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"A LOT with Audra" is the podcast for women juggling big dreams and full lives. Each episode, host, Audra Dinell, Midwestern wife, mom and neurodivergent multi-six figure entrepreneur encourages women to embrace their many roles holistically by living a values-based life with confidence and joy. Through candid discussions, practical strategies and inspiring stories, this podcast is your guide to designing and achieving success without losing yourself in the process.
Ep45
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[00:00:00]
Audra Dinell: Hey, welcome to a lot with Audra. Today I have my COO, Kendra Moody on with me. Hey Kendra.
Kendra Moody: Hello.
Audra Dinell: And we are gonna be talking all about our experience with the Kansas Leadership Center. Yay. So.
Partnership with Kansas Leadership Center
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Audra Dinell: We have been lucky at the thread to be a partner with KLC. For many years. We've had the opportunity to send our alum through a program that they call the KLC path, and it has shifted and changed over the years, but the gist is it's three sessions and they build on each [00:01:00] other and help you develop yourself as a leader and your skills.
It has been so rewarding and interesting. To be in the KLC world.
KLC Path and Certification
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Audra Dinell: And so Kendra and I just thought, let's, we've just finished the path. We got our certification in our email this week. We've also taken a coaching intensive with them in the past. So we thought let's jump on and talk all about our experience learning this skill of leadership.
Kendra Moody: Yeah. All about it.
Audra Dinell: All about it, Kendra? Like just tell me high level your experience with KLC.
Coaching Intensive Experience
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Audra Dinell: I mean, we both started out with their coaching intensive so that we could become coaches and offer that service to the women in our community. now we've finished the path.
Kendra Moody: yep. And I think I started the path. I did, I think one or 'cause the path is three steps and I [00:02:00] believe that I did a few of the steps before I did the coaching intensive, which I loved getting to kind of have a nugget of. Understanding their concepts before diving into the coaching intensive.
Leadership as an Activity
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Kendra Moody: And the thing that I love most about the Kansas Leadership Center is that leadership is not a position or authority, it's an activity. And I love that every single one of their pillars is about how we actively demonstrate leadership, whether that's in our family, in our businesses, in our communities.
And so it's just a, I love the concept that everyone is a leader. It's not a position and it's not an authority.
Audra Dinell: Yeah, it's not a title.
Kendra Moody: Correct.
Audra Dinell: I love that too, because we find many women when they're considering the thread, talk about, oh, well, you know, I'm not, I don't manage people, or [00:03:00] I don't have that, a title that's leadership focused. Even when they're within our experience container, many of them do not identify as leaders, which I think is so interesting.
Kendra Moody: It is so interesting and I, I wonder too, and this is where I think there's such a big difference between management and leadership, those terms can easily be confused or people can assume that they're the same definition. And so I think so many people think, well, in order to be a leader, I have to be in management or be a manager.
And to me those are not interchangeable terms. They're very different.
Leadership in Everyday Life
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Audra Dinell: I agree, and we talk a lot about our kids, right? And how we're teaching our kids leadership skills.
So my boys go to a school that has an actual leadership curriculum. It's a lighthouse school. They follow the. Covey leadership model. So they've got songs about habits [00:04:00] and we talk at home about being proactive and looking for a win-win.
That's like my go-to line when they're battling. I'm like, guys, what's a win-win?
Kendra Moody: Yeah.
Audra Dinell: But.
Kendra Moody: don't ever remember learning these things. And I mean, I don't recall back to my elementary years, but even necessarily, like in early business, I feel like so much of the training that I received was more about the technical aspects of my role. So, and I know that you were in marketing, I was in hr, so it was like, okay, what are the laws?
And I, I loved that because I needed that knowledge.
Global Reach of KLC
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Kendra Moody: But that's one of the things that I think KLC does so beautifully is that they take people from all across the state of Kansas. And I, I think they even have like a global audience that they reach out to. But it really truly is getting to be able to connect with people from all different communities and learn about the act of leadership.
