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Hosted by Jack Pavia & Romney Donald, Community Ties dives into conversations with people who have vision, drive, and passion, and choose to invest it in Norwalk. Presented by Nancy on Norwalk, the podcast looks to highlight the stories of people, businesses, and organizations in Norwalk.
Welcome to Community Ties, a
Nancy on Norwalk podcast.
I'm your host, Jack Pavia.
I'm a student at American
University and passionate
advocate for thriving towns and
cities.
I love nothing more than talking
to people who care about their
community and seek to lift it
up.
Using the platform of the show,
I'm going to facilitate
conversations with people who
have vision, drive passion, and
choose to invest it in Norwalk.
By conducting this dialogue, I
hope to search for truth and
meeting in our city and the
people who drive it.
A big thank you to the people at
Nancy on Norwalk will work
closely with me to get this
podcast up and running.
With that said, let's begin.
A few episodes ago, I spoke with
Desegregate CT Director Nick
Cantor and State Representative
Kadeem Roberts.
Among other things, we talked
about the housing and
homelessness crisis, HB5002, the
housing bill that made its way
through the State House only to
be vetoed by Governor Lamont,
and the search for the American
Dream.
The elusive idea that if you do
play by the rules in America, do
well in school, treat people
with respect, get a decent
middle class job, that you'll be
able to live in this country
with dignity through the raising
of a family and the enjoyment of
community.
Today, that dream is less
attainable than it once was.
The average age of people buying
their first home has grown to
38, roughly 10 years later than
the average age in the 1980's.
The incredible extent of our
income inequality today has LED
people to claim that we're in
the new Gilded Age.
As the share of the wealth of
the rich grows and the middle
class is hollowed out and the
poor continue to struggle, on
the very bottom end of the
spectrum lies our most desperate
fellow citizen. the United
States unhoused population has
grown tremendously since COVID
in 2024, totaling over 770,000
individuals.
In my view, it's a moral outrage
that we have the richest country
in the history of the world and
yet this problem still exists.
In Fairfield County alone,
hundreds are homeless.
Recognizing that housing is the
critical first step to regaining
stability.
Open Doors, an indispensable
Norwalk based housing and
homeless service organization,
provides resources for those in
our city who are on the path to
housing stability.
To do this, they offer
personally tailored case
management, emergency shelter
space, affordable housing, free
hot meals, tools to reach
financial stability, children's
resources, and a community
closet, all with the goal of
getting people set up with their
own stable home in mind.
I reached out to Open Doors with
a request for a client of theirs
that would be interested in
engaging in a podcast interview
in an effort to highlight one of
the voices that Open Doors
serves and received a prompt
response, including the contact
information of a client of
theirs, a woman named Davette.
I want to sincerely thank
Davette for joining me for this
episode of Community Ties.
I hope you enjoy her story and
insights in our conversation.
Davette, thank you so much for
coming on.
Thank you for having me.
So I want to start the
conversation by talking a little
bit about your background and
how you grew up.
So just to start on a sort of
high level, how long have you
lived in Norwalk and did you
grow up in the city?
I did not grow up in the city, I
grew up in Stamford, CT.
I moved to Norwalk going into
high school.
And what brought you over here
to Norwalk from Stanford?
Wow, I was troubled growing up.
I was outside in the streets
fighting, doing things, and my
mom was like, it's time for a
change.
So we moved to Norwalk.
I moved to Norwalk.
I was going to a school called
Holland High School, which is in
Mamaroneck, NY, which is a
school for kids that get kicked
out of all public schools in
Stanford.
So when I got, when I was, I
want to say about 14, I got into
a fight in the 6th grade on a
school bus and they hit me with
attempted murder.
You know, in the hood.
They got this little thing
called the street code.
So I lived by that street code
and I messed my life up.
And when I did that, that was
the worst for me because had I
would have told the truth, I
probably wouldn't be where I'm
at today.
But instead I kept that secret
with me for years.
I just recently told my mom the
truth about it.
So I rocked with it and went to
jail for it, did 5 1/2 years.
So while we were in Newark, I'm
the new kid, we move up here.
I go to Newark High School,
mind, I'm still troubled.
So from Newark High School, it's
up now.
I'm getting picked on, bullied
basically.
I don't want to fight this girl.
I'm telling her everyday when I
go home one day my sister's like
you from the village.
You don't come somewhere unless
somebody do something to you.
And right there it was like, oh
man, I go to school.
So when I went to school, I went
with a knife and told her I'll
kill you and your baby.
You keep bothering me.
So when I threatened her from
there, you're like, they're
like, Oh no, we can't have you
here.
Now.
I get kicked out of no public
schools.
So from there I go to Brakes
High School, which is an
alternative school.
Life is still spiraling for me
there.
So from there I still getting in
trouble going back and forth.
My mom goes back to Stanford,
cut the ankle bracelet off.
When I came home, told them I'm
not doing this no more.
Either you could come pick me up
or get this ankle bracelet you
choose.
