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Long Game: A Heated Rivalry Podcast is a re-watch and deep-dive podcast dedicated to Heated Rivalry, hosted by Declan and Silvan. In each episode, we revisit key moments across the series, unpacking the slow-burn tension, character development, and emotional beats that make the heated rivalry world so compelling. Through thoughtful discussion, close reading, and a fan-informed lens, we explore themes of competition, intimacy, identity, and growth over time, celebrating not just the heat of the rivalry, but the long game it takes to truly understand these characters and their relationship.
New episodes published every Sunday
Declan (00:00)
Hi everyone, welcome back to Long Game, Heat of Rivalry podcast. I am Declan, this is Selvyn. We are taking a quick look through one of the books by Rachel Reed that inspired the series. ⁓ If you aren't aware of it, the Game Changers series is what Heat of Rivalry is sort of contained within. ⁓ So the first book is actually called Game Changers and this is the story of Scott and Kip.
I'm so they are entirely different story and they're actually the very first book so what we decided to do through a book club in fable is to go through the book compare to the show and get our thoughts and opinions on you know what sort of differences do we like what things do we not like how do we find the book compares to the show and vice versa so this is your first time reading game changers what.
are your general thoughts.
Silvan (00:59)
It is. I very much came into this sort of realm having the TV show in the back of my mind and it very much still has been. So starting off with Game Changer and reading it, I couldn't help but compare it naturally to the TV show. And so I had to sort of almost suspend both thinking it's almost the same story, but almost two different realms of the same story.
Declan (01:17)
Yeah.
Silvan (01:28)
because they're being told by two different people in a way.
Declan (01:31)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that happens a lot with adaptation. A lot of people say when Lord of the Rings came out, it's this super fast paced, action packed ⁓ gem of a movie. It's beautiful. It's amazingly paced. But then they go and they read the book for the first time and the pacing is a lot slower, lot more leisurely. There's a lot of different events that go on that aren't included. And the characters are also quite different.
So there's always like a bit of whiplash when it comes to the adaptation because people can't help but compare one medium to another. Even though any sort of film or TV director will tell you that you simply cannot directly translate something from page to screen. It's just not possible. It's there's too many little nuances that are lost that you need to compensate for in different ways and some things that just don't work. think George R.R. Martin actually put it a great way.
⁓ in terms of like why were certain events left out of the sort of Game of Thrones TV series that were in the books. And he basically says, well, I have a non-limited budget when I'm writing a book. Like I can include as many dragons and as huge armies, as many battles as I want because my budget is limitless when it comes to TV. You need to pay for the CGI for that's kind of stuff that happens. So that's just a little aside about adaptations because I'm going to be
very conscious of the fact that people are reading this book for the first time after watching the show and that you're going to find that a lot of it is a little different.
Silvan (03:09)
Exactly. And I'm even thinking about growing up, I read a lot of English classical literature. I read Wethering Heights, I read Thomas Hardy and some of those books are, especially Hardy. Hardy is slow. It's a very slow pace and nothing happens for a whole chapter almost. so
Coming into sort of film or TV adaptations, you're right, they have constraints. They have a limited number of episodes, for example, six episodes for the Heated Rivalry show. And so there were just some things that you're going to lose. But conversely, think there are things that can be lifted and changed almost for the better.
Declan (03:39)
Thank
Do you feel that that was the case with the show compared to the book? Maybe some things were a bit more elevated?
Silvan (04:00)
So I think just to preface, we're going to be splitting this episode into two parts. So we're going to do one half of Game Changer this week, and then we'll do chapter 15, including chapter 15. And then we'll do the second half in the next episode. So I've only read up until chapter 15. On the whole, and I'm being...
mindful of the words I'm using because I know people have a real affinity to this intellectual property, whether it's the TV show or the book.
I felt the TV show was a little bit more elevated than what I've read so far. And I know people are going to come at me, but I'm happy to be changed in terms of my mind in the second half. I don't know what you thought.
Declan (04:46)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think. And this is absolutely no disservice to Rachel Reed. This is these are her ideas, her imagination. She created these really interesting and complicated character arcs for these for these characters that she's she sort of summed up out of nowhere. And she's done a really good job of creating a world and definitely
you know, props to her for that. ⁓ But her early writing is not the sort of same standard we're talking about in terms of TV show, ⁓ which is fine. Whenever she was first publishing these books, she was still a bit more inexperienced. She wasn't as well established as a professional writer. So her earlier works definitely do come across a bit more basic. ⁓ And then when you try to compare it to someone that has had a lot of artistic
⁓ input from many different sources, taking the source material and uplifting it to something completely different. You know, that's nothing really on Rachel Reed. That's just down to the sheer talent of the sort of show runners and the people that they managed to get on board to sort of bring their own personal talent, their own touch to sort of bring the story to something else. But you will notice that perhaps the book isn't quite as good as the show. And no, keep in mind we've not.
read Heat at Rivalry yet. So I just mean in terms of Scott and Kip's story. I think in terms of the show, I buy more into them there than perhaps in this book, but we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves. Okay. So let's start off first with the basics. Like what did you think of first Scott from his book counterpart compared to the TV show?
Silvan (06:44)
Well, Scott is blonde. In the book.
Declan (06:46)
Got the plant.
And plants have more fun.
Silvan (06:50)
But I was completely thrown off. I know there's a book cover, but I was trying to suspend myself with a book cover. But the way Scott is described is I think a little bit taller. He's blonde, you know, and if you're blonde, you're a fairer skinned. it was really hard for me because I do have this bias because I watch the TV show. It was hard for me to switch the image of Scott I have from Francois, the actor, to this blonde
Declan (07:11)
Mm-hmm.
