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Interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders who’ve “made it” in Thailand. Real stories of ambition, setbacks, and strategic wins on the path to success. Built for founders and operators who want to win in Thailand.
Guests from the US, UK, Australia, and Thailand. Honest journeys and cross-cultural lessons. Inspiration for anyone building in the Thai market.
Apply to be a guest:
https://madeitinthailand.com/apply
Hosted by Scott Pressimone, a US expat based in Thailand for 13+ years and owner of Fractiond, a Thailand-based strategy consultancy.
#ThailandBusiness #ExpatSuccess #ThaiExpat
Chokdee: It's not about making good
money at the very beginning of your
career, but it's more about how you
learn to work with other people.
Self-discipline is definitely the key.
Deliver beyond what is
expected out of your role.
For international company to be
successful coming to Thailand, they
have to serve the local palette.
Learn the local way.
And just certain things to
fit in the local context.
But of course, keep the
good things that you have.
One thing that I learned is
that people are coachable if
only they want to be coached.
If they don't want to be coached,
don't waste your time on that.
Forget about the size
of your organization.
It's about whether you can
deliver what you promise from
the customer point of view.
That's all that matters.
Scott: All right, so today I'm sitting
down with Khun Chokdee Wisansing.
Really happy to have
you today, Khun Chokdee.
Thank you so much for joining me.
Chokdee: Oh, the pleasure
is all mine, Scott.
Thank you very much for having me.
Scott: So I wanna give a brief
introduction of who you are.
You have been the COO or the
CPO of some, of the biggest
conglomerates here in Thailand,
including AWC Central and Yum.
But I've also seen the other
side of you, which is the smaller
business side, because you also
have a new small business, a
relatively new small business.
Can you explain that briefly?
Chokdee: Yeah, sure.
I started off my career as a
professional employee, working
for banks, working for a company
both in Thailand and, overseas.
Grew up my career in a corporate world
until I become, at one stage, Chief
Operations Officer with different
company, with different organization.
And then I became, a Chief
People Officer as well.
Now that I'm retired, it just
happened, may last year that I have
reached my, retirement age at 60.
Now I'm, free as a bird.
But, I also try to, look for
things to keep me occupied so I
have, start to own a business.
It's a, small business.
It's a confectionary business,
that, that keep me, going.
And, most important of all is help
me realize my dream about how I can
help, develop younger generation.
Scott: Yes.
And so that brings me to something
that I've seen from you or the way
that I look at you sometimes Khun
Chokdee, is that I've seen you
through the Australian Thai Chamber.
Yes.
I've seen you involved in NextGen, which
is a subcommittee of Australian Thai.
And, I see you as a bridge between the
gap of sort of the young generation
and the older generation, as well
as a bridge between the gap of the,
small business and the large business.
Because as you said, you had, a long
experience working for very large
companies, but you're also involved
in the chamber working with smaller
companies and now having your own right.
And then the other thing is of
course, your, your education and
everything and your experience has,
I think a bridge between the Thai
business, or the Thai way of doing
business, but also the international
or western way of doing business.
So that's, I think the main reason
I really wanted to have you on was
because, I think there's a lot of
wisdom that you can share because
you have that breadth of experience.
So does that make sense?
Chokdee: Yeah.
Yeah.
Happy to share.
What I have, done, over, over the years.
If I may begin, I, I'm, born and
raised here, in Bangkok, right?
And, has, always, a dream of
becoming a white collar since
I was a high school student.
From there onwards, I went to
study at, Thammasat University.
I got my degree in, economics.
And that's, basic, basically
prepare myself to become a,
good, a white collar, worker.
So after graduation, I went to a
foreign bank, fulfill my dream,
and then I realized that, being
a white collar at the junior
level, you don't earn very much.
In order to become successful, to go up
the corporate ladder, you need to do a
lot of hard work and, basically prepare
yourself to go up, the corporate ladder.
Working in a large organization.
There, there a lot of
people in the organization.
But how can you break
through corporate ladder?
How can you climb up?
For me, it's all about having
a good discipline, dedication,
hardworking, that's normal.
I think, in order to be successful,
we know people have to put in
lot of hours and, hard work.
On top of that, it's about discipline,
dedication, and, follow the
direction that, that you receive.
Especially when you
are, at a junior level.
I later learned it's not about making
good money at the very beginning of
your career, but it's more about how
you learn to work with other people.
How you learn to develop yourself.
With continuous learning
approach, right?
And, dedication on what you do.
And, there is no, no compromise
in, in, that regard, right?
Self-discipline is definitely the key.
And, keep, deliver what is
expected out of your role.
And better than that, deliver
beyond the what is expected
out of your role, right?
And in the later year, the
financial reward will come.
This, is, what I believe.
Scott: And that really brings up,
I think something you sometimes
might see is people moving up the
corporate ladder by job hopping
or trying to move up that way.
So it sounds like you're more of a
proponent of the money comes later.
Maybe don't think of that first and try
to get the short term wins of, I, I got
a few extra thousand baht in my salary.
Maybe that short term thinking,
Chokdee: There were times in my career
that I look at people, job hopping and
get their salary increase and later on
until I became a chief people officer
of AWC at the time, I, I have seen many
younger people adopt that approach.
And it's proven that
it's not sustainable.
Because, job hopping, let's say
if you stay with, within a job for
less than a year or two, right?
Do not have enough time to
achieve, something great.
For me I'm, I, can speak
from the bottom of my heart.
No, that's not the right way.