She was like, oh I'll see you on
the day of probation.
I never let that go down.
So I cut the ankle bracelet off.
I was just back and forth from
Stanford to normal making
excuses of why I had to go to
Stanford.
My mom loved to travel, so she
was traveling, so it made it
easier for me to lie about it.
Where you going to go, David?
Oh, I'm going to stay up here in
Norwalk with Tamika, which was
my brother's girlfriend.
So I'll call him my step sister.
So I'll stay with her.
so-called, never stayed there.
And then when I was leaving her
house, where you going?
I'm going to my aunt house.
So when I got down there to my
aunt house, she was like, oh,
where where you at?
I was like, oh, my mom said I
didn't have to stay with you, I
could stay with Tamika.
So no one knew where I was at.
That led me to the street,
street streets.
And I started selling drugs at a
young age.
I got older.
I didn't come home till I was 21
years old.
Came out, went back again, came
out and one last time said I'm
done.
I told my mom, don't worry about
it, I'm OK and I'm going to go
to jail and lay down and do my
time.
That was the day that I decided
that this was not the life for
me anymore, so I switched it.
I can't.
I said I'm going to get my high
school diploma in jail.
I'm going to get so many
certificates.
That is outrageous.
And I accomplished that.
Like when I say I got so many
certificates, nobody really
knows me.
I still live this little hard
person lifestyle but it's not
me.
Took the time out to really get
to know me.
You know me, that ain't me.
What were your parents like?
My mom strick.
Everybody thought I was the
spoiled child.
Oh, she could get David.
I could get what she wants.
Or her mother give her anything,
which my mom did give me
anything.
I am not going to take that
away.
She did give it to me.
My dad, on the other hand, was
on drugs.
But I also was spoiled by him.
I was his world.
Like my dad was my best friend.
Mark.
My mom taught me no matter what
my dad did, if he was on drugs,
laid in the streets, you respect
him because he's your dad.
And I've always done that.
And my dad had a drug habit.
So this is where I get interest
when you ask how was your
parents?
I was spoiled like to the TI
didn't care if I got in trouble.
I knew my mom will be there.
My dad will come screaming,
raising hell.
No one's going to touch my
daughter.
So I can't say that I had a
rough childhood because I
didn't.
I grew up with love.
Spoil anything I want.
I had it.
I made it rough for myself.
My parents gave me enough rope
to hang myself.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
So I like had it easy.
Nothing was bad about my parents
to me.
If they was to ask me, do you
want to change it?
Never.
Maybe the fact that my father
did drugs, yes, but I had the
best relationship with him.
When you were a kid, what were
you passionate about?
Were there things in school
outside of school?
Basketball, Basketball.
Basketball, I walked around with
a basketball.
If anybody knows me from the
village, I walked around with a
basketball, bouncing it
everywhere I went.
I wanted to play basketball.
That was my passion, Basketball,
and to just get out the hood,
that was my passion.
Did you have any role models
when you were a kid?
No, my role model was my mom and
my dad and my brothers and
sisters.
I had a lot of them.
Tell me about them, Tell me
about your.
Siblings Jesus I think alone
with my dad 12 I got a big
family on my dad's side, a big
one.
I love them to death I have a
brother and sister on my mom's
side.
I love my sister to death.
Me and my brother was tight.
Things got rough.
Still my brother though.
But you know, brothers and
sister issues, we get over those
things.
How many siblings do I have?
I can't even tell you that.
I can't even tell you bro.
You're just going to have to
show it to one of my cookouts or
parties one day.
Actually we were having one
September 20th.
Be there.
Unfortunately, I'm going to be
back down in DC.
Man, you'll be like, whoa, it's
your family.
Yeah.
Did you have any teachers that
inspired you in school?
Hated school bro.
What?
What did you hate about it?
The kids.
The kids.
Sometimes the work.
The work.
I just hated getting up, going
to school.
I don't know why.
At one point I loved going to
school.
It was my world.
Then one day I hated school, and
I think it came to that day when
I had that little incident on
the school bus and caught
attempted murder when a girl
fell off in the 6th grade.
I think I just hated school then
for real, right after 5th grade
I hated school.
Didn't want to go try to
emancipate myself, all that.
So when you were in jail and you
decided I'm going to get my GED,
what was the shift in
perspective about school?
What were you feeling?
I got a son and I go hard on him
about school.
You told me you were at the
parents evening.
Yeah, that day, parent meeting,
parent meeting.
Yep.
So open house.
So I go hard on my son when it
comes to school.
And who am I to go hard on
someone if I didn't have a high
school diploma?
So when I got to jail, when I,
like I said, I told my mom, this
is it.
This is my last time.
I'm OK, I got this.
And I meant that when I said I
had got this.
I decided that I'm going to go
get my GD.
And then when I got to school,
when I got to jail, I was like,
I'm not getting no GEDI need my
high school diploma.
How many credits do I have?