Silvan (07:20)
you know, heartthrob ⁓ in the book. And so that was the first thing that really struck me. I was really trying to pivot and that caused some dissonance within me already. So there are some scenes that I can imagine Scott being blonde, but there are some scenes that match up very closely with the TV show that I just go back and picture Francois in.
Declan (07:24)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's because Francois is so magnetic as the character as well. It's very hard to separate them from their sort of book counterpart at that stage. whenever I think of like Katniss Everdeen from The Hunger Games, can, even though I read the books first, and I loved the books, I literally cannot see anyone else other than Jennifer Lawrence as Katniss Everdeen now, because she so perfectly emulated the character.
that they're inseparable at this point. So I get that same thing with Francois because I don't remember Scott being blonde from my first read because all I see is Francois. And then when I went back and I reread this for the podcast and for the book club, I was like, yeah, he's blonde. I completely forgot about that. He's blonde and he's young.
Silvan (08:36)
Yes, he's 28. As a lot of people...
Declan (08:37)
28 which is young guy
is young. All right, it's young. Please let me keep that please but
Silvan (08:46)
It's very
young Declan and we've had upteen amount of comments about why do you think Scott is so old and why is he in his 40s? Because of the TV show.
Declan (08:57)
Yes, exactly. So when discussing that and whenever I was bringing it up, was because the TV show makes it clear that he is like a veteran player. He's well respected. They call him old man, like whenever they're in the show. But he's not that old in the book. In the book, he's quite young. He's like an hour 10 years in him, at least of playing. Which is interesting for the difficulties that having Capricorn encounter.
because there's a lot of secrecy and staying hidden in this book and in the TV show. But in the TV show, the idea is that Scott only has a couple more years of this, just a couple more years, and then he's done and he can retire. And maybe they can then pick up the relationship at that point and deal with that. But in the book, Scott's 28, which means Kip would have a decade at least of this, which is a lot, that's a lot different.
It's a much bigger ask. And a lot more unrealistic, I think. But delusional maybe. Whereas in the show I think aging him up makes a bit more sense.
Silvan (10:15)
I think it worked. definitely worked. And I think I know that, you know, Jacob Tierney chose Francois for a reason. I mean, let alone the abs for goodness sakes. you know, I don't know anyone else who has abs like him, but I think aging him, you're right, is, was a really smart decision to do because it elevates the story in terms of the, the, the finality of it or their journey in a way. and so I enjoyed,
Declan (10:24)
⁓ yeah.
Silvan (10:44)
I enjoyed reading about a younger Scott and what that might look like because for me, what that did was it gave me more grace towards that character. You know, this is a young guy. This is a guy who's making mistakes. And in fact, I didn't feel quite so irritated with book Scott than I did TV show Scott.
Declan (11:07)
Mm-hmm.
He's a lot more naive in the book and it comes across a lot more. You can tell it's an experience and I think when you do get those interactions between him and in the book, you can tell that Scott is just as sort of out of the loop as Kipp is and that he doesn't quite know how to interact with him in this relationship. It's very sweet. So it is.
Silvan (11:36)
It feels juvenile in a not a critical way, but in a way that feels like they're teenagers rather than 20 something year olds.
Declan (11:44)
Yeah,
it's more endearing so it is rather than ⁓ this guy Like why is he behaving like this? He's nearly 40 like it's that sort of But I do It's it's I wonder how they make these decisions like Jake Terry is probably aware that there was a trade-off there Where you know, maybe we're gonna make Scott seem a little less sympathetic
we age them up, but in our ways, we're also able to make the conflict within the relationship seem more reasonable and more realistic. ⁓ So I would like to know his sort of creative process for figuring out decisions like that. ⁓ That would be very, very interesting, I think.
Silvan (12:32)
want to see what Jacob Tierney's whiteboard looks like when he's developing the story and what he's doing currently. Yeah, right. And what he's doing currently with season two, for example. think I think it was smart to change Scott's age because in a way then you have these two couples running in parallel. But there's a difference between Scott and Kit because of the age factor as well. You know, you don't have two different couples going through the same thing at
Declan (12:36)
Yeah, it's conspiracy board.
Yeah.
Silvan (13:01)
similar ages, it would feel repetitive and too coincidental in
Declan (13:07)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. think the differences that I see between the children in the book in relation to his character really do make sense. how did you find Kip?
Silvan (13:24)
So what I found was, which is really humorous actually, and I'm physically holding the book up now because I, and people are gonna roast me for this, but I make notes in the margin. And so I know people don't like that, ⁓ but it's my book. I'm not gonna lend it to anyone. If they do, they can read my notes. I don't mind. ⁓ But for Kib, what I found in one of these sort of forwards that
Declan (13:37)
You
Silvan (13:51)
Rachel writes and who she dedicates it to. She dedicates the book to Matt, of course, but then at the end she also says, and also to the random gap model, who was my physical reference for Kip.
Declan (14:05)
Hehehehehe
Silvan (14:07)
And
she's right, Kip looks like a model, let's be honest, in the TV show as well.
Declan (14:13)
Yeah, he
does. He's this gorgeous looking man, perfectly proportioned in every single way. ⁓ And has like a real sense of warmth about him as well and sort of youthfulness. I really like the casting the sentence in relation to Kip. I think he really does bring him alive in this book or in the TV show from the book. But a lot of people don't like Kip in the book.
Silvan (14:44)
Interesting. I wonder if there's something coming in the second half of the book that's going to make me not like him because I'm not there yet. He's somewhat at least up until chapter 15. He's a little flighty, a little indecisive, but I haven't gotten to the main conflict yet. So I'm still very much in that honeymoon period between Scott and Kip.
