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Every ambitious EMEA, APAC, and LATAM startup that’s positioned to disrupt an industry and become the next big thing knows that entering the American market needs to be on their roadmap.
American startups received 5x more venture capital funding in 2023 alone, which means that your best shot at a successful IPO or a lucrative exit lies across the Atlantic.
Welcome to Selling America - the podcast where we sit with business owners and executives worldwide to uncover their journeys into the US market.
Join Sergey Olexa, Co-Founder at Leadium, as he dives into their strategies, challenges and successes in navigating one of the most dynamic business landscapes.
Whether you’re on the cusp of launching your US expansion or planning it for the distant future, this podcast will give you actionable, timeless insights from those who have already made it happen.
Share the show and leave us a review - it truly helps the podcast grow!
[00:00:00] Welcome everyone to brand new episode of selling America, the podcast, where we sit down with business owners and executives from across the globe to uncover their journeys into the U S market. Join us as we dive deep into their strategies, challenges, and successes in navigating one of the most. Dynamic business landscapes.
[00:00:23] Today, I'm thrilled to welcome Felix Scherl, the founder and CEO of Turbo, a cutting edge website personalization platform based in Germany. Felix, it's an absolute pleasure to have you today with us. So likewise, many thanks for hosting me today. I'm pleasured taking part in your podcast and hopefully it can give the one or other insight or interesting fact about what our training was looking like so far and how we started with the U S market and.
[00:00:51] What we've seen there and probably also the differences compared to Europe. So many thanks for hosting me. Yeah, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. Let's start at the very beginning, [00:01:00] Felix could you share with us your personal journey and the pivotal moments that led you to creating Turbo and what was your first market, where did you start selling that's I'm always intrigued to hear this from founders directly so probably give you a little bit of background on myself, how I'm feeling.
[00:01:18] I'm founder and CEO of Turbo right now. I've been ever in the e commerce space ever since 2000 and born and raised in Nuremberg, which is a smaller city, which is a hundred miles north of Munich, Germany. Started their confirmation technology. So I'm tech guy, but I also have a I don't know the business right now, but it started with a program and all this stuff started my professional career at a smaller firm called Bangora.
[00:01:39] Back in the days in 2000 as a lead developer, mainly what we did is the whole white label shopping portal. So shopping. yahoo, shopping. like us, this stuff where he has this price comparison part was already quite deep in the ballpark of search, but also recommendations. We did a lot with. How distance between product is [00:02:00] calculated.
[00:02:00] I've did this for six year and grew in the lead in, in had great grew and grew into a role, having my own team and mainly responsible for the bigger portals we hosted there. After I joined that smaller firm for two years, which was a B2C auction platform to be transparent as some sort of career pathing after I've seen six years on the B2B side which was also great to see how B2C businesses rather than B2B businesses.
[00:02:25] After this, I was, and this will lead me also to why I found Turbo and why I thought this is valuable for the customers we do have. So after a small firm, I was working in a company called Intelliat Intelliat back then, also Munich, Germany. It was about multi channel tracking, bit management, RTP. So everything about how to bring users to the website and what I've seen there as as my role as CIO, and I was mainly responsible for the part of multi channel tracking and RTP.
[00:02:55] I've seen how much money is spent on a daily basis, really bring users to the website, how much [00:03:00] money the advertises in Google, Facebook, retail remarketing campaigns whatsoever, but I've also, what I've seen there is that all the users coming to the website were treated the same way. So if I have two users coming through the same app the one is already a loyal customer buying their 10 times.
[00:03:17] And the other one is a brand new user. We'll have the same experience. So both clean the same website with the same content. They see everything the same. And I've seen, Hey, the shops that are advertised, they have that many of Sierra first part of data. Why they don't treat those users differently based on their behavior, based on the history, based on the channel, which are entering based fully on the geolocation they are at or the weather conditions they're in.
[00:03:41] So I thought I was talking a lot to our clients back then and saying, Hey, why don't they treat us differently? Do there something to increase the user experience for those folks, making them having a better, just better experience on the website. And the most common answer they said is they would like doing something like that, but are always limited by the resources they have, either it's the internal [00:04:00] resources in the marketing or e commerce department, or most likely limited resource in a tech team.
[00:04:06] Because the tech team is mainly focused on keeping stability of the website, building new features in the website, but they're not as agile putting some marketing campaigns out there, doing some ABE testing. So that's why you need a tool for this. And that was my wish in giving, creating a SaaS solution, helping on the one inside the e com and marketing team being agile, fulfilling their dreams on the website.
[00:04:27] So basically. Literally have the freedom to operate on the website to ultimately give each and every user on the website a better experience in regards of recommendations, better content, the right content, the right moment, or probably also give them a voucher when needed, if they're undecided or something like that.
[00:04:43] So that was my vision about when founding firm back in late 2013 with some POC phase afterwards and had a really go to market 2015 just in Germany. So we started off in Germany, was off in Germany. I had my whole network. I had my connections, I knew a lot of agencies and [00:05:00] and client to really, and they also helped us develop the product where we are right now combining all those features together in regards of AP testing recommendations.
[00:05:09] Content, dynamic content, segmentation, and targeting everything on the website, but also leading to better recognition within emails. For example, we grew there as Mola firm grew solid year over year, became market leaders after a couple of years and remaining has real positive. And. Then also we had one, we said, Hey, what to do next in regards of features, Chia expansion, go to markets we ever thought about.
