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Beyond The Brand is the podcast for purpose-driven entrepreneurs, creatives, and professionals who know their brand is about more than just business—it’s personal. Hosted by Brand Strategist Rod Brinson, this show dives deep into the mindset, habits, identity, and emotional intelligence that shape the way you show up in the world. From solo episodes to powerful conversations, Beyond The Brand explores what it really takes to build something meaningful—starting with the person behind the brand. Because if you’re not growing, your brand won’t either.
One of the most overlooked parts of your branding is your image. Not just what you wear but how people experience you. Your presence, your posture, your energy, whether you're in the room or on a zoom, you're saying something before you even speak. And if your image doesn't match your message, people can feel that. You can post all the content you want, but if you're out of alignment, it will show.
Rod Brinson:That's why I had to bring a good friend of mine who doubles as my stylist, a consultant, and overall creative force, Jonathan m Hall to the podcast. We're about to break it all the way down. Alright? But before we do, make sure you subscribe if you're serious about building a brand that actually reflects who you are. Enjoy the show.
Rod Brinson:Mister Hall, if you don't mind, how you doing?
Jonathan M. Hall:What's up, my man? Can you hear me okay?
Rod Brinson:I hear you perfectly fine. What about you hearing me?
Jonathan M. Hall:I hear you perfectly fine.
Rod Brinson:Okay. Good. Good. Technology can get in the way sometimes. I think some people might get a little nervous about using it, especially if they're not accustomed to it or, you know, they they feel like they don't wanna do anything that would cause them to look bad in public view.
Rod Brinson:But the reality is sometimes you gotta just get out there. And then you you know, once you get in the water, you get to swimming a little bit, you get used to it. Right? I would imagine that it's the same thing with, like, public appearances and how you dress and stuff like that. Would you agree with that?
Jonathan M. Hall:I would definitely agree with that. And one of the things that I love about you is that you've helped me get out there with technology. You've helped me get out there with marketing. You've even helped me get out there with branding. And one of the things I love about what I do is help people get more comfortable Mhmm.
Jonathan M. Hall:With just that getting out there, being a little more intentional about how they look, and, of course, that directly correlates to their branding. So I love what I do. I love getting people out there, and, they can easily see the results of it. So I love that as well.
Rod Brinson:That's what's up, man. I appreciate that. So look. I appreciate you joining me on this live. I've been going live every Tuesday for the last month or so with various people that I deem amazing individuals in their craft and in their journey.
Rod Brinson:And for the month of March, it was primarily women. I wanted to kind of highlight the international, you know, month for women. But when it comes to April, which is my birthday month, I was like, you know, you know that feeling when you got a big vision, but nobody around you can really trust to help you bring it to light. Yeah. Been there.
Rod Brinson:And that's exactly why I created the Build Your Brand Community. It's not just another group. It's a space where smart, creative, purpose driven entrepreneurs come together to get real support, real strategy, and real growth. We're not here to hustle harder. We're here to build smarter.
Rod Brinson:If you've been trying to build your brand in a vacuum and you're struggling, maybe it's time to stop doing it alone. There's a seat in the room waiting on you. Visit RobBrinson.com for more information and let's get back into this episode. But but we're talking April 7. That's my birthday.
Rod Brinson:Oh, But for the month of April, I was like, you know what? I need to have some guys on here to kinda really, like, help me bring some of these stories to life and and showcase, you know, various pieces that people can can bounce off of and and live with. So bottom line is it's an awesome lineup, and it starts with you, sir. So Wow.
Jonathan M. Hall:If you don't
Rod Brinson:mind, for the people who don't quite know who you are or what it is you do, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and then we'll jump into some questions.
Jonathan M. Hall:Thank you, Rod. My name is Jonathan M. Hall. I have my own consulting company as CEO. And what I do is I help people achieve their goals and dreams and look good while they are on that journey.
Jonathan M. Hall:So as a wardrobe style consultant, I hope people look great for any occasion. And as a lifestyle consultant, I help people navigate that path that they're on, and it depends on maybe you are a, frontline manager and you're going to a c level position. How do you navigate that? Or if you're going from corporate to entrepreneurship. So, yeah, I help people navigate those paths in life to get to the next level.
Rod Brinson:And, man, listen. When we connected, I mean, it was, what, two years ago now?
Jonathan M. Hall:Yeah. It was
Rod Brinson:about two years ago. We sat down, had some coffee, started having conversations. And I was kinda sharing where I was going with my life. You were sharing where you were going with yours. No clue where we would end up two years later.
Rod Brinson:Right?
Jonathan M. Hall:Not at all.
Rod Brinson:But to your point, like, you do help people to realize some of those things. And and I'll be honest and transparent. Like, I'm a guy where my confidence is on 10 at all times. I don't care who I'm around and what I got going on, but you helped me to realize it's not just my confidence that needs to stand out. I need to dress the part.
Rod Brinson:I need to look the part. I need to care about my appearance so that when I'm in these rooms, before I even open my mouth, I have the ability to win favor with the people that I want to connect with. Right? So talk a little bit about how that actually matters in day to day life for people.
Jonathan M. Hall:That's a great question, man. My mom, she was a college professor and she taught psychology. So what I learned about myself is that I was always kind of around somebody that thought about what other people think, not in a negative way, not in an overly consuming way, but in a way to help us understand how to navigate in life. And so when we think about appearance, it's just naturally that we as humans, when we look at somebody within seconds, you come to an occlusion, a conclusion about them. And what can be challenging is that if that first impression is not favorable, it's been scientifically proven, you start you have to go uphill to change that impression to work.
Jonathan M. Hall:So now that you understand fair or not. Right? It's it's just no way that everybody could know something, everything about you within, you know, three to seven seconds. Now that you know that's what happens, then you play by those rules. So that's why it's important to understand that and, you know, dress according to that particular situation.
Jonathan M. Hall:You know, sometimes people think, well, I don't wanna be in a tux all the time. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is understand the situation, do your research depending on the scenario, and be strategic. Put yourself at an advantage and win.