Declan (15:03)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
yeah, it'll be interesting to hear your opinion of Kip after you've read the second half of the book. I think that'll be interesting. for this first half, I think you're right. There is something quite blighty about him. He's very inconsistent. He's not very motivated and he's sort of reserved to like failure in a sense as he views it in himself. ⁓
you find that a lot of his friends are actually the ones that are sort of pushing him along, sort of like shoving him out the door, do that thing, go do that thing. We've done the thing for you because you refused to do it. It's that sort of, ⁓ he's a very passive protagonist. So he is. And that can work in certain situations and in certain stories. I think it works as a storytelling tool in this book ⁓ because very much
Kip is getting swept up in this. Like he is just going right along with whatever Scott wants because he is so enamored with him. ⁓ And it does turn him to love obviously, but that initial ⁓ acceptance of the dynamic of their relationship I think was very interesting and very telling of his character. ⁓ Yeah, I thought it was.
An interesting choice that does make sense as the book goes on.
Silvan (16:39)
Yeah, I very much feel like Kip is nailed down in terms of characteristics and his looks. Like I don't imagine anyone else apart from Robbie from the TV show like I do with Scott, for example. But what I think about Kip at least so far is again, this is a very young person navigating post-uni life. Like how many of us felt
like we didn't know what to do after our degrees. And I know I worked really weird jobs after my degree, sort of trying to get a foot into the industry that I'm in now. And I kind of sympathize with him for that. Yes, I didn't work as a barista in a smoothie shop, but I was a waiter in a hotel and a very bad waiter at that. So I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for what KIPP is going through because I can think back.
Declan (17:11)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Silvan (17:38)
to how I tried to navigate that and I navigated it really. It felt clumsy. I was just falling into things.
Declan (17:45)
Yeah, he's a very good representation of what it's like to be in your early twenties. Like you're still living, a lot of people still living from home. You're usually in a job you don't want to do. You realize that there are no graduate jobs and that uni is not sort of what it's painted to be. And you're stuck in a whole lot of debt and no idea sort of how to progress your life at that point. After I left uni, I went and worked in a bar for six months. That was, it's just typical.
And I will never use my degree in a professional manner outside of like analysis and stuff like this here. Obviously it's useful in different ways, but I will never become like a director or anything like that. They're like, that's not, that's not going to happen. But I do like the way that Rachel captures that sort of feeling of being in your early twenties and having no direction. But
I feel like people in Kip's life are a lot more pushy of what he should be doing. ⁓ They're much more active in pushing him towards his potential. So they are and I do like that. His friends, he has even more friends in the book by the way, his friends are very actively pushing him to do stuff.
Silvan (19:02)
Yeah, and as you were talking, I was just reminded of sort of Gilmore Girls and how Rory stumbles off to uni, especially in season seven, but even in the revival when they come back, like I 10 years later or something, she's still stumbling. And it kind of made me feel like, okay, it's okay to really be a bit lost in your field. And it doesn't always come, they sold us a lie deck.
They said, go get a degree. You'll get a job afterwards. They lied.
Declan (19:31)
Me too.
get me started, right? All they were doing was trying to improve the unemployment numbers because if you're a student, you're not going to unemployed and then you come out and all these graduate jobs that they talked about don't exist because people retire later, which means these companies don't need skilled people as much. And you're pushed into it whenever you're like, if you don't know me and Sylvan are in the UK.
We, ⁓ in UK schools, you're really, really pushed into university. If you are anyway, academically competent, like you don't even need to be that smart to be honest. Like you will be taken into university if you really want to go. and most of the degrees are in terms of like a career prospect about pointless. they are, ⁓ like skip constantly talks about how pointless his degree is.
⁓ you know, the best thing you can hope for is like become a history teacher or something like that. That's what he believes. but his friends are pushing him to like fervor like his aspirations, like go back to your masters. Like you could come like a museum curator or someone along those lines. And, they really do try to push him to use that. But for the vast majority of people in reality, if you're doing a history degree, it's absolutely worthless to you unless you were coming like a teacher. So you are those big jobs.
are typically gotten through placements and through actual experience and being there and connections and stuff like that. That's usually how those jobs actually go. It very rarely goes to a graduate that just got out of university. So this idea of the doom of the graduate where you come out and you realize that there's nothing really waiting for you and this might have been a little bit of a waste of time.
That's captured so well for Kep in this book, but it also captures the way out of it, which is to push on, go for opportunities where you see them. Maybe you just need to be better educated. Maybe you need to be more focused or have a more specific sort of niche in your field that you can chase after, which is fair, or just throw out your degree and do something else completely different, which is what I did.
Silvan (22:01)
Yeah,
I mean, you're a lot more eloquent than I am because I was just going to say marry rich, which is kind of what he's kind of doing up until chapter 15. Like he keeps talking about his multimillionaire boyfriend. Like I would not stop him.
Declan (22:16)
I would be an amazing stay at home husband. I really would like I I Will have the housework done within an hour and a half Takes my boyfriend like six hours and I'll come home and there's still be stuff that's not done. I I will be a very efficient house husband. I think
Silvan (22:21)
All right, I'll do.
to pilates every day, you know, it's not a bad life.
Declan (22:42)
no, no, I now have five hours of my day to fill after I've done literally every task to do. ⁓ Awful. Anyway, I don't think that's happening at times like this.
Silvan (22:53)
and you talk about Kip's sort of history degree and his background and in the book it alludes that Kip's father is of the same sort of background or he studied the same thing. It's not, they don't nail it completely, but I feel like there's a shared common interest there between him and his father.
Declan (23:09)
Mm-hmm.
Silvan (23:13)
And so I wonder if there is sort of this sort of bridging of these two characters because of that. And that's why his father gets in, because we don't know what his dad does in the TV show. But speaking of Kip's father, we get the introduction Kip has a mother and a sister. Who knew?
Declan (23:13)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kip has a much wider family circle in the book, which sort of works for showing how different he is to Scott in terms of what he has.
