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Welcome back to Journey to the Sunnyside! I’m your host, Mike Hardenbrook, and today we’re tackling a myth that a lot of us have believed for way too long—relying on willpower to cut back on drinking. We’ve been told that willpower is the key to drinking less, but my guest today is going to turn that idea on its head.
I’m excited to have Rachel Hart with us— coach, author, and host of the Take a Break podcast. Rachel’s helped thousands of people shift their relationship with alcohol without relying on willpower, and today she’s going to explain why willpower isn’t enough and what you can do instead.
Want to drink less with no pressure to quit? Go to https://ctbk.co/4doo5dq for a free 15-day trial.
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Creators and Guests
What is Journey to the Sunnyside | Mindful Drinking & Alcohol Health?
Exploring the science of drinking less, from alcohol cravings and habit change to moderation, naltrexone, and building a healthier relationship with alcohol. Whether you're sober curious, cutting back, or thinking about quitting, this podcast meets you where you are.
Journey to the Sunnyside is a top 1% podcast reaching over 500,000 listeners every week. Through expert interviews, neuroscience research, and real stories, we cover what actually works — mindful drinking, behavior change, medication-assisted approaches, harm reduction, and more.
Hosted by Mike Hardenbrook, #1 best-selling author and neuroscience enthusiast. Brought to you by Sunnyside, the leading program for changing your relationship with alcohol. Start your free trial at sunnyside.co.
Disclaimer: The views expressed in our episodes do not necessarily represent those of Sunnyside. If you're concerned about your drinking, please consult a medical professional. This podcast is not medical advice.
Okay. Welcome back to Journey to the Sunnyside. I'm your host, Hardenbrook. And today, we're tackling a myth that a lot of us believed for way too long, relying on willpower to cut back on drinking. We've been told that willpower is the key to drinking less, but my guest today is going to turn that idea on its head.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to have Rachel Hart with us, coach, author, and host of Take a Break podcast. Rachel's helped thousands of people shift their relationship with alcohol without relying on willpower. And today, she's going to explain why willpower isn't enough and what you can do instead. So let's first and be honest. How many times have you said things like, I'll only have one drink tonight, and then it turns into two, three, or probably a lot more?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna take the night off. But then something happens and suddenly we've got a drink in our hand, or I'm only gonna drink on the weekends, but then you're having a glass of wine on a Tuesday. So we've all been there, and we've all had those moments. So we're gonna talk with Rachel about this today. Rachel, first of all, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. And, also, I have totally had all of those moments.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that list could go really long. When I was making it, I was like, this is gonna get ridiculous. Yep. So let's just cut it at three.
Speaker 1:So you've mentioned that willpower is often seen as the holy grail for cutting back on drinking. Why can relying solely on willpower be a problem for people that are trying to change?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I don't think that willpower is a bad tool. I think it's just a very overused tool. Right? And so there's this idea of, you know, I should just do what's good for me, or I should learn my lesson. Right?
Speaker 2:I should just be able to say no. And so we often kind of go to this place of, I just need to be more disciplined. I just need to have more willpower. And, again, willpower can be a fine tool in some circumstances. But what happens when you're doing that, you know, when you're always kind of, like, fighting or resisting.
Speaker 2:Right? It's all about discipline. What happens when you do that is you turn the craving that you have into the enemy. And so that's a that's a real thing that I think can be a huge problem. Right?
Speaker 2:Because if the craving to drink, if the desire that you have is either something that you have to fight against all the time, if it's the enemy, or if it's something that you're fearful of. Right? This happens for a lot of people, that they become kind of fearful of it. You're always going to be in this place of feeling like, you know, you are at odds with yourself. You're always gonna be in this place of feeling like you're fighting yourself.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, a thing that I really talk about and I teach people is it's more about like, yeah, let's use willpower or let's use distraction. Right? Let's use it strategically, but not all the time. Right? Because if you're always gritting your teeth, if you're always trying to hide out from your triggers, if you're always trying to, like, hide out from the people that you have a tendency to drink more around, those things just aren't sustainable.
Speaker 2:It's really exhausting. Nobody wants to live in a bubble all the time. Nobody wants to be a hermit. And so I really try to help people see, can we start to respond to our cravings differently? So instead of having this relationship of I gotta I gotta run from them or I gotta go to battle with them, what if we could approach them in in a place of curiosity?
