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Seth Baumgartner and Jason Van Leuven open the mics for your crop steering and cultivation questions.
Kaisha [00:00:01]:
What's up, gromies? Welcome to AROYA office hours, your source for free cannabis cultivation education. I'm your moderator, Kaisha, and this is episode 111. Shout out to our live viewers on YouTube and Instagram, to everyone tapping in on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Thank you for your support, and if you like the pod, drop us a review. We appreciate your feedback. We got Jason in the studio today. Jason, how you doing?
Jason [00:00:26]:
I'm doing great.
Kaisha [00:00:27]:
Fantastic. Well, we are so excited because today's a very special episode. Office Hours is all about empowering the growers out there with science based education. And at AROYA, we believe in using education to create lasting impact. That's why for the second year, we partnered with cookies University to help guide the students towards achieving a greater understanding of how to grow quality cannabis at scale, consistently and repeatedly in this industry. So we would love to welcome to the show Cookies University class of 2024. Welcome.
Yancy [00:00:57]:
Thank you. Thank you.
Jason [00:00:59]:
Yeah. Well, maybe we should just get to start off with Ron Robin. Give us your name, where you're from, and maybe just a quick snippet of your experience or cookies.
Brian [00:01:10]:
My name is Brian Mitchell. I'm from South Carolina. Cookies, you was an awesome experience. I'm fully immersed into cannabis cultivation and the whole business from seed to sale, so it was pretty dope.
Jillian [00:01:23]:
I'm Jillian from New York City. What was the second part of the question about cooking?
Jason [00:01:28]:
You. I was just saying something about it.
Jillian [00:01:32]:
Oh, all right. So something about Cookies U. It is a program that I feel like walks of social equity talk that a lot of these companies talk about, but they're not walking, and they can take note, not for nothing.
Sydney [00:01:47]:
My name's Sydney.
Sydney [00:01:48]:
I'm from Dallas, Texas. Cookiesu has given me opportunities I never thought were possible coming from Texas, so I'm just truly grateful to have been a part of such an amazing program. Just offers so much as far as networking and, like, being hands on with the plan.
Vicky [00:02:05]:
Hey, I'm Vicky J. I'm from CG County, Maryland. And I would say that Cookies U was a life changing experience for me. It was great to see cultivation at a larger scale. It was cool to live in the hills and see all the beautiful scenery. And I also would say that I was just. I'm very fortunate to have that experience.
Yancy [00:02:26]:
What's up? My name is Yancy. I'm from Buffalo, New York. Cookies U was just an amazing program from the moment we got there to the moment we left. Actually, they're still helping us out even after we left. So, nothing. No better program than Cookies U. Definitely.
Kaisha [00:02:44]:
That is wonderful. I love that. Actually, let me go ahead and direct this question starting to you, Yancy. Like, can y'all describe for people who don't know what cookies university actually is?
Yancy [00:02:55]:
Yeah. So cookies university is actually, like, from seed to sales. So they teach you everything from pretty much cloning to cultivating. They do extracting. They even do, like, photography. They had JB come down and pretty much spent the day with us, you know, showing us, you know, different angles, you know, different settings to put on your camera. We also got to talk to, like, financial people who would help us out with pitch decks. So they really do everything from.
Yancy [00:03:22]:
From a to z, like they say. I mean, it's just on the program is just unmatched. It definitely is.
Kaisha [00:03:31]:
Jillian, you mentioned the social equity part, that this is walking the walking attack. Can you talk more about that?
Jillian [00:03:37]:
I would love to. So, social equity, I feel like, is something a lot of states try to roll out, but they drop the ball with. And at least cookies is getting the funding to make to provide the access for people who, not for nothing, either were criminalized or being a woman in the industry. Since we're underrepresented, they're just providing access in ways that normally we wouldn't have access, or we would have to go through a lot of hoops and bend over backwards and trial and error. They're just giving you a complete overview of the cannabis industry, from seed to sale, in all aspects, from cultivation to the marketing, everything.
Kaisha [00:04:26]:
Yeah. Anybody else want to describe, quick as you, a little bit more detail, what's part of the program for the two months.
Jason [00:04:37]:
I jump in there, I can.
Jillian [00:04:39]:
Add on, if anything, something that, like, it's a weed college, right? But when you think of college, for me personally, it's taking out student loans. I had to work while taking out student loans, so this is taking my attention from being able to focus on my studies, being a part of cook use you. They're paying for your bills the two months that you're on site in Humboldt county, right? So that's one stress you don't have to worry about. Now, while you're there, they're giving you $150, so that way you can buy groceries, so you can eat during the week while you're living on site. In addition to that, you're working or you're in class from eight to five. Hands on instruction, in person instruction, virtual instruction. They're paying you hourly for that, so you have money in your pocket when you're coming home. I don't know any other colleges that do that, but that, like, they just set you up to be settled so that you can focus on your learning, which they take you out to legacy farm.
Jillian [00:05:39]:
And we got to meet so many dope, amazing growers learning the quality of the cannabis products, how it's grown, things that I feel like, especially coming from New York, we don't have that knowledge available to us, and we rely on the dispensaries and the bus tenders to play that knowledge forward. But being able to see, like, before the cannabis gets to the dispensary, all the work that goes into it, living all in one lock with Iraj and I can't remember names now. Cause I feel like I'm on the spot. We live and everything, but, like, just having them school us how to care for the plants, their investment and their passion for the science of the plants is like, they care about the quality that they're going to give to the consumer behind Cookie's name, which is super important. And I feel like people don't appreciate that, you know?
Jason [00:06:39]:
Yeah, cookies you is an amazing campus. The staff there are probably some of my most favorite people to work with. They've been doing a lot of this for quite a while, and it's a unique opportunity there. Obviously, you're on the river there at the one log, just south of the redwoods, enjoying the beauty of Humboldt. You get to experience some of the greenhouse work that they're doing for some of their production cannabis. You get to see some of the genetics. Some of the first rounds of potential plants are going to be hitting the market for the cookies brand. So you get a little bit of everything you got.