When you compare Kip's dad from the book to the TV show, I much prefer the dad in the TV show. I think there's more of a warmth. There's more of an active role in Kip's life. The dad is sort of like a reoccurring background character in the book. And also he has extended family as well. He has a mother, he has a sister.
⁓ and he also seems to have a wider circle of friends so he has a much more active social life than perhaps Scott does. But also did you notice that Scott has more people in his life in the book than in the show?
Silvan (24:28)
He does, he has a lot more hockey people around.
Declan (24:31)
Yeah, and they're actual friends. Like you get the sense that they're proper friends. And Scott talks about his mother as well. So he does like he had a mother who passed away whenever he was a teenager. Whereas in the show, it's very much implied that Scott has sort of nearly always been an orphan. Or am I wrong in that? ⁓
Silvan (24:34)
Yes.
I
think, yeah, you're right. think his parents died in the TV show when he was young. I can't remember exactly what age, but it's very young.
Declan (25:02)
Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, in both cases, he's still orphaned and that still matters. But I think in the show, his loneliness is much more of a pressing issue. So it is is sort of radical action towards kept this sort of and still love that he has for Kip is a lot more believable in that sense, because he's so isolated that now he's found someone that he connects with. He's like
clinging to the connection. He's like anxious attachment like, my God, have, I can't let you go. Like I'm overlooking all our issues because I need to have you. And in the book, that's not very present. He is over people.
Silvan (25:50)
He feels more balanced in the book in that way. And we also get a bit of backstory whereby we learn that Scott was raised by his mom, so single parent family. And then when she died, that's when he was quite literally orphaned. ⁓ And so it's interesting to hear a bit more of that story for Scott
It amplifies it in a way, you know, where he's receiving love from somebody he's going to grab onto and he's going to hold onto it for literal dear life.
Declan (26:24)
Yeah. So I think it also helps with the timeline of their relationship as well.
So in the show. Did you feel like they had like months together?
Silvan (26:38)
Yeah, I would say so. felt like a ⁓ longer period of time in which they met and they actually, know, to the gala scene, to them hooking up, to them then repeatedly hooking up. Whereas in the book, at least up until what I've read, Kip says it's been weeks. It's only been weeks when he's talking to Elena. And I'm like, wait a minute, like they are acting.
Declan (27:01)
Yeah.
Silvan (27:06)
like two fools in love. They are acting like they're 12 years old and they've never had a boyfriend and this is their first boyfriend who they're saying, I love you too and jumping into bed together, you know, there's no, there's no judgment there, but they are very much. And one of the notes that I actually wrote in my margins was, is this love or lust?
Declan (27:29)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a thing. So there's lots of things going on here. I just want to pick some of it apart. First of all, this is a very common sort of, I'm always going to call it a trope. And I'm in romance where, and probably just general romance as well, where people are confessing love to each other after knowing each other for days. If you're lucky, weeks. I find this a personal pet peeve. I don't like this.
To form proper emotional connection, takes longer than that typically. Obviously you have your exceptions of sort of love at first sight and you have that, but if it's not executed in a way that is sort of believable, you you can't really enjoy that sort of trope. But in general, my God, if you're an MM romance writer, just extend it out. Just make a few more weeks pass.
just throw a month in there. It's OK. All you need to do is literally write and a month later and you have a bit more of a believable time scale for a relationship that I can buy into. ⁓ It's not you don't need to squeeze it all under like a few days. Please don't do that. ⁓ But if you consider the fact that in the book, they're a lot younger and this is Scott's first relationship.
This is his first same sex relationship that he's ever had. So he is going to behave like a teenager because he has no prior experience whatsoever. And that I find is more believable in the book that perhaps it is in the show where he is a mature man who he might never have had a relationship. That's true. Still true in the show as well. But because you can visually see that he is a much older, mature person.
And you get the sense he's also emotionally more mature. ⁓ You struggle with the way that he behaves towards Kip because you're like, can I really justify this? Whereas in the book, it's a lot more believable.
Silvan (29:36)
Yeah. And when we had Eliza on the podcast a few sessions ago, you know, she talked about Scott being, you know, a believable love bomber. And now that I've read it, it makes sense. He love bombs kids.
Declan (29:46)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, 100%. And he's not really doing it intentionally. He just doesn't understand that it's not appropriate. And I think you'll find now as you continue on in the book that this is going to become like a sticking point with them because Kip's not stupid. he's not. Kip is. He's enjoying the ride and he is in love. ⁓ But he's also self aware of how easily Scott ⁓
gives him things that he would never be able to achieve within, like if Kip spent a year working and saving and doing nothing else, he might be able to afford one of Scott's suits. Whereas Scott just gives it away for free, offers to buy him a new one, new designer suit, which will cost Kip thousands and thousands of dollars and endless months of work and time. And Scott gives it so freely, like it's nothing.
and to Scott it isn't, to Scott it is nothing but he, this is the first relationship so he didn't understand.
Silvan (31:03)
And I agree and to Kip's credit, when Scott does offer him the suit in the book, he says, I'll buy you a new suit. And Kip's like, no, like absolutely not. He refuses a lot of things that Scott offers initially, at least up until what I've read. And what then their compromise is, well, he's like, well, take what I might and have it tailored. And I think that was a good compromise. Whereas when
Scott in the TV show just gives him what looks like a very new suit in the wardrobe. That gave me, I had to recoil from that. was like, you know, for my man or something like that. And then he had an S. I was like, one, you just bought him a designer suit, tux or whatever. Two, the symbolism of that tux being in the closet.
