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Dan Hope and Andy Anders of Eleven Warriors bring you inside the Ohio State beat every Wednesday with a podcast covering everything you need to know about the Buckeyes.
Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.
[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays. I'm Dan Hope. He's Andy Anders as we are now in the final week of the college football offseason.
College football season set to begin this Saturday with four games across the country before it all really gets going next week when Ohio State and the vast majority of college football teams will open their college football season. So the preseason is just about over Andy. It's almost time to see these teams actually play football.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, it's all the talk. It's always the most exciting time of year when you're just rolling into football season and and all the talk can finally subside and we can actually get our eyes on, you know, the real games and stop, you know, trying to I guess prognosticate about what the season could be and actually see what it is. Of course now Ohio State isn't going to play many games that matter early on or at least it should, you know, it should win pretty easily these first few weeks, but I'm excited to see what the team looks like.
Maybe we get to see some younger guys get some developmental time in there. Assuming there's some blowouts, you know, these these first few weeks of the season will still be informative even if they're not as informative as as as informative as if they were playing Notre Dame or like a team like that as they have in past years.
[Dan Hope]
Well, at least we're going to have actual football games and performances and production to talk about because you know, as we were kind of planning out the show for today, it's kind of like and it feels like we've covered most of it. I mean, we've had eight months of offseason to, you know, really kind of think about what this team could be and like you said, I don't know what really going to know what this team is until we get to, you know, at least the start of Big Ten play when they play Michigan State and week four, but we're going to at least have, you know, more tangible things to talk about in a couple weeks from now when we're breaking down that first game of the season against Akron, but we do want to continue with our, you know, season preview this week here on Real Pod Wednesdays. And you know, I thought a good topic for us to talk about today.
You wrote about it a little bit, but I think there's some other guys that we can talk about as well is kind of delving into who are Ohio State's most important players for the 2024 season and I distinguish most important from best or even most valuable because we're going to have our Buckeye 20 coming out later in the week. Our first Buckeye 20 of the season going into the year and that will be our ranking as a staff of Ohio State's 20 best players, just the players that we think are the most outstanding players for the Buckeyes, but that doesn't necessarily align entirely with who Ohio State's most important players are because you take a player like Denzel Burke, for example, Denzel Burke, we would both agree is one of Ohio State's best players. He's one of the best cornerbacks in the country, but Ohio State is the who we also think is the best backup cornerback in the country and Jermaine Matthews Jr. And so Ohio State does need Denzel Burke to play really well. They need him to be, you know, that number one cornerback for him, but they're so loaded in the secondary that while you could argue or at least maybe I would argue that Denzel Burke is Ohio State's best player. He might not be the most important player just because there's so much talent in the secondary. I mean, you could say the same thing wherever you're talking about, you know, a Travion Henderson because they also have Quenchon Judkins and Emeka Buka because they also have Brandon Innes and Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith, you know, the best versus more important because of how deep this team is at certain positions.
I think are two very different lists, but Andy, I'll let you kick this off when we talk about who are the most important players for this Ohio State football team, the players who the Buckeyes most need to perform up to expectations and can least afford to lose to injury or any other reason this season, who is the first player that comes to mind?
[Andy Anders]
I feel like Steph Curry step into the free throw line with this one at Will Howard. I mean quarterback, you got to go with the guy that you know, there's questions about Will Howard. I think we've seen, we've gotten some answers watching him in practice, the practices we've observed, talking to Ryan Day, talking to Chip Kelly about his progression, his command of the huddle, his knowledge of the scheme, which has improved, but I still have questions, you know, about some of the things we saw in the spring with the downfield accuracy issues.
He didn't push the ball downfield a ton in practice. We saw some nice throws down the field, don't get me wrong, but he still, I wonder if you can provide that vertical stretch with him. How good is he going to be adjusting to Big Ten defenses?
He's going to have way better weapons than he had at Kansas State, but I think he's also going to play better defenses than he played at Kansas State. So how does he handle that? Through 10 interceptions last year, which isn't, you know, it's not exorbitantly high, but it is still a little bit of a concern in the back of my mind, and more than anything, you know, if he isn't able to ultimately bomb the ball 50 yards down the field with consistency, that's okay.
I think Ohio State can still achieve all the goals at once without him doing that consistently. What's more important is that decision-making side of it, right? And making sure you can distribute the ball with efficiency, with good decision-making to all the weapons that surround you in this offense at running back, at wide receiver, even a little bit of tight end.
So that is the main thing that Will Howard needs to ensure he steps his game, and he's talked about that, you know, he doesn't need to be a hero in this offense. Just get the ball to the playmakers and let them do their thing. But there's that decision-making component of it, but we know what he can do as a runner.
We know he has experience. It's just, you know, trying to cut down on those turnovers a little bit, and if he can add that vertical threat, you know, if he can throw the ball deep down the field with consistency, you have, obviously, the wide receivers who can make plays down there. I think that adds another element that makes Ohio State a little bit harder to defend.