Jason [00:07:14]:
You guys were probably there during the outdoor season, which is super fun. They've got a little bit of a manufacturing facility as well. It's just a great opportunity for y'all. And I kind of want to segue that into, you know. You know, it's fantastic to see cookies investing in you all, to be part of the industry, help make advancements, you know, really kind of find where your niche is as far as position of seed to sale, you know, do you like marketing? Do you like cultivation? Do you like processing? Do you want to do compliance? Those people are out there, you know, and so gives you kind of the opportunity to accelerate your career, start, start building a name in the industry. So obviously, it takes a little bit of investment from you all as well. I know some of you have left your jobs, left your families for two months to go out there and live in the tiny homes. Maybe you want to fill us in on how it's changed your life.
Jason [00:08:10]:
You know, what have things been like since the end of cookies? You and what, where you. Where are you planning to stake this information? Has it helped you get get forward?
Brian [00:08:20]:
It's done a lot from networking to access. Like we've met, like they said, countless growers and movers and shakers in the industry, like things you wouldn't have had access to or seen had you not been in Humboldt. So since I returned, I've also been operating, offered an opportunity to get on a social equity license as a veteran in Minnesota, something that somebody saw that I was at cookies u and thought I'd be a good candidate. So just immense opportunities that you wouldn't have had had you not been there. I'm extremely grateful.
Kaisha [00:08:59]:
That is awesome, Brian. Amazing.
Yancy [00:09:02]:
Congratulations, bro.
Brian [00:09:04]:
Thank you.
Jason [00:09:05]:
Thank you.
Kaisha [00:09:06]:
Yeah. Jillian, you want to go next?
Jillian [00:09:10]:
I would love to. So I already kind of had a vision for what I wanted to do beforehand. Cultivation and, like, research behind the positive effects cannabis can have on our mental health as an alternative to pharmaceutical pills. Now, having come from the program, not only the network, being able to send someone my business plan to get feedback on, but also just like, personally being able to see on a super big MSO style scale to a small clarkey's cultivation scale, a type of roadmap for how I can market my products, how I can grow my products, the type of products that I can make. It just gave me a full visual of what work lies ahead of me, you know what I'm saying? And I think, like, with that access, I would have been going through a lot of trial and error otherwise, you know, and they kind of. They're pointing me in the right direction.
Kaisha [00:10:20]:
Fantastic. Yes. Sydney, how about you?
Sydney [00:10:25]:
Can you repeat the question?
Jason [00:10:29]:
Yeah, I was just asking a little bit about. Well, we know that you've been hanging out there in Humboldt, getting work done, still at cookies. But the question was, all right, what have you been doing since the end of cookies, and how has the experience possibly helped you get forward, if it has, and where you think you're going with it?
Sydney [00:10:47]:
Since I've graduated cookies u, I've been able to land a job at cookies. One log where cookies U was held as a cultivation tech. I never would have thought that I would even be doing this, because when I came here, I really didn't have any interest in cultivation. It was just marketing, content creation, which I still want to do that, but I feel like I want to combine the two, with maybe like being like, marketing for cultivation versus just like cute little rolling videos, just getting more content of the plant and how it's come about and everything. So my goal, my end goal really would be to go back to Texas and come out with something, but right now I just want to keep learning.
Kaisha [00:11:29]:
You're so great at the marketing, Sydney. Excited to see what you do next. Fantastic.
Sydney [00:11:34]:
Thank you.
Kaisha [00:11:35]:
How about you, Vicky?
Vicky [00:11:38]:
So I came to cookies you with like an idea vision, a brand. I think that being there helped me realize what made me special and what I could really offer to other people in cannabis through my brand. And I feel that it also gave me a lot of resources and connections. So I want to make certain moves. I know I can hit up this person. They can give me a resource or they can give me advice. So that makes me feel like, more confident and also just motivating me to keep going and keep pushing because cannabis gets so hard. Being in this industry is really hard.
Vicky [00:12:15]:
So it was really cool to be around people who've been doing it like forever or their whole life or their second generation. So, yeah, I just, I feel like overall it just pushed me to keep growing. My ultimate goal is to continue in cultivation, continue educating, and just grow my brand to the next level. On the east coast, I take over the east coast.
Kaisha [00:12:35]:
For real. Take it over. Exciting. Good, good. All right, Yancy, how about you?
Yancy [00:12:44]:
Since I've been back, pretty much opportunities as far as like getting on some micro business licenses and actually running, running one of the dispensaries out here in Niagara Falls. Opportunities have been given to me, but I'm still working on what I wanted to do as far as the infusions and stuff. My main goal is just pretty much get into funding. Matt's been helping me out from cookies, trying to get my pitch deck together and get the funding for what I really want to do. So, yeah, it's been great. Cookies has definitely helped out a lot. Definitely.
Kaisha [00:13:26]:
You feels looking bright. You all have some really cool things in the work. Exciting. I have a question. So most of you guys came into the program with some cultivation experience, and then we gave you all a solace. So I'm just curious, what has gaining access to that data, how has that changed your approach to growing, if at all?
Yancy [00:13:47]:
I haven't, I haven't used it yet. I haven't actually started to grow because I just been busy with everything else. I knew that coming back from cookies, I really wouldn't have time this season to grow outside. So I really didn't even try to grow indoors. But probably like in December, I will be starting up again doing my own little personal grow inside the house. And I definitely will be using the cell disk because that, that was just magnificent when we use it over there. So it definitely helps a lot.
Jillian [00:14:15]:
So I've been trying to use it. I don't know if I'm using it properly, but I will say that having the solace is kind of. I was afraid to use nutrients before with, I have like my own homegrown garden, and now with the solace, I've invested in organic nutrients and I'm experimenting with nutrients and being able to tell a little bit, even though I still got a lot to learn if the balance is right. So I'm not either giving it too many and killing it, or not giving it enough and it's not strong enough, if that makes sense. I'm still learning, though.
Kaisha [00:15:05]:
I mean, I feel like the learning process never stops, but, yeah, that balance is difficult. Yeah. Do you have any specific, if you have any questions about that, solas, I mean, you got a direct line, you let us know. Vicky, I would love to hear from you. I know a big focus. We were talking about you growing in living soil. You grow beautiful, delicious looking plants. So, yeah, I would love to hear about your experience kind of digging in more to the data as part of your cookies and instruction.
Vicky [00:15:31]:
Okay, so I have my own right here. And honestly, I'm scared of this.
Sydney [00:15:36]:
I am a. I learned.