You do, eventually you have to
show that, you have perseverance.
You have, gone through, up
and downs in your career.
Sometime it's not because of you, but,
sometime it's a economic situation.
The market condition, when there's
a Gulf War or when there's a COVID,
economic situation go up and down.
And, once you have gone through those,
easy time, tough time, difficult time,
at least it's something that is stick.
It will always stay with you.
Nobody can take that away and you can
be, confident, when you talk about,
what you have achieved in, your career.
Scott: Yeah, that was exactly what I
was gonna bring up and ask you about is
that with job hopping, I can see people
benefiting in a way, short term on
the resume and saying, I work for this
company, or I worked in this division.
So from a resume, resume perspective,
at the surface it may look okay,
but then to your point, you're
probably not doing a lot of change
management or actually having a
big impact in six months or a year.
And so when you're now interviewing for
another job or trying to do something
else, you probably don't have as
much experience at that deeper level.
And I think we've all interviewed
individuals where you start asking
them some deeper questions and they
don't have those deeper answers.
So it sounds like you
need a bit more time.
Chokdee: Yeah, Totally agree with you.
Growing someone career, it's not
quick, not a quick things, Good
things, take times, And, not only
that, the result that you have to
deliver, according to your role, but
what about, working relationship.
How do you, what kind of relationship
do you have with your peers?
Yeah, with your subordinate, or
with your superior, A successful
professional, once they grow up
the ladder, you can tell that
there, there will be a large group
of people who used to be their
subordinate behind them, right?
Yeah.
When you go into, networking or business
event, you'll see, leaders who, are
admired by a large group of people
who can give, opinion on certain thing
and people would listen and follow.
Whereas, if you.
Keep changing from one
company to another company.
You will not have a large, a group
of people, behind you who can
talk positive thing about you.
Okay.
I'm glad I'm not one of those.
I do believe I do have, friends and
colleague and ex colleague who, who
can speak up for me, if I need that.
Scott: It's interesting, and I hope
you don't mind me mentioning this, but
we were talking before about now that
you, are retired and maybe you're doing
some level of consulting and other
things like this, it's that you now
have that network to where you know who
needs help or you know who to trust.
you essentially seem to have
that following or those people in
different places that, are helpful
to you at this stage and you're
probably helpful to them as well.
the, it's essentially, as you
said, playing the long game.
Chokdee: It is a long game.
It's a marathon, definitely.
It's not a quick dash.
Scott: Yeah, absolutely.
The main sections that I wanted
to make sure we talk about today,
systems, people and mindset,
because I think you're definitely
a systems minded individual.
You clearly care about people given the
course, the positions you've been in.
And on the mindset side, I think it's
back to that positivity and outlook.
And so I wanna definitely
touch on that a bit as well.
But on the systems side, I'm curious
if we take the perspective of companies
that are expanding into Thailand, right?
So these large, companies that
are saying, I want to see how
I can hit the Thai market.
I'm curious, have you seen what's
worked well for companies as they're
expanding their operations into Thailand
or trying to service the Thai market.
And if there are any cases of things
that haven't worked well or any failures
that you've seen as these companies
are trying to expand into Thailand.
Chokdee: Yeah.
Let me break this,
topic into, two areas.
I think for a company,
in general, to work well.
that, that is, one part, and the
other part I will talk about how as
international company can come to
Thailand and operate, successfully here.
My thought about that,
so that, a separate part.
Now, let's go back to the
first part in my, career.
I happen to learn, from one book,
but I'm sorry, I, it's my bad.
I don't remember, from where it is,
but I can say it's not my, there are
three s, which is very important.
First, as a company, you
have to have a strategy.
Because the strategy will define the
direction of the company moving forward.
The strategy will define what
is, what are we the requirement
to make that strategy.
So number one, the company have
to have a clear, strategy, what
the company want to have, right?
Then in order, to make that
strategy happen successfully,
you have to have a system.
So this is a second s, right?
Running with system will help,
make sure, will help avoid
all the possible risk, right?
Things run with a, system and you
eliminate the human, error part,
because you have a good system.
And the third is, the structure.
So once you have the.
Stretch, strategy.
You apply the system and now you
can design the structure of the
organization to fit in, how to
deliver the strategy and how to,
make good use of the system you have.
Now, when it's come to structure,
then it's about people, right?
You put the, the right person,
to the right job, put the
right man to the right job.
And, each and everyone, each and every
member of the organization, they have to
know exactly you, what are their roles?
Why are they there?
Scott: Yeah.
Chokdee: And once they know clearly
what are their roles, then they can
start thinking of, them, what do
they have to do on a daily basis to
fulfill the requirement of their role?
Okay.
At the end of the day, no, nobody, no
one is, bigger than the organization.
And now I can say, Who coined this one?
It's Alex Ferguson.
He said that no, no one is,
the bigger than the team.
Everyone has the role to play no
matter who within the organization.
And you just have to make sure that you
fulfill the requirement of your role.
It would be even better that you
extend, you expand your role and
you help the organization, help your
colleague, help your subordinate,
or even help your superior to
deliver their role successfully.
And you are, a helper, to them as well.
So if everyone in the organization
completely fulfill their role, expand
their role to help others to fulfill
their roles, wow, what a great company.
What a great company that we would have.
I think this is, what I learned and
I think it's, important for a, a
company to be successful To have this.
Now to, should I move
on to the second part?
Scott: One, one just comment I
wanted to make on that is you're
mentioning how important it is to
be clear on what the roles are.