Rod Brinson:Now you use a word that's near and dear to my heart, strategic. I've always looked at being strategic from a, you know, a tactical way, like whether it's trying to get a job or make an impression on somebody, but I never quite put that two and two together in day to day life, right? Primarily because, you know, this is like everything else. We know when we go into an interview, we want to put on our sharpest shirt and make sure it's ironed and, you know, make sure our hair is cut or whatever it might be. But a lot of times people don't recognize you're on an interview day to day when you're walking down
Jonathan M. Hall:the road,
Rod Brinson:you're going to the library or going to the grocery store to get some apples. You know, I'm, again, I'm all about transparency. I could care less what I look like when I go do some of those things. Most times I'm just, you know, A to B, B to A. Like I put on some jogger pants and just call it a day.
Rod Brinson:And I think there's nothing wrong with being comfortable, but there's also something to like putting in a little bit of extra care and attention. And you kind of helped me to realize that just in some of our sessions and how we talk. I'm curious about like today's title, right? We say, you know, speak about who you are without even opening your mouth. Have you had any situations on both sides of that track where A, you've gone in a room and because you're dressed apart, you automatically got eyes going your way and the conversations are flowing?
Rod Brinson:And then b, maybe you and this might not apply. Uh-oh. I don't know if you can hear me. I
Jonathan M. Hall:didn't hear you. I can hear you now, though. And I heard the first part. You said you may not have been on the other side of that.
Rod Brinson:Yeah. And the other side was, you know, where you're not dressed the part, whether you're either underdressed or overdressed for the occasion and you just don't feel so comfortable. So I was trying to figure out, like, how do you navigate both sides of that? You know, with a, you know, being confident but not super overly confident to the point where you're arrogant. But then B, like, if you find yourself in a situation where you're necessarily dressed the part, you know, how do you navigate that room as well?
Jonathan M. Hall:Man, that's a great question. I have been in situations where I walked into the room and because the way I was dressed, people automatically thought I was somebody of authority and, of expertise And they're like, I don't know who he is, but he's obviously somebody. You know? Again, it's just how the mind works. And so I've definitely been in that part.
Jonathan M. Hall:And, again, in that situation, I think that we always seek to serve. How can I serve you? So if you are going to a networking event, you know, in your mindset, you are looking to connect with people, and you just simply say something like, hey. Tell me about what's going on exciting for you right now. And as they talk about that, you you just think about, wow.
Jonathan M. Hall:That is amazing. Tell me why that's exciting, and what ways can I help you with that? So, again, you may be the person that people look at when you walk in the room, but I think having a heart and a mindset of servanthood keeps you balanced. And it will also surprise people because they'll be like, oh, I thought you was just gonna tell me about how cool you are and all that. You know?
Jonathan M. Hall:And and when you're about others, those things, things just come to you, and you automatically gain favor with people. Now on the other side, you walk into the room and you go, oh, I'm obviously not dressed right. And that could be maybe you have on for example, when I worked for a particular company, I was in HR, and I was responsible for updating departments on our HR benefits. So I would go to the department meetings. When I went to the meetings with the techs who worked out in the field in construction, I did not wear a suit.
Jonathan M. Hall:At the most, I had on, like, khakis and a polo shirt. Right? Mhmm. Now when I went to the meeting with the marketing department, I more than likely had on a sports coat. So, again, it just depends on the audience.
Jonathan M. Hall:So the first time around because I wore sports coats most often, the first time around, I think I did go to the construction team to meet again. I had on a sports coat. And, unfortunately, immediately, I lost credibility because they're like, oh, he's just a suit. Uh-huh. He didn't relate to us.
Jonathan M. Hall:He didn't know what's going on. So I had to, really work from a deficit. You know? So I was behind the eight ball a little bit at the same time. I had the same servant attitude.
Jonathan M. Hall:So I eventually brought them back. And, again, just be genuine. Just ask people questions because you're interested because you wanna find out about them. And if your goal is to say, I wonder how I can help. Tell me more about that.
Jonathan M. Hall:What are something that people that you wish people knew that they don't? And just listen, and don't listen to have an answer. Listen to understand and find out you can help. And in that way, it works out when you help other people. When people understand you're generally interested, it directly connects to your brand because your brand and your image is how people think about you in one sense when you're not even around.
Jonathan M. Hall:So when you leave the room, they may go, wow. Don't even remember who that guy's name was, but, man, I need to know who they are because they will remember the way you made them feel. So by genuinely listening and trying to better understand your brand and your image will be literally branded on their mind because people don't do that. Because people think to get ahead, they gotta talk about themselves. Like, I tell you what I did.
Jonathan M. Hall:You know, last month I did this, I get 1.5 blah blah blah blah, you know, 80% increase in income. Blah blah blah. Yeah. Those things are important, and there's a time for that. Right.
Jonathan M. Hall:But, man, up front, you know, you you seek to serve and understand others and and it'll work out.
Rod Brinson:You say
Jonathan M. Hall:I hope that answers
Rod Brinson:your question. So, man, yeah, for sure. But you said so much there. I'm I'm trying to pull it all out. I wanna take it segment by segment because I think it's very important.
Rod Brinson:The first thing you said that really caught my attention was how you would wear a sports jacket and you were rubbing the people in a way that you didn't want to rub them. Like, so that that tells me that you can it's not just about dressing up. It's not just about putting on the flyest gear.
Jonathan M. Hall:Right?
Rod Brinson:It's about making sure you know the audience in the room you're walking into so that you're not overdoing it or making people look at you, like, down their glasses or, you know, like, thinking to themselves, like Yeah. Who does this guy think he is? Or like you said, oh, he's just another suit.
Jonathan M. Hall:Yeah.
Rod Brinson:Right? Yeah. So now they don't feel like they can relate to you. Now they feel like you're somebody separate from them, and that's not the impression that you wanted to give off. No.
Rod Brinson:So that's really good, man. And then the next thing you said that really kind of struck a chord with me, like and this is the thing that I want people to understand. You're not just a stylist. And I think you said this during our first meeting. You're changing lives from the inside out.