Like even I, I had to think
like, was I even in school long
enough to get credits 'cause
like I said, I was bad.
I was in and out.
I went to jail at 14, turning 15
years old.
So it was like, was it good or
was it bad?
And I decided after that I'm
getting my high school diploma
and I did that 2019, I got my
high school diploma.
Congratulations.
Thanks.
It was rough, but I did it.
When you were a kid, did you
have any dream jobs?
I wanted to just, I wanted to
talk.
I wanted to be the politic.
I wanted to be the one on TV.
I was just pretty close.
Yeah, I'm almost there.
I was the one that wanted to
talk.
You're doing a good job.
Thanks.
What jobs have you worked?
I've done cleaning houses.
My first job ever was Macy's as
a kid, so I worked.
In the Stanford Mall.
Yeah, in the Stanford Mall.
I worked at Macy's, then I did
Victoria's Secrets.
I did a sneaker store, Champs,
up in Waterbury.
When I moved to Waterbury from
there.
It's been food industry ever
since then.
I always said I want to be that
little one.
I want to go on the TV too with
the food and make the plates
pretty, clean it up and decorate
it.
Like I wanted to make pretty
food.
I wanted to make my food art.
That was my dream basically.
Have you enjoyed the work that
you've done?
Some yes, some no.
A job is a job.
Sometimes I go in there thinking
I'm just here for the money.
Then others, oh I really enjoy
this.
This is what's up.
And like I did enjoy Abigail
Kirsch, I really did enjoy that
job.
I put my heart in it.
You said you have a kid.
Yes.
Can you tell me about them?
I have one son I did not have.
I did not have him.
I was in a relationship and she
had them.
And we've been doing this for 12
years now together.
And no we're not dating, not at
all.
We just Co parent so it works.
My son is my pride.
What's his name?
Kai.
Kai What are Kai's qualities?
What do you love most about him?
He's a genius to me.
This kid is very, very
intelligent.
I see it in other kids, but
there's something about him
that's very unique about him.
He has his own taste, his own
style.
Everything.
What is he passionate about?
Video games, of course.
In true boy fashion.
Yeah, video games.
He's passionate about video
games, but I'm never going to
forget when he was four years
old, his very passionate was to
wanted to go to Tokyo.
And I just always ask him what's
in Tokyo, bro, that you want to
go to Tokyo?
He said.
Well, they have better
technology, so he wanted to
learn about the technology and
things like that.
That was his passion, so maybe
that's why he's into video games
so hard.
I wouldn't be surprised
Nintendo's out there.
When I say he's smart with
technology and computers or
anything, he can help you.
He is very intelligent when it
comes to that.
So who knows, he might make it
to Tokyo one day.
I believe in him.
I'm sure he'll make it to Tokyo.
Oh, I believe he will.
That's how smart he is.
I really believe that.
So what school is he at now in
Norwalk?
West Rocks.
My son came from a charter
school, so this is first time
public school.
So I was like a little scary.
Little scary.
Yeah, for me it is.
I remember what public school
was like, that I don't want my
son to lose hope in school.
So tell me a little bit about in
and out of jail.
And you were telling me before
you were recording, I mean, the
experience of being dropped back
into the world with very little
direction.
You face housing insecurity in
your life.
You said you were going from
house to house.
You couldn't stay there more
than 14 days.
Correct.
So it's basically like this.
All right, You go to jail.
Imagine being locked up for 5
1/2 years.
The world's changed.
Your cities change, you know
nothing.
You don't even know how to fill
out an application for a child.
You think that GEL was preparing
us for society?
No, they didn't have those type
of programs back then.
I went to GEL at 1997, so
preparing me for the outside
world.
When I left them, it wasn't when
I came home.
Instead, I was scared because I
came from a confined quarters.
Certain amount of people, we're
not sitting in restaurants.
Everybody's not moving quick and
fast on you.
It's not a rush.
It's like thing, I thought I
always had to move fast and be
in a strict order in jail.
But when you got out to society,
it was like, whoa, why didn't
they compare us for this?
This is a completely different
pace of the world.
Totally different bro.
There's no one bringing you your
groceries, there's no one coming
to your aid, there's no one
bringing you your food every
day.
So basically when you're in
jail, it's like a camp life if
you ask me, everything's handed
to you unless you got money and
still then it's handed to you.
So to imagine to come outside,
are you teaching me how to save
my money, how to pay from rent,
how to pay bills, anything.
You're teaching me to spend my
money reckless while I'm in jail
because what you got commissary,
it's not teaching me oh, how to
save, how to put money in a
bank, how to when you get out
there, how to talk to people and
deal with other people.
Do they have programs to teach
you how to control your anger?
Yes.
But what jail also, like I said
to you in a car, it either make
you or break you and it did both
to me.
It made me and broke me.
So you were facing housing
insecurity in between multiple
jail experiences?
Or was there one time that was
specifically a long stretch of
not having a permanent place to
go?
So when I came home from jail,
you, you got this record.