Vicky [00:15:37]:
I learned how to cultivate through old fashioned growers. So we do like the picnic pots and all the things that people say are outdated, but I would say, like, since learning and connecting with y'all, it made me interested on how to, like, get that recipe going. But I'm still scared. So it's here. I'm ready to ask questions and figure out how to get this set up. For someone like me, who's growing in living soil with amendments rather than, like, straight underneath, like. Yeah.
Kaisha [00:16:08]:
I mean, we can tackle those questions anytime. Throwing that out there. We'll come back to you. Brian, I know you are a big plant person. You already were growing well before this. So how about you? Data driven cultivation. How's it working for you?
Brian [00:16:23]:
I have not dived into it just yet. I've bought everything to set up, drip irrigation to try it. Um, and I'm also in plastic pots. But my next run, I'm going to go to the fabric pots, which I think will be easier to use with the solace. And I'm going to use it like it's supposed to be used at that time, but haven't been able to get into it yet.
Kaisha [00:16:44]:
All good. Your life has been pretty busy, but cool. Excited to hear how that goes. So, Sydney, you were the one who was least experienced with cultivation, and now you are all up in cultivation right now. So let's talk about that.
Sydney [00:16:57]:
I haven't used my solace. Cause the plan I have is I just literally started getting that going. But I do know in the greenhouse, we use the climate one. And I think it's the substrate sensor. Oh, the terrace one.
Kaisha [00:17:10]:
Substrate sensor.
Sydney [00:17:12]:
I think so. And I am interested to know, like, what those do. I think the climate one is telling us about the VPD. So I have some questions for you all as far as that, because I'm just trying to understand what those even do. But the solus is just. I'm here with all these plants. I haven't brought out mines for anything personal yet because we have them up in there. But I also have questions for the other two machines in there.
Sydney [00:17:37]:
Devices in there.
Kaisha [00:17:38]:
I love it. Well, look, let's get into some questions that you have about navigating all this. You got Jason. He is the expert. So, Sydney, you want to kick off some q and A?
Sydney [00:17:48]:
Well, yeah, I mean, really, I just want to know what those devices are doing. I know that AROYA is such an aid to cookies, greenhouse. And I, you know, the R and D containers and stuff. So I'm just trying to, I guess, understand more, like what the climate one does for the greenhouse. Like, what is it to it?
Jason [00:18:06]:
Absolutely. Let's dive in. And obviously, they're their cookies. They've got a full arroyo suite. So that's one of the reasons you probably haven't dove into your solace yet. Just got a little one more powerful there on site. So climate one, it is climate station, climate sensor. It's looking at environmental variables either in a greenhouse, in a grow container, in a nursery, even outdoor.
Jason [00:18:33]:
We have some. Some climate stations set up. That device is reporting temperature, humidity, and vapor pressure deficit and CO2. So vapor pressure deficit, VPD, as you're asking. It's one of the variables that we use, or measurement, excuse me, that we use for helping determine is the environment appropriate for plant growth? And mostly what we're doing with that is trying to adjust the VPD to increase the amount of stomatal conductance. So on the surface of the plant leaves, it's covered in what's called stomates. And the stomates are the pores on the leaf surface that allow the plant to exchange gases. And so basically what's happening is the plant is absorbing, it's pulling in, it's transferring carbon from the air around it, and using that in the photosynthetic process to build sugars and carbohydrates and other plant foods, the plant can grow.
Jason [00:19:30]:
What we do with VPD is make sure that the humidity and temperature are balanced with each other so that the plant is in an ideal situation. So ideal meaning let's have these stomates as open as possible, usually in later in flower. We're shooting for VPD of around 1.2. Earlier in VaG, we'll be trying to shoot for about 0.8. And really what's going on is, as we get to those appropriate VPD levels, the stomates are going to be open as much as possible. And that's really important when we think about how quickly we can get these plants to grow. The more open the stomates are, the more carbon that the plant can absorb quicker. And so if we get too hot and too dry, those stomates start to close up as a drought response for the plant.
Jason [00:20:18]:
Really what's going on there is the plant is closing the stomates to protect itself from wilting. That is, the environment's trying to pull water out of the plant faster than the plant can pull water out of the soil or substrate, whatever conditions it's growing in. And on the other side of that scale, if our VPD is low, means it's either too cold or too humid, both. And there's just simply not enough paper pressure to cause those stomates to open. That's VPD. And then I'll keep going. The teros ones, what you're calling the substrate sensors. Substrate sensors, they're looking at water content, electrical connectivity, which is going to be your amount of nutrients, total amount of nutrients, and temperature of the substrate.
Jason [00:21:07]:
So those are super critical factor. Really nice thing about the Fuloroya system is you're getting real time data. So data is reported every three minutes. It's logged in the interface that the, obviously the cookies you staff there has access to. So they can go back to last year's run in the greenhouse in the summer at the same time and try to evaluate are we seeing the same environmental conditions where we run in the same strains? What was our outputs really gives them a place to collaborate and annotate on their data. I like to think about it as like an advanced centralized grow journal. What we all used to do is just write this stuff down in the grow journal, try to remember where we left that grow journal, ask our buddy where we left that or where they left the grow journal. Try not to spill it or drop it in the batch tank, all those things, right? Left it at work, whatever.
Jason [00:22:00]:
And now that stuff's all online, everyone can access it. They can start talking about some of their observations. They can note that right there in the data. They can take pictures, note it in the data. They can assign tasks for their buddy to go de leafing because they've been doing it for the last four days and they need a break. Any of that types of collaboration and workflow, and then that all gets packaged up into what's called a harvest group. The harvest group is the grow cycle from as early as you can attribute it to as late as you can attribute it. Ideally, we're looking at veg stage, flower stage, and the dry stage, and we can talk about, all right, what was the output of that product? You know, how much wet weight did we get? Did we get the anticipated dry weight out of it? Did we over dry that product by looking at the annotations in the dry room? Do we need to increase the time that it spends in the dry room so we have a little bit better cure from that product? And that starts to allow you to establish performance standards, get some baselines as far as cultivation goes.
Jason [00:23:05]:
And so, yeah, by using substrate sensors, environmental sensors, you can really start to twist the knobs on the plant at the different phases of its growth. We can do different irrigation strategies, we can manipulate the EC for expected or anticipated to try and really optimize the morphology of that plant, or the chemology of running, you know, nighttime differentials to get a better purpling color, maybe increase some of the terpene profiles in there? And I. That's kind of the major factor that clients find advantages of using real time data and starting to attribute it, not only use it as an output from what the sensors are showing them, but having them input human based impacts on the plant so that there's a holistic scope of how that cultivation cycle was run.
