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You know, a lot of people clearly see an opportunity in there, but not everyone's going to be able to be the one to seize it. Whether Ballet's intro could be the ones to seize it is a different matter. The future of Evolk is becoming a little more clear as the operator confirmed newspaper reports that Bally's Intralot is circling, ready to make an offer to take over the group. Bally's Intralot also confirmed those rumours, telling investors that it sees clear synergies with Evolk, adding to its UK online presence. So what is Bally's Intralot's thinking, and what does the future hold for Evolk and its brands? Welcome back to iGaming Daily, supported by Optimove, the creator of positionalist marketing and the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner, and today I'm joined by SBC News editor Ted Orme-Clay and iGaming expert editor Joe Streeter. Ted, how's things? Yeah, pretty good. Thank you, Charlie. Had a good weekend. And yeah, pretty big story for us to get stuck back into on a Monday morning. Yeah, it's always nice when we have big juicy stories to get into, isn't it, Joe? And today is certainly one of those days, something that we've sort of been building up to for a little while now. Yeah, it's occupied a lot of water cooler talk in the office. So this potential deal and the future of Evoque. So yeah, really interesting one. And the sun is shining in Salford and yeah, a big story to get into. Yeah, exciting times. Well, let's just go over things, because this all stemmed from newspaper rumours and reports last week, which both operators have now confirmed. So what's on the cards? What were the rumours, and what does any potential deal look like? Ted, do want to give us the overview of this? So I think the main newspaper rumour that people have seen is the reports, I say rumour, obviously it's no longer a rumour, is it? It's confirmed. But the reports in the Times over the weekend that Bally's intro has been involved in talks with Evoque for a full buyout of the business. This has actually been the subject of some speculation earlier than this, so going back a month or so, I think. There's been a lot of talk and a lot of focus on Evoque. since they announced a strategic, I always draw with that word on this podcast, a strategic review in December last year, almost immediately after the announcement of the UK budget in November and the gaming taxes that be coming into effect from that, that have now come into effect as of 1st April 2026. So know, the fact that this company announced this review of its assets that they said at the time could include either a complete sale or a sale of certain assets. Obviously got a lot of people's attention. The company owns William Hill. It owns the 888 group of brands across betting casino and poker. It owns the Mr. Green online casino as well. So obviously the idea that they could potentially be selling some of this got a lot of attention. Bally's intro lot started getting a bit of a mention in some of the conversations. That then really steps up over the weekend and now both parties have confirmed that talks have been taking place. Yes. It's, it's, it's giving a little bit of a football transfer summer, summer transfer saga vibe this Charlie. They've confirmed interest. So yeah, it's given a bit of a football transfer vibe, but also, as Ted mentioned kind of when Evoke announced the strategic review, there were You know, lots of talk about what could happen next, there's not been, and correct me if I'm wrong, Ted, there's not been loads of players in the game, potentially to take Evoke just because of how much debt Evoke has. And I know we're going to go into that. And also the UK market that Evoke is focused in. um It's a tough one. ah It's one that I'm not sure why you would want to enter right now on paper. It doesn't look great. There are obviously opportunities there, but yeah, there's not been loads of players. So to see baleys emerge. There's kind of excitement around a big player potentially being in the market for a vogue. Yes, certainly. Well, let's give some numbers on this. So I think the rumours are... Well, it's not even rumours. We should throw that in the bin now. It's not a rumour. It might be happening. 50p per share, which is a valuation of around £225 million. That is significantly above the share price. that Evoke was hovering at around the time before the deal was announced. m I believe that the share price was around 27, 28 pence. Evoke, know, is a business that has struggled over the last few years, compounded by those UK taxes and the budget last year, and its share price fell by around 90%. over a 12 month period. obviously Evoke has confirmed those reports. Has Bally's Intralot also commented on this? Ted, how about you give us some colour on that? They have, yeah. They issued a statement shortly after Evoke m updated its own investors, just basically confirming the same thing. You say, yes, we have been involved in talks with Evoke about a potential sale of their business. The deadline for that is 18th of May. They reiterated that nothing's concrete at the moment, they've just been involved in talks. They might decide to make this bid of 50p per share official, maybe they won't. And yeah, they've got until 18th May to reach that conclusion. The thing I did find interesting about the statement and about the fact that Balles and Trillot are involved in this is because it seems like quite a big detour for them from their initial stated goals following the merger between Balles and Trillot last year. em We've spoken about this on the podcast before, know, was... Intralot agreed to acquire Bally's Interactive, which is the international B2B arm of Bally's Corporation. Bally's Corporation secured a big stake in the resulting company and Robes and Reeves, was the CEO of Bally's Corporation, is now the CEO of this combined Bally's Intralot entity. At the time that it was announced... Obviously, Bally's has always had a big stake in betting. They've got Bally