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You’re tired.
Not just physically; though yeah, that too.
You’re tired in your bones. In your soul.
Trying to be a steady husband, an intentional dad, a man of God… but deep down, you feel like you’re falling short. Like you’re carrying more than you know how to hold.
Dad Tired is a podcast for men who are ready to stop pretending and start healing.
Not with self-help tips or religious platitudes, but by anchoring their lives in something (and Someone) stronger.
Hosted by Jerrad Lopes, a husband, dad of four, and fellow struggler, this show is a weekly invitation to find rest for your soul, clarity for your calling, and the courage to lead your family well.
Through honest stories, biblical truth, and deep conversations you’ll be reminded:
You’re not alone. You’re not too far gone. And the man you want to be is only found in Jesus.
This isn’t about trying harder.
It’s about coming home.
How's it going, dad? Tired. Good to see you all. I'm here with our good buddy, Caleb. And then, uh, for so many of us, it's just a. Really good moment to see Jared back here and getting to talk with him. And today's kind of a special podcast because if you've been following dad tired for a while, a lot of the times Dad Tired has become synonymous with Jared Lopes.
And, um, we shared a, a podcast a while back that Jared was gonna kind of be going, uh, offline for a bit. To be discovering some stuff and figuring out some stuff and fixing some stuff in his life. And, um, before he just jumps back in the chair and picks back up where he lefts off as two members of the board of Dad tired, we wanted to sit down with Jared.
And, uh, Jared's always had his commitment of kind of opening up his, his life and his heart to. Um, be instructional for us as dads and for us as men. And so we, we wanted to take that opportunity to do a, a couple things, which is a, to, to reposition Jared and say, uh, we're so proud of you and, and this journey that you've walked through too, to, uh, answers at at least 30,000 feet.
Why we as a board go, like, we've, we've heard, we've walked through what. Jared needs to walk through and, uh, we're excited to kind of reinstate him in the place that he's been. Uh, and then just to walk through a little bit of, maybe you've seen this elsewhere in ministry where, uh, someone stumbles in something and then, uh, restoration is done poorly or there is no restoration.
And so we wanna talk about from dad tired as a, as a board and, and with Jared. What, what has this process been like to, uh, get back in a position where you feel comfortable and, and all these things? I know I'm using vague generalities. Because I, on one sense, I wanna be able to dive into it at the appropriate time, but, um, at, at, at a, at a high level view, we're excited just to kind of do those things in succession here and to we welcome, to welcome, uh, Jared back in.
And so, um. We'll, maybe, we'll a, we'll answer the, the biggest question first, and so maybe I'll, I'll throw it over to Caleb for this one, which is, if someone's tuning in and they're listening and they're, they're going, wait, hold on, hold, hold on. I don't even know what happened, what happened? Um, there's, there's a tension that we hold as a board, but ultimately our response to that, Caleb, if you're trying to fill in that question that someone's asking, what's appropriate there?
Yeah. I think, um, right off the bat, as we have the dis this discussion, there's this. Kind of tension that you'll find us walking. And one hand, Chris and I are saying as members of the board, um, you guys, most of you guys know that Jared, uh, is a member of my, our local church. So I am, he's one of my closest friends that also serve as his pastor.
We are saying on one hand, like, we have heard all the details, like we know all the things that Jared's been walking through, and so you're gonna feel us affirming that Jared has been super transparent and has wrestled through some real heart issues. While on the other hand, Chris and I are kind of standing in the way going, um, all of Jared's life is not privy to the entire internet.
And so I think if you sense me and Chris putting a little stiff arm and going, protecting our friend and someone that we love with like all of our hearts, um, it's with good means. And so I think we're off the bat. We would say that like Jared is wrestling with some things in his heart that have been tough stuff he's carried for a long time in his life, but.
I think for Chris and I both, I would say like nothing has been disqualifying. We don't think in any way Jared is disqualified from ministry or is, um, there's been no, I'll just say off the cuff, like no sexual affair or he hasn't murdered anybody or robbed the church. But there are some like just heart things that he is really wrestle with.
And so we'll jump into that a little bit. But we would wanna create a category right off the bat of like, there are some issues that disqualify a person from leadership immediately. And there are other issues that we all just wrestle with and need time to process and to communicate and confess. And we feel knowing all the facts that this is a second box here.
Jared's got some things he's wrestling with. Chris and I and the board are going, let's slow down your life a little bit and get you really healthy, not your ex na and disqualified. Though I think Chris and I would both stand on, there are times that people are disqualified and, um, we're not for this kind of pro abusive leadership where individuals can sin in any way that they wish, steal money, have sex, and never be sat down.
We are acknowledging that there is a box of you're disqualified from eldership, from ministry. But we don't think that this is that moment. We think this is a moment of wrestling hard issues, uh, trying to process a deep pain that Jared's carried for a lot of years. And so Chris, does that help? Did that, did that.
