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You are a business owner who wants to prioritize people and planet over profits (without sacrificing success). That can feel lonely—but you are not alone! Join host Becky Mollenkamp for in-depth conversations with experts and other founders about how to build a more equitable world through entrepreneurship. It’s time to change the business landscape for good!
Becky Mollenkamp (00:00.876)
Welcome back as we continue our series about the Feminist Founders framework. As a reminder, if you haven't listened, go back and listen to the episodes that have already aired where we talked about vision, leadership, culture, and now we're gonna talk about systems and decolonizing the systems within our business, how we bring all the things we've talked about into some of the more like practical, for lack of a better word, ways that we run our businesses, whether that's the products and tools that we use,
the systems we have in place with our employees, teams, clients, and then also thinking about things like care, self-care, communal care, collective care. And we haven't yet talked about conflict. That will be what comes next and sort of almost last in this series, but there are potentially some systems there as well. And basically really looking at all the things we've talked about and how do we have systems, because systems are what actually allow us to put what we.
put our words into practice, right? So how do we have systems around the things that we've already discussed in our businesses? So I'm Becky, Faith's with me, and we're going to talk a little bit about this here. And I'll be honest, I feel like some of this is in process for me. It's probably, of all the things we've talked about, the one that feels a little bit the most messy for me. And I think some of that is because so much of what we know about systems involves the use of technology, and a lot of that is changing at the moment. And there's some
you all sorts of issues that that's bringing up. But I'm excited to talk about it anyway, because I think part of this is also just honoring where the mess still continues and that these things that we talk about evolve over time. So how are you, Faith? And what are your thoughts to start on systems?
Faith Clarke (01:46.712)
Well, you know, I I did, I started out my career as a systems analyst and I didn't even know what systems analyst meant. I just knew I was a coder and it took me several years to realize, I implement systems using code, but a system is really any set of steps that's achieving a particular outcome. So it doesn't have to be technology, but we've...
used the technology to automate so many of the systems that we have. And I know as an inclusion and belonging and anti-supremacist specialist thinker, I realized that the systems, especially the technology systems, are three, four, five steps away from the underlying philosophy and theory and culture that these systems are built on.
Right? Like we talked about vision and we talked about leadership and practices and we talked about culture. And then we're talking about systems as a way to implement the culture. But these systems, the technological systems that we use, Slack or whatever that we're using for payroll or whatever, they're built to implement a culture that maybe is not the culture that we're trying to implement. But we are so far away from
how that was designed, that it takes a minute to even figure some of that out. So I think that it's a lovely messy place. It's exactly where we need to be in this conversation about actually changing how we lead and implement our businesses in justice and equity-focused ways.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:30.328)
It's such a good point. think that people can often relate to this where you have an idea, you've worked through, this is what I want this process to look like in my business. As I've thought through, I'll take like a membership as an example, because this is something that I hear from so many equity focused people, where they've thought through creating community.
They thought about the ways they would like it to look, how they want it to run, the culture they want to feel inside of that. So sorry. My mom has decided to show up at the wrong time. I'm just gonna let it.
Faith Clarke (04:08.295)
Yeah, no, it's fine.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:10.254)
I bet it's my mom. I'm gonna text her.
Faith Clarke (04:11.966)
We talk about really life, so.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:16.59)
Well, hopefully, all this will get edited out.
Faith Clarke (04:19.294)
We'll just cut it, it's fine.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:25.046)
All right, Hazel stop. Come here. If I didn't have a dog it wouldn't be such a big deal. She barks and everything. Hazel, come on. Let it go. She can see grandma. So she's waving her tail wanting to say hi. I think she's gonna leave.
Faith Clarke (04:43.51)
his gamma in already.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:45.646)
Grandma is dropping something off and I just texted and said, just leave it under the mat. So hopefully she'll do that and go, okay, hopefully she's quiet. I see this come up a lot with people who are designing memberships or other types of communities where they have really mapped out in their mind and on paper often, which is the beginning of a lot of systems and processes, what they want it to look like, how they want it to function, how they want people to feel inside of that, how they want to show up with that, you know, the culture, the leadership, the vision, all of that is there.
Faith Clarke (04:52.286)
All right.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:15.234)
Then when they go to look for a tool to help them implement that system that they have in their mind, they can't find it. They're frustrated. There isn't a tool that functions the way they want. And I can speak firsthand to this. This has happened to me time and again inside of community settings. The tools don't work the way I want them to work. And there isn't a tool that seems to do it. And if there is a tool, it doesn't have the adoption.