Declan (31:36)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
in the closet
is, ⁓ that's excellent visual storytelling. Absolutely excellent. Yeah, fantastic. That's honestly an advantage of TV as well as you can do visual storytelling. You don't need to say it in the book and you can sort of let the audience come to their own conclusions. But yeah, such a fantastic contrast. But you're right. The fact that Kip does refuse them.
is meaningful for his character. Kipp wants to earn what he gets. I think because he's put so much time and effort into it, the idea that Scott is coming in and just making all that seem pointless and worthless, completely unintentionally of course, but he's almost devaluing his work and what he's done in his efforts. ⁓
in a way that you would struggle to articulate for Kip because Scott.
very rich and he has been very rich for a long time probably since he was a professional player he's always been sort of work he's always done professional sports so from like the age of 18 Scott has had a lot of money though the book does make it clear that Scott comes from a poor background so he understands sort of what Kip is going through in the sense that how hard it is to not have certain things and how difficult it is to
struggle for something like that but he doesn't seem to understand that just handing it to somebody that's already working for it devalues what they're doing and I think that's an interesting little sort of money conflict between the two.
Silvan (33:44)
Yeah, and as you were talking, two things came to me. So the first one was there's a part very early on in the book where Scott thinks, what would it be like for Kip to just stay at home all day? And I was like, ⁓ and I put wag in, in, in, sorry, right? Like I wrote wag in big letters, question mark. So Scott has this fantasy of having
Declan (34:01)
Wide.
Silvan (34:10)
a stay at home husband in a way. I know we joked about it before, but I would never do that. It's a fantasy. so Scott almost has this illusion of he wants Kip to be there all the time, to be at his apartment. And we see this in the TV show. And that's what irked me in the TV show. Now, when it came into the book, it immediately took me back to the TV show. And I was like, this doesn't sit well with me.
And so there's all of that. But secondly, there's a point where they've hooked up, I think it's early in the morning, Scott wants to have sex again, and he's like, calling sick from work and Kip's like, can't. And yes, Kip's job may be not as important as Scott is. He's not responsible for a whole team, a whole industry, perhaps.
Declan (34:57)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Silvan (35:00)
But Kip's like, can't call in sick. And he's like, we'll just go in late then. And he's like, no. And so I really respected Kip for really standing those boundaries and holding onto those because how, it's very easy. know, you're in the morning, it's the morning, you're cuddling, you're like, ⁓ I don't want to go to work, don't go to work. And it's very easy to say, yeah, I won't go in because you want me to stay in. you're, and Kip, this is where Kip again holds his own. He's like,
Declan (35:10)
Yeah.
Silvan (35:30)
Well, you're going to practice later. What am I going to do?
Declan (35:32)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I can definitely appreciate Kip sort of resilience and resisting sort of scots. Very, very easy. what's the sort of word I'm looking for? He's making things very easy for Kip to give into. Like he could very easily give into his life and
live as a sort of shadow of himself and have all these privileges and all this money and basically the freedom to sort of do whatever he wants as long as it's not the whoops got in public. Which is incredibly sad because Scott is identifying that he wants Kip there. He knows he likes having them there. But for Kip, he's like,
I don't know, there's something in Kip where he wants to be someone, he wants to achieve something, he wants to have a sense of purpose and it needs to be beyond just something to Scott. He needs to be his own individual with his own ambitions and his own dreams and his own pursuits. know rich people love to tell poor people that money does not buy happiness. ⁓ Nonsense.
Well, it's not complete nonsense if I'm trying to say it buys you the freedom to do what you want. But when you have that freedom, sometimes if you don't find a purpose, it will make you deeply unhappy. ⁓ So when you have the freedom to do anything, it's important what you decide to do with that time. ⁓ I think Kip is sort of looking at that in a sense. It's like I could have all my problems solved, but what would I do?
Who would I be? What is my purpose? What's my ambition? Like, what's going to be my drive then if I just let Scott buy my life out, right? Like, it's not, it wouldn't be a fulfilling life for either of them in the long run. And it's waiting for Kip to sort of have that realization because he's, he's automatically doing this stuff. I don't think he's aware of it. I think it's subconscious what he's doing.
Silvan (37:51)
I agree because it's so easy to get swept up in the romance of it all. It's so easy to make yourself available, you know, to Scott's schedule because arguably he's the one who has a more regimented schedule because he travels and he plays. And so keeping yourself available or making sure you have a shift on the day that Scott has a game. So Scott has a smoothie. It's much easier to mold yourself around somebody else.
Declan (38:17)
Yeah, exactly. ⁓ I think because Kip is so enamored with him that he is definitely the good looks, the money and the obviously personality and the attraction. Their winnings got a lot of leeway here with Kip. Kip is definitely compromising a lot more than he probably would for other people because it is Scott. ⁓ But it's where's the limit?
that because there is one. So as the book goes on, think you'll find that you're going to start to have some of those sort of speed bumps at that point. But yeah, now they're dynamic, it's interesting at this point in the book and you can sort of see Kip pushing back a little bit.
Silvan (39:07)
Yeah, definitely. And speaking of pushing back, I want to go into maybe some of the supporting characters like Elena, for example. What was your impression of Elena from the book versus the TV show?
Declan (39:15)
No.
TV show is she's a much more complete character. think in the book she is, ⁓
important influence in Kip's life but she is not actively sort of in the story. In the TV show she plays a much more important role. ⁓ She is the catalyst for the comp for forcing the two of them to confront what they're not dealing with. She's a vital part of that plot. In the book I feel like if you took Elena out of it
Kip would still be making the same decisions. Whereas in the TV show, it feels like she pushes him to reflect properly. In the book, I don't get that as much, so I don't. I do like her role in the book. I like the dynamic that they have that they grew up when they were kids and that they have this really close relationship. I like the idea as well that they would definitely be dating each other if Kip was straight.
because they just like each other that much, unfortunately the stars didn't align. ⁓ So yeah, I do like their dynamic. I like the friendship. do feel like she's an important part of Kip's life, but I feel she is better utilized and she's better fully realized in the TV show.