And I'm curious if you've seen this
before, but when I think roles are not
very clear, I think everyone tends to
feel that they're doing a favor for
somebody else, And, so then, people will
do the thing where they'll think, oh,
I'm doing that for this other person.
And I, it seems, I'm curious if
you've seen that before though,
where there's tension because
people didn't make the roles clear.
The relationship between different
departments clear and then so everyone's
living in this middle zone where
it's vague and no one really knows.
Have you seen that happen before?
Chokdee: I think a. Will define
a structure, will help eliminate,
the issue that you just mentioned.
I, I learned in my career,
the importance of, having
a clear, defined role.
But, okay, let me step back one more
time before you can define which
role to have within the organization
you, you have to, have a good,
picture of what your, organization,
how you want it to look like first.
By all means it not necessarily
to follow structure of
how the organization.
You can create your own.
This is at the liberty of the
leader how you want to have the
organization the way you want, right?
It doesn't have to be high hierarchical.
Yeah.
It doesn't have to be too flat.
As well.
Define, your own according
to your business need.
It also, it doesn't mean that, let's
say I, I graduated from economy.
it doesn't, I don't have to be only
economist or someone who is, I dunno.
And, a computer engineer from computer
engineer, it doesn't mean, he or
she has to only perform that role.
If he has other interests
in other, functions.
Let's so be it.
I said all this all the time in
my mind, I'm thinking of my, my,
my personal company that I owe.
Now my nephew, who is, a graduate
from computer science and now he's,
operation manager, producing, candies.
My, accountant is, a law graduate
and she's doing my accounting.
okay.
I think that come later, but it's
about defining the structure.
You, you find the person who
fit in the role within your,
the structure that you decide.
You don't have to follow anyone.
You can combine role.
For example, in my organization now
I have, one person who in charge of,
procurement and stock management.
And that's a primary role.
And the secondary role is sales.
So people can have a primary role and
secondary role as well, I can talk a lot
more on this one, but, in order to avoid
the gray area that you just mentioned,
first, if you define the role clearly,
it will help eliminate the gray area.
And secondly Yeah.
If that happen.
Again, is about the sense of,
ownership, sense of belonging,
teamwork that the, leader will have
to, not sure that, promote that.
Scott: Got it.
Yeah.
So I'm definitely gathering, there's
not one right answer to any of
this, but it sounds like having the
strategy and having the structure
and, even if you're creating your own
structure that hasn't been done maybe
before, or it's a different hybrids
as you mentioned, having primary
function and, secondary functions.
It's that, at least everyone
knows what they are.
It sounds like that transparency and
visibility sounds very important.
Now again, going to the,
international expansion sort of thing.
What do you say on that side of it
when it comes down to companies that
are trying to expand into Thailand?
Maybe they don't understand
Thailand well enough, but I'd
love to hear your opinion on that.
Chokdee: This is, a great topic because
I have a hands-on experience, at many
occasions, to work with, international
company and, bring them to Thailand.
I think, the, successful case
that I have, witnessed, with
my own eyes, I think I can
talk about, KFC, for example.
KFC is, our leading
brands, here in Thailand.
At one stage in my career, I had
a privilege, to work for, Yum!
Restaurants International.
I was a Chief, Operation Officer here.
And, I'm very proud, to
work for that organization.
Such a great brand.
Good reputation worldwide.
And here in Thailand is a
well established brand, Thais
love, KFC, fried chicken.
How is a success story of how
a successful international
brand, can operate here?
If you go to, KFC in Thailand,
you will find some local dishes.
I think, last week they just
launched, Khao Pad Krapow,
which is a popular Thai dish.
Of course you don't, see that, in any
other KFC in the whole wide world.
Only in Thailand.
Just one example.
But, I think, the audience know
that KFC had many, product many
menu, adjusted, to the local.
So the great story is for
international company to be
successful, coming through that they
have to, serve the local palette.
Learn the local way.
And adjust whatever, adjust certainty
to fit in the local context.
But of course, keep, the
good things that you have.
KFC is a world class operation system.
Keep that.
And, implement that kind of world class,
operation system here in this market.
The Thais will learn the world
class, standard, learn how to
operate in a systematic way.
But when it's come to adjust to
the local, customer requirement,
you should have that flexibility.
Should have flexibility.
Another successful story that I
could tell, I would share from my
own experience, is as, Back in food.
It must have been almost, 20 years
ago when, I helped, a Thai, company, a
central restaurant group at the time, to
introduce a Ramen brand here in Bangkok.
Traditionally ramen noodle serve
in Japan is coming a big bowl.
Yeah.
and, we managed to convince the,
Japanese Ramen brand to allow
us to serve a smaller portion.
My argument was at the time was that
because Thai, we always like to, we,
have, we eat in a much smaller portion
Compared to the us, compared to, Japan.
With that argument.
I managed to convince, the brand to
allow me to serve a smaller portion.
Actually is a children
size for Japanese.
And I told them, look, I promise
that the revenue, will not drop,
in, restaurant language we call the
average, ticket, sales per, customer.
I guarantee it will not drop
because I know for a fact that
Thai will not order only a ramen,
but they will order side dishes.
Scott: Yes.
Chokdee: Because Thai love side dishes.
Whereas, in Japan, in the
traditional way, people will have
their ramen, And maybe they'll
have a deep-fried dumpling.
The user maybe.
But Thai, we like to eat
many other side dishes.
So with the smaller size.
Children's, Japanese children's size
to tie with the ticket of the sales
was, met the expectation and they,
it went beyond the expectation too.