Bet. They're a big sort of entertainment gaming conglomerate in their own right anyway. But this combined entity at the time, seemed like its main focus was on the North American lottery space and contracts with state governments and so on to run lotteries, some B2B activity there. So the idea that they might be interested in acquiring a Vogue is quite a big shift from that, think, because obviously that would involve taking on William Hill's sports betting operations, both retail and online. William Hill being one of the biggest brands on the British high street. The 888 group of brands as well, really big, significant international brands there. em Quite prominent in the, like I said earlier, sports betting, online casino, online poker. So that would, it's just very interesting they're looking to enlarge their business so much there beyond the the initial kind of stated focus of lotteries that we got from that merger last year. Yeah. oh To give the other side of that coin, Ted, and you've almost kind of given it yourself in the answer there. I think Bally's does, you know, they do have kind of a strong record, obviously not quite on this scale, but with some of the things they've done in the US where they've taken kind of embattled brick and mortar platforms, brick and mortar outfit, and they've uh given them a resurgence. listen, the scale they would have to do that on with William Hill is significantly bigger because of how many shops there are and how big that retail presence is. if there's a company that can do it, I think it's Bally's and this deal does kind of excite me a little bit. um They've also done good work in the past. They've shown good efforts with the hybrid model with a really omni-channel approach. Uh, something that I think the UK market has been crying out for a growth of in, recent years. Um, so yeah, it's an interesting one. Uh, then they've had as much as, know, you mentioned the intro lot deal, uh, you know, focusing on North America, they have, uh, we've seen a little bit of an appetite from Bally's for the UK market too. Um, they're on a, uh, the, the front of shirt of a, uh, I would have said relegation ridden Premier League team giving her a forest. I can't say that after the weekend said they're on the front of show of a safe Premier League team in Nottingham Forest. we should make clear that though, you know, there will be people within Bally's Intralot who have experience of working on the on the brick and mortar side in the US. It was the interactive side of the business that was that was spun off and merged into Intralot. But, Joe, make very good points that there are significant opportunities. Obviously, there's a lot of work to be done to turn around the William Hill business and the wider Revolt Group. But, you know, that does come with significant opportunity. We've talked a lot about William Hill on the show. There's heritage brand, you know, instantly recognisable with many people on the high street. But, you know... Any buyer for Evoke has to be willing to take on all of the debt that Evoke has, and that's a very significant amount of debt. And we know that through the merger last year, Bally's Intralot has uh way over one billion dollars worth of debt itself. Why do you think it's so prepared to take on Evoke with all that debt that it holds? That would be a group with... $3 billion worth of debt. Yeah, well, you know, we need to see what this deal looks like, right? We need to see, I think it may be framed as a rescue deal and taken over kind of a distressed company on negotiated terms. I don't know what they would pay for the debt, what levels of the debt they would take on. That really depends on what the deal looks like. uh Yeah, we kind of need to wait and see on that. But yeah, I understand the sentiment on paper. It's quite something to be, to be buying, to be taking on a company already laden with debt when, when you were kind of dealing with your own, your own debt issues yourself. Um, but yeah, as a rescue deal, we need to see what it looks like. And Ted, would you echo, echo those sentiments or do you have anything to add? Yeah. I mean, obviously at the moment, the, I think Joe's hit the nail on the head. Really the information we've got is, fairly limited. We just know that they've been in talks. We know that there's this 50 P per share deal, but yeah, Ted. To speak really to their true intentions and what they might be thinking about with the debt, we're just going to have to wait and see what, you you as our colleague, Fernando's hashtag, I guess, there, wait and see, to see what happens when, as and when, an actual deal is announced, if a proper deal is announced, and, what the specific terms of that would be. You know, at the moment, we can't, the only people who can really truly speak 100%, with 100 % confidence about what Bally's Intralot is thinking about this is the leadership team of Bally's Intralot. Fantastic, well, Ted, Joe, we'll go and take a quick break and then we'll, uh, after that, we'll do a little bit of analysis about what this might mean for the wider sector. Welcome back to iGaming Daily. No... I it's safe to say that we're dealing with a fairly tough time for not just the iGaming sector, but for the wider economy. So, with that said, are you surprised that a deal this big might be in the works? Well, guess 225 million isn't, you know, it's not a multi-billion dollar deal, but it's still a significant piece of M &A for Bally's intro lot so soon after its own merger. The M &A market seems to be alive once again in iGaming, uh but... Are you surprised at that, Joe? Can I let Ted go first? I'm interested to hear what he's got to say before I... Yeah. No pressure, Ted. Yeah. God, what's he got planned? em I'd say it's a strange one because the answer I've got is both yes and no, really. It's not overly surprising to see that Evoke has been involved in talks with someone. um I didn't expect it to be Bally's, even though there was the Bally's intro, sorry, even though there were some rumors of it eh over the past