I love your story, like, you know, and that's where if we didn't share the authentic, messy pieces, it would be fake. So the world is fake enough. You get on Instagram, there's enough just fakeness in the world. And that's not helping anyone, Matt and I believe we are here to serve and help others with our story, you know, with our taking the pain that we've had in our life and truly creating a purpose and a life that we love.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:25:56]:
And so you making candles with clean ingredients in your basement, and then, Matt, you coming along and bringing the firehouse side of things, which is my. We talked about this on the other, the first episode, Cari, the just funniness of the candle maker and the firefighter in and of itself is God.
Cari Hahn [00:26:16]:
Just.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:17]:
He's got a sense of humor, right. That's hysterical in and of itself. So you're making candles, you care about clean fragrance. You care about being a business of high character because of what you've gone through. You want to use the money for breast cancer, Matt. You come along and you're using the fire hose material to make these really cool hats and bags. And the products are top quality products. I want to say that, number one, because sometimes, you know, you go out there and you go to the markets and you do the stuff, and I ain't the stuff you really want to be bringing home.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:50]:
Most of us. No, I quality, right. But what the bigger picture is in all of this is it's your stories done in high quality that are opening conversations to help others. Is it about the hat? It's about the story that happens when you go and sell the hat. Is the candle amazing? Yes. I would burn them in my house every single day. Do burn them in my house. And so, yes, high quality products are bringing you money, but it's the impact and the relevance to addiction and cancer.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:27:26]:
Surviving those products are just an asset that you can bring into the commerce to say, I want to have a conversation. I have to believe that there's some intentionality to that. Sure. Right. But is some of it just like this supernatural thing that took over in this business and you just were kind of trying to hang on because we've talked about that. Share a little bit about that part of the story. Yeah.
Cari Hahn [00:27:52]:
I mean, I think that if I'm really honest, every day I get up and I make up things. Right. That's what small business is. You know, you research, but I am self taught in so many of the things that I have done and created. But with that, it also was very important, although I am self taught to learn and make the cleanest, best, you know, all of that and truly learn about what I'm using, what I'm putting, what I'm even using in my home. You know, like I recently learned. I didn't know this. We ended up downsizing.
Cari Hahn [00:28:28]:
Was that two years, a year and a half ago when the twins went to college? And like, I recently learned that a brand new house, we wanted a historic house, very long, complicated. We didn't do that. We bought a brand new house. It actually works well because we have no home repairs, all of that. But one of the things about new homes, they off gas. So they actually. There are toxins in new homes. I didn't know that.
Cari Hahn [00:28:51]:
So I'm learning that, and I'm putting in air purifying systems, all of that. Most of us just don't know what we are opening ourselves up to in our homes, on what we put on our body, the foods that we eat, the alcohol we drink, all of the things. You've really got to be an advocate for yourself and learn.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:12]:
And this helping and serving part of the business and how opportunities, the more you help and serve, the more opportunities are coming to you. And this is the principle of reciprocity. That's God, that's neuroscience, it's energy, it's how the world works that what you put out, more of that will come to you. And so the more that you have put out great products and told great stories. You've gone from donating candles to me in my events and selling a few things here and there at a farmer's market and just trying to get the word out from when we met in 2019 to large orders from stores that you're trying to keep up with the demand. Talk about that evolution.
Cari Hahn [00:30:05]:
So year to date, we have already sold more on our website than we sold the entire last year. A big part of that was we just, I kept going. I kept throwing everything at it. I feel like I constantly have about 20 tabs open in my brain as a small business owner. And if you look at my phone, I do have probably 20 tabs open right now. In March, we entered a contest. It's a blog I have followed for years, Living in Yellow. Someone thought, I don't have a shot.
Cari Hahn [00:30:38]:
I'm not going to put makeup on because I'm not going to win this and I'm not even going to, you know, nothing's going to happen. So I did the video, and then I was selected for our top 20, sent the products, and we happen to be in Arizona. And I got the email. Now, Living in Yellow serves approximately a million women a month through their blog and Instagram. I mean, it's a huge, widely popular blog. She's one of the original bloggers. And, you know, we got the email that we won Living in Yellow. And I'm just, there was so much gratitude because the thing about my business is we truly started this business with nothing.