Rod Brinson:Right? It's more about how you treat people and how you are in these rooms than it is about the clothing that you have on and the way your hair is styled, etcetera. Not to say that it's not important, but if I'm viewing you correctly, you're saying that's the second layer. The first layer is what you see without me saying a word from across the room or when somebody introduces me. Right?
Rod Brinson:But the second layer is how do you treat me? How do you handle this conversation? Are you gonna make it all about you? Are you even gonna remember my name in ten seconds? You know?
Rod Brinson:So give some people some tips on, like, like, because I know you talked to me about, you know, remembering a person's name when you're being introduced to them. What what what tips do you kinda have for people that easily forget people's names?
Jonathan M. Hall:And that's a great question because that's something I'm continuing to work on. One of the things that, again, from a psychological perspective, people like hearing their names. It's just how we're wired. People like that.
Rod Brinson:That's right. And people like They love hearing their name with Jonathan.
Jonathan M. Hall:Good job. People people do, man. And people love the sound of their voice. And this is tricky. I need I need people to understand there's nuance in life.
Jonathan M. Hall:Now people probably don't like to hear their voice when they're hearing a recording played back because like, oh, this is my person. We're just not deaf. You know? Some people do. Some people don't.
Jonathan M. Hall:But in conversation, people like hearing their voice and their name. So, again, you have a servant's heart. You ask somebody their name, you repeat their name, and you ask them questions and give them a chance to talk. So, again, they're hearing their name, and they're hearing their voice. And so that is enhancing your brand and image without you even saying anything really.
Jonathan M. Hall:You're just asking questions, repeating their name, and listening. There are several tricks that you can kind of Google to make that happen to help you help their name stick. Again, it's something I'm trying to do better, but I really just try to listen intently. And when I ask them a question, I just say their name over and over again. And even when I walk away, I may not remember their name, but they'll remember that conversation.
Jonathan M. Hall:They'll remember that I used their name in that conversation. They'll remember that they heard their voice in their conversation. So, again, it goes back to the way you made them feel. And, again, you're not making it up. You're just having a genuine conversation.
Jonathan M. Hall:Ask on genuine names. So, again, put people in those conversations. And for me, I'm an introvert. I know most people don't believe that, but I am an introvert. So before I go to these networking meetings, I'm literally sitting in my car going, okay.
Jonathan M. Hall:You can do this. You can you got this. And I literally go, okay. I'm a be in here for forty five minutes. I'm gonna get three contacts instead of three meetings over the next week.
Jonathan M. Hall:And so in the midst of that, again, I'm strategic. And I go in, and I just say, hey. I'm Jonathan. Tell me about why you're here, and what are you trying to do for your company here? And just let them start talking, and then just let them say their name, and then just ask them a question.
Jonathan M. Hall:And it's just very casual, easygoing, no pressure. And if they ask me something about my company, of course, I know about my company. So it's a easy conversation, but you leave with servant, and it'll make a difference.
Rod Brinson:Okay. Listen. That is so good. And and there's one other part that I forgot to mention Mhmm. Based off of that last bill you gave, and I think this is very important.
Rod Brinson:You know, you talk about building your brand and and how you're reflecting your brand based off of how you dress, how you talk, and that type of thing. The piece that people don't understand that I run into a lot is that you're building your brand whether you're intentional about it or not. Right? You're setting the mark. You're setting the mark for who people know you to be, whether you are thinking about it and being strategic about it Yeah.
Rod Brinson:Or not. So if you decide, hey. I'm not really gonna put any effort into what I wear to this event over here tonight, I'm just gonna put something on because I want to be comfortable. Right? They're gonna recognize you in that light.
Jonathan M. Hall:And
Rod Brinson:and so it's important to be mindful of the brand you're building when it's in silence, when you're not even thinking about it, when it's not an intentionality of yours, you know, proactively. So that said, I'm very curious about, you know, what you would deem one of the most valuable pieces of an ensemble when you're getting ready to go somewhere, right? You know, obviously for men, got a sports coat if it's a business affair, that type of thing. You know, I know you also work with women sometimes when it comes to certain things, but, you know, style style and aesthetics is not just the clothing. It's the shoes.
Rod Brinson:It's the jewelry. It's the cologne. It's the way you, you know, do your hair and your makeup. What would you say it's like? You know what?
Rod Brinson:This is probably the number one thing that people miss when it comes to styling themselves, getting ready to go out to a function.
Jonathan M. Hall:Wow. So I'm going to repeat the question that stuck out to me. What is the one most important thing that people miss? I will say that because it's a lot of important things.
Rod Brinson:Uh-huh.
Jonathan M. Hall:I think man, that's a tough question. I will say based on my experience working with clients, there are two things. I can't narrow it down to one. The grooming
Rod Brinson:Mhmm.
Jonathan M. Hall:The fit of the clothes Oh. And shoes. What's what's amazing, again, what's amazing for men, most women love a man that has on nice shoes. Again and we need to understand the nuance because so many times people go, well, I'm not gonna spend $600 on a pair of shoes. I didn't say that.
Jonathan M. Hall:What I mean is are your shoes clean? Do they fit? Are they fashionable? Right? Are they something that you would wear in this decade?
Jonathan M. Hall:You know? It's like and so many women, they'll look at a dude's shoes and go, oh, no. He's out. If he don't take care of his shoes, he don't even care about himself. If you're not groomed or he don't even care and, again, I'm not saying you gotta have a $500 hairstyle.
Jonathan M. Hall:If you're not groomed and if your clothes don't fit and if your shoes are not, know, not well taken care of, obviously, that speaks a lot without you saying a word. And I think go back to your form of question, what do people miss? People miss those things. And it's if you just did those things, just put some effort into grooming. Put some effort into fit.
Jonathan M. Hall:Put some effort into the shoes. I promise you. You will see a favorable change in how people respond to you professionally and personally. I promise you that. And I hope that makes sense.
Rod Brinson:That's so good. Man, I'm about to go on Amazon no. Not Amazon. What's some of these shoe sites you sent me? I'm about to go buy about 10 pair of shoes based off of that note.