couple of months purely because of what we just talked about regarding the debt. em But we shouldn't be surprised that Evoke is making good on its, I guess its promise. Maybe that's not the right word, but you know. What it set out when it announced its strategic review back in December, we shouldn't be surprised that they are obviously taking this seriously and involved in some serious high-level talks with people, with companies that have em some cash at their disposal and who are clearly interested in expanding. The company made it very clear that they were open to talks of a sale, whether that be the entire group or of certain assets, back in December following the UK tax announcements. So yeah, not too surprised to see this Evoke involved in talks with someone like Balles. I guess the thing that for some people that will be surprising though is the fact that Evoke is a business with a lot of exposure to the UK. And as Joe mentioned earlier, it's a very tricky time for the UK betting market at the moment with the remote gaming duty tax increases, that going up in April. We've got another one next year. And there's general regulatory uncertainty here as well I think. We've talked about this not long ago on podcasts about there's a large group of MPs who are pushing for another review of gambling regulations. The government don't seem too keen on it but the pressure is still there. So that's more what's kind of surprising about this I guess is that a company might be willing to open itself up to a lot of the exposure and lot of the pressure that there is in the UK at the moment. Okay, yeah, that is interesting. I guess in some ways I'm similar because there are elements of this deal that have surprised me and then there are elements that, you when I think about it, when I digest it, they don't surprise me at all. I think um the big surprise, the big factor that makes you kind of question it is, as we mentioned, the top half, the top of the last half around the debt. know, Bally's obviously laden with debt. um, you know, to be taken on a vote, um, which is a little bit of a gamble because of the UK market, because of those things that Ted said, and because of the debt they already had, they already have, um, that, surprises me a little bit in terms of this kind of setting a trend in the UK market, not at all. I think this is to be anticipated. Uh, the UK market has, has, has changed. It's going through changes. Um, We're going to see a more kind of, uh, you know, a less fragmented market. We're going to see a lot of M &A. There's going to be an opportunity for, for big players to kind of eat up the smaller players. Um, and Evoque is not a smaller player, of course, but this is, this is just an example of kind of, uh, the, market kind of cannibalizing itself as a result of, of this new taxation era and a much tougher climate. Um, I'm pleasantly surprised. to see a little bit of appetite from Bally's intro lot in the UK High Street. think, you know, if you're taking on a Vogue, you're committing or unless, you know, we don't know what their plans are, but the likelihood is they're somewhat committing to the UK High Street. They're going to, they've obviously got plans with that. And we've seen from their track record, can do things with brick and mortar, brick and mortar outlets. So very interesting there. That is a pleasant surprise. But in terms of How this sets the trend for the UK market. I'm not surprised at all. saw with, um, and Tain's conference call last week, they said, uh, they, they expressed an appetite for the UK market. You know, and we're kind of looking into what that could mean. Uh, and whether that could be M and a, they, expressed M and a in, uh, M and a appetite, you know, in smaller operators. So I think you're going to see a lot more deals, maybe not quite off the scale of this one, but I think M and a is going to be, um, Yeah, the watchword for the UK market. And that's, that's, if I'm honest, that's a tough, a tough road ahead really, because you, you know, we want a market where operators of all size can kind of survive and can grow and can continue to thrive. So yeah, I hope it's not too, too cannibalistic, if you like. let's, let's take, take that UK strand and let's run with it a little bit more because I, A, I think it, I do think it's quite interesting that Ballet's Intralot as a predominantly online company, although it's helping modernise lotteries in the US. It's a predominantly online casino-focused business with some of the brands that it has in the UK. I think it's interesting that they are committing, or we believe that they are committing, that we don't know whether there's going to be closures, but somewhat committing to the high street. But I also think it's interesting that they're making this investment in the UK. given that some of their other exposures with their other brands in this market. We've spoken so much about the challenges that the UK does hold. Ted, I'll throw it to you. Why do you think Bally's intro are so bullish on the UK? I think Joe has touched on this a bit already. m We've mentioned this a little throughout this conversation already. um There's certainly a feeling among a lot of people, a lot of people with access to a lot of resources and capital that despite the UK tax increases overall being bad for the market, and obviously I don't think anyone in the industry wanted to see them go up, there may be an opportunity in the chaos here where, as Joe mentioned, whereas the market shifts as the dynamics change, em Some companies see an opportunity to expand their market share to acquire new customers at the extent of other firms going. We've seen Entain and Flutter both state this. We've also seen some smaller players say it as well. We think that they might be able to get in some more niche markets maybe em and probably capitalise on the fact that a lot of the bigger companies are going to be cutting marketing budgets. not putting themselves out there as much, maybe smaller firms want to get in there. The thing is though, that