Silvan (40:49)
I agree. And it just goes to show how you can adapt a character from a written novel and add layers to that character. So Elena in the TV show is much more of a force. It forces these two characters to come to a realization. You know, the whole speech about you deserve sunshine and so does he. Like that is just pure
Declan (41:16)
you
Silvan (41:18)
gold, but you wouldn't have that dialogue if you didn't have a well-written and forced character in the book. And so I can see how Jacob Tierney sort of taken elements and just tweaked it and tweaked it for a good cause to push the story along. They're not just characters for the sake of having characters, they're characters with a purpose.
Declan (41:26)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Silvan (41:45)
And that
sounds like the Miss World trope, like beauty with a purpose, but regardless.
Declan (41:51)
But I think that's part of his strategy for ⁓ adapting the book is he is taking elements of characters who he's not going to include and putting them all into the one character so that you have the efficiency of basically having more fully realized people because he has a tighter schedule than Rachel Reed does. She can have the more casual characters, the ones that come in and out, play a massive role. ⁓
but are just part of the background, a part of the world building, they are. Whereas Jacob Tierney doesn't have the time for that. He has a very tight schedule, especially for these two, because they're putting an entire book into one episode and, well, one episode and a tiny bit of another one. Whereas with the whole Heat at Rivalry book, he has like whole five episodes to tell that story. So he is working with
a very tight schedule and he's trying to make characters much more efficient. So they are. Because I'm pretty sure after it's after this in the TV show, like after the events you read up to, where they go to the sort of ball or whatever it is, the event. Yeah, the gala, they have their fight right after that. So they do. Whereas I'm telling you now that in the book that doesn't happen.
Silvan (43:03)
The Gala.
conflict.
Declan (43:14)
That's not the complex, so it's not. I don't think I got to spoil her.
Silvan (43:18)
No,
in fact, no, it's not. I don't think so. In fact, what you do is you get the opposite in the book. In chapter 15, they tell each other that they love each other for the first time. So you get the opposite actually happening.
Declan (43:29)
Yeah, yeah. It
brings them closer and Elena in the book doesn't seem to be as challenging of Scott Iver, so isn't, ⁓ which I think is worthy of note, especially because she is so confronting in the TV show. More appropriately so. I think Elena is the better friend in the
TV show, whereas in the book she's sort of playing along with this farce and it is a farce at this point. he's there at this party for him. He wants to be there with him. And they can't and Scott is thinking this is okay. And it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous of what is going on at this point. He's effectively closeted Kip again. And it's, it's a massive issue. It's a huge sticking point. And
the TV show, Elaine seems to grab on to how important this actually is, but this is not good guys. You need to figure this out now because if you don't, you're just going to hurt yourselves. And the book, there's, there's, there is an element of that, but it's definitely not as direct and definitely not as urgent.
Silvan (44:34)
Thank
Yeah. And speaking to that point, you know, they only had six episodes in total and one of which was predominantly Kipp and Scott's storyline. I wonder how that might have looked if they had like a 22 or 24 episode season, for example, and how much they would have padded it out and made that feel longer or, you know, filled it out a little bit more. So in a way, I feel like having those six episodes really truncated all the filler out.
Declan (44:55)
Thank you.
Yeah
Yeah, 100%. It trimmed the fat to like the extreme degree. And I think that works with this book. This book simply wouldn't work, even if it was six episodes, it would not work as a translation. There is just not enough in it. Which. Maybe we'll get onto some criticisms of this book. There is a lot of time in this book spent on sex.
between Kip and Scott ⁓ to the point where it gets boring. And I don't know if you agree with that. What's your thoughts?
Silvan (45:57)
Mm, we're finally getting to what everyone really wants to hear, right? So, the sex in the book. Now, granted, I have read some ⁓ M.M. sort of novels before. I'm not quite as prolific as you, but...
The sex in certain scenes in the book served to build up the tension. And you could see that in the way they layered it and the way Rachel layers it. There is a point in the book where all they're doing is having sex. And I appreciate it, but at a certain point it didn't do very much for me.
Declan (46:25)
Mm-hmm.
Thanks
Silvan (46:43)
To me, it almost didn't feel like it pushed the story.
Declan (46:48)
Yes. And my theory is, is because this is one of her earlier books. And I think the initial instinct for a lot of MN romance writers, especially new ones, is to include as much spice as you possibly can. Because when they're reading it, that's like, love those parts. They absolutely love it. So if I love that that much, then the more I put into my book, the better it's going to be. But that's not true. The reality is that it's a storytelling tool. It's there to
further character, further plot, it's there to serve a purpose. Sometimes it's there to demonstrate ⁓ a moment of growth or a moment of change, ⁓ or it's there to facilitate some event that's going to happen. ⁓ In this book, it's not doing that, not past their first couple of interactions with one another. ⁓ And I think that can really affect the pacing of this book.
⁓ at times it can feel slow and it can feel long and it's not, it's not a long book at all. It's quite short, but because there's nothing really happening, nothing of actual value or consequences happening. ⁓ it feels superfluous. It's feels a bit pointless. ⁓ and so you don't get the satisfaction from reading it because there's no buildup. There's no.
there's none earned around it. ⁓ It's just sort of there for the sake of being there. ⁓ And I think that's just like an early fumble of, you know, a relatively new M.M. Rowlman's writer, ⁓ which Rachel Reed would have been at at this point writing this book. So that's my own personal belief. I believe Spice is great when it serves a purpose and when it's sort of emotionally driven. ⁓ I think you get the more satisfying sort of
scenes that way. Obviously build up in anticipation, all that's important but ultimately it needs to serve a purpose within the story.