No one wants you in their
apartment, their housing,
nothing.
They don't know nothing about
you.
You could have made this mistake
when you was a child.
Anything.
There's no second chance for
people like us.
They make it hard.
Our people are afraid of us.
Our oh, we don't want a criminal
living next door to us.
That's unfair to us.
Society didn't teach us to deal
with that neither.
They didn't like when we got
here.
It was like, what?
What do I do?
How am I going to deal with
society?
Society sure ain't going to
teach us how to deal with this.
Society that's labeled you
something right that you can't
shake.
I can't shake it off.
I'm forever a part of their
system.
No matter what I do, I turn
around.
I'll go try to get a job 06
months into it.
We didn't let you go because of
your history.
Oh, yeah.
The job application came back
before it came back.
I've been in here for like 6
months, bro.
Are you serious?
Yeah.
Background and work out.
All right, you're done.
Where did that happen?
A leisure ship, I was there for
like 6 months almost going into
a year and they were just like
Oh yeah, your background came
back we got to let you go that
was a job I enjoyed working in a
warehouse in Stanford that.
Breaks my heart.
Yeah, it gets tough.
I got a job working for housing
aid, like for nursing, like this
center, and they hired me.
I was like always, just only for
the background check.
Now I'm calling, I'm calling,
I'm calling.
No one wants to say nothing.
They're like, oh, did you get
your background check back?
We can no longer can accept your
application.
Are you?
So what does the system expect
you to do?
Sell drugs, prop people, because
that's what they're setting us
up to do.
That's what the system expects.
Instead they say, oh, we expect
them to come out there and we're
doing this and this and that and
to grab their life together.
I can't grab it if I was never
given the knowledge because I
was already stuck.
I've been here since I was 15.
You come home 21 years old.
What do I know?
I was a kid when I went in.
So now I'm still stuck at the
age of 15, at 21.
That's the part they don't get.
Whatever age you go to jail in,
you come out and you're trying
to make up ears.
You're facing these problems.
You don't have a permanent place
to go.
I was originally connected with
you through Open Doors.
So who first informed you of the
existence of Open Doors?
I would be like, I'm never going
to a shelter to get help.
I ain't sleeping in no shelter.
I ain't messing with no shelter.
Why?
Just never wanted to.
I heard bad things about
shelters, people getting raped,
touch kids were sleeping in the
open on cocks or floors.
I didn't want to be subject to
that when I could just sometimes
just go home to your mom, sleep
there safer, you'll be OK.
Me being gay, I just never want
to stay in the shelter.
So like I said, I was outside on
the streets selling drugs, doing
me for two years.
I will break nights, some nights
sleep from family house, from
family house.
And one day my boy was like, yo,
let's go to the shelter and get
some help.
It's right there.
Like the shelter.
He was like, yeah, open doors.
I'm like, boy, you bugging going
to damn shelter?
I was like, look at me like, I'm
going to the shelter and I'll
steal my clothes.
And he was like, Nah, I'm
telling you, man, you don't got
to stay there.
It's something called outreach.
And I say, yeah, how far are
they going to reach us?
He's like, yo, you always got
something to say.
Seriously, That's outreach.
So I took him up on his advice
about this.
Oh, my God, I'm gonna go see
about this outreach.
So I go see about outreach.
And sure enough, he was right.
Oh, they're going to help you.
And I went in there.
I was like, yo, I need to speak
to this guy named James.
And I'm like, what?
I'm like, yo, speak to him, lady
at the test name or so she's
like, what do you, what do you
need James for?
You need an appointment.
I'm like, no, I don't need no
appointment.
I need him.
You know what time you come in
And she's like, I I'll let him
know what's your name?
I'll tell her my name.
But when I see James outside, I
run down on James.
I'm like, yo, I'm homeless.
I need help, bro.
Like no one wants to help me
tell my little story, my
situation.
And he was like, I'm helping.
And I was like, yeah, right.
I didn't believe it.
Had you had people tell you that
before?
Yeah, I help you.
I got you.
Nobody helping me but me.
So like I said, I had this
routine every day.
I stayed with my cousin.
I went to the house and I will
come outside and it's just
church over there on Day St.
And I'll get on my knees every
day and say, God, if you help
me, I'll stop selling drugs.
I'll get myself together.
So James is like, you need a
job?
I'm like, yeah, everybody need a
job, bro.
I got a job and he's like, no, a
job.
And I'm like, yeah, I got a job,
James.
So me, I'm looking at him and
I'm like, huh, I keep, I said,
So what you think I don't have a
job?
Like will you get a check?
He's like, yes, I know.
I'm my own punch.
I'm my own entrepreneur.
So I used to tell him that
because every time I said I got
a job, he was like a real job.
I didn't understand what that
meant.
Get a real job.
So when I fairly realized what
he was talking about, get a real
job.
Like no, not selling drugs is
not a job.
And you told me in the car he
saw you for two years.
Two years doing this.
