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Welcome to the Stacking Slabs, a podcast for sports cards collectors. There's been a tremendous amount of change to our Hobby over the last few years and the one constant has been the passion from the collecting community. Stacking Slabs is built by the collector and lives to tell stories for the collector.
Welcome back, loyal listeners of the Stacking Slabs podcast, to season three episode six of the WNBA card podcast.
My name is Caitlin. I go by at cold lunch cards on the Instagram machine and everywhere else on the Internet, And I'm joined by my co host, Brett McGrath at Stacking Slabs.
And we're excited to continue to deliver collector driven and community focused content to your headphones, to your car stereo.
Wherever you're listening to us today, we're happy to have you, and we're happy to be back. Brett, how are you doing? I'm happy to be back. I'm excited. It's nice to take a little break from the action.
But anytime, which there hasn't been many, we've taken a little break. It feels like there's been just always bombshells dropped in the world of, kind of WNBA or cards. So I know there's plenty that we wanna talk about today.
But, yeah, I'm I'm just feeling it a lot of energy. I'm I'm ready to talk, hoops. Awesome. We've got a a huge agenda to get through today, folks. Lots of things, like Brett said to catch up on and and talk about.
Before we get into that, let's shout out our sponsors of the show. I just wanna give a great shout out to Great Lakes Trading Cards, off Randolph Ave in Saint Paul, Minnesota.
This is a local card shop near me that specializes in WNBA cards. They've got a lot going on. And, by the time this episode will be coming out, it'll be if you're listening on Patreon, it'll be on Friday.
And if you're listening on Spotify or Apple or somewhere else, it'll be Saturday, but it'll be the Thanksgiving weekend, Black Friday sales happening.
So shouting that out for them. I know they have lots of deals every day, not just on Black Friday, but just something to keep alert as you go into your local card shops, especially if it's Great Lakes trading cards.
Shout out to our good friends at Card Ladder, the official data provider of the WNBA card podcast. Spend so much time in Card Ladder, especially helping build out these episodes.
So, yeah, shout out to our great sponsors. And, Caitlin, are you ready to get into this episode? We're we're we've got a lot going on here. I'm I'm excited, and I'm ready.
Hit me, Brett. Alright. So this if if there was one question that we have wandered and been curious about ever since we started this damn podcast, it's been like, what's happening with the WNBA cards and Panini and the license?
I mean, we've seen this, like, Avenger style, like, land grab of all of the licenses from Fanatics slash Topps, and it was felt like it was only a matter of time that WNBA was gonna fall victim of tops and fanatics.
But we find out over the last week that that is not the case, and that Panini is holding on to their license, and that is a WNBA license, which is, we can talk about our feelings.
I I I'm I'm would say I'm excited about it. But I'm really excited about just, like, how this was presented as someone who loves, news, press releases.
And I've got an article up from Sports Collectors Digest, and I'll just hit a few points from this. But it says the multi year deal marks the most lucrative licensing partnership ever or partnership ever for women athletes.
Panini said, the collectibles company expects the new deal to generate record sales and, player royalties. It's something else we can talk about. But there's a quote from Panini America CEO, Mark Wausaup.
He says collaborating with the WNBA PA has shown how strong this market can be, and we are excited to keep innovating and expanding our product offerings for fans and collectors everywhere.
Final quote that I I wanna mention was at the end of this because I was like, this is something.
But we have, a quote from, Nneka Gumake, WNBA PA president, which you might have heard of her, but she says she's brings into this chat. She says, this renewal is about the players and the power of what we've built together.
Panini has been with us as we've pushed the women's game forward, and their products show the reach and impact of our players in ways they feel real.
And I was like, as a brand guy, I was like, talk about, like, the highest of compliments, and I read that as, well, we've been coveted by other manufacturers.
IE, I would imagine, Fanatics and tops, and we're loyal. And we've been with Panini, and Panini has taken us to this level, and we believe they can take us to the next chapter as we're expanding.
So I'm not I have not heard anyone, like, talk about this from this perspective of, like, the words people are using at leadership positions to help show why this happened and why this took place.
But if you're Panini, you gotta feel really good, that you've got, you know, w NBA PA spokes or leader in Eka, like, making those sorts of quotes about why they stayed with Panini.
But I just said a lot, and there's a lot to this. But, like, what what sort of remarks do you have, Caitlin? Yeah. That that the remarks that Nneka made, first of all, have to be worth a lot of money. Like, that was my first thought.
I was like, wow. Okay. That's the endorsement that you want, especially as a fan. Like, hearing that the players are being treated well by the brand, that they're confident in the direction that they're moving makes me very excited.
My second thought that I had was about how the NBA, you know, the brother of the WNBA is now going to be under different manufacturer than the WNBA, which hopefully will lead to some more creativity and individualism, meaning that the WNBA can kind of separate itself from the NBA in terms of its cards, design, releases, etcetera.
And I'm really excited to see what that looks like. That's something I feel like we haven't had in a while. And to have Panini, one of the, you know, major card manufacturers leading that, I have high hopes.
I have high expectations. And hopefully, they can meet them. I, I can't stop thinking about how and I have to, like, really rack my brain on licenses and stuff.
But you've got a flagship brand like Prism that is so identifiable in the hobby. And then we're going to be kind of thinking about, well, which license has the longest legacy in in the, Prism era.
And it's going to be the WNBA, which is I love that because people are never gonna stop stop thinking about Prism and its collectibility, and to have, a a category that we love, WNBA cards, be such a focal it is already a focal point, but to be even more of a focal point in for that brand, I think, is is so cool.
And I'm sure we're going to continue to I mean, I know.