Rod Brinson:I mean, I've heard those things before, but like, and I know them to be true, but then you get comfortable and you go back to old ways and, you know, it's easy to just go, ah, let me just put on what I have. But I've learned that and I've seen it, man, like literally, like the knowledge you've given me and the guidance. I mean, even showing up over here, looking through my wardrobe, I'll never forget, you looked at one shirt, you're like, mm-mm. And you like looked at the next shirt, you're like, why is this here? Who who put this here?
Rod Brinson:Please, lord, save this guy. Right? It's that type of truth and honesty that allowed me to see, like, okay, yeah, maybe I do need to let this shirt go that I bought in 02/2002. That doesn't really fit me the same, you know, or either it's super big, like you said. So that helped, but I've noticed a tremendous difference on the days that I'm very intentional and I go out in public.
Rod Brinson:I'm not it's not even a thing for Instagram, like I'm so truthful when I say this, I will say this to you in private. People literally walk past me and do a double take or, you know, as I'm walking up, guy looking down his phone and he look up and he, you know, looks up again. I remember specifically just last week, I was leaving a business meeting running late to my son's track meet. I get to the track meet, I got on a sports jacket, I'm looking good, right? I'm feeling it.
Rod Brinson:Everybody was looking at me. I know part of it was like, is this guy overdressed for this track meet? You know, it wasn't just like they were just loving what I had on, but it still caught their eye. I still stood out. It was still one of those things where they were like, who is he?
Rod Brinson:And, okay, he must be somebody, you know? And so I felt that several times since connecting with you and being able to update my wardrobe. But but in addition to that, it's the the internal pieces. It's the thinking about other people, having the servant's mind, you know, going into the situation, looking to learn and listen rather than talk and take over.
Jonathan M. Hall:Yep.
Rod Brinson:Right? I think all of that matters. So I appreciate you for that and I'm grateful for, excuse me, being able to, you know, have you in my corner to help me with those things that I don't necessarily find that I have strength in. So with that said, I'm pretty sure there are going to be people either on this call or in the replay that are not so savvy with that or they don't have a stylist that they can call on to get those
Jonathan M. Hall:type of,
Rod Brinson:you know, tips and guidance. What would you say to them from an advice standpoint to get started on having a better wardrobe, on having a better attitude and approach to life when it comes to their lifestyle and their style within and without?
Jonathan M. Hall:Man, you are a great interviewer. I have to say that. So let me say that this. I've just been so fortunate to be you know, I think about the influence my mom had on me. She's been gone for seventeen years now, but a lot of it just comes from her.
Jonathan M. Hall:Well, she would tell me, you know, you never know who you're gonna run into, so you need to look like you're ready for that. And according to the kid, what's interesting to me, it's just all I've ever known. It's all I mean, so so sometime when I get these questions, I'm like, oh, people don't know that? And so I've had to train myself. I mean, Rod, I remember being on the school bus.
Rod Brinson:So what's really holding your business back? Can I be honest with you? Sometimes the biggest reason your brand isn't growing is the one that you haven't seen. I do one on one consultations with business owners all the time who come in thinking that they have a marketing problem only to discover it's actually a brand clarity issue or something deep beneath the curtains of their business. Right?
Rod Brinson:It could be a customer journey gap. It could be a number of things. If you're ready to stop spinning your wheels, trying to figure it out on your own and actually figure out what's not working. Let's talk one session, real answers, no gimmicks. You can book a consultation with me directly at rod brinson dot com.
Rod Brinson:Let's get back to this episode, but I'm looking forward to connecting with you.
Jonathan M. Hall:We had play clothes and we had school clothes. I'm sure most people did. And I remember my friend getting on the bus. I'm like, bro, why you got on your play clothes? We're going to we're going to school.
Jonathan M. Hall:What's the what's the thing? What's up? And he was like, what? And I'm I I must have been like, man, maybe the third grade. So I was always just kinda wired like this.
Jonathan M. Hall:So sometimes for me, I have to get out of my own head when I have to articulate to people. So somebody's going, you know what? That's just not something I do. And I understand that. Just like if something's broken around the house, bro, I can't fix it.
Jonathan M. Hall:I told my wife that before. We've been married for it'd be, you know, it'd be thirty four years coming June. She knew that going in. I'm like, look. I can't fix nothing.
Jonathan M. Hall:I promise to have a job where I can pay people to do so. So she's kind of the fix it person around the house unless we pay somebody. So what I'm saying is that we all have our strengths. Right. And and we all have a skill set.
Jonathan M. Hall:So I may call you to help me figure out how to get on IG live, you know, and you may call me to help you with an outfit, and that's okay. So if it's something that you're not that familiar with, you think it's a waste of time, I will say your image is important. Your brand is important. You never know from day to day who you're going to run into. That does not mean you need to be in a suit, But that does mean that if you're making a quick trip to Costco and you run into that person you've been trying to get that contract with or that company that you hope to interview with, that you're not going, oh my god.
Jonathan M. Hall:I can't believe I look like this. That doesn't mean you're in a suit. Maybe you're in some joggers and a nice hoodie and your shoes are clean. I mean, it could be as simple as that. So first of all, it has to be a mindset to go.
Jonathan M. Hall:I'm always branding. My image is always on display. So it's a mindset change and it takes an effort. So secondly, make sure that you wear stuff that fits. Make sure you invest in grooming, you know, and so those are some things that I would tell people that don't think about it at all.
Jonathan M. Hall:Change the mindset. Okay. I'm always branding. I always have opportunities. I got to make sure I'm ready.
Jonathan M. Hall:Right? Understand that people make a determination about your first impression within seconds. For example, I had a client and he said, man, he was a young guy, probably 22, very sharp entrepreneur, but he looked 15. And he was like, I can't get people to listen to me. I walk into the room and they just go, who's this kid?
Jonathan M. Hall:They don't even listen to me. And he dressed very casual. So for him, I'm like, bro, you gotta be in a suit because they're like, whose kid is this? This is not bring your kid to work day, literally. That's how they were treating him.