Two years.
So guess who else was watching
me for two years on the streets?
Good thing I got out, right?
Yeah.
So he's basically like, no, I'm
serious, a job.
And I'm like, no, I'm serious.
I got a real job, but he didn't
know I was working for Abigail
Curse, but still on the streets,
so he didn't know this.
So you were doing both?
Yes, because I needed money.
I needed to make ends meet.
I got a kid.
I got to take care of
everything.
So I did what I needed to do.
He's like, what are you doing?
And I'm like, that money comes
faster and better, and it's the
only one that will hire me with
my background.
So I did that.
And he was like, oh, OK, so you
got some bank accounts or
something, and I'm looking.
I'm like, yo, bro, you getting
real personal?
What's up with you?
And he was like, Nani, you know,
some bank stuff like this, you
know, you got to get in touch
with 211 and all this and that.
I said, so why you just didn't
say call 211?
You keep asking me about banks,
my money, making me nervous.
Bro, I told you, I don't trust
people.
So he's like, Nah, I'm gonna
help you.
Seriously.
I go, yeah, all right, whatever.
A month go by, I was like, yo,
somebody called me James.
He's like, yeah, you called the
two and I said yeah, somebody
told me.
He my case worker, son, ain't
you my case worker?
I ain't talking to him.
I got nothing to say to him.
So he's like, man, you got to
talk to him.
I said, Jen, I want to talk.
Nobody I want to talk to but
you, you said you going to help
me, so I expect you to help me.
Another month go by, we still in
the same situation.
Third month goes, he goes, oh, I
got you a place.
So we going to go look for
housing and stuff like this.
So we go look for housing.
I'm never going to forget this
still brought me.
It's a bridge for it to this
apartment bro.
Like when I say we could put our
hands out, touch the wall like
bro, it was like where?
Where would a bed go?
So when I roll out my bed, I got
to step into the kitchen.
When I roll out my bed, I got to
roll out the bed literally to
get to the bathroom.
This is how it's like this
apartment was.
So I'm like, James, not a shame
for me, but he's like, yeah, I
ain't gonna let you get that 4th
month Come.
Oh, I found something else.
Sorry.
He said, you know your little
PTSD Dah, dah, dah, dah.
Sister.
James.
Hi.
Cool.
Let's try.
This lady calls me.
She was like, oh, I got this
place where you're on
Bridgeport, but it's basically
with mental health issues.
No kids, no, nothing could come
there.
So I got a kid that ain't going
to work.
I don't got mental health
issues.
What's wrong with y'all?
So I called James back.
I said, what the hell are you
doing, bro?
I think I got crazy.
He was like, it's free, you
don't have to pay rent, bro,
what's wrong with you?
I'm like, I'm not that
desperate.
I have to find something else.
And we did that and he found
something else.
And when I say James found
something else, James found
something else and he was
working hard.
I was a pay to open doors.
I will come there every morning,
every day, chill out, hang.
And I had one friend, God rest
it.
So he just passed away.
Josh and me and Josh will meet
and every morning I come there.
Marcel, where's Josh?
James, where's Josh?
And Josh was like, oh, they've
had we know we got these
programs.
Let's go hiking.
So I will go on hikes with Josh.
JP James was still around when I
moved into my apartment.
When I got those keys.
I let's just go back there.
When he first told me and we
signed the paperworks and stuff
like that.
I went down and I'm like, James,
I got it.
He got the keys.
I got it.
I did it.
I did it.
He's like, so the worker, I was
working, which I'm like, yeah,
so I rung the bell the day that
I was going to move into my
apartment, I rung the bell, got
my keys.
I was the most happiest person
on earth.
But I say to myself, my next
step is the house.
Open Doors was very good to me.
I mean, when I got in there,
well, let's just say James
prepared me to how things will
work and how it will go and the
help that I needed.
He pointed me in a bright
direction.
He became he was a worker, but
he became my friend.
That was my boy because I never
believed in nobody.
And he was like, I'm going to do
it.
And he did it.
And it was like, whoa.
So why it really cares?
One of the things that I talk
about in the opening monologue
and also have talked about in
previous episodes, is this idea
of the American dream.
Can you tell me about what that
means to you?
What the dream of a lifestyle
that is not economically
stressed?
What does that look like?
Whoa, I could see it now.
It looks amazing.
Like, it looks so good, but the
one thing I always tell myself,
and I'm never going to forget
it, I'm not because I still have
family out there struggling.
You understand me?
Yeah.
So when I get this house, that
mean I got enough money, right?
Sure.
'Cause I'm not just going to get
the house and not have no money
to play with, right, 'cause when
you get the house, the toys
come.
The American Dream is often
personified in its physical form
as a house, but it means a
dignified life.
You're up there.
You heard what I said, so that
means I'm going to have the
money.
You're.
Going to have the money.
Yeah, I had the cars, the the
fancy things, right?
That that's my American dream.
But also don't let the dream and
the fame hype you because as
quick as you got it, it could be
taken.
