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In the Hidden Money podcast, you'll learn how you can legally use the tax code to your financial advantage. There’s wealth inside the tax code. Taxes aren’t the enemy.
Most people hate taxes (and pay more than they should). But when you view taxes only as an evil expense, you miss out on legal ways to grow your wealth. Unlock the secrets to saving tax and building wealth with the Hidden Money Podcast! 🎧💰 Hosted by Mike Pine and Kevin Schneider.
Mike Pine: Who is Kevin Schneider
and what makes him who he is, and
why is he a superpower behind what
Revo Taxpayer Advocacy provides?
Kevin Schneider: I had a client come to
me, a very well-known client, and before
I even signed an employment agreement
with you, I didn't say, "Hey, you need
to speak to this," like my current firm.
I was like, "You need to speak to Mike."
So I got you on a phone with this guy
before I even started, and you're like,
"Hey, what if we did a defined benefit,
cash balance plan, all this other stuff?"
And so we started implementing.
That was hundreds of thousands
of dollars of tax savings that
I wouldn't have thought of.
Mike Pine: But this is Kevin Schneider.
He is half of Revo Taxpayer Advocacy,
half of the Hidden Money podcast, and he
is at least half, if not more of why we
can help you change your life with taxes.
Video: Welcome to this episode
of the Hidden Money Podcast.
Two weeks in a row we're
not focused on tax.
I'm uncomfortable about that,
but the powers that be, i.e.
my partner, our marketing director,
they say, "Let people know who you
are, and then they might get behind
you with your awesome tax strategies."
I don't understand that 'cause I'm, I'mâ¦
well, I'm me.
Tax should be your only focus in life.
But we're getting personal here.
This week, we're gonna talk about
Mike Pine: my partner, my business
partner at Revo Taxpayer Advocacy and
the Hidden Money Podcast, as well as many
other, um, ventures we've got going on.
We got too
Kevin Schneider: That you got going
on that you dragged me through.
You have business ventures, and
I, I'm like, "I'll do it with you.
Let's go."
Mike Pine: Okay.
But my partner in many, many-
I helped with- Yes, you did.
I did.
Our building.
I know.
Which, whichâ¦
Yeah, now our air condition's
leaking and, yeah, anyways.
Who is Kevin Schneider and what
makes him who he is, and why
is he a superpower behind what
Revo Taxpayer Advocacy provides?
And let me just point this out
before we get into personal stuff.
What Revo Taxpayer Advocacy provides
is a revolutionary change in
paradigm of what tax should mean
to you, income tax specifically.
Most people's biggest expense item on
their budget each year is not their
mortgage, it's not dinner, it's not
dating, it's not their car payment.
Kids?
It's tax.
Oh, yeah.
Well, it could be kids
Kevin Schneider: if you have- Kids and tax
Mike Pine: you have girls- Yeah
so your kids are more expensive than mine.
Mine are boys.
Um, but yeah, that's what we do, is
we help people change their facts so
they can change their tax, but I'm
not supposed to be talking about that.
This is all about
Kevin Schneider: Kevin
If you don't wanna put the
spotlight, we can talk that.
It's fine.
It's
Mike Pine: you drilled me last podcast.
Well- I'm drilling
Kevin Schneider: knew this time.
Okay.
Mike Pine: just saving the best for later.
Okay.
I'm gonna get you comfortable.
Uh-huh.
Kevin, I met you at an interview.
You came and interviewed with us 'cause,
um, it was a, a LinkedIn recruiter
reached out to you and said, "Hey,
there's an opening here for tax manager."
You were a supervisor at that point
at a pretty big regional firm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, what made you decide to take
a pay cut to join this firm?
Kevin Schneider: Yeah, I wasn't
even looking for a job, honestly.
I was grinding every day, and all
the other CPAs out there, y'all
probably know how this works.
It's during busy season, I was, I was an
assistant tax manager at this position.
Oh.
And yeah.
And, um, so I had a team, and then
I had my work, so I was doing both,
and I was preparing, reviewing,
and also making sure my team hit
their goals and everything else.
And, um, all while meeting with clients,
and I had a young family at the time, so
it was like all these balls were being
juggled, and my minimum hour charge
goal there was probably seventy-five.
I think that's probably where I was
whenever this LinkedIn recruiter reached
out to me 'cause I wasn't even honestly
looking, and I didn't even check LinkedIn.
It was really weird.
I was just likeâ¦
It was probably at night.
I don't even remember the specifics, but
just logging into LinkedIn and, "Hey, um,
your, your work, um, resume looks good.
I have a great position here
in Keller," and I was living
in, uh, Haslet at the time.
And I was like, "Yeah, I'm open to it."
And then you and I had a phone call, came
in, had dinner with, um, had dinner with
you, and you just told the, the mission
and passion behind what you were starting.