everyone's been saying this, like, this could be the opportunity for us to expand, but no one seems to want to, no one wants to be the guy who's leaving the market. know what mean? Not everyone will be able to take market share off everyone else, someone's got to go in order for that to happen. there's a lot of optimism in general, not optimism, but A lot of people clearly see an opportunity in there, but not everyone's going to be able to be the one to seize it. Whether Ballet's intro could be the one to seize it is a different matter. Joe has mentioned how they do have a proven background, a proven record in rescue missions, I guess, in the US. They've got a lot of experience of the omni-channel side of things, as Joe also said, which is a... is a field of the betting industry that's very entrenched in the UK. William Hill being obviously a huge example of that. A huge retail chain and a very big online presence as well. I guess, yeah, in some ways, they said in their statement earlier that they see some good synergies of Evoke. That's probably one of them, the omnichannel element. But UK retail in general is still having a tough time. I Evoke not that long ago announced that 200 shops would be, William Hill shops would be closing. I think let's say that in the event Bally's in short does buy Evoke, I think William Hill's shop closures will still go. They'll probably just be focusing very much on cost reduction and efficiency. They'll be looking at how can we keep this on the channel brand afloat and because it's a big brand as you said Charlie, it's a heritage brand. It's the oldest in the UK I think. They're going to be looking at how can we leverage this? How can we use it and maximize it but also We need to look at where we're cutting costs and that will include a lot of the least profitable shops, loss making shops. let's look at this because Ted, you've used a lot of buzzwords there, synergies, cost reductions, operational efficiencies, and these are all things that Robeson Reeves mentioned in Bally's interlot statement. On one hand, you could say that Bally's interlot is... painting itself as evokes night in shining armor, or you could look at it the other way and you could infer that there could be a lot of job losses involved in this. Joe, where do you see the synergies here? And just before we sign off for the show. Yeah, I'll be honest, wouldn't want to speculate on kind of job losses or shop closures at this point. But I think the opportunity in the UK, part of it is in retail because we've spoken about the tax rises, but we should point out that retail was uh shielded from those tax rises. There weren't any tax rises on the retail sector. Also, Ted, when you mentioned kind of the previous shock closures of William Hill, well, I think maybe that stands them in good stead for this deal. kind of trimming the fat ready for the, this to be this deal to go ahead. Um, or, you know, a deal, not specifically this deal, but a deal of this ilk. Um, and yeah, I, you know, I just see, you know, Bally's as an opportunity for a company that can bring something fresh. They can, um, add that omnichannel element. They can innovate in that omnichannel element to a, to a significant level. Um, the retail sector is, is maybe gone a little bit stagnant. It's gone a little bit stale. It's really in need, especially in the new taxation era. It's really in need of that innovation. And if Bally's feel like they can do it with a vote, yeah, that's something that should be quite exciting for the UK market as a whole. Yeah. mean, if I could just, I think you make a fair point there, Joe. It's something that we often overlook a bit in this whole conversation about tax increases. The fact that even with the general betting duty going up next year, em from, is it next March or April? One of the two. I've forgotten which exact month. April. Next April. Thank you, Charlie. em Yeah, even with that going up, retail betting is still excluded. So you could maybe look at this more optimistically. Is this the opportunity for some people to really revive retail betting? If you look at the gambling commission stats, quarterly stats on the gross gaming yield and so on, retail betting is marginally down each time, usually by like one or 2%. gambling survey for Great Britain always shows like a steady drop in retail gambling participation. But yeah, the fact that it's excluded from the taxes does suggest that there could be an opportunity there to revive it. It's just a case of how would you get people back into the shops? You know what mean? That's the big elephant in the room question, isn't it? Well, if you looked at the Valley's kind of last acquisition or maybe not one of their their big acquisitions in the UK was, it was gamesies and you know, that saw them take on Virgin Games, Jackpot Joy, Rainbow Rich's casino. That will leave them heavily exposed to the tax rises. They can kind of mitigate some of that exposure of the UK, in the UK with this kind of a vote purchase if it was to happen. But right now they're kind of heavily exposed. to the tax rises with those platforms being largely, know, iGaming platforms. think there are a couple of sports books started about there, largely iGaming platforms, that's their centric operation. So this kind of spreads that, spreads that, spreads, know, spreads that portfolio in the UK to leave them less exposed to the, to the new era. Okay. Brilliant. Well, I think that's a... great place to leave things. Obviously, this is a developing story that we will keep you up to date with as things develop, as we've mentioned, Ballet's intro has until the 18th of May to make an offer and we will, of course, keep you up to date if and when that does happen. But for now, Joe, Ted, thanks ever so much for joining me on today's show and sharing your thoughts. Thanks to Optimu for supporting the show, as always, and thank you. to our audience for tuning in to today's episode of iGaming Daily, and come back tomorrow to keep up to date with all the latest global gambling news. you