So always remember where you
came from.
And I always say this, I don't
care if I get enough money.
I don't have to be rich, just
enough every holiday heavy kid
that I can help if it was their
birthday.
Every school I'm giving back.
If I just have to go to the hood
and open up a truck full of
turkeys and sneakers that kids
can't afford and get picked on
for, I'm going to be that person
to give it back.
So I need that house first.
I have to work on me because
when I get that house, I got the
money that mean a big job.
So my American dream is to live
in the house and take care of my
mom, but my real American dream
is to give back because I know
what it is to live in a hood.
You don't want your child
walking past crack vowels every
morning smelling piss, stepping
over a dope fiend, are scared to
go pass or outside.
So to stop it, you have to go
out there and fix your
community.
And what better way to do it is
me.
I've been there.
I've done this.
Were there any resources outside
of open doors that that you took
advantage of or or people
perhaps that that helped you
along the way?
Hell no there wasn't.
Nothing like open doors.
Don't get me wrong my family
hands down always going to be
there but any other resources or
help?
I had to be battered, beaten or
have a child to get help from
somebody else.
I didn't have no kid.
Like I said I Co parent and my
girlfriend got pregnant with my
son and that's how we did this.
So I didn't have no kid.
I didn't have no I wasn't wasn't
no one beating on me.
I didn't have no boyfriend.
I'm gay and so I didn't have the
abuse to get the help.
You didn't have to have none of
that when you get to open doors.
I didn't have to be abused, I
didn't have to have a child.
Nothing.
If it was too hot outside, they
allowed me to come in the
shelter and chill.
If it was too cold I could come
out and near and chill, but once
I became a part of the shelter
meaning outreach, I didn't have
to wait for those special days
anymore.
Still from this day I go in
there and chill with everyone
and talk and try to help them
with reach sources and try to
give them help.
So in my own way, like I said
because I got mines, I don't
think I'm better.
I'm still trying to go back to
the where I came from and help
them get there too.
We're all one of many.
Yes, I got to help them.
Let's dig into the point of
requirements for help, because a
lot of people have argued that
the reason for these
requirements is that they don't
want people to abuse the system.
But what you're saying is that
because of these requirements,
it prevents people who may need
the help but don't meet certain
specific requirements that have
been set out from getting it,
and so they have to put
themselves in a worse situation
in order to receive that help.
What is that incentivize?
I need to tell you something.
I'm from a hood where you don't
put yourself in vulnerable
situations, and I didn't care at
that moment.
I put myself out there.
To be straight from your dignity
and your pride and yourself is
kind of hard.
That was one of the toughest
things for me is to make myself
vulnerable because I wanted my
own place and I wanted to buy
and I couldn't get it.
And I noticed that they wasn't
giving housing to nobody.
You had to be mentally crazy on
drugs sleeping outside 24/7 to
get housing.
I just didn't think that was
fair.
And when I got the housing how
did I get this housing?
Had to tell them I'm homeless
don't got nothing sleeping
outside from house to house.
Sometimes I even hit them with
the, oh, I slept in train
station because you had to go
sit down and rest your brain for
a second to get up and go back
out there getting a struggle.
So I had to really humble myself
and make myself vulnerable to
get this help.
That mean eating the shelter
food coming everyday, you know
doing everything that I would
never in my life do.
How do people treat you when
you're in that position?
Because you walk around
somewhere like Bridgeport, for
example, or parts of South
Norwalk, and you see people and
they're sitting there and most
people just, you know, walk by.
I never got to experience that,
if I could be real, but I've
seen other people.
And I assume you've talked to
them too.
Of course I've gave them food,
I've gave them clothes, I've
gave them sneakers because I
know what it felt like.
I still have family, like I said
that love me.
So to be hungry, I don't know.
You understand?
I'm not going to say I know what
it feels like to be hungry.
I don't.
What do they say being treated
like that is?
Belittles them.
It must be dehumanizing.
It makes them not want to live
no more.
It also makes them create, I
want to say a protector.
So when they're out there in
society and I want to say a
protector, it's almost like they
start talking to nobody, an
imaginary friend, because they
want people to think that
they're crazy so that they don't
beat on them or pick on them.
So I have one friend, and I was
going to say his name, but he's
homeless.
And I always ask him why.
And he said because something
happened with his mom was on
drugs and he had to put hisself
out there.
And he said nothing wrong with
me, but society laid me.
Fritzel saying it.
Fritzel.
You know what?
I'm saying it, right?
Like a six, six friend.
Yes.
I can't even pronounce it.
Yeah, society named them that.
And I said, well, why you let
them do that, bro, ain't nothing
wrong with you.
Look, look at we having a normal
conversation.
You ain't twigging, twigging,
turn over nothing.
He said there ain't nothing
wrong with me, but they did it
and they put me on meds.
And he gave me these medicines
because I was afraid of living
on the street as a kid.
So I started talking to myself.
