116 - RFK vs. Big Pharma, Elon’s Aid Freeze, and ChatGPT’s SoftBank

Show Notes

Caroline Carralero joins Vic to discuss gut health, probiotics, and metabolic wellness. They break down how supplements impact weight loss, why gut microbiome health is critical, and the future of AI in healthcare. The episode also covers Trump’s tariffs, venture capital trends, and FDA food safety regulations.

Links:

00:07 - Guest Host: Caroline Carralero CEO of Daily Nouri

11:30 - Daily Nouri Podcast: Gut Check

12:47 - Inside the Chaotic Run-Up to Trump’s Tariff U-Turn WSJ

17:21 - Trump Tariffs Caused a Market Meltdown, but Investors Shook It Off WSJ

18:05 - China Retaliates Against U.S., Intensifying Trade War WSJ

19:01 - SafelyYou Raises $43M Series C CityBiz

21:42 - KKR Raises Its Direct Stakes in Three Companies WSJ

23:46 - RFK Jr. appears on his way to being Trump's health secretary after a party-line vote NPR

24:24 -  RFK Jr. is 'the perfect person for this job at this time,' Daily Nouri founder says on Fox

34:41 - Physician group sues Trump admin to reverse agencies' health web page, data blackout Fierce Healthcare

36:44 - Musk Moves With Lightning Speed to Exert Control Over the Government WSJ

40:17 - Trump Signs Order to Create U.S. Sovereign-Wealth Fund WSJ

42:32 - Centene beats the Street with $283M in profit for Q4 Fierce Healthcare

42:55 - Teladoc Health acquires Catapult Health for $65M to boost chronic condition management, at-home testing Fierce Healthcare

44:44 - Here's why researchers think most people stop taking weight loss drugs within a year USA Today

45:05 - Discontinuation and Reinitiation of Dual-Labeled GLP-1 Receptor Agonists Among US Adults With Overweight or Obesity Jama

52:14 - Novartis Sets High Bar in Pursuit of Obesity Deals, CEO Says WSJ

53:45 - Merck Shares Hit After Guidance Falls Short, Gardasil Challenge WSJ

55:26 - Press Ganey partners with Microsoft in generative AI expansion Fierce Healthcare

57:28 - Introducing deep research OpenAI website

1:01:39 - SoftBank, OpenAI to Offer AI Services in Japan WSJ

1:02:43 - Google’s Revenue Growth Slows, Sending Shares Down WSJ

1:04:29 - ChatGPT vs. Claude vs. DeepSeek: The Battle to Be My AI Work Assistant WSJ

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What is Health:Further?

Every week, healthcare VCs and Jumpstart Health Investors co-founders Vic Gatto and Marcus Whitney review and unpack the happenings in US Healthcare, finance, technology and policy. With a firm belief that our healthcare system is doomed without entrepreneurship, they work through the mud to find the jewels, highlight headwinds and tailwinds, and bring on the smartest guests to fill in the gaps.

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Thank you.

Okay, welcome to Health Further.

We have a guest host this week.

Caroline, thanks for doing this.

Marcus is out of town.

He is in the Middle East solving Mideast peace and maybe raising some money over there.

So thanks for jumping in and stepping into his shoes.

I appreciate you hosting.

Of course.

Yeah.

Thanks for being, uh, or thanks for having me and it's good to be with you again.

It's been a few years since I've, uh, reported with you.

So awesome stuff.

And, and to everyone who I haven't met, it's nice to meet you.

My name is Caroline.

Yeah.

And so, um, Caroline, maybe give a little bit of your, your biography, your background that brought you to be running Nori right now.

So you started off in a different company.

I think it was a juice.

Talk about your interest in health and diet and how that's manifesting your, in your first company and then Nori.

Yep, absolutely.

So I actually started my career unintentionally, actually, in, in, uh, the food and beverage industry.

I started as one of the earliest employees of a juice company called Suja, which was an organic juice company that started in 2011 2012 when we launched products, and that company grew, uh, incredibly fast.

One of the fastest growing beverage companies in history.

And what was really unique about it was that we were really disruptive, in that we were delivering organic fruits and vegetables, organic, cold pressed, very high quality juice to the masses, really, is what it was.

And so, um, we were working and, and sourcing up to 300, 400, 000 pounds of organic produce every single week.

I got a very awesome crash course on Not just product development and bringing a product to market and scaling it, but really most importantly, the food industry.

And I love that aspect of my learning and, uh, food, health and wellness industry.

