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Hosted by Steve Phipps of Wayfind Marketing, The Growth-Minded Marketing Podcast simplifies marketing for B2B CEOs ready to grow with confidence. Each episode offers real-world strategies, step-by-step coaching, and inspiring CEO interviews—all designed to help you align your marketing with your business goals, stop wasting time and money, and scale without the stress. If you’re a growth-minded leader tired of vague advice and underperforming tactics, this is your next step.
Steve: Have you ever made the bold move
to launch a business just three weeks
before your child is born and not only
survive, but grow to over 4 million
in revenue and under three years?
In this episode of the Growth-Minded
Marketing Podcast, we sit down with
Mason Cosby, the founder of Scrappy A BM.
But this isn't just a story about growth.
It's a masterclass and focus, protecting
your reputation and having the courage
to say no to the wrong opportunities
so you can scale the right ones.
AnnieLaurie : We say it all the time.
Clarity attracts and confusion repels.
Mason's journey is a powerful example
of what happens when you get laser
focused on your ideal client and
fiercely protect your brand even
when it costs you in the short term.
There's a lot of hype around
account based marketing, but
Mason brings it down to earth.
He shows how a BM, when done
well isn't just a tactic.
It's a strategy that aligns marketing,
sales, client experience in a way
that fuels real business growth.
Steve: Welcome back to the Growth-Minded
Marketing Podcast, where we simplify
marketing so growth-minded CEOs and
their teams can scale their businesses
with more clarity and fewer headaches.
I'm Steve Phipps.
AnnieLaurie : I'm Annie Laurie Walters,
and if you're trying to grow your
business without losing your mind or
your margin, you're in the right place.
Steve: Today's conversation is one that
I've really been looking forward to.
Mason Cosby has built a $4 million
agency in under three years, and he
did it while navigating in some of
the same pressures and decisions that
every CEO listening knows all too well.
AnnieLaurie : And let's
not skip this part.
He launched Scrappy A BM just
three weeks before becoming a dad.
That's either gutsy genius or
maybe a little bit of both.
Steve: Think it's probably both
really stood out to me was how
intentional Mason has been about
who he serves, who he hires, and
who he's willing to walk away from.
His focus on client fit is something that
every CEO including me can learn from
AnnieLaurie : because let's
be honest, we've all taken
on clients we shouldn't have.
Maybe the scope was fuzzy.
Maybe the red flags were there,
but we needed the revenue.
Mason's story reminds us you
don't scale by pleasing everyone.
You scale by getting clear.
Steve: And Mason doesn't
just talk about his wins.
He is incredibly transparent about
the mistakes he's made, how he
has refunded clients their fees
over hiring and navigating early
missteps with IP and contractors.
It is a raw and generous
and insightful conversation.
AnnieLaurie : Whether you are hiring,
refining your ICP or just trying to stay
focused on the long game, you'll walk away
with something you can use right away.
Steve: Let's dive into my
conversation with Mason Cosby.
All right, so welcome everybody to
the Growth-Minded Marketing podcast.
And so one of my favorite things to do
is to talk to business owners and CEOs
and hear their growth stories, some of
the challenges they've faced as they've
been growing and running their companies.
Today's guest is a little bit
unique, so Mason, who's going to be
joining us here in just a moment.
Mason is actually somebody that I tried
to hire a few years ago, and as my agency
was growing and scaling, he and I were
both in this story StoryBrand world.
We were both StoryBrand guides, Heim
and, and we had these connections.
We actually went to church
with his in-laws, even though
he and I had never met.
There were just these cool,
unexpected connection points.
And anyway, Mason ended up, he
pursued a different opportunity
and just has been thriving.
Introduced Mason here just now.
I'm gonna let him tell the story,
but he went on to start a company
that has just exploded and.
As he and I have, have stayed in contact
and had conversations about various things
related to running business and marketing.
Some regards, I feel like I'm taking
notes when I have conversations with
Mason because there's just a lot that
I'm learning from him, and so I'm really
excited for Mason to share his story.
So Mason Cosby, welcome to the
story and why don't you introduce
yourself, your company, and tell
a little bit about what you do.
Mason: Steve, thanks for having me.
And it's funny that you shared the
story that way 'cause I remember it.
I wanted to work for you
and timing was was off.
