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Understanding the Book of Daniel is a thought-provoking podcast that explores one of the Bible’s most mysterious and powerful books. Each episode dives deep into the historical context, prophetic visions, and spiritual lessons found in Daniel—revealing how its timeless truths speak directly to the challenges we face in the modern world.
Whether you're navigating uncertainty, seeking courage in the face of adversity, or looking for spiritual insight in a chaotic age, this podcast connects ancient wisdom to contemporary life. Join us as we uncover how Daniel’s faith, resilience, and revelations offer guidance, hope, and clarity for today’s journey.
Peter Englert: Welcome to the Between Two Sermons Podcast with a collaboration of the Understanding Daniel Podcast. My name is Peter Englert. I'm one of the pastors at Browncroft Community Church. We are in a series on Daniel and on November 9th I'm preaching a message on Daniel 9. And instead of doing our regular discussion about this chapter, I wanted to invite my friend, former or retired professor emeritus, ah, Ron Pierce here. Because Ron loves the Book of Daniel.
Ron Pierce: Oh, I do, yes. Thank you. It's good to be with you again.
Peter Englert: It's good to be with you too. Well, Ron, where I want to get started with you is Daniel. nine is a very pivotal, passage in the whole book, basically. In some ways, if we don't have it, the book wouldn't necessarily say falls apart, but there's definitely things that we miss. Why is Daniel9 so important to the whole story of Daniel?
Ron Pierce: Yeah, Daniel nine fits of course, in the latter part of the book. it is one of two, visitation chapters where an angel comes to talk to Daniel, but it also sits kind of in between chapter 8 and in chapters 10 through 12 as a centerpiece there. So you have the narratives, 1 through 6, which most everybody's familiar with. We've heard the Sunday school stories, but then when we get in the apocalyptic visions, sometimes it gets terribly speculative as to how we're going to apply them. Where, there's a good bit of controversy as to exactly where Daniel9 is focused. Does it fit with the rest of the apocalyptic visions focusing more on the Greek period, or is it the one that reaches us way out to the Roman period? So I think that's probably why it gets so much press, because it is the one chapter that seems to pull us out, and then bring us to a new place. And there's a lot of controversy as to what that place is, how much it has to do with Jesus and the kingdom very specifically, or whether it has to do with his suffering in the Jewish people. That's already being talked about in chapter seven and eight and then again in 10 through 12. Yeah.
Peter Englert: So before we get started and kind of walking through the text because you can preach us, you could probably do six or seven sermons in Daniel nine and not capture it. But if, if I was a first century, or an old, I should say Old Testament person reading the Book of Daniel, what would I be feeling and expect experiencing while I read it?
Ron Pierce: You mean like when you come to chapter nine in that reading? Yeah. I think what strikes Me in Daniel 9 is not so much that feeling of leaping off into the future someplace, although that's there. And Gabriel's cryptic little statement at the end certainly leaves us with a great deal of mystery. But, something I missed for a long time in Daniel 9 was the almost priestly role that Daniel takes in the chapter. So we know him as Daniel the prophet, and then we know him as the good little boy and the good old man who gets delivered from the lions. but here Daniel is pleading for. For his people. And that. That's a priest, not a prophet in this context. So that's what strikes me. That's what captures me. And I think, if we don't jump over that long prayer of Daniel and go right to the juicy little statement at the end about the weeks number of years, but if we allow ourselves to read through that, we hear the heart of Daniel in a way that I don't think we see it anyplace else in the book. So it's really special in that way. It's kind of a holy of holies for Daniel.
Peter Englert: I love that. Well, that brings us to. Let's kind of walk through the passage together again. I have your commentary here. Teach the text. And it's actually a lot of fun as a pastor who's got to preach this message than to sit down with someone who's really done the Hebrew. The. The first place that I kind of want to start is just on a surface level. You know, if you're reading the passage, you would go Daniel 9:1:3. And then Daniel, the prayer is 4 to 19. And then Gabriel's response is 20 to 27. You actually organize the passage, Daniel 9:1:6, which is part of the prayer. Why did you organize it that way? And then let's talk about some of the intricacies of the context.