Cari Hahn [00:31:22]:
I had no money to start this business. We were up to our eyeballs in medical debt. I took $1,000 of handbags and things. I sold it on Poshmark. And that was how I started my business, was I sold $1,000 of stuff. And we have cash flow, the entire business through Matt working over. I think when something that horrible happens in such a hard time of life, I do question my value and my worth, and I still question that. I still, when I look in the mirror, I still see that bald, chunky person.
Cari Hahn [00:32:01]:
I remember when I did my first call with Living in Yellow, and they're like, here, your products are great. You make an amazing fragrance. Like, they are truly great. And I just, after that, I just cried because I thought there's always going to be this part of me that wonders, do I deserve a seat at the table? Because this started so traumatically. And again, I know that that's not truthful. I know that that's Satan telling me, you're not worthy. You don't have value. So for us to now be where we are, I mean, I still, when we get web orders, I mean, I still, there's times like, I can't believe how many people continue to go shop and support and get on the website and talk about us.
Cari Hahn [00:32:46]:
And we're so blessed and we're so lucky and it was so hard to get here and to keep going, especially in those early days when people didn't know us. And I look at where we are now. I mean, it was always a business, but now it's a business. I mean, it's, you know, like, I have a call with my yesterday. I mean, like, there's real calls that happen. And she knows every time I get on the line, like, do we have to talk numbers? But I'm so thankful. We're so thankful for that. And we're so thankful for people who told people about us and continue to tell people about us.
Cari Hahn [00:33:18]:
And I remember in the very beginning, I got into some account and she's like, Cari, your story got you in the door. That's why I met with you. She's like, but you actually have, your products are incredible. And that's the thing. We didn't want to just, this was all about all of it together. You know, we, there is a story, but we also, I'm really proud of what I have created and developed and made. And I truly believe my products. I'm really proud of them.
Cari Hahn [00:33:47]:
You should be very hard to teach myself and to learn. And, you know, for being someone that didn't know anything truly about fragrance eight years ago, I mean, I have immersed myself in the world of learning and learning how to do this and learning how to do it well.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:34:03]:
I just can't get over, like, how you're modeling the transformation that I'm writing about in this book, healing. Humble. Obviously, the comments both of you today are very humble. And how you're helping in your story, it's just so beautifully orchestrated. The two other things I want to highlight about what you said, Cari, is you're, quote unquote, making it up as you go along. And there's this principle in the Bible that says he won't give you the vision without giving you the provision. And the provision is people and resources and ideas. Like, you'll just drop ideas in your head and until you've lived this way and experienced it, it sounds crazy.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:34:45]:
Like, hey, I got this idea. I'm supposed to write this book or start this business or do this thing, and you're just sitting there with this idea going, I don't know how to do that. And real faith, the way that you've chosen to heal and I've chosen to heal is you still get up and you go do the thing, even though you don't know how to do the thing. And every time you take a step, God just will, like, drop something in front of you. Like, that's what I need to say. Whether it's like money for the mortgage or whether it's you randomly, randomly, in air quotes, meet somebody that has the exact skills that you need for something in your business, like living in this place of faith for God's plan in your life is a beautiful business opportunity because he never fails. Like, I fail all the time. But he's always like, I've got you, girl.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:35:37]:
Like, here's what you need. And that's what you're describing is this. Open hands, open heart, open mind to know that the answer's gonna come. And some days you do, you just think you're crazy and you have doubt, but the answers are coming.
Cari Hahn [00:35:53]:
It's called a drop for the fire department. And so you get some money upfront if you notify the state that you plan to retire. And after praying about it, we finally decided in March to go and sign up for the drop. So Matt is retiring in three years, and we would have never in a million years thought that was possible, because the day that we got kneedlers, and I don't have a screenshot of it anymore, but our checking account was negative $2,000. And I moved the last of our savings that day. That was it. That was the last of the savings. And we kept going.
