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The clotting event doesn't wait for the right time. It doesn't meander or hesitate. It makes its presence known when you oftentimes least expect it. And right before we started taping, like something just hit me and I had a hard time catching my breath. And I was just like, man, this is really, really weird. But I, you know, we had a show to do. What do you do when a moment that feels symptomatically mundane goes from bad to worse?
the doctor immediately said, you need to go to the emergency room right now. And that's when I knew, whatever this is, it just got real, real fast.
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Every six minutes, somebody in America dies of a blood clot. We're here to change that statistic. Welcome to Taking a Breath, a Stop the Clot podcast. An award-winning podcast dedicated to bringing awareness of the dangers of blood clots from the clotting disorders community to the world. With the help of many notable blood clot survivors, we are here to give you the knowledge and the skills you need to prevent this silent killer. My name is Leslie Lake.
I am the president of the National Blood Clot Alliance and I am a blood clot survivor. And my name is Todd Robertson. I'm the patient engagement liaison for the National Blood Clot Alliance and I am a seven-time blood clot survivor. And we're here to stop the clot.
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As we've discussed many times on this podcast, symptoms of a clotting event are often generic, from an ache to a soreness to a pesky cough that you just can't shake. For many, the lead up to these crucial moments feels unceremonious and uneventful. In the event of our guest today, it was so commonplace that going to work didn't feel out of the question. How do you distinguish the severity of a situation that can feel so ordinary?
from the dangers of this very real threat. Please join me in welcoming our guest today to discuss his journey as a blood clot survivor. This is Dave Hall.
My name is Dave Hall. I'm a morning news anchor in Las Vegas, Nevada. So my story actually starts on December 30th of 2023. My family, we were up in Brian Head, Utah, vacationing for the New Year's, went snowboarding. We were playing flag football with the kids, doing all kinds of stuff. And we're like, hey, there's a pickleball court over there. I had never played pickleball before. We hopped on the court, started playing. And ironically enough, I was playing against my wife and I stepped back.
Felt like somebody punched me or kicked me right in the back of my calf. Next thing you know, I'm on the ground in pain. And sure enough, torn Achilles tendon from playing pickleball for the first time in my life. Because we were on vacation, I couldn't get it looked at for about three more days. And it was during the holidays, but I knew I felt the pop. And we have some friends who work in that world and they had some tests we could run to see if my Achilles was attached. And I was failing all the tests. So I pretty much knew.
that I had torn my Achilles and then got it confirmed once I saw a doctor. So the first step was I opted not to have surgery because the doctor basically said, unless you're like a professional athlete or something, you know, somebody my age, my activity level, it heals on its own and it heals almost as strong as if you would have surgery and the re rupture rate is very low. So he's like, you avoid any complications of having surgery. So I was like, well, that sounds good. So they threw a cast on it.
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And I was in the cast, you know, I had my little roller. I was going back to where, you know, when you have a major injury, like an Achilles tear, you don't realize how it affects every single aspect of your life. Like everything is a pain in the, know what, everything takes 10 times longer. Just go into the bathroom, like doing anything. So about a month of that and kind of readjusting to my new life, you know, I was going back to work.
and everything was going fine. The Achilles was going fine. And then one day I also, I host a betting show, a football betting show at the TV station. And it was a Thursday. And I remember that Monday, Tuesday of that week, I felt a little sick, not nothing bad. Like I was still going to work, you know, a little bit of a sore throat, a little fatigue, a little out of breath, doing some things, but nothing alarming, nothing that would raise red flags.
And then Thursday, so literally we're taping in the studio at the TV station, taping our football betting show. And right before we started taping, like something just hit me and I had a hard time catching my breath. And I was just like, man, this is really, really weird. But you know, we had a show to do.
So I just kind of powered through it and I was literally having a hard time just getting through the segments. I was losing my breath. I was having a hard time just getting through a sentence or two. And honestly, at the time I thought, because COVID was starting to rage again at the time, I thought, I know shortness of breath and fatigue was one of the signs of COVID. So I thought, I wonder if I just have a bad bout of COVID. Blood clots never entered my mind once. I had never once in my life thought about blood clots. And even in that moment, I wasn't.