Sydney [00:23:59]:
Thank you. Now I know.
Kaisha [00:24:03]:
Yeah, Vicky, what questions do you have?
Vicky [00:24:07]:
Okay, so my questions are very, they're very beginner, but feel free to really walk me through. So can one sensor, if I have multiple plants, but they're different plants, can one sensor, like, how could this leave the sensor in that one pot? Or would I take it out, put in another pot, and like, will the app track that? Or how do I keep record of every different plan they're not the same strain.
Jason [00:24:34]:
Yeah. So for the soles that, that you're working with, there it is in situ measurement. So you can go in there, stick the sensor into the substrate. You'll get a reading in the app. Right. For the solus, it's not, not obviously, the full subscription suite of AROYA. So it doesn't have necessarily all the workflow, the productivity features of the full blown arroyo system. So one of the best things you can do is go in there in the morning, before you irrigate, start to get some water content and EC readings from the plants.
Jason [00:25:07]:
So go in there, get your first strain, plant or plant or strain, write down those measurements, put them in a g sheet, however you really want to keep track of them. Pull the sensor out, go over to the next plant and do the same thing. And I usually like, ideally, if I have time to get kind of like three readings, um, you can get by with two readings a day from those plants with the, the solas. But if we get a reading, uh, before we irrigate, and then we can get a reading after we've seen our runoff, that'll give us a really good idea of how much dry back that we're getting and the, um, dynamics of EC. So what's our highest DC levels? What's our lowest DC levels? Typically, your highest DC level is going to come before you irrigate. It's also going to be your lowest water content. And we, after we irrigate, we'll probably see some of our lowest DC's and our highest water contents.
Vicky [00:26:02]:
But that's another question. So I explained this. So what about feeding it every day? Like, so I'm a living soil grower. I don't feed the plants every day. So how would that work? Would that be? Would it, would I use the sensor on the day that I do feed?
Jason [00:26:21]:
Uh, I would still use it, you know, as often as you have time. So if you have time that day to take those readings, do. So. Um, you know, organics get to be a little bit tricky as far as nutrient management, just because, you know, if I'm feeding every day, I have a pretty good idea that my EC is going to be, you know, somewhat close to, to my feed levels, depending on, on how hard I'm crop steering it. Um, for organics, obviously what's going on there, or maybe not so obviously, but you are amending some type of organic material, right? Whether it be bone meal or compost or manure, bat guano, worm castings. And those organic materials are interacting with bacteria and microbes in the soil, those microbes and bacteria are breaking down the chemical components of that organic material and turning it into plant available nutrients. And so this all happens on a time delay response.
Kaisha [00:27:20]:
All right.
Jason [00:27:21]:
When working with synthetic nutrients, that plant has immediate availability to it when it's added to the substrate, whereas depending on what type of organic was added in there and how healthy the soil is, that nutrients only going to be available to the plant after a certain period of time. And that's different for the different types of components that you're adding in there.
Vicky [00:27:44]:
Thank you. Thank you.
Kaisha [00:27:49]:
Great question. Thank you for that. Anybody else got any questions about data driven cultivation solis?
Jillian [00:27:55]:
I do like adding on to, I guess, Vicky's question because I'm kind of experimenting with organic soil. So if I'm using the solace to do my readings, what I just want to correct my understanding. What he's saying is that basically the readings are going to be delayed with the solace. If it's like living organics or organic.
Jason [00:28:23]:
Nutrients and stuff, the readings themselves are not delayed. I mean, that's going to be an instantaneous reading. But what's happening is. So I'll just use a comparison here. Obviously, if I feed at three EC with a synthetic nutrient, I know that I've added three Ec of available nutrients to that substrate. Now, if I've added five pounds of bat guano and two pounds of worm castings and some, some calcium sulfate, that's not going to be available to the plant immediately. Right. And so that regardless of whether you're feeding that day or not, you may see that EC climb or decrease.
Jason [00:29:03]:
And is that. Did I get it? Is that right?
Jillian [00:29:11]:
Yeah, you got it. But now I have a whole bunch of nutrient questions and I probably got to go back to the nutrient guys for that, but you got it. Thank you.
Kaisha [00:29:23]:
So much. Trial and error, huh? Part of the experience. Brian, what are you growing this year?
Brian [00:29:31]:
Right now I'm growing green crack and ZZ four, which is a cookie strain. Like I'm all for data driven cultivation. Like I wasn't aware of crop steering, but I'm just not able. We're not ready to get there yet, but I'm very excited to work and use my solus. That was one of the most exciting things to do or to learn about crop steering as a whole. So. Just waiting on my time.
Kaisha [00:29:55]:
Amazing.
Jason [00:29:57]:
So you did end up getting a license in South Carolina area?
Brian [00:30:01]:
No, no, no. I'm in Virginia trying to get the license here, but they pushed back. Well, the governor vetoed the bill. So we're waiting until next year to see, but I've been offered a chance to get on a social equity license in the state of Minnesota.
Jason [00:30:16]:
Cool, man. That's awesome. Well, it sounds like wherever you're going to get started it, you'll be. You'll be one of the first to get a pioneer the industry in that state.
Brian [00:30:26]:
Trying to. Trying to.
Kaisha [00:30:28]:
For sure. That means you have to relocate again, though, right?
Brian [00:30:32]:
No, not for the one in Minnesota. I'd be like a partner, and I'd be able to be the name on the license and work an equity deal that way. So hopefully now in Virginia, I would be here.
Kaisha [00:30:43]:
Yeah, yeah. Amazing. And, yeah, being a partner and having that ability to do data driven cultivation, that's a game changer for the business, you know, planning. Yeah.
Brian [00:30:54]:
And the amount of people who haven't heard about crop steering is baffling that are in the industry, so.
Kaisha [00:31:01]:
Yeah, that's interesting. I think you mentioned when you and I talk, people are aware of it from, like, agronomic other crops, but no crop steering with cannabis is. You hadn't heard about that on the east coast?