Speaker 2:What if we could approach them from a place of not being kind of annoyed that they're there or fearful that they're there, but really seeing like, hey. Cravings are normal. They're not a problem. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with me. And, the cravings can be kind of a window or insight into what is going on with your relationship with alcohol, with your desire, with the habit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, I think I could be aligned with you considering the book of my book's title is no willpower required. So, I mean, that was something that I relied on for so much. And one of the problems with willpower and one of the benefits one of the benefits is that it sometimes it can get you it takes willpower to build habits. It takes willpower to actually well, it even takes willpower to do some of your own drinking habits.
Speaker 1:Like, a lot of people will think, like, I'm weak or I I don't have strong willpower. Well, like, sometimes on even though it's going against us, it takes willpower to maybe break our commitments, make it out to the to the store when we shouldn't. So people link willpower with either strength or weakness, but I think that and you tell me if you agree that that's even though one tool we have, it's not what we should hang our hat on.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I mean, I think of it as like a finite resource.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right? And it's just like, some point it's gonna run out. Right? Like, we've all had that experience of, you know, whatever. It doesn't have to do with drinking.
Speaker 2:We've all had the experience of, you know, being really good at, like, you know, following a diet or being really good with our spending. And, like, at some point, that finite resource runs out. And so it's like, well, then what? If it you know, if we know that it's a finite resource, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna show up in the moments when it's like, ugh.
Speaker 2:It's like all the willpower is gone, or I had a really terrible day. Right? Or there's something, you know, something major happening in my life. Like, that happens a lot with people is they'll say, you know, everything was going really well with my drinking, and then things got crazy at work. Or then, you know, something's happening with my teenager.
Speaker 2:Or all of a sudden, I'm in charge of taking care of my elderly parents. Right? Or, you know, it's just like, okay. Willpower can work, but it's generally not gonna help you through those situations.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That I have said that myself. Excuse me, everybody. My voice is going here. But I've said that so many times, like, is finite.
Speaker 1:Eventually, it will run out if you that is your only strategy. And so, you know, you couple it with things like you have decision fatigue after a long day. You have those stressful moments that you're talking about. You have depletion of of glucose in your brain that then makes bad decisions. That's why people argue in the evening.
Speaker 1:That's why they make poor decisions. So it's also this is the biggest part. It's a resist strategy. Okay. So, you know, you can only resist so long.
Speaker 1:So if we are looking at this as a finite tool that we can use at times, tell us what's the alternative? What's the alternative approach we should be looking at this from?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think about, you know, when it comes to your cravings. Right? So just like you said, you can resist the craving. Right?
Speaker 2:But that may not work forever. We can also just react to it. Right? We can just say yes and give in and not question it. We can try to distract.
Speaker 2:Right? We can try to just, like, hide from it. But the the tool that I really think works the best and works the best in so many different set situations is how do I actually open up to it? How do I get curious about it? Right?
Speaker 2:So I'm not resisting. I'm not immediately giving in, but I'm also not going to war. I'm also not running from it. How can I actually open up to it? And, you know, in many ways, one of the things that I teach is around mindful drinking.
Speaker 2:And, I mean, this really is a mindfulness practice. Right? It's a a practice of, okay. So there's this craving here. Can I notice it?
Speaker 2:Right? Can I name it? Can I notice it? Can I see what is kind of coming along with it rather than immediately going to these strategies that may work for a bit, but we know have a tendency to not work forever?
Speaker 1:You know, if anything, I think my being mindful with your drinking has more parameters to keep an eye on versus somebody that wants to just give it up and go abstinence because it's just it's yes or no. It's an on or off switch. So what's your approach, like, you know, specific to mindful drinking? Do you have any differences, like, let's just say for any other habit?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean well, I think one of the things is, you know, in terms of I think it kinda blows people's minds, the idea that they can actually be mindful of a craving or name and notice a craving once they've started drinking. Because for a lot of us, myself included, I believed for the longest time, once I start drinking, I can't stop. Right? I had a lot of evidence that that was true.
Speaker 2:And so the idea that I could observe what was happening and kind of tune into myself seemed like, no. I don't that's not not gonna work for me. Maybe it works for other people, but not gonna work for Rachel. And so one of the things that I really talk about is, you know, using questions and useful, powerful questions in that moment rather than what a lot of people do when they're trying to drink less is they go, like, immediately into negotiating with themselves. Right?
