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First Things First by The First Things First Alaska Foundation (FTFAF) is broadcast monthly on KINY on Saturday at 9 a.m. and on KJNO on Sunday at 9 a.m. Each episode explores the balance Alaskans face: protecting our state's rugged beauty and vast wilderness while advocating for sustainable economic growth through responsible natural resource management.
With thousands of jobs lost in the past decades due to restrictive regulations, First Things First raises vital questions about the future of Alaska’s economy. Can we preserve our cherished landscapes, waterways, and wildlife while fostering prosperity for generations to come?
Join FTFAF as we explore essential areas for Southeast Alaska’s growth—highlighting education, advocacy, and smart development.
It is that time once again for the First Things First podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. And if you wanna find out more about First Things First, well, take a listen or listen to previous podcasts over at kinyradio.com. I am Dano sitting across from me. We gotta do the big welcome.
Speaker 1:Don Haviger. He is your executive director of First Things First, and we're bringing in more board members this time around. We got Mac Miners hanging out on the other mic across from me, and then we have Joe Geldof too, local attorney, been around since 1979. So he knows a thing or two about Juneau, and we're really excited to dive in this week because we gotta ask the big question here. And it's kind of been looming all around the headlines of newspapers around Alaska and even in the Lower 48.
Speaker 1:Guys, here's the big question to kinda crack this open today. Is Juno affordable? And given everything that's been going on lately with taxes and mill rates and everything else, I'd say it's a big topical question, Don, and I know you really wanted to talk about it this week.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We've seen it in, as you said, in the national news, we've seen a lot of articles recently in local news. And so I think it's just an opportune time to bring up the issue. In fact, we have some ballot measures that address affordability according to the sponsors of those measures. They're going to be on the October ballot.
Speaker 2:So, this discussion sort of keys up what's gonna happen in the near future for Juneau. But before I do that, I just wanna take a moment to remind our listeners that the First Things First Alaska Foundation right there on their website which is ftfakfoundation.org announces that we focus on a strong economy. And so, in past episodes, we talked about some things like tourism. How do we grow tourism? We talked about Eagle Crest.
Speaker 2:Can we make Eagle Crest a better summertime activity? We also brought in Huna Totem Corporation and their Auk Landing and just talked about growing that sector. So, we're into growth as well. We have this affordability issue. Is it a speed bump in the road of Juno's growth?
Speaker 2:So, that's what we're gonna talk about, Dan and that's why I've invited the guests that we have today.
Speaker 1:Where do you start with that? Because I moved here about five years ago and this is probably where I'm gonna show my age right here. I'm in my forties and from what I can tell, I'm a demographic that is needed in Juneau. And especially ranging from twenties, thirties, forties because from what we can tell and especially seems to be the big thing in these articles is the demographic in Juneau and where that demographic is going guys. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 3:Well, as we get older, like myself, I'm 73 going on 74. And I've been here a few days and I've seen the transition of how hard it was to get a house in the very beginning because there weren't any. And so the interest rates were very high and they came up with an affordable program and I didn't qualify but my wife did. I was working on the North Slope, I made more money than the banker. They told me, no, you can't get a loan because you work construction.
Speaker 3:Things have changed, believe me.
Speaker 1:And obviously this population has been aging Mac like you said, and we're kind of at a point now where how do we attract these newer people in there? And obviously do we do that through tourism? Do we do that through mining? How do we get this younger population in here? And how does a population aging out truly affect Juneau?
Speaker 3:Well, they don't spend as much money. Well, they have the money to spend. But you don't want to spend it all on taxes. Of course, your house costs a lot of money getting materials here like food and the sewer and all that other stuff that takes what it takes to have monthly income to spend on. So when you talk about younger people getting houses, if they don't have help from their parents or have a good job or get a good start and things, it's pretty tough to live here.
Speaker 1:I couldn't afford my first house until I was 27 I think or almost 28 is when I was actually able, I had enough credit, was able to afford my first house. Could a 27 year old do that here in Juneau? It might be a little hard considering the median price here.
Speaker 3:Well depends on what you do. You're a barista, it might be kind of tough. If you're a electrician, it might be easier. So the skill trades are kind of where it's at as far as being able to afford something.
Speaker 4:If the issue is whether Juno is affordable or not, The jury's in on that. We already know the answer. Juneau is not an affordable place for people in their 20s, 30s and sometimes 40s.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you just came out and said it.
Speaker 4:Well, the real issue here is what are we gonna do if anything about it? Right now we have a city and borough assembly who talk a lot about affordability and never really do anything actively or significantly to do it. The response is, well let's hire somebody to study affordability. When it comes down to where the bullet hits the bone is are we going to lower the taxes which includes property taxes? Are we going to lower as people have proposed and which will be on the ballot?