Faith Clarke (05:25.939)
Right.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:42.434)
that is needed for it to be a tool that people will actually use, right? Meaning they're not used to going to that tool so that it's not gonna really function the way I want it to. So often we are left trying to make do with the tools that are available and sort of shove in the thing we want into this, it's like the square peg round hole thing where it just doesn't quite work right. And that is so frustrating for so many of us because
Faith Clarke (05:50.855)
Right.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:10.284)
I think, like you said, all of these things are, well, many of them have been built by white men for the hierarchical, patriarchal, racist experience, know, systems inside of which we live. They're built on all the things we already know around capitalism and they function in that way. So when we're trying to challenge those systems, it's not terribly surprising that we can't find tools to help us implement systems that do work in the way we want them to. And so it can be frustrating because often we're left
trying to like make do and it doesn't feel as good as we would like it to. And I think then we go looking for a better option and we can't find one and it can get frustrating. That can get really frustrating. Have you experienced that and how have you helped people navigate that?
Faith Clarke (06:54.536)
I tend to approach things a little differently when it comes to systems. I think that we should use technological systems for processes that we understand deeply. And this might just be the programmer in me. That before I wrote the code, I had to have a manual process that I knew worked. That means that, you know, there's a way that we can think, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna share a couple of posts three times a week. And I'm gonna, and you kind of have that high level.
sense of what your process and what your system needs to be. But I think that especially for those of us who are challenging these norms, we need a more granular understanding of what it needs to be. And the reality is that for many of us, I'm not a marketing person, neither do I want to be. So that level of granular understanding, it's so effortful, right? But I think to even answer the question, is this tool a helpful tool to me? I need to kind of go on the inside of
the processes I think I need a little bit more. Because we might find if I'm, when I'm helping people, my questions are like, once we've worked out the micro of the process and actually done it with our bodies a little bit, then we can say, which part of this do I want a technological tool to solve? Because it might be, you that it's not the mainstream idea tool. It may be, it's just this little corner of the process that I want to start.
having technology around and I might find a piece of technology that's used in education or that tends to be used in construction, nonprofits, or that there's a way that to break the system up, we have to really fine tune our understanding. And so, yes, I have found it. I have purchased tools like all of us and used it for a bit. And initially I felt like these tools didn't fit the way my brain worked, but I actually am now,
It just doesn't fit the way I think about this work. And it's better for me. So I've opted to be pretty low tech for the time being, because I'm still at that place where I'm saying, I really want an embodied understanding of what I actually want, because getting the tool doesn't help. And hiring a person who's familiar with the tool doesn't help either, because they're implementing according to the old system anyway.
Faith Clarke (09:15.164)
So they, you hire the VA or the two VAs or the executive assistant or the OBM. And that person is still using old school empire thinking though that it's, you know, it's just the stuff that they were taught. And so they're implementing and in some ways crafting me and my work to fit into the tool, like you're saying. So I have opted to lean back a little bit more and to let it be slow.
because technology is supposed to speed things up, but I'm like, speed up what? Speed up the wrong thing? No, I don't want that. I see that happening all over. And I think for many of us, especially in a micro business, which is what we have, we're talking about three, four people. For me, what are we speeding up if we don't know how to do it slow and have the result that we actually want? Because speeding things up and getting the wrong results is also quite devastating.
I've run groups with the wrong software and seen it not adopt. And then I'm trying to figure out what's the way that I want to be and how do I honor myself, what we were talking about? How do I honor myself while hurting myself to try to get this tool to work in the way I want it to? And it became easier to kind of, what's my capacity to do this without the tool to figure out what I actually want and how I actually want it. And then to stay open.
to tools that don't actually fit the mold. Nothing wrong with going back to just Google Docs and Google Spreadsheets and things until you have a flow that feels good.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:50.476)
Yeah, I think that speaks to that, like, why I hear from so many folks who aren't white men that they feel like in their businesses, it's often this like cobbled together system of different tools and answers, solutions for trying to do what they want to do. And that does feel frustrating. But I think it's great to speak to it so people don't feel less alone and to understand why that is. is because of these because when you are trying to challenge the norms.
and you become sort of an outsider to the systems. And so of course they don't work for you. And so you're just trying to pull from what does. We're speaking to, whoa.