[Dan Hope]
We can certainly say with authority that Will Howard is now one of Ohio State's most important players, because since our last episode of RailPod Wednesdays, we did get the confirmation from Ryan Day that Will Howard will be Ohio State's starting quarterback to begin this season. We heard from Will Howard, Chip Kelly, and Jim, or sorry, we heard from Ryan Day, Chip Kelly, and Jim Knowles last week, and all of them had good things to say about Will Howard.
[Ryan Day]
I think coming off the spring, everything was very new. It was a significant change in terms of scheme and what we ask the quarterback to do. Once he kind of went through the offseason, he changed his body and then came in with a much better knowledge of what was going on.
You could see him playing faster, his feet were moving, the ball was coming out with more pace, and then I think after the first week, you just start to see him take control.
[Chip Kelly]
I think he's really worked extremely hard in the offseason, you know, from the end of spring ball on April 13th to now. He's made great strides, but you know, we gave him a plan over the summer to work on, and he took it and ran with it. So, you know, where he is now is pretty impressive.
[Jim Knowles]
He's making all the throws. I mean, he's, you know, stands in the pocket, got great vision, arm strength, you know, we got great receivers. He's putting the ball in places where only the receiver can catch it.
So, you know, to me, it's not just the arm strength, but he's making the pinpoint passes too.
[Dan Hope]
We still have some questions about Will Howard, particularly that deep accuracy though. Hearing what Jim Knowles had to say was certainly an encouraging thing to hear him say. He's throwing those pinpoint passes.
He can make all the throws because that's been, I think, both of our biggest question dating back to spring is just can he hit those deep balls consistently? Can he make the plays that are available to him? We know Emeka Abuka and Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate are going to have their moments where they get open deep.
Can Will Howard make those throws, make those big plays when they are available to him? Because if he can, this offense could be really hard to stop because if you force defenses to always be aware of that deep ball fret, then they can't stack the box. And then you've got this running fretted quarterback with two elite running backs, one of which you expect to be on the field at pretty much all times.
And this offense is going to be really tough to stop. And so, you know, I think we're both probably kind of in that mind frame of being cautiously optimistic about Will Howard at this point, like based on what we've seen in preseason camp based on what we've heard about him. I think I'm certainly feeling much better about Will Howard than I was coming out of the spring, but there are still those question marks there of just how good can Will Howard be because that could ultimately make a difference in whether or not this team wins the national championship.
[Andy Anders]
Right. I'm with you. My confidence is much higher that Will is going to be something resembling at least what Ohio State needs a quarterback this year.
And I just think what you said is so on point, you know, if you can punish safeties for committing to the run game, this team is going to run the football. And I think that is maybe the part of the offense that you feel the most confidence in with Will Howard's rushing ability that he adds and this elite running back tandem and Chip Kelly's history of maximizing offensive lines, even if Ohio State's offensive line, which is definitely going to be something we talked about, even if Ohio State's offensive line isn't performing up to a certain standard, Chip Kelly has found ways in the past to scheme things and teach things and do things in a way that maximizes even underperforming offensive lines in the running game.
And so if you can then punish safeties who want to cheat down the field and bite on those play actions and try and play the run with the deep ball, to your point, that's another component to add. But I think it segues well into, you know, I think the next group of pivotal players. I could choose any number from the offensive line.
I feel like to me, I think the most pivotal one in terms of what he can be developing from last year into this year is Josh Fryer. And I pick, it's hard for me to kind of sift through it and pick the exact guy that you say, like this is because a lot of the offensive linemen need to step up this year. For me, I think Fryer showed that he can be one of the best run blockers in the Big Ten.
On the ground, really physical, has that punch, athletic for a tackle in the ground game. Just again, in terms of his burst, where he lacked last year was in the past game and not consistently down to down. He was getting whooped every play, but when he got beat, it was bad and it was by speed rush.
He had a particular weakness against really fast defensive ends and edge rushers coming downhill and attacking Kyle McCord. And it showed early in the year against Indiana. It showed late in the year against Missouri.
He slimmed down this offseason and I have no doubt you talk to Josh Fryer, you talk to people about Josh Fryer. He's put in the work to get to where he needs to be physically to handle that sort of thing. It's just does he have the feet and has he put in the reps he needs against, you know, Ohio State has speed rushers that can test him in practice, certainly with JT, Tui, Moe, Lau, Kenyatta, Jackson Jr. Jack Sawyer, not as much a speed guy, but has a good blend of speed and power. I think some of these types of defensive ends to test him in practice. Has he gotten the reps he needs against those guys, shown what he needs to show and is he going to have the lateral quickness and just the feet to keep up with those kinds of speed rushers? So for me, I think that's one of the guys I look at on the offensive line and say it's pivotal that he steps up and builds upon what he put on tape last year.
[Dan Hope]
I would agree a few of it. Josh Fryer is the second most important player on the team, but not behind Will Howard. I have Josh Simmons as the most important player on this team because I do not know who will be the next man up at offensive tackle.
I think in terms of depth on this team, I think offensive tackle is pretty clearly the weakest point on this team in terms of depth and I would be very concerned about what it means if either of those two go down. And that's why we had a lot of talks earlier in the offseason about looking for a transfer portal offensive tackle because I really don't know who is that next man up. I mean, particularly on the left side, you know, could they move Josh Fryer over to left tackle if something happened to Josh Simmons?