Speaker 4:Are we going to eliminate the sales tax on food for groceries and on utilities? The city didn't do it. Our elected officials did not do that. It took the citizens initiative to reach a point where there'll actually be an opportunity for the voters this October to make Juneau more affordable. In fact, the city and borough assembly is actually working in a contrary way with this latest gimmicky proposal to shift the tax burden and they're all talking and Twitter pated about well we're going to really tax the tourists during the summer and then we're going to lower it in the winter for the residents.
Speaker 4:What's the split? It'll be three and then it'll be seven. It's a very gimmicky thing. Here's the deal. It has not been stress tested.
Speaker 4:They are making this up on the fly. They have no idea and it's all a quest, a desire, a burning desire to get more money that they can spend. Because it turns out our local assembly, like a lot of politicians, see it all over Alaska, see it in the nation, it's more fun to spend money, especially if it's not your money, than it is to do targeted cuts, to do the hard analysis. What do we really need here? And the city and borough assembly is usurping the role of churches, civic groups, individual business owners who used to pick up the slack and fund things like the ice hockey travel team or the wrestling traveling team or give money to the symphony and everything.
Speaker 4:And our politicians want your money so that they can spend it the way they think it ought to be spent. And that's wrong and we need to get back to what do we really need to do here and how can we make Juneau more affordable? Well getting rid of the sales tax on groceries is a great start. Getting rid of the sales tax on utilities is a next step and people will
Speaker 2:have an opportunity in what October, Don? In October, absolutely. It will be on the municipal ballot. Also, let's go back to demographics a little bit and just the challenge of living in Juneau. Our fine organization, the Juneau Economic Development Council recently worked with our mining industry and asked those that work here at the local mine but choose to reside out of state why they don't choose Juneau as a home.
Speaker 2:And so, this report came out recently and here are the top reasons that minors don't move to Juneau or don't bring their families here and that is that age demographic that we so sorely need in this community. And here's number one, affordability of single family housing. In fact, Juneau has the highest single family housing cost in the state of Alaska and that's exactly what the state of Alaska's trend magazine July issue says. Here's number two, going back to the minors, cost of living. The same thing that we're talking about, the same thing that we as community members struggle with.
Speaker 2:Affordability of rental housing. And then number four, for a minor choosing to live outside of this state. Affordability of a condominium or duplex. So, it's all housing, cost of living. You could add groceries to that because again groceries, I think we have the second highest grocery cost across the nation and this is out of the trend magazine.
Speaker 2:And so we're known for a lot of things and high cost of living we're known for, which is unfortunate. And I think to Joe's point, why citizens decided that we need to make a change.
Speaker 1:As I'm sitting here looking at Zillow right now, I had to look this up because you figure a family that coming in here, they're gonna take out a loan. They want what? A three bedroom house, two, two and a half bath, maybe 2,000 square foot somewhere in there. You look that up on Zillow right now and feel free to do this listeners out there. There's maybe 10 homes that aren't condos that actually fit this mold.
Speaker 1:Yeah. If that.
Speaker 2:Lot of people want Give us some prices Dan. What Zillow is telling us
Speaker 1:I mean you can't go up Zillow prices. This is just showing It's the all 422417455. The 455 is a townhouse actually, three bedroom, two bath, 1,200 square feet.
Speaker 4:A lot of people they focus in on single family detached housings and that's nice. And that's kind of part of the American dream, the Alaskan dream. We have a more nuanced need for housing here. The common denominator needs to be affordable. We have high seasonality.
Speaker 4:People who come up here and welcome to Juneau. They're going to work here with the cruise industry or seasonally. They don't necessarily want a big house or everything. They want a nice secure place that's quiet and it could be ranging from 600 feet to 800 feet. A lot of people live here part time a year.
Speaker 4:Our mayor lives in Arizona quite a bit of the time. More power to her, more power to people who are older and have a home in Bend or Port Townsend or wherever they think. But Juneau has a lot of the wrong kind of housing for the demographics. There's not enough housing for people in their 20, 30 and 40 year olds and we've got way too many four and five bedroom houses with three car garages where people are living Arizona or Palm Springs part of the year. How do we make it more affordable?
Speaker 4:Well the single best thing we could do is replace the individual who is in charge of community development. We don't have a community development. We have a community obstruction department down there. Everybody's known that for years. The mayor knows it, the city manager knows it, and we keep trundling along with a bureaucracy that inhibits development of the right kind of housing whether it's small, medium, or large.