Jonathan M. Hall:So he was brilliant and had a product that was great, but he couldn't was hard for him to get over the hump, so he's working from behind. So think about it. You could be brilliant. You walk into the room, but but but you're already working through this mentality. You know?
Jonathan M. Hall:And then finally, people go, oh, well, maybe he does know something. You know what I mean? So for those folks that it's not your thing, that's okay. It's important. Be intentional.
Jonathan M. Hall:Be well groomed. Figure out something that fits. And, of course, if they don't have a stylist like myself and you go into a store, you know, there are certain stores you can go to where people should have that knowledge. Not every store. But there are certain stores, don't be afraid to ask for help and say, hey.
Jonathan M. Hall:Does this fit? Help me. I need it for this particular situation, occasion. This is kind of my style. Or if you have a favorite person, you go, I'm kind of looking for a look like this person.
Jonathan M. Hall:You know, I'm trying to look like, you know, Michael b Jordan. I'm trying to look like Maxwell. And and but not every place is gonna have that type of service these days.
Rod Brinson:Right. But you hit something really, really important there. You said I'm trying to look like this person or I have this style in mind. One part that people don't understand about branding is it's okay to have models or people that you aspire to be or actors that have a certain type of character or role in a film that you will put on your mood board to kinda align with the type of brand you want. Because I think a lot of people can get confused and they think, oh, well, I need to look a certain way because they need to see me like this only.
Rod Brinson:Yeah. But there's a balance. Right? Because some people just like to dress a certain way.
Jonathan M. Hall:Mhmm.
Rod Brinson:And so they're caught with the the dichotomy of do I dress how I want to dress based off of my personality or do I dress how I want to be seen and who I want to be seen as? How would you tell somebody to navigate those waters? Right? Like one person is a flower child and they just like dressing like a hippie and, you know, putting on whatever they wanna put on and no matter what because it's just their personality. Yeah.
Rod Brinson:But they're going through a special occasion where they need to kind of step it up a little bit and clean up their act. But they feel discombobulated because it's like they're going against their own self. So how would you navigate or suggest somebody navigate those waters where they don't want to dress that way but they know they need to?
Jonathan M. Hall:That's a great question. One of the things I do for my clients is I started with a questionnaire just to kind of get some information from them, you know, and ask them that question. You know, is there a person that you like, you know, that you want to emulate as far as their look? And that's just a guideline. And then also sit down and do a complimentary, you know, consult with them just to get some more information and make a recommendation.
Jonathan M. Hall:Well, the reason I do that is that I'm learning about that person because I don't have a cookie cutter process and I tailor make everybody's experience because everybody's different just like you said. Also, I'm gaining credibility because I'm listening and I'm learning about them. And so based on the things I listen and learn, I know about their style, some things they like and don't like. I know where they're trying to go and what they're trying to do. So that's important.
Jonathan M. Hall:So you need to understand in this process as you're growing and getting better, you do have to stretch yourself. That's just it. That's just us getting better anyway. If I'm working out in a gym, if I'm if I'm if I'm banging 50 pounds, you know, curls, and I'm and I start out, I can do five reps, and I'm up to 15 reps, maybe I should bump it up a little bit. So it's a stretch.
Jonathan M. Hall:It's the same thing when you talk about your brand and your image. There may be times where you go, you know what? I usually don't like wearing white shirts because I always get something on them. Maybe I need to just figure out how, you know, not to
Rod Brinson:eat this
Jonathan M. Hall:particular event or maybe wear a bib or maybe figure out how to eat, you know, something. You know? And maybe stretch, you know, or maybe you say, I never wore turtlenecks because I always did as a kid, and I didn't like that. Well, you're not a kid anymore. You're grown.
Jonathan M. Hall:Right. So grow up. Yeah. So so there will be a stretch. There will be a stretch, and that's what I help people do.
Jonathan M. Hall:Now you can also stretch and still be you. I'm not asking you to be somebody else, but I am asking you and encouraging you and pushing you to be a better you. And that's what we're doing. Oh,
Rod Brinson:that's so good. I'm not asking you to be somebody else, but I am encouraging and stretching you to be a better you. Yep. Oh, that's so good. And I think so many people get caught up because they feel like they have to reinvent themselves when in reality, you're just finding out who you truly are and being the best version of that.
Rod Brinson:Yep. So we had a question in the chat. I wanna make sure we bring it up. Looks like LJ Marin Marin. Maybe I'm saying it wrong.
Rod Brinson:I apologize. Is that my friend, Marinelli Leslie? I don't know. Can you recommend some stories some stores where you can get that kind of style and service. I think you mentioned some style and service.
Rod Brinson:So that's the question.
Jonathan M. Hall:Northam's is known for that. So Northam's is a great place, to get that kind of feedback. And, of course, we live in this Atlanta area, so there's a lot of stores, especially, yeah, just in Atlanta area. We we are fortunate to have a lot of stores that offer great service. So I would go to a Nordstrom's, even a Banana Republic or a J.
Jonathan M. Hall:Crew, they still are good. You know, dealers used to be. They still do. It's just that some of these stores, they are cutting back on their staff. So a lot of so and some of those situations depend on the day that you go.
Jonathan M. Hall:You may not get the same service. You know what I mean? But definitely, Dillard's, somebody like that. Nordstrom's is still really good about that. A Bloomingdale's, but also like a J.
Jonathan M. Hall:Crew and a Banana Republic, those folks. And some of those stores offer a styling service. So you may go and say, hey. Do you offer a styling service where I could come back at a certain time and, you know, have somebody assigned to me? And some of them offered at no charge.
Jonathan M. Hall:So I would definitely ask those stores, do they offer that service and, ask for assistance when you go there. Now it does help if you don't go in on a Friday and you have a Saturday night event. That's kind of helpful if you don't put that kind of pressure on them. It's also helpful if you have an idea of what you're looking for. Have a picture.
Jonathan M. Hall:Say, hey. I want a suit like this. Right? I want to look I do you know this this this actress? Yeah.
Jonathan M. Hall:I wanna look like her style. Let's pull up her Instagram real quick, and let me give you some ideas. So I would add that you would help them help you. And most of the times, if you can just give them a little help, that can be fantastic. So that's what I would encourage.