Spring Clarity. Yeah, it's great. And, and, and I think the, the, the call you'll feel, especially in like a quote unquote cancel culture, is people start throwing rocks going, uh, you are not being transparent, but really what they mean is I'm curious and I wanna know more. And that's like, that's, um, Jared is a, is a good man and he is a man after God's own heart.
And even everything that we've walked through with him in this last season just continues to demonstrate that with a complete humility and recognition of what's going on. And, um. I'm just, uh, I think that the church in general has been pushed around way too much as of late in situations where you go with, we have, I mean, I think this caused me to write a whole biblical thesis on like restoration and when a leader, uh, makes a mistake or falls into sin or whatever it might be, and I.
And then after doing that, we've been applying it in this situation across the board. So, um, yeah, we're not gonna bow at the throne of modern culture saying, if you don't tell us every detail, then you're not really being transparent. Um, the, the, the submission of local church to local authority, which we feel like in a lot of ways Jared plays that role as a spiritual leader in some categories.
But really ultimately he started a podcast 'cause he was a dad who shrugged his shoulders and said, what if there's a way of doing this in community? And so with all those things, uh, being said, not every, you need to know that there's a group of men that know everything that are biblically based and aren't letting anyone get away with anything.
And that needs to be sufficient at some point. Um. The internet didn't use to exist before all this stuff. So the idea that if there's not a long video of an hour and a half documentary made, then something isn't fully known. Jared is fully known, uh, to an extent I'll let him share exactly what extent he has that excuse he's been known at.
But, um, there's, Chris and I have been doing all the talking for a couple months, so. Yeah, that's right. So, uh, Jared, hopefully that's a good way to underpin this, that when you've been walking through something like this, it's no fun to get onto a podcast and go, Hey guys, just trust me. Right? Like, and, and so I, it was my recommendation to come on here.
I said, Jared, let us come on there and throw that like there. It's not because it hasn't been thought of, it's 'cause we've been working through this a lot and believe that. We did a really good job in this process of making sure that sin is sin, but also that, uh, we don't bow at the throne of culture that says, well, and if anyone stumbles and what, like, can any of us even sit here right now and talk through, even if you did know all the information that I.
Jared has shared, um, 99% of us would shrug and go, oh, I get that. I fully get that. And you guys know Jared's story from growing up in his tension with his dad and everything. And sometimes you just, you seek affirmation in wrong places. And, and, um, and so he's been, but all those things, none of the, which, if he was in a local church context would be disqualifying for him.
But enough that we said, you know what, let's get you really healthy. Let's get you and your marriage really healthy. And now it feels like we've. Finished walking that road and we're ready to see him back where, what God's built him to do. So, Jared, let me throw it over to you. Mm-hmm. And let you kind of share.
But let me just kind of prompt you with a question. If you were to summarize what this last season has been like for you, how would you do that for the people who are listening? Oh, dang, dude. Um, I think I said right before, like the last podcast when I was stepping out for a little bit, I had mentioned that you and I did a podcast and I said to.
That we need to treat sin like a cancer, not like a headache. You had said that on one of the episodes and so part of the, when I was leaving to just step out and just like do some soul work, I was thinking this, I really do wanna treat this like cancer. And so I want it to like, I want the doctors quote unquote doctors to like scrape out every.
Everything that could possibly in there that was not honoring to God. And um, so to answer your question, I feel like it's been hell in many ways. Like I've been surgery after surgery, after surgery, chemo, after chemo, after chemo. And I also feel like, oh dang, like I. Well, I wanna be honest, I feel like there was even more, there was even more cancer in me than I thought.
Like when you just lay it out on the table, when you confess sin, like I was just telling you guys before we hit record, like I, I've confessed like literally every sin I could think of in my life. Uh, I've written it down and I've confessed it like three times in the last two days. Um, and so like, just, just seeing it all on paper, you're like, dang.
Okay. That is a cancer and it, it needed to be rid. Um, and so in many ways it feels like I've been under surgery for four months, um, and it sucked and it was really, really hard. And then the other ways I'm like, I also feel like a lot of healing. I don't feel healed. I never, I always get like skeptical of people are like, I, I went through some stuff and I'm healed.
Uh, I just feel like I, I got a clear idea of what the pain was that has been with me for so long in my life. And now I am moving towards a healing process. And um, I guess it would be like if the doctor being like, okay, you don't have cancer right now. Like, there's no, we don't see any cancer in you, but you're going to, like, you can't go eat McDonald's every day.
You know what I mean? Like, there's gonna be some things that you're, you're gonna have to do about change your diet, change your lifestyle in order that this cancer doesn't come back. I didn't really think of that analogy ahead of time. There's pro that probably breaks down, but that's what I'm feeling right now.