Um, and you're like, "Man, I want
to revolutionize this industry,
and this is how I wanna do it.
I wanna, I wanna hire good people.
I wanna provide good service.
I want a tax plan.
I wanna do these things."
Then you had this, um, Indian, um, in
India, you had that mission, um, Manoj
over there, and you were doing some
missionary work out in India, and I was
like, "Man, this guy's a good dude,"
and I just wanted to come aboard.
And I was like, "Man, this is great.
It's not this big regional firm
where I'm like kind of a number."
It's like I can actually impact people,
and I have authority to impact people.
And I was like, "Okay, well, here's
what I'm getting paid, and here's
my bonus and here's everything else.
Here's my benefits I'm getting.
Wh- where, where, where's
Mike Pine: my gap?"
My wife and I almost fell out of
our couch when you told us that
because it was so far out of our
Kevin Schneider: Yes, and so I went up to
them, I was like, "Here's where I'm at."
And I was like, "I'm not trying
to make it a, a jump here.
A lateral move would be great."
And, um, that wasn't the case.
I mean, at the, at the time, like we
kind of got into that the last podcast,
the firm was amending all these returns.
You were just-- you were
bootstrapping at the time.
You were trying to find good people,
and this seat was important, and you
needed someone to take hold of the tax
department so that you could do different
tasks and everything in the firm.
And so you came back to me and rebuttaled.
You're like, "All right, hear me out.
I can't get you that, but
here's what I'm gonna get you."
And it was under, it was- Significant
⦠23 somewhat, per 20%, um, pay
Mike Pine: for me.
And-
Kevin Schneider: And- Yeah, I would
say ⦠and I was even talking to myâ¦
Like, it was just a hard step of
faith, but after prayer and cons-
I was just like, "You know, it's
not about, it's not always about
that guaranteed compensation."
I was like, "There's a future here.
There's something different here."
And I took that risk, and that's why I-
when I came on board, I-- my career has
definitely changed since I started with
you in 2018 because I knew every client.
I-- every tax return went through my
hands, whether a staff prepared it or not.
I was meeting with the clients.
We were tag-teaming, uh, sales calls.
Every client, I was just your wing man,
like learned a lot from you and grew
and, uh, I knew all the clients and their
strategies we're implementing, and I
knew their, I knew their tax returns like
the back of my hand by the third year.
Like it's just, it's these
clients were consistent.
You didn't have a lot of turnover.
You kept clients happy.
You just needed more clients, and
you needed to get your word out.
Um, so I got to know these clients,
and that's been the hardest thing
I think in the transition is
losing that day-to-day work, but
Mike Pine: knowing that- And
Kevin Schneider: Those relationships
⦠in the relationships of like, you know
the clients and what's in their business,
but as you get into a leadership role
or a partner role, your duties change.
We, we can't do that work because
the, the firm has to grow and scale
and allow that opportunity for other
managers and other seniors to have that
opportunity with clients, and that's
Mike Pine: okay.
Well, I think it was a divine
appointment for both of us, and
I thank God that you joined.
Um- Yeah ⦠we're so much better for it.
Yeah.
And you make me better at my
job, and I'd like to think the
same, um, the other way around.
Kevin, there's some interesting,
interesting facts about you that
I've come to know over the years.
Um, let's start at the beginning.
Well, not the
Kevin Schneider: very beginning
I
Mike Pine: I was born.
Yeah, I know.
You were born, um, like way
after I was, you were born.
But, uh, why the heck--
You were a baseball player.
That was big for you in high school.
Um, you-- What, what, what
got you into accounting, man?
Kevin Schneider: Well, I, so
I did really well in baseball.
Um, in my senior year, I was the
varsity, I, I was batting cleanup.
I think my batting average was .465,
and we were a big school, so
I was nearly batting .500.
I led our, led our district in
doubles and all these other things.
My defense was good.
I had these long, lanky arms.
I could, I
Mike Pine: throw it 300,
350- You do
Kevin Schneider: feet.
You have long, lanky arms.
Yeah, I could throw it.
And so I started-- I wanted to pursue
that in college, and so I actually,
I traveled to a bunch of junior
colleges as a stepping stone, and
just going out to those towns, I was
like, "Man, there's nothing here."
It's like these JUCOs, what you do is
you play ball, and you drink, and you
dip, and that's, that's just what you do.
And I was just like,
Mike Pine: You dipped?
Kevin Schneider: Did you dip?
No.
No, I didn't.
That's what, that's what you
Mike Pine: would do there.
You've never used
Kevin Schneider: tobacco of any
Mike Pine: habitually?
Kevin Schneider: I have used it,
but I've never- Oh, just used it.
No, I wasn't, that wasn't, I
never did it, um, like routinely.
So going out there, I was just like,
"This is not interesting to me."
And, and then pie in the sky,
I was like, "If I don't get a
D1 offer, I ain't playing" kind
of thing, you know, arrogance.