So I, I think it's funny that you were,
Steve: I think it was a both end.
I think it was a both end.
Mason: Oh yeah.
No, I would've loved to work for you.
But I started a company called Scrappy,
A BM, after the other opportunity I
pursued was another marketing agency
and I ended up working at a small agency
that taught me a lot about account-based
marketing and then ended up getting
acquired by the world's most awarded
B2B agency as their a BM division.
So through that led.
New business development for North
America and had a really cool ride.
Long and short ended up having some
kids and realizing I don't know
that I wanna work at the PE-backed
global agency that just long hours.
So launched a company 'cause that's
obviously what you do through free.
Have a kid and it has gone far better
than I think anyone would've expected.
Laura has been good to us, so I can share
a lot of the things that we've done.
I think the most important things
are the things that we've done poorly
and survived those many mistakes long
and short in two and a half years,
four and a half million in sales.
So hopefully there's a, there
are a couple things we can share.
Steve: So Mason, for our listeners who
might be unfamiliar with A BM, which
is account based marketing, would
you give a quick overview as to what.
A BM is and who it's for.
'cause you serve a very specific type of,
of business and, and if we have folks who
are listening, that might be a good fit.
I would love for them to better
understand what you do and eventually
have to get in contact with you.
Mason: So account-based marketing
is really just a B2B revenue
strategy that aligns marketing,
sales, and customer success are in
a set of shared target accounts.
And then added to that definition.
And it's not just, we all align
that these are the companies that
we want to go after, but ideally
those companies are based in the
data of who your best customers are.
So when I look at.
Essentially, once you have gotten to a
certain size and scale where you know
where your product best fits a specific
market, A BM is the very logical next
step to take because you are saying.
With a deep level of conviction.
I know factually that if these
companies were to work with our
business, their lives would be better.
So when I look at it through that
lens, that's really who A BM is for.
So it's not really for the super
early stage startup that's still
figuring out product market fit.
It is really for those that clearly
can define their market and say, these
are who we serve exceptionally well
and ideally better than anyone else.
Steve: Because of the level of detail
that you go into with your clients
to develop an ICP, who's yours.
Mason: The starting point is really
that 20 to 25 million is our low end,
and then we have found, our sweet spot
really caps out at like two 50 to 300.
So we claim our ICP is about
25 to a hundred million.
They are typically B2B software companies.
They have typically between three
and eight marketers internally,
they already have a sales team
that's doing some form of outbound.
They are US headquartered.
They have an average contract value
of at least $50,000 and they're on
Salesforce or HubSpot as their CRM.
So we go into that level of specificity.
When we did that.
We then married that target
account criteria up against
those that were already in the
scrappy EBM fear of influence.
So I've been fortunate enough to have
gained decent sized following on social
and through events and an email list.
That criteria got us down to
about 327, not about it's 327
accounts that we specifically know.
These are the best fit customers for us
already are brand aware in some capacity.
I
Steve: love that level of specificity.
You know, when you launched the business,
did you start out with level of definition
or what's the journey been like to really
get honed in on who your best client is?
Mason: Yeah, I ran marketing
for marketing agencies and I've,
Steve been blessed to have many
conversations with folks like you.
So I thought when I launched Scrappy a
BM, that we were gonna be like the agency
for agencies and help run those programs.
'cause I, I know how to do that.
Fairly well.
That was a lot of where I felt
super comfortable as I started
to put more and more content in
the market, two things happened.
One agencies just, and I'll just
say this pretty plainly, we worked
with four agencies that stole our
intellectual property, started
to pass it off as their own.
It was like, that is not a
good business move for us.
And the other side is we found higher
paying clients that got better results
by the nature of how their business
was structured in the B2B SaaS space.
So.
We as a result, have been able to
charge more and then hire better
talent and then get better clients.
So it's actually become a very
virtuous cycle for us where.
I'm not just charging more 'cause I
wanna have a greater gross profit, which
is nice help for growing the business.
But I mean, I, I've been able to, most
of our team make six figures and we're
a marketing agency that's not normal.
And it's because of the caliber of clients
that I have that I can charge the caliber
of rates that I can, which then allows
me to track the caliber of talent that
then attracts the caliber of clients.
So it was just a very painful
process of working with bad clients.
And I don't say bad in a, in a negative
way, but just like not our best fit.