Faith Clarke (11:27.324)
This idea of cobbled together, right? There's a judgment in there as if bespoke, handmade, custom, right? Because we're saying this is a thing that actually works for us now. And then we can ask a better question. How do I make this more efficient? That's different from how do I find a tool out there to
Becky Mollenkamp (11:31.682)
Well, maybe. Yeah, I could hear.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:39.342)
Intentionally chosen. Yeah.
Faith Clarke (11:55.806)
But when we've done the custom design work inside our businesses and we actually get something that feels ethical and honorable for ourselves, our clients and our team, then how do we make this better? And I guarantee back to some of our earlier comments that if we're staying aligned with our values and inviting people into our vision, then us together, the collective mind can answer that question. How do we make this more efficient versus, yeah.
Thank
Becky Mollenkamp (12:25.644)
Yeah, no, and I think people feel exactly because my thought is people are feeling this like everything's kind of cobbled together and it often it feels like this personal failing in a way. Like, why can't I make this work for me? This other tool that everyone else seems to be working and why am I having to have 10 things to try and get the thing I want? And I guess I'm saying like it's helpful to reframe that to realize it's not a personal failing. It is because you're trying to do things differently. And I actually think of that as innovative, right? Like this is
Because innovation comes from creativity. And I've heard you say before that you can't be in a marginalized body and not be creative because your existence has to be creative to try and, you know, function within a system that's not built for you. You have to get creative to make it work. And that's what I think we're doing inside a business with a lot of these systems is getting
creative and from that is where innovation comes. And that is how change happens. Right. So while I think sometimes it can feel frustrating because it's like, why can't I just find that one tool that just does the thing I wanted to do the way I wanted to do that very efforting of of intentionally, thoughtfully curating different tools, finding the pieces that work and creating this custom solution is the very innovation, the very creative thinking and innovation that will eventually lead to the change we want to see in the world.
So thank you for pointing that out. And I think that's important. We've started, we sort of have started, I think kind of at the end, because we're talking about tools, which is really about the implementation of the system versus the system itself. So maybe we can backtrack now to talk. I think it's great to start there though, because I think most, a lot of people, when they think about systems, they're just thinking about the tools that they're using. But in fact, it starts before that, because it starts with mapping out, how do you want each experience inside of your business to function and feel?
You know, when you think about every part of the business, what do I want my client to experience from the moment that they first interact with my brand to the point of exiting my brand? Right. What does that experience look like? What do I want to look like for a team member from the moment they learn about my company and potentially working there until someday they retire or leave my company? You know, whatever the pieces are of your business, it's thinking through what is that journey? What is that experience? What does it look like, feel like, and how does it actually
Becky Mollenkamp (14:40.802)
What you have to do to actually make that experience happen the way you want it to? In my mind anyway, Faith, that's what I think of when I think of systems. It's that thought process of step from A to Z, what needs to happen at each point along that way to make sure that your, that journey from A to Z goes the way you'd like it to versus it taking its own path that is not what you want it to be, right? Because I think without systems,
They'll still get from A to Z, but are they getting there the way you want them to in the order you want them to? Or are they going on some journey that is not at all what you intended? So does that feel aligned with your vision of what systems means?
Faith Clarke (15:18.556)
Yeah. And I think just taking it, I guess, going back into the programming analogy for me, it means being super clear on the Z. It means very clear on your vision, your vision in every, if we're using worker experience, you know, so if you're talking about it with people inside your company, so if you're thinking payroll system or
Becky Mollenkamp (15:28.078)
Mm.
Faith Clarke (15:43.998)
you know, meeting facilitation system or even your data storage systems. You know, it's what's the experience that you want your people to have and you are people, you know, so what's the experience that you want to have? And part of my inquiry is also what's the experience that I had that I didn't like in any equivalent business or any business at all. When I'm interacting with a system, what's the thing that
that I kind of react to. So like, I realize I react to anything that looks like a form letter. If I get an email and it looks that, right? So then I am, that tells me something about what I value and my vision. It reminds me of something in my vision, bespoke, custom, relationship, high relationship, you know, that kind of thing. Then I'm asking, what's that look like in my marketing? If it's marketing, what's that look like?
so that I can map the steps out really specific to my outcome. As a programmer, was the worst thing. People would say to you, this is broken and it took such a long time to get, but what do you actually want? Yeah, I know this is broken, but what's the experience you're really trying to have? And I think that can be a hard question to answer. I think once we feel clear on that, then we can begin the...