Maybe, but then who goes in at right tackle? You know, could it be Zen Mahalsky or George Fitzpatrick stepping in at one side or the other? Maybe, but neither of them has really ever played a snap of significance at Ohio State.
So we really don't know what Ohio State has in those guys. You know, could it be an Austin Sierreveld who got talked up some for how he's looked in preseason camp? Maybe, but I think we'd probably both still agree that his likely future at Ohio State is at guard.
Could it be moving Donovan Jackson over to left tackle? I think maybe that would be your best option if something happened to Josh Simmons, but he's never played tackle up a collegiate level. So we really don't know how well he would do at tackle.
Plus, you would also then be weakening your left guard spot, even if I feel better about the depth at guard than I do at tackle. So when I just think of who are the most indispensable players on this Ohio State football team, I start with those two offensive tackles because at least at quarterback, they've got a lot of depth there. I mean, I would not look at this and go, if something happens to Will Howard, there's the season.
Like, I still have confidence in Devin Brown, but I think he could step in and do a pretty good job as Ohio State starting quarterback, and I still do not count out the possibility that we see Julian Sane play some snaps of very real significance for this Ohio State football team this year, because everything you continue to hear about Julian Sane is they love Julian Sane. There's a ton of confidence within the Woody Hayes Athletic Center about Julian Sane's future as an Ohio State quarterback. And if everything goes according to plan, Will Howard will be the starter this year, and then most likely Julian Sane will be the starter next year.
The ideal scenario is Will proves to be everything that they hope he can be this year, and he plays the whole season, and then they can kind of groom Julian to be that future after this year, as well as in his final year of eligibility. But I would feel more confident in Ohio State still being able to achieve its goals with another quarterback stepping in behind Will Howard than I would right now in someone else having to step in at offensive tackle.
[Andy Anders]
It's an excellent case with the depth, and Josh Simmons would have been my next guy, certainly, after Fryer and after Will Howard. And I think one of the things for me, too, is I always factor in like where guys need to step up. I feel like Josh Simmons took a lot of strides in the back half of last year, and we've seen good things from him in camp.
I mean, it's still, you know, the memory of him stonewalling Jack Sawyer on a few pass rush reps. But in terms of indispensability, I think you have a great point there. I think if you were to take any one player on Ohio State and say this is the number one guy they can't afford to have go down with an injury, it might be Josh Simmons very well, just because they have so much depth in so many other places.
I think that segues well into one of the next guys on my list is Latham Ransom because Ohio State's safety depth has been a concern all offseason. The top line was a concern before they got Caleb Downs, like who's going to play free safety? Probably Malik Hartford.
But where's he going to get to in year two? You know, now that you have, you know, Caleb Downs, Malik Hartford, your top backup, you feel good about probably at free safety. But I don't know about strong safety.
If Malik is as much an in-the-box player, he has those capabilities, and they cross-train the safeties. But the reason I take Latham Ransom is more indisputable than Caleb Downs is because I just feel better about Malik at that free safety spot. You have Jalen McClain has kind of emerged as that next guy behind those three in the safety depth chart, and he is a true freshman who wasn't the most heralded recruit of Ohio State's 2024 class.
Now, I think he's proven this offseason that he was a little under-ranked perhaps, has a lot of things he's done well, had that interception in the spring game, was the first freshman to lose his black stripe in preseason camp after a few guys lost it in the spring, obviously. A guy who's developed super well has stood out to us when we've watched practice, but you don't want a freshman, and particularly a freshman that was, you know, not exactly a five-star freshman, to be that next option. So I think Ohio State's safety depth is in a pretty precarious spot if either guy goes down, but especially to me if Latham Ransom goes down because I don't know if they have the body types for that strong safety position in particular now that Sonny Stiles has moved to linebacker.
[Dan Hope]
I think that's a valid choice. I'm going to go the other way on it though, and I'm going to say I think the most important player for Ohio State's defense, maybe it's best player too, but I'm going to say it is Caleb Downs because Caleb Downs played strong safety last year at Alabama. So if you really don't have another guy who can play strong safety, you could move Caleb Downs to strong safety and slot Malik Hartford in at that free safety spot, or even Jalen McClain in at that free safety spot.
I don't think they would ideally want to have to do that, but I think all the things Caleb Downs can do on this Ohio State defense, I think that I think I would agree. I think if you're talking about most important players on this defense, I'm putting Downs and Ransom one and two because of the fact that safety is the weakest point of depth on this defense, but I put Caleb Downs at the top because I think he's going to do so much for this defense and he has so much versatility. You can use him in so many different ways, but I think he will have more ability if someone else goes down in that secondary to maybe mask what that person takes away from a defense being out, then maybe a Lathan Ransom does because I think Lathan, he's going to be that strong safety.
Like if Caleb Downs goes down, they're not going to move him to free safety, but Caleb would have that versatility to kind of play wherever they need him to play. And so that's why I would say I think Caleb Downs is the most important player on this defense.
[Andy Anders]
I think sticking in the secondary, there is an argument to be had for Jordan Hancock just because we've had Jim Knowles talk about nickel depth as a concern. It's not one that I necessarily share as much. I think Jermaine Matthews could fill in well.