[00:05:36] So at least I always thought about North America because the market is just huge. And it's always slightly advanced of Germany and Europe still. So you still have some new mindsets here. You have some new features you want to implement. And, but my vision was always going, having a go to market in North America.
[00:05:50] And parallel, we also thought expanding across Europe. Which we actually tried doing in 2020, which was not too easy in regards of COVID. We had a big initiative [00:06:00] going on in 2020 when we said, Hey, we want to start in Europe, expanding Europe, but also having built a market in North America, which was then everything delayed due to COVID which was happening there.
[00:06:10] And right now we are at SAGE. We have still our market in Germany. So basically a DAF region, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, but also have some clients across Europe. But are currently focusing on the go to market in North America, which we started last year shop type in Vegas. So we don't get that view at a shop top Vegas 2023 and doing steps a little bit bigger than baby steps.
[00:06:33] We're doing steps. It's also getting the mindset in here. What we have to change, how we have to adapt, how the way of selling is here. That's basically a bootstrap go to market to really see what we need, where we need to invest money. And that's where we are right now. And I'm the one traveling in between states.
[00:06:49] I'm basically being a month in North America, being a month in Germany. It's okay. It's not too much traveling because you're staying at one, one place or more than a month usually. [00:07:00] So it's not like traveling on a weekly basis, but yeah, that long story short, that's me, that's Furbo and that's where we're at right now.
[00:07:06] That's awesome. That's awesome. Before we expand the conversation to the U S market I want to take a step back a little bit and ask you about your first client. How did you acquire it? Did you just You know, pull up your phone book and okay, I have some phone numbers that I need to dial and it basically leveraged your network or did you do any email prospecting, any sort of strategic selling or it was like let me just call someone and see if they will, if they are willing to spend some money with my company.
[00:07:39] So I used to be a tech guy, I'm still some sort of tech guy. I'm not good at cold calling, totally not. That's nothing where if you're comfortable. So where I started off is in the beginning, I utilize my network. Back in Italia, I had really good network in regards to agencies, most likely performance agencies.
[00:07:57] So these agencies, which are doing the PPC campaigns, [00:08:00] remarketing campaigns. And this was my network, which I basically call all the people. And you want to say, Hey, is there a fit for turbo getting in there? But performance agents actually were not too valuable in the beginning for us to be transparent because they were just focusing on, on, on their PPC campaigns, not really what's happening on the website.
[00:08:19] So the first client actually came through an agency from my old context that's a bigger agency in Stuttgart in Germany. And I called them, explained the whole idea. They liked it. The data, they probably do have a client which could be of interest for us. And also I need to say there in the beginning, I thought it would be like our perfect ICP or perfect shop profile.
[00:08:41] We have would be somewhere in the e commerce space, most likely fashion, most likely fast selling goods, like convenient shoes, whatever. Not the long tail thing, like for example, travel is like long tail, where you have long decision cycles, furnishers and stuff like that. So in the beginning it was about [00:09:00] personalizing like the first, second, third, fourth visit you have there and try to get the people into the selling mode, upselling, stuff like that.
[00:09:10] So the first client actually we had was a travel client and I was happy to have them, yeah, but on the other hand side, I thought, okay, travel, that's, it's not fast selling, it's long decision cycles. What to do there? But it turned out brilliantly. So the bottom line there was that was good for us for the development of the product we have that I thought, Hey, deal with also this long cycle, long sales cycles you have, for example, traveled because it's perfect if the user comes to travel, the perfect example there is and I will answer a question how to further sales in regards of crawling.
[00:09:44] But what I've seen there is I always thought, yeah, somebody is coming to the website, give them some offers, promotional probably, and turn them into buying mode instantly. But what I've seen with travel is, so if somebody's booking summer occasion or something, they're coming to the website and the first thing they're [00:10:00] doing is.
[00:10:01] They, how many adults are traveling, how many children are traveling and the rough destination where you're going at. So if there's just one adult, most likely it's a single. If there are two, most likely it's a couple and if it's two plus child, children, it's a family. And they a hundred percent would get back to the website because they're checking petters and all this stuff.
[00:10:19] But if you greet them when they're coming back and say, Hey, here's the best family vacation. Just changing headlines or something. The foreign looked for two adults, one kid. Summer vacation, just greeting them in a better way. And they're totally not annoyed. It's unspammy. It's nothing to deal with like upside, but they're just happy.
[00:10:37] Okay. There's family cruise, family holidays. And then I also realized how valuable can be and is personalization, just those tweaking headlines, probably changing some content, which made a lot for our development back to a first in regards of selling. So as things that I probably can pitch my product, but I'm not the sales or BDR guy, totally not.
[00:10:57] And. So I utilize my [00:11:00] network heavily in the beginning. Yes, I did some emails by far, not as precise as we do it right now. Which didn't work out too well. So soon after I hired a AAE, which I knew back from my old firm, which I knew he's great. He has this small little black book where you just have four numbers over four numbers.
[00:11:21] And it was back in 2015 when. There was not too many in the whole social LinkedIn back then days. We had Xing in Germany, which was awesome. The other business platform, but this was not too much of selling out there. And he did a great job doing cold calling, utilizing his network, getting people on being interested in it.