Well, there's we could do a whole episode about this, and perhaps we do next week. We'll talk about it more, but I just think this is a a really I wanna Panini has been get has been getting so much shit.
We have had jabs here and there, although it's been like, we we enjoy what Panini's done, but here's some jabs here and there.
But I just think this is a massive win for Panini. Absolutely. Win for the league as well. It feels mutually beneficial. As long as they get those cards out on time, I'm all here for it, Brett.
Alright. What other, topics do you got up top? The we we just to let listeners in, we just we hadn't talked in a while, so we just we had a format, and we just threw in some topics on top of it because we gotta talk about it.
We gotta talk about it. Yeah. So we just brought up Panini. We brought up Prism, and I saw that recently, as we record today that twenty twenty five WNBA Prism Blasters showed up on dicks. com. And that's an interesting, thing to see.
That's exciting. We have life. I I repeat, we have life. I'm excited to see how that goes. I saw I think Caitlin, Paige, and Fi are on the box, which makes me very excited as well just personally.
So this is this is good news. It's better than than no news at all. And as we continue forth in the Panini era, I I'm excited to see what comes next. But this this should be a huge release, so I'm excited.
I'm I'm thinking that I would bet that the blasters maybe have the finites again too, which makes them I like that. I do too. It's nice. It's a lice it it makes me incentivized to care about blasters on Dick's, sportinggood.
Com or whatever their website is. But, yeah. This is what I'm saying, Caitlin, especially in light of the news we just shared about them getting the license.
I am I'm really pumped about this 2025 Prism launch. And it's it I'm interested to see if it looks and feels different than maybe it has in the past based on their order of prioritization and resources.
Like, they've got Paige as the rookie, and they've got, you know, all of these other surrounding pieces that are I mean, it's I'm pumped. I'm I'm I'm very I'm I'm feeling new energy around this. So, yeah. Go buy your blasters at dicks.
Com. Yeah. They'll come in, like, six months hopefully. Okay. Next piece of news we wanted to go with. Speaking of new energy, the Phoenix Mercury have unveiled a new branding identity, New Jersey's new everything.
Brett, have you had a chance to look at them? Have you seen the the releases of them at all? I I was underwhelmed. Same here. I was I was underwhelmed. And, yeah, it just it didn't move then.
I I try not to be the negative guy when something is relaunched or something new comes out because naturally as human beings, we don't like change and we usually, like, as people, like, always resist that.
But this was, like, one of those, like, seeing the side by side My best bet. Of the two. I'm just, like, I just I like the old one better. Yeah. Let me go on record saying, okay. I'm, like, a huge Jersey fanatic.
Not meaning that I collect them or anything like that, but I'm a big fan of analyzing jersey matchups, figuring out what the most optimal jerseys are on the court or on the field when they play against each other.
And individually, the Phoenix Mercury had, I think, one of the top uniforms last year.
I thought they looked great. I thought they weren't too minimal. They were pushing the envelope a little bit. And I have a feeling they hired a consultant to make these align with the minimalist, kind of new era that we're entering.
And all I could think about was the M and M logo. It looks like M and M's, like a bag of M and M's to me. But, you know, in a year, in two years, I'm gonna love them. I'm sure that's how it always goes.
And I'm happy for them. But I just wanted to talk about this because, you know, there's only 13 teams right now, and we're we're getting lots of new expansion teams. There's lots of brand packages being rolled out.
I wouldn't be surprised to see more kind of unveiling of new branding across the league, just as we approach this kind of inflection point, especially with the CBA and all these new things going on, new money, new fans.
I wouldn't be surprised. And so to see Mercury leading that charge is exciting, because that's that's a good sign to have a rebranding to to be moving forward, but wanted to talk about it and get your opinion.
Yeah. Yeah. Rebranding, I think, is always whether you like it or not, it's always a good sign based on environment when you that it I've been through several rebrands in my professional career, and they aren't for the faint of heart.
It costs a lot of money.
It it takes forever to update everything. There's always stuff lingering in the seas of the Internet with old branding and stuff. It's it's not an easy decision to make, so they made it. So I I will support that. I will say this.
And then we're talking jerseys. One thing, like, I I'm all about and continue to throw these at me, you've seen this start to take shape in other leagues. And WNBA, it's really a thing. I'm a fan of, like, the established brand.
You've got your logo. You've got your core jerseys. But I love the the alternate packages and these sub brands. Like, I instantly think of, like, you know, the the Stranger Things fever jerseys.
Like, to me, that is so cool. And other teams are doing this with different color palettes, and I just love that. It just pops, and it's just interesting, and it's new, and it catches you off guard.
And it makes for cool cards. I love seeing players that I collect in these alternate jerseys for the Colts. They have these midnight jerseys and then these blue on blue.
And it's like, whenever there's a card that I see of that, I'm like, that I want that because they don't wear those all the time. So that's I I keep keep them coming. Keep trying to make money on these jerseys.
You can't make enough. That's how that's how I feel. Exciting stuff coming to the Mercury. I hope that the Mercury fans like it. That's what I'll say. As a non Mercury fan, I hope you guys like it.
And if not, I'm sure it'll grow on on all of us. And I think we have one last topic before we get into kind of the the meat and potatoes of today's episode, Brett. So why don't we why don't we finish off with that to begin?
Yeah. So I I was completely, blindsided up until I opened up the Internet on my phone and saw that the lottery was happening. And then I saw the wings get the number one pick again.
So wings, you better you better you better help Paige out. You better do something with that pick. But then the links landing the second pick overall, and we all know you as the Minnesota links, number one fan.