Silvan (48:54)
Yeah, I can hear where you're coming from. Like I haven't read a lot of sex scenes in M &M romances. And so I appreciated reading this, but I also, reading it, thought it's quite tame. It's quite vanilla. And I don't know whether maybe I had expectations of it being really saucy, really extreme. And maybe that does happen in other books or...
you know, with other authors or maybe that's just the impression I got from like lots of our viewers giving us sort of feedback on like the AO3 universe. But I thought I could picture everything that they were doing and it felt. Yeah, like. I can see that happening.
Declan (49:28)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, it's I think because they're both quite vanilla characters to begin with like Scott and Kip are not like overly sexually adventurous people. They won't come across that way anyway. So I think it's actually true to their characters that their sex is just very, it's just sex. It's good. It has emotional meaning to them, but it's not like whips and chains and ⁓ Rihanna, S Like it's not
nothing like that. But it's still quite ⁓ believable within the context of relationship. ⁓ If you are looking for really intense sort of sex scenes, have book recommendations for that if you want. ⁓ But I don't find Rachel Reed dolls that style very often. ⁓ More so with Ilya and Shane, think you find stuff like that. But
In general, don't think she's that kind of writer. don't think her sex scenes in her books aren't very intense. They don't come across very intense. There are offers like Naila Kaye will be one where her sex scenes are like, ⁓ whoa, wow, okay, we're kicked into high gear here. She would be one that would be quite like that. ⁓ But Rachel Reed, not so much. Not so much, I don't think.
Silvan (51:02)
And one thing, as you were talking, I was reminded of when I was reading the book was, and again, I'm going to be a little crude, so if you're sensitive, forward the next 30 seconds. there's one point. Firstly, can I say Scott in the book, Bottoms First.
Declan (51:12)
Hehehe.
Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, I think because people have it in their head that the bigger, stronger, more muscle, athletic guy is always the top. But Scott is also the more emotionally fragile and inexperienced and naive of the two. So in an emotional sense, it definitely does sort of, I don't know, it sort of lends itself to the idea that he would be the bottom.
Silvan (51:26)
I thought that was really interesting.
Declan (51:51)
⁓ And as he gains more experience and more confidence in what he's doing, he's more likely to top. Yeah, I think that was an interesting choice. think there's a bit of characterization in that. Yeah.
Silvan (52:03)
Whereas in the TV show, he's very much, he tops first. And I think they are both first in the TV show and they both are first in the book as well. But also there was one point where I did chuckle to myself where Kip is like, or one of the characters is like, go harder or something. I'm like, this is the first time you've bottomed in months. There is no way in hell you're telling someone to go hard right from the beginning.
Declan (52:06)
Yeah.
Silvan (52:30)
I'm sorry, no way is that happening. Like, I don't care how much lube you're using.
Declan (52:35)
Who knows? For all we know he had been preparing himself. ⁓ Which he might have done, you never know. ⁓ No, I do take your point though. there's, I think inevitably you're going to have little moments of that whenever you have ⁓ a sort of female writer writing MM romance. Sometimes they're just going to get some things a little wrong. I actually find most of them are like very accurate.
Silvan (52:43)
Maybe.
Declan (53:05)
for people who've never partaken. But ⁓ you do find that there are moments when it's like, don't see that, I don't see that, no. I don't understand that position that you got them into that doesn't seem quite realistic.
Silvan (53:23)
Yeah, exactly. And there was one point in one of the sex scenes again in the first half of Game Changer where Scott wants Kip to perform for him. And it took me to the hotel scene in the TV show with Ilya and Shane where, and it felt almost like a mirrored scene just with different characters. So in the TV show you have Ilya sitting on the chair and Shane fingering himself,
Declan (53:40)
Yeah.
Silvan (53:51)
whereas in the book you have Scott watching Kip masturbate and touch himself. And I thought, I wondered if that was intentional to pull it out and put it in a different scene in the TV show. And I thought that was quite...
Declan (54:02)
Hmm.
Silvan (54:05)
I quite like the use of that.
Declan (54:07)
Yeah, I think in the book, Heed of Rivalry book, there's also a similar scene to that. So I get why your mind went there. think. For Rachel Reed. You'll find a lot of M.M. romance operas will build up what characters are going to do in terms of sex throughout the book. So they'll start off with like hand jobs and then it'll move on to blow jobs and then it'll
move on to sort of voyeuristic sort of things sexting each other and then you get proper sex and then you're swapping positions and there's like a progression typically that you'll see in MN romance whenever it comes to like sex and I think she follows a certain formula so she does and I think you'll notice that she does it with the other characters as well as we're moving throughout the series but yeah I didn't really think about it now until you sort of made me think about it but yeah there's definitely a formula.
She has a formula for how she progresses sex in her books. ⁓ nearly every MN romance offered dolls. ⁓ Yeah, interesting.
Silvan (55:18)
Yeah, it is interesting because, there seems to, and to Rachel's credit, there seems to in one of the scenes where, and I can't remember if it's Scott giving Kip a blowjob or the other way around, I think it is Scott giving Kip a blowjob where there's this hurriedness and they allude to when Scott might've done this before, it might've been like, you know, when he's in Toro Molino, so in Ibiza or wherever, wherever he's traveling in summer.
Declan (55:44)
Yeah.
Silvan (55:46)
And there's this rush to it. And there's this moment where they both sort of attune to each other and they slow it down. And I thought that was a really, a really nice moment because how often when you're hooking up with someone, is it sort of this rush and often let's do this as quick as possible sometimes and to acknowledge that and then slow it down because now you get this emotional attachment. You get this emotional layering.
Declan (56:07)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Silvan (56:16)
And it's like, no, no, we're in your apartment. We don't have to rush this.
Declan (56:19)
Yeah, we can take our time with it. don't need to. You're not trying to get rid of me as quick as you can so that you can move on with your life. It's like, no, we're enjoying each other's company. We're enjoying being together. We're getting satisfaction out of that. It's not just about getting off as quick as you can. It's not just about instant release. It's about the build up. It's about the emotional connection. It's being with someone that you enjoy being around. So there's less urgency needed to
Basically be with each other in a sense. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely feel that yeah
Silvan (56:54)
Yeah.