This another good example of how
international brand come to operate
in Thailand, adjust to the local,
consumer behavior and become successful.
Yeah.
Scott: Excellent.
So I guess if you're coming in, and
I think it's easy, if you've had
a lot of success around the world
to, believe that you're just gonna
have success, there can maybe be
some level of arrogance in thinking
it's just gonna work in Thailand.
Whereas if you instead adapt to the
local, palette and way of eating and
things like this, it sounds like in this
case you can do the same, if not better.
So that's, great.
Now I'm curious then about other
adaptations, because some people
that come to Thailand and some
companies might come across Thai time.
Thai time.
Okay.
So maybe not necessarily, always
on time to meetings or always on
time to events, things like this.
That's what we call Thai time.
Now, I'm assuming that doesn't
work in larger organizations.
And to be honest, when I go to some
of these bigger companies, it seems
that everyone seems on time, my meal
gets to me on time, things like this.
So I'm curious if you
have an opinion on that.
And one other thought,
that comes to mind is.
I think I have more tie time than
you do nowadays because you are
someone who even just organizing this
interview, you, are moving forward.
You've got your plan, you've got
your calendar, and you're very,
you're more on time than I am.
I can tell you that much.
So, I'm curious, what is your opinion
on this and do you have any, advice to,
let's say the smaller business owners
or the larger ones that, that are
trying to adopt to Thailand and they're
noticing, some cultural differences.
Do you think that with SOPs and
with standardization, you're able
to achieve the same level that you
can achieve in other countries?
Chokdee: It's a cultural thing.
You're right.
It's a, it is a cultural thing.
I think if you talk to,
people like myself, you, you
experience, certain level, of,
time, my time management, right?
I think if you talk to people
in, up country in Thailand,
they operate totally different.
But I, I, I wouldn't say, what is right
or what is wrong, is different way of
living, is how they've been, brought up.
How they have grown up
within that environment.
Whether, is time the most important
thing, like we have to give priority.
Or you were born in a rural
area, when you are, you were 24
hours, have different priority.
I was fortunate to be, exposed,
to diverse culture, western
culture, eastern culture,
north, south, et cetera.
So I have developed my own
way of time management, right?
Definitely I wouldn't say
my is better than others.
But it's my, my, my way
of managing my term.
Which I would say it would start
from, if people want to learn
from me, then happy to share.
I think it's more about, respect.
It's more about respect.
And first and foremost be
before you can respect others.
Do have to respect yourself first.
I respect myself.
And, how, do I do that?
Is because, I want to achieve so
many things within 24 hours, within
seven days, I learned that the only
way that I can achieve those many
things is to put things on calendar.
Now, we, in the old days,
we have to carry a diary.
And now with the convenience
of mobile phone, you can put
everything on your mobile phone.
I have trained myself to make good
use of, calendar, in my phone.
Because I respect myself.
I know, that I can predict, myself what
gonna happen within the course of the
day or within the course of the week.
Everything is in, in, in my calendar.
And I respect myself to follow that.
And of course, then come when I respect
others that, bye-bye, be on time.
Or if you really can't, you have to
let people know, in that ones that
did that you really can't, how,
allowed you're gonna be, et cetera,
et cetera, is, more about respect.
And I know there are many
Thais who are like me as well.
who.
Who respect themselves, respect
other and, like to be on time.
Scott: But yeah.
Yeah, I guess I'm just thinking from the
perspective of some owners that might
have experienced it and not know how to
deal with it, not knowing how to attract
the right people that, that, essentially
are very professional and can do that.
But at the same time, I guess the lesson
I'm hearing from you, correct me if I'm
wrong, but it's lead by example, right?
So respect yourself, respect your
employees, do these things, and
you're creating a culture of that.
Is that fair to say?
Chokdee: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, yeah, back to the point
that, create your own things.
For me, I think each and every one of
us, can create your own life, can create
your own structure, can create your own
way of living, can create your own time,
create your own dream and make your own.
Because at the end of the day.
Nobody gonna give you, you can achieve,
what you want by creating your own.
Scott: Yes.
I love that.
I love that.
Which, brings me into the kind of
the topic of talent and people,
because again, people seem central
respecting people, attracting the
right people, building something with
the other people on your team to make
something bigger than yourself, right?
So people is a big part of this.
But I will share that there
seems a bit of a conflict.
I'm sure this always happens,
but there's a little bit of a
conflict between the younger
generation and the newer generation.
And as I said before, I feel that
you're a bit of a bridge because, as
you're retiring from your career, still
obviously still involved in a lot of
companies and a lot of initiatives,
but at the same time, there's this
younger generation coming in that
wants to do things differently.
And so since you've seen both sides
of that, What is your opinion on this?
How do we find this mix to where,
we're leveraging the younger, energetic
generation, but we're also taking
the wisdom from the older generation?
Chokdee: I'm very
passionate about this topic.
Scott, really this is this drive
me going each day is this topic.
I'm, truly passionate about this.
Why?
Because when I look at what is happening
in the world, what happening in, in,
Thailand, at the end of the day, across
generation, we will have to coexist.
We cannot have one generation without
other generation, or we have to coexist.
Now, how can we coexist,
peacefully and successfully?
And everyone, get what they want.
I think, all, the generation
been there, done that, right?
Unfortunately, there are some who,
doesn't give much credit, to the
emerging of the younger generation,
which, I'm feel sorry for that.
But at the same time, I'll Also see
younger generation who disregard
whatsoever what the past generation
have done and have achieved.