Ross, thank you. So I gotta get your reaction to having the the just such a good team, and then now you have the number two pick. What's going on in your head? Like, what was your reaction? Very proud of the front office for this move.
Looking back for anybody that doesn't recall, this pick was actually the Chicago Sky's pick. When the the Sky moved up in front of us to draft Angel Reese, and we drafted Alyssa Peely, in exchange for that trade, we got this pick.
And since the Sky had not a great year, our odds in the lottery went up to about 25%. And we did land the number two pick as a result of that. And before I go forward about how excited I am about this, it does make me very sad.
Hindsight's 2020 that we could have had Angel Reese and not this pick, but maybe it'll pan out. But anyways, I'm really excited about the number two pick.
Honestly, the number one pick is so scary as much as I want it. It puts so much pressure to pick the correct person, like, not only for the fans, but for the player and for the team, that the number two pick is exactly where I wanna be.
Let the wings make that decision. You know, they have all the pressure in the world. There's a lot of different tentacles here with this pick with AZ Fudd being in the top three with kind of an unproven Spanish pro in our fam.
You've got Olivia Miles, Lauren Betts, a lot of really good options that I would like them to kinda take the pressure off of us at the number two pick.
And whoever falls to us falls to us. Out of the four people that I just mentioned, I want EZ FUD. We know how I feel about the guards on my team.
They're not I'm not their biggest fans. I think that Fudd would be an incredible person to take over and to learn from Kayla McBride. I think that that would be just an incredible mentorship person, to to help AZ Fudd.
But other than that, I go Lauren Betts at number two. I think we need a big Alana Smith's amazing, you know, co defensive player of the year last year, but very undersized.
And, Lauren Betts doesn't have that problem, I'll tell you that. It would be fun to see Lauren Betts and Atlanta Smith and Fi on the court at the same time.
That's a massive lineup. But we'll see. I I'll be excited with any of them, but I'm very scared of the international prospect of it all. And I know that the Lynx love to do that.
So I'm a little I'm a little nervous. I, I hadn't the I hadn't even got to the, can we get a camera on page talking with the, the the back office or the front office of, the wings and her petitioning to try.
Imagine. I can't imagine what it's like. It's gotta feel like I don't know.
Catch 22. Is that the right phrase? I don't know. Like, it it feels like if you take AZ, that's great. But if you don't take AZ, that's also good. And it feels I wouldn't wanna be the person making that decision is all that I'm saying.
I think there are you know, you get in the top five. There's you're in a good spot. They're all they're good players. You know, I and you've made the case for all the players that you would like to see, and for what?
You know your t boy better than I do. But as when the news first hit me, the first thought I had was, man, I think I think Olivia Miles would look pretty good in Lake's gear. I think Oh, she would.
About you. From a personal perspective, I would definitely want her. I just don't I think I'd want her if we were to the number three pick. The number two pick feels like you gotta go with, like, the blue blood type player.
So we'll see. I'm excited to see. That was fun. Alright. Show's over. I'm just kidding. We've got we could riff on that stuff, and I'm trying to be be brief because we've got a big topic.
But, you know, last time we spoke, we ran through all the changes that were happening, in the with leagues, and we talk about card licenses.
And I remember I I mentioned Hobby Canon during that episode. And, Caitlin, I saw the look on your face, and you're like, oh, like, this is a topic I'm interested in exploring.
And we talked about a little bit, but I figured, like, what what why don't we dedicate in a whole episode to talking about it?
And I think there is with with WNBA, and maybe this becomes more formative now that we've got the license in place for the foreseeable future, which I think helps.
But it's not like it is in the NBA or baseball where things are more established and collectors have, you know, put their stake in the ground on this is what they think matters and what doesn't matters.
I feel like it's more greenfield space. We're in more of a start up mode even though the league's been around for thirty years and, cards have been produced for pretty much the entire time. It just feels new. So let's dig into that.
And maybe first, before we do that, we ask the question, what is the WNBA hobby canon and who decides it? Big question, Brett. I tried to break this up into pieces. And so I kinda wanna start with the idea of the definition of canon.
So when we say canon in this regard usually, canon is presented in a literary context, meaning that there's this, set of books that was deemed kind of classical literature and will transcend time as some of the greatest works of literature ever.
And so now we are trying to apply that concept to WNBA cards, which I think is very interesting.
So when we talk about the canon, the WNBA canon, we're talking about the cards that, you know, the one the ones that future collectors will point to as the pillar of the WNBA card ecosystem as a whole throughout time.
Like I said, transcends times. Meaning that it doesn't it's not just cards that are expensive. It's not just cards that are the most rare, but it's there's that endure time, endure the test of different generations of collectors.
And I think it's very interesting to take a step back and focus on what Brett said in terms of the league has only really been around for thirty years with gaps in products, big generational breaks.
Nothing is really locked into the canon, and that means the canon is still being decided.
And so the second part of that question you said, what is the hobby canon or the WNBA hobby canon and who decides it? And I think, I think it's pretty clear to say that collectors are the ones that are making that decision.
And the decision of what enters the canon or comes out of the canon, is what collectors consistently chase throughout time, what they protect, what they keep kind of sticky in their collection, and what they keep talking about.
What always comes up when you talk about WNBA cards.
And it's not just collectors that are influencing the canon. I think you have the players, you know, once a player becomes undeniably great, collectors don't have much say in the fact that they're gonna enter the canon.
But the card that enters the canon is more up to the collectors. And that also is affected by the availability in the manufacturer side.
So there's kind of three different stakeholders determining the the canon. The collectors, the players themselves, and then the card manufacturers. And when I say card manufacturers, I mean, we're just talking about Panini.