[00:11:38] Then we DMF together and had great success, especially fast sales cycles. And from there, we grew with the team, did many, everything, journey, everything internal most likely through cold calling and cold emails. And over time, if you get a brand, if you're more known with trade shows and everything like that, conferences, you get more inbound.
[00:11:57] But I'd say for the first three, three years, [00:12:00] we relied on 95 percent outbound full calling emails, not too much social back then, but a lot of true cold generated calling to us. Did you how did you handle the challenge of expanding into other European markets with different languages, different cultures, different understandings?
[00:12:20] Was it a challenge at all? It is. And it is still. So if you're still in the, so we are mainly still focusing on Dachfried in Germany after Switzerland, good news for us it's at least the same language. So in Switzerland, yes, you also have French and so basically three languages in, in, but most part is still German, so you can reach most folks in, in calling and writing in, in, in German.
[00:12:45] The good thing over time is that English is probably besides of France, but English is accepted in most of the countries out there. So you can also do cold emails and calling in English also when it comes down to other countries within [00:13:00] Europe, especially Nordics. And also if you take a look at and looks there's English is quite accepted.
[00:13:06] The Netherlands, Belgium, all those, Denmark you can get quite along in England. But France has been said, that's. There, you should have somebody with French speaking or due to agencies and Spain, likewise. So people get along in Spain with English. It's better if you have it in Spanish, actually. So what we try doing in expanding through across Europe, it's most likely doing it through partners helping us enabling in the countries and see from there, if this is a country which is paying out.
[00:13:36] And if so, then hire some folks for their native tongue is probably this also within this country. It's the same language. But for the beginner, I could just reckon everybody doing it also heavily through partners. So partner mentoring is crucial because you will get a lot of insights at the same time.
[00:13:52] On the one side, there's somebody helping you selling out there, but also giving you a lot of insights within countries itself. And yeah, you spoke about mentalities [00:14:00] and the mentality in Spain is totally different than Germany and also in Italy or in the UK. And that's where a partner are really beneficial for you.
[00:14:09] And that's one lesson learned. Find the right partners, whether it's tech partners, SI, other agencies, single persons whatsoever, but figure out what the partners was most valuable for you and really concentrate on them. And a good partner is just as good as who take care of them in regards to reaching out, having a chat once in a while.
[00:14:29] So you have to take care of them. Share off in a prop as it is the same way in a proper relationship. Partners are just as valuable as you take care of them. And that helps you a lot also with another country. How are you growing your partner's network? It feels like it's almost like another segment where you need to sell into the same defining your ideal partner profile, understanding the chat the channels there, they operate within and then build the campaign to expand your [00:15:00] partner's network.
[00:15:01] Is there a different selling strategy for you into this kind of partnership network, or you still leveraging the partners that you have in your network and just reaching out to those? So both partners, especially in the beginning in Germany it was everything through my network.
[00:15:19] So other tech, Martek companies or something, which I knew, I'm just talking a lot to them and see where it could help each other. So most likely other firms at the same stage where we are at. More or less having revenue or stuff like that and employees. It was helping and get helped, I'd say in the beginning.
[00:15:38] And that was the most valuable partners we had back in days in Germany. When it's about growing partner network, it's. Also there, what I always doing is talking to friends, talking to other firms, what they did, what paid out for them and which are in the same space as you are. So really utilizing your network to get help from them, but could pay out or not.
[00:15:59] [00:16:00] So at least main getting a basic guideline, what to do and what not to do. But from there on, you have to figure out on your own, what's really worth for you and what's applicable for you, whether it's bigger as eyes, mid market as eyes whatsoever, or just tech partners could also be the case. And that's really highly dependent of what you're selling and how you're selling.
[00:16:20] So to give you an example, if you're selling an e com platform, like commerce tools or something, so implementing a commerce platform, it's a long journey. So there is also a lot of tech guys needed. There's a lot of advice needed. So most likely the more complex your product, the longer it is to implement, the more likely it will be having proper SIs on your site who will give assistance to their clients, how to implement it best way.
[00:16:49] And they also are the ones giving the proposal to their clients. What is the perfect e comm solution you're looking for? What you're, and then they, and that's then about enabling them. So it's a lot [00:17:00] about your product, how easy it's to implement, how complex is to implement, but all from there on how easy and how complex is to take care on a daily basis, the same with CDPs.
[00:17:12] CDPs have also long implementation. But all from there on, it's nothing you set up once and it's running out of the box and we'll keep on running. So you have also take care of it on a weekly basis, find community campaigns, what the next best strategy is. So the more strategic your product is, the more valuable can be the whole part of SIS or other partners they have there.
[00:17:32] So it's really highly dependent on who you are, what you're selling and. The maintenance be after that. So I just can give the advice to everybody out there utilize your network first, watch, help them compare them with open eyes, what they're selling, how they're selling, what their product is like, whether it's comparable or not, and then make your mindset and you should do mistakes.
[00:17:55] You just can learn from mistakes. You should not repeat your mistakes, but at least do some because [00:18:00] that's where you learn most out of it. And then see from there what the perfect partner network you can be. And then also go to conferences and check out the partners, who are there, basically make your shortlist, who we want to talk to and see whether it can pay out or not.