Jonathan M. Hall:So hopefully that helped out.
Rod Brinson:That's good. Yeah. I remember you recommending some of these stores to me, and I I call myself going to get some shoes one day. I feel like and and looks like somebody put it in the chat. Neiman Neiman was the place you sent me to.
Rod Brinson:And I thought to myself, why why did why did he send me here? I don't belong in this place. I was fine when I walked in. You know, I'm on the escalator. I'm looking around like, oh, this place is stylish.
Rod Brinson:This is nice. There's like a bar downstairs. I was like, oh, man. Why haven't I been here before? And then I picked up one item and I saw the price tag.
Rod Brinson:And I was like, okay. This is why I've never been here. I put that item down real fast and went back up the escalator. They were like, don't need anything? No.
Rod Brinson:I don't need nothing. Okay? I need to get out of here is what I need to do.
Jonathan M. Hall:So Yeah. I'm joking, but Yeah.
Rod Brinson:The seriousness of that topic is that, you know, styling cost And and you you you have to be prepared for the expense of investing into that look as well, you know. You know, but my my my I guess my thought is always, you know, what's more expensive? The opportunity you lost because you didn't look the part or this jacket that you need to wear so that you can look the part?
Jonathan M. Hall:You know
Rod Brinson:what I mean? Like and some of that stuff is intangible and it's not really a metric you can just say, oh, yeah. Because I spent, you know, $1,500 on a suit that caused, you know, me to get this deal. But I guarantee you, if if you don't spend that $1,500 on a suit and you try to go the cheap route, you know, I know I'm not saying you gotta spend $1,500, but you get my point. Yeah.
Rod Brinson:It's it's important to make the look like all that stuff absolutely matters at the end of the day. Don't know why I didn't get a promotion. I didn't get a callback for the interview. Well, maybe it's because you went to the call looking like boo boo the fool. I mean, it's possible.
Rod Brinson:I'm just saying. You know? So to that point, I know you probably also know like some tips and tricks from a, you know, savings point of view with people who are on a budget. Would you recommend them just kind of getting one piece at a time, saving up to get something really nice, or does it really just depend on a case by case basis?
Jonathan M. Hall:Man, great questions. I could talk about this all day. So one of the advantages of hiring somebody like me is that because I'm not bound to a particular store, you know, and because I'm kind of weird this way, know a lot of different stores and prices and what they offer and, you know, I try to adhere to people's budget. So again, it depends on what you're trying to do. You know, if you have one event coming up, then, for example, I had a client that said, I have a very important evening event that is formal that I need to attend.
Jonathan M. Hall:This is not something I normally do, so I took them to a particular store. For example, it was Joseph A. Bank. Joseph A. Bank has a wide variety of suits.
Jonathan M. Hall:This was a male client and they have dinner jackets, tuxedos, all that kind of stuff. Well, the way that their structure works, they often have sales. So they could have a dinner jacket that's normally $300 and it's on sale for $99 Well, just because I know how the structure works. I know the managers there. So I took him there and got him a $300 dinner jacket for $99 got him a pair of tux pants for $100 So for $200, he looks like he's in this fantastic tuxedo, right?
Jonathan M. Hall:You know, so it depends on the situation what you need. If you're trying to build a wardrobe from scratch and you're trying to redo your image, I would do what you and I did, do a closet consult, you know, see what you have so you're not duplicating things. But, man, it depends on
Rod Brinson:When y'all
Jonathan M. Hall:wear clothes. Yeah. It it depends on if if you're what kind of, environment you're in at work. But I will say there are some things that people always need, especially men. You should all all every man should have a nice navy suit, period.
Jonathan M. Hall:He should have a nice navy suit. If he if he has no suits at all, you start with a navy suit, then go with a gray, and then go with a black just as an example. If you have zero on
Rod Brinson:that really quick, though, because, you know, I've always maybe it's, you know, growing up in poverty, my mindset is always have a black suit first so you can always wear it to a funeral. Why did you say blue? Why did you say navy blue?
Jonathan M. Hall:That's a great question. The the the navy blue is more versatile. So the navy blue can be in the daytime in an office setting. You could you could dress it up and still wear it in the evening. You can put a bow tie with it and wear it to a wedding and just put a regular tie with it and wear it to a funeral because it's it's a darker in color.
Jonathan M. Hall:It's just more versatile. A black suit is more formal. Wedding, evening wear, funerals only. If you wear a black suit to the office and and, again, it's because on wire, it's kinda weird like this. But if you wear a black suit, he's like, oh, you're going to a funeral for lunch?
Jonathan M. Hall:No. I'm just kinda it's like, oh, you know? So, you know, it was weird. You know? So so, again, you could wear a navy suit.
Rod Brinson:Going to funerals all the time.
Jonathan M. Hall:So you can wear a you can wear a navy suit, or you could do a gray the same way. You know what I mean? So, yeah, where the black is more specific and not as versatile. So a lot of times when I have clients that are really trying to build a wardrobe, I start out with things that are more versatile. Like, everybody needs a dark pair of denim jeans.
Jonathan M. Hall:A dark pair of denim jeans are more versatile. So you could put a nice sports coat with a dark pair of denim jeans, and you've dressed it up instantly. If you have a lighter pair of denim, they are more casual, so you don't have as much versatility. So it's little things like that. Dark pair of denim jeans, everybody needs, you know, every man needs a navy suit, a gray suit, then go black, and then he can go and do other wild things.
Jonathan M. Hall:And so even for ladies that work in an office setting where they may have to wear a suit, I would I would recommend the same color style, you know, but they have more options. But, but, yeah, that's some of the basic things, and that's why it's so important to understand where you are and understand and where you're trying to go. It makes sense in life. So if I'm doing lifestyle coaching, I'm like, okay. Where are you right now?
Jonathan M. Hall:Well, I'm a senior manager, but I'm trying to become, you know, a c suite. Okay. So this is where you are, where you're trying to go, and why do you want to get there? Do you think it's just for money? Do you think it's what my parents said?