So I go home, we get through the taping barely and I head home and I just relax for the rest of the night. And then a really bad cough started to develop and the fatigue was just getting worse and worse to the point where just getting out of bed and going to the bathroom, I was out of breath. And so I'm going to have to go to a health clinic tomorrow. And it was probably a blessing in disguise. I literally coughed through the night. I didn't sleep at all. I had a really violent cough and that
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Probably was a blessing in disguise because it kept me awake. It kept me up And so the next morning about six o'clock my wife who was a nurse and was getting very concerned about me as well as like we should probably go to the quick care and She's like, yep. She's like, let's go right now. So we go to the quick care the first thing they do of course is they check your oxygen level with the pulsometer thing and A healthy level is anywhere from 99 95 to like 99 percent. I was 72 percent
And so the nurse who did it immediately called in the doctor. The doctor immediately said, you need to go to the emergency room right now. And that's when I knew, uh-oh, whatever this is, it just got real, real fast. And so literally within, I don't know, less than 24 hours, I went from taping a show in studio to the back of an ambulance riding. And I still didn't know what it was at the time. I still thought I had a bad, bad a COVID.
like at this point, blood clots still was not even a thought for me. I wasn't panicking. My wife had a really good poker face. She told me after the fact that she had a suspicion that it was a blood clot, that she didn't want to freak me out. So she was very concerned, but she wasn't showing it to me. So as I'm riding in the back of the ambulance, I'm just like, wow, this took a turn. I, you know, I wasn't expecting this.
And even once we arrived to the hospital and they garnered me in, I was like, okay, well, let's, you know, they're going to run some tests and it's going to be a bad, bad COVID and we'll take it from there. And then they started running some scans and after about a couple hours, the doctors come back in and they're like, yeah, we have pretty serious problem here. You have a massive blood clot and it turned out to be a saddle PE. So it was both sides of my lungs and it was huge. And so this went from, bummer, I got COVID to
Holy crap. My life's potentially in danger here. So things turned very, very quickly. They immediately put me on some powerful blood thinners. And then it was about three, four hours of just a blur. Doctors and nurses coming in. My oxygen levels were so low. They put like this supersonic oxygen thing into me. Not like your typical oxygen tank. I mean, this was like,
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rocket blast through my nose. So it was, it was very disorienting. had a massive headache at the time. They were talking about their various options and right from the beginning, again, thankfully my wife works in the healthcare industry and she doesn't work in this field specifically, but she knows her stuff. Once she realized how large the clot was and where it was specifically, she wanted them to do the thrombectomy like right away. The doctors were throwing some other options out there, but
She was very adamant about the thrombectomy. And then finally, the final doctor, the guy who I called my guardian angel, Dr. Stan Lu, who works for the St. Rose Hospital System here in Southern Nevada, he came in and he's like, yep, we need to do the thrombectomy on you. We need to do it as soon as possible. And so that's when it really landed for me that it was like, holy crap, this is life and death stuff right here. You know, this went from an inconvenient cough to...
Holy crap, I'm in the emergency room needing a life-saving procedure like that. For having a spouse that works in healthcare, I've always, I guess, taken it for granted. I've never really had any major health scares in my life. In fact, when I tore my Achilles, that was the most serious injury I've ever had in my life. So, I mean, I had a one-two punch right out of the gate in 2024. You realize just how fragile it is and how quickly things can change and really having almost no warning, at least no
red flag horns blaring warning. It was like, I had a cough. You know, maybe I have COVID. No, no, no, you, have the most serious blood clotting disorder known to mankind and we have to save your life like right now. So it took me a couple of days, but once everything kind of settled in and you really start thinking back of what just happened, cause it all happened so fast. You definitely have a greater appreciation for life and
I definitely have a greater appreciation for my wife who if it wasn't for her, I don't know if I'm here today. I'll tell you that.