And they have kind of a flagship, a flagship set called Prism. Because they have that and because collectors chase it and players who are in prism have kind of risen to the moment, they have some sort of role in shaping the canon too.
And when we talk about shaping the canon right now, the moment right now matters so much because the sport, the the sport of women's basketball, the league of the WNBA, the kind of, like, side streets that are popping up with, project b and unrivaled.
And you could even say, like, the collegiate level. The sport is exploding at an unprecedented rate. The hobby is maturing. We're seeing that across categories.
And this moment is where a real kind of, like, lasting enduring cannon is going to form. And so it's up to our collectors, to decide which players go in, and it's up to the card manufacturers to decide what we get to choose from.
So that's kinda where I wanna start, Brett. We're cooking. I love the way we're starting. And you two things we've talked about are just, like, connecting, and I had not really thought about it from the manufacturer deciding.
But you we led with talking about Prism, and you made mention that Caitlin, Paige, and Fi are all on the box. That's a decision made by the manufacturer to show, basically, what what they're selling.
They're they're these are this is their billboard. This is their product. This is their selling. So and then you've got these autograph deals, these licensing deals.
This is a business from their perspective. How how I haven't thought about it from this this lens, but, like, how big of a role does the manufacturer play in establishing this?
Like, do you think it's the biggest role? Do you think it's medium, the lowest? Like, how big of a role do you think Panini has in this?
I think it can't it it can't be overstated or under they're kind of in that medium tier because it would it wouldn't matter if we had Rittenhouse or Ultra or FLIR or TOPS or whoever.
Collectors want to collect something. There is that demand there. So there there will no matter who the manufacturer manufacturer and enter enter the cannon at some point because of the players that are featured on those cards.
And so I think that's kind of the driving factor is the players and the collectors.
And that the the the manufacturer is almost agnostic to the canon, but they can elevate their status in the canon by delivering consistent legacy filled cards like Panini Prism, which is going into its fifth year in the WNBA, has a strong lineage, has parallels that are consistent across those years, and also has amazing rookies to stack up into them.
So I think that manufacturers play a part, but they're certainly certainly not the leader of deciding the cannon in any re any regard. Alright. Let's talk about the foundation.
And this is for maybe newer participants coming in. If someone were walking into WNBA hobby and they were trying to figure out what are the most most known cards, like, there are certain sets we've talked a lot about.
But, like, what do you think? Which sets do you think have earned that permanent status to be a part of that foundation? Yeah.
I wrote down I wrote down a few, and I'll say this. This is just what I think. And the canon is determined collectively, by the market, which is driven by collectors. So this could The WNBA card podcast doesn't establish the canon?
Yeah. We're actually right in the canon right now. Everybody listen up. This is it. No. Absolutely not. This is just my take on where I would start, but definitely open for debate. The first one and I'm gonna go chronologically, Brett.
The first one that I had was 1997 Pinnacle with rookies like Swoops, Cheryl Swoops, Lisa Leslie, Cynthia Cooper. These are kind of the first true pillars of WNBA cardboard because of the fact that this is the inaugural season.
Inaugural cards, just the history there is so important, and the players themselves were incredible and had long careers, very successful careers.
The second one that I wrote down is 1999 Ultra, which steps in kind of with a more modern feel than Pinnacle with some good rookies like Jamika Holdsclaw and a complete set that feels kinda more more forward facing.
I think that those are the two sets from the very early years that have a place in the canon.
And then there's kind of a gap for me for me personally. And I'll get into some cards from I'll get into cards in this gap that I think fall into the canon.
But in terms of the sets, that fall into the canon, I think we moved to 2008 Rittenhouse with Candace Parker, who was truly, like, the first true megastar rookie between the modern and the ultra modern era.
She's kind of that bridge, that people always recognize, and it was in 2008. And then there's kind of another gap and we move into the more modern trendsetters. In 2016, Stewie appears. In 2018, Asia Wilson appears.
And they're kind of the current wave of franchise spaces, in Rittenhouse and in the WNBA. And then finally, I rounded out with two final brands from Panini with Don Russ in 2019 featuring stars like Fi, Jackie Young, etcetera, etcetera.
And they kinda reboot the WNBA brand with the rated rookie of it all. And then finally, we move into what I consider one of the core core sets of has already gained permanent status into the canon, which is 2020 prism.
Kind of that cultural entry point for a lot of WNBA collectors with the gold prisms, the black finites, color matches.
This is kinda where that chase of it all starts to set in instead of the set of it all. So those are the the kind of sets that I thought about as, canon canon building sets for sure.
You hear, all the time players not plays. We're gonna talk about players not cards. Who are the foundational players that must be represented in this canon that we're referencing?
So there's some repeat between the sets that I just went over, but there's also some other ones. So I I put down day one icons like Cheryl Swoops, Lisa Leslie, Tina Thompson, Cynthia Cooper.
The people that without them, there would be no league. There would be no WNBA card podcast. There would be no nothing. And I think that they are they undoubtedly must be in the cabin.
And then two nonnegotiables, I will not be accepting debate on this, would be Diana Taurasi and Sue Bird. Just figures of longevity of winning of the when I think about the WNBA, I think about those two.
Yep. And they have to be there. I put next up Maya Moore who, you know, had a short career but had a lot of impact not only on the game but on culture. When I think about Maya Moore, I think of that Jordan Wings poster.
You know, that that transcends time. Not only her stats, but her meaning to the game, her the story of her walking away, definitely deserves a spot in the canon. The next one, I put Candace Parker.