Cari Hahn [00:36:32]:
And I think just because I was stupid, too, I was like, I'm just going to keep going. I don't know what else to do.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:36:37]:
But that's God's best work, is when you are out of ideas, of money or whatever, because when he shows up, he gets the credit. It's this beautiful. Like, I knew he'd be there. That's in hindsight, you know, he'd be there, right.
Cari Hahn [00:36:54]:
So, you know, two and a half years later, to be able to walk in and sign the paperwork and know in retirement we're going to be okay. I mean, it's, it's, that's a God, that's faith. And we signed the paperwork. And again, I mean, there was, there's some fear there, right? Like, did we do the right thing? And it was two weeks later that we got Living in Yellow, which, again, just the business was already on track to do great and amazing things and again, to double from last year. I mean, what an incredible opportunity. And not only that, but those women are helping mentor me. It's an amazing thing for me to have access to that. And once we got Living in Yellow, I absolutely knew without a doubt that we made the right decision for Matt to have signed that paperwork and to be retiring.
Cari Hahn [00:37:41]:
And again, this was something we would have never dreamed that we could do.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:37:44]:
But you had to have the faith to do it before you saw the blessing of it, right?
Cari Hahn [00:37:49]:
Yes.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:37:50]:
That's big. That faith is this substance that you put out there. It's literally like. It's like a thing you actually put out. You have to say, I just have to believe that this is going to work. And you live on faith and belief sometimes for a lot of the things you need in business when you live this way. Yeah.
Cari Hahn [00:38:09]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:38:09]:
So now here you are. How many years before retirement, Matt?
Matt Hahn [00:38:14]:
Two and a half.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:38:15]:
Two and a half. What's your collective vision now? Because that's the other thing about living this way, where you've allowed the Lord to heal you, is the Bible says he'll take you from glory to glory. And that that's growth. That's, in business terms, profitable growth. And so we're not meant to live this. I got to this place and I stayed there, and I just kept making more money. He'll use you in different ways. Where you said earlier, Kerry, pick somebody else.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:38:43]:
I'm a little bit used out of this whole thing. But as you think about the next two and a half years, what's your collective vision, Matt? What are you thinking is going to be the next evolution for you in this business? I know you get a lot of crap from your employer online about your work quality and your work product. Are you ready for. To sign up for. For this new boss that you're about to work for?
Matt Hahn [00:39:05]:
That's the only thing I'm a little nervous about now. She's so much fun to hang out with during the day, for real. So, you know, the guys at the firehouse like to tease me. They're like, well, yeah, the lieutenant's gonna be at home making women's fragrances tomorrow. We'll be at the gym or fishing or whatever. So it's kind of funny. But, you know, what does it look like for us? I just have faith. I think it's 365 times the Bible says, don't fear, do not fear.
Matt Hahn [00:39:29]:
And that's 365 days in a year. So he's trying to tell us something. So I just. I spent a lot of my life. I spent enough of my life living in fear and I just am done with it. I just have faith in God. And whatever route, whatever course he decides, that's what we take. And I know this much, Rebecca.
Matt Hahn [00:39:45]:
I know that he has something very big in store for me. I know that I absolutely, I prayed about it. I know it. And it's going to be, of course, yes. It's going to be with our business. And however God sees fit, we're going to do that. We're going to go whatever avenue that we're supposed to go. But as far as, like, what I'm going to do, I believe that I'm going to be helping, not only going to be helping my wife, but I have to have something that has a very dynamic, fruitful purpose.
Matt Hahn [00:40:11]:
And one of my passions, besides helping others through sobriety, is I love to help christian men become better versions of themselves. I would say John the Baptist level, like hardcore. So I went to a really cool class, and the gentleman who put it on, a wonderful guy, Dave Stouffer, he was asking me about it. He goes, Matt, what did you think about this was a ten week course. I said it was pretty good. And he goes, okay, tell me what you really think. And I go, all right, well, I will. I see a lot of christian men that I think they're kind of just checking the boxes.
Matt Hahn [00:40:42]:
I think that they kind of subscribe to what you described. As far as being successful as money. That may be a small portion of it, I believe. But if that's the only success you have is your money and your things, you failed at life. I want to grab these men, and I've been able to do so through a program called Fight Club. I know that the title's a little funny. You hear Fight Club, everything. You know how to talk about it.