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So this happened early February, 2024, so about a month after my Achilles tear. And she had been talking about your story, I think, could really resonate with a lot of people. And I think you could maybe help some people. And I really pushed back on it because it was such a personal experience that I kind of wanted to not share it and just keep it in here. I'm kind of that way as a person anyway, I keep a lot of stuff inside. But as wise as she is.
she finally convinced me to do it and it got exactly the reaction she said it would. I've been doing TV news for about 30 years now and I got more response from this story than I think every other story I've ever done combined. It just really connected with the people of Las Vegas and I got dozens and dozens and dozens of emails and phone calls and letters, people still writing letters these days of people who have gone through something similar. I was telling you beforehand.
The day after the story aired, was at the gym working out and this really big muscular guy comes up to me. He's like, Hey, are you the news guy? And I'm like, yeah, yeah. Hey, know, you never know what's coming after that. And he's like, I saw your story yesterday morning. He's like, I've been having this pain in my leg, kind of like what you were talking about. And it made me make an appointment with my doctor to get it looked at. And I've had dozens of people with similar stories to that. So while I was initially hesitant to do the story.
really glad I did. I was one of those people. I had never thought about blood clots once in my life until they said, have a massive pulmonary embolism and you need life-saving surgery. And it's like, wait, what? What's funny about that too is for a lot of people, and I'm one of those people, until you're directly affected by something, sometimes it's just something that's out there. And now I see blood clot stories everywhere. I just saw recently that Gal Gadot, the actress who played Wonder Woman, had a blood clot when she was pregnant.
Serena Williams, the tennis star, she dealt with blood clots when she was pregnant. know, college football players, NFL players. And so it's like now I see blood clot stuff everywhere, whereas before it just didn't register. I guess what I would say to people is listen to your body. Your body is always your best messenger. And thankfully I did. Like a lot of guys that can be stubborn and not want to go to doctors and just be like, I'll be fine. But in this case, I knew something was off and I knew something was different this time.
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So even though I didn't know it was blood clots, you know, I knew it was bad, whatever it was. And so, you know, I knew I needed to go get it checked out and I'm so grateful I did. also, you know, just spread the word, listen to this podcast and you'll see and hear the stories of people from all around the world in different settings and different lives. And we all share this common link now of being affected by blood clots. And what I didn't know is just how many people are affected by it and just how widespread it is because it's never talked about.
which is another reason why I wanted to do the story is to try to help spread awareness of it. And that's why it's so great you guys are doing this podcast too.
As we advance in the medical field alongside new discovery, we use new information to inform present day processes and change the way we care for patients. When it comes to blood clots and clotting events, how are strategies advancing to help mitigate catastrophic complications when blood thinners are not enough? Here to discuss mechanical thrombectomy as a life-saving procedure from Corwell West in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
This is Dr. Mike Knox. Hello, I'm Mike Knox. I'm an interventional radiologist. I work in Grand Rapids, Michigan with a group called Advanced Radiology Services. Work predominantly out of Corwell Health West in Grand Rapids. Pulmonary embolism and DVT have been a passion of mine for many years. And it's very exciting to me to see evolution of technology. I've been doing interventional radiology now almost 40 years.
and see over the last decade or two, there's been a substantial interest now in addressing the needs of our communities with pulmonary embolism. It's something that's been relatively unaddressed historically, but I think that now there's some tools that allow us to really address this disease and so focus on diagnosis to first of all identify who might be affected by the disease and then apply the appropriate therapies. And so it's a very exciting time for me personally, and I think for
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or community of physicians and patients that are affected by this disease. Thrombectomy refers to physical removal of clot from the body wherever it might be.
There are various ways to address pulmonary embolism specifically is what we're talking about. Whether to allow blood thinner, which doesn't dissolve clot, but simply prevents clot from forming to prevent additional clot from forming and then allow the body's own mechanisms to break down clot, which we have the ability to do. So that's been kind of the historical way that PE's been treated is just with blood thinner and allowing patients to recover on their own or not, as the case may be.
There are drugs that can actually dissolve clot but come with some inherent risks. But mechanical thrombectomy is an exciting new advance in the last several years that actually allows physical removal of the clot from the blood vessels where it's obstructing. And so it's a process that involves putting a catheter into the venous system and negotiating to wherever the clot is and then applying suction typically to aspirate the clot out.