Ron Pierce: Yeah, I, I kept chapter or verses three through six connected with the first three first, two verses one and two, because we have this, this confession that starts it off. And then there's the plea for mercy. So. But it's that confession, and it seems to tie together with Daniel's reading of his. His old friend Jeremiah. I think Daniel actually knew Jeremiah, as a young boy, listened to Jeremiah preach, at least when he was still in Jerusalem. and Jeremiah had made a prediction about these 70 years of captivity, and Daniel 9 comes. It's dated at the end of those 70 years. So I think Daniel is getting kind of excited. But he also realizes, thinking back on Jeremiah, and elsewhere, that the restoration is probably conditioned to a certain degree on Judah's repentance. And see, I think Daniel is aware that the Jewish people in captivity at this point, he's getting close to his 80 year marker at this point. So he's an old man. I think he's aware that the Jewish people in captivity have not really changed a lot from the people who got them from, for the kind of people that got them into captivity. So I think Daniel is concerned. So he's reading Jeremiah, he's reading about the 77s, and he says, okay, we're getting to the end of the 70 year. reading about the 70s, 70 years. We're getting to the end of the 70 years. I'm not really confident if God's going to restore us because we've been kind of miserable people here in captivity. And as godly as Daniel is, I love the fact that he identifies with the people. It's not those people have been terrible, but we have been terrible. and so, yeah, I think that's what catches my attention and it takes us right through. in verses five and six, we have sinned, we've done wrong, we've acted wickedly, we've rebelled, turned aside from the commandments, we've not listened to the prophets, to you, O Lord. Now he turns and I think then chapter seven then begins the priestly prayer where now he's going to go to God and say, but dear Lord, is there any way we can negotiate here? I mean, is there anything we can do about this horrible judgment? Because I'd really, I mean, he's not going to go home. I don't think Daniel ever does go home. but he realizes that that younger generation of people born in captivity may or may not get fully restored. He doesn't know, I think, at this point. And so he pleads for God for a full restoration. And that's where the I've got good news, bad news comes from Gabriel when he shows up.
Peter Englert: Yeah, well, so that what, what I think I hear you saying, because I think this is important to understand the passage is, you know, the kind of the surface break for us is at 1, 1 to 3, because it's the context. And what you see is, and this is some of the stuff that you brought up, which I think is important. Number one, you know, this is the time of King Darius, which Daniel in the lion's den in chapter six is that time. So we assume that Daniel's in his 80s. and then on top of that, you mentioned Jeremiah, most Scholars, and I'd love to hear your thoughts, would say it's Jeremiah 25 and 29, where. That's where the reference of the 70 years and what you're saying is this one, the first six verses organized together in a way of. Daniel is getting to the end of his life and he's were led into one of his prayers. And in Jeremiah, you know, he remembers this promise of 70 years. And he knows that it's got to start with confession because he's not sure that Judah, which is the southern, country of Israel, southern part of Israel, has fully confessed or repented. Is that kind of how you frame it or what. What else would you add in there?
Ron Pierce: Yeah, no, I think that's. That's exactly where he's going. Matter of fact, I would even push. Push it a little further. He's. I think Daniel's pretty well convinced that Judah has not. He's not just afraid they might not have repented enough. I think he's saying, we're a mess here. And I was just rereading Jeremiah and he said, when you return, repent that I'm going to restore your captivity. and I think he assumes, he assumes that sense of conditionality because repentance is always part of the promise. so, yeah, so I think he's worried it's a pastoral thing, a priestly thing. It's, maybe an old fatherly thing at this point for the Daniel who never was a father to his own children, feels a little bit of an old, maybe even grandfatherly, feel for his people. Judah.