Speaker 2:And, like, as soon as you go into negotiating, I'm kind of like, well, you've lost it. Right? Because I'm Yeah. You're just in that place of, oh, I don't know, but, like, my friend is ordering another. Right?
Speaker 2:Or I don't wanna go home this early, or, you know, it was an expensive bottle. I don't wanna waste it. Like, as soon as we've gone into negotiation, we're outside of that place of, Like, I wonder I wonder why I want more, or I wonder why this isn't enough. Like, that I think is a really powerful question. Because when you start getting curious about, like, why isn't this enough?
Speaker 2:You have to answer the question of, like, enough for what? Right? Like and and that then brings us to kind of a a a next level or a deeper level of, okay. So, like, what is my desire about? Again, yes, it can just be, right, the the pleasurable sensation that alcohol is creating.
Speaker 2:Yes. You know? But there's more to it. I think we don't we don't examine drinking kind of from that many faceted view to see like, well, yeah, enough for what? Right?
Speaker 2:And so I think asking those questions can be a really powerful thing. And again, you're not going into the place of negotiation. You're going into a place of curiosity.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love that because recognizing patterns in your behaviors in the moment, I feel like it's so much more powerful than it is, like, negotiating with yourself or just being like, I'm not gonna drink or I'm not gonna order another one and saying that over and over at dinner, like, you know, if somebody else orders one. Like, for example, a couple strategies that work for me is that I realized that, like, past a certain point of drinks, like, the euphoria, that's it. Like, and I'll say to myself, and anything after that is gonna have diminishing returns and also negative consequences. So I'll say to myself, like, this is as good as it's gonna get.
Speaker 1:So if I'm negotiating with myself and my prefrontal cortex is down and not able to resist in the way I can also recognize that and say, hey. Listen. You know, I'm probably not making the right decisions. This is as good as it gets. And then sometimes even if that doesn't work, I'll be like, you know what?
Speaker 1:I usually, the next day, never look back and say, damn, I wish I would've ordered another one. So, like, some of those, instead of, like, resisting, I sort of have those negotiations with myself. Are there some strategies that that you like to go to?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I really like is the question, is all of me still enjoying this? Right? And to really like, all of me. Right?
Speaker 2:I think sometimes what happens, people will really they'll they'll really just be amazed to see that this thing that you're like, oh, this is my like, this is my favorite kind of wine or this is my favorite drink. Right? That your experience of consuming it will not be consistent through the entire glass even. Like, that when people have that realization and then to start to see you know, when I, like, tune into myself, I definitely get to a point where I'm kinda like, I don't know. I it's I experience it in a very visceral way that I it almost things will start to taste, like, a little too acidic.
Speaker 2:Like, I'll notice that, you know, I'm I'm getting that kind of, like, puckery feeling in my mouth. Again, this is like unique to what I've experienced when I've practiced this. But to be like, okay, so the reward center, right, like my lower brain may be like, yeah, more, more. Right? But it's like, is all of me having an experience where I all of me enjoys this right now?
Speaker 2:And it's very fascinating to notice sometimes you're like, no. Right? There's a part of me that's like, oh, I think I've actually, like, reached the limit here. That doesn't necessarily mean, right, that your lower brain has stopped calling out for more. This is why I think it's really powerful to work with cravings, right, and to have this openness to cravings because I think I was just talking about this yesterday.
Speaker 2:You know, I was saying that I am I'm never saying to people, like, you know, do this work and you're never gonna have a craving again. Right? Like, cravings are a a normal part. Like, the the reward center of our brain is like a normal part of how the human brain is supposed to function. And I think a lot of times, you know, people will will think like, oh, I I shouldn't even want it.
Speaker 2:Right? Or I shouldn't it's bad for me. And and so when it's like, listen, cravings happen. Right? And that's not a problem.
Speaker 2:It's it's how to change how you respond to it, how you your relationship with the cravings. Right? Like, that piece can be really powerful.
Speaker 1:That is. And I also I wanna dive into that a little bit because everyone wants to talk about how do we respond to cravings, but I don't think there's enough conversation to how do we interpret this, and how should we feel about it? Because there can be even shame from cravings that you don't even act on.