[00:18:14] That's how we grow our partner network right now. I'm also going to do a lot of conferences. For example, attending the Elevate event this Tuesday, this Wednesday and Thursday in Miami from Commerce Tools, where other partners will be. I already have my list who I want to talk to for North America, or who not and also get their mindset in what your product, because they will also give you feedback out your product and how comparable it's to the solutions out there already being in the market and.
[00:18:38] Last but not least with partners, that's also one thing I can recommend, don't just get out there and get 50 partners, because as being said, you have to nurture them. You have to take care of them. So have a two handful of partners, which you really want to work with because it will take time and effort to really get there.
[00:18:58] Get those partners enabled and [00:19:00] that they will sell you a product on their, on your behalf. What's your average ramp up time for a new partner? Like when do they typically start showing you the ROI and start selling and bringing you revenue and how much time do you typically give them to, start performing?
[00:19:18] Yeah, it's depending on the partner type. If you're talking about tech partners, we basically have complimentary products or something content square like that. I'd say it will take you two to four months, two to six months, basically to get results. Really also how long you already know them in advance, how much they know about your product.
[00:19:37] And then it's about enabling. So first of all, enabling both client success management team. On a partner level, they know, Hey, we do partner with Turbo. And if a client, existing kind of them talks to them and they say, I have a need in this or in that direction that, Hey, there's a partner out there who can help them.
[00:19:53] So it's about an enablement on CSM level. It's about an enablement on partner enablement on sales, AE level. [00:20:00] It also appear in pitch that, Hey, they are looking for my solution, but they also want to have a second solution pointing this direction. I have a partner can take care of that.
[00:20:10] And that's a process that will take. A couple of sessions then also marketing is heavily involved to have these one pagers in place, probably have some case studies already with existing customers. So what I can, in regards of tech partners, what I always can recommend is do an account mapping, see if you already have common clients.
[00:20:28] And if you do so check out, if these are probably some family and friends, customers where you can say, Hey, we are both partners, by the way from A and from B. And talk to the client and make a case out of it. So I was saying, Hey, we want to utilize solutions together and see if it can drive revenue or other KPIs on the website.
[00:20:47] And if it does, then make a case out of it. And this will take all some time to get the numbers in, to get the clients in. So three to four months, probably. But if you have that's already [00:21:00] great to have, because then you can also go out there and saying, Hey, you already have this solution in place. We are complimentary.
[00:21:06] These are the results from client AVC. Yeah. And also in regards to marketing, what really helps if you have that doing some webinars, join webinars together, or that's the marketing side of partner management, though, tech partners, everything between two to six month enablement, SIS agency partners will take a little bit longer just also due to the fact they, usually SIS, they don't have that much of active and which where we could be beneficial or not.
[00:21:34] So give it three to nine months, I'd say. We could talk and running. Yeah, no, that sounds good. Again it only shows you that it has to be a long-term game. You can't expect results overnight. You can't just expect some miracles. It has to, you have to be patient with your with your partners, both technical and, agency partners too.
[00:21:57] A hundred percent agree. Perfect. [00:22:00] Felix, moving into a, crucial chapter in Turbo's story, that's. Entering the U. S. market. Were you always planning getting into the U. S. market or at some point of time when you felt comfortable in, the German market and expanding in the European market, the U.
[00:22:19] S. market just became one of those things that you couldn't avoid and you needed to make this next step. So what was the strategy behind entering the U. S. market? So for me, it was always, I'm sorry, I've not caught a dream whatsoever. I had to wish at least always being once active in the North American market.
[00:22:41] Because I think strongly believe the North American market is ahead of most of the markets out there. Some countries have three years for other ones half a year, but they are still driving the whole business. That's where new invention is going on. There's a lot happening North American market. And if you, I think if you can make [00:23:00] it in North America, you can.
[00:23:02] Most likely making a lot of other countries as well, if you are, so vice versa, if you're coming at the U S term to Europe, for example, yeah, you have to change your mindset likewise, but you succeed on a product level already. So I always thought I have to enter the U S market at some point of time and I want it, but I want it not be going crazy with wasting money in the market, just throwing money at the bank.
[00:23:26] At the problem doing just hilarious marketing, paying, spending millions in marketing just to get a name out there. So when founding firm back in 2013, I haven't go to mark 2015 for me, first of all, getting successful at my home country, which is Germany plus Austria, Switzerland, and probably see in Europe.
[00:23:46] And then next step would be North America. So with COVID in between, as being said, so we, we found the U S entity in February, 2020, a month before lockdown aim and everything. [00:24:00] Perfect timing. Yeah, it was the perfect timing, but on the other hand, it was also giving us. Time to really take care of also the legal structures in North America.
[00:24:10] There's a lot different also in the hiring processes, in the, what you have you have these employee handbooks and stuff like that. Some things we didn't know also about the legal and tax issues between Germany and North America, how to process this. So at least gave us some time, probably would have liked to have a little bit less time in regards of COVID, to have it a little bit earlier.
[00:24:31] Yeah. Why North America? I think as being said, I think North America is where you can learn a lot. It's where you catch the whole vision, which is going on. If you speak, they're the most industries, I hear the big tech companies are still in North America. And also the market is quite huge. So the market, but for us who are in the e com space it's.