Audra Dinell: Yes, the people [00:05:00] that come to the Kansas Leadership Center, whether in person or virtual, are global. I had some, I think Australians in my coaching intensive, which was virtual and all different titles, roles from frontline staff to volunteers to. C level. So yeah, I just really love how that's like the foundation, that leadership is an activity.
You can lead in the coffee line, you can lead at work, you can lead at home, you can lead in your neighborhood.
Kendra Moody: Yeah. I love it.
Audra Dinell: And it's like if more people would embrace their agency to lead, what a beautiful world.
Kendra Moody: Oh, I know,
Audra Dinell: you know, we would stop waiting for someone else to do it because they've been given some sort of invisible permission.
What if we just gave ourselves permission?
Kendra Moody: Right.
Adaptive vs Technical Challenges
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Kendra Moody: Well, and I love one of the concepts that I, that has [00:06:00] really. Made a difference in my life and I even think to back to, gosh, if I would've known some of these things in my corporate setting, how differently I would've showed up. But one of their. Kind of foundational concepts is the, what's an adaptive challenge versus what's a technical challenge.
And there are so many times where I feel like I'm looking through that lens when I'm trying to solve a problem. And so it's like, okay, am I taking the technical approach, which is there's a quick fix of the person who has all the knowledge, can do it easily. I don't probably need to get others involved versus the adaptive where it's like, okay.
There's probably multiple layers to this. It's not gonna be quick. It's gonna be hard work. And so I love that there are so many of the concepts that you can apply in your personal life, in your work life.
Audra Dinell: and that's very specific KLC language, but you brought it up earlier, so I'm glad you circled back to it. Technical versus adaptive. But we do [00:07:00] use this. I mean, you brought it up yesterday in a marketing meeting. You're like, that's actually probably a technical challenge. I can write a process for that.
But this meeting is probably meant to do more adaptive work, sometimes we walk into situations not even identifying, okay, this element is adaptive. Adaptive would mean there's not one answer. We need to get curious. We need to have more opinions or voices in the room.
Whereas technical is there. There is likely a three step process we can use to solve this. And I just so agree with you. Like I often look at all my problems, all my challenges as technical.
Kendra Moody: Well, 'cause that would be easy. Like, oh, let me solve them.
Applying KLC Concepts in Business
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Kendra Moody: And I think too, like yesterday when we were talking through like our sales and marketing, it didn't let us off the hook, but it gave us common language. And made us realize and reset our expectations that, oh, we're not gonna solve this today.
And I think that sometimes we can [00:08:00] come to a meeting, especially if we're working on identifying a process or a system, and think that we can get it done in two hours. I mean, we're overachievers. And so I think when we realized, oh wait, there's more to it than this, we were easily able to be like, okay, that's a common language.
We all understand. This is adaptive. Let's pause here and do some of the work outside that we need to in order to make progress.
Audra Dinell: And this is why I think the path is so important, because I do feel like you can take one session and learn the concepts. You can read the book. So if you are, interested in what we're talking about. They have multiple books out, but the latest is when Everyone leads by Ed O'Malley and Julia Feres McBride,
you can read about these concepts, you can take one course. But being immersed in this path and taking three separate courses, doing the coaching intensive, it has really helped us [00:09:00] seep this into our organization more so than if we would've just read the book and tried to apply the concepts.
What I love about the Kansas Leadership Principles, I love the pillar that leadership is.
Leadership is Risky
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Audra Dinell: Risky. And why I love that is because what we learned more specifically in this last course that we took is that everything is a move. You want to grow your leadership toolkit just like you wanna grow, you know, your mental health toolkit because there's not a formula. For getting through challenges and everything is a move and sometimes you're gonna make the wrong move, but it's messy.
It's an art, and for me, knowing that leadership is risky just gives me permission [00:10:00] to fail, right? Gives me permission to try, knowing that failure is going to happen at some point. It just sort of makes me feel a sense of freedom that. I don't have to look any certain one way to be a leader. There is not a right decision and a wrong decision per se, but it's really this toolkit of skilled moves and you're taking a risk every time you step into the arena.