I do feel too, and I just wanna say, yeah, I'm just overjoyed to be with the dad, tired guys right now, like to sit in front of you guys. Um, I've missed the dad tired community so much. And I'm also like, my heart is beating hard, you know, like, I'm feeling like super nervous about all the things. And so I, I'm the same way.
You know, like when somebody disappears for four months and then they come back, you're just like, gimme everything. Like what really happened? Don't. Um, but I, yeah, I've. I've been confessing sin consistently for the last four months. Every stone, uh, no stone has gone unturned. Um, so yeah, I don't know. I'm rambling, but that's where I'm now, Jared, I was just gonna add that, um, we meet every week.
Like I've met with Jared every week since this has happened. I don't, I don't know if there's been a week that we've missed, and I've said to Jared several times, like, you might be being a little bit too hard on yourself, like the, you've been all in on the process of repentance and confession, and I've been saying several times like.
You should probably have an ice cream and go for a wall. Um, so if there was a line of like, too, um, too rigid or too soft, I would say that like, there have been times where I'm like, Jared, you were beating yourself over the head. Like it's time to, to pull back and have some grace with yourself. And so I just wanted to acknowledge that, that this, when you say you treated it like a cancer, I really have seen that.
And I think not only myself, but other brothers have been saying to you, um, yeah, treat it like a cancer. We're all in your corner. Um. Sometimes you need to watch a movie and laugh, um, because I think you've, you've been all in on that process of repentance, confession, sorrow, um, trite, uh, be having a broken heart.
You've been there for a solid. Season for sure. I think, I think I told the guys, I think on the last episode that I was on that I was like, when Dad tired started, I knew that there was some stuff in me that I probably needed to work on when I was leaving out of like church ministry and just kind of jumping into the podcast world.
But it, it started so quick, like the dad tired ministry just kind of took off and I was like, okay, I guess I'll deal with that later. And uh, and so I think that because this like, just felt like it came up again and there was like pain points again. Um, I was like, I'm just gonna use this oppor. Like I'm gonna go full in.
And truly, I was thinking like even if I, my motivation for just wanting to, to get healthy, like holistically healthy is not so that I can jump back into the Dad tired podcast. As much as I love the dad tired guys, and I love this ministry. Like if you told me, Jared, you'll never do Dad tired again, you'll never be in ministry again.
I'd still be like. That's fine. Like, I just want to be healthy for the sake of my own health, my own marriage, my own kids. And let me cut in right there, Jared, because just for you guys that are listening, that was, that's, that was his suggestion. His suggestion was just shut it down. And, um, you know, as, as he's starting to recognize this in himself and, and see these things, he's like, just shut it down.
Like sell it. Figure it out. Not even sell it, just cancel the whatever. Like we're done. And it was guys like me and guys like Caleb and people who've been like, I'm like, Jared, I need you bud. You know, like it, this is not something, and maybe that's part of like kind of resonate real time. Maybe. It's always felt like a pacifier for you, Jared, in that.
Like moment of affirmation. But then for me to go like, okay, that was probably an unhealthy way to see it, is that this is what gives you value. But you need to know that God's actually used even that insecurity that you have to change a lot of guys and to change me. And as one of my best buddies, I was just like, no man.
Like I, please don't. Jump into that, which is why we then brought you into like this process of restoration. That was a selfish thing for me to do because I'm like, no man, I need you. I want you thinking about these things. I I want you processing life together and let me run him through those things, Jared, and then lemme, I'll turn it back over to you.
'cause I, I didn't mean to interrupt you in the middle of that, but I wanna make sure we have the same, when we're talking about what we've walked him through, this is kinda the basis of it. I don't mind, um, sharing a lot of this stuff. Uh, if you guys. You guys always ask me for notes after all my podcasts.
Um, and maybe you work at a church or you're in ministry and you want to use something like this. This isn't specific for Jared. This is just, it literally represents probably a 20 to 30 hour deep dive into scripture about what does it mean when someone stumbled and bringing them back in. And we, we kinda said this, we need to see full disclosure.
Uh, Jared, if there's anyone needed full disclosure, like I, can I tell 'em that you were, oh, the thumb thing. Can I, I mean, you were on a polygraph test, right? Yeah. How wild was that? Yeah. Um, and so I went to this counseling thing for two weeks and, um, you, you can't, you can't have your phone with you. You're just separated from the world for two weeks and you're confessing sin and you're doing deep dive counseling.
It's like, it's so intense. It's had I known everything that they were gonna put me through going, I don't know if I would've gone. It's that intense. Um, but part of that, like one of the first days they were like, okay. And part of this, just so your wife knows everything so that you can, like, you know, for yourself and your wife knows like I'm putting, I'm willing to put everything out there on the table, every thought I've had every.