[00:24:50] Way bigger than just Germany or even in Europe. And as we've seen the competitors we were facing in Europe, they are most likely the [00:25:00] same what we have in North America. Yeah. The one others more active in the North America, the other one not so in Europe and there are some other ones were totally not.
[00:25:07] But at the bottom line, you have the same competitor landscape, I'd say. And we were quite successful also against competing the global leader in our space in Germany. And why not also from a product level, we thought from product level, we can compete in North America. And right now it's just coming down to how to do the go to market there in regards to sales, purchase and all this stuff.
[00:25:31] And it's just also on a wide scale. I don't be too overexcited about North America, just saying it's huge and there's easy sales process. No, it's not. It's also taking time also to adapt on how a way of selling is in North America. For example, in North America, it's way more loud or I don't want to use the word aggressive, but in North America, you have to show and you have to say, okay.
[00:25:59] That you're the best [00:26:00] in the market, that you have a great product. So you have to be really self confident. Cause it's a crowded space. You have to position yourself knowing that there are a lot of other companies either selling the same thing or saying the same thing. And it's just a lot of competition.
[00:26:16] So you have to be loud to break through the noise of others. A hundred percent agree. So that's under one percent. But also if you talk to somebody, it's being, you have to be really showing that you're self confident. You're the best guys out there and it's a perfect fit for the firm. Which is not too much of a particular for Germany and Germany is a little bit more, you always have to, it's because the other ones are good out there.
[00:26:37] Honestly, all the competitors we do have, they are also having really good tools. Otherwise they wouldn't have survived crisis, all this stuff and wouldn't be as big in the market as they are. So they are good. And that's the truth. And that's something you probably Germans appreciate more that you tell not, it's not lying in North America, so don't get me wrong, but in Germany, it's like more truthy, I'd say, [00:27:00] whereby North America, it's And yeah, and it's also the truth because we can compete and we are a great tool out there, but you have to say loud and clear that you are, and that's probably the difference.
[00:27:10] And also from a go to market perspective in North America and, but globally speaking with COVID, a lot of things changed beforehand. It was quite easy reaching people by phone, by email. You had most folks be in office right now, home office getting bigger. Most people won't answer their mobile phone if they don't know the number is 15 North America.
[00:27:32] So cold calling it, it was way better before COVID and it's just taking way more time right now. Our connection rates are lower and stuff like that. Don't tell me. I just wanted to say, I don't have to tell you that thing, but that's got just got more complicated. And also with that is harder to reach people by.
[00:27:53] calls, they are just bombed with emails, sold connect request. So also the noise, they got in there, especially the [00:28:00] decision takers and the marketing e commerce bait, they get bombed with emails, sold connect request, all this stuff. So it's hard to break through the noise and hard to get a belly prop out there with some emails.
[00:28:12] And still it is, if you don't have. Like we have a product which is massive and powerful, and we don't have the one product, one solution offering. We solve a hundred thousand different of problems with thousand different of solutions, which we can offer for the client. So it's really tough for us, not just in North America, the same thing within Europe to break through what they're really looking for right now.
[00:28:37] And what the one pain point, the biggest pain point they have, and that's more easy by phone where by phone, it's harder reachable. But also back to why North America, so I like North America on a private level. I like being here and I like the mentality here. And I think, I still think that the market to be, and especially in tech space, you can learn a lot and can [00:29:00] adapt a lot of things to learn here for Europe.
[00:29:03] That was the reason for us going rather having a more offensive gold market in North America, rather than in the rest of Europe. Are you still leveraging your your European team selling in the US market, or you actually need to hire someone in the US? Selling to the S customers, or are you still, or are you doing sales yourself?
[00:29:24] So I would just highly recommend if you're a European company and go to North America, you have to have people on the ground, especially for BDRs or AEs, or then finding the right firms like Lelium. Who can help you achieving goals without building your own team there in the beginning, a fine tune, your value pops, fine tune, your messaging and see from there selling.
[00:29:47] I would always recommend having on the ground in North America, just due to the fact. So most likely you're in central European time or central European summer time, which is six hours in between East coast and nine hours in between West coast. So having [00:30:00] 9 a. m. West coast is 6 p. m. German or central European time.
[00:30:04] Which makes it really hard. to do the selling from Germany or from Europe. So especially in, if you want to do calling, outreaching, BDRs, SDRs, whatever, you have to have people on the ground, which are in the same time zone. And also Germans don't sell the way that our North American totally think of the aggressive and you have to.
[00:30:27] It's interesting. Tell us more about the differences between the American seller and the European seller. It's. So it was an interesting feedback to hear. Yeah, that European cell. So it's more if somebody's calling in Germany and yeah, it's way more, I'd say, polite, some sort of when you're calling.
[00:30:50] Hey, excuse me, I have some time. Could I bother you for two minutes or something? It way more not respectful. I don't [00:31:00] find probably some mixture of respectful and polite, whatsoever. Yeah. But North America is you have to really put a little pressure on the guy or girl you're calling and think, Hey I just need two minutes of your time.
[00:31:15] So it's just the wording to how you phrase it. It's way different. It is way different. Yeah. And also from hitting on there, it, how are you some sort of show off what do you have to do in North America and that just, people who lived here. Who know the market, who know the way of selling around Europe and especially Germany, yeah, more polite, some sort of respectful.