Kendra Moody: Yeah. Well, and I think too, there is so much pressure to be perfect and I think sometimes people think that if you're a leader, that you have to be perfect and you have to do the right thing all the time. And I think when you embrace that leadership is risky, you recognize that you are going to fail all over the place it's how you respond to those failures and how you learn about that or learn from that. That really enhances your leadership ability. It's not about getting it right all [00:11:00] the time, and that is very freeing too. To your point, I don't have to get it right. I just have to keep trying.
Audra Dinell: Yeah. Well, and I think I walked in from my previous career thinking that leaders have all the answers, and that is just not, that's not the case, and that doesn't have to be the case. So that just, I think, lowers the bar and allows people to begin to see themselves as leaders, because leadership is an activity.
So if I want to choose. A leadership path if I want to choose to lead. That does not mean I have to have all the answers.
Kendra Moody: Right?
Audra Dinell: It just means I have to be willing to try and I've got skills to work on.
Asking Better Questions
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Audra Dinell: You know, one of the skills that you and I both talk about that we really are working to hone are two things that we have in common.
Number one, asking better questions.
Kendra Moody: Yeah. Yep.
Audra Dinell: And number two, diagnosing the situation, not [00:12:00] jumping to the fix
Kendra Moody: Yeah.
Audra Dinell: Yeah,
Kendra Moody: Yeah. Which you would think, given how much we like to talk, that we would ask. Very good questions.
Audra Dinell: I.
Kendra Moody: And one of the things that I loved I can't remember what activity it was that we did last week, but it talked a lot about leading questions. And that's when I realized, oh goodness, I ask a lot of leading questions not to, and, and I probably need to do some. Demonstrate some curiosity and understand where that comes from and why. But I've noticed that those types of questions, leading questions are a lot easier to ask where it really requires listening to understand then the better questions come easier. But when you're listening to respond, it's easy to get those surface level questions.
Audra Dinell: Oh yeah. [00:13:00] And for me, I don't think it was ever blatantly called out until last week, but the question stacking, I'm like, oh, that's me
Kendra Moody: Oh yeah. Uhhuh.
Audra Dinell: I'm like, Hey, how are you? What are you up to today? What's going on in
Kendra Moody: are you doing this weekend?
Audra Dinell: Literally four questions in just a simple hello. Not to mention when we're facilitating a workshop, you know, and I am asking a question to the room and I'm making one question three or four.
Kendra Moody: Well, and it's interesting, so I wonder because what were you, did you raise your hand when they asked who's comfortable or uncomfortable with silence?
Audra Dinell: No, I said I am comfortable
Kendra Moody: you uncomfortable? Because see, that's where I think I can sometimes question stack, because I think, oh, did they? I'm not, I'm, they're processing, which is amazing.
But then in my mind, I think, okay, I need to ask more questions to fill the space.
Audra Dinell: [00:14:00] I often question stack when there is silence too, but not for the same reason, because I wonder if they're understanding the way I asked it, and I wanna ask it in a different way in case that makes it more clear instead of just leaving it to the room.
Kendra Moody: Yeah.
Giving the Work Back
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Kendra Moody: So this kind of takes me to the topic that I facilitated a little discussion on when we did our breakout sessions, and that was giving the work back. That is one that I love and one that I struggle with. It really talks a lot about how there are so many times where we assume that we are the only ones that can do the work.
And so giving the work back. Really is engaging others earlier in the process. And our group talked a lot about how different that is than delegation because delegations, it's easy. Hey, can you, I need you to run these numbers, I need you to bring this report to me. I need you to do this. But at that point, you're already [00:15:00] in solution mode and instead giving the work back earlier on, still in diagnosis.
Bringing people along in the journey really can be powerful. And that's something that I find that I really want to get better at.
Audra Dinell: I agree, and we talked about how to incorporate that in a stronger way in our container at the thread. But what I'm really feeling convicted of is this, in my parenting
Kendra Moody: Oh, I know. Like how do you do that?