One of the exciting things about this procedure is it can be done very safely and with minimal sedation or even no sedation when appropriate. So patients can be awake alert and we can assess them clinically as to how they're responding. It's not typically a painful procedure except for just the local anesthetic that is applied in the groin where we put the catheter in from. So it can be very well tolerated with minimal or no sedation. It takes about an hour or so to do. And one of the very gratifying
parts of mechanical thrombectomy from a procedural standpoint is the fact that we're actually able to see the clot that we get out. So instead of just dissolving and hope that it goes away and improves things, we actually can physically see the clot as it comes out of the body and we run through a filter and remove the clot. We can then assess kind of how patients have responded, not only clinically by monitoring their vital signs and how they're breathing and oxygen saturation, but also as we inject some contrast to map out the pulmonary circulation, we can see in real time how that's improved after removing.
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So very gratifying from a procedural standpoint, but also from a patient standpoint, they can experience immediate relief and improvement.
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So my first question is, you still playing pickleball? I have not played pickleball since then, but I have. Just over a year later, we were back in Utah, same scene of the crime. And I did get back on my snowboard and I snowboarded for the first time since I tore my Achilles. So I'll probably play pickleball again just to get that monkey off my back kind of thing. But I'm in no rush. Let's put it that way.
If I never see a crutches or a walker or one of those. It was so miserable. swear. The second thing is thank God for your wife. Yes. You know, because we presented with all of this information and life saving situation and oh, by the way, we want to do something called mechanical thrombectomy, like make a decision right now. The fact that she even knew what it was.
work is incredible. No, you're absolutely right. Because I was clueless. I mean, I wouldn't know what to do. I would have no idea. And you know, they were throwing different options. And you know, I was kind of out of it at the time. So I was just kind of laying in bed, huffing and puffing trying to get oxygen into my lungs. And so she really took control. And she was on the phone working her doctor sources. And I mean, it was
It was really impressive. And the most impressive thing of all was she knew how dire my situation was, but she never let on to me. I mean, it's amazing. Somebody was definitely looking out for you that day for sure. I'm curious to there's so many similarities when you're talking. was listening to it. I was like, my gosh, she's like, he's like reading my story also really, particularly after it happened.
I didn't want to share it with anybody. Like I wanted it to be my thing that I was processing and, and I didn't have any interest in it until I started to realize that I could actually have a positive impact on other people. Cause it's really weird that it happens so often with such frequency. mean, it's the statistics are every six minutes, somebody dies from it in the United States every minute somebody's diagnosed with it. But like people just don't know about it.
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This is a great opportunity to actually raise awareness for something that everybody should know about because it's so preventable. And especially with men, I mean, we're hard headed, we're knuckleheads. We all know this. I fall under that category. And so we're just like, we'll be fine. We'll be fine. And in a lot of cases you will be, but not if you have a blood clot. I was surprised of all the people who reached out to me. The number of men who reached out to me was probably more than the number of women.
And I was really kind of surprised by that and also heartened by that. Cause I guess, you know, sometimes guys need to hear it from another guy. Maybe I don't know, you know, maybe that's the mentality. Military veterans, the big muscle guy at the gym, just, you know, people you wouldn't normally expect to hear from were reaching out. And that was really rewarding that it landed with them as well.
Well, it is important to have your voice and to have a male voice as well, because you're right. Men tend not to share the way that women do. I also, watched you share your story. There's a recording of it and I watched you share your story and I just, I cried at the end of it because it was so emotional. Yeah. Yeah, that was hard. Cause you know, I pride myself on being a, you know, a strong man, of course.
And so I didn't want to do that, but I couldn't help it. was, I was overcome not only, you know, my wife who was like I said, just an absolute rock, not only that day, but days after and whatnot, but all the medical staff that took care of me, my doctor, Dr. Stan Liu, who's the one who performed the thrombectomy. And I remember I was waiting to get wheeled into the operating room. He came over and talked to me. And you know, at that point I was just like, well, you know, this could be it. Like if.
