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Welcome to I’m Not Even Supposed to Be Here Today, a conversational, culture-savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of a world that has gone sideways. We’re here to unpack the issues that boggle our minds, all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy, and a little humility.
Chris Bevolo (00:00)
So that was his way of saying like, fight the power that be.
Welcome everybody to episode eight of I'm not even supposed to be here today. Conversational cultural savvy podcasts for folks trying to make sense of a world that has gone sideways, maybe a little shitty or we're gonna talk about that today. We're here to unpack the issues that bog our minds all rooted in little history, little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy and a little humility. I am your co-host Chris Bevelo.
owner of Bearing 287, an organization fighting the good fight to make the world a better place for all, and the sponsor of our show. I'm joined as always by my co-host, Des, who's a social impact comm strategist by day and who spends her nights remixing history to make sense of the present. Hello, Des.
Desiree Ep8 (00:59)
Hello, Christopher. I'm channeling my inner, what is it, Robert Frost, and I'm looking for the road.
less scammy to choose from.
Chris Bevolo (01:11)
the road less shitty.
Desiree Ep8 (01:13)
Less shitty, less scammy, like everything's a scam. Everything's a simulation.
Chris Bevolo (01:17)
Gross. Yeah, everything's
covered. It's got this slime on it. It's just a just a little layer of slime on it. We're going to talk about, we're going get into all of that. That's our today show. Today's show is going to be about all of those things. Before we go there, we have to check in on two things. First, boycotts. We made it, we asked everybody to make a commitment. Des, did you fulfill your commitment?
which was remind us what your commitment was and did you do it?
Desiree Ep8 (01:50)
My commitment was getting off Spotify, getting over to Koba's QoBuz. Yes, I did. I was able to get my data from Spotify. got the transfer and then I'm over there. I'm also like low key kind of looking at Apple Music too because Koba doesn't have all the songs, but because I mean, if I already have my like iPhone, I might as well and my MacBook, might as well. But anyways, yes, I have.
At least don't wanna mine, what about you?
Chris Bevolo (02:21)
Yes, my commitment was Amazon Prime. I canceled it. Shockingly, I still have like 273 days left on it. So it's not really going to have an immediate effect. However, I'm going to stop ordering through Amazon and I have stopped that. I also am stopping Audible and Kindle purchases and I'm excited because I got my first book to read on Apple Books. I mean, I've had, I have books on there from way back when, but so I've actually moved off of Kindle.
though I've referenced it a couple times because again I have books on there so that's exciting the other thing I'll just add real quick is my wife and I each got the brick you heard of the brick
Desiree Ep8 (03:04)
that's like a basically you can lock down your phone or something. Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (03:08)
Yes. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. So I have settings for all of my socials for TikTok on Apple, which anybody with an iPhone could do this. And I'm sure with other phones too, where you can say like, okay, only get an hour on this and that or whatever. The problem with it is all you have to do is say, skip for five minutes or skip for the rest of the day. It's like, it comes up and it says, sorry, you can't go in. You want to skip for the rest of day? You're like, sure.
done. So it has not really had much of an impact on this. I started the brick on Sunday and I am bricking all doom scrolling and all TikTok from nine to five. And it's amazing. Like it's working. It's working in the sense that already it's only Monday and I feel less needy to go look at my phone. So I don't want to say it's a miracle cure, but it does force you. The trick is you can't override it without your little brick.
Desiree Ep8 (03:58)
Wow.
Chris Bevolo (04:07)
So if you're on the couch and you're like TikTok and it's like, sorry, you've bricked this phone. You have to go get the brick from wherever you have it stored, which you could do, but means you have to get off your butt. So anyway, that's another way that that came out of our boycott conversation where I felt like I'm just completely tied to all of these technologies and platforms and I need to break that.
Desiree Ep8 (04:22)
Snap.
Thank you, influenced me. I need to go get a brick. I need to get off this solitaire. I need to get off the scrolling. For me, it's like games, just so like, numb my mind because I'm thinking about all the things, but yeah. All right. Let me go get a brick.
Chris Bevolo (04:52)
Yes, and I have spent more time on games to be fair. But games at least are not making me angry. Like the rest of the stuff we're going to talk about today. One more thing we have to talk about, Des. I feel like we're going to look back and this is going to be the period of time where we're like, holy shit. Remember back when all this happened with AI?
because so much has happened in last two weeks and if you really go back to the beginning of the year, that it's pretty scary. I'm just gonna say it's scary. It's scary the speed by which this technology has advanced and is boggling even the minds of the know, the smartest people on AI, the tech bros, I mean, and they're speaking out.
People are leaving their jobs. I think this is true. The head of safety at Claude. So Claude is behind a lot of it because it made so many advances in its last release. Quit. I could get this wrong because I'm going be confusing it with somebody else. But quit to just go write poetry because they're like, I'm probably, that's probably like a paraphrasing of stories. But there has.
Desiree Ep8 (06:17)
What has happened?
give at least an example.
Chris Bevolo (06:19)
So you got a lot of reading.
You got a lot of reading to do. So first of all, over the holidays, and I listened to the marketing AI or the AI, what's it called? What's Paul Raitzer's podcast? That's embarrassing. I don't remember the name of it. But it's a podcast where he covers, ostensibly talks about marketing, but they hardly talk about marketing more. It's just about AI. And he talked about how over the holiday, all of these people
who are in the AI world. So these are leaders of AI companies, engineers, just the smartest of smart people. They were all like, is Claude AGI? Have we reached AGI already? Because it was doing things that they'd never seen before. Dario Amade, who is the CEO of Anthropic, dropped a long ass
letter called the adolescence of technology. Confronting and overcoming the risks of powerful AI yikes. Read that about all the risks that are right there. In front of us the Atlantic. This is all like these last ones are all within the last couple weeks. The Atlantic had a story. America isn't ready for what AI will do to jobs. And then you have Matt Schumer.
Desiree Ep8 (07:34)
Wow.
Chris Bevolo (07:43)
This is where it really blew up because all of that was kind of circulating among the people that pay attention to AI. Matt Schumer, who is a Silicon Valley VC, posted this article called Something Big Is Happening. And it was essentially a letter to his family. And the way he sets it up is like, my family always ask me about AI and I don't really go into it because I don't want to worry them. He's like, but I can't hold it back anymore. People need to know.
And they went viral. Millions and millions and millions of people shared this thing and read it. He's been on national news. And he's basically like, yeah, it's here. It's here. And the people that know see what it's doing. Most people don't have access to that. But he gives all kinds of examples. And I'm just going to give one example of my own. So you're reading all this stuff. And a lot of it, again, is around clog.