I, but I don't think, the world
should, build that way, right?
For those, who are elder.
I, realize, myself every day that,
my time is getting less and less.
And I'm not saying
this in a sad way, is.
It's a natural thing.
I should start counting down, already,
because I'm, 61, this year, right?
And I'm not gonna be
there another 60 year.
So it is time to, pass on to the next
generation and make sure that they
will, be, perform better than what
Baby Boomer or what Gen X have done.
It should be about helping them
make sure that they're on the
right path and they want, they,
they will perform better than
what baby Boomer gen has achieved.
On the other side, younger generation
be mindful that one day you'll be old.
As well.
One day you will be, in 30
years you will be, old and
there will be another, younger
generation, coming to replace you.
I think it's about respect, right?
And we have to coexist.
It'll be best if we can coexist
in cool harmony and respect
each other the way they deserve.
That the older generation, they deserve
to be respect because what they have,
all the knowledge and and experience
that they have accumulated is.
It must have worth something.
It cannot be garbage.
It must have worth something.
Look at the way, there's
a world we are living in.
Look at Thailand.
We want it to be, but it's not bad.
No, it's not garbage.
So keep them the credit that they
deserve, but at the same time.
Elder generation have to listen
because the world will belong to
the younger people sooner or later.
And we, it will always belong
to the younger generation
afterwards and afterwards also.
And now I must say that younger people
now, actually, you are much better than
when I was at your age, because now
you have technology to help, right?
At my time, if I want to learn
something, I have to, go to class.
I have to go to library.
I have to read books.
Now, you, you have, you don't have
to go to library anymore now you
have knowledge at your fingertips.
Now you have AI.
So this generation.
At the service.
You are much smarter, much more
efficient, but at the same time,
don't, please don't, too, don't be
too much, confidence in what you have.
Because the class is never full, right?
If, you live your life, with,
half empty, then you can always,
learn more and be even, better.
I think I would love to see, we all
live, coexist, respect each other.
Listen to each other.
Don't disregard, anyone.
Because one, if you start with,
respect, then, I think then, that's
the way we, should, live together.
Respect each other.
Learn from each other.
I, don't think that, being older,
meaning that I know better.
That's wrong.
That's, that's that, no, that's wrong.
Especially in, today context
where technology is so advanced.
But, no older gener, no any
single, older generation.
No better than ai, though.
No way.
Scott: So yeah, it's interesting the
challenge flipped from, to your point,
you had to seek out the knowledge to
now we're overwhelmed by knowledge.
Now it's actually hard to figure out
where to focus because we're bombarded
with new information all the time.
Yeah.
Now something that I've seen, I know
you're involved with is I think a
lot of people approach you and, for
mentorship for things like this, but
something I've heard from you in the
past is that while you definitely
don't have this push mentality, you
pull, people come to you, right?
But then additionally, I've heard
you say before that you learn from
the younger generation, right?
So is that part of the reason that
you've mentored people before?
'cause it goes both ways.
Chokdee: Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I, many years back I did my,
coaching, lesson and, that, opened
my eyes the way how I approach thing.
At that time, I did not know,
what coaching is all about.
I just wanted to be able to
communicate with my teenager kids.
So this is like 10, 10, 10 years ago,
Scott: right?
Chokdee: But once I graduated from,
that, coaching classes, I really enjoy
u using the coaching technique, not only
to help other people, but to help me get
into, other people as well to, compare,
communicate with other people as well.
One thing that I learned is
that people are coachable if
only they want to be coached.
If they don't want to be
coach, they're not coachable.
don don't waste their time on that.
Scott: Now, a bit of a change of gears.
I think that another topic that
we mentioned, AI and the world
is changing very quickly, right?
And I'm curious if you have
any thoughts on stability.
And the reason I say this is because
sometimes people think of a large
company as being large and stable.
I've got my good set
job, I'm good to go.
And then some people think smaller
businesses are less stable, right?
They're changing all the time.
They're dynamic.
They might be able to move
quickly, but they might also fail.
I'm just curious.
With AI coming in, I think we're
seeing sometimes both large and small
organizations needing to shift, right?
Sometimes needing to downsize,
sometimes growing, right?
They're going back and forth.
And I'm just curious how
you think of stability.
Like how is it if someone wants to keep
their job, if they want to excel and be
seen, do you have any recommendations
for them in times of uncertainty
about how they can have that not be
worried about their job all the time?
Chokdee: I'm a strong
believer of stability because,
people need to be, secure.
But at the same time, we all
know that change is constant.
We all know that as well.
How.
Do I apply the two?
concept?
I think change is constant.
we all know that.
Especially, in business
environment, you have to be
able to adjust, quickly, right?
Being nimble, and, in order
to, respond to the change
in the business environment.
But in order to make that change,
I believe you need to have a stable
team to the, to, deliver that.
I highly recommend to go back to
the first three, as I mentioned, the
strategy, the system, the structure.
I would this, I would design the
structure, especially for, SMB business
to have a very lean, structure.
My own, company.
I kept it as 10, 10 staff.
Only 10.
These are the core,
member of the company.
These are the, the people who
I will look after, but make
sure that their wellbeing,
look after and they will grow.
And we, if we success together.
So by having a lean structure,
I manage to keep it, stable.
For the change or, when thing
happen, then I look for possible
outsourcing or adding part-time, right?
But the quality team
has to be solid, stable.
Know each other well, trust each other,
can talk openly and freely to each
other regardless of under order, or.