I I think that, you know, she's kind of a modern anchor, so to say, meaning that when we look back on between DT and Sue Bird and then today's stars, Candace Parker is the one that jumps off the page for me.
And then the new wave, I mean, I'm biased. There's recency biased here, but I think we're gonna have a lot of stars in the canon with the kind of, like, passing of the torch, so to say, from from the old era to the new era.
And I put Sabrina in there. I put Stewie. I put Asia, and I put Fi.
And then, you know, the ultra modern stars, the new rookies, I think without even if they weren't to step on the court, Caitlin and Paige definitely deserve a spot just for their impact on the game and and the fans, but they still they still have to perform up to some sort of expectations.
But that's who I'm putting in the canon today. I love this breakdown, and I think so. I think we are certainly to me, if there were, eras of WNBA collecting, I almost put with this renewal of this license in 2025.
I almost this is like, I feel like we're entering we're entering in pages rookie year this new era. And I think you've got these players like Caitlin and Paige who there's a a lot of excitement about and a lot of momentum around them.
And I think back I don't know if you think about this all the time. But I think about, like, what if the WNBA in general and collecting were in the same place that they were now back when Asia Wilson was a rookie.
Like and I think, like, we wouldn't be talking about, like, this sort of conversation if things were different and things had changed. But, like, we're in an upward trajectory right now.
But I love just the overall breakdown, and I think we get in this mode too where we forget about all these legends that you talked about that have established this category and established, like, collectibility in this category.
Do you do you think that that improves over time? Or do you think, ultimately, like, the market is always going to just be attracted to kind of that those new emerging stars that are forming?
Well, I think the market's always gonna be drawn to those emerging stars, that have promise, but, you know, they promise some some profit.
But I think that the canon doesn't really care about profit at all. So I think that can change and I think that's where the discussion really is.
The heart of the discussion around the canon is up to collectors. And when I when I think about it, I don't think it's driven by, prospect and by potential. It's driven by greatness in history. So that's where that's where I would say.
Okay. So then in this new era we're entering, what what what what makes a card canonical? Like, what what in the ultra moderns phase, like, what has to be true in order for them to enter this chat?
I think the expectations of what's deemed canonical now versus back then, it's always changing. That kind of, like, entrance exam into the canon is not the same over time because the environment is not the same.
But today, for these kind of newer stars like Paige, Caitlin, Angel, Aja, Fi, etcetera. I think that a card becomes canonical when it represents a moment bigger than the player themselves.
And so I I came up with three examples that I think encapsulate this. This could be Caitlin Clark's elevation of the game entering from Iowa to the big leagues.
This could be Asia win winning a record number of MVPs, or this could be Nafissa Collier and Brianna Stewart creating a competitive alternative league to pay players, what they're worth.
I think those are three things and four players that represent a a moment in time that is bigger than themselves or bigger than that particular card.
And therefore, we as collectors deem them to be canonical. And and in order for that card to become canonical, it has to be widely recognized by the hobby.
It can't it can't be unavailable to everybody. Nobody it can't just be available to one person with the deepest pockets. This needs to be chased by the hobby collectively and attainable.
And it usually carries a design or a brand that holds weight across time. I keep coming back to Prism because that's what Brett and I just love, but it could be something else.
And I think that the final kind of like entrance exam question here is its long term relevance, mattering more than just a short term price spike.
So how long can it stay relevant? Not only the card itself, but the player in the moment that it represents.
Is is the first card always the canonical card? I I wrote not always because I can never get a bit clear answer on this. But I think most of the time, it's the first card because I I really do think that it's very important.
The rookie card badge, the rookie card significance leads it. That isn't to say there aren't, exceptions and that the canon cannot be changed to reflect a different opinion, but I'll say this.
Sometimes the first is seen as too obscure. Like, I think about like 2022 revolution, which existed kind of on its own.
There was no before and there hasn't been an after and it's just there. And I really like it, but it lacks that kind of lineage and consistency where where if your favorite player wasn't in that set, there's no chance of you getting it.
That that's a downside to those kind of first, if it's just a first. But but also a first can be seen as culturally iconic or recognizable and becomes really canonical.
So I'll say to the to your answer of is the first card always the canonical card? Most of the time, yes. Sometimes, no. Okay. Then, this year was certainly the year of tremendous hype.
How do you how does hype play a role in this? I think hype is important. I don't think that we can downplay the importance of hype because hype can give a card, a player, a moment, a a league.
It can give anything visibility that it might not have otherwise earned, and that's important. You need to be able to see something to determine if it's going to enter the cannon. It's not just gonna magically appear there.
We need to all kind of collectively agree that it's going in. But sometimes, some cards, they they survive that hype. They survive the cool down, and they sustain a permanence in collectors' minds, throughout years.
And, I think that sometimes that that hype creates an entry point card for folks that they can look at and see as canon simply because everyone remembers it in the moment that it represents.
So I think that hype influences the canonical sense, in a good way, but it has to it has to go beyond the hype for it to to really to really stay. Who's the final decision maker here when we're creating the the canon?
Is it the collectors, the the players, the manufacturer? I think final decider. Final. Like, yes or no is the collectors. Because if it wasn't the collectors, who else could it be?
It could be the players. Obviously, we have to respect their greatness. You can't deny Asia Wilson anymore. You just can't do that. It's not possible. She's going to be in the canon. Okay?
Who else could it be? Could it be the manufacturers? But like I was saying before, if Panini lost his license and Rittenhouse came back, you know, from the grave or if Topps came in, collectors are still gonna be collecting something.
And I think it always comes back to the collector. They are where the buck stops for sure. Alright. Let's close out this topic, by I'd love to know kinda your response on this.