Peter Englert: I love that. And I think that that sets up the prayer. And I think something that you just said there that's pretty powerful is, because when you read the prayer, it's not like he asks necessarily for, like a specific restoration. And this kind of brings us into the rest of the prayer. He. It, you know, his call is to have mercy. Now this is where I'd love to kind of interact with you about the rest of the prayer from 7 to 19, because, you know, the Lord's Prayer that's in the beat or that's in the Sermon on the Mount and that's in the book of Luke. You know, that's a prescriptive prayer. You know, that that's a prayer that we can pray. Daniel, nine is a little bit more of a descriptive prayer where I think whether, you know, it's you as a scholar, other scholars, there's this pattern of invocation which is appealing, to the character of God. There's confession, which we've talked about, you know, confessing the same shame in the sins. And then there's the petition, which is. Or supplication, which is the actual request. So how do you see these aspects of prayer play into Daniel's prayer in Daniel 9?
Ron Pierce: Well, I think that you find them all there. You, find Daniel. It is descriptive, but I don't want the idea of it being descriptive to become too distant. He's not simply describing out there. This is, we have sinned. and everything we know about Daniel, he was a pretty decent fellow, but he puts himself in the place of these sinful people. and I don't think he expects a great deal because of the sinfulness of the people. So, yeah, he just throws himself on the mercy of God. Please, you know, please forgive, please pardon, please, for your sake, please forgive. Not even because of us. and then, yeah, we'll get to that. But then there's this sort of interruption by Gabriel. I think Daniel's kind of caught mid breath, frustrated, not knowing if there's anybody listening, you know, dear, dear Lord, are you out there? Did you listen? Did you hear? And then Gabriel shows up and that whole thing envelops or unfolds. Yeah, that gets interesting at that point, the way Gabriel responds to Daniel.
Peter Englert: Well, and before we leave to go there, because that's where most people get stuck. And when I said descriptive, I probably didn't clarify as well. This isn't a prayer for us today, necessarily in 2025, for us to read a prayer necessarily in church. there's aspects of it that we would do, whereas the Lord's Prayer, we say it in church, but there's something about how Daniel prays that's powerful. And, you know, just to kind of start, like, Daniel talks, about God's loving kindness. He talks about him being righteous and just, and he appeals. He says. He says what a, lot of the prophets and the priests say, which is, you brought us out of the land, out of Egypt. And you what. What are some of your observations about how Daniel addresses God based on his character?
Ron Pierce: Yeah, I think, it is a prayer of passion, a prayer of a deep concern. And so the Lord's Prayer is a bit more liturgical. and even though it has those moments, you know, forgive us, we forgive other people, this is a desperate prayer. It's a dark place that Daniel goes into to seek the mercy of God. And as I said, I'm not sure he really expects a positive outcome from it. So he's sort of hoping against hope, pleading, dear God, is there any, any way you can maybe do this, even though we really don't deserve it at all? and you'd be completely just if you didn't. But is there any possibility? So, yeah, it's the passion of that that I think captures me in the prayer. And that does make it a bit hard for us as we pray. And we may be in a situation like that and this prayer could really fit well, but it's not that often we find ourselves in this kind of desperate place, and to be able to say, God, I don't deserve anything from you today. I mean, there's a sort of theological sense and of course we don't deserve anything from God. But there are some days we have really been awful, and we don't even expect God's mercy to come through. We only expect judgment. And yet I think Daniel had that spark of hope deep down inside where he knew God was merciful. And therefore he's going to hope against hope, plead for the outside possibility that God could even show mercy under these extreme circumstances. So we don't see much by way of a historical description of the people in captivity. this gives us a bit of a glimpse into them and it's not a very encouraging glimpse. I mean, we know the people are in a bad place and therefore God puts them into captivity. But once they're there, we just don't have a lot of narrative about it. Esther gives us a little bit of that, but that's later on historically. That's not at this point during the 70 years in particular. So, yeah, this is an indictment against the people, and yet an indictment that comes with that extreme mercy.
Peter Englert: Before we leave to go to the rest of it. So when we think about it actually says, like in the translation, Daniel petitioned supplication. And like, I think, ah, as a 21st century reader of the prayer, you're, you're sitting there and you're like, you might be able to pick up on some of these things. And I think it's helpful of what you said, which is, you know, Daniel's trying to hope against all hope. you know, Daniel doesn't necessarily believe that there's much that they can do, but his main ask of God is to have mercy. Is there anything else that you think Daniel is asking of God in this prayer?