Um, all of the nuances of working with different customers, all of the nuances of how do you produce a product, produce it safely and high quality.

So that was very interesting.

Um, and kind of got bit also in that, uh, time by the entrepreneurial bug, I would say.

And, uh, for those of you that are listening that have gotten, uh, that same bite to, you know, that is really hard to, to kick.

And so I've been involved in starting many different companies since, um, but I've really focused on health and wellness ever since then.

So spent a few years there that company did phenomenally well, we were able to pass it on to other leadership.

And during my time there, we started to.

Integrate different what are called spore former bacteria or probiotics, right?

So good probiotics into the juices to try and make the beverages even more functional and helpful for Americans.

And so, um, through that process, I was really introduced to the science and, um, benefits and quality behind, uh, probiotics and also behind the entire gut microbiome category.

So went through my own journey of how do you optimize your gut?

Optimize your health.

Um, my kind of phrase that I live by is that good health actually starts with gut health.

It's foundational to human health.

Um, for those of you that don't know, we have what's called a gut microbiome, which is a ecosystem of bacteria.

It lives in and on our body.

It's incredibly important.

It controls, you know, for example, 70 percent of your immune cells are located in your gut, so it controls your immune system.

But also we're learning so much about how the gut microbiome impacts your brain impacts hormones, all of these different things.

So, um, I've dedicated my career so far.

To, you know, health and wellness and then specifically over the last couple of years, just specifically to the gut microbiome.

So founded a company called daily nori.

Our goal is to create the highest quality clinically supported products and make sure that they're accessible.

That's a really key part of our mission.

So all of our different products are available.

Nationwide, uh, Amazon, key retailers like Walmart and Albertsons and HEP.

So thousands of retailers across the country.

Um, and we're really in this sweet spot of between 20 and 40 a month, which allows a lot of accessibility to these high quality products.

So that's what I've been up to.

We're located in California, um, travel and are on the road a lot.

And are very passionate about how we can help Americans live healthier lives.

So we've got a lot of key focuses, but really specifically what you see us work on right now, a lot is hormone health and women's health.

That's a core issue that we're focused on tackling.

And then also metabolic and weight health.

That's another issue, um, that we're just really drawn to right now because of the demand and because of the need.

So that's what we do.

Tell

me how the product, uh, details work.

In the metabolic health, maybe because that covers everyone.

So is it a daily, um, maybe supplement that you drink or is it a pill?

Like, what is, what's the form factor of it?

Yeah, that's exactly right.

So we actually have two formats.

One that's out right now and one that's launching in a couple of weeks.

We produced it today, which is.

Oh, wow.

So we have a format that's called a capsule and capsule.

So that's a probiotic capsule, um, that's surrounded by a plant based to make oil and that's available nationally at Walmart and it's a probiotic that's actually proven to help with metabolic health and also really key indicators of metabolic health, like BMI.

So reducing BMI, reducing, um, uh, hip circumference and waist circumference, which are two of the indicators that we look at within about 90 days.

So that product's awesome.

We've had that out for a couple of years.

It's one of our top.

And

I'm an, I'm an investor, so I'm cheating, but the capsule and capsule sort of allows the actual really healthy probiotic stuff to get to the intestines.

Is that right?

It gets through the stomach.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So when I was starting the company, I read some really good research that was published back in 2013 that showed there was this unique relationship between omegas and probiotics.

And what this research showed that was that if you combined omegas and probiotics, the omega actually helps deliver the probiotic further into the body.

And I thought, you know, I'm a very practical person.

I thought that just makes sense.

They protect, you know, the fatty acids, protect the probiotic.

So we use this capsule and capsule so that we can deliver the probiotics further into the body.

And we decided to use an omega oil that's called ahi flower, which is a very efficient plant based and clean oil.

Um, and it's one of the highest sources of omega threes from plants that's ever been found.

Um, and it's also allows us to not be reliant on.

China for fish oil, right?

So there's a lot of issues with the fish oil supplied.

So I wanted to go with a plant based or an algae source.

And so long story short, that symbiotic relationship is pretty amazing.

We published a study before we launched the products that showed that it actually delivers.

Twice as many viable cells through complete digestion.

So that capsule and capsule is incredibly unique to all of our capsule formats.

Um, and then we're launching this week.

Uh, or I guess it will launch next week.

But for your viewers, they'll get a sneak peek here.

Um, we produced it today.

A weight and metabolic health in a lemonade format.