Jonathan M. Hall:Do you think you know? Okay. Well, let's talk about that. Is that really where you want to be, or do you really want to be an entrepreneur? Well, I really want to go back to school and get my doctorate so I could be a professor.
Jonathan M. Hall:Okay. So well, since we're talking about lifestyle coaching, why don't we take a step in that direction versus what you think you should be doing? So, you know, those are it's all about questions. And it goes back to your branding and image, man. When you're talking to people, you ask them questions and you're really sincere about it, that's how we help people get to where they want to go.
Jonathan M. Hall:You ask them questions. They're hearing their voice. They're hearing their name, and you're helping them.
Rod Brinson:That's
Jonathan M. Hall:so And you walk away. They may not they may not remember your name, but they'll be like, dang. Who is that?
Rod Brinson:Who is
Jonathan M. Hall:that? Who what just happened here? You know? So
Rod Brinson:And You hit on some really key points. So I wanna go back to a few as we close out because we got about you know, we could talk about this forever as you mentioned. I wanna keep it to an hour. So we're gonna spend another thirteen, fifteen minutes. But one piece I definitely wanna tap on, you talked about the men and like, you know, definitely have a navy blue suit, definitely have the the dark blue jeans.
Rod Brinson:Right? I wanna tap on the women a little bit. You you you touched it, you know, slightly with the business suit piece and making sure it's the same color. But because of their diversity, because there's so many options. If you're out here posting consistently, showing up on video, following all the rules, and still wondering why your brand isn't breaking through.
Rod Brinson:It's not you. It's your strategy or the lack thereof. At Brinson Designs, we don't just make things look pretty. We build full spectrum brand ecosystems that actually move people to action. We work with founders who are tired of piecing it together and ready to get serious about their visibility, their messaging, their social media, their website, and their impact.
Rod Brinson:If that's you, we should talk. Not because you need another agency, not because I need you as a customer, but because you're finally ready to stop guessing. Visit brincidentesigns.com for more. Okay. Back to the episode.
Rod Brinson:I I want you to think of, like, what would be considered an essential for a businesswoman who's going to a networking event or maybe, like, she's in an industry where she's starting to try to make a name for herself, whether it's in the office, whether it's, you know, out at a lounge. The style that she should dress in while still being able to maintain her own balance and be herself, that's important, right? So what does that look like? Are there essentials, you know, where she can be comfortable but she could still be, you know, stylish? So have that in your head.
Rod Brinson:But I wanted to go back to what you said about branding. You know, when I I I was thinking about it as you were talking. Whenever I take on a new client, we sit down and we talk and ask questions. I consider it a discovery call. Mhmm.
Rod Brinson:Because I'm discovering who they are truly and what they truly desire. I'm asking the pertinent questions to understand their heart. But in the process of asking that, I also consider a discovery call because they are discovering some things about themselves. What they truly desire. Like you said, the young guy who say he really want to
Jonathan M. Hall:go to med school.
Rod Brinson:You know, we always get to those type of questions eventually because you might start off by saying, Hey, I want to start a business. And by the end of it, I'm like, is that really what you want to do? It sounds like, I want to be an actress, you know, or whatever it might be. And so by asking those pertinent questions and truly caring about their outcome, which is the whole goal of me sitting down with them, I can then help to create a path to help them get there. Right?
Rod Brinson:But you don't get to that place without asking the questions and diving a little bit deeper and staying on points. Know, like I think, you know, going back to when we first sat down to talk in the coffee shop, and then we're gonna get back to the woman question that I asked. I think during that time, if I'm not mistaken, you were on a corporate journey. Yep. And you know, I won't go back to the whole conversation, but I feel like the organicness of me asking questions during that session led you to start thinking about things a little bit differently, which led to like the birth of what you got going on in terms of like being a stylist, you know, lifestyle.
Rod Brinson:Because you you said it all out of your mouth. I didn't give you anything you didn't have. Right? You said, yeah, I feel like I'm changing people's lives from the inside out. And I'm like, that's it.
Rod Brinson:So it wasn't that I was just giving you all of the nuggets and wisdom. You had the nuggets and wisdom within you. You just needed somebody to pull it out a little bit and help kind of make it a visible thing that's accomplishable. So anyway, I brought that up just to say, if anybody's on here listening and wondering like, man, I wonder what my brand is. Your brand is you.
Rod Brinson:Yeah. Your brand is all the elements of you. The music you like, the food you like, you know, whether you like to dance or not, the type of jokes you find humorous, you know, the type of movies you wanna see. Every facet of you is you. There are no there's no such thing as the corporate version of me and the at home version of me.
Rod Brinson:If there is, that's a double life.
Jonathan M. Hall:Yeah.
Rod Brinson:What does the bible say about the man with a divided mind or, you know, a double minded man? A lot. Right? Yeah. Go read it for yourself.
Rod Brinson:I'll put the scripture out later. But here's my point. It's okay to operate more professional in a more professional setting, to dress more professional in a more professional setting. But I think it's also important to build up the person that you are so that you can be the same in or out of the office. It's not a thing where you just turn into this magical one person just because you have to go clock in at a nine to five.
Rod Brinson:You should be the same person that you are at home. And if you're not, then work on it and get better at it. So that said, I'm gonna get off my preaching horse and go back to this question I asked you. A lot of women listening in live, I know there's gonna be some women on the replay. What would you say is essential?
Rod Brinson:Like the the suit was for the man and the dark jeans for the the man. What would you say is essential for the woman's wardrobe?
Jonathan M. Hall:That's a great question. I early on when I started my business, man, it's probably been almost nine years now. I was specifically for men, and I was just doing it along with my corporate gig. But shortly after we met and I left my corporate gig, I started doing lifestyle coaching and also added women. And then I added my niece to help me, Stacy Morris, Stacy the Beautiful, to help me with women.
Jonathan M. Hall:And so I learned more about that really in the last couple of years. And so one of the things that I've learned about women is that, especially if they're, like, in a corporate setting, I like a nice suit, but women's suits are cut differently. You know? So you can have a single breasted or a double breasted suit, one button, two button. What I like about women's clothing, there's so many more options.