Claude introduced this new thing called Claude Code, which allows you to basically just say like, I want to create a video game that has little Martians that shoot each other up the nose with arrows, and then it'll create a video game for you. You don't have to know code at all. So you see these stories and these videos on TikTok, you're like, well, how is this really possible? So I went into Claude on Thursday and I was doing other work and I'm like, look, create a web app.
that will measure the reputational risk of the top 300 health systems in the country. These are the kind of things I want you to look for. The prompt was like maybe 100 words. And as it was building, it asked me some questions, but I would say in less than an hour, I had a fully built website that ranked all 300 health systems based on reputational risk around like eight different factors.
And it used a weather analogy. So it's called Storm Watch. And some of them are hurricane warnings. Some of them are like partly cloudy. Some of them are sunny. The thing is gorgeous. Like it built the whole thing in an hour. The whole thing. And it was just done. I'm like, this would have taken months. You would have had to bring in like a UX designer. You would have had to, I mean, I didn't go through and test it. So you would still need to do some work to verify.
Desiree Ep8 (09:48)
.
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (10:04)
But it's there. And I'm like, my gosh. my gosh. So you really do need to read these things. If you haven't read them, my gosh. Read them, don't read them at night before you go to bed.
Desiree Ep8 (10:16)
Yeah.
Yeah, I've been kind of off since I've gotten out of like marketing life. I've been kind of off of AI talk basically. So, uh, all right. I will read and catch back up to speed, but my, my God. All right. Oof. Help.
Chris Bevolo (10:35)
I
they're just they're saying things like white collar jobs will disappear. You know, Elon Musk came out and said you forget about saving retirement, you won't need it. You won't need money for retirement. Yeah, it's all like something like that. You just go, okay, putting that aside. But then you read what's happening. You're like, what is going to happen when all these people don't have jobs? They don't need jobs anymore. They can't find jobs anymore.
Desiree Ep8 (11:05)
where's the income coming from? All right, okay, so I'll read, get up to speed, and maybe we can do an episode, a full deep dive on this.
Chris Bevolo (11:14)
Yes. Okay. So that might make the world shittier in all kinds of ways. We don't know. It could also make the world amazing. Maybe it cures cancer. It's all that. But let's talk about how the world is shittier now, Des. This was your subject. It feels like there's a little fire brewing over there that you want to pour some gas on. Let's go. Let's do it.
Desiree Ep8 (11:29)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Shouldn't you pour the gas and then light it on fire? anyways, yeah, so this came out of, of course, I haven't been paying attention to AI because I've been, I guess, paying more attention to this and that essentially it kind of started with more Perfect Union. This is a page Instagram account I've been following for quite a while now and they do these incredible
in depth investigative reports on various things. And what I've been noticing is that they've really been going in on essentially like Instacart as an example. And it's talking about this algorithmic driven pricing and it just blew my mind. that essentially
They can, cause you hear about these different things, whether it's, you know, when you're searching for flights and like, well, now you have to get off this bribe browser because they know your history. So then they're going to check out the, like all these different tricks. But anyways, it was the idea of within Instacart that depending on who you are, your phone, your history, what have you, they know, they know everything about you because it's all on the internet. Uh, you were getting different prices than your neighbor.
Chris Bevolo (12:37)
Yeah.
Desiree Ep8 (12:51)
The other piece is also, I actually first started hearing about this a couple of years ago with the Uber and Lyft drivers and that different drivers are getting different incomes. And I can't remember what report this was, but they kind of brought all of these different drivers in and they all had them open their app to look at like, okay, you're picking up this person, whatever. it was this all like, depending on who you are, you've got different pricing. But it just got me thinking about my God, everything is a scam.
whether it's, you go to buy a ticket like, cause Ticketmaster, I think we all got our little like 25 cent dividend check from that lawsuit of all of the fees that Ticketmaster charges us. Cause you're like, oh, like $75 for this show. And then when you go to check out it's, oh, that's $145. Like, I'm sorry, what? All these fees for what?
And then Ronan Farrow, of course, I think he's like our big like chief investigative journalist here. He's quite incredible, incredible. But anyways, he just released a video that was kind of going through all of the different versions of this. And it starts out, he's talking about the invention of the paper price tag, because before there was price tags, kind of, everything was a hackle, right?
And depending on who you were, like you might've been paying way more than your neighbor who knew how to haggle. So you get these paper price tags and it lets you know that every you're paying the same exact price as everyone else. Well, what happens when that price tag becomes digital and that I, this kind of blew my mind. I've seen these, but I didn't realize how digital they were. Like if you go to the grocery store and I think he specifically mentioned Kroger, but those little, they, they almost look like the type of screen that your Kindle has.
but that those can change. I thought maybe they were changing because like, this is going on sale, but they can also change by you just like walking up to this item or like you're in the near vicinity. Like, are you, are you kidding me? So anyways, it's just like all of these different ways and I'm sure you have some too, but like, it just feels like everything is finding some kind of way to squeeze as much money out of us as possible without our own.
like of course without our consent, but there's just so many different ways that they're able to do that. you noticing this? Are you seeing different like scams or I guess you call that the intensification? what are you seeing?
Chris Bevolo (15:21)
Yeah, and stratification is an actual thing by Cory Doctorow. We can get into that later. Two things that come to mind immediately. One is Target got busted for this. Less personalized, more, if you looked at the Target app for a price in the parking lot, it would give you a different price than when you went in.
And so they were, they had to pay a fine, I believe they were busted. I don't know it was by the, I don't have the story in front of me, if it was federal or state in Minnesota, but the idea was they were basically like, oh cool, this thing's only $30, like trying to compete online. And then he went inside and it was $50 when they got you, when you're in the store. So that's one thing. And Delta announced, I don't remember when this was, at the end of last year.
that they're gonna use this whole algorithmic slash personalized pricing based on your, I mean, who knows what it's based on, right? We know the data that's available out there. They know everything about you. For me, obviously, they know that I spent a shit ton of money on flights or have in the past for business. So they're gonna charge me the most they can possibly charge me.
we're planning a trip. It's interesting. We're planning a trip with another family and we looked at the tickets and this is classic, right? You look at the tickets for a specific place and specific date and you come back a week later and you look and they're jacked up and you're like, oh, well they just planted a cookie, right? Their cookie said, they're looking for this. So they're going to raise the prices. And so I asked the older son who's more digital savvy than
the parents, the dad in this case, say, Kate, this is the, I took a screenshot. This is what I'm getting for these tickets. And he's like, I'm getting the exact same thing. And so I'm like, okay, well, there's no way they're this, this 20 something kid has the same profiles I do from Delta, but he had been looking at pricing on tickets.