Ron Pierce: Yeah, well, implicitly at least, he is saying the 70 years are about up. Can we be sure we're going home, the people are going Home. and for Daniel, I think it's only because of his age that he. He doesn't go home. So he's just too old to travel, I think, is what the deal for Daniel is. but I think that's the implicit request not just to have mercy in general or even just to forgive in general, but it's forgive, take us back to the land, Restore all the shame and degradation we experience because of our sin, restore Judah and Jerusalem. At this point, I think that's the implication that he wants to make sure God does that. And I think to do it now, within the next year or two. I mean, if you count the exact years, you're getting pretty close to a year or so, and they should be heading home. So it's a timely prayer, and he's put kind of a clock on God. Can you do it now?
Peter Englert: Well, that. That's a great segue. Now let's get. I think. I think kind of you outlining the passion of the prayer where Daniel is actually, and even just bringing up the timing. God, Jeremiah said 70 years. Now walk us through. Gabriel comes in verse 20, and we'll. We'll start with the 70 years, and then we'll talk about the Anointed One. But let's. Let's start with the 70 years. This is apocalyptic literature. so, you know, you mentioned before, which I think is helpful for our listeners, not that there was conditions, but even Jeremiah was saying, if my people repent and confess. And there's. Daniel is realizing maybe they haven't. and that might be a kind way to say it, but talk us through Gabriel's response and even the significance of the numbers.
Ron Pierce: Yeah, I think to. To feel the tension that Gabriel steps into when he shows up. And it's like, I'm sorry I'm late.
Peter Englert: There's.
Ron Pierce: There's a bit of a tension there. When he says, he came to me in swift flight, it's time of the evening sacrifice. there's this kind of.
Peter Englert: He.
Ron Pierce: He got there right at the last minute. So I think the reader is supposed to feel that tension. And the way Daniel writes this, of course, Daniel's this incredible writer in the way he pulls things together. so it's while I'm speaking, while I'm praying, while I'm confessing my sin, sin of my people. And you'll notice he uses Israel over and over again, not just Judah and Jerusalem. So. So I think Daniel now is sort of widening his view and saying, the whole nation of Israel, not just the southern kingdom. The whole nation of Israel is in sin. He lumps them together a bit, which didn't please Judeans or, the Jewish people at this point. But I'm still pleading, I'm still asking. I'm still asking for a restoration of Jerusalem. I mean, he keeps repeating it. And then he says, gabriel, oh, that one that I'd seen at the first came flying in. He came to me in swift flight, like he. I get the feeling like he just almost showed up late. And Daniel wasn't sure if he's even going to get an answer to this prayer. and then Gabriel says, which I don't know how I feel when Gabriel says this. At the beginning of your pleas for mercy, a word went out. And I can imagine Daniel saying, you mean like when I started, like all this pleading wasn't necessary. and yeah, to a certain degree, I mean, nothing you're saying surprised God in this context. He's been watching. He knows, and I've come to tell it to you. And then the strange part. You are greatly loved. now I wonder why he says this. I think it's because I've got good news and bad news for you. and it's going to feel like mostly bad news, but it's nothing against you. So Daniel is pleading for the people, but he's doing it in a way that, that he includes himself. And Gabriel says, you are really loved, Daniel. I think that that's an easy thing for us to miss in this context because we get all wrapped up in the speculation about numbers and who fits whom. but Daniel's the beloved, and Gabriel warmly encourages him, but then says, I've got bad news. I love you, brother, but I've got bad news. and then the numbers all come in. And again, I don't want to lose the personal thing. Through the whole chapter. I want us to feel the passion of Daniel before. I want us to feel the love of God through Gabriel to Daniel. And then to keep the. That emotional people centered part with us when we look at the numbers. So we don't just say, okay, let's talk about numbers and see who fits whom. but we say, no, this. When Daniel's listening to that, he's probably trying to figure some numbers out too. But I don't think he was too worried about calculating numbers. I think Daniel got the idea of what was being said and he doesn't respond. We have nothing from Daniel at the end of this. So I'm thinking, I'm glad Gabriel told him he loved him, because Daniel's just kind of left speechless. We don't have anything from him. And then we go into a whole new thing with chapters 10 through 12.