Fantasy. I've had every sin that I've committed. I want her to know all of me. Uh, we suggest that you do a polygraph test. And I was like, is this a joke? Like, am I being like punked right now? Like there's no way. Uh, fast forward four months and I was like hooked up to a polygraph, uh, you know, with an examiner for four hours and 15 minutes, um, confessing all my sin and then verifying, like, is what you're saying true?
Is this everything? And, uh, I passed by the way. Um, I thought I was gonna pass out, but I did pass the test and, uh. So anyway, I, yes, I did. Just to, just to reaffirm too, there's, there's no hidden, hidden sin, hidden things that haven't been confessed. Jared on the, on the way was kept going. Like, what if I think of something else?
Or what if there's something hidden deep in my conscience I haven't considered? Um, so I just wanna affirm again that there was sincere and repentance and confession that, that Jared was walking in. Yeah. And when you see that in scripture, you see a path towards restoration. And when you don't, you see destruction.
And those are some of the first things we're looking for as a board. And any church ministry. Does this guy get it? Does he get the openness, the something that moves on to like a deep contrition? Um, this is like the emotional part of the, uh, the, the thing coming out, right? It's like, I feel actually bad about this.
And Jared, when that stuff's coming out, you're, you're struggling. Walk us through that struggle of like, because you know your world's torn apart, right? It's like, here's who people perceive me to be, and in honesty, I. People probably didn't see you as high as you probably thought, or, or that like your perfection was what they were looking for.
But when you think that, that Satan loves to tell us like, you're worth nothing if people really knew you. Yeah. And then you try to keep it going. But when it came and it went like, okay, finally the idea you had of yourself and what people are gonna see, you are now gonna be in tandem. It was pretty rough for you.
Yeah. I'll, I'll talk about, um. I wanna process a lot of this, you know, slowly and over the next coming weeks with the guys. I'll do that and kind of tell all the stories. But dude, like the, my biggest struggle my entire life since I was a little boy is if you knew all of me, you wouldn't love me. Hmm. Um, and that just led to the deep, like, I would say, I don't know if I said this on the podcast, but like, I've, I've hated myself my whole life.
Um, like just had a genuine hatred for myself. 'cause since I was a little boy, there was like a, um. People would be like, pastor Jared, oh, this guy's he close to God. He can quote scripture. And on the other hand, you know, at, in sixth grade I saw pornography for the first time. So that there's a shame there.
You know, you're like, oh, I'm, I see this, or I've looked at this and this is who I really am. People are, people think I'm Pastor Jared. And, and so that there's these early cycles or early patterns of shame. Um. It just like it haunted me like that. That was the thing I've, I felt my whole life is like, dude, and I said this to the dad tire guys, like, if you really knew, I feel like a fraud.
If you really knew me, you wouldn't love me. And there was a time, I was 10 days into counseling at this recovery place and I was 10 days there and none of these guys knew what I did for work. They didn't know, they didn't know anything about dad tired. I couldn't. You're not allowed to talk about your work and you're certainly not to talk, allowed to talk about any accomplishments.
All you're doing is confessing sin and talking about the worst broken parts of your life. And I was sitting there after 10 days with these guys, living with them, and I'm like, these dudes love me. Like they genuinely love me and they don't know anything great about me. Like all they know are the worst parts of me.
And that was the, I think that there's been a lot of like healing moments, but that for me was like flagship moment where I'm like, I can just be me. Be fully loved at the same time. And that's that dude that was like. That was a game changer for me. I don't know if I answered your question, but Yeah. No, that's so powerful though, man.
Y yeah, that that it's, this is the dumbest thing to say, but there's a, there's almost a jealousy that you can go with, like with how rough it was, but then thinking about how free I. You must feel in the middle of all that. And you know, I think it for Layla, like she's probably the only wife in America right now who can go, no, like I've got a, uh, I've actually got paperwork that shows me that my husband hasn't said anything untrue to me for the past, whatever.
It's gonna, I mean, there's a, it's like Lansing a wound. When the scalpel goes in, it sucks, but then the healing comes afterwards. So we talked about that deep contrition and then an appropriate level of consequence is the third thing. And from. Man, I just, I think of getting on the phone with you that day where kind of everything hit the fan and I just, I, yeah, we love you man so much.
And it was, it was hard to like listen to you be experiencing those things and appropriate consequences. Just making sure that, um. It's kinda what Caleb was talking about earlier, like, we're not a ministry that goes, well, you're so productive. Let's just turn the other direction and not care about your actual health.
That wasn't part of it at all, and, and I think about the consequences of like walking through stuff with Layla and then, you know, the, the. Thing, you're going to this counseling thing and taking a polygraph and um, yeah. And then practical things too. Uh, this is your job. And so for a season it's like, what?
And it's the concern of like, what, where's income coming from and all those other things, and what are people gonna think? Are they still gonna be supportive of me, uh, supportive of me when they find out that I'm not this perfect guy? And I, and I think across the board, what you find, I, I can speak for myself and I think I am a good cross section of the dad tired audience, which is like, we just love you and we do know what you do.