We're gonna keep doing that. We're gonna look at prices without logging in, which even then may not be enough. Because after all, they probably have a cookie on my browser and they know it's me whether I log in or not. So those are just two recent examples that come to mind. But this also brings into things like shrinkflation. We'll talk about insinuation in a little bit. Subscriptions, how subscriptions just feel
gross and the growth of subscriptions. The one that's really caught my attention, Des, are subscriptions that car makers are now adding. So you go buy a new car and you have to subscribe to be able to get like updated maps on the GPS or whatever. some, like there was one where I think the story said, like a new BMW model, you have to buy a subscription to get the heated seats that you already paid for. I mean,
Desiree Ep8 (18:23)
What?
So.
Chris Bevolo (18:28)
That's no, no, no to all that.
Desiree Ep8 (18:33)
So essentially it can get to a point where like they could brick your car where like if you haven't kept up with your subscription or you're like, I don't want that anymore. They're like, well, okay. You're not getting into your car. You're not getting your heat or you're not, my God. I mean, so that's a part of it too. Like the there's a subscription base, like, doesn't it feel like we don't own anything anymore? You know, like it's start, have you ever leased cars?
Chris Bevolo (18:58)
Yeah. In my past, yeah.
Desiree Ep8 (18:59)
Yeah. Are you a,
but today, you a, I buy my car or are still lease your car?
Chris Bevolo (19:06)
No, now I buy my car. I bought my car early when they were used and terrible and I wanted better cars and I couldn't afford them. So I leased them. And then leasing is such a bad financial decision that ended up going back to buying cars. And that's, know, you have to have money to buy a car. So I'm fortunate that I was able to buy cars. But yeah, leasing is just, it's no good.
Desiree Ep8 (19:32)
It's no good. mean, the first car I ever purchased or got myself, it was a lease because I was 22. had no credit to my history because luckily I did not get a credit card in college and ruined my life. So anyways, I had to get a lease way over what I could actually pay, but I was just like dead set on getting that Jeep Wrangler. And then after that, I was like, okay, I'm buying this car. I was like on the, only buy three years old,
30,000 miles, like that's me right there. That's my sweet spot. And then of course, when it comes to renting versus buying your home, there's a conversation around not being able to really afford to purchase a house anymore. like rent is going up or companies who are buying up all of the homes as rentals for others, just to kind of like line their own pockets. And so it got me thinking, of course, like,
Then there's the subscriptions you had mentioned. It's like, wow, where we used to have all of our CDs, you know, I haven't bought a CD in like 20 years. Everything is based off a subscription like me getting the hell off of Spotify. And it just got me wondering and thinking about like, do we even own anything anymore? We have to essentially lease everything. We have to subscribe to get it. For me, it started. This was when I was with PBS. I was editing.
I was leading my team and that's when Adobe Creative Cloud, went from just like, I'm buying this box, a Premiere Pro to install on our computers. We'll keep it for like five years to then like the annual fee. And we were like, we're not doing that, yada, yada, yada. For me, that was kind of that beginning of like, what is going on? And now we are sitting here in like subscription land and everything that we get have.
Chris Bevolo (21:10)
Desiree Ep8 (21:26)
is through that and if we don't pay it, we don't get it. So just like the BMW, if we're not paying for that heat in the car, I know it's just the seat, but like what else are they gonna try to commodify to just make another dime off
you because you're dependent and that's just, we're gonna take it. Cause that's just like how the world goes, but like, how do we, how do we fight this?
Chris Bevolo (21:47)
I mean, there's something about that though, that's just like, if I were in the market for that kind of car, I would literally just tell the BMW dealer to go bleep himself. Because I'm spending that much money for a BMW and you're going to nickel and dime me as you just said, for heated seats. Like get the F out of here.
I would just downgrade my car at that point because that would infuriate me. There's so much of this though, Des, that we don't even think about, right? So when we were talking about boycotts, this really is we were, as I was thinking about this show and researching it, I'm like, well, I'm so addicted to these things and or I'm locked into them. I remember this was like five or six years ago when I got off of Twitter, I got off of Facebook and I'm like, I need to get out of Apple.
So I was like you, I owned all of my CDs, then I paid for my Apple Music, 99 cents a song. But that was mine, or I thought it was mine, it probably never was, but I thought it was mine. And then they made it so difficult. I tried to like back up all my songs and a lot of the songs that I bought were no longer available, which was my first clue, like, what's up with that? They're like, well, you can replace them with these songs from Apple Music, but.
Desiree Ep8 (22:58)
What?
Chris Bevolo (23:03)
And I'm like, what? Like, I bought these. Why are they not available anymore? And there's licensing and all this nonsense. And I think we talked last week maybe about how Amazon, sometimes people's Amazon books go away. So to me, right, I own all of these books on Amazon, but do I really own them? I own all of this music on Apple, but I don't think I really own any of it anymore. All of my pictures. Good luck trying to get all your pictures.
often like just there your pictures remember all that all the controversy about a camera if it was Facebook or I think grandma's still say like I do not give Facebook permission to own my photos or whatever that was that was like a meme forever but a lot of that is legitimate and I'll tell you where it gives me the most pain is video games so I always have believed it
Desiree Ep8 (23:33)
You
Chris Bevolo (24:01)
As long as I have my PS5 and electricity, I'm good until I die. I don't need the internet. Like if the world ends and I, as long as I have electricity, I will be able to play video games, right? But it has moved so much to one, you download, I have downloaded most of my games now. And two, you can't even play the games without internet connection. So,
I don't think most of my library that I've paid for, I would have access to if they decided to shut down. If Sony PlayStation went out of business, if I stopped, you have to, by the way, you buy a PS5 or whatever, 500 or 600 bucks, you buy the game for $70, you need to subscribe for 60 or $75, I can't remember what, annually on PlayStation Plus to actually play with other people. And then if you're playing Call of Duty, there's like,
Desiree Ep8 (24:54)
What?
Chris Bevolo (25:00)
game passes and all this. It's just like in-game purchasing. is, is insidious. Yeah.
Desiree Ep8 (25:01)
I
haven't played a video game since PS2. the fact that everything is online-based now and that you can't just take out a disc and just play it over and over.