How do we do that and test a few ways? How do we do it with our bodies? How do we imagine it in our minds? How have other people done it? How have we experienced it done that we hate it? And kind of really pull together a sense of what's the process for making this happen? And so.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:23.852)
Well, it feels like it goes back to the three pieces of this framework we've discussed before this, which is the vision, right? Which is what you're just talking about, which is like, where are we going? What is the world we're creating at large? And then how is my business playing a role in creating that? And then that piece gets to then, what do I want this experience of anyone interacting with this business to feel like, or how are they a part of helping to build that vision, right? And that's that end piece, the Z, what's the Z out of A to Z?
Faith Clarke (17:29.916)
Right.
Faith Clarke (17:48.605)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (17:52.942)
And then the leadership, is how do I want to show up inside of that? And what is my role in facilitating that? And then the culture, is how do we all like, what are we all doing together inside of this? How are we all existing together inside of this? How do we all want to feel together? And the only way to then take all of that from some sort of esoteric exercise into reality is the systems like the actual, okay, so now A to Z, how do I do it? What are the steps that are involved?
Some people are more wired, I think, than others to think systemically, right? Some of us, I think, are more designed at the piece of, I can picture the Z. I picture it great. And I know where A is, because I'm sitting in it. The part where I struggle is, what's B through Y look like? can't tell you how. I could tell you roughly a few. Like, I might be able to give you like K and R.
But like, I can't tell you B, C, D, E, what needs to happen. Not all brains are wired that way, I have found, and other people are more wired that way. And maybe they're not as adept at like saying, I can picture the Z, right? But once you give them the Z, they can tell you, OK, well, then now I can logically think how to get from here to there. So when you are a business of one to start, if you're wired one way or the other, do you have thoughts around how do you start to think about systems if it's not the way you're wired or
How do you figure out Z if you're wired for systems but not for Z thinking? I think for a lot of entrepreneurial types, often we are more the people who can picture the Z but not the steps. That's not always the case, but I think that is more often the case. But do you have thoughts on that, like the figuring out the steps when that's not your expertise?
Faith Clarke (19:37.69)
Yeah, I think that we all can do both the seeing of the Z, the future, and come up with the steps. We just may not be able to talk about it and therefore we may not be able to write it down. And so I think that part of what I like to do is to ask people, have they ever seen Z anywhere? That even if they can't say what it is, it was like, it's like at that time when I went to that place, you know, and have people
acknowledge their own knowing. We do know. We've seen it in other places. We've seen elements of it in place. So if you're not a person who can kind of just sit in meditation, cost your mind five years in the future and map it out, you've probably lived it somewhere, but not in your business. And I tend to kind of have people do that. And then for the process, most, it's rare that I find a solopreneur, an early stage entrepreneur who
has not implemented the thing that they want. They've implemented it somewhere, somehow. They've done it for themselves, they've done it for their friend, for their mother, they did it. And so then I try to help them see the wisdom that they already have in the doing of it. So they do have the process somewhere in their body. I think in conversations like we can have with some of our founders, we can kind of be the listening ear. I encourage every business person to have a business buddy.
where somebody's asking you these questions. So what did you do? And then what did you do? And what did you notice? And what didn't you notice? And then, and that person just busy writing down and then say, hey, so you did this, that, this, that, and this. Or if it is that you are, it's not your area of expertise, but you're doing it kind of roughly and ineffectively. And it's like, who can we talk to? Who is doing this? And then we go and listen for some processes that make sense to us and say, hey, which one do we want to try?
But I do believe that we all have that insight in our bodies. And so it's more about how do we in community listen to each other and be mirrors to each other for this, either the future casting that, you know, we already kind of feel in our bones, but we may not be able to describe. Some of us don't draw pictures very well, so we can't, you know, illustrate it as well as the, I think particularly women are.
Faith Clarke (21:56.67)
are socialized to not give themselves credit for their process thinking. So there's a lot of knowing that's just not being acknowledged. And another person can just say, hey, no, I see you, you did that 15 different ways too.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:11.096)
Well, and I'm so glad to hear you say that as a coach, like that is what coaching is. And at least as far as I'm concerned, coaching is not telling somebody here's your 10 steps. That's strategy. And that's important too. Consultants are valuable and strategy is important. But coaching is, I believe in you, that you have the answers inside of you. You just aren't giving yourself permission. Society hasn't given you permission to find here.
and trust those answers. So let's find a space where we can free ourselves from that and allow you the freedom to find and trust those answers. And I find so often that women, you're right, we have the answers, but we have all this fear around it. Like we just have been made to believe we can't trust ourselves with very good reason, like that we get to that place because of all of the ways that, you know, we have been gaslit about our own knowledge. And so I do think a lot of it is.
just having space, whether that's hiring a coach or like you said, having a biz bestie or finding a collective even better, more minds are always better than fewer, right? Having other people that can do that work. And I think a big part of it is on the decolonizing aspect, which is the last thing I wanna make sure we talk about here, which is it's not just about creating systems, but what does it mean to decolonize those systems? And when I heard you talking about having somebody who says to you, what did you do next? What did you do next?