I think Lorenzo Stiles has potentially shown some things, could fit in there, but given he was limited in preseason practice, you don't know exactly what Lorenzo looks like at corner slash nickel yet. Obviously, we're talking about nickel. Jermaine was naturally an outside corner, has been cross-training at nickel because they've been cross-training more corners, and he's obviously the next corner off the bench.
But Jordan Hancock is so good in that role that I feel like he's a full cut above those other options specifically at nickel where there's not maybe as much separation at other positions for Ohio State, top of the depth chart to the next row. Jordan is a willing defender in the running game and willing to stick his face in the fan, and we saw him make plays and big hits last year. And at the same time, just an awesome cover corner in space.
It's why he carved out a role alongside Sonny Stiles at the nickel to start last year. It's why he took full control of it after Sonny moved back to deep safety when Latham Ransom went down. And Jordan, like I said, I think how good he is at that nickel spot specifically makes him super important for Ohio State, especially as Jim Knowles has voiced a concern about nickel depth.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I would agree that Jordan Hancock is the third most important player on Ohio State's defense after those two safeties because of the fact that you don't know exactly what they have behind him at nickel. I mean, I think, you know, Lorenzo Stiles Jr. is a guy that they like a lot, but he didn't pull. He's he's the only defensive snaps.
He's played in college were free snaps last year where it was basically they were playing prevent and he was like an extra defensive backup there. We have not seen him play that nickel position like in an actual game ever. So you're kind of just going off of what you hear on him even, you know, we didn't even really see him practice that much because he was still recovering from a shoulder injury in those early practices.
So you're kind of just going off what you hear from him what you think he's going to be rather than anything you can actually prove. I do think Jermaine Matthews certainly in the coverage aspect. I think Jermaine Matthews gives you a good security blanket there to where he could go in and he can he can go in and play any of the free corner positions and not be a big drop off in terms of coverage.
I think it's that ability Jordan Hancock also has in the run game where you might lose something if he's not able to go at any point. You know, I think Lorenzo probably brings a little more in the run game than Jermaine and Jermaine maybe brings a little bit more in coverage, but I think as complete a player as Jordan Hancock is at that position. I think he is one of the toughest players on this defense to replace if anything happens to him.
I'm going to bring up two other defensive players who I think maybe would get a little bit overlooked in this conversation, but I think are quietly also very important players to this defense. One of them is Cody Simon. Cody Simon taking over that Mike linebacker role, you know, they're working now and integrating the green dot helmet into college football, the helmet communication.
He's going to be the guy, you know, getting that communication in his helmet when he's on the field. He's going to be the guy, you know, calling out the plays to the rest of the defense. He was just named a captain and give him a Blanco Jersey for a reason.
They expect him to be the leader of this team this year, particularly on the defensive side of the ball and in the linebacker core. And so while I feel pretty good about the linebacker depth right now, I think with Gabe Powers and Arville Reese, both emerging at that Mike linebacker spot in addition to, you know, Sonny Styles and CJ Hicks at will linebacker. I think because Cody has so much on his plate of being that leader from that Mike linebacker spot and you really don't have anybody else who's played any Mike linebacker for collegiate level because Jim Knowles did say last week.
They really haven't cross-trained Sonny and CJ at that spot. So while I know there's some listeners out there who want to see the Sonny Styles CJ Hicks pairing at linebacker Cody's going to be with Mike linebacker. Like he's he's going to be out there as long as he stays healthy for pretty much every meaningful snap at that spot.
And so because of that, I think he's very high on the list of important defensive players. I would put him in that top four along with the starting safeties and Jordan Hancock another guy. I don't know if I'd put him five or maybe I would put a Denzel Burke just because of you know, how good he is, but I think Ty Hamilton's another guy who's quietly a very important player on this defense because if you think about the run stopping efforts of this team being that nose tackle that he is we talked about it a little bit last year where maybe at times a slight weakness for that defense was not really having that superimposing run stopping presence at nose tackle in the middle. They're counting on Ty Hamilton to be that guy. Now.
I do think Caden McDonald can supplement that as well coming off the bench at that nose tackle spot, but their depth in terms of pure nose tackles is not as strong as their depth in terms of pretext. So while Ty Leak Williams, I think is their best defensive tackle. I feel a little better about the depth there because of hero canoe and Jason Moore having two guys that I think you feel good about being in that rotation there.
Whereas I think it knows tackle you're mostly focused on Ty Hamilton and Caden McDonald being those guys at that spot and Caden doesn't have a ton of playing experience yet. And so I think Ty Hamilton's a guy that while he's not as flashy as the other defensive linemen around him might arguably be the most important defensive lineman.
[Andy Anders]
I think you make a good argument there. I'm really high on what Caden McDonald can do this year and I wonder if we'll even see him in some maybe like goal line sub packages some packages like really just short yardage stopping focused packages where you can really use that size and that kind of quickness off the line that burst to as a chess piece as a chess piece and we've talked about chess pieces in the past with this defense. But yeah, I would I would put Ty Hamilton still kind of in that group in that top 10 perhaps but I do think there's that a cut of importance.