Giving money back often and just
saying, I'm sorry, this was not,
because the worst thing they can
say about me is we worked with them.
They gave us all our money
back and it wasn't a good fit.
I'm really cognizant of reputation.
So did that.
And then where we found great fit, we
just said, do you have any of friends?
And then we've done that for two and
a half years and that has worked.
Steve: What were some of the,
when you, when, what was it like
when you were going through that?
Because to start out working with
somebody, you, you have high hopes,
your clients have high hopes, and
that's rare to hear of someone, an
agency that would give the money
back because it wasn't the right fit.
Because you recognize at some
point this isn't a good fit.
So walk through some of those experiences.
I've gotta imagine as a business
owner, when you're cutting a check
back to your client, you know there's
some pain that goes with that.
Mason: Yeah, and I want to go ahead
and give the the caveat of, we did
have a client this year where I didn't
cut the check because there is a point
where you shouldn't do that forever.
When I was just starting out.
I didn't have great processes.
I didn't have a great team.
I didn't have everything
buttoned up and figured out.
And there were quite a few things
that I could own, where I see
where the engagement went wrong.
And on the other side is I view
myself now 'cause I've actually had
really bad buying experiences as a
business owner where I was portrayed
one thing and then got another.
And I don't think people do that
intentionally, but it does happen.
So I did not get my
money back, even though.
I could point to you where
it was a whole thing.
So I just as a thought process
around one, I plan on being in
the market for a very long time.
The $10,000 today is not worth the
long-term hit that I could experience.
And it's, it's a could.
Um, so that's the first thing.
And then the second thing is I have been
very fortunate that my wife and I have
kept our expenses extraordinarily low.
So we are debt free, including our home.
It shifts the perspective a lot.
'cause I, I did work for a boss where
his mortgage was $4,500 a month and
it was like, God, if we don't hit our
sales goals, you'll lose your home.
So there's an immense amount of
pressure, whereas here I consistently
am mainly focused on how do we do the
best delivery, get the best results
for the right clients, and then
would I have rather kept the money?
For sure.
But again, realistically, I plan
on being in the market for a very
long time, and I know that in the
first two and a half years and.
Quite frankly still today have so
much that we're figuring out that
I would rather not make someone pay
for me figuring it out because I
don't think that's right to them.
And I think that there is a, a long-term
negative damage that will create to me.
Yeah, I'd just rather leave as friends.
Steve: I, I love that approach.
So, as, as you've grown, 'cause you, you
started off a little over four years ago,
and how many team members do you have now?
Mason: So I wanna make sure
I left Mojo four years.
Scrappy's actually been around
for like two and a half years.
Steve: Okay, so even shorter.
So two and a half years of scrappy A BM.
You just mentioned that you guys
are hitting 4 million in revenue.
Mason: So we've done four and a
half million in total top line sales
in total in two and a half years,
and we're about 2 million in a
Steve: rrr.
Okay?
Mason: So, uh, which is annual revenue to
Steve: go from zero.
2 million annual recurring
and, and I gotta imagine that's
moving up into the right.
What if, I mean, so how many
people do you have on your team
Mason: currently?
12.
No, 13.
We just hired somebody last
week and then by the end of Q1
we should be up to about 17.
Steve: When you first started,
was it just you or did you have
other people working with you?
Mason: Yeah, the short story is.
It was really just me and then contractor.
The longer story is there's been
like 17 iterations of scrappy
A BM in two and a half years.
So the actual launch was like a broker
model where no one made any money.
And then I was like, this is very dumb, so
I'm just gonna, I said to everybody that
was like a member of Scrappy A BMI was
like, Hey, none of us have made any money.
I'm gonna change the business model.
Can we still be friends?
And some of them said yes, some of
them said no, and that was unfortunate.
Now it's, I have employees
for quick context.
Everyone that's like,
why not the broker model?
You have no control over whether
or not they take the deal.
So like I would get a contract all the way
to, uh, ready to sign and then the people
would change their mind last minute.
I was like, I literally cannot
scale this business then.
'cause they were like, nah, I'm good.
I changed my mind.
So anyway, fun times.
Steve: So as you've grown, 'cause I think
there are obviously unique challenges
that you have encountered in, in scaling
a business as quickly as you have.
What are some of the lessons that
you've learned in that process?