Um, but we never loved you because you were perfect. We always loved you because you had this way about you of saying the things that we're feeling. You're just saying 'em out loud, and I think there's a deep respect we have for that. Caleb, do you feel that? I mean, how do you Yeah, I, I, I've said to Jared several times, like, we all know that there's like some messed up things going on in your head.
I think there's not one of us who live with this perspective of like, Jared is the most perfectly emotionally healthy man that's ever lived. Like we all are aware that you're processing deep stuff, like Chris is saying. You're just doing it out loud. And that's super helpful because I don't think anyone looks at me and says, you're a, a perfect emotional well person.
Um, like, I need people honest about their struggles to, to help me sift through my own. And so, yeah, I, that's what I kept trying to say to Jared through this process. Like, dude, dude, hold on. Like, no one thinks that you are, um. The most blameless, spotless being with no sin or struggles. Like that's actually why we love you is because you'll be honest about it or at least bring it to the table and this all checks out.
You know what I mean? Like, and when I say that, I mean like that's, that is how we should all perceive ourselves too, as if we had our worst day or we're in the middle of something like you're experiencing. I want everyone to look at me too and go like, that checks out. That checks out. Like he's, he's talked about vulnerability, he's talked about insecurity.
He's talked about a proclivity towards broken things. It's like, it's Paul, it's Paul and Roman seven. Why do I do the stuff I don't wanna do? And I don't do the stuff that I know I'm supposed to do. And so you find the right situation at the right time. And it's just like, if I had, if I was in a similar situation, I hope everyone would, that no one would go.
What Chris kin, but that they would go for sure, uh, probably took a left when he should have taken a right. But at the end of the day, he wasn't out here telling us that he doesn't understand what temptation is. He was out here being very vulnerable and so, yeah. Um, yeah, just really proud of you, man. And, and so we talked about that appropriate level of consequence and get, you wanna elaborate on that at all, like how that's been experienced in your life and just the, what does this thing cost you?
Oh dude. Well. I mean, it, I feel like it's cost me everything. Um, and yet God has also been really gracious, but I, I was, there was one day I was at this, in this, um, the two week program. There's been so much counseling and stuff after, but obviously two weeks is like the most intensive thing that you can do.
So I was there and, um, I was, I don't remember how long I was there, like a week or something. And I remember I couldn't sleep. So I was up at three in the morning just sitting in the kitchen journaling and reading my Bible. And I was thinking like. I don't know, a week ago, 10 days earlier, I was like recording a podcast that would be listened to by, you know, thousands of guys.
I was hanging out with a two time Super Bowl winning champion, doing like a podcast at his house. And speaking engagements were lined up. Like my life was just like, I was really happy with my life and here I am at three in the morning at this house with 10 other broken dudes. I can't call my wife. I'm across the country.
Like I was just like, what In the wor like my life is just completely. It's just completely flipped upside down. And even, you know, throughout this whole pro, the last four months, I've, I've still felt like, you know, is Dad's Tire gonna sustain? Will I even, will I go back to Dad Tire? What's my life gonna look like?
Am I've, I've many times updated my resume and thought about like, do I go work somewhere else because I have, how am I gonna provide for my family? Is anyone gonna take me back when I, if I do want to come back, or the board thinks it's right for me to come back, is anyone even gonna want that? So, uh, yeah, man, there's been so many things along with, um.
Probably the deepest one. Looking at my wife in the eye multiple times and telling her everything I've ever done that did not honor her and did not honor God. You know, um, that feels like a consequence, but also a ton of freedom in that. So, yeah. I think too, from, from our angle, every corner Jared was going.
What do you guys think's next? Not like, I wanna be back tomorrow, or I wanna be speaking in the next three weeks. I think on the, again, on the other side, we were going like, all right, Jared, you're ready, dude, we're ready to get this going. And so I just wanna reiterate that the process has not been Jared rebellious or Jared pushing too hard.
But a, a lot of times it's Chris and I on the phone or another board member on the phone, and we're going, alright, what do we think is healthy for Jared? What's good for Jared? And Jared's just continually, yeah, I'm good with that. I'm, I'm gonna do that. Um, I wanna be, I think. The one thing I've heard Jared say the most is, I wanna be a truth teller.
I wanna be honoring and submissive you constantly. I'm gonna be a truth teller. We were on the boat, um, last weekend. The kids said, uh, we were taking our kids to this like island to play or something, and. The kid said, how much farther? And I said 10 minutes, but I knew it was really like 20 minutes and Jared was like, I don't lie.