Speaker 2:Totally. I mean, I can yes. That is, like, a huge unexplored area. This idea that people will be like, oh my god. I didn't even act on this craving, but just having it, it somehow means that something's wrong with me or that, a lot of times people will say like, oh, I guess it means I haven't really changed.
Speaker 2:Right? Like, I thought I had changed. Or sometimes people will have like, the little long periods of time. Right? This happened for me.
Speaker 2:All the long periods of time without a craving, and then like, it felt kind of, like, out of the blue. My brain was like, you wanna have a drink? Right? And I was like, oh my god. What like, what does that mean?
Speaker 2:And now I see, you know, it it means like the brain's being the brain. Right? Like, nothing has gone wrong. But so often, I think because we're taught to see cravings as the enemy, right, as the problem, something that we have to resist against, it's no surprise then we feel shame when they appear sometimes even when we don't act on them because it's like, oh, this isn't even supposed to be here. This is a bad thing.
Speaker 2:I shouldn't be I shouldn't be desiring this thing that I know creates negative consequences or I know is bad for me.
Speaker 1:I mean, I've definitely experienced it. I mean, here I am. It's like, I've written a book. I talk about this, all these things. But early on, I've I'd still get cravings.
Speaker 1:Of course, they weren't gonna be the same, and the difference is how do I respond to those. But I worked through that myself, and I'm just like, well, look. I'm still human. That doesn't mean I need to go back and fix things. I'm never gonna have a perfect record in anything that I do in life.
Speaker 1:But definitely, like, how you respond to the cravings, not that they exist, I think, is a really important thing to understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'll I'll, you know, I'll share an experience. So I used to you know, before I became a coach, I used to travel all the time. I was always on the road. I was, like, always in new countries.
Speaker 2:So I spent a lot of time in hotels by myself. You know, you spend a lot of time in hotels by yourself. You know? And for me, I was like, okay. Well, there's a minibar.
Speaker 2:Like, there's a hotel bar. And so I had, you know, I created a lot of connection in my brain between, like, hotels, you're on the road, you're traveling by yourself. And a lot of times, I was often, you know, probably not acknowledged at the time, but having a lot of emotion. Right? Like, a lot of, like, either lonely or kind of unsure, like, is this even what I wanna be doing with my life?
Speaker 2:But so I had created that connection in my brain. So fast forward, you know, I don't know, maybe fifteen years later. This happened last fall, and I was again, I was traveling on my own for work, and I just had I had a terrible day. Like, of those kind of, like, terrible, no good, very bad days. I was feeling I was having a lot of shame about something, and I went back to the hotel, and, like, I walked through I don't know.
Speaker 2:It was like a Holiday Inn Express. I don't know where it was, but, the door is open. And I walked through and I totally just heard my brain be like, we could just go up and get drunk. Right? Because I was like staying in a room with like a full bar.
Speaker 2:And at some point, like, if that had happened to me, you know, before I understood this work, it was like, where the where did this even come from? Like, oh my god. I guess I I haven't actually changed. Right? I haven't changed my relationship with alcohol.
Speaker 2:I'm just doing I'm having you know, doing nothing and then having this desire. And in that moment, right, I was still having a crappy day. I still felt really bad. But I had this ability to be like, oh, Like, that was a craving. I wonder what that was about.
Speaker 2:And and really, on the ride up to my room, right, it was like the elevator ride up to my room, I I had this realization of like, oh, this is just like an old coping mechanism. Like, your brain is like, this is what we do when we're feeling bad on the road and we're by ourselves in a hotel. Right? It had learned that pattern. And by the time I got to my room, it wasn't like I magically felt better.
Speaker 2:Right? I still I still was having a bad day, but the craving had completely subsided. Right? Because I didn't attach all this meaning to it. Right?
Speaker 2:I didn't immediately be like, oh, yeah. We should definitely do that. But I also wasn't like, oh, god. Like, what I can't even believe that I'm thinking. Like, this is something we do.
Speaker 2:We just, you know, get wasted in a hotel room by ourselves. It was just like I didn't have any judgment. Right? I was able to kind of observe it and get curious, and that made it lose all its power. And so I think that that piece when when people realize that you can do that, that you can actually relate to your cravings in a way where they lose their power over you, that is really profound.