And- ⦠D1, D1 offer never came.
And so I was like, "You know,
I'm just not gonna pursue this."
Didn't wanna really take that risk because
it's a hard life going up through the
sports ranks, especially in baseball.
Baseball is very popular.
There's a lot of farm systems.
There's a lot of JUCOs out
there, and it is a grind.
Like, it's a long season.
You gotta work your way up, and
it, it's a, it's just a hard life.
And I was just like, "Man, I just
don't see my long term being here."
So I went to TCU.
Um, I actually went to
TCU to be a youth pastor.
I went with, to my church at the time,
and, and I was just like, "Hey, I,
you know, I wanna do this vocation."
They sponsored me to
Mike Pine: go to TCU.
Kevin Schneider: They're
like- To be a youth pastor.
To be, to be a pastor, yeah.
And they said, "Okay, here's theâ¦
We'll pay for half your
tuition," and this is at TCU.
They said, "We'll pay for half your
tuition, but you gotta come back and
work for the church when you graduate,"
and all these other stipulations.
I was like, "Cool, I'll do that."
Get to my freshman year, my
first religion course Bombed it.
Completely failed it.
Like you thâ¦
You would think you would know it.
Um, you're like, "Come on, I know--
This is some- this is a big part of me.
This is something part of my life.
Surely I can pass this."
But it's going through genealogy,
it's going through actual historical
Mike Pine: context
of the Bible.
Kevin Schneider: the
Bible- How did you do?
ev- all this stuff, and I'm just glazed.
I was like, "Can
Mike Pine: we just like
Kevin Schneider: talk
about Jesus and stuff?
Like, what is this?"
So got a D in it, so pivoted,
so had to- Goodbye, Christian.
I know.
So lost my grant.
So that was a h- that was a fun
conversation with my parents.
I'm like, "You know that
expensive tuition I have?
I'm losing half of it as a
sponsor, so what do I do?"
Mike Pine: And so I just-
And the reason is because,
Kevin Schneider: you know, practicing-
I can't do it ⦠a religion, basically.
Mike Pine: Yeah.
And so,
Kevin Schneider: yeah, that was fun.
Um, so after doing that, I
just applied for a ton of
scholarships, just whatever I canâ¦
If, if there was a scholarship
out there, I applied for it.
But my parents, thankfully, they,
they helped me through my undergrad,
got out with no debt on my undergrad.
My master's degree, that was all on
me, so I had to take out debt on that.
Um, they're like, "Hey, we got you
and your sister through four years.
You're on your own after that.
If you wanna be a doctor, cool, go do it.
If you wanna be a CPA and you need
that extra year, cool, go do it.
It's not on my dime," kind of thing.
So, um, it was a, it was a good time.
Really enjoyed it there.
The business school there was really good.
And actually how I landed as a, an
accounting degree was my roommates at the
time, his name was Bob, and I don't know
where Bob is these days, but me and Bob
were playing Xbox, having some drinks.
And so in college, it's like
you got your freshman year and
you got your sophomore year.
It's all generic 101
Mike Pine: stuff.
It's like every-
Kevin Schneider: it's
stuff we all have to take.
All your electives.
Yeah.
So I didn't have to really think about it.
But then when you get into the
business school, it's like, "Hey,
do you wanna be an accountant?
Do you wanna be in finance?
Do you wanna be in marketing?
Do you-- What do you wanna do now?
You gotta
Mike Pine: specialize and hit something."
Kevin Schneider: And that day
was- How many problems now?
I was just like, "I don't know what I'm
doing," and so procrastinated, I guess.
But it-- the next day, I had to put in
like, what ar- what path do I wanna go?
So I'm just hanging out with my, my
buddy Bob, and we were just good friends.
I was like, "Man, Bob,
what are you doing?"
Like, "What are you doing?"
He's like, "Oh, accounting, finance.
It's a double major.
You know, those, those overlap.
You could do accounting, you could do
finance, and it's really you take 15
more hours and you get double majored."
I was like, "All right, cool.
I'll do that."
And so literally the next day,
me and Bob went up there and I'm
like, "Accounting, finance," and
Mike Pine: then started my
path down the accounting road.
Bob, if you ever happen to see this,
I wanna thank you very much for
turning Kevin towards accounting.
Um-
Kevin Schneider: Yeah, it was- Otherwise
Mike Pine: wouldn't be here.
Yeah.
And, and I'm actually glad that
you got a D on your religion class.
We actually have this similarity.
Um, when I was first born again, I'd, I
wanted to give up the vocational world.
I wanted to get into ministry, and
I decided to go get my master's at
DTS, Dallas Theological Seminary.
Um, and I took first two classes
'cause I was also working, and the
first one was Herm- my first semester,
hermeneutics was one class, and, um,
Video: oh,
Mike Pine: Wayne Grudem's Systematic
Theology was our textbook.