I'm done. So, so I just continually, everything's 10 minutes to the kids. Um, but just a consistency to truth and to honor and submit to leadership, I think has been huge. Yeah. I feel like you're in such a. Powerfully dangerous place of a guy who's watched everything crumble, and then a commitment to truth where it's like, I feel like I'm gonna lean in and you know, like I'm not gonna miss any podcast.
Whereas before it'd be like, eh, yeah, I don't know about this one. You know that, that topic, it's, it's just gonna be Jared talking about whatever. And now it's like to watch a man who's fully free because he's kind of tasted that. It's like, man, I'm, I would hope that for all the guys listening, they'd be more interested than they've ever been because yeah, the pretense is continually stripped away.
And so just really proud of you in that too. And last thing we talked about was like a, uh, the fourth thing. So that deep contrition, appropriate consequences. Um, the recognition in the full disclosure. And then lastly is a, a clear path to repentance, which is, that's part of the board's job. The board job is to say.
Um, it's that there, there's a poem by a woman named Portia Nelson, and I think I've shared on the podcast before, but essentially it's, it's, she writes it, it's called My Life in Five Chapters, and chapter one is I walk down a sidewalk. There's a deep hole in it. I fall in, how did I get here? It's someone else's fault.
It takes me a long time to get out. Chapter two, I walk down the same street. There's a deep hole in the sidewalk I fall in. How does this keep happening to me, this is really a. Fortunate. I get myself out. It takes me a long time. Chapter three, I walk down the same street. There's a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it this time. I fall into it. I know where I am. I get out pretty quickly. Chapter four, I walk down the same street. There's a deep in the hole in the sidewalk. I go around it. Chapter five, I take a new street. You know, it's just like, it's, it's not doing the same thing over and over and only winning the battle half the time.
It's taking a whole new path. And so part of that last step that we see biblically over and over again is you're gonna need to be, need to be submissive to a group of guys that says, uh, we're not. Everyone is able to have these things and assemble on these things. It's like, I remember playing basketball in high school, and if you got two free throws, my coach, Andy Hicks, you would shoot one if you, if you went short and hit the front of the rim and bounced back at you, he would just yell, don't miss the same shot.
The same way twice, right? Like if you go long now you go long. If you go right, you go right, you go. But you better put some legs into it. 'cause if that comes off the front of the iron, again, I'm gonna get really mad at you. Don't miss the same shot twice. And that's really the aim in this idea of a clear path.
Repentance, is to say, um, if your, if your sin was, uh, your phone, give us your phone. If your sin was, um, this. It was the bar. You don't go there anymore. If your sin was drugs, you, you don't know anyone who sells them anymore. You, you've lost your card. We take away your license like it's us loving you enough to say these things need to be stripped away so that you can remain healthy.
Right. You don't, you don't hand a heroin addict after they get out of counseling back their old set. You don't. It's not what you do. You need to do something different so you don't do the same thing again. And I think the board's been pretty clear on, Hey, here's the things we're gonna change so that we don't have this play out again.
Maybe Caleb, you can speak a little bit to what that looks like and then a little bit about how they've implemented that in, in Jared's life. Yeah. Um, I think Jared's kinda established that affirmation was some of the, the game is like he, he was really struggling at times with insecurity and then. Being on a stage or being on a platform or meeting people as he traveled, could feed, um, feed that affirmation need.
And so for us as a board, we're processing right now what that looks like for him in the future and how we establish good patterns for me. And I'm not saying this is a rule for everyone, like, but it's, I just don't travel alone. Um, there are, there are certain patterns that I know about myself and I, and things that I need to prepare for.
And so for Jared too, like we're. Talking through some of that, like what does social media look like? What does travel look like? Um, how do we set him up to not go down the same street again and again? I don't think when you talk about like Billy Graham style rules, I don't know that everyone has to follow the same set of standards, but we're kind of tailoring the standards to Jared's particular struggles.
And so, um, but with that too, I think Jared's been uber submissive and I think Jared's big fears are, um, not being a president. Dad not being a dad who's faithful and honest. And, and so for Jared, his entire posture has been like, help me guys think this through. Like, let's think this through. Well, what repentance really looks like and let's put it in place so that, um, I can finish my race and also honor my kids and honor my wife.
And, um, so again, I've been super proud. But I think Jared, for you, like you would acknowledge that in the seasons to come, like your ministry and the way you interact online, like all that might be a little bit different. Did you wanna say anything about that? Yeah, I mean, I just, I, I have no problem admitting like I was an af I have been an affirmation addict, you know, since I was young.
And so I, I have looked for places where somebody will pat me on the back and that is a, that is somewhere that is, uh, a direct result of a wound where I felt like I was not enough, where I, I did not have value. And so if somebody said, you're valuable. Um, that really stroked an ego for me that really soothed that wound.