Peter Englert: Yeah, so I think that that's helpful with the numbers part because, you know, the 70 weeks, what does it mean? And you know, even in your commentary and you know, other people's commentary, like John Walton and Wendy Witter and I'd encourage, I'd encourage. Or Trumper Longman, I'd encourage people to check those out. You know, they're like, well, you know, was it this year or was it that year? You know, in Daniel's mind, he's just saying, hey, I don't know when it is. The 70 years are probably going to be up. and all of this frames, you know, Gabriel's response. So how does, how does Gabriel respond not just I love you, but what is Gabriel trying to say to Daniel with these numbers in apocalyptic literature, knowing that Judah hasn't held up their end of the bargain?
Ron Pierce: Yeah, well, I really think it's captured in the old phrase, I've got good news, bad news. I mean, the good news is there will be some kind of restoration. The bad news is, and this is just think of Daniel, the old man and Judah, even the two generations represented there. it's not going to be anytime soon. So now we find out that there is a little something that comes soon. The people actually do return to the land, but there's no kingdom given back to them. They remain subjugated to other nations from this point on. They never really, except for a tiny little thing in the Greek period under the Maccabees where we have some independent Judah, even that one might question. they don't get David's kingdom back. They don't get that free Jerusalem back. the rededication of the temple doesn't come for a long time. Ezra, Nehemiah, kind of struggle in the context of that. So I think that's what's going on here. We've got good news, bad news. the good news is you will pass to go home. There will be some semblance. So God says, okay, this generation, they go home. But there's a much bigger picture that. And I'll, ah, throw this in as well to put the context that's consistent with chapter 7, 8, or especially chapter 8 and chapters 10 through 12, in the sort of Hebrew, Aramaic divisions of the book, chapters 8, 7. Excuse me, chapters 8, 9 and 10 through 12 are all in Aramaic again, or. And I'm sorry. In Hebrews, they have Hebrew, Aramaic, Hebrew. so they're set apart, and this sets right in the middle of them. And chapter eight is a dark chapter, which leaves Daniel, like he can't even sleep. He can't go to work. He's in bad shape. And then chapters 10 through 2012 are pretty dark, except for a little glimpse at the very end, which we won't jump ahead to, but the end of chapter 12. And this sets right in the middle of that darkness. Yeah. So, yeah, that's why I think it's like a holy of holies, but it's a holy place where the priest is going into the darkness to plead with God in that holy place. And he's alone, just like a high priest would be alone in the holy of holies. I think Daniel is priest alone. Yeah.
Peter Englert: So before we go to the anointed one. And who's. Who's that pointing to? you know, some commentators talk about, this idea of jubilee. So in, you know, in the Torah, they talk about the, the. That every seven years there's, you know, some giving back the land, but on the 49th to the 50th year, there's, ah, you know, everything goes back to the families and things like that. And, you know, again, coming back to the symbolism, you know, the 70 years, you know, how Jeremiah talked about it in his literature, there is a mild difference in this apocalyptic genre. But then they talk about 70 years and more. How does all of that play together? And again, not to perfect the 70 years and the weeks and the timing, but just some of the symbols or what those numbers represent in Gabriel's response as we see it.
Ron Pierce: Yeah, Israel's. The symbolism of Israel or Judah going into captivity is that for they've. They've neglected symbol 70 Sabbath years. And because of that, God will Now take those 70 years back. They will not be in the land, able to work the land for 70 years straight because they've been ignoring these Sabbath years. The Sabbath years become symbolic. So I think that's where the 77 number comes from in this context, because you have 70 Sabbaths, Sabbath comes every seven years. So 70 times seven. and so the people are forced to give it a rest, give the land a rest, because they've been taken out of. Would have been quite easy, especially the way the Book of Daniel is so clearly dated with so many of the chapters in the third year of this king. And it would have been really easy to say 490 years and then 70 years. But they use instead this weak number, this seven. A number, a collection of sevens. It's even hard to translate. So sometimes it's translated weeks or just seventy sevens. And in the Hebrew, the word for week and the word for seven are pretty much the same word, so it could be either one. and so weeks, just remember, just captures this idea of a collection of seven. so I think at the outset, we should be careful not to be too precise in the way we calculate this out. And I think that's where evangelicals tend to make a mistake with this, is that we get our calculators out and then we start looking for details, and we want to connect those details to these details. And my scheme works a little better than your scheme. And so now we get in these arguments about what's pointing to what. I don't think this chapter was intended or this little paragraph was intended to be read that way. I think it's three units of time. A short one long, long one, and then a very short one at the end. and. And that's good enough. I mean, that's the way Daniel likes to keep it.