Speaker 1:Alright. That's such a good story. And the other thing they go is probably going on when you did this that other people probably can take note of is that if you do have a craving and maybe a a trigger atmosphere like you were with a hotel, that definitely at one time was it's, you know, sometimes even airports. And, yes. Airports for sure.
Speaker 1:It's the Wild West. So but, you know, if you get past that, you can also take note of not only what was going on in the craving, like you said, but your brain also can start attaching positive outcomes and benefit to not acting on that craving, and you can start to re rewire your brain a little bit in the automatic responses in those settings by not acting on them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, you know, of course, I was sharing an example of, you know, a a moment where I had a craving and I and I said no to it. Right? But I I think that this work is still possible, right, even if you say yes to it. And so, you know, a lot of times, you know, one of the things that I'm helping people really recognize and understand is, okay.
Speaker 2:Let's just kind of back up here. And something that can feel like, well, I just, you know, once I start drinking, I'm off to the races. Right? Like, it's just to really understand, like, you know what? We are making, like, so many micro decisions along the way.
Speaker 2:And this idea of, you know what? You you we can say no. Right? But so often, what we've practiced is, well, it's like the genie's already out of the bottle, or you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Right?
Speaker 2:This idea of, like, well, once I started, you know, there's no point stopping now. And so helping people really see listen. There are these, like, micro decisions happening along the way, and they may be happening at an unconscious level. But when you get curious about your cravings, you will start to see them more. Right?
Speaker 2:And then the more that we have awareness around it, the more we can start to intervene with it.
Speaker 1:I like that because the micro commits and the micro decisions that you make, you should take note. I actually thought about this and and talked about this recently that you can even celebrate small wins. So, like, passing it instead of opening the bottle and drinking it all. Only having two and passing on it and seeing how you feel and how positive you feel Mhmm. Around making that decision and taking note or even saying, I'm gonna moderate at this party.
Speaker 1:Enjoy and celebrate that nonalcoholic drink that you're mixing in between drinks, and you can actually get benefit where your brain associates something positive to it, not just resisting.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, the micro wins, I think, are huge because, of course, we wanna approach it as like, do I have to do everything a 100% perfectly? Right? Or else it's not worth acknowledging or it's not worth celebrating. And frankly, you know, the journey I always say this.
Speaker 2:Like, the journey to change your drinking, it's not gonna unfold the way that you think it should. Right? It's not gonna happen in a straight line. There are going to be obstacles. There are going to be twists and turns.
Speaker 2:But, you know, if we always make it mean, right, when something unexpected happens or it's like, well, I should you know, this sounds like a really easy tool, but then it it didn't work when I applied it. Right? If we're always just going straight to the place of I failed, right, it's very easy to get feel defeated and to get derailed from the progress that you're making. And so the ability to just celebrate like, I I have a whole thing of, you know, giving people best practices for what to do after drinking too much. Right?
Speaker 2:When your brain just wants to go into that shame spiral. Right? There can be a win in your ability to look at it differently, to not go into shaming and blaming yourself. Right? To to actually say, like, you know what?
Speaker 2:There's something about the habit that I don't think I understand yet, right, that unfolded last night. What if I can get curious about that?
Speaker 1:You have to recognize the jury. I mean, that's such an insight. Instead of looking back, you know, I could look back at all the years that I did things that, you know, I wish I would have changed and be like, you know what? I don't think I'd be where I am today and who I am and learned the things that I know if I didn't have to go through that. So you have to look at it instead of just looking back with regret or shame.
Speaker 1:What can I learn, and how can I move forward?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I always you know, something that gave me a lot of relief very early on in my journey, especially around, you know, instances where I was drinking and I was really embarrassed about my behavior was just this idea of, you know, I was doing the best that I knew how with the tools that I had. Yes. Right? And, like and and let's be honest, we're not given a lot of tools around drinking.
Speaker 2:Right? We're not really set up to have healthy, mindful relationships with alcohol. And a lot of times, we will fall into these kind of unconscious patterns that we don't even we're not even fully aware that we're in. And it's like, I was doing the best that I knew how, right, with the tools that I had. And that is a big piece of it to just say, like, yeah.
Speaker 2:Your relationship with alcohol that right now, it might feel really frustrating, and it might be like, am I ever gonna figure this out? To really understand, it can be it can be something the skills that you learn around this can actually be something that you can apply in all areas of your life. Right? Because we have cravings in all areas of our life. We don't just have it around alcohol.