Matt Hahn [00:41:04]:
It's a ten week program for christian men. It's not affiliated with any church besides the christian church. We get about maybe 600 guys to sign up. It's a ten week course and it is incredibly difficult. It is very challenging. And it's all about talking about the tough stuff. It's all about getting vulnerable. It's all about really challenging yourself mentally, spiritually, nutritionally, physically, relationally, with your wife and children.
Matt Hahn [00:41:30]:
It's just, it's really great stuff. And so I've done four rounds of 410 rounds of Fight Club. I started out as just a guy that was one of the people in the group. And I've led as a squad leader anywhere between eight to twelve guys. Usually we start out with about twelve, but guys, it's not for everybody. It's a hard program. And I love it because I don't think they put enough thought into how important it is to truly be a man of God, to be a man in the room that when something's being said with other men that you have the backbone to say, hey, we need to clean that up. Or the guy that's going to do the next right thing.
Matt Hahn [00:42:03]:
Not because anybody's watching or because something may happen otherwise, but because it's the right thing to do and to just really challenge yourself. So I believe that somewhere in that avenue God's going to push me. And I don't know really what that looks like right now. Right now I'm just kind of enjoying the ride. And I love to help Cari. I get to sit here and bounce around, boss around by my wife, but it's fun. I do like, I do like it a lot. I get to go to boutiques and drop stuff off to pretty ladies.
Matt Hahn [00:42:28]:
That's kind of fun. But I know whatever it is that God has in store, I know it's going to be big. I know I'm going to put everything I have into it and I'm absolutely not worried about it. I cannot believe, I mean, I can because I know the miracles of God. But if you were to told me a year ago, Matt, you're going to be retiring and three years, two and a half years, there's no way. There's absolutely no way.
Cari Hahn [00:42:50]:
That was.
Matt Hahn [00:42:50]:
I thought I was going to have to go quite a bit longer. So what a blessing. And whatever he decides, I'm all in.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:42:55]:
Well, I love the name Fight Club because putting yourself into a situation where you are going to be uncomfortable, where you're going to be challenged, you know, forged in the fire, that's where healing happens, is both of you have walked into the pain and said, this will not take me. And so I'm choosing to heal. And healing is not going to be easy or pretty, but it's sure gonna be worth it. And you are just walking testimonies for that. And I hope that our listeners, when they're thinking about their story and, you know, maybe they're sitting in some business somewhere where they're just burned out and exhausted and they've had it, that too, is pain. And so I want your story to inspire people to go into that place of healing and listening to what's meant for them. And if it's not in the job that you're in now, that if you, too, can do it, it's possible to go into that place of pain and discomfort and just look for healing. And, you know, maybe you've never prayed and you had a bad church experience, and so you kind of threw the baby out with the bath, and God is not been on your mind.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:44:17]:
You don't. Doesn't have to be a church experience that you. Maybe you'll consider prayer as asking God, like, what do you have for me? Like, I don't want to get to the place of cancer or addiction. I don't want to go that far down. I know I'm in a bad place now, but I want. I want freedom. I want something different from my life that I hope your story will inspire people from wherever they are to take that step into healing.
Matt Hahn [00:44:43]:
That's so well said, rebecca. I think most people, as humans, I mean, we're prone to want to go from one comfort to the next. I think that's kind of how we're wired. But we have found that where the real growth is, is when you go into the pain and you sit in there. Sometimes you can only do that for a few minutes, and sometimes you have to sit in there for a while. That's where the growth is. That's the goal. You got to go into the pain.
Matt Hahn [00:45:08]:
And I think too many people don't want to do that. And I can understand why. I mean, life can be so overwhelming, and our schedules are just nuts. But if you really ever want to evolve, you have to figure out what happened there. What was the lesson? How can I learn? And like I said, it's okay to crawl into the ball and be a victim. You just can't do it forever. Okay. At some point, you got to make a decision.
Matt Hahn [00:45:30]:
And I think that that's where the growth is. That's where the gold is, is to go into that pain. And it's hard. And sometimes you got to take a break from it, and sometimes you get more gains than other. This is the Bible verse that I love because I feel like it really describes what Cari and I have done to a t. And it's Romans 5:3-5. And it is more than that. We rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope.