Mason: I think the lessons that I have
that I would come back to is things that
we have done well, and there's a couple.
One is protecting
reputation above all else.
I have walked away from so much money
that would've been good in the short
term, would've been massively detrimental.
So that's the first
thing I allude to that.
But like.
Would have soured relationships that have
created other referrals or other things.
I didn't do that perfectly.
Last year we took on four clients that
I didn't think they were a bad fit, but
I didn't think they were a good fit.
It was like this weird middle where I
was like, nah, I could go either way.
Three of them went very terribly.
Only one went kind of okay.
So I've now shifted our like client
onboarding philosophy to, if it's not.
An absolute yes, it's a no
Steve: Wait.
When you had those clients coming on
board, did you kind of know at a gut level
that they weren't gonna be a good fit?
Mason: Two of them, yes.
Two of them, we discovered about two
weeks in within process of the onboarding.
And I had just hired a bunch of people,
so I was like, well, we gotta ride it out.
I lost six months of my life to that
because I overhired too quickly and then
took four clients that were just took up
all of my time so I could not continue
to actually grow and scale the business.
So those are things that
I think we did poorly.
And then on top of that.
One that came back to bite me because
we had contractors, and again, as a
reference, there was a broker model
at first, but then the business model
changed contracts and like expectations
were loose because we had, so we
launched business in July, and then
from July and August we ended up doing
$300,000 in sales, was pretty good.
And then from there, by the time
we hit January, we were already
doing about $50,000 a month.
It was just, it went so quickly that the
contractors I had had very clear, they
had very unclear agreements, so some
of them actually ended up putting their
intellectual property that was actually
like trademark stuffed into the business.
As a result, I went to go start to
trademark things, found out things
that we were using every day, had
already been trademarked by other
people, and I actually had to buy
people out of their, their ip.
So it's just, and you try to do that like
somewhat quietly so that you don't like
blow everything up for all your team of
like, whoa, like who actually owns this?
Really clear expectations on the front
end of what are we actually building?
And I say that I didn't know.
I figured it out along the way, but just
like really clear contractor agreements
of this has worked for hire because
you may end up getting two years in and
realizing, oh, I have to spend lots of
money now to buy the thing that I already
thought I bought, which is really hard.
Steve: That can be very
uncomfortable, to say the least.
So one of the things that I know about
you, just from our conversations,
but also just watching you.
Obviously you're a numbers guy and
you use that to drive your business,
but for you, there's a bigger story.
There's a bigger drive to what you do,
and, and I, I think any our listeners
can, can pick up on the integrity, the
value, how much you value relationships.
And for you, valuing reputation isn't
just about, Hey, I wanna have a good name.
Uh, there there's more underneath of that.
So as a business owner, what, what are
some of those things that really serve as
your North Star, that guide what you do?
Mason: I'm very open about my faith
publicly, so I am well aware that
many of our clients know that I
profess Christ as Lord and Savior.
So first and foremost, I am painfully
aware that for some of our clients
engaging with scrappy, A BM may be
the closest they get to engaging
with someone that is a Christian.
So, one, I wanna make sure that that's.
Done.
Well, not perfectly, it never
will be, but I wanna make sure
that that's done fairly well.
So that's the first thing.
The second thing is our industry of
marketing agencies as a whole is,
someone actually said it to my face.
I was like, yeah, you work
in the manipulation industry.
Steve: Yeah, they should
knew where they stood.
Right.
Mason: I was like, I hadn't
thought about it that way and
it's not really how I view it.
So the almost obnoxious overindexing on
honesty, transparency, and social proof
is something that I think helps build
trust in the market that then allows us
to hopefully stand out as a business.
And the last thing is
truly when I look at.
The A BM industry and those that
are in it, it is a, when done well,
it is one of the most impactful
growth levers for a business, for
someone's career, and essentially
very fundamentally changed my life.
I would like to help
other people do the same.
So our actual real mission as a
business is less of like a RRR focused
or anything around those lines.
It's to equip a million marketers by
January of 2035 because if we can actually
teach marketers how to do account-based
marketing, they will grow their career.
The perspective of their peers and be
able to provide for their families.
I've just had so many friends that
have gotten laid off in this space
because people misunderstood what
they were trying to accomplish.