Speaker 4:That's a systemic problem that could be dealt with and needs to be dealt with.
Speaker 3:True, there is a staph infection and we need to really help get that taken care of. And I think it comes through our leadership and the city government which it's just kind of this friendly yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll give you a bunch of money you come here and live. But they really don't do the job that we want.
Speaker 4:Or that we need.
Speaker 1:Yes. In your guys' opinion, how do you change that then? Is it just someone that goes for it? Do you back someone that supports those values or?
Speaker 2:Well, if you go to some of the community meetings, at least the ones that I tend to gravitate toward, We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. Juno has a spending problem and I think that Joe talked about that earlier but unless we can start saying no to some of the things that and in fact I'll even do it this way. We have a category for first things first called needs and wants. Are there things that we absolutely must have? Should we fix our old dilapidated city hall for example?
Speaker 2:I would advocate that we do that. Should we buy a new one? Well, maybe that's a want or enters that category of want and in fact, I think the city voters said no. So, we need to be more discerning and not have the assembly reappropriate money to purchase or change the things or get new stuff when the voters have already said no. So, think those are some of the issues that we just have to address.
Speaker 2:We have to be cognizant of and it's okay to say no. My kids didn't get everything that they wanted when they asked and it's okay if government says no.
Speaker 4:Looking at the city and borough budget and leaving aside Bartlett which is a big driver, leaving aside the school district and even taking away some of the funds that largely come from the federal government for the airport. When you remove all the activities that can be categorized as being kind of not off budget but a discrete part of the budget and you get to the general services for snow plowing and all the activities, Juneau has a phenomenal amount of money we spend on a per capita basis. There is like no other community of 28,000 or 30,000 that spends as much money as we are. We are very luxurious in our general government spending And a lot of people are starting to question the value and utility of that and how it's related to affordability. I look back and you see during the pandemic there were huge amounts of money that were distributed by the Congress the executive branch, the federal executive branch.
Speaker 4:Juneau appears to have gotten hooked on these large tranches of money that were coming in and there's a certain desperate quality now among our current city and borough assembly, the mayor and everybody else down there, that became the new normal. They are desperate to continue that. Those federal funds and some of these other funds, state revenues, they're dried up There's a fundamental unwillingness down at 155 Heritage Way to think about cuts or right sizing government. They need to perpetuate that and they are looking at the individual taxpayers and property owners to make up for the diminished federal funding, diminished state funding. And that's not realistic and it's not sustainable.
Speaker 4:Do you
Speaker 1:feel there's accountability for that money? Absolutely not.
Speaker 4:The city of borough assembly congratulates themselves. They have outsourced a lot of the social services function and they've given large amounts of money to the Juneau Community Foundation. I'm good with that concept. Probably the Juneau Community Foundation is probably more efficient than having a number of bureaucrats and a division director and assistants and everything else to hand out money and evaluate where it should go. I'm not chipping my teeth about the Juno Community Foundation but having outsourced large amounts of money there doesn't appear to be a feedback loop where they can say they're not really getting the job done.
Speaker 4:They've been on the payroll here for a couple years and we're not reducing homelessness or we're not reducing whatever it is that's targeted in these social services area and we're going to stop. They still engage in direct funding of projects. The city invoked not once but twice was rebuffed by the voters and said we do not want to build a new city hall. They're in active discussions to buy two floors of the Burns Building right now at great cost, multi millions dollars, and they're already talking about how we need to get more property, get more parking and everything. I'll just end this so I don't sound like a rant completely here but there's a reason why Don's a great guy, he goes down there.
Speaker 4:Angela Rodell goes down to City Hall. Bob Jacobson went down the other night and they do. They're one out of a thousand. Nobody goes down anymore because they don't listen. They pretend they listen.
Speaker 4:They devote two minutes of stuff. They kind of sit there, our assembly and their eyes glaze over a little bit and then they do whatever they want and what the staff has cooked up. There's a reason why people aren't running for office. I mean look at this election. Uncontested races.
Speaker 4:People aren't running. People aren't participating. It's more better use of their time to pick up a pizza, go home and watch a streaming thing because not only is it not entertaining down there, it doesn't make a difference.
Speaker 1:I don't see it as a rant. I just kind of see that as some scary truths you're dropping right now here in this First Things First podcast. I'm sitting here right now with Don Habiger, executive director for First Things First. Joe Geldof, you just heard right there, local attorney. 1979, he's been around, knows a thing or two, and Mac Miner's on the board of First Things First.