Part of that, and one of the questions you didn't say, but I know you also believe is, how did you feel? And how did that feel? Because that starts to get at, where are the shoulds? Where are you designing systems because you think they're supposed to look that way? I have to do it like this because this is all I've known. And that, to me, when we start to think about decolonizing, it's starting to deconstruct these beliefs we've been given about what it has to look like to do it right.
to do best practices, to do the thing that we're supposed to do inside of our business, because that's what corporate America has done. That's what we've seen done inside of capitalist systems. And when we start to get at the feeling piece of it, I think that often is where people start to say, well, like the next thing I did is this and this and this. And then when you start to explore, what felt good, it was like, I hated that though. I did it, forced myself to do it, because I thought I was supposed to, or that's what I was told was the right thing to do.
Becky Mollenkamp (24:24.248)
but it didn't feel good or my clients didn't like that or, you and looking for those points of friction to say, what if we free ourselves from the belief that it has to be done that way? What can we start to creatively, innovatively think? What, how could it look? And that can be so challenging because we haven't been encouraged to do that. I mean, from the time we're in school, we are learning how to show up and do what's expected, right? We are learning to be good worker bees. And so learning to challenge those things is really, really, really hard.
But in my mind, when we talk about decolonization of systems, I feel like that's really at the heart of it. Do you agree with that? Is that like when you're talking about decolonizing, because you're far more the expert on that piece than I am, but that's what it means to me. How about you?
Faith Clarke (25:06.876)
Yeah, I think that just to the point that you're making that the body as a source of wisdom is definitely not something that's encouraged, especially not for women. You know, it's like your emotions are taking you away and you're hormones. There's the amount of language that we've gotten to ignore our bodies is remarkable. Absolutely.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:30.858)
and to not trust them, right? think that's exactly that. All of that you just talked about is the ways that we are, we learn from the earliest ages, we cannot trust our body. Yeah.
Faith Clarke (25:41.886)
So that as a decolonizing is for me, I love Giovanni Washington, Dr. Giovanni Washington's definition. Decolonizing is a return to right relationship. And so right relationship with the body, right relationship with the planet, right relationship with knowledge, right relationship with nature. my right relationship with my body is to honor the wisdom that is in it, you know?
Yeah, definitely in terms of our decision making and in terms of our knowing. When I think about decolonizing too, I think about the fact that the colonizer structures had created a hierarchy of human value. so hierarchical structures are built into so many areas of our business and into our business processes. And there's a tuning into that.
hierarchy of human value, hierarchy of knowledge. So there is a right way, there is a one right way and the person at the top of the totem pole has the right answer and others don't. And so as we're building our systems, it's paying attention to what are the assumptions in those systems. So they build a system that says, and then check with faith to see if this is right. And I am,
that we are all kind of new at this because we're all trying to figure it out. The thing with supremacist ideology is that it's still, it is so normal that it feels boring, right? It's just like, yeah, of course that's the way to do it. Check with Becky to see if this is right. And so when I'm inking out a system that puts me as a bottleneck in multiple places, I need to be asking myself some questions as a person who's decolonizing systems. Is that about knowledge?
and am I the source of all knowledge? Is that about power? And I want to be the one deciding all the things. Is that what is that about? And then ask myself some honest questions about what am I trying to create? Because if I said I was trying to create collective thinking and collective ownership, then I might want to say, so this system that says ask faith. And so I think as we are designing our processes, as we're in...
Faith Clarke (28:03.282)
writing those things out, decolonizing is just to look at it through the lens of whatever you've listed your, you know, whether feminist or anti-supremacist values to be, and then say, how does this line up? You know, and to have somebody else look at it with you, because we're all, we're just blind to all our own stuff anyway. So as you write it out, somebody else who also holds the same values is like, look at it and just look at this through the lens of so-and-so, you know, I'm trying to do this equity work. Just kind of tell me your first impression.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:16.489)
Yeah.