He said I used to walk around
with a sword and my sword was my
friend.
And from this day he's still
homeless, still does his little
thing and he goes, I don't want
to go to the shelter.
They don't help me.
No one helps me.
I'm I, I don't care.
But I also know that because he
was homeless and didn't have the
help, he really lost his self to
get him.
Like the other day I just saw
him.
Bro, go get your ideas.
The man.
Why do you want to help me?
I've got no idea.
I don't got nothing.
Because people are afraid of
them.
They think something wrong with
him.
He's he's on drugs, he's crazy,
he's hot.
Nothing wrong with this kid.
He just needs someone to listen
to him and got him the right
way.
People are afraid of people
living on the streets and being
homeless.
So the question that you ask,
you see me, you see how I'm
dressed?
I never, not once went out there
dressed like this.
I fit in with them.
I wore a pair of black
sweatpants, A hoodie, It's faded
brown.
A couple of my hoodies are
browned out from the sun.
I lived like them to see what it
was like for real, for real.
I sat on street corners with
them.
I had a friend ride by and was
like, yo, to my brother, what's
up with your sister?
I seen her Norwalk, man.
She was laying down on a corner.
What's up with her?
You see my sister?
Nah, you bugging and not my
sister.
They get.
And then when he see me looking
at me like and I'm like, yeah,
bro.
See, it's a long story coming.
I'm trying to I'm trying to see
what it feels like to be
homeless.
Like, really, really homeless,
right.
And what it feels like to have
to wait for a meal.
So they have two meals,
breakfast and dinner.
I lived with them like that.
Breakfast and dinner.
I wouldn't change.
I didn't come out flashy or
nothing.
The only time they seen me dress
is when they knew I had to be
somewhere important, court or I
was meeting somebody who had the
shelter that was coming.
And I felt like I needed to be
cleaned up.
And look, yeah, I got to show
off a little bit, you know?
But other than that, Nah, I'd be
humbled myself.
I belittled myself to become
what they are, to see what it
feels like to live like them.
And let me tell you, it ain't
easy.
People pick with them.
They throw things.
They won't even give you a
quarter.
I've tried that.
Tried asking.
I went to Stanford train station
with one of them.
Just like I told you, I dress
Jordans beat down.
I have a pair of Jordans that I
wore for 9-6 months, but I
wouldn't change nothing.
I'm telling you these was like
my favorite shoes for this
little situation that I took a
ride on and I am in the shelter.
I'm I mean I'm in a train
station.
I see this bird walk by and I'm
like, yo, get a quarter.
One dude looked at me and was
like he was like, I'll never
give you a quarter.
Somebody I knew.
I'm like, Nah, I'm really down
and out bro.
Like I got nothing.
It's like now got it sorry just
remember that walked up to
another guy didn't know him.
I was like excuse me just get
away from me get away from me.
I don't have nothing for you
stop begging.
Don't ask me for no money.
This is really how they get
treated.
One dude I'll pour druce on you
are seeing a bite of bagel was
like, oh, you want it?
If that's what you want money
for here, eat this.
Damn, since they really going
throughout there and I lived
this life with them for like 4
to 6.
Like I said, I think it took me
like 6 to four months.
I lived this society life with
them.
Like I made myself see what it
felt like for real, for real.
Yes, I was homeless, yes, I was
struggling, but a bum never.
And when I say a bum, it's
levels to calling someone a bum
and homeless.
There's you have homeless people
and you have bums and you have
struggles.
A survivor out there, and I mean
they will eat any and everything
down to maybe a human where
they're sleeping in woods with
tents on their own, bridges
hiding out on the top.
You see it all the time.
And when I got to live that
rats, roaches crawling over you,
this city doesn't care.
I really had to humble myself to
get there.
They treated me like shit.
So in your view, what are the
main causes of these various
levels of housing insecurity, of
homelessness?
Jail militaries also people
losing parents, runaway teens,
adults that where they child
can't even help take care of
them or they child cause the
problem for them to be outside
on the streets but they're
somewhere else living their
life.
That's the problem that's
causing this homeless in effect.
What do you think people or
institutions misunderstand about
homelessness?
Do I think people in the
institution misunderstand what
homeless is?
No, 'cause when we go to jail,
we're homeless.
They get 3 meals and a cop.
You have to wait for someone to
send you money, so you become
them already.
Then that's a struggle.
You have to learn how to make
food the things that you used
to, like eating chicken and
stuff like that.
So they become creative to make
chicken.
So I don't think anyone
incarceration, and I'm going to
speak for every woman
incarceration that I know.
I don't think we think we're
better than them or less than
them.
Because sometimes you have
homeless people that just goes
to jail just to get the cock in
the mill and a place to stay to
commit a crime.
And the system ain't even
looking at it like that no more.
Or they need medicine.
They can't get medicine.
What do you think we can do as a
society to make the biggest
difference possible in these
people's lives?
More programs, definitely more
programs, more shelters and more
help, more guidance.