People we did, I try to keep it
as flat as possible and everybody
can, speak up their mind and
make great recommendation,
for, the better of the company.
By the way, the slogan, the tag line
of is about a better living for all.
We are there to make a
better living for all.
And for that reason, every member of
my organization can speak up if they
believe is make a better living for all.
It has to be for all.
Not only for one person or for the
customer or for the shareholder.
It is including supplier,
business, partner, ev, Everyone.
So I want to make sure that everyone.
In the organization embrace the idea
of we are there to make a better living
for now in order to manage the change.
Once you have your core team, you
respond to the change strategy that
I use is, what can we outsource,
what can be, how can you hire a
part time, to do a certain task?
So this is how I balance between
stability within the organization
and, to manage the change environment.
Scott: That reminds me back
of, we were talking before
about it's this slow path.
Let's say that it's working
within an organization.
You were saying before, don't
just be looking at the salary.
Go slow and steady, right?
And the money comes later.
And it sounds like your approach between
the smaller business is similar in
the way that it's slow and steady.
Don't overinvest and
hire 50 new employees.
You have that core.
And then expand through, as you
said, outsourcing and part-time
employees to build that up.
But then to your point, now it's
stable for those core employees
that have proven themselves.
And it sounds like too, I think you,
you brought up the fact that since it's
smaller number of core employees, they
might need to wear a couple of hats.
Chokdee: Yep.
Scott: Right?
Chokdee: Yep.
Scott: But as if they have their
primary and secondary roles and everyone
knows what those roles are, then then
of course everything can be filled.
Right.
Chokdee: Let me share this for
those, who are small, company, small
enterprise, believe me, is only
you who know that you are small.
But when you go to talk to
other people, they don't.
No one has any idea whether you are
small or you are medium, or even
they, if they have a perception
that you're small because you show
them that you're small, even they
have a perception that you're small.
They don't know how small, tiny.
Or this small, or that small.
People don't know.
It's how you portray your position.
This is a time for younger generation.
Start your own.
If you have a good idea.
Don't be afraid.
Don't feel less confident
because you're small.
No one know how small you are.
they always think you are bigger than,
that you actually, believe me, but,
it's all about how you portray yourself.
Do you speak with confidence?
Do you know about your product?
Do you know what you are doing?
Have you thought, it through?
Have you thought it through?
You have a If you can provide the
answer that the customer want.
If you can provide the answer
that financial institution want.
If you can find the answer, of a
larger company that, looking for
solution, if you can provide that.
They don't care that you are
small or big, but you are,
you can solve their problem.
Scott: I'm curious if you have an
opinion on this, but to your point, they
don't know whether or not you're small.
I'm curious whether or not it's even
necessarily bad if you're small in that
I've seen some smaller organizations,
benefit by being small, right?
And I think one thing that I'm
curious if you have an opinion
on is some people I think try to
fake looking bigger than they are.
And I don't think that's what
you're talking about, right?
Because they don't
know that you're small.
But what I mean is some people say,
oh, let's make a big company website
that looks like a big building and
it looks like it has all these staff.
And I personally would
believe that's a disadvantage.
'cause you're trying to be
something that you aren't.
Versus if you're smaller, you
might be more nimble, you might
have more of a personal touch.
You might have, to your point,
you're not scared to say
that you have 10 employees.
If I'm ordering candy for a big event
or for a, whether it's large or small,
I don't dislike the fact that it's 10.
I don't wish that you
said you had 50 employees.
'cause to me, I care about the product.
Chokdee: It's about whether
you can deliver what you say.
Can you deliver or not.
If you can, then, regardless
of what size you are, but
you can deliver, right.
At the agree price as a agree quality
and as a agree quantity, you're good.
Forget about the size
of your organization.
It's about whether you will be deliver,
what you are, what you promise.
That's all matter from,
the customer point of view.
Or even financial institution.
If you have to ask for loan, whether
you can pay back according to what
has been agreed in the loan agreement.
That's all it matter.
'cause bank are there, to make
money as well from borrower, right?
So it's, again, it's about you
respect yourself, you respect
your other, if you say you can,
pay on time, you pay on time.
If you say you going to deliver
full on time, you just do that.
And that's how.
How, you grow, how you learn and grow.
And your developer, of course, if you
fail to deliver that there's no future.
There's no future, right?
Which come to the point that, yes, small
organization because you are nimble.
I got an order, in November.
7,000 pieces are
lollipop, and we deliver.
We put everyone together.
Because we are so small, we are nimble
and people, we have trust each other.
We have a good, team.
We do beyond what is
expected out of our role.
Because at the end of the day,
we are measured by the result.
KPI mean, nothing at the end
result have to be delivered.
The end result is 7,000 pieces
of lollipop have to deliver
on certain date, certain time.
We do what it.
Smaller organization, you are so
nimble that you are not limit to
only eight hour, nine hours working.
Do not limit only to office hour.
So if we have to stay, 10
o'clock, 11 o'clock, midnight,
one o'clock, so, be it.
And I'm sure, this will resonate
to many of our audience who
are, a small entrepreneur.
Scott: This actually brings me to a
bigger question more about you, is that
why put yourself through this, right?
Because there's a lot of
stress that goes along with
delivering like that, right?
and my, given your career, I'm assuming
you didn't need to start a business now.
So can you tell me the background behind
why you decided to start Candy Crush?
Why you, are still doing it today,
what you're trying to achieve with it?
Gimme that whole perspective because
again, it, doesn't seem easy.
Chokdee: Okay.
Happy to share.