And as a result, if you don't
understand it and you've gotta make
a cut somewhere, you're gonna cut
the thing you don't understand.
It's those three things layered together
that really help drive me a little bit
more than I think I otherwise would be.
Steve: Yeah.
You've got so much clarity around
that and how has that helped you?
In those seasons where you are having
to push through and deal with the fires
and you've shared some of those, how
has having that sense of vision and
mission helped keep you moving forward?
Mason: Yeah.
We talk about the 4.5
million in revenue, which sounds really
nice and cool and fun, but very feasibly.
Just last year we did
2 million in revenue.
Hard cost.
I made about $450,000 in mistakes,
like things that I sh between over
hiring and trademarks and bringing
on bad clients that didn't end
up paying us really hard stuff.
So one Mary, Erin and I, Mary Erin
is my wife, who is incredible.
She and I have often referenced that
these are going to be the stories that
we tell to help others along the way.
So that's the first thing.
And then the second thing is.
Very realistically, I, I've heard
this phrasing recently, which is
these are the reasons people quit
if you just get past these things.
On the other side is actually a far
less competitive space, so I have seen
quite a few people that started their
agencies or started their businesses
around the same time, um, or a little
bit before that have since quit.
And again, no shame in that.
This is super hard and I could not have
done it had our family not been bought
in that we were gonna live on like.
$50,000 a year pre-tax
for two and a half years.
We say that as a passing comment.
That is a fundamental change because
I was making hundred and 40 as a
salary, plus my wife was a nurse.
So like we had a take home
pay of like 2 20, 2 30.
Yeah.
And then dropped like overnight.
So
Steve: yeah, that's a big shift.
Mason: But I just, I give that context of.
Again, none of this for me has been
about, this is gonna sound dumb,
like yes, it's about the money, but
it's about the money for the sense
of like providing for my family.
And then the other shift that I had
previously is I used the business
as profits to fuel ministry.
I recently, in the past year,
joined a thing called C 12, and I
now actually view my business as a
discipleship mechanism through an I can.
Disciple my employees and, um, ideally
minister through the work that we
do and how we do it to our clients.
So when I look at all of that and
you put all that together, I plan
to be around for a long time.
These things are extraordinarily
hard and because I can survive
them, I will outlast everyone else.
And I, there need to be people that know
the gospel in this space so that this
space can actually have more redemptive
businesses and do right by people.
So it's those things combined that.
Help us keep going.
Steve: I love that.
One of my guest few episodes back is
Jonathan Torres, who is based here
in Memphis, and he is a C 12 chair.
And so he was a client previously
when he was the CEO for a home
and commercial security company.
C twelve's, great organization
with a Christian perspective for,
for business owners who wanna
see their businesses as more than
just a business, something bigger.
Making an internal impact.
I love that.
Mason, what if there was one thing
that you could share with our
listeners, so CEOs, business owners,
what, what would you share with them?
Mason: The most impactful thing you
can do for your business is clearly to
define who you do the best work for.
If you do that one, you will get
greater results for them, which then
means you can charge more money and
have a more profitable business,
which then also means you can pay
better wages to attract better talent.
And then word spreads quickly when you
actually do work extraordinarily well.
So you'll get more of
these kinds of customers.
So if you look at your current
customer base and you don't like 80%
of them stop getting those customers.
You have the ability to just stop
selling them and then only sell the 20%
and it will slow growth for a season.
It absolutely will, but you
will then scale exponentially
faster 18 months from now.
Steve: Yeah, it's, uh, reminds me of.
I forget the author's name now, but the
book 10 x is easier than two x, and it's
by getting very specific and aligning
what you do best with the people who
benefit the most from it, which allows
you to focus in on your area of expertise.
It's a bit like Jim Collins
and the Hedgehog concept.
You know, you align what you're
best at, what drives your revenue
with what you're passionate about.
Sort of the component that's not there,
but that you're bringing in is people
who have the best fit for those services
and, and what you bring to the table.
So, well, Mason, where can
people get in touch with you?
Mason: If you go to scrappy abm.com,
we have ton of resources.
We didn't do a super deep dive on
specifically account-based marketing.
But if you wanna do a super
deep dive once a month, we host
a thing called a BM in a day.
So as a listener of this, if you
go to scrappy abm.com/workshop
and use the code 50 off, uh, you can
join an eight hour workshop with me.