Systematic Theology and Hermeneutics.
And I was all excited 'cause I
was on fire for Jesus, you know?
And after, like, the fourth week of,
like, I remember in one of those classes,
I can't remember which one, they give
you one verse and they're likeâ¦
And it was 13 words in the verse,
and they're like, um, "Give me 25
observations about this verse."
I'm like, "Dude, there
ain't but 13 words."
Yeah.
And then I turn that homework
assignment in, and he's like, "Now
give us 50 more observations."
Video: Like
Mike Pine: really?
And after about a month of this,
I actually went to my professor.
I was like, "Can we talk about Jesus?"
Like, what is this?
He's like, "This is whereâ¦
This is all about Jesus, but
you gotta understand scripture
and be able to be a theologian."
And, and, and I was like,
"Wow, this is not my calling.
I just want Jesus."
That's the same thing I had.
So yeah.
I, I, I dropped it
Kevin Schneider: before I failed it.
I really don't know
See, I stuck through it
'cause I couldn't drop it.
Yeah.
I already
Mike Pine: paid for it.
Classes were expensive.
Books were expensive.
Well, your church paid
Kevin Schneider: for it?
I
Mike Pine: of it.
I paid for all of it, and I dropped it.
Um- ⦠but yeah.
So we're not theologians.
No.
But we love Jesus.
We know enough.
And we serve Him, um, as best as we can.
All right.
So you chose accounting, and after you
graduated, what was your first job?
Kevin Schneider: My first job was at
a firm in Highland Park in Dallas.
Uh, they came on to our campus
and just did interviews.
That's how they typically do.
The firms come to the
campus, and all theâ¦
You justâ¦
They have all these interview rooms.
You interview with the Big Four,
PricewaterhouseCoopers, Deloitte,
and then they have small guys there.
You know, the re- and then
they have the regional ones.
And so this was about a probably a
40-person firm based out in Dallas.
I started my career in the audit field.
So yeah, so that, uh, for all the
non-accounts out there, you have
accounting and ta- or you have
accounting and audit on one hand,
and then you have tax on the other.
They're way different skill sets, way
different industries, way different, um,
Mike Pine: uh, jobs.
Way different.
Kevin Schneider: It's just- Complete
different- ⦠mindsets, everything.
Um,
Mike Pine: even though CPAs perform
both, um- You're not allowed
Kevin Schneider: to think outside
the box in audit You can't.
You have strict procedures
you have to go down.
If you think outside the
box, you get in trouble.
So I, I actually loved audit.
I loved the
Mike Pine: travel aspect.
Um, you know, I was single,
and- That's something
Kevin Schneider: That's
what I just learned.
You loved audit.
I did.
Oh my God.
Well, get this.
So this is so stupid.
This is the ember- You
Mike Pine: you, I don't
even know if you know this.
Video: So-
Mike Pine: That's
Kevin Schneider: That's what I'm
talking about ⦠move, move to
Dallas, got in a high-rise apartment.
I was probably making, my first job,
it was like 48, 50 grand a year.
That was big back then.
It was, but my apartment
was probably 1,500 a month.
My cousin had a Corvette, and it was a
Mike Pine: red Corvette,
Kevin Schneider: Z06,
Mike Pine: And
I was- Was it a little
Kevin Schneider: red Corvette?
It wasâ¦
And thatâ¦
Well.
Mike Pine: hoo, hoo.
Kevin Schneider: It was a nice car.
And, um, I was driving a
Camry at the time, and I was
like, "I got my big boy job.
I'm in a big boy city.
You know what I'm gonna do?
I'm
Mike Pine: gonna buy a Corvette.
No.
So I went and I bought a Corvette.
You?
Yeah.
Kevin
Kevin Schneider: Snyder.
Yes.
Mr.
Budget Conscious.
Makes zero, zero sense.
So I'm living in a high-rise
in Dallas with a Corvette
Mike Pine: with
Kevin Schneider: first job, and
living paycheck to paycheck.
So how accountancy is that?
Um, but
Mike Pine: you're young.
Like, I was 20, 23, 24.
Were you at least maxing
out your 401employer's
Kevin Schneider: match?
No, I wasn't maxing out retirement.
Wow.
I needed the cash, man.
I had, I had a high ri-
I had all this stuff.
The cool thing about my apartment, so
it was off Ross Avenue in Dallas, and
the thing that drew me here was the
Dallas Aquarium was across the street.
Myâ¦
I requested, and I lived there for
three years, 'cause I requested, they,
this high-rise had these big windows
in the living room, and I was like,
"I want my windows to be near the
penguin tank," 'cause the penguins were
on the exterior of the aquarium, so
you could see the penguins swimming.
So when I got that apartment, you
can open my windows, and I was
downtown, and you had the penguin
tank literally 20 feet from me.