Brian [00:31:15]:
No, not even in, like, gardener circles. They're not like, nobody's really. Like, it's a new concept as far as for cannabis, like, so pretty excited about learning that and bringing it here, too.
Kaisha [00:31:27]:
Amazing. Okay. Good to know. Might have to get our team out there.
Jason [00:31:31]:
It's. It's one of the really exciting things about when we see, you know, estate legalize is it starts opening up communication channels, and then when things start to get at commercial scale, a lot of people have to adjust the way that they've been growing. You know, for. For me at home, I love growing organic. It's. It's fun. I get it. You know, take advantage of outdoor, get to take advantage of, you know, interacting with the environment and the earth.
Jason [00:32:01]:
And sometimes once it gets at scale, in order to be profitable, we end up seeing people growing in Rockwool and, you know, all indoors, no windows anymore and. And that type of stuff. And so it's really cool to kind of allow people to work out different channels on a specific timeframe. When you kind of look up in Canada, some of the larger companies have just made the scale of production at such a large level that it's been harder to build niche product lines and niche brands up there. Whereas, obviously, here in the states, as we get a few states on a year at a time, it really allows people to be competitive at a craft level, and those that choose to can start to operate as msos, but they're still limited based on the restrictions to transfer product.
Kaisha [00:32:59]:
Yeah. And every new market that comes online, they, with, I think, one or two exceptions, I think Connecticut was different. Um, they wind up with too much cannabis, not enough retail outlets. So there's a lot of balancing that has to happen in this brand new industry. Vicky, I know you and I were talking a little bit about your passion about living soil and the realities of commercial cultivation. Right. The focus is on that profitability, but you feel like there could be an opportunity for you to figure out a way to, like, kind of leverage that the living soil in this, in these commercial environments. That's one of the things you were thinking about.
Jason [00:33:35]:
Yeah.
Vicky [00:33:36]:
I think I understand commercial cannabis and just change, like, how living soil doesn't really fit the model of that. But I feel like through this program really made me feel like that's what makes me special. I feel like there's a lot of cultivators, both legacy or licensed, that already do, like, one style of growing. They grow canvas at a large volume that I don't feel like I want to compete with. So I feel like, I do feel like I can leverage that and just pick up the skills from crop steering, or I feel like those things are still useful, but I feel like definitely sticking true to the living soil. But I do feel like there's opportunity to use other methods to make money on the commercial side as well. I won't share it, though, because that's my little secret.
Kaisha [00:34:23]:
Protect that IP.
Jason [00:34:24]:
Vicky, if you get a chance to get up to Maine, they've got a great, uh, craft market up there. Uh, they, they've had. Most of their grows are a little bit smaller up in Maine, and a lot of people have been able to, um, really exploit a higher value product, um, and, and take advantage of building a good brand name around some living soil. So, might be a fun opportunity for you. If you get the chance, come and check it out.
Vicky [00:34:53]:
I've never been in Maine, so, yeah.
Kaisha [00:34:55]:
I'm gonna check it out. The weed is supposed to be fire in Maine. So I have a question. So, right now, the application period for cookies, university 2025, is officially open through August 18. And I just wanted to ask you. I'll start with you, Brian. What would you say to someone not sure if they want to apply? Thinking about it.
Brian [00:35:17]:
Do. It's eye opening. As much as I've loved cannabis, I have an MS in medical cannabis science and therapeutics. Didn't get anywhere near the education in my master's program that I got at cookies.
Jason [00:35:33]:
You.
Brian [00:35:34]:
So if you haven't, well, apply. Just apply and be your genuine self. Do it.
Kaisha [00:35:45]:
Yeah. Anybody else? How about you, Jillian?
Jillian [00:35:49]:
Same. Definitely tell them to apply when you're applying. On the application. As a teacher, I would give you the advice. The person that's reading it has no clue who you are, so you have to paint a picture for them. Whatever your vision is, make sure you elaborate and you're able to describe it in a way that the person can visualize whatever it is that you're trying to bring to life.
Kaisha [00:36:13]:
That's really good advice. How about you, Sydney? Because I know you applied before this year and you actually ended up getting in because somebody else couldn't make it. What advice would you give?
Sydney [00:36:25]:
I would just say, I mean, if you're anybody has a passion for cannabis, to just do it, because, I mean, like you said, I did apply before, didn't get in and was able to get in again. And had I just stopped trying to get in, I would have never been here. And I've been able to get a job through cookies and everything. So, yeah, if you have a passion for cannabis, just don't give up. And I keep going, you know, just keep trying. Even if you don't get in this first year.
Kaisha [00:36:52]:
I love that. Yes. How about you, Vicky?
Vicky [00:36:55]:
I would emphasize, what are you been saying? Like, be yourself. Really show off. Like, I mean, I really show off, but, like, tell, like, talk about yourself. Don't be afraid to tell all your experiences, whether, you know, it's in the traditional market, whether it's not, like, just be real. Like, just, you know, be real. Like, be real with yourself. Be real with who you are and share that with your anything, your application.
Kaisha [00:37:20]:
I would say awesome. Yes. Yancy, want to round out the advice for somebody who's just thinking about applying for cookie to you?
Yancy [00:37:29]:
Yeah. So no matter if you're a beginner or you're a pro at it, like, you could always learn something new. The program is, is just developed in a way where if you've never touched a plant, you won't be left behind. I mean, you're pretty much going to be at the same level as everyone else. Definitely. It might be a little nerve wracking when you're doing it, but I mean, just get it done, you know, make sure that you look it over. Make sure you look over your application before you send it in. Read it over a couple times, maybe even send it to a friend.
Yancy [00:38:01]:
Ask, you know, ask them what they think. But oversharing is probably better than under sharing and just pretty much, you know, focus on, you know, just like, being your truthful self and just showing your passion. Once you show your passion, I'm sure they're going to pick it up, you know, so. Yeah, definitely, if you're thinking about it, just definitely do it like they said. Definitely.
Kaisha [00:38:21]:
I love that. Beautiful. We're going to. We've got the link to the application. We're going to drop that in the chat. Hey, Jason, what do you think about covering one or two questions from our viewers?
Jason [00:38:35]:
I got. I got one. One more question for the crew here.
Kaisha [00:38:38]:
Do it.