Chris Bevolo (25:21)
You can try. I haven't tried
in years, but I bet you could try, but it would limit what you could do. Guaranteed, it would limit what you could do. With that cake.
Desiree Ep8 (25:32)
So yeah, I mean, there's just so many different. So when I was thinking about the, I guess the history of this and that I'm like, what is the history of this? And then in a way, not that I feel personally responsible for this, but like as a former marketer, I think about all the things that you constantly to my partner, partner, she was like, this thing. I'm like, it's just another example. I'm like, yeah, that's just marketing.
or that's just branding or that's essentially just propaganda. everything is a, but so marketing became so it came, it became less psychology and like getting into the emotions of the consumer. And it became more about the analytics and which again, I think you said something about this on the last episode. It's about, it's not about what people actually say, the say, do gap. People say they're going to do this, but like what they actually do. But all of this stuff is
Chris Bevolo (26:26)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Desiree Ep8 (26:28)
is based off of our actual actions and that everything is just like optimized and analyzed to death. And that's kind of in a way how we've gotten to this version of like being scammed. Cause like scamming of course, there's people that are always trying to get your money. you know, whether it's just people calling older folks and you know, scamming them in that way. But in this way, it's like, we're getting scammed by the things that we are addicted to. And like, yeah, we're just gonna.
give in until I guess we just don't and we just go back to our Super Nintendo's and call it a day. But another version like is that shrink flation of I had noticed this in like a bag of Lay's back in the day back when I used to eat potato chips. I don't eat potato chips anymore allegedly. And I remember like why is this bag like it's all puffed up. like looks full but then you hold it. like I bet there's like three.
Chris Bevolo (27:21)
Mm-hmm.
Desiree Ep8 (27:24)
chips in here. But everything is essentially getting smaller in some form. Everything is costing more. They're finding every way to like nickel and dime you. You mentioned your Delta. I'm we're a Southwest household and with the new, you can now pick your seating, which you all have wanted. I'm like, we never asked for that. That's why we're not on Delta. We're not on American.
but you keep telling us this is what we asked for. And then you get there and you try to book your flight and I see, you wanna be able to charge more for the upfront seats, for the premium seats. You push the ones in economy back so that they're, you know, kind of crammed in there. And then you up the ante on the pricing for the other so that you can make more money. All of this is all about making more money. To what end?
Like we talked about in a other episode around every thing is owned by like five people from tech to media to what have you to what end and like what you had mentioned about AI and like what it's going to do to jobs. are we even going to have like, any who? Yeah, that's just what I've been thinking about. So yes, that's what's been brewing. That's what's been burning that I am just like, how do I set fire to this and let it burn off and just like go back to live in?
Chris Bevolo (28:25)
.
Desiree Ep8 (28:49)
in a cabin in writing, reading poetry.
Chris Bevolo (28:54)
I mean, I don't know that it's going to end because the reason companies do a lot of this is because they hit limits to growth, which is inevitable. I think about appliances as turning into pieces of shit. Like kitchen, what the hell happened to kitchen appliances? We talk around our cul-de-sac.
because we held on to our washer and dryer, which by the time I got rid of them, they were like 15 years old because they worked. And everybody around us said like, don't buy new washers and dryers, they just, they don't work. We're on our third dishwasher in 14 years. We're on countless coffee makers, countless coffee makers. I can't even tell you how many coffee makers. And some of this is forced obsolescence where they make stuff worse.
Desiree Ep8 (29:20)
Smart.
Chris Bevolo (29:44)
So it breaks down, you have to buy it, but then they've got to figure out other ways to make money. And I think a classic example of this, this is a battle that I've lost at my house and deservedly so. I'll give a little story there of how my little psychology experiment didn't work. Refrigerators and water filters. So you got to replace your water filter every whatever. And I'm like, since when do I have to do this? This is just a scam to keep me spending. Like it's gonna cost me a few hundred bucks a year.
to replace this, because you get the little thing on your refrigerator says, replace the water filter. I'm like, why do I need to do that? Right? Well, my house of ladies, my wife and three kids would always let me know, you got to change the filter. The water tastes terrible. I'm like, it's just a scam. just trying to get us and I gotta change it. So one time does I'm just going to admit this publicly. I reset the button.
but I did not change the water filter. And I said, hey, I changed the water filter, it's all good. And they're like, oh, thank God, it's so much better. I'm like, ah, I got you. It's just no difference. See, there's no difference. That did not go over well. Did not go over well. And ever since then, I've had to change the water filter. But that's an example of these companies hit a plateau. There's only so many households in the United States that need a new refrigerator. How do you grow?
You can take market share, but I mean, that's a commodity from, know, like at what point are there real distinction between refrigerators and how do you continue to have organic growth refrigerators, which you theoretically should need once every 20 years? Well, you make them shittier. You make people think they have to replace the water filter. I'm sure the new tech, the new like connected ones probably have subscriptions. I don't have one of those.
Desiree Ep8 (31:27)
my God.
Chris Bevolo (31:42)
But I'm sure that's coming. Keep an inventory of your food and keep this, you know, food count subscription for $50 a year. Connects to your target app so you can just automatically order new food. I don't know. It probably already exists. I just don't have
Desiree Ep8 (31:45)
my God.
It is all capitalism. Like how, how do we get off this roller coaster of capitalism? Cause everything goes back to that. It's yeah, we make things not as great kind of, I remember first getting into healthcare and that notion of, and again, we were in healthcare marketing. This is not necessarily healthcare delivery, but it actually had more to do with,
pharma and that idea of that, you know, there's no money in a cure. Right. And so, and so we are, we have this prescription drug to give you that'll take the symptoms away, but it doesn't necessarily, you know, cure you of your situation of your ailment. And so that then leads us then to go do our own research and figure out at least some sort of.
Chris Bevolo (32:34)
Desiree Ep8 (32:55)
way to like for me it was more of a diet change the way I eat like how foods affect me and my I don't have those symptoms anymore you told me I was gonna take this pill every single day for the rest of my life but anyways again all the things it just ties back to this idea of how do we make more money and then to to what end but you grow
Chris Bevolo (33:17)
Okay, so
I have an optimistic thought. Do you want an optimistic thought? I feel like we may have reached peak shittification. And that's because one thing we never really talk about much, you and I don't talk about it, I don't read about it much. I'm put a lot of this on Donald Trump.
Desiree Ep8 (33:21)
Okay, blessings. Please, God.