It's like this big glass tank.
Mike Pine: You see 'em, you know,
feed the penguins and stuff.
It was, it was cool.
I had no idea you had a
proclivity for penguins.
No.
Wow, and a Corvette.
So what happened to the Corvette?
Kevin Schneider: Eventually,
uh, got married, had
Mike Pine: kids.
So when you have kids-
Kevin Schneider: Corvettes
don't really work.
Mike Pine: Those little bucket
Kevin Schneider: seats
don't fit the little ones.
No.
They're not veryâ¦
The safety features on the
Corvette are not there.
So sold that, and I got a Ford Freestyle.
'Cause I was, I was learning
the error of my way.
So a Ford Freestyle, it's like a
hatchback, and this thing was bad.
It was bad.
It was a beater.
But I think everyone has
to go through a beater.
It's like a rite of passage.
So paid cash for it, um, bought a house.
I mean, traditional, now it's traditional
CPA stuff, married, kids, beater
car, job, all the things happen now.
So my life went from high-rise and
Corvette and all this stuff to this.
And no
Mike Pine: penguins.
And no more penguins.
I'm sorry.
So, but that's the path of maturity.
Okay.
So what turned you towards,
from the dark side of audit
to the beautiful world of tax?
Kevin Schneider: fired from my job.
Mike Pine: You got fired?
Kevin Schneider: You got fired?
You didn't bring this up
in the interview, man.
In au- Well, I, I didn't leave
that firm to go work with you.
Okay.
And I got fired from audit, so.
But it wasn't, it wasn't because
of any work-related stuff.
Mike Pine: It's
me being an idiot with friends
Okay
Kevin Schneider: Again-
Mike Pine: Oh, that's a story I wanna
Kevin Schneider: way stupid stuff.
Can you share that story?
No.
Mike Pine: that somewhere
I can't go on this?
That's, that's in an Unleashed-
Oh ⦠whenever we get that going again.
Just so you know, we have our own building
that's getting built out right now.
Kevin's one venture he got me into
was buying an office building, and
I'm still not sure I appreciate that.
You will.
But we're moving in, and it's got
our own studio, so we will start
back our Hidden Money Unleashed
episodes in the next few months.
Kevin Schneider: Hopefully so, yeah That's
Mike Pine: our first topic.
How did you get fired?
How I get fired.
What did you do to get fired?
Yeah.
Kevin Schneider: So I actually got-
So stay tuned- ⦠like and subscribe
because this could be a good story.
It's a, it's a story.
It is a story.
Uh, so yeah, I got fired from that job.
And the guy who fired me, the
partner who fired me, he goes, "You
know, Kevin, you're so talented.
You're very good with people.
You could be a partner at a very big
firm one day, but it's just not here."
Hmm.
And that's how he let me go.
And I was just like,
Mike Pine: "Ah."
So he-
Kevin Schneider: something
Mike Pine: in me
Kevin Schneider: loved me, but
because of what happened, I had to go.
Oh.
I can't wait to hear this story.
Yeah.
So, uh, from there, I
landed at a smallerâ¦
So I was living in Grapevine, that's where
I bought my first house, and so there
was a, a smaller firm, not a bigger firm.
It was a family-owned firm
over in Grapevine, and so I
actually linked up with them.
I did- I still did audit there, but
then, um, I also did the tax returns.
So they were small enough to where
I'd do the field work from 8:00
AM to 5:00 PM-ish, travel back.
This is before you could remote in, so
you'd go do field work during the day and
then come back at night and do the taxes.
So I was working, I mean, 12, 13 hours.
I mean, it's a grind.
But I would- in tax season, you
gotta get the financials, then
you gotta do the tax return.
So I'm doing both.
I really love the tax portion, and that's
when it started clicking is 'cause I'm
like, "Hey, what if we did this, this?"
Like, kind of the same aha moment you had.
It's like compliance and auditing
doesn't really bring much value.
It's keeping the bank safe.
It's keeping the investors safe,
which there is value there, but it's
like I wanna save my clients money.
And what they're most concerned
about, you could do all the
good audit work you could do.
You could do your tick and tie your
work papers, everything's in order.
Everything is just tied
up, buttoned up, and great.
Client doesn't care.
But when they get to the tax return,
if you come up with a strategy that
saves them hundreds of thousands of
dollars, you're their favorite person.
Hmm.
So there's a
Mike Pine: selfish part of it
Kevin Schneider: where you're
like, you can almost be a hero.
Like you're looking
Mike Pine: in, at these
tax situations- You
can be a hero ⦠trying to
piece things together, and
they're like, "Thank you."
Kevin Schneider: And
it's- Well, that changes
Mike Pine: a single fact pattern in their
Kevin Schneider: Yeah
You were just thinking outside of the box
Yeah, and so that's when it
started, 'cause you could do
all the field work you want.