So it's a stick pack that you mix into water.

It's a few grams of material, and it works very similar to these GLP one drugs and that it delays gastric emptying and it increases viscosity in the stomach.

So it really helps curb appetite and fill up the stomach.

But instead of the drugs, it's using natural fibers and prebiotics and minerals.

So we're really looking at how can this product.

Not only serve this immediate need of weight loss and filling up the stomach, but also the longterm need, which actually gets the root cause, which is changing the composition of the gut microbiome, which is what we're all about.

And so this product actually changes the gut microbiome within four weeks to favor what's called a lean microbiome.

So those are the things that we're doing within metabolic health.

So we're trying to serve the core demand state of the user, which is weight loss and weight control, but we're really.

looking at it from a long term perspective, which is focusing on metabolic health.

And obviously this is a crisis in our country right now.

So that's a little bit of what we're up to.

If I were to, um, I'd like to get my BMI down.

If I, if I took one of your capsules or this new lemonade, And I don't change the rest of my diet.

Do you have studies with that it can make a difference?

Or do I have to also eat, you know, only lettuce and, uh, be good as well?

No, I mean, all the studies that we've run have.

Not change diet or lifestyle at all.

Um, so we have communication that we can say you don't have to change anything, you just take this.

Um, however, from a philosophical standpoint, our company wants Americans

should try to eat better.

We're

trying to encourage everyone.

So, you know, I'll give you an example.

I mean, we've run advertising that says don't change anything.

Don't change your lifestyle.

But the reality is you, you do have, um, we're a supplement company.

We're not a drug company.

So it's very clear for, you know, anyone who knows the difference between the two, you have expectation management within any of this.

And so we want to be really clear.

I mean, you, to be frank, all the studies are run and you do not have to change your diet.

You do not have to change anything, but we really want people to change their diets if they're not eating healthy.

So to answer your question.

No, you can take the, you can take

it.

The reason I asked it that way is it.

It's a lot easier for me to change my diet when I start seeing some success and okay, I've lost three pounds and now I'm getting a little more energy and I am excited about the progress and so maybe now I won't have that, you know, second bag of chips or whatever.

I'll easily make small changes.

So you sort of partner where they're help, help the customer succeed as opposed to That's right.

That's right.

And that's what we should be doing.

By definition, we're a supplement company, right?

So we're, we're trying to supplement into their lifestyle.

So yeah, I mean, that, that's what we're up to.

There's no shortage of work to do.

I think you'll see us develop a lot more in that category.

Um, one of our other top selling products is our hormone balance product.

And just, you know, a quick minute, 30, 30 to 60 seconds on that.

A lot of women don't know That they have actually a subset of bacteria in their body called the a strobe alone that is focused on and is dedicated to estrogen metabolism, insanely important during times like menopause when your estrogen levels drop, or if you're just working on having a, you know, healthy estrogen levels, which a lot of women that are.

Trying to conceive right now are realizing they have issues and they've got estrogen dominance or these other issues going on.

So that's been another huge, um, area of, of success for us because young women right now, um, are, are unhealthy.

And so we need to help them.

And one of the areas that, that really they're focused on is hormone health and hormone balance.

So there's a lot that we're into everything from our company's perspective is.

Core and central to the gut microbiome.

So we're going to launch a children's product and it will be gut microbiome central and focused.

And what's cool about this area of human health is that there's no shortage of work to be done.

There's so much research that's coming out every day.

It's kind of just getting better and better.

And in our entire lifetimes, we're just going to be at the tip of the iceberg.

So like, there's no, this is kind of what attracted me to it.

I'm super curious.

I never want to be bored.

And this, this is an area where it's like, you could read.

Endlessly and, uh, and continue to learn.

So, yeah, you have

an entire podcast focused on these issues.

I think it's called Jack.

Is that correct?

Yeah, we just, we just started doing this.

So, yeah, so we're, we're, we have launched our podcast called gut check on YouTube and then we have a video aspect of it, which is really fun.

We're, we're then, of course, uh, syndicating that into social media and everything else.

And then we have it on Spotify.

So yeah, it's a, it's a fun way we're, we're, we're doing with that is we're just really, uh, interviewing different people all throughout America that are focused on health and wellness.

And so it's very fun lifestyle, uh, podcast and yeah, I just did a wonderful interview today with a gentleman who works on red light therapy, which has been awesome.

And there's some terrific research around red light therapy.

Um, so yeah, it's been, it's been a wonderful way.