Chris Bevolo (33:43)
We have not talked about the cultural impact of Donald Trump. And when you think about who Donald Trump is as a human, and you think about how he behaves, and you think about the fact that he's the president of the United States and has been elected twice by this country, his impact is undeniable. And it's undeniable in a lot of ways, right? You could, he's a caustic, horrible human, and he makes up,
know, little Marco Rubio, he's just, he's like a fourth grader. He's like a bully on the playground. And now that's just everywhere. That's just, people just are assholes. We talked about the lack of empathy in a latest episode. that, so I'm not saying that's because of Trump, but I'm saying like, he has accelerated to its peak form. I was just, we were talking right before this, I was reading about looks maxing, which was new to you and new to me.
Desiree Ep8 (34:25)
Hmm.
Chris Bevolo (34:42)
which is pure narcissism. Hello, narcissism
on the rise. I wonder why that could be. And now we're talking about the shittiness of products. So we could definitely talk about what you were just saying about, you know, making money. who, this guy is making billions of dollars off of the office of the presidency. And we're just all like, well, whatever, you know, I guess he can make money off of the presidency and.
sell our foreign policy to the highest bidder. But then think about shittiness. Who is the poster child for shitty products?
Honestly, that guy, you can go all the way back to Trump Stakes or all the way forward to his Trump phone. You remember the Trump phone? Do you remember that? It's not even a year old. It's gold. Yes, it was, I think it was June of 25. The Trump phone, $500. You could put down a $100 deposit to get one. And they're selling $49.99.
Desiree Ep8 (35:22)
That guy.
I don't. I remember like everything being gold. it was recent.
Chris Bevolo (35:51)
like $49.95, $49 a month, like for the service. Okay? Still no Trump phone. Ain't got no Trump phone. But people are paying. People are paying for it. And I'm sure it's coming. I'm sure it's coming. The other thing that's awesome about that was of course originally it was going to be, we need to make phones in America. So we're going to make this an American made phone for $500.
Desiree Ep8 (36:02)
So we're those, they're paying a subscription for things that doesn't exist.
Chris Bevolo (36:21)
And then the research and the news reports are read so they found out you can't make a phone in the United States for $500. So then it became American designed and now it's just called proudly American. So they've walked completely back from this thing being made in America. So I started this with an optimism, right? I feel like
we're peaking in this horribleness. We're either peaking in this horribleness or we're doomed. So I'm gonna go with the optimistic thing. We're peaking in horribleness in all the ways I just said, and there's many, many more. And it's gonna all come crashing down. And people are gonna become fed up with these companies that are screwing them left and right. They're gonna be fed up with people that live with fraud and live by fraud. And they're gonna be fed up with.
You know, all of these things we're talking about, I hope, at least to a degree does, and maybe you'll see companies succeed based on authenticity and doing what's right for the customers and not just, it's all shareholder value. It's all shareholder value, right? If it's all about shareholder value, then you have to keep growing. You can't stop growing. Well, that's where you start getting into all this late stage bullshit that we're dealing with now, it feels like. So I'm hoping that
We rebel as a consumer society. We rebel against all those things. So maybe that's Pollyanna ish, but you got to have hope.
Desiree Ep8 (37:58)
You gotta have hope and thank you for being the Forrest Gump to my Jenny. I was out here on the ledge about to jump. know, Grace Slick is screaming in the background. I'm about to jump off from the Watergate Hotel or whatever building she was at in that movie. But so, OK, thank you, because I actually just watched
Cause I'm, have this, well, you know, I have this theory about the seventies and like what the hell happened. But I have been watching, you know, that CNN series, that docu-series where they would do like the sixties, the seventies, eighties, nineties and what have you. Do you remember that? Okay.
Chris Bevolo (38:38)
No. But
I believe you that it existed.
Desiree Ep8 (38:42)
It existed. It's now on HBO Max. It's not sponsored by HBO. Anywho, I was watching the 60s and apparently I didn't realize how major of a year 1968 was. In fact, there was a whole documentary about 1968. All I know about is 1969's, Stonewall, Woodstock and all this kind of stuff. I think like every pop star overdosed that year. Like why have you?
But in 1968, that was this huge culmination. It was the same year that MLK was assassinated, RFK senior was assassinated, Nixon was elected and had his things. We were getting out of Vietnam and all of these things. And like, I'm watching this documentary and essentially this time period. And especially that year, that was their version of like what we're experiencing today. Or essentially what we're experiencing today was that.
Chris Bevolo (39:16)
yeah.
Desiree Ep8 (39:40)
And it just to them, things felt like we're in just total civil, just insanity here because you have everything kind of fighting at the same time where you have gender and sexuality and access and a war that we should not have been in. Like all of these things are happening at once. And it just reminds me, I'm like, okay, just like every couple of decades, they got through that.
Chris Bevolo (39:56)
A war.
Desiree Ep8 (40:10)
There were casualties, things occurred, very terrible things occurred, but they were able to rise from the rubble. And that is what kind of gives me hope. And I think that's why I so often lean on history because it just, I'm like, okay, they didn't die. They didn't, you know, expire because of this thing. Some people did, of course, but overall society didn't. And so what is going to be the next? Another little piece of upliftment, I...
Was this sci-fi? I don't know. Maybe, probably. There is a film, an animated film called Arco that just came to theaters. I think it's nominated for an Oscar. I think it's on the list of like best animated feature length. It was beautiful. my God. So anyways, it's set in, it's actually set in two periods. This kid who is in, I don't know what year he's in.
Chris Bevolo (40:52)
Yeah.
Desiree Ep8 (41:07)
but he travels back to 2075. And when he gets there, it's essentially, I don't wanna like ruin it, but it's like, you're dealing with, oh, we're dealing with climate change, the effects of climate change. And we're dealing with robots in the household, you know, not unlike the Jetsons. But what gave me hope, but also kind of like,
because science fiction, which I know you tell me is like this incredible thing. There's pieces of it that can get me there, that interests. But what was so interesting was to see the difference in, you know, he went back to his present from the past, which was 2075, and there was no robot. had to, they were, everything kind of looked similar-ish to what we have today, but there are some key differences where.
You can kind of tell that like climate change took over and they had to like figure something else out for people to inhabit. But anyways, it just continues to remind me we will find a way to continue to exist until I guess we don't and like the planet. But anyways, yes, we have to keep hope and optimism. And part of the reason why we've been doing this is to, yes, bring light to the things that we're seeing that maybe you have been feeling yourself as a listener, viewer, what have you.
But then to also just kind of shed light on that, we will get through this just like we have always. And yeah, so thank you for your, your, high in the sky view of all this.