Audra Dinell: well and so often, you know, I think. You know, okay, we're gonna come up with a system. I'm gonna create flashcards, I'm gonna have timers, I'm gonna, I think about all the things that I can do, and I think that's part of it, 100%. I am the sturdy leader in my family per Dr. Becky.
Kendra Moody: Right, right,
Audra Dinell: pilot of this plane, co-pilot with my husband, but I [00:16:00] also think about. The ways I'm robbing my kids of developing those skills themselves when I take on so much of the load. And then candidly, I get a little resentful and like blame me of like, y'all come on,
Kendra Moody: Right,
Audra Dinell: know, to put your shoes on. But when I am controlling the whole process, doing all the work and not setting it up, but giving the work to them.
Kendra Moody: Yep.
Audra Dinell: I'm setting it up for failure.
Kendra Moody: Oh, for sure. And I think it was Dr. Becky or someone who was like, you know, at the end of the day we're not gonna get a, Hey mom, you did really great today driving our plane. So, and I think sometimes we have to, that's all the more reason in my mind is to like, no, give the work back. Let them. Start to learn, take some risks, but that also requires us to slow [00:17:00] down because I know sometimes where I'm like, we just gotta get out the door, so I'm gonna do this.
I will make your shake. I will do this. I will help you brush your teeth. When instead it's like, you know what? Things need to be done in this household. You have your chores. Giving them time to take that initiative and to experiment and learn and take some of that work back, I think requires us to just slow down.
And that can be really difficult when we live such a tight timeline, scheduled routine sometimes.
Audra Dinell: Yes, and then to kind of take this back to work, it just applies in every area.
Slowing Down to Lead Effectively
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Audra Dinell: I mean, slowing down is my biggest. Is it called crutch, like is my biggest Cru, like
Kendra Moody: The hardest thing for you to do
Audra Dinell: it is the hardest thing for me to do slowing, but I always come back to that because when I don't have as much on my plate, when I am able to pace myself well, when I'm not trying to overpack things [00:18:00] in, I can be slower and intentional and my energy is just so much better.
I do think in the entrepreneur world, at least what I've experienced as a founder. There is a lot of positives about making quick decisions, being decisive, making the decision and going with it. We cannot stay in diagnose the situation. We cannot stay in questioning mode for ever, but it sort of rubs against each other.
The idea of like to stand up a business, of course you wanna make the right decisions, but quick decisions are also needed. That is true, but it is also true that to slow down and to get more curious and to not just jump to a decision
Kendra Moody: sure.
Audra Dinell: also really valuable. It's just, you know, when do you do?
Kendra Moody: Well, it's a skill to me that you have to. [00:19:00] You have to learn when to, to me, it's also about like how we've understood what our strengths are and we have learned so much about ourselves and so our strengths are our strengths until they're too much. And so I think you sometimes also have to recognize, okay, when is a quick decision needed?
And like, I think, this is obviously not a business example, but like in moments of if your safety's at risk, you don't have time to analyze. Everything. And so in your business, there's probably moments too where it's like, oh, I need to make a quick decision right now for the sake of my employees, for the sake of, you know, whatever it is, and it needs to be a fast one versus when There's other times where it's like, okay, this situation or this challenge would probably benefit from more time.
Audra Dinell: Yeah, it's like when we are facilitating a workshop or hosting an event, quick decisions are needed if you are event mode.
Kendra Moody: Correct.
Audra Dinell: If the event is happening and [00:20:00] something has gone wrong or off, a quick decision is needed.
Kendra Moody: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: But when you're planning your marketing for the next year, you can sit more in the decision phase.
Managed Self and Values
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Audra Dinell: You know the KLC pillar that I think we, the thread lives under the most as an organization is that managed self pillar and you.
Kendra Moody: Mm.
Audra Dinell: Called that out of the work that our team has done. The work that we try and lead our members through is deeply knowing and understanding themselves, and that being the foundation of their ability to lead themselves and lead others and practice leadership. I we're getting ready to do a values workshop for Cohort 10 tomorrow, so values are on my mind, but I really love, oh, me too. I love how KLC calls out that sometimes leadership is gonna require us to choose a monk and competing values
Kendra Moody: Yes.