And I wonder if that comes across in Rachel's storytelling and writing, at least in this book. We've got these two characters. We don't have to rush it. There's lots that we can talk about and maybe there's a nice symbolism there.
Declan (57:05)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I think that is definitely intentional anyway. I think that's slowing it down. The fact that Scott is only ever doing hookups and he can only do it like when he's far away in foreign countries and no one knows who hockey players actually are. that, know, taking the time to land a bit of thought to that is clever story writing. I think she really picked up on something that's very important there. And I did really enjoy that element of it.
I thought it was a nice little detail that she included. ⁓ But yeah, I think so far.
When comparing the book to the show, there are elements of the book which are really strong. I feel like maybe the show didn't have time to sort of delve into because they condensed it so tightly. ⁓ But there are definitely elements then of the book that the show elevates and turns it into something much more meaningful. ⁓ In terms of sort of things that you would perhaps
like to have seen differently in the book? Do you have any thoughts?
Silvan (58:24)
That's tricky because I'm only halfway through and in my head I'm really trying to put the TV show to one side. It's really hard to do that. And I'm almost trying to be reintroduced to these characters as if I didn't know who they already were. And actually that's something I wanted to ask you because I'm coming to this from a very much TV lens. And so I want to know what
Declan (58:27)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Silvan (58:51)
it was like for you to have read this without a preconceived image or storyline or prior knowledge. What was that like for you?
Declan (59:01)
So basically, just as I read it as a book, I actually didn't love this book. I wasn't in love with it at all. I think there are better versions of this. So there are by other authors, which is not to say that Rachel Reed is a bad writer. I don't think she is. But there are elements of this book that don't work for me. ⁓ Perhaps we'll get more into that whenever you finished it.
particularly it was actually Kip's character I had a lot of gripe with. ⁓ I felt he was too passive. He was too easily led. He didn't stand up for himself. He had a lot of internal complaints rather than voicing them out loud and a lot of the sort of refusal to communicate trope. And I don't like that. I don't think that's what works for me. But ⁓
Whenever I reread this, had a new appreciation for it and a new appreciation for certain elements that Rachel Reed writes into that really, really make it work. It's hard to say because you've not finished the book, so I'm going to save a lot of that for them. ⁓ But as for now, yeah, I like the book. I wasn't a little bit. I thought it was competently written, but that it had issues and flaws.
And that if I was to give the option to reread it, would I? No, not necessarily. Now, obviously, because the show is coming, I've changed my chin on that. ⁓ But now that I've reread it again, would I reread it for time? ⁓ Probably not. ⁓ Probably not. No. I think it does what it does pretty well. But for me, I've read other books that are very similar, but are better.
And that sort of sticks with me a bit.
Silvan (1:01:03)
Yeah, I can see that. Definitely can see that. Because for me coming into this and we were having a chat just generally and you're asking me what my thoughts about the book were. And I was kind of on the fence and I saw you smile and I was like, it's okay. Like I like it because I like the TV show. I don't know if I would have loved it straight away had I not seen the TV show and just read this on its own. And I know you gave this like a three out of five stars.
Declan (1:01:15)
Mmm.
Silvan (1:01:32)
you back in the day when you first read it.
and I will say that ⁓ Declan is very patient with me because I'm a very slow reader and I keep getting nudges from Declan, which I appreciate by the way, but I am a naturally slow reader because I'm reading, you know, journal articles on top of everything else. ⁓ And it's, it's, and I'm going to get roasted, but it's taken me almost two years to finish Song of Achilles. I know, I know. ⁓ I know sacrilegious.
Declan (1:01:49)
Yeah.
Silvan (1:02:03)
But speaking of the book club, please do join us. I think we're at Heated Rivalry currently. So if you are reading it for the first time or you're rereading it, feel free to join us. There are notes and thoughts that people have contributed to and I was reading them the other day and ⁓ my gosh, like some of the comments are so insightful and things that I haven't thought about. So it's been so lovely to see this community grow.
Declan (1:02:28)
Yeah.
Silvan (1:02:32)
If you haven't joined us already and you're thinking about it, just join search long game pod on Fable or use the link in the description that I'll put down below.
Declan (1:02:42)
Yeah, definitely do and feel free to interact. Typically what happens is we'll open a discussion at 6 p.m. on a Sunday, 6 p.m. GMT. that's sort of London, Lisbon sort of center time. And then we'll just allow people to chat about the first half of the book and then we'll give people another week then to finish the other half of the book. So that's sort of the structure that we're going with here. But
It's really fun. People are so, so ⁓ creative in the way in which they visualise the book and visualise the ideas of it and the characters and come up with really clever ideas behind it. ⁓ Really insightful, really insightful stuff. And I've had such a fun time sort of reading comments. I'm a lurker, by the way. You might think I'm not interacting, but I'm lurking. I'm lurking in the background. reading all your comments, but...
Yeah, definitely try it out. It's all in fable and yeah, definitely give it a try. It's great.
Silvan (1:03:45)
Yeah. And so this was part one of our game changes episode. So in the next episode, I will have read the whole book finally, and we'll go on to the second half of the book and maybe some of the bigger themes that emerge from it.
Declan (1:04:01)
Mm hmm. Yes, that sounds good. But for now, that's us. I hope you enjoyed the episode. I know a lot of you are waiting to sort of hear our thought when comparing the book to the TV show, and we're excited to now be able to do that. ⁓ If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you leave a comment, share it. Don't be afraid to join the fable as well. Keep an eye out on TikTok for some of our clips and things like that there.
⁓ And yeah, like subscribe wherever you are and just enjoy for more content. We'll be bringing out part two next week