I never left a client's office doing
audit work and them be like, "Hey,
thanks for, thanks for asking all
those questions and doing all that
testing over my AR and being a pain
in my butt for about three weeks."
They don't want you there.
And so that's when it started
pivoting more to the tax side.
Went from that small family firm
to a bigger regional firm again,
so, you know, got a pay raise.
Went there and then, um, really started
taking the tax to the next level.
Then that's when I started really
competing with my other peers, 'cause then
at that point, I was about probably eight
years experience, seven, eight years.
So I-- It's kinda like you
know what you're doing, but
you're still not confident.
But I could handle small
business in my sleep.
And so I had a lot of small
business clients, and so I
just had good client feedback.
I was doing good strategies for
them, prepping things timely.
My communication was good,
so I was really going high.
Um, but then it was costing my life.
Like, that's when I got a divorce and
all this things 'cause I was working, um,
75 hours a week with a newborn kid or a
young kid, and it was just, it was a mess.
And so, uh, that's why when we started
kind of taking this firm out, we're
like, "Hey, we are not gonna repeat
the same mistakes we had, where
we're gonna work staff to death."
Like, we all have families, but we
Mike Pine: still work.
Yeah.
But we're also respectful
of life for our people too.
Yeah.
It's surprising to see, like I emphasize
with our team, 'cause right now in
the, in the heat of tax season, they're
working 50 hours a week, which is
the max that we ask them for, right?
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, it's hard.
Like, I don't know how we
ha- how we survived the--
Kevin Schneider: It's just
what it was at the time.
You don't even think about it
'cause your, your other coworkers
Mike Pine: are doing it
Kevin Schneider: It's like
you're in the trenches
Mike Pine: with your teams.
Kevin Schneider: Um, your spouse has just
Mike Pine: understood.
But you- I don't know.
But, no.
But it's insane.
Well, I didn't have a spouse,
and yours didn't either, so.
Yeah.
Um, Lord willing, that'll be on our--
We'll be held to account if our team's
spouses don't get to see their family.
And we beli- we run the firm that way.
At what point in your career did you
start realizing, "Wait a second, the
way they taught me in school, the
way we learned on the CPA exam to
do tax was really just check boxes."
IRS says, "Do this if you have that."
Uh, even if it's, if that has a
big breadth of what that really is.
At what point did you learn To think
outside the box versus do what 99% of us
CPAs are taught to do and do most of our
Kevin Schneider: Yeah.
Mike Pine: Yeah.
Definitely.
Kevin Schneider: honestly, when I
started working with you, it started
getting more gas on the fire.
It was.
Yeah.
So when I was at that other regional
firm and I was doing those taxes
and I was the assistant tax manager,
um, I would do small business
stuff like the traditional stuff.
"Hey, have, have you thought about
Augusta Roll, paying your kids?
Have you thought about
these types of things?"
And we implement those things, and
it saves, it saves money, right?
It-- But it's not moving the
needle like to the other end.
Um, when I started working with
you, you came up with like, "Hey,
Mike Pine: what if we did it likeâ¦"
I, before
Kevin Schneider: even started with you, I
had a client come to me, a very well-known
client, and before I even signed an
employment agreement with you, I goâ¦
I didn't say, "Hey, you need to
speak to this," like my current firm.
I was like, "You need to speak to Mike."
So I got you on a phone with this guy
before I even started, and you're like,
"Hey, what if we did a, a defined benefit,
cash balance plan, all this other stuff?"
And I was-- And so we
started implementing.
I was like, that was hundreds of
thousands of dollars of tax savings
that I wouldn't have thought of, but
just I knew and I trusted you and
respected you out of the gate, and you
came up with the, all these strategies.
And then learning how to structure
things and partnership tax, and that's
when the pieces started putting more
into place, I would say at that moment
Mike Pine: in time, just working with
Kevin Schneider: closely in,
Mike Pine: um-
Wow
2018.
Yeah.
17, 18.
17, 18.
Wow.
Um, but you see things in
a different way than I do.
You look at thingsâ¦
You have a different perspective
than I do, so you come up with
these ideas I never thought about.
Um, so somehow I can'tâ¦
I, I'm not gonna take the credit.
There's something about your brain
that looks for the bigger picture
in things that sometimes I, a
lot of times I don't even see.
Um, speaking of your brain,
so I love Ty, your wife.
Um- Mm-hmm ⦠y'all were married
for a little while, and she noticed
something interesting about your brain.
She did.
Kevin Schneider: Um, she noticed
this actually when she was pregnant.
So yeah, I got divorced, remarried.
Ty- Ty's my wife.
Um, she's amazing.
We got three kids.
Um, but we have a baby together.
So, um, Guy,
Mike Pine: who's our, our young son,
Kevin Schneider: she was pregnant with him
Mike Pine: name for a boy,
Kevin Schneider: Guy.