Especially being locked up, we
have to really, really trained
them how to come out here to
society.
Scary.
How can you help them, honestly?
Take a person that's been locked
up for 25 years and they're just
coming home and they've been
locked up since I was 14.
You have computers Got fancy.
Phones don't even teach us how
to use tablets.
And they just got tablets in
jail, right?
No cell phones.
Everything is paper in jail.
There's no such thing as paper
in the outside world.
So why there's no programs
designed for this?
Because they're criminals.
They should not know what it
feels to live on the outside.
Grant you you got some that I
never see the outside if they
make it.
But what gives the government or
anybody the right to say that we
shouldn't have the knowledge of
this?
What would you say to people
right now who are struggling and
perhaps in even more situations
than the one you faced?
Whoa, there's help out there,
guys.
There's help.
Go to open doors in Norwalk.
Go to Open Doors.
You heard it here first.
Go to.
Open doors in Norwalk like there
is help.
And when I say I'm a thorn and
Open doors Norwalk, I still
won't leave them.
You thought I never got a crib,
a house, nothing.
I'm there every day.
This is how good they are.
Go to open doors.
There's a community.
No, there really is a community.
And I mean, when you get to know
someone, everyone sticks
together down to the stops.
They're pretty, pretty cool.
I love all the stops there.
I know they be like that.
God darn, David.
She gets so odd.
I'm going there for every little
thing, man.
Every little thing.
I even volunteer myself there.
Yeah, like I needed something.
And I started going there and
doing a little volunteer work
there.
I'm telling you, Open Doors is
where it's at.
There are probably a lot of
people who are listening to this
podcast right now and hear your
story and are inspired by the
work that Open Doors is doing.
How can they volunteer
themselves?
Well, all right, so I how I
started volunteering myself is I
was on the state getting food
stamps and they cut me off.
So they told me I didn't have
enough work or I wasn't working,
which I am.
I was like I said, I had a job
and oh, you have to do almost
like 20 or 80 hours worth of
community service to keep your
food stamps.
So I went down there and asked
Marcel, how do I say how do I
give my cell phone community
service without being in
trouble?
And she was like, what?
When I first asked him, she was
like, what did you do?
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
I'm not in no trouble.
I'm volunteering myself.
And I basically did it for
nothing because after I realized
they wasn't giving me the food
stamps back, I still went and
started doing it until I got a
little bit busy and couldn't do
it no more.
But they have this little thing
I don't know if they still have.
It's like a little tablet you
walk at and it says if you want
to volunteer, you put your name
up there the time and you can
volunteer yourself.
If you want to go down there,
you can definitely go down there
and volunteer.
You can, you can also volunteer
as into giving clothes, food.
You just call up the desk and
let them know that you have
donations and stuff like that
and you can give it to open
doors and they accept almost
everything.
You have lived a very hard life.
Yes.
What is your outlook on the
world?
Do you think it's a merciful
place?
Are you optimistic about our
collective spirit as people?
Right now, I'm in my most
happiest place in life.
I was not there at one point.
I wanted to commit suicide.
I've done it.
I've tried it in jail,
everything.
And once I'm at open doors, say
that again.
Once I'm at open doors, yeah, I
got open in a good way.
I got to open and it made me
realize a lot of things and look
different.
Open doors helped me with my
lifestyle.
Like I really flipped it around.
So I'm like happy with my life
right now.
Like there is nothing in this
world right now that can take my
joy unless they take my keys.
The keys to your apartment.
That's it.
That's it.
That's it, R unless they take
away open doors and the people
that's there the the the people
that work for open toys love.
When I say love, love, it's like
a family.
No one misjudge you.
No one judges you.
No one look at you different.
I don't care if you walked in
there and you were green and
half of you were purple.
They're like, yeah, we love you.
Am I gonna call you Mr. Green
One?
They come on here.
Let's hug you purple.
What's the kind of love?
Do you understand what I'm
saying?
It's just it's one of those
love, like if you ever need help
and I mean ever need help, Open
Doors is the place.
I've never got help from anyone.
And I mean, they're like, oh,
I'm going to help you.
I got you.
I'm going to do this.
Open Doors is where it's at
Norwalk and they will never turn
a cheek, ever.
Davette, thank you so much for
this.
Thank you.
This episode of Community Ties
couldn't have happened without
the work of the board of Nancy
on Norwalk, particularly that of
Justin Matley, Sean Fox, and
Ashley RK Smith.
Nancy on Norwalk is powered by
its donors who keep the
organization's lights on.
Of course, I want to
particularly thank Dave at for
coming on the show and engaging
in this dialogue.
Access to recording equipment
was provided by the Westport
Library's Verso Studios.
Special thanks to Travis Bell
for showing me how it all works.
I highly encourage listeners to
look into the resources that the
Westport Library offers if
you're at all interested in
audio, music, or podcasting.
Of course, always support public
libraries.
To everyone out there listening,
thank you for tuning in.