Jason [00:38:39]:
Yeah. So obviously I'm going to take this off Brian's where he said he learned more at cookies. You there in two months. You know, one of the great things about the program they got hands on. We do some classroom time. There's a little bit of probably just manual labor work. The taking advantage of y'all being there as staff, which is great because you learn through all of it. Right.
Jason [00:39:03]:
And I know you guys are doing leaf into cloning. Of all of the activities that you did in the two months, what, what was your favorite one and which one did you learn from most? They can be the same thing.
Brian [00:39:19]:
My favorite one was harvesting, like, just cutting the plants down, hanging them, drying them. We were all together listening to music, having a good time. So I enjoyed that. I probably learned the most just kicking it with Eraj, like, after work was over, he, like, would explain certain things or go more into depth in certain things about cultivation. He took time to make sure we understood things that we wanted to know. So that was probably when I learned the most.
Kaisha [00:39:48]:
Shout out to Eraj at one log. Amazing. Amazing person. Who'd like to go next?
Yancy [00:40:01]:
Vicky, can you repeat the question again?
Jason [00:40:03]:
Oh, what was your favorite lesson? Which lessons you learned the most? Sometimes they're the same one.
Yancy [00:40:11]:
Pretty much like the bonding aspect, just getting to know everybody else that was in the program with me, the other four cohorts. I think that's like the best out of everything that you learn from there is just learning, you know, what other people like, what they're into, you know, found out about Larry June. Would have never known about Larry June if it wasn't for going over there, you know, so definitely listen to him a lot now. So, yeah, I think the best part was just the bonding experience.
Kaisha [00:40:42]:
Y'all got a group chat maintaining that.
Yancy [00:40:46]:
Yeah, we do.
Vicky [00:40:50]:
My favorite part was hanging out with everybody, making moves, being humble. Outside of that was working in the greenhouse. It was also the hardest thing to do. It was really hot in there, but it was the best thing to do. I feel like I learned how to grow at a scale by working grow at scale by working in the greenhouse.
Jillian [00:41:16]:
I feel like my favorite lesson. I can't say a favorite. Just all the classroom and then the supplemental hands on. I need the visual. I need to be able to see things. Before I came to cook, use you, I had read the grow bible, and I was trying to put into practice the things I had read. But being able to work hands on with the plant kind of help take away what I need to do in my own personal garden. And then also, if I want to scale, I can do that also.
Jillian [00:41:50]:
So definitely the hands on experience for me.
Sydney [00:41:59]:
This humble wife.
Jason [00:42:04]:
She said the Humboldt Wi Fi is a little tough.
Kaisha [00:42:07]:
Oh, Sydney. Yeah. You went in and out a little bit humbled. Life's a little tough. Yeah.
Jason [00:42:11]:
The wi Fi, I think, is what she said.
Kaisha [00:42:13]:
The wifi. Yeah. Yeah, that came right on time, huh?
Sydney [00:42:18]:
Yeah, it's going in and out, in and out. Can y'all hear me now?
Kaisha [00:42:23]:
Yeah, we can hear you.
Sydney [00:42:26]:
Well, my favorite part definitely has been just bonding with everybody and seeing a beautiful place. But my favorite class was probably the one with JB. He's a cookies photographer. That's just something I'm really interested in. And then with me not knowing anything in cultivation, sometimes I'll be in class and kind of like, lost. So I would say my other favorite times would be, like Ryan said, just hanging out with eraj and learning more because I felt kind of more comfortable to ask those quote unquote dumb questions, I felt. But, yeah, that's been my favorite time.
Kaisha [00:43:01]:
And you're still doing it, too. And, yeah, no dumb questions. I mean, this is hard. This is a definitely tough job. For real? Yeah. So many aspects of cannabis are difficult, actually. We really are choosing quite the journey. But I don't know about any of you all.
Kaisha [00:43:21]:
I don't want to be anywhere else. I love this world.
Sydney [00:43:24]:
Yeah.
Kaisha [00:43:24]:
Yeah. All right, I'm going to dig into this question because it's so good. Jason. It's long, but I love it because it presents a lot of data, and it'd be cool to just kind of talk through it with these students. Do the students have any insights? How's that feel? Sound? Good?
Jason [00:43:44]:
Let's do it.
Kaisha [00:43:45]:
All right.
Jillian [00:43:45]:
Let's do it.
Kaisha [00:43:45]:
Okay. I wrote in last week about keeping ph in optimal range during stretch. I have bumped my input ec up to 3.3 from a 3.0 since. And decreased drybacks to 40% to 45% instead of 35% 70% water content pure cocoa one gallon fabric pots 1050 ppfd 1350 ppm do two temps range from 79 to 83 degrees fahrenheit 65% to 73% humidity same for nighttime average vpd 0.9 to 1.1 feeding at a 5.9 ph day 13 in flower my runoff ph is coming out at a 5.65 to 5.85 on average, which is better. But I am now starting to see what looks like a nitrogen toxicity forming across most of the plants. Inverted cupping of the leaves towards the base of the stem and what looks like a dark green blue hue creeping in from the edges of the larger fan leaves throughout the plants, not just at the top layer. Some plants very bottom leaves show necrosis at the tips and slightly drooping. No tip burn on top.
Kaisha [00:44:55]:
This is true even for the plants getting less dry back and slightly more dry back. The EC in the root zones has now been stacked to 5.5 to 6.3 ec. When I feed until runoff, the EC will drop from about six to five or 4.5 and rise back up to six or above the following day. What could be causing what looks like this toxicity forming? If ph is still in range, EC swingsh simply too strong of a feed for these cultivars, too much EC stacked for these cultivars not enough EC stacked being pushed too hard, too quick. Three of the plants also begin began to hurm. I've had this happen multiple times in the past and cannot pinpoint the issue. Growth week one of flower was best I've seen. They were flowered in place coming in at 3.8 EC.
Kaisha [00:45:45]:
Thanks for any advice on stunt feeding. Athena nutrients at recommended ratio about 60 40 bloom decorous multiple probes for testing ph in EC which are freshly calibrated and brand new. What's coming out at the drippers is what is in the batch tanks. Some middle new growth starting to cut downward on the leaf edges and show toxic green. Look, one plant is actually clawing GMO cross genetics from skunk house, tickle burger and papaya mousse. All right, that was a lot. What do you think, Jason? What comes up for you?
Jason [00:46:18]:
I think I want to try some papaya moose.