Yeah.
We wanted to name him Walter.
Like, we love old-fashioned old man names.
We just think they're funny.
Mike Pine: Ja
Kevin Schneider: Walter or Earl.
I wanted Earl.
I thought Earl would just be
funny for a baby, like Baby Earl.
She nixed that real hard.
But we landed on Guy.
We thought Guy was still cute.
It is cool.
Um, and it's strong.
You can yell at him like, "Guy!"
Like, you could j- it's just aâ¦
It's like a, it's like a sound almost.
Like it's, it's a bird.
Yeah.
But she was, um, just
Mike Pine: in b- I mean, like, she's
Kevin Schneider: in her 40s, and so it
was a hard pregnancy just 'cause of her
age, and, uh, we're kind of older, so
she- No pregnancies are easy, so They're
not, but they're harder when you're older.
And so she was, um, in bed
watching, uh, s- I forget what show.
It was some Netflix show over, umâ¦
Who, who's the comedian?
It's some female comedian.
But anyway, it was kind of this
behind-the-scenes of her life and how
she noticed things in her husband, quirky
things, like hyper-fixation on things,
um, very odd social things or whatever.
And she's like, "This
guy reminds me of Kevin."
And because he had autism, and so sheâ¦
Because of her watching this show,
she's like, "I always thoughtâ¦"
She thought I was a liar, um,
when we first started dating.
I remember that story.
Becauseâ¦
So I, yeah, I have, I
have very slight autism.
It's, I have Asperger's, but it's
very, like, I can, I can work
outside of it, but I have to be very
intentional when I'm being social.
Like, I have to think about looking
at you in the eye kind of thing.
So when I'm talking to her when we were
dating, I would never make eye contact
with her because it's just, um, it's hard.
I don't know why.
It's part of it.
Um, so she thought I was kind of
shady or I wouldn't, I wasn't honest,
is what her honest assessment was.
And then she goes, "I just started
piecing all these things together.
Like, I collect old retro
games, and I categorize them.
I ex- I document them, which ones I beat.
They're all in alphabetical order.
I have them listed."
All this, like, crazy stuff, right?
Like normal people don't do.
But math and all this, the
numbers, the tax side, that
all f- fits with me very well.
Um, but she started just noticing
those things, and so I went
and actually I got tested.
Um, well, first, I, you know, I think I
told this story on the Unleashed many,
many years ago or a year ago or so.
But I took, like, an online assessment.
And so I was in my office on my iPad,
and I was just going through this online
assessment you pay a few bucks for, and
you, you just answer these questions.
It's like, "Hey, do you
have empathy for people?"
And I was like, "I think I do."
I, you know, I, but I
Mike Pine: don't.
It's like
Kevin Schneider: there's always been
a disconnect- You're cold-hearted.
Well, there's a disconnect,
like head knowledge in my heart.
Right.
There's a disconnect, and
so I know things are sad.
I know things are, are, umâ¦
Yeah, l- sadness is a good example.
Like, I know things are sad.
I just don'tâ¦
Like in my head, I just don't feel
them- Mm-hmm ⦠all the time.
And so there's that disconnect.
And so when I was going through
this, they were asking those types
of questions and matching emotions
with facial expressions and all
these other things, and I failed it.
And so it's like, yeah, you're
about 95-- we're 95% likelihood.
And so that-- at that
point, I showed emotion.
I literally broke down in
Mike Pine: tears, and I
Kevin Schneider: crying.
And she walks, she's like, "What are
you-- What's happening right now?"
'Cause she's never seen me like that.
And she's like, "What is happening?"
No, and so I showed her the
results, and I was just likeâ¦
I just felt broken.
I felt-- I-- That's what I felt.
I was like, "Something's wrong with me."
But it started clicking 'cause I can
see patterns in my life where I'm like,
stuff starts to make sense, you know?
And so, um, actually went to, um,
psychiatrist, um, someone who can
actually diagnose and had me do
all these different kinda likeâ¦
It was about a four or five-hour exam.
I did all these puzzles.
I did all these, um, pictures of facial
expressions, emotions, um, word thing.
I mean, it was a whole bunch of tests
and, uh, they took-- It was actually, when
you read the report, it's really weird.
He's like, "Kevin walked into the office.
He had no noticeable body odor.
He seems his hygiene is okay."
And I was just like, "Yeah."
I was like, "But that is a seri-"
Like, I take care of myself.
I'm very, very high-functioning.
It's fine.
I drove myself here, you
Mike Pine: know?
Um,
but it's, there's parts of my brain
that work way differently, and it
was cool to actually have answers.
Yeah.
Um, I see it as your superpower.
And when you told me about it, it was
also the same time in our life where we
were dealing with, um, our oldest son.
Things were harder for him than other
kids, and, uh, we learned all about the
spectrum, and then we, uh, looking at
the test that he was taking, I took them.