Audra Dinell: I [00:21:00] think my mind can go so black and white
Kendra Moody: Yeah.
Audra Dinell: and not recognize like the sacrifice that has to be made.
Sometimes in some decisions,
Kendra Moody: I think sometimes too, we can get in a, and I think this is what you mean by black or white, that it's all or nothing. It has to align with all of my values or I, I don't do it. Or if it doesn't align with all of them, I can't. And so really getting curious is getting curious. I feel like it's a pillar.
It should be that as to, okay. Within this challenger, within this season, which value am am I wanting to live in the most? And understanding the why. So what is the rub? Why are these two values kind of rubbing up against each other? And sometimes that's where you can really learn some valuable lessons [00:22:00] that can help guide you.
Audra Dinell: Yeah, I don't think curiosity is a pillar from what I'm looking at, but it is definitely something.
Kendra Moody: throughout.
Audra Dinell: Yes, curiosity is a theme throughout the work at KLC.
Final Thoughts and Takeaways
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Audra Dinell: So to wrap us up the principles, we've talked a lot about the Cancer Leadership Center. Go look them up. We'll link to their website, several books, several courses.
The principles that they stand on are five. Number one, leadership is an activity, not a position. That's what kinder kicked us off with. Number two. Anyone can lead anytime, anywhere, which goes along with our conversation about number one. Number three, leadership starts with you and must engage others.
Number four, leadership is risky. We talked about that in this episode. And number five, leadership is about our toughest challenges. Kendra used the Kansas Leadership [00:23:00] Center language. When she talked about adaptive work, our toughest challenges are gonna be adaptive, so it's just been a real. Just good work to be in the Kansas Leadership Center world and learn the concepts and apply them in our lives and businesses. One cool thing about the threat is all of our alum get access to the KLC path with the spots that we get as KLC partners every year. So we've had so many alum go through the path and also find it hugely valuable as we wrap up.
Anything else you wanna share about just your learnings from KLC over the years, how you apply it? Any final takeaways?
Kendra Moody: One thing, and I, I mentioned this, I, I touched on this a little bit earlier, but one thing that I appreciate so much about KLC is their ability to bring people together.
Audra Dinell: hmm.[00:24:00]
Kendra Moody: So every session that I've taken, I am meeting people from different industries, different parts of the state that I would never have the chance to have met, if not for this.
And what's also interesting is we, every single one of them have been in a vastly different role, different industry. And so when you sit in a group and you think, gosh, I work at a women's leadership organization and you work as a shop foreman leading a team of industrial engineers, there is not much that we have in common until you start to have some of these conversations and challenges and it's so beautiful.
So I would just say that, that I think that's my other favorite part is yes, the pillars, yes, the concepts, but also just it reminds me that you can't judge someone or you can't. Anticipate how you'll connect with someone on the surface based on the [00:25:00] different roles that they play in life and that you really can the connections can be much deeper than that when you start to think about challenges that you both are trying to solve.
Audra Dinell: That is so fitting for you and your strengths and your values that you love so much. That part of KLCI do too. I appreciate that. I've met the coolest people. I would say my favorite part about being in the KLC world is the invitation to kind of like, get your ass in the arena, you know, and try and lead.
And grow these skills and leave perfection at the door because
Kendra Moody: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: if you show up and you're just, trying to get 1% better at any one of these skills every single day, you are doing your part to make the world a better place.
Kendra Moody: Yeah. It's like what you said at our [00:26:00] Cohort 10 kickoff. Leave your best self out of my gathering.
Audra Dinell: Yeah, leave your best self out of my gathering. Priya Parker. Thank you for taking time to recap today. All right, y'all. Thanks for listening to this episode. We'll, like I said, link a bunch of things in the show notes.
Would love to have a conversation if you've partnered with KLC, if you've taken any of their courses, if you're interested. We're just obsessed. We love the work that they're doing and appreciate them so much. So until next time.