And I just don't wanna do that anymore. I don't, I I have no desire to go to soothe that wound in that way. Um, and so, uh, yeah, I think traveling would give me an opportunity to me, I, it could be anyone. I sat next to the plane, I. Sometimes that would be women that I sat next to on a plane, and I would just get in a conversation with them and make them feel like, oh, he's really smart, or he's really funny, or he's really intelligent, or whatever.
And that would make me feel good being on a stage. Um, this is why I've said I don't wanna speak for the next year. I just wanna be off a stage. Like I don't want any spotlight on me because I don't want people to stand up there and make me f whether it's right or wrong or whether you guys gimme permission to do it or not.
I just personally don't want to have go back. Right now, I don't feel comfortable being in a place where people, that, that wound can be sued in that way. Um, you know, I don't do any like social media. I'm not looking at like book reviews or podcast comments. Like, I'm probably going to post and ghost when I come back because I'm con, I was constantly looking for like, oh, what do people think?
What do people think? What do people think? And I, I just, I'm committed to not living like that anymore. So, um, and it's been really like, I haven't seen social media in four months and it's been the, like the greatest four months of my life. And I think the big push here is like living with the revelation of.
Like, I know he loves me. Not what do people think about me, but I'm just really confident that the, the substitutionary atonement of Christ cleansed me and I'm his son. Yeah. I'm the son of the father, and I think that's been really beautiful to watch you do too. It's just going like, no, I'm gonna get my affirmation in the scriptures and in the place of prayer and in my relationship with the father has been profound and beautiful and authentic.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it. As you're thinking through that stuff, Jared, if I'm a dad, tired listener and you're kind of speaking directly to me, uh, to kind of help summarize a little bit of what we've been talking about or as you're coming back into it, what is this, what do you feel like this next season for you in relationship to dad?
Tired or. What's really on your heart right now? Or, or where do you, as you're casting a vision for us as a team and as a kind of a global enterprise, coming back from what you just experienced and obviously wanting to do so in a healthy way, in a way that's probably a, a bit more incremental than, all right, starting tomorrow, it's all in.
But, um, from what you, how would anything. How would those, uh, motifs change? What would a what, what mantra has changed for you or what are those things that you're kind of committed to coming back in and going, you're gonna experience a little bit of this being different and dad tired, and here's why. I think, you know, we, I.
We're gonna talk about this as a board for a while, um, or for the next little bit so we can get clarity on it. But in my, my heart, what I'm seeing is like, I don't care. I told the board this, like, I don't care about the next million downloads. I care about like the next 10 guys who are finding Jesus in really real ways, in healing, in really real ways.
And so part of, I think why I was trying to like for dad tired, like, let's go ba let's, what do we need to do to get more guys at the retreat, more downloads? What do we, you know, how can we reach more, more, more? Uh, part of that, if I'm honest with myself, is like. It's easy to kind of keep people at a distance and nobody really knows me.
You know, it's just like a, just bigger podcast, bigger stuff, and nobody really knows me. But now it's like I, I really wanna just get to know guys personally. I want to create a ministry where guys can actually find real deep relationships. I have some ideas about how we can do that. Where guys like, because I know there are guys listening right now who feel like, uh, nobody really knows me.
And if they did, they wouldn't like me. I know that for a fact. And there are guys who are dealing with sin, their own secret sins and their compartmentalizations. And for those guys, I would just say like, bro, there's um, there is deep healing that, that Christ wants to offer you and it's gonna come through real relationships where people actually do know you and love you and point you back to the gospel.
And so I'm just trying to think through like how we can do that as a ministry. So. Uh, I think over the next couple weeks and months, I'll probably just process with you guys about the stuff I've learned and the stuff I'm learning, um, about what it looks like to start to step into recovery and healing and honesty and live a life that's integrated.
Um, and then as a ministry, I think we'll probably move towards more like discipleship stuff where we're working with guys more personally and just kind of, instead of just like content producing, but like really discipleship stuff. Yeah, like, uh, it's something I'm talking about in the sermon this weekend.
It's by John Newton. I thought this like applies really well in this situation. He writes, uh, I'm not what I ought to be. But I'm not, and I'm not what I wanna be. I'm not what I hope to be in another world, but still, I'm not what I once used to be and by the grace of God, I am what I am. Mm-hmm. I feel like that's, that, that's, I feel like it's always been a little bit the mantra of dad tired.
Um, I remember even the first time I ever talked to you just saying, I'm really about just. People meeting Jesus in a new and deeper way and having that transform them. So it's all under the guise of biblical masculinity and fatherhood. But all it is at its simple core is you'll be a better dad if you're a better man, and you're only gonna be a better man if Jesus gets a hold of more of your life.
Like you're not, you're, you're not gonna be a, a better husband unless God gets a stronger hold on your heart. And I, I think you're even in all this, you're modeling it for us. Um. I think if your kids are listening to this, uh, just from one man to another, I've got, you know, I've got five kids and, um, everyone who's listening probably already knows that, but just as you if, if they're listening, like just your dad is a Yeah.