I guess you could say that the safeties have I he's it's not as pivotal because you have Caden McDonald there. I guess is what I'm trying to say, but you are right that the interior running game and some of the downhill stuff and run stopping and having that big imposing tackle was a shortcoming for the team last year and Ty Hamilton is expected to step up even more than he did last season when he was splitting the role a little bit with my call and really embrace a that that responsibility that eating blocks getting downhill stopping to run.
I think there are a few more offensive line than worth mentioning. We've kind of empty the coffers as far as important defenders just because they're so deep on that side of the ball, but I think Donovan Jackson is the best offensive lineman Ohio State has and he needs to play like it all year. I think it's important.
They do have some depth at guard. We kind of mentioned that earlier, but whoever loses that right guard competition between Tegra Shabola Carson Hensman and then you'll also have Austin Searvelt obviously just moved out to tackle, but he could slide back in if needed Luke Montgomery could play center or guard. Do you have you have a mixture of guys at the interior in terms of depth, but Donovan Jackson frankly should be an all-american kind of caliber player this year.
If this offensive line is going to reach the ceiling, it wants to reach the Heights. It wants to reach they need Donovan Jackson to be that guy all season. He's multi-time first-team all big 10 not saying he hasn't had a good career to this point, but we saw multiple games where they were big lapses from Donovan Jackson, too.
I think you had a kind of inconsistent season by his standards particularly against Michigan and on the final drive against Michigan not so hash too much on that and then that's something that's weighed heavier on him than anyone else, but and motivated him all offseason. We talked with him about that in the spring, but fixing those lapses and getting those inconsistencies out and being the true stalwart leader of the pack on that offensive line is something Ohio State needs from Donovan Jackson to set the tone and to raise the standard of the entire group, raise his own standard to raise the standard of the entire group. So I think past those two tackles for me Donovan Jackson, maybe even more so than who wins that right guard competition is the next most important player on offense after the two tackles of Will Howard.
[Dan Hope]
Who would you say is the most important offensive player if it's not a quarterback or offensive lineman?
[Andy Anders]
It's a tough one. I would have to go, I think, with Will Kacimeric actually and that might be a curveball, but they have four great receivers and two great running backs. If, you know, the top receivers in Mecca and Bucca, I don't really know who is going to be top between Travion Henderson and Quenshawn Judkins.
They're both so, so good. Either any of those guys goes down, you feel good about the next guy up. I think Will Kacimeric is the only bonafide blocking tight end that Ohio State has and that's the role he fills that could be important that we could, that even the public could be sleeping on the importance of a little bit that could pay dividends, especially for a team that wants to run the ball.
I think as much as Ohio State wants to run the ball this year. Having a good blocking tight end, and I know our own Ramsey would be very pleased that I'm doing a segment on this. Having a good blocking tight end is really important for a good running game.
Five-man offensive fronts are just much easier for defenses to compact and adjust to, so you want to have that tight end on the line of scrimmage when you're running the ball, but if they're just a parking cone out there, then there's not much of a point to it. You need somebody who can kick out, who can seal, who can just occupy and often a defensive lineman. That's what you don't mean, you know, a tight end that's going to knock people back, but you need a good strong solid blocker.
And so I think Will Kacimeric has shown he can do that and it's a trait that I don't think anyone else in this tight end room has shown to this point in their Ohio State or their college careers, wherever they may have been. So Will Kacimeric to me has a skill set that will be really hard to replace if you were unavailable for some reason.
[Dan Hope]
I lobbed up that question thinking Andy's going to say Emeka, Ibuka, or Quenshawn, Judkins, and Trevia, and Henderson, and then I'm going to hit him with the curveball of Will Kacimeric. And then you stole it right away from me. So yeah, I totally agree with you because of the fact that if you take one of those wide receivers out of the top four, or either of the running backs out of the top two, I don't think the drop-off from anywhere from one to four at receiver or one to two at running back is going to be that big.
Whereas I think at tight end, to your point specifically in the blocking game, I think if Will Kacimeric goes down, there is the potential for a bigger drop-off in terms of what the tight ends can do in the blocking game. I think you certainly could make a valid argument for either or a combination of the running backs there because of the fact that the depth behind them is thin. And so, you know, if one of those guys was to go down, I cannot sit here and specifically say one of them is more important than the other because I think they're both great, but collectively having both of them certainly is important because of the fact that you only have freshmen backing him up.
Now, I think based on what we've seen and heard about James Peoples, I do feel like if they need James Peoples to step in and play some significant snaps this year, I don't feel like that would be a dire situation. I feel like James Peoples will be ready to step up as called upon, but because the numbers there are thinner than you would like, certainly both of those running backs are very important players in terms of, you know, having what you need at that running back position to get through this season.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I'd agree. I'm really high on what James Peoples can do and he's an entertaining guy to watch run the ball, man. He keeps his legs turning.
He's a really, really aggressive runner and just, like I said, keeps the legs moving, gets downhill, runs through contact really well, but also has pretty good vision and hips in a shifty and a good burst. And so running back to me, too, is the position in football, one of the least developmental. Not that development isn't important at running back, not that running backs don't develop over time and get much better at their skills, but I just think as opposed to an offensive line or a tight end, it's a position where you can plug and play a little more.