Speaker 2:We need tools for, you know, how do I deal with, you know, when I'm feeling deprived or when I'm feeling awkward or when I'm really stressed out. Right? Like, so I always see this, you know, my own journey with alcohol and and figuring this out, it really was about laying the groundwork for for improving all of my life and for, you know, helping kind of uplevel how I showed up with myself and how I showed up with in life. So it doesn't have to be I think a lot of times people wanna look back on the years where it feels like, ugh. It's just like drinking a lot and, like, those were the bad times.
Speaker 2:Right? And, like, ugh. Like, let's close the door on that. We don't wanna look at that. And that's not how I view it, you know, for myself at all.
Speaker 2:Right? I have a lot of compassion for that that person, and I also see, like, listen. I I needed to go through that to get to where I am now, to have figured out a lot of this.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of lot of wisdom there because I can attest that saying, you know, I did the best I could Mhmm. With the tools that I had. And so if anybody's listening and they they find themselves in this kind of regret trap, start using that because I can back up everything that Rachel just said that that seems like such a small thing, but it's really, really powerful.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, it just it it gave me, you know, so much freedom. I will say another one was, you know, telling myself, you know, I've not always been the best version of myself, which makes me just like everybody else. Right? And, you know, not everybody struggles with their drinking.
Speaker 2:Right? But, like, everybody struggles with something, and we all have areas where we don't show up, right, the way that we want to or the best version of ourselves. And for me to I I think this is the thing. Because there's so much stigma and shame around drinking, people tend to really just try to figure it out in their heads. Right?
Speaker 2:And they don't wanna talk to their friends. They don't wanna talk to family. Right? I certainly didn't. And when you're in that place of keeping it all very, like, close to the chest.
Speaker 2:Right? You are in you are inadvertently creating this experience of feeling very alone. Right? And that feels terrible. And so to recognize not only are you not alone, but also, like, listen, we all have.
Speaker 2:Like, every human has some sort of struggle somewhere. Right? And I don't know why. I don't know how it shakes out. Right?
Speaker 2:That, like, mine happened to be around alcohol and, you know, my best friend happened to be around something totally different. But, like, she has her struggles too. And so to just, like, I think so much of this work so much of this work is learning how to feel more connected to the struggles that everyone has and not feel so alone, and also just have more compassion for myself.
Speaker 1:Well said. I mean, that's one thing I've understood, and it it doesn't even necessarily have to be alcohol is that it makes you feel alone, but you're not alone. Once you start to realize that, you understand that, well, I'm not perfect. I'm not gonna have a perfect record. I say that sometimes to myself.
Speaker 1:I'm not I'm never gonna have a perfect record in anything I'm doing, not just alcohol, but anything. But I'm gonna do the best I can, and that's kinda what everybody we're all doing this thing called life the best that we know how.
Speaker 2:Yes. Totally agree.
Speaker 1:This has been amazing. And before we go, I wanna know, are there any projects that you're working on? Anything that has you really excited, maybe even a trip, but I'd love to learn a little bit more about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, I will tell you, I I just released a book called The Ultimate Guide to Drinking Less, which is something I'm I'm so excited about because it has been a real labor of love, and it really is, you know, it's kind of the tool that I wish someone would have given to me on those mornings when you wake up, and you're just like, oh my god, like, can I hide? Right? Under the covers, like, I do not wanna face the world. And so that's one thing that I'm really excited about.
Speaker 1:Well, where can somebody go and learn more about that?
Speaker 2:You can just go to my website, rachelhart.com, and you can you can learn about it there. You can purchase it there.
Speaker 1:Well, this has been so much fun. Thanks for taking the time. Thanks for sharing your insights, and thanks for putting up with my voice going out the door.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Rachel. That's it for today's episode of Journey to the Sunnyside. A big thank you to Rachel Hart for sharing these insightful strategies on how to cut back on drinking without relying on willpower. And if you're ready to take the next step, head on over to sunnyside.co and take our three minute quiz for a personalized plan to help you make small but impactful changes. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at join Sunnyside for more daily tips, success stories, and inspiration.
Speaker 1:If you found today's episode helpful, hit that subscribe button so you don't miss out on any future episodes. And until next time, keep moving towards a healthier, more mindful relationship with alcohol.