He's, he's changed more lives than you could possibly understand and he's a better man than, than you're probably gonna understand. And as a guy who deals with men all the time and has gone to these retreats and seen these things, uh, you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who's made a deeper impact on a personal level with more people, even in the midst of things that he's been struggling with and everything.
But you should just be really proud of your dad. He is a, he's a really good dude. I just want you to know that, but Amen. I'll just add that, you know, I've been beating the drum of like, to some extent holiness and discipleship is learning to be a friend is learning to be in people's corner. Confess you're sin when you're wrong.
Champion people live in selflessness. And I just would add that like Jared is a solid friend and as a, as a, you know, 30 something dad like you guys with lots of kids, like that's rare to have somebody who really cares and is honest and willing to be vulnerable. And, and so I would just add that like the, the friendship, the transparency, the loyalty, uh, that Jared walks in is beautiful and I'm thankful my life is better because of it.
Well, gee sucks too. I mean, I always say he sucks on a big secret. Yeah. Dang, you guys, I'm so, you know, I know this is like, I always feel weird in these kinds of moments 'cause I'm like, we're a ministry and we have to like, uh, you know, there's necess like we have to be professional, but I'm just, you my friends and I just love you.
Like if we, if we weren't recording any podcast here, I just, um, I just love you guys so much and you guys have, um.
Yeah, you've just been really faithful friends to me and, uh, I could, everything else could go away and if I just still had you as friends, I'd be so thankful. So thank you guys for, and I know the guys are, the dad's tire guys are super, super thankful for you guys stepping in. So, yeah, man, what's that movie that the, uh, uh, it's a wonderful life.
He is no failure who has friends and Jared, you do man, you've got friends and, and. We love you. And at one point it seemed like you weren't gonna come back to dad tired or you were questioning it and it was funny 'cause one of my thoughts were like, yay, then I can convince him to move to California and hang out with me more.
It didn't work out. I'll get you next time, but nothing would convince me to move to California. Um, you know what? Um. I would just, I was gonna say too, Jared, you used to always, like, I remember the podcast where you specifically said, if people know me, they wouldn't love me. And I would just say again like, nah, we polygraph know you now and, um, love you and are so thankful for you.
Yeah. And Layla does, you know what I mean? Like Yeah. If there's someone who, you know, she just walked by before we. We started the podcast and it just sounds like you guys are in a really great place. And any anyone who's even questioning or curious or anything, it's like if Layla is sitting there and love, like, who are you?
You know, like if, if Layla's sitting here going, I know it. I've seen it. I, I experienced it. I, um, I think that's our, our responsibility then is by the grace of God to go, like, what a cool place to be. I, I, I've talked about this at my church recently, like I don't wanna be a place. Where we practice grace, when grace makes sense because the, the definition of grace is, it needs to be a little bit ridiculous.
It needs to be at some level that everyone's eyes like open and perk up and go, like, that's a different, that that's the only kind of ministry I'm interested in is one that's practicing that sort of radical grace. And not that anything that you did required this like radical thing, but I think your grace for yourself, like your own self mercy and your own self forgiveness has been more of a struggle than it has been for any of us to go like.
Of course man, like this doesn't change the way I see you, but I'm excited as you continue to grow and recognizing that it's not the way that it doesn't change the way God sees you. And it doesn't make you any less of a friend or a man or anything or a dad and, um, probably have more respect for you than I even did before.
So just, yeah, grateful for you man. Grateful do, and I think all of us, I speak on behalf of Dad Tired when I say we appreciate your it. How easy would've been to crawl in a hole? Or say, screw it, I'm gonna go do something else, or I'm gonna go sell cars. And not that there's anything wrong with selling cars, you'd be good at it, but, um, that would've been a lot more cowardly and probably a lot more simple.
So you just keep choosing the, the hard work that love requires. I'm proud of you. Thanks bro. Yeah. I do wanna say too, it's kind of exciting like we, um. I, I've been pretty removed from all da tired stuff, logistics wise, but I do know that we are going to do the DA Tired retreat in September, and, uh, I'm pretty sure you guys are committed to that with me.
And so for all you guys listening, um, I'm excited just to be there. I'll, I'll probably share more of my story in more depth, you know, at the retreat, um, and let these guys handle the teaching, but so. I'm just excited to hang out with the dad's tired guys again and kind of wanna tease that out 'cause I want the guys to be part of that.
But yeah, anyway, back in there. Cool, man. Well, thanks guys for, for this. And Jared, uh, we love you and we're grateful for you and excited to see what we have next. And you, you're pro, you've gotta be tired of hearing Caleb and I talk after, you know what I mean? Everyone is listening. Hear myself made through.
You did it. You sat through. I'll take it from here. Appreciate you guys stepping in. I'll take Alright. Love you guys. Appreciate you love.