And the number of Ohio State freshmen we have seen contribute in the past, be that J.K. Dobbins, be that Travion Henderson, I think it's evidence of that. So I think if James Peoples were called upon this year, I think he'd do a good job. The question you have then is ball security, right?
I think that's the number one concern when playing any freshman at running back, is are you going to be able to trust him to carry the ball and not turn it over? Because that's, in the end, that's the number one thing that can swing a game. If you're chunking a defense for 10 yards a play, that's great.
But then if you get down to the goal line and you fumble it on the three because the freshman running back, you know, didn't hold it properly, then it undoes all the progress and all the good things. So yes, I think to your point, because of the trust factor, there is an argument to be had about either of those top two running backs being a pretty important player for Ohio State, just because you would like to not have to rely on a freshman unless you need to.
[Dan Hope]
We've talked a lot about the most important players for Ohio State this season. I want to hit on a few other topics before we get out of here for this week. You know, we talked about Will Howard being named the starting quarterback.
There's still a little bit of a question, though, of who will be his top backup quarterback. Ryan Day said last week that Devin Brown would be the number two quarterback if the season was starting right then. But when he was asked if Julian Sain is still in that backup quarterback race, he said, yeah, for sure.
So what do you think are the odds that Julian Sain could actually usurp Devin Brown to be the number two quarterback on the depth chart this year?
[Andy Anders]
I think it's a case of you have a couple different situations here, right? If something happened to Will Howard, I think the timetable of when Julian Sain would be the next guy to go in and be the quarterback for Ohio State is faster than the timetable of he's going to be the backup because you want to keep Devin happy. You want to keep Devin engaged in there and ready to provide that depth.
And so Devin's going to be the next guy into games, I think, at least for the first half of the season. I think maybe in that second half, maybe in November, you could start to see Julian challenge for that spot, for that to be the next guy behind Will Howard. But I think you get a month or two into the season if something were to happen to Will.
If Julian's been showing the right thing in practice, I think you go with the guy that has the higher upside. That's the general sense I get is that both the staff, we think that Julian probably has the highest upside in this quarterback room period of what he can become. I think you go with that guy over Devin if he's shown enough in practice that he's not, you know, going to have pure freshman moments and be turning the ball over constantly and these kinds of things.
So for me, I think it's two different timetables. I think Julian is going to have to prove it in the regular season a little bit. I don't think if Will went down week one that Julian would be the next guy in, but I think he's going to be able, the timetable is different.
Like I said, it's accelerated if Will Howard goes down and you need a guy to be the guy versus who's the backup when it's, you know, when the game's in hand.
[Dan Hope]
I agree with you on that. I think Devin will be the second quarterback into the game against Akron and probably against Western Michigan and Marshall. I mean, realistically, we expect to see multiple quarterbacks, probably at least three quarterbacks and all three of those games because Ohio State should win them all comfortably and they should be looking to get multiple quarterbacks reps.
You know, does it get as far down as Lincoln, Keenholz, and Aaron Nolan? We'll have to see on that. That's a lot of guys to get reps, but I think there will be a concerted effort in at least those first three games to get both Devin and Julian in the game to get them reps and that might ultimately determine who is the number two quarterback for the rest of the season.
I think, you know, that competition you can allow to kind of play out into the season a little bit because, you know, at least until you actually need that guy to step in, you know, but I agree with you if they needed, you know, if Will Howard got hurt in the first quarter against Akron and they needed someone to step in and there, I think it would be Devin Brown. If Will Howard got hurt at some point this season and then he can't play the next week and they have a week to kind of prepare somebody to be that starter. I wouldn't be surprised if that guy is Julian saying, especially as the season progresses and so it's going to be fascinating.
I know. I think that's probably something we're going to be talking about after some of these non-conference games because, you know, if those games prove to be what we expect them to be, you know, how the backup quarterbacks look might be among the more compelling storylines coming out of those games. And so it's going to be fascinating to watch but I, you know, I do think, you know, the the odds of, you know, Julian saying, you know, it would be an interesting like line, like who is more likely to start a game for Ohio State this season, Devin Brown or Julian saying, like that's a tough question to answer.
[Andy Anders]
Who would you pick? I lean Julian saying if you're asking me who I think is most likely to start a game between the two of them just because I would do I would do the upside.
[Dan Hope]
It's all about it's it could go either way, but I would too. I just think there's a you just hear it the way they talk about Julian saying they really like Julian saying and I think again, if everything goes according to plan, Will Howard will start every game this year and Julian saying will very likely be the starting quarterback in week one in 2025, but you know, we all know it's a long season. You know, you we always think about the Cardale Jones season back in 2024 you never 2014.
Excuse me. You never know when they might need that next guy and I do think there's a chance Julia Julian saying could be that next man up another topic that is front of mind. I know for many Ohio State fans right now is offensive line recruiting because Ohio State suffering a big loss on the recruiting trail on Saturday as David Sanders jr.
Committed to Tennessee and Andy we've talked about it multiple times on this show over the course of a summer that David Sanders was the must-get prospect in the 2025 class for Ohio State. He was the number one guy Ohio State needed to land to really kind of, you know, put the finishing touches on what is still an elite recruiting class. What is still the number one recruiting class in the country, but does have a hole in that there had been talks about Ohio State potentially taking as many as five offensive linemen in this class.