[00:31:42] And I do agree. I think that the European way of selling is as much more professional in the sense of like formulating phrases and like asking questions. I don't want to say respectful, more respectful, right? More polite. But I think. Selling in the U S market, you just have to be [00:32:00] much more straightforward.
[00:32:01] Hey, I don't have the time for all the fluff. You only give me 10 seconds before you decide if you want to continue the conversation or hanging up the phone. So I have to hit you with a value proposition immediately and hope to God that the value proposition I have resonates with your pain point.
[00:32:20] And if that's the case, we'll probably have more time. We'll probably have more time to explain what we have in mind and how we can help. But before we get into that phase of okay, you got my attention. Like I'm willing to spend another 30 seconds of my time to hear you out. You have to be straightforward.
[00:32:37] Like before you get into how's your day and I'm sorry for bothering you. Or, those polite ways of selling that you would probably hear in the, in, in Europe. In the U. S. you just simply do not have that type of time. Yeah, I think one you got it totally right. I think straight is a perfect word.
[00:32:55] So way more straight, way more on point in North [00:33:00] America. And that's basically different. And also on the other hand side, if you also have folks in Germany, you would probably call it in North America. And if that would have some sort of mindset. Honestly, it's still better to have somebody with native tongue here without any too hard of German accent or something.
[00:33:16] So it, it is what it is. And so that's why it's better to have natives on the ground here, really selling products in their native tongue, but also in. The way they are used to it and the way probably what would trigger me listen to the other one. So they have the experience in the market. So from a EBR perspective you have to be, have people on the ground, just strongly believe in that other things you can do from a headquarter in Europe, for example, you can have joint marketing from there.
[00:33:44] You can have like tech support or even. You can have an solution engineer from Germany helping North Americans do the demo. So you schedule wisely, do it somewhere like 10 AM East coast or 11 or 12. East coast time. Then you can have folks in [00:34:00] Germany for the AE solution engineer comes in and they can be German that gives trust.
[00:34:04] So that's a, that's another thing, but the main person doing the deal, working on the deal and doing calling should be somebody on the ground here. I'd say. Gotcha. And Obviously, I know you outsource the software development portion of the sales cycle as a, you're an active client of ours, but I was just curious.
[00:34:25] The, what was your thoughts behind outsourcing versus building in house, I know U. S. market was a new market for you, so you're still exploring options. What was the final point in your decision of I am outsourcing this before I build this in house?
[00:34:44] That's a really good question. And then I think what I've seen in the past and also this is, they go for Germany. Yeah, we have an office here where our clients are class management, that's in Miami, then RAE and other ones that are spread around the country. What I [00:35:00] strongly believe, especially when it comes down to calling and BDR work, when you want to do it in house, you have to have people in the office.
[00:35:08] Just for training purposes, just to listen to the other ones, just to take care of also what they are saying, whether it could be phrased better, whether they got the value prop or not. All right. Teamwork, which needs to happen in one office at least for three days a week or something like that, but you have to have people face to do all sort of training, the coaching, and we don't have that.
[00:35:33] So as being said, I'm traveling in between I'm a month here, a month there. I wouldn't some BP co whatsoever here to take care of having a team, which is really expensive, honestly. So this is all something you have to have a for, if you can afford that, perfect. If you can hire a meeting, like five to 10 employees in one location, try that out and then get the right people on board.
[00:35:58] But it was a cost point. So [00:36:00] as being said, why trusting, for example, you have it did this over years and I'll see if a great checker occurred and send honest relationship. What we have with you guys. So that's something we're attracted on. And it's always coming down to that. And I trust you, it is what you're doing.
[00:36:20] If I want to build this on my own, first of all, you will always have misfires. So if you hire somebody especially in the sales part, it will take you three to six months to evaluate whether it is paid versus good or not. Because they don't do calling on the first day and we'll have results on the next day.
[00:36:39] Taking time, nurturing network, building a pipeline and see whether it's paying out or not. And that's usually it's taken three minimum up to, so I'd say after six months, you can think whether worth or not six to eight months. And. We'll have misfires here because also the employees, they're selling themselves quite good.
[00:36:58] That's the other thing. And [00:37:00] yeah then you have to have a team here. And if you're willing to do that, if you do have the money, I would do both things at parallel. Still, I would build up my own team, but have an outstores BDR from trying to help you to get faster results in and see from there and seeing out what's working out better.
[00:37:20] That's why for us, it was. But trust on firms out there who already proved that they can do it. So I'm also doing cold calling sequences, all this stuff I'm also trying out, but that's for me, just getting knowledge of the market but trust on firms out there who already proved Their success and that's, what's our decision, why we're working in this case.
[00:37:40] Gotcha. It sounds participating in conferences and events playing a huge part in your overall sales strategy. How do you pick the events you want to go? Do you do any sort of prep work prior to the events? After the event what's that kind of selling strategy as look like?[00:38:00]
[00:38:01] Yeah. So events is also something which worked for all for us and Jeremy. Now we're concentrating on two, two, three. Major events we're planning to attend how to evaluate the events we're trying to go for in North America. Also, there are a lot of talking with friends who already made their goal to mark North America, see what worked for them, what didn't work and then deciding.
[00:38:23] And also trying out to go to these conferences and events, whether it will pay out or not. So also there, you will waste money on this case, a hundred percent a year. So you will, because there are conferences, which are good for the one, but not good for you. For example, shop talk, great event, but if not appearing, you are in the market.