Chris Bevolo (42:42)
Well, I mean, you think you got to have that otherwise like What's the point of going on? He hopefully you've got to find it I mean, obviously we're gonna be fine with climate change says I'm not sure I worried I don't know if you noticed but last week and we rolled back all of our protections because co2 really isn't a threat at all So it's gonna be fine So you got that we got that going for us, which is nice. But yeah, I think
Desiree Ep8 (43:00)
I'm fine.
Chris Bevolo (43:05)
What's interesting about this too is it's weird that you brought this up, that you have this feeling. And friend of the pod, Chris Boyer, because I think the digital aspect of this is what's it's correlated to. Like we'll put Trump up there as one of the, know, faces on the Mount Rushmore of shitification. The digital landscape is one of the other faces on that Mount Rushmore. And Chris Boyer is a good friend of mine and a friend of the
had read the book and shitification, which sounds like a great book. I need to go find it and read it. But it's about the idea that the business model is you provide something super compelling to the audience and they love it. And then you shift to provide something for the people that can fund that. So advertisers, sponsors, whoever.
Desiree Ep8 (43:37)
Mm.
Chris Bevolo (44:03)
And then you shift to screw everybody but yourself and you just take the money. And he, he, I asked him about the book. I'm like, what did you think of it? And he said, if it feels like everything online used to be better, that's not nostalgia. He's like, that's the business model. That's the way it's supposed to work. So, you know, I think that that's true up until the point where people just refuse to take that shit anymore.
Desiree Ep8 (44:31)
So kind of like it starts. Yeah, so in a way it always starts with quality, right? So what you kind of said earlier about the, you know,
Chris Bevolo (44:32)
Because otherwise...
Desiree Ep8 (44:42)
the pendulum will swing back. It got me thinking about like the Patagonias, which dang, I don't even have my Patagonia on a day. Travesty, the one day I don't have it on. But it's how, when will there be that appliance maker that has that integrity of like, we're in the market of making good, solid, quality products that last you a lifetime?
Chris Bevolo (44:51)
Yeah. Sad.
Desiree Ep8 (45:09)
and that we will you bring if something happens, you bring it in, we'll patch it up and like, get it back out to you instead of this like nickel and diamonds. Like, hey, here is an idea because we will buy. I mean, it just depends on how much it costs. But like, yeah, that will then hopefully become the business model. And then I guess we start the cycle over again. But that's what I'm thinking about is as far as this is like, you know, where are.
the Patagonias, the REIs, and even the Ben and Jerry's, which I know that they sold, so they had to make those different changes to their business. But maybe this will be that lift to then support those types of companies that are trying to create that quality product that lasts and not just looking at how they can nickel and dime and squeeze every penny, but that they're making their money or enough money to live and survive and do the thing, and that's all that matters.
Kind of like the guy that quit is safety for me to go write poetry. And maybe this does give us more of that opportunity to get back to the things that actually do matter. Kind of like what we learned during COVID around relationships and friends, like who and what do we actually want to invite into our lives and what will we leave away when we get back out into the world? It's like, maybe this is another version of that and making us even like self-reflect on what is the most important to us. It has become.
the digital, has become the smartphone, the internet, and that there's so much conversation around like, the laws of the third place. And you your, your friend Scott Calloway, I know he's talking about like, people need to drink more. And I think what he's trying to get at in a terrible roundabout way, because alcoholism is real, is finding ways for us to get back into community with each other. Maybe it's off
Chris Bevolo (46:56)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Desiree Ep8 (47:03)
rid off the digital off the devices, just like having that face to face relationship with one another nature, what have you. But yeah, what if we just say screw it all and we just go outside and play much.
Chris Bevolo (47:19)
Well,
mean, honestly, I've made a place of privilege because I've had my career. I don't have to support a family anymore. But that's I want to do that. I want to I want to step way back from all this consumerism. It doesn't mean I don't want to enjoy life. Just give me like a six pack of beer and some fishing gear and I'm happy. My PlayStation five also, by the way, not cheap.
But it doesn't take much actually when you strip it all down. And so, you know, I've got some convincing to do in my household. My wife's not where I'm at with all that yet. Not that she's like materialistic or anything, but she likes her conveniences as much as the next person. just have to work on that. But yeah, I think, I don't know, the trick with some of this is it kind of goes to you get what you pay for
Desiree Ep8 (47:48)
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (48:15)
in politics, in society, in the products and services that you buy. But people aren't aware. People don't, the education problem is not just they don't know math, or they don't know enough to know that this person's corrupt. It's that they don't know enough that, this dishwasher's $200 cheaper than that dishwasher. So I'm gonna go with the cheaper dishwasher, and then you get stuck.
you end up paying more in the long run, right? I think it was Epson. This is just gratuitous. I remember this was like a couple years ago. So, you know, the printer industry is notorious for like selling you a $10 printer, and then they get you hooked on the ink cartridges at 40 bucks a pop or whatever. But Epson started a service that would automatically monitor your ink usage.
Desiree Ep8 (48:44)
Okay.
Chris Bevolo (49:12)
and send you new ink when you needed it. Which sounded like a great service, and all you had to do was log in, but once you were logged in, you were food, and you could not stop that payment, you could not stop the ink cartridges, it would brick your printer. I'm not making this up. We'll have to go back and find the actual goods on this story, but that is, I just remember so many stories about people saying, because I got a new Canon printer.
Desiree Ep8 (49:21)
What?
Chris Bevolo (49:41)
And they also offered some kind of membership. Maybe it was Canon, but I think it was Epson. And I'm like, no, I'm not, I don't know whatever the benefits of this are. I don't want them to have the ability to lock this thing that I bought. This is mine. This is mine. This also goes to the, there's a lot of laws changing now about the do it yourself fixing situation where a lot of technology companies make it against the contract to fix. Like this is a big deal in farming equipment.
Desiree Ep8 (49:49)
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (50:11)
John Deere, I think, is at the center of this. So you can't repair your John Deere tractor. You have to take it into the manufacturer. And there's a lot of software and crap that goes on in that, right? So their rationale is, well, if you get in there, you're gonna mess things up and blah, blah. But people are suing, saying, this is mine, I bought it. And I want the right to be able to fix it myself. And there are laws being passed to allow that. Because it's a big deal too, it's the same thing.
Desiree Ep8 (50:30)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (50:40)
Like this is mine. I get to do what I want to with it. You don't get to tell me once I paid for it. That's not clear. Yeah, that stuff isn't clear to people.