Matt Hahn [00:45:56]:
And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who's been given to us. And that's just such a testimony to God, saying, life's not going to be easy, but it's going to mold you into something better. Anything that we've ever gotten, anything we've ever gotten that's had any shelf life of any real value, we had to work hard for. We had to go through some pain.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:46:20]:
In fact, the word work, the hebrew word for work is also the word for worship. God created. We are here to work. And I believe that business, commerce, work can be a place of healing and transformation if we allow it, because it certainly has a lot of opportunity to help one another. If we can focus on that as the primary objective, and nothing, money being the primary objective, money will come as part of the provision and the blessing and prosperity. Jesus wasn't poor. That's a whole other story for another day. But flipping the script to say, how can I help if I can help more people, that's profitable growth, and there's so many tangible benefits to doing that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:47:05]:
And the other thing about what you said, Matt, that I want to underline a bit, is this Fight Club experience. To go into this difficulty and to do the hard thing is not to come out on the other side stronger in ego, because you think, you know, fight, strength, whatever, what you're doing is breaking down the ego, driven to emerge the humbly strong men of God that the world desperately needs. And that is a fight that is so well said.
Matt Hahn [00:47:47]:
You're a Fight Club girl. The whole premise of Fight Club really quick is it's based on Nehemiah 4:14, and it's basically about being the man that God created you to be for your wife, for your brothers, your sisters, your family, your community, and your ego has no place in that. What you need, and a lot of men need, and I needed was to lose my ego, get humble and get to work. And I. There's work in that. And I think, you know, most people, again, they want to walk away from the pain we have. If we have 600 guys sign up, I think really about 60% graduate, because it's just a hard, hard program that it's so worth it. And I always tell my guys, you know, just, just stay with it.
Matt Hahn [00:48:28]:
Just stay with it, because at the end of those 210 weeks, you're going to be such a different person. And to see the transformation of people that have saved, who have been saved through addiction, who have been saved through infidelity, maybe a work addiction on the hinge of divorce. And they just hold themselves accountable and they put everything else on hold and they look at themselves, the relationship with Christ, which should be the most paramount, important thing in your life, and it changes lives. And, I mean, you don't need Fight Club to do that. It's a great program, the structure. I absolutely love Fight Club, but, I mean, I'm always trying to challenge myself, and that's the most important thing because that's where the growth is.
Cari Hahn [00:49:08]:
Well, it's also. I'll say we live in an affluent area, and so with that, it's hard to get people that want to live their comfortable lives and go have a season of some hardship. So most people don't want to spend ten weeks, you know, doing hard things.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:49:27]:
Like, if you're going to go all in with the Lord, you just might as well know that you're going to get fought.
Matt Hahn [00:49:33]:
You're exactly right. I say that to my squad, and every time in Fight Club, we all say it to our squads. And it is, you know, you're signing up for ten weeks of a lot of hard work, and I promise you that the devil's going to attack you. And the reason why is you're changing. You're a worthy target. Now, the people that need to worry are the people that have it comfortable. The people that need to worry are the people that. I'm not being attacked by the devil.
Matt Hahn [00:49:55]:
Because a lot of people, especially in the area we live in, they live in a very comfortable jail cell. It's wonderful. They have money and everything that they need, but they don't have the fulfillment, their relationship with Christ, a true relationship with their wives, other men with Christ, most importantly. And so they kind of yearn. They kind of want it. But the jail cell is, is wide open, but it's too comfortable to leave. And that's what you gotta do. You gotta.