[00:38:43] So that's something. I figured out because it's way too big and it's all about the conference rather than the exposition. So it's also tough to get hold of people and within, for example, it's Foptalk. I would recommend everybody going there. Don't go. So yeah, there's Shoptalk [00:39:00] in Vegas, but go to the site events like the Muck house, for example.
[00:39:03] We are also a member of the Muck Alliance, which is also great for us. Getting the mindset out there with the whole composable headless and. They always having also a muck event there where all the partners and customers attend. So there you can find people who have the same mindset as a partner and who are also in the muck alliance, but also customers who appreciate.
[00:39:26] The whole composable and mock architecture you're looking for. So in regards to the events, it's really get a list down there, like e televised, NRAF, Shop. Vegas, but all the smaller ones. And I do the smaller ones because it's more private. It's more, it's easier to get hold of people. And for all those events out there, I did the same for the Elevate event.
[00:39:49] Usually you have an app and you see the people attending. So prep yourself, check out who is there. Ideally, you can have a chat with them through the app, otherwise, if not, try to get [00:40:00] ahold of them. LinkedIn, email, if you have the email addresses. Prep yourself who you'd like to meet and who not. And if you have the bucket list who you want to meet, Hi, in a way of meeting them somewhere.
[00:40:13] Also remember the faith is a good AE of us in Germany. He honestly is printing out some pet sheet about persons to like little pitch book you always have in pocket. The okay, are they there? What's their faith looking like? And do I see them at the event in the afternoon or something like that?
[00:40:30] Preparation is crucial. I'd say be aware of what the conference is about. Be aware of what the main talk trick is to also follow up with that with prospects or other part that you want to talk there. Mainly focused on who is attending there, which companies are attending there, which partners are attending and who you'd like to meet and do your homework forehand, write them either through the app, through email LinkedIn whatsoever, if you have those addresses, but also afterward, after you attended the event.
[00:40:59] So the [00:41:00] good thing for both being in the same conference or. Event you've been, you have something you can write about after following up, Hey, you've also attended elevate was great meeting you and the like, that they will reply is way higher. Yeah, sure. You can always pretend offers you were there.
[00:41:16] And so if you don't attend the event, always write the attendees offers, Hey, I was at event, but that's pure lying. I don't like too much. It's really worth it on the one hand, reaching out beforehand, who you want to talk to, try to get on hold of them while the event or even follow up after, so hey, you all were attending Elevate.
[00:41:34] We missed I missed talking to you because I couldn't find you, is there any chance talking within the next two weeks? I'd like you as they're opening up and replying is way higher if you also attended these events rather than not. And then for our listeners, just, just for the matter of giving them a quick advice from the ROI perspective, leveraging those conferences, what do you think is the best strategy?
[00:41:59] [00:42:00] Do you typically have a booth there? So you drive the traffic to to, to your booth, or you really just have the list of contacts and you're like trying to get in touch with them throughout the event or do you apply for a sponsorship, more money, but Hey, Who cares if it brings the ROI and helps you signing a few customers.
[00:42:21] So what's your, what are your thoughts on this? Yeah. There's not the one answer because always depending on your budget. If you have millions of budget, go up with, do sponsoring, do everything. It is what it is. Because that's also branding there.
[00:42:37] For example, here in you guys in the market, ShopTalk, I would not recommend you having a booth in this case, because I think the Expo hall, it's currently empty. We did that. We had last year, a smaller booth at ShopTalk 2023. You can meet a lot of partners in the expo hall, but not too many clients who talk to, because they are in the conference, they're listening to [00:43:00] the great speeches they have there.
[00:43:01] They're most unlikely in the expo hall. So there's all about networking around this, meet them at some bar, meet them at party events, whatsoever. So that's paying out way better. So it's really depending on the conference and bigger the conference is or the bigger the expo is. I would say I would not than having a booth.
[00:43:22] So if the biggest conference, the biggest trade show you have, and you guys on the market don't get a booth because you're locked in the one house, another one, the smaller it gets, the more worthy it's to take a sponsorship to have their own booth because. If you're just one out of 20, people will see your logo.
[00:43:40] People will recognize you. People attending this will say, Hey, that's Turbo, that's your firm. And they will know the brand and sales. There's always this, you say the seven to eight contact points until somebody will remember you. So seeing the brand in some cases, or listening to it like seven, eight times, and then you will be in their mind at least when it comes down to a decision.[00:44:00]
[00:44:00] So the smaller it is, the more I would go for sponsoring and having a booth. Bigger, I would attend, but may need to concentrating on events. Yeah. One of our clients once recommended me. It said, Sergei for big events, never do a booth, just use the budget for buying everyone drinks. And that would be a better money spent.
[00:44:27] You'll have a better networking. You'll have more conversations or more chances to close the deal rather than hoping that among thousands of companies having a booth on the floor. Your ideal customer profile picks you and stops next to your booth and have a conversation with one of your sales reps.
[00:44:46] I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on it. Yeah, but that's pretty same. We've seen the bigger it is, the more spent the money on guerrilla marketing or something like that, or buying things were more worth it. Big trade shows rather than having your own [00:45:00] booth because it will be lost in the other ones.