Happy to share.
But, I can assure you
I was not, stressed.
I don't stress easily.
I hardly stress.
That's, one cool thing.
A Candy Crush is a
confectionary business.
We have two, retail shops, one at
the Siam Center, in Siam Square area,
and the other one at the Icon Siam.
So that, that are two retail shops.
And in addition, for retail, business,
we do, a B2B business as well.
We make candies, we make lollipop
for, a company that they want to have
some giveaway or souvenir or even
like a brand building exercise to put
their logo on, our candy products.
Scott: Yeah.
Chokdee: Now why, I adopt this business?
First and foremost, I think eating
candy is, is make people happy.
I think it's, it is, I'm, I
want to be in a happy business.
Of course, I cannot do it alone,
so I have to build a team.
And it just happened that my,
daughter, my niece and nephew,
they're about similar age, 22, 23, 24.
They just graduate from,
that university as well.
It's a good, for me, it's a
good opportunity, for this
younger generation, to learn,
how to do the business.
And I have to play a little, play
some tricks in order to allure
them to work in this, business
because, They were thinking of
going to work, larger company,
different, organization, et cetera.
So I use some trick.
I won't tell them.
I use something to make sure that they
come and work here and that they stay.
And not only, it's not only
about paying high salary, but
giving them responsibility.
I wish I, I think, younger people, are
craving for having a responsibility,
on, certain things on their own and make
sure that, they learn and grow as well.
They might not know, explicitly
that I'm there to teach, because I'm
not telling, but I'm more like a,
coach and help them learn and grow.
Learning the business, learning
how to, own, own the business.
Yeah.
How to do things, how organization
work, et cetera, et cetera.
So, it's about.
First is about bringing happiness,
more happiness to this world.
Second is about look after the
people, who already within the,
doing the business, make sure
that, they look after, they
learn and grow and they develop.
And with my daughter, niece and
nephew, coming into workforce,
they learn how to do the business
from the very, bottom part.
All these, I enjoy
doing it as no stress.
Scott: You just mentioning
they do it from the bottom up.
It's something too that
you've mentioned that you.
Are still involved at all these levels.
We've talked before about how, I think
in your house, how you are the fixer.
you fix the light air, you screw
in the new light bulb, you fix
some things around the house.
And it sounds like you're also
very involved in the business too.
I think you were saying you sometimes
make deliveries on your own as well.
Chokdee: Yeah, I, have done that.
I have done that.
Yeah.
Yeah, Sure, sure.
Scott: So do you have any, is
that part of your philosophy?
Is that just how you operate?
Is that how you operated in, some of
your other roles to where, you weren't
too good to do something lower than you?
Is that just how you operate?
Chokdee: No, I, like the way you say it.
Yes.
I'm a strong believer than no one is,
too good, for doing certain things.
I, definitely, I enjoy doing it.
I, like to have my, hand dirty,
hand dirty if, If need to be done.
I, it's just me.
I just enjoy, I just enjoy it.
The other day, I, have a chauffeur to
drive, at home, and to do the deliver,
candy from the factory to the shop.
It just normal that he can't do it.
365 days, there will be his pay
off his sick, leave his vacation.
I can choose either to pay someone
else to do it, a third party.
But at the same time, I think,
and then what I'm doing, I'm
sitting at home watching tv.
I think, might as well do, it myself.
Is a good exercise, a good bonding
with my people, my team that, yeah,
if he can do it, I can do it as well.
That's all the thing.
I think, it's a part of the leadership,
quantity that I have developed.
You lead by example.
You, get your hand dirty.
If needed.
yeah.
And in my career, I have, been
known, with my team that, when
dirty work, need to be done.
yeah, me as a leader, I will
be there with, with them.
I love the work, but, no one
is, too good, for their job.
Scott: Yes.
Good point.
Now, I'm, that also ties into
things like credentials, right?
Because I can't help but think.
Some people when they're going
through university or they get
some fancy degree, they might feel
a little too good to work, right?
Because they just want to
go through a certain path.
And I'm curious if you have an opinion
on that of number one, again, going
back to AI and some of these other
things with the knowledge and the
way knowledge is shared, changing,
How do you think of degrees now?
Is it still, would you still
recommend people getting degrees,
let's say in the coming years?
But then also if they do get degrees,
do you have any beliefs, on whether
or not they should be doing anything
else or if the degree is enough?
Chokdee: By all means.
I'm not saying that, the approach that
I, live my life is the correct way.
I'm no one to, say that it's just
a different way, different style.
There will be, people who, can afford
to pay somebody else to do the job.
That, of course, if you choose that
path, you are in your own right.
You can, pay, for a driver.
You pay for a pub plumber, you pay
for the electrician to do the job.
Everyone has a, right to,
to live that path as well.
But I have, I just chose to be
on a different path, whereas
whatever I, can do it myself.
I will try to do it.
I'm not success.
It doesn't mean that I'm
successful with every case.
Yeah.
There are cases that I have.
It beyond, my skill or beyond my hand,
or maybe I am short of, necessary
tool and things like that, then I
have to, to hire someone to do that.
Now, I think moving forward,
we'll talk about education.
In the western world, you give
importance to, a skill, worker, right?
Develop skill, whereas in Thailand, it
has always been, about, pushing younger
people to university, to get a degree.
And now, we see more and more
important, of, skilled workers.
I don't want to, to contradict
myself to the mainstream, but I
think it's worthwhile, to realize
that, we are, we have a big shortage
of skilled labor in, this market.