But if we were building the early WNBA cannon today, what are the cards that you think should belong? And we'll preface this by saying this is just Caitlin's opinion. This is just me? Nobody get upset. What what what's that list?
So I came up with a list of 12, which I think is funny because in our notes, it says, like, give a short clear answer to this. It's like never in a million years are you getting a short clear answer from me, Brett.
But 12 cards, and I'll just run through them one by one, and then you can ask me questions about it later. But here it is. Number one, nineteen 97 Pinnacle Lisa Leslie.
2, nineteen 97 Pinnacle Cynthia Cooper. Three, two thousand two Ultra Sue Bird. Four, two thousand four Ultra Diana Taurasi. Five, two thousand eight Rittenhouse Candace Parker. Six, two thousand eleven Rittenhouse Maya Moore.
Seven, two thousand 13 Rittenhouse Elena Delle Don. '8, 2018 Rittenhouse Asia Wilson. Nine, 2019 Donner's Nafissa Collier. 10, 2020 Prism Sabrina Unesco. 11, 2024 Prism Caitlin Clark. And '12, twenty '25 Prism Paige Beckers.
Okay. Great list. When you were creating this list, was it just gut feels? Were you checking prices? Like, what what was it that made you come up with this list that we just heard? Okay. I started with, like, a list of, like, 30.
And I was like, woah. We are not gonna be able to get through that. And, like, as much as I wanna include more and more, 12 feels kind of biblical. So I was like, 12 is a good good number to settle on, the 12 cards of the canon.
And I did look at card ladder to kind of get inspiration on which ones were selling more often, which ones were rising in price, meaning that collectors are still chasing them.
But also looking at pop reports of what's rare and desired. But it wasn't just price that drove this.
This had a lot of gut in it. This has a lot of my personal bias in it. I mean, we've got fee in there. We've got Caitlin. We got Paige. We got Elena Delle Don, Maya Moore. A lot of players that I personally connect with.
So I understand that There's a lot of players that are deserving as well. But this this came down to who I think kind of permeates my my thoughts when I'm thinking about the greats in the card conversation.
Like, it's not just the greats of basketball. It's the greats of women's basketball cards. And so that's that's kind of the I really had to think about it.
It took me a long time, but this is what I settled on. That was awesome. Great work, Caitlin. That was an excellent, performance here by you going through that. I I put some tough ones out there, but that was very organized.
And what I like about working with you on this is you sometimes you just tee me up because you mentioned this this set and this player and the card of the week, shout out card ladder for, giving us access to this data that sold is the 2,008 Rittenhouse Candace Parker rookie, sGC 10 out of four forty four.
This card sold 11/12/2025 for 2,655. You're tracking on the right direction because this is a big sale, and I think you're not alone in thinking that this card matters and is important.
So maybe in light of what we just talked about and seeing this price, like, what what's going on in your head as you see the sale? So I split my thoughts on this card into two different ones.
The first being the personal biased, my opinion, and then being the more objective level headed. So what what do you wanna hear first, Brett? What do you think? Let's let's hear the, level headed and then go biased.
Okay. So my objective opinion as well as I could have. The sale itself feels awesome. It's an iconic set. The out of four forty four numbering, I think, is such a cool touch, especially for the era that this card came out in.
Candace Parker is, as I've said now a couple times in this episode, I think a certified inclusion in the canon. One of the era defining players who has continued to make her presence known in WNBA media and NBA media.
And so seeing a clean, very difficult to grade copy land under $3,000 but, you know, north of 2,500 is a great card, but I think an even better buy.
I think that this card has longevity and staying power in the hobby. And, I just really like it. I think it's a great card. Alright. Go the other direction now.
Okay. The other direction is I got a little salty because this card hits a little different for me, because I used to own a raw copy. I bought it from Iowa Dave, on one of his, like, consolidation waves that he was going through.
And I honestly, when I bought it, Brett, I never thought I would let it go ever. Because I saw it and I held it in person. I was like, it just brings you back to a different moment of time.
But I packed it in my lunchbox to the national in Cleveland because I was like, what if? You know, the big always the what if. It always enters my mind. And thank God I did because that ended up being the piece that I traded for my $20.
20 gold fee prism. And so I always feel a little indebted to this card because it was the vehicle that got me to one of my favorite cards in my collection.
But I it's like seeing an old friend. I just this card brings up so many good memories for me, and it's just a great one.
Oh, I love a good story. That was fun. I wasn't expecting that. But yeah. That what a what a rookie campaign to Yeah. No kidding. I I Candace Parker. Let's kick it over, to pickups of the week.
You got anything new shaking? Okay. I'll say this. There is a deal in progress. It will be massive. It will be the biggest pickup of the WNBA card pod experience for me, but it is not here yet.
And until I can hold it in my hand, I will not be unveiling it. I I well, I am excited for this all take tape and unfold. Do we know when you're gonna have access to it?
Hopefully, by the time this comes out, like, a couple days after that. Okay. Soon. Very soon. I should have brought I moved my cards. My cards are now out of my office, and they're upstairs.
And this is what I've learned because I was using them as a way to break up the action, but now I actually get dedicated time. I have to, like, go on an adventure upstairs and time with my cards.
And it's the best decision I've ever made. But I picked a card, which is, I've owned this card before, and I've owned the card in a PSA ten. But I own the card down at PSA 9.
But that's okay. But I picked up, Hannah Hidalgo's Gold Shimmer, her Bowman first. And I, yeah, I it was I was I was it was stupid of me to sell it originally, and it was part of, like, a consolidation effort.