Kaisha [00:46:20]:
Yeah, so do I.
Jason [00:46:22]:
Love that names. God, they they covered most all the aspects. I'm not sure if they hit CO2 in there, but making sure CO2 levels are good.
Kaisha [00:46:33]:
They did say CO2 but they didn't say anything specific about the levels and.
Jason [00:46:37]:
Everything sounded like it's in check. You know, your ph is just where you want it to be. You know, one of the things I do recommend for people, especially if they're trying to new media or they have any, any issues where they can't track it down based on environmental subs and substrate parameters and all that stuff is do, do a little check on what that cocoa is like. So from, you know, from the factory every once in a while. And some brands are better at staying consistent than others, but just making sure that, you know, the manufacturer did a good job Washington that, that substrate, and I don't know if I brought it up when I was trying to answer the ph question as well, but, you know, occasionally they, they get a batch that wasn't processed great. And sometimes that cocoa can already be latent with some sodiums. You know, a lot of times this cocoa is coming from, from coastal regions and the sea spray, it's got sodium in it. A lot of times that doesn't get necessarily washed out great.
Jason [00:47:48]:
The manufacturer doesn't add enough calcium to buffer that cocoa as well. So take a, take an extra cocoa bag. This is the easy recommendation that I'm trying to give you here. Take an extra cocoa bag and run, run it to field capacity with a runoff tray underneath it and take a look at ECMPH levels of that runoff. You know, usually with cocoa, I'm pretty happy if I see it. You know, under one, most of the cocoa I've tested ends up being like 0.6 to 1.2 ec. And usually if we see that too, too high, it just means that we're gonna have to do a more substantial pre planting wash on our substrate. Right.
Jason [00:48:34]:
Make sure that we've pushed out any of the residual in that cocoa and make sure that we're starting with some fresh nutrients. You know, the fact that you're seeing it now, maybe it's happening because you get a little bit higher ph or, excuse me, a little bit higher ec. But for most the cultivars I've encountered, those are really nice ranges. What I would do is get a leaf tissue analysis, get those out in the mail. There's lots of companies around that have, you know, 48 hours turnaround on some of that lab testing. So, you know, if you got one nearby, go, go drop it off, and, you know, within a very short period of time, you'll get an answer, is this nutrient related or not? Right. And so that, I mean, that's kind of a sure shot. If you're seeing a lab result that comes back and it does have nitrogen toxicity.
Jason [00:49:26]:
You have your answer. Quote, your question answered right there. That's, you know, it's kind of a no brainer. Most of those lab tests are pretty solid. They're going to give you an idea of what you actually have to do to. In order to rectify some of those issues. Gives you more detail than, you know, trying to make assumptions on. All right, maybe is it this? Maybe it is this.
Jason [00:49:46]:
Right before we. Now, before we try to get to any corrective action, we have to positively identify what the issue is because everything else, from my standpoint, sounds like it's pretty well in check.
Kaisha [00:50:02]:
Well, you gave this person some great things to think about. Thank you for that overview, Jason. Um, any. Y'all have any questions about that? There was a lot going on in that particular question. We don't usually have that much detail. Y'all have any questions about it?
Yancy [00:50:18]:
No, there was a lot.
Kaisha [00:50:19]:
It was a lot.
Jillian [00:50:22]:
Of numbers.
Yancy [00:50:24]:
Whoever sent in that question definitely knows his stuff because. Or her stuff because. Yeah, that's a lot.
Brian [00:50:31]:
That's what I was thinking. Like, it sounds like it should work.
Sydney [00:50:35]:
Yeah, literally. Like, y'all gonna figure it out. They go, they're on the right path.
Kaisha [00:50:42]:
Jason really is like a doctor. Like, I. It's kind of amazing.
Jason [00:50:45]:
They obviously got tired of me telling, saying up here, like, oh, I don't have enough information to answer that question. Well, and they're like, it's not gonna have that excuse this time.
Kaisha [00:50:54]:
Exactly. They're like, I don't want to hear that.
Jason [00:50:56]:
So, yeah, get the lab test out. Since we've heard back from him, I think this was a question we had a few weeks ago on the show. Hopefully we hear back from him or her again and kind of have a wrap up to the situation.
Kaisha [00:51:12]:
Yeah, that's right. To the Grammy that submitted that question. Keep us posted. Let us know what's going on. All right. I have another one. This is a nice short one. And I was just probably something that all of you all can relate to in this particular one.
Kaisha [00:51:24]:
So Jawai grown three wrote recently they wanted to get some watering practices for first watering after transplanting into two gallon Rio cocoa. What would you advise, Jason?
Jason [00:51:38]:
Yeah, so check out our episode that talks about the rotting in irrigation strategies that we like to train and deploy. I'll just kind of go over them quick right now when we have, uh, have made sure that we've got good supply of nutrients and we're at field capacity. So our initial wet up of that substrate, um, you know, in a two gallon cocoa will usually be at either 45% if we're the, the bigger chipped cocoa, or up in that 60, 65% if we're the, what I call coffee ground cocoa. Um, the, the smaller pith cocoa. And so what I like to do is I like to give really small irrigations, usually about two or three times a day, spaced out pretty wide right in the middle of the day. And these are going to be less than 1%. What our goal here is, is just to make sure that we are getting some fresh nutrients, fresh oxygen, and encouraging growth response while that root zone is really small. Right.
Jason [00:52:40]:
So if we're going from a clone plug to a two gallon, that's a pretty substantial change in root zone size. When we were in that plug, those plants for that plant has pressure irrigations coming in pretty common for those roots. Now, when we go into that two gallon, obviously, if we irrigate too much, we're going to start seeing some root stagnations. But I do like to do a couple of very small, like I said, less than 1% irrigations on a daily basis. The goal there is, let's get those roots to follow that irrigation. We're obviously supplying the plant with some, some fresh vitals that it needs to have explosive growth, and it's going to follow that those small irrigations, as the larger substate dries back. The really important thing here is to make sure that we are irrigating substantially less than how much water is being lost in that substrate to evaporation and transpiration. Right.