Peter Englert: He.
Ron Pierce: He likes rounded numbers. He likes mysterious symbolic numbers all through the book. and so I, I don't think this is any different than that.
Peter Englert: So I think that I, love your point because I think it's helpful when reading the Bible. You know, in the beginning of, like, most of the books in Daniel, it's like a. In Darius's third year, in Belshazzar's, and like here, when you'd think it's specific. And again, part of it is. Do I understand the genre of apocalyptic literature versus narrative? I think that that's important. But then, you know, what is Daniel actually trying to communicate? Where even the chapter starts with, hey, I've calculated we're pretty close to the 70 years, give or take. God, I plead for mercy. But that kind of brings us to the end of the chapter, which it's this reference to this Anointed One. And before we jump to what we. Who we think the Anointed One was, what might Daniel be thinking as he's listening to Gabriel make this announcement about the Anointed One at the end of the chapter.
Ron Pierce: Yeah, it's. It's really the only place the terminology shows up. So we can't, like, look to the other vision that talked about the Anointed One, and we might expect it to have come back in the furnace vision or the furnace experience, where one, like a son of man shows up in the furnace. this. I, I think it's an angel, something. It's Jesus showing up. but we might expect something, but. But no, he keeps it quite ambiguous. It's three ideas that are represented with symbolic numbers that play off the idea of Sabbath. Yeah. And so I, I think that's what people. That's what Daniel wanted people to get this. The three basic ideas of the eras, rather than to try to calculate the exact times. I also think that we have chapter seven and eight, and I'm thinking especially eight because it falls into the same collection of chapters, where we have symbols and where we have. And no specific numbers except the year that it happened, in the year of Belshazzar. But we have symbols and we have this kind of dark ending where Daniel's disturbed and troubled. And so this chapter plays right off of that one in the sequence. So maybe that should give us a little hint as to what to expect. Or maybe that sets us up a little bit to read it in a certain way. So if we keep it connected with chapter eight, it's more helpful for me.
Peter Englert: Well, let's. So I think what I'm hearing you say is, you know, stick with the deeper truths as opposed to trying to figure out the surface area of that. And so, you know, I'm thinking we. We've talked about a lot. and again, I'd really encourage everybody to check out the commentary because you. You go deeper into it and, you know, what. What impressions do you think people should be leaving after reading this chapter? about their own personal lives.
Ron Pierce: Yeah, that's. That's really a challenging question because you are left with this mystery. and the mystery is complex and there's no resolution. We don't have Daniel saying, and I was sick and tired from the three days, could go to work, or something like that. There's no resolution whatsoever. We're just on the wing of abominations comes one who makes desolate until the decree is poured out in a desolator. Amen. So it's shocking almost, the way we're dropped off. So what should we take from this? well, first, I think it's important for us to realize that there's a pretty good argument to be made for this being more messianic and referring to Jesus. And also I take the different view in my commentary where I think it's referring to a high priest who's anointed at the time of the Maccabees. and that's the suffering the Jewish People face, which connects more with church. Chapter eight, and again, chapters ten through twelve. but I think we are set up, to come away feeling the weight of this rather than to be excited about the debate. I mean, I'm old enough that I grew up in the prophecy era of evangelicalism. So we had prophecy conferences and we had charts on prophecy, and the dispensationalists and the amillennialists were on either side debating with each other. and, yeah, we got a little overwhelmed with books that had a lot of charts in them for prophecy. I think that's the tragedy that happens here is we get so caught up in the debate of, which seven goes where and even who the Anointed One is. And that's. I mean, if that really is Jesus coming. This is a really important chapter. but I think the emphasis is not on the Anointed One. That's part of the story, but it's not a huge emphasis in this. We are left with desolation, and we are left with mystery. Yeah. And more so than we were in chapter eight. Less mystery, but a lot of desolation. And then, of course, in chapters 10 through 12, we have a glimpse of resurrection at the end. But even that doesn't get the kind of detail that we want to put with this. We really want the chart on this one. and I think it's. I'll throw this in, too. I think it's a little bit sad that we fight so aggressively over the details of this chapter. yeah. in the commentary that you'd referenced, the one that I did with Teach the text, it was okay for us to have an opinion on what this was, but the point of the commentary was to sort of just give the best basic idea and provide a resource for pastors who are preaching, rather than for scholars who are debating the 77s. That really helped me in approaching this. John Walton was the editor, of course, in that. And he held our feet to the fire, pardon the pun, in Daniel, that. Yeah, you can do a little bit of that, but not too much. we really want to know what this is saying to the average person who's reading the book.