That's just a hundred bucks.
So I'll teach you how to build
a full program in a single day.
That, or scrappy.com/newsletter,
which is where we send
out all of our free stuff.
So those are the main places to
come and get in contact with me.
And Scrappy bm,
Steve: I'm on that newsletter list
and you guys do you and your team
send out some fantastic resources.
Mason: Quick shout out to Evan
Cox who runs our newsletter.
Also mutual friend, but
yeah, he does great.
Steve: That's great.
Great.
Yeah, I remember Evan from StoryBrand
when I was back involved there.
Mason, thank you so much for joining us.
Loved hearing your story,
and for our listeners.
Reach out to Mason.
You called the first part of this episode.
You heard who his sweet spot is,
the clients that they work with.
So if you fit there, man, reach out.
You won't be disappointed.
And for folks that are just looking to get
a starting point, you can head over to.
My company's website,
way find marketing.com.
We have a free marketing assessment.
It's a great place if you're
just trying to figure out the
marketing landscape and where to
get started and what to prioritize.
It's a free 25 question assessment.
It'll take you less than 10
minutes, and it gives you access
to a free marketing playbook that's
almost 40 pages of resources and
tactics that you can implement.
So again, Mason, thank you
so much for joining us.
And have a fantastic day everybody.
Mason said it best if it's not
an absolute yes, it's a no.
He shared how protecting his reputation
and the company's reputation and walking
away from misaligned clients has become
the foundation for sustainable growth,
not just in revenue, but in team health.
And long-term momentum.
And what really stood out the most was
how clearly Mason has defined his ideal
client and then he's stuck to that.
Now that level of clarity didn't
come easily, came through some costly
mistakes, but it's the reason that
his business is thriving today.
Alright, AnnieLaurie, there's a
lot of gold in that conversation.
What hit home the most for you?
AnnieLaurie : Honestly, his discipline
in saying no, that's a hard muscle
to build, especially when you're
growing and every dollar counts.
But Mason knew that misaligned
clients are a drain on your energy.
They're a drain on your
team and your future.
And saying no isn't weakness,
it's actually wisdom.
Steve: And that goes straight to the
heart of the guided marketing framework
that we've developed for our clients.
It's about clear, and when you're
clear on your ideal client is
Mason, uh, showed us, you can stop
chasing everything that moves.
And Mason didn't just define his ICP,
he built his entire system around.
AnnieLaurie : Right, and the
virtuous cycle, he described
better fit clients, higher rates,
stronger delivery, stronger team.
That doesn't happen by chance.
It's the result of aligning
strategy and service.
Steve: And I love how open he
was about the struggles that
he went through to get there.
And let's be real.
You know, many CEOs are who are
listening to this, are stuck in that
messy middle taking on work that.
Maybe it fits.
And sometimes just to hit payroll
in that short time survival mode,
unfortunately has a long-term cost.
AnnieLaurie : Exactly.
And if you're in that spot,
take a breath and do the math.
One wrong fit client can
derail six month of growth.
Protect your time, protect your
team, and protect your reputation.
Steve: If you can't clearly name
your ideal clients industry, company
size, internal team structure, and,
and even their tech stack, you're
not marketing, you're guessing.
AnnieLaurie : And as we often
say, hope is not a strategy.
Steve: It never is.
So if you're feeling stuck in that
swirl of uncertainty, don't stay there.
We would love to help you define your
strategy, figure out your ICP and build
a marketing plan that actually works.
AnnieLaurie : What's your next step?
Take a look at your current clients, who
energizes your team, who drains them.
Start there and then ask
what do they have in common?
That's the beginning of your ICP,
and that clarity is the foundation
for scaling with confidence.
Steve: This episode is brought to you
by Wayfind Marketing, where we help
growth-minded CEOs and their marketing
teams simplify their marketing.
Sharpen their message and scale their
business with less chaos and more results.
You head over to way find marketing.com.
You can take the free marketing
assessment and schedule a review call.
Thanks for joining us on the
Growth-Minded Marketing Podcast.
If you found today's episode helpful.
Subscribe, leave a review and be
sure to share it with a fellow CEO.
I'm Steve Phipps.
AnnieLaurie : I'm Annie Laurie Walters.
Until next time, keep growing on purpose.