And it would be helpful if we have more,
people who study mechanic woodwork,
electric electricity electrician, and
plumbing will, et cetera, et cetera.
Hopefully one day, the earning
level, will turn the other side.
Actually it's already is.
I'm sure it's already is.
The earning, level is getting more
and more, now, on the technician side.
People start to make a, good
learning, already, and I'm sure,
moving forward, a blue collar
worker, will be, is an important
part, crucial part for the economy,
for economy to grow, and develop.
Scott: Yeah, it's very interesting
how it shifted too, from AI is
gonna take your jobs as the, of
the blue collar workers or whatever
to, you should learn to code.
And that it's flipped.
And now it's very interesting
that it's going the other way.
And it's to say, who's gonna
make sure something gets fixed?
Who's gonna help me build something?
Who's gonna, right?
And you really need that skilled labor.
Sometimes it's the,
skilled hard labor, right?
Chokdee: There's no point if you
graduate, become a civil engineer.
But you don't understand what the
carpenter or the plumber, or the
construct, of labor are doing.
Scott: Now, I want to pivot a little
bit to outlook now because I'll
admit that I've heard a bit more
negativity in the last year or two.
Understandably.
I think a lot of
companies are struggling.
Sometimes the economy,
there's a lot of uncertainty.
I'm talking more globally, right?
But still, even in Thailand.
there's just some tension of what,
what's next, what's gonna happen.
And I'm just curious, I know neither
of us know what's gonna happen, but
how do you think about the future?
How do you think about
the opportunities?
Do you think that there's good things
to come to the world, to Thailand?
Or how do you look in it all?
Chokdee: I'm a strong believer in,
creating my own, what, whatever it is.
There are, there will always things that
you can control and you cannot control.
I rather focus on what I can control
and make the most out of it, because
uncontrollable factor, whether there
will be another, worldwide war,
coming up, whether, gold price will
go up or come down, stock will go up
or come down, et cetera, et cetera.
Those are things that I, cannot control.
I would rather focus on what I can
and do some homework, make, make
plan, and, study, the subject well.
And then come up with the right
strategy, right system, because
structure and make sure whatever I
believe, is the future, that I want
to create and make sure that work
and focus on what I can control.
I can control what time I can.
I want to wake up.
What time I want to wake up,
what time I want to go to bed.
I can control that.
I can control how many hours, I
want to make it productive in a day.
I can control that.
And I will focus on what I can control.
And I think if you have done
your study thoroughly, you would
know what, what strategy you
want to apply to your business?
Is, is the business going
up and falling down?
I can control what I
bring into my business.
I can, I'm starting to
change the packaging.
I'm starting to change, what I offer
to the, to the need of customer.
The form, the size, the shape,
the packaging that I can control.
So I'm focused on that one.
There will be something that I cannot
control economies before our, but
I, control my, I have the strategy,
I have the system and have the
structure, which is tied and linked.
I believe this is, what I can
control and role focus on it.
Scott: Yeah.
It sounds like we're all playing a game.
We can't control the game
that we're playing, but we
can control how we play it.
Chokdee: Yes.
Scott: Right Now, you've been
very generous with your time Khun
Chokdee and I'm just curious,
are there any topics that.
You wish we had discussed,
which we haven't.
Chokdee: Oh, I can talk, all days,
but, I appreciate, I appreciate, the
opportunity, to be with you today,
to share my thought to the audience.
Really appreciate that.
I just wish that social status,
different, places, different
environment that we work with, at the
end of the day, we have to coexist.
I think Thailand, we can prosper
together or even in the world level,
we can, we there should theres
enough room for all of us, right?
And yeah, let's, try to
work it out and, coexist.
Scott: that's a good way to end it.
I just do want to know though, Is there
any final recommendation you'd give to
those, individuals that are maybe feel
like they're alone, maybe feel like
they they're struggling in some way.
What should they do?
Chokdee: Yeah.
I would encourage, everyone, when
you need help, just reach out.
Help is all around.
And, I think you under people
easily underestimate the number
of help that are available.
But they are, believe me, they
are, help or, available, right?
And, for example, at AustCham, which
I I, part of it, now is, we, are here
to help and to promote and to support,
the, members, activity of the members,
next generation, et cetera, et cetera.
Help all or, don't, hesitate to
reach out and you never know.
You get, some, a good idea, good
advice through connecting to
people, learning from each other.
And together, we, we can create
a synergy and then, one plus
one will become a 3, 4, 5.
Yeah.
Don't hesitate to reach out anytime.
Scott: Excellent.
I really appreciate that.
And I, I guess the last thing that
I just wanna know from you is for
individuals that wanna know more
about, Candy Crush, where can they go?
Where can they learn more?
Chokdee: You're, very kind.
Thank you.
Is, candycrushthailand.com.
Simple as that.
And, if, anyone like to reach out,
to me personally, happy to, please
feel free to do I'm available on
LinkedIn, so just, my name, my last
name, and, you can find me on link.
Scott: And you're also very approachable
at the Australian Thai Chamber events.
I know.
And I'm sure you go to a lot
of other events as well, but
you're super approachable, so
Chokdee: Thank you.
Thank you.
I appreciate, your kind words.
But again, I don't want to impose, in
any way, but, if people, would like,
to share some thoughts or share some
idea, happy to, share my experience.
Scott: Yeah.
You've been incredibly generous
sharing your experience here, so
thank you so much for your time
Khun Chokdee I really appreciate it.
Chokdee: Pleasure is all mine.
Thank you, Scott.