If this doesn't go well, I don't know what happens from here. And he just really put me at ease. He's like, I've done a lot of these. I've been looking over your scans. I'm gonna get that out of you. Don't worry, I'm gonna take care of you. And I don't know if people know, but during the procedure, you're awake. Like I was awake. So that's one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about is because mechanical thrombectomy is relatively new and it's a new treatment option for patients. Thank God it didn't exist for...
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venous blood clots that many years ago. What was that whole process like? Because you are awake for the procedure. Well, mean, they start, they insert the catheter or whatever through the groin and then start snaking it up through your chest. And you can feel that, by the way. Did you have that procedure as well? No, I didn't. I had straight anticoagulation. Okay. And so you can literally feel it snaking through your chest. So that's very weird.
I remember the doctor saying, I think the procedure was maybe hour, hour and 15 minutes. He's like, you and you should, you should feel instant relief when I start sucking out. mean, it's called the flow tree, ver is what the machine is called. And so it literally, it's like a little vacuum cleaner that goes in there, attaches itself to the clots and then sucks them out. That's how the machine works. And so we're probably, I don't know, you like I said, I'm kind of in a haze, but what felt like a long time.
And I was not getting any relief. I was still having a hard time breathing. And I was thinking to myself, it's not working. He can't get them out. At that moment, I was starting to get kind of concerned. And then he was checking in on me from time to time. And then he said, David, are you doing okay? And I'm like, yeah, he's like, okay, I'm going to go in now and start sucking them out. I'm like, oh, thank God. He hadn't gotten to that part yet. And I'm not kidding, Leslie, when he said you feel instant relief, like
you could literally feel the clots being sucked out of your chest. I always say it's almost like an elephant was sitting on your chest and the elephant stands up. It's just like this rush of oxygen into your body. And it was just like, take this deep breath of oxygen and it was just such a relief. was like, thank God it worked. I mean, it's really amazing how far technology has come. And now we need to make sure there's enough interventional radiologists who can perform this procedure.
so that other people can get access to it, because it's not everywhere. No, it's not. that was another reason why I wanted to do the story is because that is pretty new technology. I wanted to help share that side of it as well and let people know who are in dire straits, that there are other options. Oddly enough, a guy I work with at the TV station a few months after me also came down with blood clots.
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Fortunately and unfortunately, his case wasn't as severe as mine. So he didn't get the thrombectomy. They just put him on the blood thinners. And so it took him about a good three to four months to even somewhat recover. He's still not a hundred percent as to what he was before. Whereas in my case, you know, I went from, crap, super dire situation. Dr. Lou works his magic. And then I was okay. Like I've been fine ever since I've had no other problems. I've had.
follow up scans that have come back clean. So I could not recommend that thrombectomy enough if you're qualified to get it. Unfortunately, if you're in that sort of situation, if you're in the hands of a good doctor like I was, relief can come and come quickly for you. Yeah, no, it's amazing because your oxygen level was really low. Yeah. Yeah. It was when we first got the reading, the nurse just kind of looked and she actually
She's like, let me test your other hand. so she tested my other hand and it came back the same. And then she, that's when she went and got the doctor who then retested it. And they're like, yeah, you need to go to the emergency room immediately. Yeah. Now, when you said 72%, I was like, my gosh, you know, because we all tend to male or female put things off and not listen to our body enough. And you were like, you know, something seems off.
get it checked out. We really want people to do that and to be able to advocate for themselves to say, hey, could it be a blood clot? Can I get checked for it? And then it gets worse and worse and worse. And the outcome is then substantially worse or they die from it. So it's great encouragement for people. Yeah. Well, you saw my story that ran my blood doctor, Dr. Kingsley here in town, who's awesome. You know, one of the things he said, one of the early symptoms of blood clots is instant death.
You get no warning at all. a third of the people. Yeah. You're just here and then you're gone. Just like that. and also for people who suffer, you know, significant injuries, like I did the torn Achilles, I didn't think of, oh, I could develop blood clots from this. So anybody who suffers significant injuries. We had a weird year at our TV station. We had a lot of guys getting injured. Another guy broke his foot and I saw him and I was like, I was like, Hey, did you hear? And this was before my story ran. I was like, Hey, did you hear what happened?