Peter Englert: Yeah. And, you know, I think, as I've been kind of thinking about it, what impressions. you know, number one, you know, just even whether you debate the Anointed One, whether it's Jesus or someone else, you know, the fact that we say that Daniel acts as a priest, it. It's not that far to see that in the New Testament, Jesus intercedes. He's in some ways as the Jesus storybook Bible, the better Daniel who intercedes on behalf of us. And then you go to Romans 8, that the Holy Spirit is interceding. And I think that that's the power of these connected themes. And, you know, I just, I, I, love the way you're talking about the ending, that it doesn't resolve. You know, it's not this glorious, encouraging picture. But I think as a pastor, where I point to, that's a lot of life. You know, that's life is, you know, we have these desperate prayers that God says no or not yet. you know, and, you know, I think about. And again, you can correct me, we might edit this out, I think about cancer. You know, we pray a desperate prayer for God to heal someone from cancer. And sometimes God radically heals them, and other times, you know, they pass away. And, you know, even, you know, to kind of a dotted line to us in America is, you know, we can pray this prayer like Daniel saying, hey, I'm part of the individual sins that are here, but we have sins as a nation. you know, and I think it's, it's a powerful prayer for us to step in, to not just be like Daniel, but to be like Jesus, intercessor on our behalf, but also to realize there's a ton of human brokenness and sin, that we're not going to experience the fullness of restoration until Jesus returns again.
Ron Pierce: Yeah, absolutely. And I think we, we can go back here to the opening comment from Gabriel. Daniel, you are dearly loved, but I'm going to. How would we say it? I'm going to dump all this on you. I'm going to lay this heavy burden of vision on you, where you're looking to the future and you're praying for forgiveness and restoration and all the good stuff. Here's this dark picture of the future. God bless you. Have a good night. Except he doesn't even say, God bless you. Have a good night. It's just, here's this dark picture of the future. and for us, when we feel the desperation that can come, especially when, when we think God should really heal this person from cancer. And this dear, dear, dear, dearly beloved brother or sister dies. It doesn't mean we aren't dearly loved. so I think he clings to that. We don't know what Daniel's reaction was, but I doubt that he stayed up with his calculator trying to figure out the number. Numbers I think Daniel saw that and said, desolation, abominable desolation. an end to sacrifice and offering. Who is this anointed one?
Ron Pierce: And I. I think it goes back to two things. Pleading that God will forgive us. Pleading a hope against. Hope against. And I heard the man of God, Gabriel, come and say to me, I am dearly loved. And I think he went to bed with that, that night, knowing that God really loves him. And by extension, God loves God's people. yeah. Even though the end is complicated and maybe foreboding. Yeah.
Peter Englert: Well, there's no way to end a podcast on Daniel.
Ron Pierce: There is not. No, not on this one. No.
Peter Englert: This one. But, Ron, thank you for joining us. you know, I would encourage you to take this to your small group, whether you're doing an individual study, of Daniel. But again, we wanted to help you understand this pivotal chapter, and we, we thank you for joining us.