Ohio State now only has two offensive linemen in this class one very good tackling Carter Lowe and another in-state prospect that you know, we'll be more of a developmental guy in Jake Cook and those are two good guys to have him a class. I mean Carter Lowe's a top 50 overall prospect, you know, Jake Cook's the kind of guy you take a chance on because he's right in your own backyard. He's wanted to be a Buckeye his whole life.
You got you got to take chances on some of those kind of guys and see what they develop into. So those are two good additions to the class along the offensive line, but those two are not enough and Ohio State really kind of put all of its eggs in the David Sanders jr. Basket.
And now there's really no clear place. They can pivot to get another top offensive tackle in this recruiting class. And so while this class still could end up being the number one recruiting class in the country and there's a lot to like about it, you know, it's been pretty clear for a few years that the offensive line has been the weakest area for Ohio State in terms of recruiting and this only turns the heat up on Justin Frye going into a season where I think he is going to be coaching for his job.
[Andy Anders]
Borrow a phrase from the younger generation. Justin Frye needs to show Ohio State exactly what he does this season. The lapses we saw from the offensive line last year.
These recruiting misses have been not up to the Ohio State standard, not what you want from an Ohio State position coach. You know, you're in the same room as Tim Walton and Brian Hartline and guys that have shown they can be elite recruiters and elite developers. This offensive line has not developed anything close to an elite level thus far has not recruited.
Certainly at anything to an elite level thus far and Carter Lowe is a great prospect and Jake Cook is a good developmental piece, but those were both Ohio guys. You need to win some out-of-state battles for premier talents to build the talent up of this offensive line because dating back to years now you have missed consistently on these big recruitments and yes, it's a premium position. It's a position where there are less elite prospects sometimes than others, but you're Ohio State.
You have to go out and win these battles. And if you don't you need backup plans that are good Ohio State caliber players. You can't be getting in late on these four-star guys and these guys could that could help your program long-term.
That might not be, you know, your number one priority, but you keep them in the fold and you keep pushing and you have them ready in case, you know, you're the number one tackle in the country decides to go elsewhere for whatever reason and that's the main issue here is that there just doesn't feel like there's any contingency plan after losing Davin Sanders Jr. to Tennessee and that's the main issue on the recruiting trail. And then again, you follow that up with, well, last year the offensive line was the number one issue with the team and it's now the top concern going into this season. If it's not a strength and especially if the offensive line is like one of the main reasons why they don't win a national title or something it has to be it for Justin Frey.
You cannot it's just not up to the standards that are set at Ohio State and I'm not normally one that likes to call for people's jobs, but he's got to prove it this year on the field. That's all that's left because he's he's whiffed on David it's kind of out the door because you don't have contingency plans like the recruiting you're going to get Carter Lowe's a good prospect at least but like you have to you just have to prove it on the field this year. This offensive line has to develop to be an Ohio State caliber offensive line be one of the better offensive lines at least in the Big 10 preferably in the country.
And so Justin Frey's really got a lot to prove going into this season in it. It's only been heightened by a huge whiff on the recruiting trail.
[Dan Hope]
I'm right there with you as anybody who read my column on 11 warriors this weekend knows and I think this offensive line has to be a national championship caliber offensive line or you have to make a change and I think history would point to that Greg Stradrawa got fired after Ohio State's offense was number one in the country in both points and yards per game and the reason why was because of his recruiting and he had several wins as a recruiter that are bigger than anything Justin Frey can point you so far. I mean a year before he got fired Ohio State brought in Donovan Jackson the number one guard in the country out of Texas, you know, I mean obviously Paris Johnson was an in-state guy, but he was still a top 10 overall prospect, you know, they got Luke Whipler out of New Jersey.
They got, you know, Matt Jones out of New York, you know, Greg Stradrawa his recruiting also was not consistently up to the Ohio State standard, but it wasn't bad like Greg Stradrawa had some, you know, noteworthy wins as a recruiter. And if Justin Frey it's really hard to point to even one at this point and again, that's not necessarily to take away from the players that have come in but there's no example yet of Justin Frey having to compete with all the big boys across the nation to land an out-of-state prospect and then winning that battle. I mean really the closest one would be Ian Moore and Ian Moore was a guy that, you know, it was pretty much like from the time they offered Ian Moore, like it seemed pretty clear.
He was going to be a Buckeye. I mean Luke Montgomery was a top 100 prospect, but I think any offensive line coach could have won that battle. Like Luke Montgomery was a, you know, lifelong Buckeye fan who really wanted to come to Ohio State.
And so it doesn't take away from winning a Luke Montgomery or Carter Lowe battle, but you just don't get as much credit for those as you do if you go win a David Sanders Jr. battle or even a Josh Petty battle, which they lost that one too last week with Josh Petty going to Georgia Tech. And so, you know, I think the recruiting pedigree just isn't there based on what the Ohio State standard is. On top of that, the results recruiting the transfer portal have been very mixed too.