We will put a link to the podcast in the show notes, so hopefully some people can check that out and really dive more into the gut microbiome because it's so impactful to all different aspects of health.

It deserves its own podcast, but you agreed to help me sift through all the new innovations.

So let's dig in there.

Let's do it.

Okay, so, um, it's been a busy week in the economy and politics.

Trump has this habit of stating a really big, maybe shocking, uh, kind of news item.

He did it with tariffs over the weekend.

We're recording this on Wednesday, so he came out over the weekend with huge tariffs on Mexico and Canada, and then a slightly smaller tariff on China.

The stock market did not like that.

It would be really difficult for the economy, but then, uh, after discussions with both Canada and Mexico, that got, uh, turned around.

And so this story in the Wall Street Journal, inside the chaotic run up to tariffs U turn, sort of talks about that 48 hours of chaos around, there's this huge tariff.

Oh, no, no, wait, no tariff.

So, um, do you have a supply?

I think you just mentioned one of your, your official, your oil.

Omega oil is not from China.

Do you have any suppliers outside the U. S. where you're concerned about this?

Yeah, well first just to acknowledge our category as a whole the VMS the vitamin supplement category has a ton of supply coming to China, so this definitely impacts China Um, we do actually Source one material which is actually our glass bottle for those of your listeners that are that are tuning into this.

I mean Glass, we don't really have a good supply of what's called disposable glass in the US.

So things like olive oil bottles, beer bottles, and for us, a glass supplement bottle is considered disposable glass.

So yes, we source that from China.

We've worked really hard over the last couple of years.

I think really COVID was the wake up call for our business.

Like, we cannot source this stuff overseas and, and just have a reliable, even just the imports and getting stuck at the, at it on the water, you know, whatever it might be.

So.

Long story short, I think with this, the, the, we, we don't have a huge impact, but our category does.

So our business itself is great, but our category is impacted by these things.

Um, less so a little bit from, from Mexico and China.

It's more so just a lot of companies that sell things in Mexico and China for our category.

But I think just in general here, the way to look at this is, um, for, for, you know, love him or hate him, Donald Trump, you can, we we've known him for a while as a culture, right?

And so you can kind of predict some of these things.

So, I mean, he wrote that book, the art of the deal, and I think it was published in late 18 or 1987.

I think it was, and it's really, I mean, fascinating again, if you hate him, whatever it is, it's

the playbook he's using today.

Exactly.

It's the, it's the playbook.

And so my point in that is like, it's not, this stuff's actually not complicated.

You can tell what he's going to do.

And if you haven't figured it out yet, I mean, you got to get used to this because I don't think this is going to go anywhere.

He does this stuff all the time.

And I guess where I don't lose sleep over things like this with the economy is that this guy is a capitalist at heart.

He's a builder, he's a developer.

So when it comes to the economy, I don't think we have to be You know, too, uh, afraid of him not looking out for our best interest.

So that's where, that's where, you know, I, I look at this, it's like, we've seen this before.

It's not the first time he's been the president.

We know how he's going to handle these things.

Um, and lo and behold, you can tell, I mean, just again, taking a big step back, you can tell.

The heavier 25 percent tariffs were on Canada and Mexico.

The less 10 percent tariff was on China.

Why?

Because China hit right back with another tariff because there's a deeper, massive, uh, supply chain at play with China.

Whereas he knows he can play a little bit more with Mexico and Canada.

So we put the 25 percent tariff.

Does that make sense?

So, I mean,

but leaving it aside that, that example.

Yeah.

I think of, uh, his style, maybe, and it's in The Art of the Deal.

Yep.

It comes out with, like, a huge, uh, shocking thing, uh, that is, you know, maybe not all that possible, but he states it.

And really what I think he's doing is trying to open the Overton window broader so that more things, more, more negotiating deal points are now on the table.

And then he comes back and tries to get a deal for himself or in this case for our country.

Um, I think that's the sort of, uh, pattern that he's Yep.

It's a pattern, and I mean, you can talk about it all day, but like, Americans that aren't used to this yet, like, get used to it.

I don't think it's going to go anywhere.

I'm just, just to be plain, whether you love him or hate him, it is what it is, and it's totally to be expected.

This is a story from the Wall Street Journal.

The terrorists caused a, almost a 3 percent drawdown in stocks on Monday.

Uh, but then they came back, as you're saying, like when he's ended up negotiating with China, I mean, uh, not China, Canada and Mexico, the summary came back.

And he's doing this over the weekend.