Faith Clarke (28:32.55)
you know, and
Becky Mollenkamp (28:34.038)
Yeah, I mean, again, that's where having a values aligned coach, community, partner, whatever that looks like can be so valuable because it is really hard to challenge systems that you again, I from our earliest days, I watch it with my child who's in elementary school and the ways that we are conditioning people to not ask questions, to not challenge systems, right? We are all
born into and raised in that in this culture. And so it's really, really hard to see beyond that, even when you really, really want to, right? Even when you've been doing the work to try and do that. And that's not a personal failure. It's just a, it's a by-product of living these systems. And so having others that you trust that you can turn to, to help you walk through things when you're developing systems or implementing systems to say, have you considered this? Have you looked at that? Like you said, I just think that's so valuable. And I think
Sometimes it doesn't happen because we think, well, we don't want people to think we don't know or whatever. And all of that is still part of that thinking that we're conditioned into. And so it's even more if you're feeling challenged by letting others in and asking them, sit with that and explore it because that's a sign that these things are still really ingrained in you and that there's some work to do there and that's okay.
Faith Clarke (29:52.218)
Absolutely. mean, this is the water we breathe. This is just what we're taking in as we're alive. But that moment when we acknowledge the vulnerability of losing face, you know, it's like, is that about our place in the hierarchy and losing it to go further down? Because we know the value hierarchy basically means that people lower down, have fewer resources, less power, less access, and everybody knows their place. No one wants to have fewer resources.
And that's kind of, that's in the amygdala. That's kind of really foundational. And so when I am there making a decision about power, I want to be, or decision about how people make decisions in my business, what are the things I'm signing off on. I do have to be eyes wide open, you know, to like, am I, is this an opportunity for me to imagine something different and to see what could be possible?
when I create something that's more equitable.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:55.98)
Yeah. And as we do this, as we begin to implement systems, design and implement systems, I think with the design a lot, well, that's not true because if you're designing systems beyond a solopreneur, if you're doing it in this non-hierarchical way, you're bringing in other people into the design of the systems. So unless you're a solopreneur, your not even design is done alone. And then implementation obviously is not done alone. It's done within the community that it's for.
Faith Clarke (31:13.63)
Absolutely.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:22.86)
And so when that happens, conflict is gonna come up, whether it's internal conflict or conflict with others, there will be conflict. And that's what we're gonna talk about next, because that goes into this piece, but all the pieces we've talked about, as you said, it's a thread through all of this, is how do I deal with conflict, challenge, difficulty as it comes up? Because it's inherent in trying to go against what we've all been ingrained in, right? The systems that be when we're challenging those things, there will be.
Faith Clarke (31:28.316)
have to.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:51.672)
conflict, there will be disruption, there will be, you know, hard things that come up. So how do we deal with that? So we'll talk about that one next. So tune in in a couple days when that one's out. Or if you're listening to this later, hopefully you can just binge and go right into it. Anything else on systems though, before we leave this piece that you want to make sure that we cover that we didn't talk about.
Faith Clarke (32:10.834)
Yeah, as part of my decolonizing, think nature is my teacher. And so when we build systems, there's a way that we can get frustrated with the idea that I've built a system now and it's not working in six months. And when I use nature as my teacher, I recognize that all of the systems in nature adapt. They adapted environment and they adapt to the growing. Like my body system is constantly changing based on.
you know, how I am changing and my life is changing. And so just allowing ourselves to build systems with room that the old structures built, you know, for industrial model and before there were building systems like it was iron against iron and it shouldn't move and the whole thing will break down. And as we create something that feels more alive and more human, we're building something that has a lot of room and has a lot of play. And it's a different set of skills needed to
both design and utilize those systems. So when a system that has more play may feel less rigid, and we may judge that as being less efficient, when actually it's just something that's more adaptable, that you can swap things in and out of without it breaking because you've built it in that way. And so I think nature is a teacher and we can ask ourselves, so what do we, what does nature do?
when it needs to shift something and do something different or add some increase something or you know.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:39.38)
It definitely doesn't say, we've always done it this way, right? As anyone who's worked in corporate America has experienced, it's adapt or die, right? I mean, that is what evolution has taught us. And so I love that these things have to grow and change if we want our businesses to continue to grow.
Faith Clarke (33:55.378)
And let's not get frustrated with that. Let's be, that's just normal. That's just being alive.
Becky Mollenkamp (33:58.848)
Mm-hmm. It is. But if you do have discomfort, we're going to talk about how you navigate that in the next episode. So tune in and thank you, Faith, for chatting with me about systems.