Speaker 1:You can listen to these episodes over at kinyradio.com. So we go from population, we've talked about schooling, guess everything that plays into this. Guess where do we go from here? I mean if I was to get asked this question right now after hearing you guys, is Juno affordable? I'd kind of
Speaker 4:go, Meh. Well I want to just answer. Juneau is one of the most beautiful places in The United States. It's a great place even when it rains. There's splendid opportunity.
Speaker 4:The hiking here is fabulous even for an old guy like me. We have a wonderful little symphony. We even have a ragtag bowling alley. We have an arena. There are multiple things to do here.
Speaker 4:People like living here but people that like living here in their 20s and 30s are moving out because they can't afford to stay. And that's a fixable problem but only if there's people with the will and the skill to stop spending on stuff that we can't afford and don't need.
Speaker 3:Well, I think one of the big deals is maintenance. I mean I read in the paper yesterday where the high school needs two new boilers for their high school and just the lack of maintenance, that's the key. You've got what you have, got to keep maintain. But then it costs twice as much money to go fix it or what they like to do is buy brand new. Yeah, I like buying brand new but I've used a lot of old things for a long time and got by with it.
Speaker 3:I just don't understand why we can't use some of these schools and for the new city hall instead of let's tear it down. I really think that they need to really focus their things on fixing the problems that we have, the infrastructure.
Speaker 2:One of the things that certainly is achievable is finish the projects you begin and get them done on time. And we talked about Eagle Crest for example. Let's just take the gondola project. It seems like it's taking forever. It seems like we have to repurchase, spend more money on this or that and if we're going to say yes to a project like that then put the resources whether you have to.
Speaker 2:Now in this case Joe, I'm in favor of outsourcing to private developers that could get the job done now. Let's get these projects done that we've already committed to. That's just one thing to help make Juneau more affordable because it becomes a finite project. You control cost if you can shorten that time and you get a better ski season for those that like
Speaker 4:to ski. Well, I'll pick up that thread. There is no question in anybody's mind who spent more than five minutes looking at Eagle Crest, how it's been run. It's a great facility. We're lucky to have it.
Speaker 4:If it was 800 feet higher at the base, it would be a tourist destination in the winter. But we have a ski facility that we need to turn it over to Goldbelt. Goldbelt's got a plan. The Goldbelt board and directors out there, they come from a culture where you have to get things done on time, under budget, or in an efficient way. Turn it over to Gold Belt.
Speaker 4:We can't, I don't think, sell the land but do a long enough lease so that it can be managed properly.
Speaker 2:At all. I'm okay with that Joe. It's a solution.
Speaker 4:Stop pooping around. Craig Dahl was just hired at a 6 figure amount to be the special projects manager. First of all, Craig Dahl should not be on the payroll but the mayor and some of the chums down there decided to put him on to move the gondola problem. Just stop it. Turn the program over for comprehensive administration and maintenance of Eagle Crest.
Speaker 4:There's other opportunities we could do that too.
Speaker 3:I think one of them is Telephone Hill. Just sell the property. You don't need to have the city involved in trying to come up with all these grandiose plans. Let somebody else spend their money. Let the building department loosen up a little bit so people can do stuff because it's absolutely silly to spend $9,000,000 to just tear
Speaker 4:I it agree with Mac. The role of our assembly with a little bit of input from staff and say what is it that you envision for Telephone Hill? This is a project that's been sitting around since Bill Sheffield was governor and we sort of wound up the property. But to have the city in Broo allocating upwards of what $9,000,000 to do the demolition with no plan, no developer to engage in the redevelopment of that property is almost a sin from an economic and a community perspective. What the city in borough needs to do is identify kind of the Roman numerals on the back of a three by four.
Speaker 4:What is it that we want? We want some green space, we want this, we want some affordable housing, whatever it is. And then ask people to submit an initial proposal that says, do you have the capacity and the qualifications to undertake a project? Can you get the financing? If they meet that hurdle, you enter into negotiations, they come up with a design, but there's a plan to do something.
Speaker 4:We are poised because of our assembly and the staff, the economic non development staff down there to tear down housing, which we all know we need. There's part B. We're going to tear it down and it's likely to sit there. Look around this community. There's a dump across from the dump.
Speaker 4:The city in Burrow never gets on that. Look around where the old American Legion was or is it VFW? We're on our third generation of rotting plywood on these eyesores and gaps all over this little community. We can do better. We need to do better and we need
Speaker 2:to stop thinking that government's got all the solutions here and enter into true partnerships where the private sector who has the experience, the knowledge, and the ability to finance these things takes general directions and then the city needs to get out of the way if you want affordable housing. I would say that the partnerships are good. Eagle Crest might be one since there may be no transfer of land. However, I go back to a few years ago, Pederson Hill, It seems like we should have just sold the land, pocketed the money and let private development do their thing and bring in housing at an affordable price.