[00:45:03] Yeah. Felix, now that you've come, you've been conquering the U. S. market for a little bit. What are the main milestones you think you guys achieved? So we did, so we achieved already some milestones here and that's so the milestones was really for the first clients we brought in that also our product can compete against the competitors we have here.
[00:45:27] And that's something that was basically the biggest milestone for us, that we have a product which is successful in Europe and especially in the region, but also that, and within North America, we can also compete. Especially guys out there who are big in North America. So that was the biggest milestones that we see.
[00:45:46] We have a product market, but still without humaning it too much and the product itself. So that was, I think it's biggest achievement to really recognize, Hey, we can compete here. We have a product which don't need to [00:46:00] adapt it too much, probably slightly, but not too much. And we can also conquer with this product North America.
[00:46:06] Next one sure thing was getting the first clients in getting for meetings in and getting a mindset here. So I'm not going hilarious with milestones, which are upcoming, how many clients I want to have, or where I want to be at the end of the year. So it's nothing. We're still, we are startup in North America, but so we are startup, but having a fully fledged product already having the capability of changing the product ring called tech infrastructure behind the marketing comes from Jeremy, but we're still a startup in regards of getting clients on board and Next milestone is somewhere to be getting 50 to a hundred clients in that be some sort of milestones and probably adapting to what we achieved so far.
[00:46:47] I think great that we know we can handle the problems also folks see in North America and that are similar to what we see in Europe and we don't have a doubt too much in product and also how to [00:47:00] take care of the client. I think that's management just about fine tuning the sales process and also the partner landscape here to succeed.
[00:47:08] But I'm realistic on the market. It all with the economics being given that it wants. I never thought it'd be easy and it will not. And it's just for us seeing day by day, also what's coming up, how the economics develop and how likely it is to get a bigger footprint out there. And then is there anything you might have approached differently looking back?
[00:47:35] Yes, I would. So if I would do a go to market launch again I would more rapidly rely on agencies like you helping us. So we tried in the beginning also having 1BR at AE, speaking of a team that's working out in Germany, but didn't. So I would instantly go for somebody out there and help us.
[00:47:58] Spreading name out there and getting [00:48:00] meaning. Yeah, I think I would even more focus on partners in the beginning. Also prior to the market launch. So prior, if I want to go to North America, do your homework in advance, check out probably also your competitors, who they are working with, what the partners are, check out your network, who is not just within Europe, but also operating North America and concentrate on partners.
[00:48:21] And have people help you doing the outbound like you guys, that's something I would have changed. Yeah. I think from like the outbound standpoint. Some of the things that and we changing those with you as well, but not to unleash any secrets here, but I think, personalization and segmentation by specific use case that's a huge, that's a huge thing in your market, right?
[00:48:47] As you mentioned, there are so many different features and ways of utilizing your product. You almost have to be a little bit more specific, a little bit more industry centric. Educating your prospects on how [00:49:00] they can, on, on how they can use the platform, because without that, you might sound as all these other companies out there selling personalization, misleading them what personalization actually means.
[00:49:13] So I think that was a huge, that was a huge milestone for us working with you guys is really getting to the point where we understand the use cases and how to position those different features and then functionality to different audiences, really different industries have different understandings.
[00:49:31] Like you mentioned, that travel company as one of your first clients in Germany, the way they approached your solution was very interesting, right? Something that you wouldn't even think about, but they found a use case for for turbo, which I think that's, what's happening with outbound right now is how you need to give your prospects a little bit of an idea of this says what you can get.
[00:49:54] Yeah. With us. And this is how you need to start using us. And that's all the probably one bit [00:50:00] advice. And you're totally right on that. If you're approaching another to you, which is already, so presentations known and you have patterns out here and there's nothing brand new or so pick some, be quite precise in who you want to target.
[00:50:16] Not going as broad as possible, be as precise as possible, and probably also go for a niche where the other ones are not too strong in. Yeah, you should also go in parallel to the, like the most promising now, okay, I'm a fashion channel or casual fashion is the most promising vertical we have and where we have the most client.
[00:50:36] Sure thing, go for it, but also nail it down to probably not just casual fashion, get down to shoes or women fashion age group 40 plus or whatsoever. So make it as precise as possible that you, I don't want to go very good at, but also in parallel, check out probably the one other vertical, which is more or less a niche.
[00:50:54] Where the other ones are not too strong, but where you have great use cases, which you can also apply and can tell [00:51:00] a story. Yeah, no, that's that, that's very interesting feelings just to summarize today's conversation. I think some of the key points that I'm, I took notes on.
[00:51:12] Were a rely on your local teams, the European team should sell into European markets. The American team should be selling into the American market. If you don't have the time, the energy, the budget selling in the S with your local team, then try to find a good partner. Where they have the local presence and they can replace your team, whether it's, the marketing team, the sales development team, really any other teams.
[00:51:41] But then also leverage your partner network from the very beginning, use your connections, expand there, treat your partners well. And understand your product market fit and be segmented and specific with use cases. And participate in [00:52:00] events that are relevant to you.
[00:52:01] Don't overspend money on all the marketing and promotion, but rather be very specific in the events you want to participate in. Smaller are better than bigger, just because you'll have more time and chances to connect with the right people and have meaningful conversations. And yeah Felix, it was a great pleasure talking to you today.
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