Jason [00:53:35]:
So on, on day one of this rooting process, let's say our two gallons at 45% water content, well, if we only did two half percent shots and we lost 3% to evaporation and transpiration. Well, that first day we had, the end of the first day will be at 43%. Right. Loss of 3% and added 1% the next day, usually, hopefully, we'll start to see an increase in water content loss in that substrate, because those risks are starting to tap that, that larger volume. And on a daily basis, we should see more and more total water loss from that substrate. And I like to dry it down a ways. Right. And so, usually, rooting in process is going to take anywhere from three to seven days for, for most plants, and we'll keep an eye on that, that total water content.
Jason [00:54:29]:
And so, let's say if our cocoa started at 45%, and it's something that you do want to kind of build an SoP for what exact water content you want to get down to before you start your regular vegetative irrigations, but for something that starting at, like, 45%, I probably wouldn't start my, my typical regular irrigations until I'm around that 25 or 30% water content in that two gallon. Right. And so, you know, if we stretch this out on a timeline, let's say we had a loss overall loss of 2% the first day. Say the next day we had an overall loss of 5%. Now we're down 7%. We're at 38% water content. Next day, maybe we lose 8% water content. All right, day four, maybe we'll just.
Jason [00:55:17]:
Maybe we'll start that vegetative irrigation. But it's one of the things that's just so valuable about having real time water content information is rather than trying to make a judgment decision based on water weight or just a standard sop, now you have real feedback on how quickly this plants growing. You know, everyone strives to have awesome uniformity and be extremely consistent round around. But, you know, it. It's always going to have some changes. If we're working with a new strain, maybe this one needs a little bit more time to get rid of it and perfectly successful. You know, if you're working with a supplier, maybe you didn't have a great clone lot one time. Well, it gives you a little bit of help to really improve your growth early on and set yourself up for a successful flower round.
Kaisha [00:56:15]:
Dang. Thank you. Jason just knows this stuff. All right, Cookies U students, any. Any other questions or any clarification you need on that?
Yancy [00:56:24]:
No, he said everything I was going to say.
Kaisha [00:56:26]:
Yeah.
Sydney [00:56:26]:
Jason need to be a manager somewhere at a greenhouse house.
Yancy [00:56:30]:
Yeah, definitely.
Jason [00:56:33]:
I can make a bigger impact in the industry by sharing the knowledge and teaching y'all. And rather than keep it right in one company, helping c suite make all the money.
Kaisha [00:56:44]:
That's real, though. No? The education is so important. It's such a good overview, Jason. Thank you for that. All right, Cookies U fam. We've got just a few minutes here left in the show for people who want to follow your journey. Where can they find you? Brian, you want to get us started?
Jason [00:57:00]:
Yeah.
Brian [00:57:01]:
I am underscore bmitch on Instagram and Brian Mitchell on LinkedIn.
Jillian [00:57:09]:
Miss Jilly Jills on Instagram. Ms. Jillyjillz and Jillian Alvarez on LinkedIn.
Sydney [00:57:20]:
I'm sid the buttinder on really anything. And on LinkedIn. I'm Sydney Rogers.
Vicky [00:57:28]:
You can find me at butterfly effect. B u d d a f l y e f e c t s on everywhere.
Yancy [00:57:40]:
On Instagram and social club, morning clouds cafe and on LinkedIn. Yancy Matos. Same thing with Facebook as well. Yancy Matos.
Kaisha [00:57:53]:
Wonderful. And to all of you, congratulations for completing this amazing program. Just want to share with you all, we created a digital magazine commemorating our experience with you, but really just showcasing just some of the shots that Christian took while he was there. I'm going to email this link to you and then we're going to get some printed copies. But this is just like a special collector's edition that we just wanted to put together to celebrate all of you. So really proud of that. Really proud of this wonderful collaboration and partnership and.
Yancy [00:58:29]:
Yeah, thank you very much.
Kaisha [00:58:32]:
Yeah.
Sydney [00:58:32]:
This looks so cool.
Kaisha [00:58:33]:
It's really cool. Yeah, I can't wait to see it printed. So I'm going to get that link over to you all so you can have that. And then I think we're also dropping the link to cookies U 2025 applications. Before we go, anything else you want to say last? Any final words? Brian, before we wrap up, I'll stop presenting.
Brian [00:58:52]:
I heard you say that Sydney applied multiple times. I also applied like three times. So if you don't get in, try again. And try again.
Sydney [00:59:00]:
Yep. And don't be discouraged if you don't have no experience, because I ain't have none. And look where I am. I'm still here. Out here working.
Yancy [00:59:12]:
Yeah. I just want to give a shout out to everybody at one log. You know, Amanda, Jonah, you got Jared, you got Delbert, you got red down there. You got everybody that's at one log. Shout out to all y'all. Y'all definitely made the experience much better than what it would have been if you guys weren't there. Definitely.
Jillian [00:59:36]:
I'd say apply, paint the vision. If you have a vision in the industry, no matter how small that vision, that glimmer is, this is the, this is the program for you. I want to see more people that look like us in programs like this. Not for nothing.
Kaisha [00:59:53]:
Period.
Vicky [00:59:56]:
I'll say take your time. Really show off. And good luck and all my love to everybody. Everyone here. And at cookies, one love.
Sydney [01:00:08]:
Shout out to Arroya, too.
Yancy [01:00:13]:
Yeah, definitely.
Kaisha [01:00:15]:
Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you all just for being on here. This is so wonderful. Loved hanging out with y'all up in Humboldt, but also just really excited to see what you do. So good luck out there. I know we will stay in touch and I look forward to seeing you all at Emma cup next weekend. All right.
Kaisha [01:00:30]:
With that, one more thing. I just want to announce the MJ Awards is still accepting nominations until August 18, and if you love a royal office hours, please nominate us for content creator of the year year. We have the link to the nomination form on our instagram, but with that, thank you all for coming on the pod. Congratulations again to Cookies University class of 2024. Thank you, Jason and producer Chris for another great session. And thank you all for joining us for this week's AROYA office hours. To learn more about AROYA, book a demo at arroyo IO and our team will show you the ins and outs of the ultimate cannabis cultivation platform. If you have any crops doing or cultivation questions you want us to cover, drop them anytime in the Aurora app.
Kaisha [01:01:09]:
Email us at sales at arroyo IO. Send us a DM. We're on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn and we want to hear from you. And if you're a fan of the pod, please leave us a review on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, or wherever you listen to your podcast. We appreciate your feedback and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube so you never miss an episode. Thanks, y'all. See you at epic.