Jonathan M. Hall:And what you could do is that you may start out with that navy suit pantsuit. I like the pantsuit. And you could have a scarf, a belt, or just some slamming shoes. And I just love that little spice that women can add to their clothing because accessories seem to be so much more abundant and accepted. So that's what I love about women's clothing, what I would recommend.
Jonathan M. Hall:Yeah. You may have maybe the navy suit, but, man, those shoes are like, damn. You know what I mean? And so I I like that about women's clothing, the scars, the belts, the bags, those type of things is what really, yeah, that I would recommend for them. And, again, it depends on, the setting, the environment, and and also the DNA and the culture of the company.
Rod Brinson:That's good. You mentioned bags. I know we got a lot of designer bags out here and stuff. Do you do you think that the the the thousand dollar bags make a difference in a in a you know, how they make an impression without opening their mouths when they walk in a room or not really?
Jonathan M. Hall:Man, I gotta plug on my phone. I'm about to lose power. But what I would say about the cost of clothing is that there are situations where you get for what you pay for. There are definitely so let me just say this real quickly. Some of the outlets are really good, and some of them are outlet to outlets.
Jonathan M. Hall:So if you're gonna have like, I love Coach, and I love their outlets because they have similar quality. I love Cole Haan and their outlets because of similar quality. I love Polo Ralph Lauren and their outlets. I love what those companies stand for, especially Polo Ralph Lauren in in today's society as well. So I would say that it needs to be quality, but sometimes you gotta hunt for it.
Jonathan M. Hall:And that's the advantage of having a stylist, somebody like me to do that hunting for you. It needs to be good quality. That bag does not to be need to be $1,500. That bag should not that bag should not be $25 unless you went unless you went to unless unless you went to a thrift store in a nice part of town, and it's a, you know, Louis Vuitton bag that somebody just handed down. So, again, early in my life, I've always wanted to dress nice, but I definitely had to go to the thrift store before it was cool, and I want to dress nice.
Jonathan M. Hall:I used to go to the thrift store so much that I could just go to the shirt rack and just feel with my hand the quality of the shirt, and I knew this shirt is a % quality. I know the type of cotton. That's a good shirt. And so I just wanna say that to people that, you know, everything is not always as it seems. You know what I mean?
Jonathan M. Hall:I I was at the thrift store because I had to be before it was cool. You know? Now it's a little more acceptable. You know? And so, you can definitely go to the thrift store and and find some stuff.
Jonathan M. Hall:You just gotta hunt a little bit. So yeah.
Rod Brinson:I love that. I love that. As we wrap up, man, and and I I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Number one, I will say that, I was that guy on the bus in the play clothes. Yeah.
Rod Brinson:I didn't have the privilege of shopping when I was that young. And then secondly, my kids are like I don't know. The age group is just as. They like going stuff that nobody even thought of and every day. So but they also wear hoodies in the summertime and teeny bopper shirts in the winter.
Rod Brinson:So I mean, I don't really I don't really understand them at all. But, yeah, that's cool. But, yeah, man. So I appreciate you. For those that are just curious about, you know, who you are and how they can find you, whether they wanna work with you or just, you know, get you to come speak at one of their, you know, engagements because you also speak as well.
Rod Brinson:How can they find you and and and where should they go?
Jonathan M. Hall:Well, I have a great website. Thanks to Rod Brinson Design. So you go to JonathanMHall.com. Jonathan, j 0 n a t h a n, m as in money, hall as in hall of fame, Jonathan M Hall Com. And there's all my stuff to get my social media.
Jonathan M. Hall:You can, sign up for me to do wardrobe styling. You can sign up for me to do lifestyle consulting. You can sign up for me to come be a speaker, and, just go to my website, JonathanM.Hall.com, and I, love to help you be a better you.
Rod Brinson:Oh, yeah. You definitely have helped me, and I highly recommend him, because he's he's great at what he does. That said, man, I gotta find a way to get some acronyms that make sense for me. You said M is for money, H is for hall hall is in hall of the fame. Like, Ride let me see.
Rod Brinson:R is for yeah. I'm a come up with that. I'm a I'm a figure that out for next time and be ready to go. Okay? I don't have a m for money, but we're gonna find a way to put that in there somewhere.
Jonathan M. Hall:Yeah. And I gotta get a studio like you. I just have an office here, you know, and so, yeah, I gotta get it. I gotta step it up and get a studio like you.
Rod Brinson:Listen, man. I'm a tell you this and I'm a be done. Like, I really I'm really I'm this close to being able to go live on all of the channels like LinkedIn, Facebook, all at the same time. The only reason I haven't done it is because I don't want to wear headphones when I do these. And I have to because of the feedback and everything, but I'm gonna eventually be broadcasting to the whole world from this very chair.
Jonathan M. Hall:So Yeah. I'm excited for you, man. I'm proud of you. I thank I'm so appreciative of what you're doing. You're an inspiration.
Jonathan M. Hall:That that talk we had in the coffee shop has meant a lot. You know, I take notes from you, and thank you for pushing me to do more on social media, to do more and, you know, speaking engagements and styling people just to think bigger. And I think it's important that we understand that that quirkiness about you, it could be really that gift that somebody else need. So I think we need to think about that quirkiness. I thought the quirkiness of the way I like to dress, the detail, how I had to help things a certain way.
Jonathan M. Hall:I realized it was a gift that god has given me and that he's equipped me to help other people with it. So I would encourage you. If you get nothing else out of this, think about that thing and think about it could be a gift to others. And, let's not sit on it. Let's make it.
Jonathan M. Hall:Let's help other people. It's about others and taking care of others. I promise you, the lord will take care of you.
Rod Brinson:I love that. Last thing I'm gonna say on that, man, everybody is unique. Like Jonathan just said it, it doesn't matter how many people are doing the thing you're doing, you could still have your own lane and your own brand because nobody, and I do repeat, nobody can do what it is you can do the way that you can do it.
Jonathan M. Hall:That's right.
Rod Brinson:Alright, Jonathan, appreciate you guys.