Desiree Ep8 (50:47)
That's insane.
everything becoming
proprietary that you have to go directly to. was like, honey, I didn't buy a Beamer. I bought a Toyota so that anyone can fix this thing. But now you're telling me I got to go pay BMW prices to get every little thing fixed. No, thank you. That's insane. And actually, that's kind of why I originally wanted that Jeep Wrangler back there, because it was the most like, you know, pared down. was actually speaking of convenience or inconvenient.
A 2006 Jeep Wrangler is deeply inconvenient because I had, because there was nothing electronic about it. Like I would have to like physically like roll down the window and like unlock the door for you to get in. But what was cool about it is that you could do anything to it. You can modify it because you, was all very simple. But now you have this electric hybrid car, any little thing could happen and next thing you know, your car is bricked.
Whereas before, at least you could have changed the carburetor or something, I don't know anything about cars, to fix it. But now everything is super proprietary or you have to plug it into a computer.
Chris Bevolo (51:49)
Yeah.
Noooo
I had the Toyota, what's the small hybrid car, Prius. I had a Prius for a while. And they told me like, you need to get a warranty on this, that and the other if your battery goes, it's $3,000 to replace your battery. There's a hybrid. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And so that, I mean, I think we're all in for a reckoning when our cars start breaking down. It's why car insurance is going up. You read stories about it's going up because it costs so darn much.
Desiree Ep8 (52:05)
experience.
Jesus.
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (52:29)
You get a little fender bender and now you got all these sensors and crap that have to be replaced or fixed. It's just like a nuclear submarine you're driving around. And any little thing costs a lot of money to fix it. It's no longer your Jeep Cherokee that's just like a, you know, we to fix this crank in the window. Now I got to fix like the 14 sensors that tell me like whether or not my window can roll down because the temperature outside is too cool.
Desiree Ep8 (52:57)
Well, it's like, it reminds me of the, what was that movie that came out? Cause you know, like for, for a couple of years now, it felt like there was always this like apocalyptic movie that would always come out at the end of the year, like one of, not WALL-E, this was more recent. So WALL-E, kind of like, it is apocalyptic, but that was like 20 years ago.
Chris Bevolo (52:57)
So.
That's apocalyptic.
Yeah.
Desiree Ep8 (53:23)
Mahershala Ali was in it, like, you know how like Civil War and so anyways, or don't look up this movie. It was the scene at the end was essentially all of these like basically Teslas that lost. They were all just crashing into each other.
Chris Bevolo (53:40)
yes,
yes, yes. That was I know exactly what you're about. It Netflix. It was produced by the Obamas. Leave the world behind.
Desiree Ep8 (53:45)
Leave.
leave the world behind. Yes, something like that.
Chris Bevolo (53:51)
which is a great
movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Desiree Ep8 (53:54)
So anyways, like once, if they have control, collect that printer, if they all have control and access to the insides of your mobiles, they, your printer, from your printer to your car, then they can just do the thing and like make your car, and like that's the end of you. I don't, uh.
Chris Bevolo (54:14)
Wow,
you're going deep. You got the tin foil hat on big time now. That's not what happened in that. They just made them all, they were trying to create chaos in that movie.
Desiree Ep8 (54:20)
I'm... yeah.
They were, yeah, it was just about the chaos. Like there weren't a ton of people in the car. So your car would just like take off and like would just crash. But anyways, so what can we do about this?
Chris Bevolo (54:37)
Well, I mean,
I wrote a few things down. One, and this again is a nice bridge from last week in the boycotting, is to do an audit of your subscriptions. So I think like whether subscriptions are just another way we've been talking about it, some are legitimate. I think a lot of SaaS software, it makes sense to me why it's, I'd rather just pay a monthly thing than have to upload and worry about being outdated and all that kind of stuff. If it's business oriented, that kind of thing.
But a lot of other stuff is just like you set it and forget it and you forget you have this subscription. So go through, right? You can see your subscriptions if you have an iPhone, any of them that you've gone through the Apple store anyway. But boy, we've done this in the past and we keep finding stuff. Like we had two peacock streamer. Like why do we even have one peacock? My wife wanted to watch a show.
Desiree Ep8 (55:25)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (55:32)
that was on Peacock like years ago. So she got it and then we got it again. And I'm like, why do we have two of these? So you'll save yourself money and also kind of cut some chords that you may not need. That seems to be like an easy one that everybody can go through. And then I made another one up, Des. Let me look it up. I like it. I don't remember when Timothy Leary said this. It might've been 1968. Wouldn't that be awesome? Completely coincidental. Definitely in the 60s. If you don't know what Timothy Leary was, he was a
Desiree Ep8 (55:59)
You
Chris Bevolo (56:02)
LSD infused countercultural hero and his famous saying was what did he say turn on tune in and drop out what he meant by those things was dropout was detached from secular social games and the external social drama so basically just stop playing the game
turn on was connecting with your inner self. So turn on to your own self and then re-engage to express the resulting vision and tune in. So that was his way of saying like, fight the power that be. Look at that. I just dropped a 19, was that 80s? Fight the powers. Is that NWA? Fight the power. Public enemy. Okay. So I turned it into turn off, tune out and drop out.
Desiree Ep8 (56:44)
That was like late eight, like 89, 90. Yeah. That was Public Enemy.
Chris Bevolo (56:57)
So what I mean by that is turn off your phone and devices. We talked about brick earlier. Just start creating space from that digital world, right? Tune out of social media, my goodness. I just think social media drives us much harm, way more harm than good. Though in this day and age again, being from Minneapolis with all the ice things, I see the value, we can't get rid of it, but you gotta be able to tune out of the nonstop.
doom scrolling and rage baiting. There's just, that's the business model. That is the business model of social media. So tune out of that. And then my last one, drop out of the dopamine fueled digital rat race and ground yourself. That's what you were saying. Get back to, get back to earth. Get back to like real things. I heard somebody talking about this on a podcast and I won't remember who said it, but they were talking about, remember when Barnes and Noble was the enemy?
Desiree Ep8 (57:44)
Okay.
Chris Bevolo (57:57)
Barnes and Noble was the bad guy. Barnes and Noble was the one coming in and taking over the little local bookstore. And now Barnes and Noble is the hero. Because people go in there and they're like, yeah, I get to pick up a book and it's not Amazon and it's not digital and it's tactile. And now Barnes and Noble is having a rebound culturally and business-wise. So maybe we'll see to your point earlier more of that, more of the authentic experiences coming back in.