Now, I mean they do have two transfers starting on their offensive line this year and Josh Simmons and Seth McLaughlin and those were quality additions, but Ohio State has also missed out on numerous other offensive linemen that it's tried to recruit out of a transfer portal. And so I think you look at all of that and yes, the standard this year for Justin Fry has to be a national championship caliber offensive line. I'm not going to go as far to say it has to be if Ohio State doesn't win a national championship, he's fired.
But if Ohio State's offensive line prevents Ohio State from winning a national championship, then I think Ohio State will have a new offensive line coach in 2025.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, it's a change that will have to be made undoubtedly and it's going to be an interesting year to see how he responds and how the offensive line responds for that reason. And I think the one benefit that you have is again, Jip Kelly knows how to maximize offensive lines with scheme and his running game and how he does pre-step motion, how he just teaches and adjusts things and tweaks things is at an elite level. So he'll have that benefit, but you've got to like you said, you've got to put that national championship caliber offensive line out there.
I think the other big piece of news to touch on here before we wrap up is the captain selections. You got Cody Simon who we talked about a little earlier, Emeka Ibuka, Travion Henderson, Jack Sawyer are your four Ohio State captains. I don't think there were any surprises for me in that mix, Dan.
I think you called these four pretty well in a blurb for an article earlier this offseason. So any surprises though among the group for you?
[Dan Hope]
No, not at all because I did write an article in July about who I thought Ohio State's most likely captains were this year and the first four players on that list were Jack Sawyer, Cody Simon, Emeka Ibuka, and Travion Henderson. And so if you had asked me to pick four captains, those four would have been my choices. Yeah, as Ryan Day said on the radio on Monday, I think there were eight to ten guys who could have been captains for this team.
I mean, I think you look at guys like Denzel Burke, Leif and Ransom, Donovan Jackson, JT Tuomoloau, those are all guys who also, if any of those guys had been captains, I wouldn't have batted an eye. I wouldn't have been surprised, but we have seen the last couple years Ohio State move back in the direction toward wanting a more selective group of captains rather than, you know, it got to as many as nine captains under Urban Meyer. We've seen Ryan Day kind of want to refine that into a more select group.
And so I think these four make total sense. I think, you know, having two on offense, two on defense, you know, representing four different position groups. I think it's a really good mix of guys.
I think maybe the only slight surprise to me was Cody Simon getting the block-o over Jack Sawyer. I had felt like Jack Sawyer was the most likely guy to get that block-o, but that's not to take anything away from Cody Simon, and he would have probably been my second choice to get that award. I mean, you're talking about a guy who, you know, you can talk to anybody on the team.
They say that Cody's a phenomenal leader, probably the best leader on the entire team, and that's why, you know, he got this block-o award. He's a fifth-year senior, as we talked about before, somebody who's going to play a major role for that defense this year. And so it's not surprising that Cody Simon got the block-o, per se.
Jack, if I had to guess, I would have guessed that it would be Jack Sawyer, and part of that's because of the fact that you look at the history of the block-o. Before this year, Cam Babb was the only non-Ohioan who had gotten that award, and so I thought maybe they go, you know, with the local guy and Jack Sawyer. We had also, you know, heard so much about how he rallied the team together to, you know, have, you know, so many of those seniors stay at Ohio State for another year.
But Cody Simon played a big part in that, too. Cody Simon was actually the first of those players with NFL draft stock to publicly confirm that he was staying for another year. So, Cody Simon is another reason why so many upperclassmen are back at Ohio State for the 2024 season, and that is certainly reflected in his selection as this year's block-o recipient.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, Day said that, too, when talking about, he mentioned Cody and Jack kind of in the same breath as being a large way responsible for bringing so many guys back. And it was interesting, too, you know, Ohio State released, as they often do, captain calls on Twitter, which are X, sorry, X. They released captain calls on X with basically, you know, position coach and player calling parents of, you know, the captains to break the news that they've been selected as Ohio State captains, because it's obviously such a huge honor and puts you in a really prestigious group and shows you, you know, that you're not only an on-field star but an off-field leader.
And it was interesting when they did Cody Simon's, James Laurinaitis revealed that Cody was the top vote getter because it's voted on by your teammates. Like, who gets captain? Cody was the top vote getter from his teammates.
So, I think that goes to show just how big of a leader he is on this team from that Mike position, and I wonder if that also had something to do with his selection as getting the block-o jersey. That he got the single most votes to be a captain. And obviously deserves it for how committed he's been to the program.
He's been through a lot of ups and downs in his Ohio State career early, really came on strong in the back half of last season when he got some more opportunities to play. That's Tommy Eikenberg got hurt even early on, showed some great glimpses, huge fourth downstop against Notre Dame, and he's going to be, like we said, kind of the backbone of the defense this year from that Mike linebacker spot, making the calls, dictating things, and yeah, I think he would have been my number two pick after Jack Sawyer, just because, like you said, Ohioan made a lot of sense because of how pronounced his leadership role was in bringing everyone back. But Cody Simon would have been my number two choice, and the pick makes a lot of sense.
[Dan Hope]
Well, that's all we've got for this week's show. It will be game week next week. So, we hope you will join us again then on Real Pod Wednesday.