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to me. He's like, no, what I told him because you know, again, another guy had no idea had broken his foot wasn't really doing some of the things he should have been doing. So I told him my story and he instantly was like, okay, he's like, good to know. I'm glad to he didn't know. There's a senator in Delaware. Her name is Lisa Blunt Rochester. And her husband Charles actually died. He had torn his Achilles playing basketball.
He ended up getting a pulmonary embolism and he passed away from it. think it was 50 or early 50s. And she has actually introduced legislation to try to make Congress aware of this because there's absolutely zero dedicated federal funding for block clot education and awareness. It's one of the things that the National Block Clot Alliance is working on really hard to make people aware of this because the majority of this is preventable. Somebody shouldn't be dying every six minutes from this in this country. Like we're better than that.
But we need funding so that we can actually raise awareness and help people. didn't make it, you did, thankfully, but this is no joke. No, I don't know if you heard, I was talking before that the actress that played Wonder Woman just came out in the news that she had a blood clot in her brain. Serena Williams, tennis star, had a blood clot. I actually listened to your guys' most previous podcast about the college football player. Like just absolutely...
gutting. you know, now I'm hyper aware of blood clots. Whereas before, unless it was a big star, like, like someone like that, I wouldn't even have got my attention. So yeah, the fact that there's, there's really almost no awareness of this, and just how prevalent it is, and how potentially fatal it is. I even asked my blood doctor, Dr. Kingsley, why that is, and he's like, I don't know, like he's frustrated by it, too. So that's why it's it's so great, you guys are doing what you're doing.
to try to help spread the word. And you for helping us do that. mean, March is BlunkBot Awareness Month. We're really trying to raise awareness as much as possible. I would love to have you join us in that initiative as well to get the word out. Sure. And you have a platform. And I applaud you for using your platform and sharing your story because not everybody would. Dave, honestly, this will save lives. Yeah. Well, and it's sad that that's the case.
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we're at this point, but you got to start somewhere. And people like you and others who have been affected by this and want to do something about it. It's inspiring. And the fact that it does affect so many people, I would think this is a cause that a lot of people would jump on board with. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. We're going to give it the old college try and really blaze some trails here because like I said, nobody should be dying from this. Yeah.
Absolutely, absolutely. And one of the things that bothers my wife is when I tore my Achilles, there was no talk of blood clots from my doctors on that end of things. And I don't know if it's connected or not. But I remember one time I was just doing a checkup probably two to three weeks after I tore my Achilles and the guy was squeezing my calf and it hurt really bad. And I was even I was like,
And he's like, that hurt. I'm like, yeah. Now I know, oh crap, that's probably a blood clot. At the time I didn't, and it didn't raise a red flag with them. So I just wish on that side of things, there was more education as well to be more aware of that because, you know, if they had put me on maybe some blood thinners or some baby aspirin or what things I know now, maybe I could have done that right away and would have avoided what ended up happening.
Right. No, I think you're right. And for some reason we need to do a better job educating some orthopedic people because we unfortunately see this a lot. And like I said before, Senator Blount Rochester's husband was a casualty from this and also could have been avoided. Dave, I want to thank you for joining us here today. Your story was incredible. It was riveting. I am so thankful that you're here. A giant virtual hug to your wife. Awesome.
I'm looking forward to meeting her. She played an incredible role in all of this. honestly, like at some point in time, the two of you telling the story together, I think would be doubly impactful. So we're thankful to her as well, but we're incredibly thankful for you sharing today. It means a lot. Like I said before, it will save lives. Well, thank you guys for having me and thank you for the work that you guys are doing that is not being done enough.
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We want to thank Dave one more time for sharing his experience as a blood clot survivor with us here today. A special thank you to the wonderful Dr. Mike Knox for his insight and expertise. Thank you for joining us here today on another episode of Taking a Breath. For more information on risk prevention and community, please visit stoptheclot.org. We know the patient because we are the patient.
Together with listeners like you, we can collectively stop the clock.
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another Everything Podcast production. Visit everythingpodcast.com, a division of Patterson Media. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.