Desiree Ep8 (58:10)
you
Hmm.
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (58:26)
We talked about people moving to dumb phones and all of that. So those are the two that I came up with as what do you have for what can we do about this?
Desiree Ep8 (58:35)
Yeah, it's I mean, a just paying attention to it, asking those questions, you know, like, you know, hey, I have been noticing this and then looking at what what can you change? Like what can you like you had said unsubscribe to you and even just making decisions with where you spend your money. So like, yeah, like let's say that we find that, you know, Patagonia business model of the furniture appliance, what have you like the things that are actually quality you buy that.
but for me, it is that, you know, getting outside, like I know with the, metaverse, like that was going to be that next iteration of us just like fully living our lives, just like in the digital world, like allegedly the devil, luckily that, luckily that fetch did not occur. but as it's becoming a little bit warmer and so I'm in Chicago right now and it's, it's felt like,
Chris Bevolo (59:17)
Mark Zuckerberg, he's the devil. He's the devil. It failed.
Desiree Ep8 (59:34)
The winter, can't you feel a brand new day? This was like the first warm moment and that, people are in the parks. People are on the, at the lake. They're walking, they're outside. Everyone's smiling. They're out in the world. Get out in the world. Whenever, especially now that it's, don't know, depending on where you were living right now, start to get outside, get with people.
the more that we were able to just be with one another. I keep getting reminded of that. I think there was like a blackout that happened in Spain maybe like a year ago at this point where what did they do when they lost electricity? Everyone just went outside and hung out with each other and played music.
And it was incredible. I think that's part of us. Cause the more that we are stayed fixated on our devices or phones or laptops, that's how they get us because they're able to track our every single move in that way. Now, granted, I know that there are satellites and cameras and whatever watching us, but that's not going to stop us from, you know, living our best lives, going for a walk, riding a bike, hanging out with friends, going bowling, just going, just doing those everyday activities that do make us feel better.
when we have just been indoors doom scrolling. It's like, yeah, it's that log off. I love that. And this can be for another episode of like kind of how we got here. I think that the drug and the cultural change that occurred in the sixties and seventies have a lot to do with where we are today. But that, mean, maybe this is our like hippie era in a way where we are.
Chris Bevolo (1:01:11)
It's coming. Yeah.
Let's hope. Yeah.
Desiree Ep8 (1:01:12)
It's coming like it's everything is cyclical and I'm fine with
it. But that more than off grid in a way kind of life. And I'm not saying go live in a commune, but like actually just go do take in nature, take an art, go live your life and you know, get off the devices because they're, they're not helping. So yeah, I think that's.
Chris Bevolo (1:01:34)
Yeah, just
two six stories for me in two days. Saturday night, Friday night, Thursday night, Thursday night, we watched our friends play basketball, our friends son play high school basketball through an app. So they follow his team and we can watch when we can't go in person because we try to go in person when we can. But to do that, I have to have my phone stream the game and then use AirPlay to put it on the TV.
So my phone becomes unusable to me. So this night I had video game nights. This is kind of a warped example of success. But the phone was upstairs so my wife could watch the game and I was downstairs playing video games with friends. So it's electronic, it's digital, but I just left my phone up there all night. And I can't tell you how many times I turned to just pick it up, because you got breaks in the game and stuff. And I was like, cool. And I'm like, this is kind of something.
Desiree Ep8 (1:02:26)
Yeah.
Ugh.
Chris Bevolo (1:02:34)
My phone's in another room for like four hours. Wow, I can't remember the last time it was away from my phone for four hours. And then Sunday when I bricked it, it was brick from nine to five. And I did not go online the whole day Sunday. So even just physically removing yourself from the phone, physically leaving it home or something, imagine that, just imagine it. What would you actually miss?
Desiree Ep8 (1:02:38)
And then.
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (1:03:03)
What would you miss? Yes, the odds on emergency call that somebody needs to get ahold of you. That's really all you'd miss. The rest of it? Nuh-uh. We're just addicted. I'm addicted. I know I'm addicted. And so I have to treat this like an addiction and work at it. So.
Desiree Ep8 (1:03:03)
Mm.
Yeah. Yeah.
addicted.
It's
almost like kind of during COVID era, that moment that like 2020 where everyone discovered the great outdoors. And I think about like, okay, how did I spend my 2020 and 2021? And it was, I had just gotten a camera. I told myself, I'm gonna get into photography. I'm like, great, the world has shut down. So I have no excuse. And I just went out.
took photos and I had gotten an e-bike. And so essentially all I would do is go ride my bike. I felt like a kid again. I felt incredible. And then went and took pictures and just got so much delight. So I'm like, I'm going to see like what other analog thing. I know the e-bike is not analog, whatever. What? Yeah. But like, what is that analog version of us that gets us off of our addiction? Go do that. Go bring joy into your own life. And
Chris Bevolo (1:04:06)
Norris, PlayStation 5. But go ahead.
Desiree Ep8 (1:04:19)
Yeah, I think that's how we'll get through this phase of deep-seated capitalism and survive. So, yeah.
Chris Bevolo (1:04:25)
All right. All right. Well,
we'll keep making progress every week. Should we wrap on that? That positive note? All right, we're going to wrap it up. So, Des, thank you again for... We got to come up with a different analogy or metaphor than what I used last week when we're talking about open yourself up and being vulnerable. I used a violent... Is there another one that we have? Opening your heart.
Desiree Ep8 (1:04:31)
Let's wrap it up.
I don't know. Open your heart. Open your chakras.
Chris Bevolo (1:04:53)
Open your heart. Thank you again for opening your heart as on this episode.
Desiree Ep8 (1:04:59)
always just sitting here. It had been so cold and closed off for so long, but it's been warmed up.
Chris Bevolo (1:05:03)
that's
sad. That's sad. Well, hopefully we warmed your hearts up. Those of you listen, how about that? Say, you like that? that was top cheese. That was top cheese right there. If you do like having your heart opened or listening to us or weighing in with us, please like and subscribe to the podcast and iTunes. It helps ensure more people can hear us. We love the five stars. Let us have them if you think we deserve it.
Desiree Ep8 (1:05:11)
Bam, wow, a poet.
Chris Bevolo (1:05:32)
visit Bering287.com or follow me on Substack to access more helpful content from our network. I am Chris Bavilo and on behalf of I'm Not Even Supposed to Be Here and Bering287, thanks for joining us. We will talk to you, I think in two weeks. We're gonna take a break. So in two weeks, we'll be back. Talk to you later. Bye.