Speaker 4:Well and why didn't that happen? Because the city insisted upon full streets with curbs and sidewalks and everything else. I moved to this community there were dirt roads all over the valley. Were they great? No.
Speaker 4:Did they eventually get chip sealed and upgraded? Yeah. But there was affordable housing in the 60s and 70s because we got housing. We didn't worry too much about sidewalks. Can that come later?
Speaker 4:Yeah. But the city in borough insists on front loading everything to the detriment of affordability And that's got to change and that's a mindset. And until people are elected or we find a city manager who's not just a go along get along with the bureaucratic impulses of Jill and that crew, you're not going to get affordable housing. We should talk or Don should talk about the proposal cap on the millage rate and why that is a great thing in terms of affordability for this community. Well,
Speaker 2:Thank you, Joe. You keyed that up very well. But the millage cap certainly one thing we cannot control as residents is sort of the cost of our housing. In other words, an assessor is always going to say that it's gonna cost a little bit more and probably because there are only 10 houses according to Zillow. So it's a supply and demand thing.
Speaker 2:We don't always control that but what we can control is what take city government takes out of that assessed value. And so the proposal out on the streets that's going to be well it's not on the streets, it's going to be on the October ballot is actually capping the amount of money that you as a resident are going to owe in taxes because we're taking that millage rate from its current 12 down to nine. So that's what that proposal does and it really puts money in your pocket. So it's one of the things that helps that young family. Interest rates have gone high.
Speaker 2:Years ago you could get a mortgage for two or three or 3.5%. Those days are gone at least for now and so any money that you can give a young family even if you're capping those millage rates helps them send their kid to camp, buy pizza for the family outing or something like that and I think that's part of the affordability for Juno.
Speaker 1:I love everything that we have touched on upon this. And I think the big thing that I'm hearing is, this all boils down to the people. The people of Juno that do love living here. I'm raising my family here. I love raising my kids here.
Speaker 1:I'm a coach here. There is so much to do. I love being outside. But at the same time, we have some things going on around us. It sounds like people, business owners, and things kinda just need to come together and make a difference, know.
Speaker 1:Make Juneau what it is. The most beautiful capital city.
Speaker 3:People need to vote.
Speaker 1:Exactly and that's what it boils down to. And people need not to be scared.
Speaker 4:The city and borough is gonna enter into some scare tactics. As if you pass this cap on the military which basically maintains the status quo. This is not a punishment to our city government. It maintains the status quo on your property taxes and your rent. Wade Bryson and people are already saying, oh we're gonna have to close the Ecuador, oh we're gonna have to close the Treadwell Arena, everything.
Speaker 4:It's not true. There are huge reserves down in the city and borough. There's all kinds of areas where they could gain efficiencies without even breaking a sweat. So when you hear that if you pass these measures, which you'll have a choice to do, eliminate sales tax on your groceries, eliminate sales tax on your utilities, cap the millage rate. It's just scare tactics and it's just bad politics.
Speaker 3:So is increasing the summertime tax. I don't think that's a good one.
Speaker 4:Nobody's really stress test this goofball proposal that got cooked up trying to replace their perceived lack of revenue.
Speaker 3:Scare tactics is what it is.
Speaker 4:There's a theme song, it's fun, fun, fun till daddy takes the T bird away. The citizens need to take the T bird away from downtown at one hundred fifty five.
Speaker 1:Wonder if I can get the producer to queue that up at the end of this. I'll see what I can do on that, Don.
Speaker 3:Works for
Speaker 1:us. I wanna thank First Things First, especially Joe coming in here all the knowledge. Joe Geldof, a local attorney been around since 1979. I have Mac Miners. He is on the board of First Things First and Don Habiger, executive director.
Speaker 1:I think all this boils down to again, do your research, get involved, have your voice heard. Let's make Juneau the amazing place that it already is, the most beautiful capital city. So much to do, so much to And more affordable. Exactly, make it more affordable and that is the big question we posed today. If you liked this topic of conversation, if you've heard the podcast before over at kynyradio.com for first things first and say, hey, like what they're saying.
Speaker 1:I wanna get involved with those people. Don, how do they do it?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, come visit us on our website. It's first things first or FTFAKfoundation, allspelledout.org. And you can message us through our website and you can get involved that way.
Speaker 1:I wanna thank Don, wanna thank Joe, thank Mac for coming in here. This is another First Things First podcast. Check out the episodes over at kinyradio.com.