And ever since this season started, I just wanted the card back. And so I one came available, and I got the card.
But if anyone's not paying attention to what Hannah Dahlgo is doing right now, it's been pure theater. Like, she's just crushing it. So as a Notre Dame fan, as a Bowman fan, I I didn't I didn't need the follow-up.
I needed the first. The first. And so, yeah, I grabbed that. And I'm not saying it's over yet. I'm still might be in pursuit of maybe a better copy or a lower serial number copy, but I love the card itself.
And it's been fun to watch her ball out. Absolutely. Congrats on that pickup. Does that complement anything in your collection, Brett? I know you like to pair things together.
Do you have other gold shimmers that that's why you went with the gold shimmer? What's what's the reason behind that? I I know great reason, and I I have owned gold shimmers in the past that I I don't have in my collection now.
But the the I'm usually in prism. I'm, like, anti gold shimmer. Yeah. I just don't I just don't collect it. But in Bowman, for whatever reason, I just think it looks really nice and clean. I so yeah.
That's it. But yeah. You're right. And my pairing might be pairing, Hannah Hidalgo with Hannah Hidalgo. So that's my other that might be where where we're at. But Awesome. Yeah. I'm excited about the pickup. Awesome. Great pickup.
And, stay tuned for mine. Hopefully, next week, we'll get to talk about it. Alright. Let's move on to collector spotlight. Collector of the week this week is at calder card collector on Instagram. This is Josh on Instagram.
His bio says, Pistons, Cade Cunningham, Sabrina UNESCO, Paige Beckers, Caitlin Clark, Silas swords, Lions, and Central Michigan collector. And let me just say this, I cannot believe we have not spotlighted this collector before.
I went through. I went through, like, we've on the at WMBACard pod on Instagram, we follow all of the collectors that we've spotlighted throughout the episodes.
And I really thought I would stumble upon this account, but I don't think we have, Brett, and that feels wrong.
So today's the day we're spotting Josh. He's an absolutely amazing collector building one of the most impressive PCs out there with a special focus on women's basketball cards.
And scrolling Josh's page, the word I came up with was drool inducing. There are some crazy, crazy women's basketball cards.
I I implore all of you to take a gander. And if you don't follow Josh at calder card collector on Instagram, this is your sign to do it. Yeah. Awesome collector. Great collection. I've been following him.
And I have, I believe, yes, I believe we've made a deal or two. Wow. Love it. I love it. Alright. Well, let's move on from our collector of the week, which was a fun one this week, to my favorite part of the episode.
Usually, here is a mailbag. And as we previewed last week and the week before, we are alternating between cohost to cohost questions and listener to host questions.
And this week, we're on the cohost. So I came up with three questions, to ask Brett, which I will also provide answers to.
And, you know, I was really excited about this, Brett. So I I hope you've got some good answers cooked up for the audience. I'm I'm I'm hoping I can deliver here for you. I love it. Let's kick it off with question number one.
We're rolling out of fall and into my favorite season, winter. If you look at your collection through the lens of your own four seasons, not the sports seasons, but the four seasons, how would you define them?
I would say the most definite this generally, I'll say most of the seasons blend together, and I know that's, like, not the best answer.
But, like, I kinda keep the same program running throughout the entire year, and that essentially is, like, continue to evolve, continue to pick up bigger and better cards, like, make sacrifices.
And that's throughout the year, and it doesn't slow down really. But but what I will say is this season right now is that I'm in is a very important one, and this happens every year come December.
It is this feeling of, rejuvenation, and part of that is because I'm taking time to analyze the entirety of my collection and make decisions on if I wanna go deeper on a particular player or a particular lane or I wanna get rid of them.
So December time frame, I'm always making massive monumental shifts and decisions.
And what I find from that is that whatever remains is typically what I really love. So that's kind of it for me. It's season by season, not a lot of difference, but, like and it's not like November and December.
It's like December. December is just a critical period for for me and my collecting. What about you? To look forward to for you then as we approach December.
For me you? For me, I really do see four distinct seasons in my collecting, which is interesting. And And I'll start with winter since that's what we're going into. It feels like my hibernation season.
Similar to you, prices usually soften and it's when I get more intentional. Tightening up the PC, making focused upgrades, figuring out what I like and what I don't like, that's what I use the winter for.
And by the time spring gets around, those cards that I've deemed not not good enough or they just aren't hitting the same as they used to, spring becomes kind of my offloading season.
There's a regional big show here in Minnesota that I set up with in the spring, and it's all about turning those inventory pieces into new PC purchases. Then once summer hits, all I can think about is the national.
And so I kinda shift away from card mode into relationship mode, hanging out and making friends and connections, not really grinding out the deals, but more focused on, talking to my people, you know, my card people.
And then fall, it's kinda when I'm the least active. And I think that has to do with the seasons of sports with the w ending, the NFL starting. I'm I'm watching more than I'm collecting or buying.
So it's kinda like that natural breather point. So I really do see kinda four distinct seasons. And as much as I'd like to be consistent, it just seems to happen every time in that manner.
So that's where I'm at. Creative question asker here, Caitlin. What do we have next? Number two. And that's this one I'm really excited about, Brett.
Recently, an account called at matty h underscore cards on Instagram published his own account branding and art direction, describing his collecting ethos, colors, typography, and templates, which, by the way, if you guys haven't seen this, you need to go look at it.
But let's focus on his colors.
He wrote, quote, inspired by the places I've been and the teams I support, the Matty h Cards core color palette pulls from the nostalgia of the nineteen ninety three MLB All Star Game, the Baltimore Ravens, and Miami Hurricanes, Camden orange, faded raven, 93 green, eerie black, and ivory.