Turns out that I'm on the spectrum, too.
Um, and then you come up with this,
and I'm like, "Wow, that makes a lot
of sense," but it's your superpower.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
I think it's what makes you
so good at what you do and the
most valuable aspects ofâ¦
Maybe not the most.
Your heart is the most valuable, but
other than, and your faith, but other
than that, like, that's what makes
you so good and makes us so good.
And I suspect I haven't gone through
the whole, like, I don't see the point.
Becca knows that I, that I'm weird,
and I'm different, and my brain
works different, and she-- I, I don't
see the whole point of going and
actually getting diagnosed and seeing
what part of the spectrum I'm on.
I just know I am.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I know my son is.
I know my dad is now.
He admitted to it, too.
Kevin Schneider: So much sense,
Mike Pine: but, um- It
helps me ⦠I think
Kevin Schneider: decisions
Video: it
Mike Pine: us our, it makes us who
we are, and it is our superpower.
Kevin Schneider: It makes you unique.
Yeah.
'Cause like my daughter, my youngest, um,
she has ADD, you know, and my wife has ADD
too, and so we tell her the same thing.
It's like, "You're not broken."
It's like thisâ¦
You canâ¦
Do you know how many high-functioning
entrepreneurs have that super- like
it's a superpower, like have ADHD?
Do you know how many musicians and
artists and entrepreneurs have that gift?
That makes you change the world.
Where I cannot, I cannot get out of like
that's the, the risk part of me I can't
get out of because I'm not gonna take
steps because it doesn't make logical
sense to do this, this, and this.
Mike Pine: Some
Kevin Schneider: people don't have
the logical hierarchy to go through
Mike Pine: Where I'm on the other side
of the spectrum, where I can take the
risk, and who cares about the logic?
Yes.
Yeah.
Um, except with tax.
I'm good with logic on that.
Elon Musk is very far on the
spectrum, and he's changed the world.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Um, but he's, he's shared multiple
times in interviews, "I would never
want-- wish my brain on anyone."
And thankfully, you and I
are a little more moderated.
He's motivated.
Yeah.
Weird.
Yeah.
He, he just can't turn his
brain off- Yeah ⦠poor guy.
Um, okay.
Well, that was interesting.
I know we're running out of time,
but I wanna dig more into this.
So what I wanna say is, first of all,
we gotta hear why Kevin was fired.
That will come on the next
Hidden Money Unleashed episode.
And the only way you're gonna
know when that comes out is
if you like and subscribe.
Hit that little bell button, um, to
be notified when Unleashed comes out.
And, uh, I, I'll just say this,
Kevin is the best tax CPA I've ever
worked with, um, next to myself.
But in some ways, even better than me.
And you are better than
me in a lot of ways.
You actually do my tax planning,
um, because I'd rather focus
on clients' tax planning.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, um, you're a blessing,
and you're great for our clients,
you're great for me, and I am
blessed to call you a partner.
Thank you.
But
Kevin Schneider: You are weird
Mike Pine: Let's go- And I'm
thankful ⦠get some Corvettes.
No, no- Let's make some weird
decisions ⦠no Corvettes.
Let's get some Cybertrucks.
Okay.
Yes.
We- That's over six thousand pounds.
We have to buy our senior manager, Brooke,
a Cybertruck and get it wrapped in the
way she does not want us to wrap it.
We gotta do that.
I'm on board.
Let's do it.
That's an expensive
troll, but I'm on board.
But what if she quits?
I don't know.
We, we can maybe make half of
the wrap peelable off, right?
There you go.
I can peel it off.
Okay.
Well, thank you very much
for tuning into this episode.
Um, I suspect if you're anything like
me, this is like the second most boring
and uninteresting episode because we're
talking about people and personal stuff.
But the most boring episode being
the one that Kevin interviewed me.
But this is Kevin Schneider.
He is half of Revo Taxpayer Advocacy,
half of the Hidden Money podcast, and
he is at least half, if not more, of why
we can help you change your life with
taxes and change your paradigm and help
you learn how to use tax as a leveraging
tool to grow your financial freedom a
heck of a lot faster than if you don't.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for listening to this episode.
Revo Taxpayer Advocacy LLC is not licensed
or registered as a CPA firm with the
Texas State Board of Public Accountancy.
I'm a CPA, Kevin's a CPA.
We have a lot of CPAs on staff that are
licensed and held to the same standards.
However, when we decided to be
revolutionary and change our name to Revo
Taxpayer Advocacy, the state board would
not allow that and let us remain licensed.
They say we have to have one
of our names in the firm for
us to be licensed as a firm.
And guess what?
It's not us that's important.
It's revolutionizing the way you feel
about taxes and saving you money.
We are advocates for you, so we were
willing to drop our firm license even
though we're still individually licensed.