Matt Hahn [00:50:22]:
You gotta face the music. Growth begins. Real growth begins at the end of your comfort zone, and growth and comfort cannot coexist.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:50:32]:
No, I thought when I started my business eight years ago, based on all my experience and blah, blah, blah, but the more I. But I went into this saying, I don't know what this business is going to be, lord, but you do. And so my first year was sitting on my back patio with my bible, my journal, asking him what this business was going to be instead of just building something FranklinCovey like from where I'd been. And, boy, the minute you open the door for that, all the rest comes with it. And it's. I look back now, and I've been on a seven year healing journey. And in that seven years of healing, there have been a ton of attacks. And there's also been the strengthening of me, you know, God will allow attacks to strengthen me.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:51:22]:
And so when you can be thankful for the attack as much as you're thankful for the blessing, that's a new level of being able to do this kind of work, and I'm grateful for it. I would not be prepared for the blessings that I know are coming for me because his promise is true. I would not be prepared for those without the struggles and the challenges that I've been through in the last seven years. It's like my own, like, personal Fight Club experience.
Matt Hahn [00:51:51]:
Yeah, it really is. You know, Rebecca, I can't help but think about people who really have kind of an easy life. Typically, it stems from financial security, and they just have an easy life. And so it's not like they're dealing with. They're not battling a life threatening disease or they're not battling alcoholism. So it's just going one comfort to the next. And it seems like, in my experience, that the people that haven't had adversity, the people that haven't had real, true tests in life, that they're very limited. When a real test comes, maybe especially to a friend, they don't know what to say.
Matt Hahn [00:52:27]:
They're not equipped. They've never had to do anything like that. And so these trials and adversities that we face, as you just so well said, I mean, that's what creates us and helps us evolve into the people that God built us to be.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:52:41]:
Amen.
Matt Hahn [00:52:42]:
It's turned into so much more fragrances right now.
Cari Hahn [00:52:44]:
Perfumes.
Matt Hahn [00:52:45]:
Yeah. We're not even doing candles anymore, which.
Cari Hahn [00:52:48]:
Is weird, which is so crazy that I started as one thing, and that's what I thought it would be. And I have a solution for that. We do like home diffuser oils. But it is interesting because it's, you know, again, I look at how this all kind of came about, and that's not even really a part of the story anymore, you know? And that's that worry.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:53:12]:
That's the. You gotta be ready to evolve. Like, he's got new things for you now, right?
Cari Hahn [00:53:16]:
You think a lot of it, too. I mean, I love the candles, but they were the most time consuming. And for us, I mean, I'm still making everything. I'm still manufacturing everything. You know, I do it. Matt helps me. The girls help me. When the girls aren't here, I have a small team of people that help me with things, and I know that.
Cari Hahn [00:53:33]:
I know we won't always be able to do it how we do. I work from home. I love that I don't want to ever leave my home. I have a dedicated home office. So, you know, there's things like, as we look at the next chapter of life, is it a farmhouse with a, you know, with a pole barn that I work out? I mean, I don't know what that looks like, but, you know, I know we're open to wherever this goes. I mean, we are. We're open to whatever, whatever path God sends us on.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:54:01]:
I mean, but I also would say that now that you received so much affirmation from the Lord and blessings that he's continue to provide, there's no longer like this, like, oh, that was luck or whatever, like you're walking in this with him. This might be a time to write your vision and make it plain and put a little bit more emphasis on that. The church that I follow online just opened a church, a physical church in St. Petersburg. And I was there for their opening on Easter Sunday. And I followed this lady. She has a prophetic ministry. I've followed her before.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:54:38]:
She had a ministry like God gave me her knowing that I was going to need her like 15 years ago. And I'd met her through the blogging community and she's a writer as well. And she said to me as I was leaving the church, it's not an accident that where you're supposed to be. And he says very clearly, write your vision and make it plain. And so I'd love for you to just sit down and you two think about what do you really want? And he's probably going to give you something better or different, but I think he likes it when we believe him and trust him enough to tell him the desires of our heart. Thanks for listening to this episode. I would love it if you would go to Apple Podcast and leave a rating and a review, and then you can go to rebeccafleetwoodhession.com and join the Badass Women's Council. And if you really want to take a deeper, join the movement of a thousand thriving women.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:55:33]:
There's amazing thrive tools there for you today. Love you. Mean it.
Matt Hahn [00:55:38]:
And I'm not coming down.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:55:42]:
Hey y'all, fun fact, if you like the music for the podcast, that is actually my son, Cameron Hession, and I would love it if you would go to Spotify and iTunes and follow him and download some of his other music. My personal favorite is TV Land.