Brett, if your if your PC had its own color palette, what would it be and why? First of all, like, this exercise is just phenomenal and, like, it tugs at my marketer heartstrings.
I have never been the designer or creative that has been focused on building out, you know, brand elements and brand packaging that then goes and gets implemented on a website or an Instagram page in this case.
However, I've worked with plenty of people that sound like, Maddie h, cards here. So if if Maddie h cards isn't a branding or designer, I would be very shocked because he's speaking, a language that I I love and to hear.
This is such a good question. So a lot of things run through my head. And I don't have, like this is what I'll say. I like the way that he has presented his story with the places he's been. He's been.
And I think if I think about it about it from a little bit from that perspective, but then also from the perspective of, like, existing collection, I think you'd have to see, you'd have to see, like, gold would be a certainly an element based on my collection and, like, black based on my collection.
I mean, you literally go and lay all of my cards out, and they're going to have a gold, the gold vinyl, or the black black finite.
That's gonna be the look of 80% of my collection. And then I pair that, like, gold the thing the importance of gold and what it means to me.
And I just like when I read his description, I couldn't help but thinking think about just, like, being on campus at Notre Dame and looking at the Gold Dome and just the way it looks in that, like, it like, I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it right now.
And when I when I do get the opportunity, which is once or twice a year, sometimes three, if I'm lucky to be on campus for a game and to just sit and look.
Like, there's this especially on a day like today, I'm looking outside and it's windy and the leaves are on the ground.
There's just there's just something there that literally, like, it's it's it's in my DNA. It's like, this is your place. And it's like, if if I were just to just to kill over a die, it was like, this is where I'd wanna be.
So, like, something about that, like, really stands out to me as, like, that, like it and it's not just, like, the gold you see on a prism card.
It's that that special gold. Like, that's that would be, like, the foundational, color color for me.
So, yeah. This is a fun one. I love that answer. I had kind of a feeling, a thought in my back in my head that that's what you were gonna go with, and it makes so much sense. For my answer, I came up with four different colors.
I think that they came they they were inspired, because so much of the hobby, like you're saying, when you look at the prism golds, when you look at the black finites, they're super bright and flashy.
It's chrome forward. And that's not really who I am in my day to day. I'm more of the muted natural tones, and I wanted that reflected in my kind of color palette that we're coming up with here.
And I also drew inspiration from my merch drop that I had, and the colors that I used on those, those weren't just picked randomly. Those were a reflection of what I like and what I thought represented my kind of persona.
And so I went with, these four, pepper, which is kind of like a textured black. I went with berry, which is kind of a maroon or wine color. I went with blue spruce, which is like a in between, green and blue shade.
It's what I'm wearing right now. This is called blue spruce. And then an off white eggshell color. And so the the reason I went with these is that they're all not just like you can't just picture exactly what they are.
You're not just saying red, white, black, and green. Like, they have to be a little bit more dialed in. They have to be a little bit more complicated.
And in particular, I think that all four of these colors, pepper, berry, blue spruce, and eggshell kind of kind of fit into, like, the nature food component I've got going on with cold lunch, like eggshell, pepper, berry.
Those are all things that you could find in a lunchbox. And so that's kinda where I got that that idea from.
Oh, man. That's good. I I don't know why this is just, like, on topic, but off topic. Whatever I think about, like, looking into a lunchbox, I just always think about, like, I think about, like, that those the yellow.
It's like yellow and red or yellow and orange, but just like a Fritos bag. Like, I always think about that. But, love it. Yeah. That's good. I appreciate your approach to to your own question.
Oh, thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. Alright. Let's move on to our third and final question of today's episode, which is that I've been kind of on a travel content binge lately, Brett.
I've been consuming a lot of content about travel probably because it's the early winter itch to get out of the cold and go see some sun and scenery.
And it inspired this question, which is pick one specific place, monument, or city you'd love to photograph alongside a card from your PC? I think I, like, subliminally answered the last question in spirit of this question.
But, like, I I I this is what I I've wanted to do this for a while, and people probably think I'm, ridiculous that, like, my travel destination continues to be South South Of Pinney.
But, like, how cool would it be? Like and I have Notre Dame Superfractor, but, like, I'm I'm still in I need, like, Jeremiah Love or Hannah Dahlgren, go Superfractor.
But, like, how cool would it be to, like, have a photo of, like, that Superfractor, like, in pairing with the golden dome, like, because it's the same it's it's damn near the same type of gold profile.
And so I just think of, like, a beautiful, like, spring day, and the sun is beaming on the the damn thing, and you've got the super fracture in handy, snap a photo.
I'm like, that's a cool card. I'm I I'm all about that. I love it, Brett.
I look forward to hopefully seeing that one day. It's hot. That would be that would be great. My answer was inspired by moving into winter, moving into the cold, moving into the snow, and skiing season finally being upon us.
And so I'd pick a hill or a mountain, backdrop for my photo, and I'd bring along my twenty twenty one Goodwin champions, Chloe Kim exquisite RPA out of 10.
I think that, you know, as we as we move into the cold months, I get more attached to the winter sports than usual.
And I'm feeling it right now, and that would be a pretty sick photo, to bring that up on the mountain for sure. That's awesome. Yes. Go make that happen so so I can let vicariously through you.
We that was we covered hey. This is what we call a return right here. How about this? This was a pretty extensive episode. I feel like we covered a lot of ground, and I had a lot of fun doing it.
I did too, and I hope you guys enjoyed it. We appreciate you sticking with us through our break and tuning in to this episode, and we look forward to you guys listening to the next one. Thanks, guys.