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Mark explores the minds of visionary entrepreneurs who refuse to limit themselves to a single venture to learn how these trailblazers manage risks, innovate across industries, and turn ideas into impact.
Whether you’re scaling your first business or juggling several, this podcast is your ultimate guide to thriving as a parallel entrepreneur.
Quick decisions can be reckless decisions,
but not if you are a pattern recogniser.
To each and every entrepreneur,
it had to be very clear and very specific
what their very own sweet spot is
at a very early stage.
We just gotta eliminate all the distractions.
Eliminate all the distractions.
I think you're eliminating points of insight.
In academic terms,
we do make a difference between heuristic
and causal decision-making.
Causal decision-making is the very structured way of,
well, setting a goal
and working towards a certain objective.
Heuristic decision-making is rather intuitive.
It's quicker; it's less formalised.
We're back with Dr. Tobias Kutzewski,
a leading academic authority globally
on the topic of parallel entrepreneurship.
And I want to
pull our attention a little bit toward leadership.
We've been talking about orchestration,
opportunity, uh,
mapping and the various different—and you'll
even admit it—it's a little bit academic.
And, um,
I'm kind of curious that our listener might be saying,
“Well, give me some specific examples.”
And I think that if you could do that,
that'd be helpful. Um,
maybe under the lens of leadership.
Like, where is it that this is about leadership,
and where is it that this is about
rapid decision-making
when you have a portfolio of companies
that you're trying to, um,
husband? Individual leadership skills,
I would say,
are probably the most important component, actually,
to understand what makes parallel entrepreneurs unique,
because I cannot recommend parallel or portfolio.
Entrepreneurship to everyone
I would say that this requires certain skills,
capabilities maybe resilience
uh probably more so than even to cope with ambiguity.
Being able to um
run multiple companies at the same time.
Requires a lot from people
I mean Mark
you know it yourself you did it in the past
you know how many situations that probably were
from your own experience where you said well.
Why on earth does everything come together now
at this moment in time?
And sometimes it can be uncomfortable,
and sometimes it can be very
very personal that you have to decide for yourself.
Which of the ventures deserves more resources
in terms of time capital uh human resources?
Attention,
and those dilemmas that might potentially arise
I in my view are something very personal
very specific and they require um
certain not only maturity in decision-making,
but I would say a certain level to cope with ambiguity
to cope with mutually exclusive decisions.
With conditions that are.
Neither perfect nor fully compress all variables,
and you have to figure out for yourself down the road,
what's actually well
the most feasible way to continue with,
and I'm personally actually quite
quite curious with you as a seasoned um
parallel entrepreneur yourself.
Have there been in the past
any moments where you thought?
I skip with at least a number of my ventures,
and I focus only on 1 maybe on 2
was there something like that for you usually
it came down to it's time to sell this business,
and so the focus of my attention would be moving toward.
I'm selling this one which
you're wrapping things up and systematizing,
and putting,
standard operating procedures in place every day,
but you have to look at the business differently,
when you're on that trajectory and um
it became a whole new set of decisions
based on that objective that change of objectives,
and then when that happened.
I had more time when it was,
when that moment was passed
I had more time to focus on something else
I definitely had a company that was on fire
at one point in time,
where I had to step off my attention
I was paying to Swiftwick,
and step on to
the attention that I was paying to Hobby Lobby actually.
Yeah, I
I had an embezzlement going on at
at that company,
which we discovered a very highly trusted controller uh
position that had a scheme going on
that was difficult to identify,
but eventually we did and I had to
had to address that um
it took a lot more time and attention at that moment,
but that would be an unusual circumstance.
Uh, back to ambiguity
back to things that you don't anticipate
um yeah
I've had to make those decisions to
to step off my personal gas pedal in one and
in one enterprise and focus on the other.
Um,
and I was glad to do it just seemed uh
you know in that case it was necessary
I had I had an officer in the company die and die while
uh you know being an important part
you know not be able to complete uh
this part of life's mission and
you know what the business.
Was doing was completely irrelevant compared to that,
but we all needed to make some adjustments and,
and capture and catch that that family um
yeah tough decisions um
wildly different circumstances
wildly different businesses
you're always under some form of pressure,
but let's just say you're in the swing of things,
and you got multiple companies?
Do you see that parallel
entrepreneurs make decisions faster
or make decisions differently
in academic terms
we do make a difference between heuristics
these general rules that we apply to
that mostly covers the well?
Most instances that we that
that we come across and that work,
and causal decision-making
causal is the very structured way of well
setting a goal and working towards a
a certain objective
it's more common in let's say the more corporate
managerially inspired uh
companies whereas heuristics um
are more were frequently used in entrepreneurial firms.
You have a look on what you
what resources you have at the moment um,
and what can you do with it
how can you allocate them
how can you utilise them effectively,
and what to do with that one,
and in heuristic decision-making is rather yeah.
I would say intuitive.
It's it's quicker it's less formalised
compared with a more causal way of decision-making
that you encounter in um
in bigger corporates.
I would say that some of the entrepreneurs
that I was able to follow
actually had a pretty neatly organised head office.
Uh, a staff function with HR
units that were
doing the accounting and controlling organisation for
for the ventures and actually acted more like yeah
I would say a corporate head office or maybe uh
a staff unit in a private equity
or venture capital firm,
so very similar actually to a rather causal may way of
uh
organizing and deciding where to allocate for instance.
Capital but um
generally
most entrepreneurs relied on their gut feeling,
rules of thumb that worked quite good in most instances
maybe not always but at least they were
they're allowed entrepreneurs to make a quick decision
to not overly formalize,
and decide what other alternatives um
might come up with,
but to decide quickly into which direction to um
to venture yeah,
and I think that quick decisions.
Can be reckless decisions,
but not if you are a pattern recognizer and you
you are deeply involved in the business
you get feedback from the
millions of different sources,
and then you just make a decision
I think also at least in my experience?
We tend to stay committed to our mission
or committed to the outcome,
unreasonably so
in my case sometimes where you just keep on uh
you keep on keeping on um,
so I was curious if you had some experience where
multi venture founders are they wired the same.
Or are there
different types of people that are doing this
well personally
found very intriguing was the similarity across.
Basically, all entrepreneurs being.
Very yeah almost likable approachable
um great communicator
um you really saw that they were really eager
driven and,
and friendly to share their insights not only with me,
but you could clearly saw that
how they responded and reacted to
to other people so they were they.
It was really actually great to see,
because they had such a huge.
Diversity in people around
they were quite accustomed to that and enjoyed it a lot,
so I thought this mix actually of being um
able to rely on your own gut feeling,
but also being able to structure and organise
once that is necessary together with this approachable.
Very authentic way to
to well communicate or something for me
I found deeply intriguing with
with most people that I spoke then yeah
I think this was one of the common denominators
that I basically saw there
is the world moving toward more multi venture founders.
Or is this still a niche to be explored and studied
I wouldn't be surprised that in the future
that we would see more of this
this phenomenon more people developing uh
those skills
more people being able to utilise the technological
technological means and also
more people actually being willing to endeavour,
because we do not know how the future is unfolding,
and maybe even see the world.
Beauty of this uncertainty
to say well
I pick a few spots that I want to develop.
Maybe not all of them were I will be able to harvest,
but sooner or later some of them might
might prosper what's your view on that one
I mean you have the experience,
and you are connected with
numerous people in the field.
Do you see an increase in interest or is it?
How does it look like
I really believe the younger you are
the more likely you are to be a parallel entrepreneur
either right now or real soon
I think we all have heard the cliche
or I've heard it said to me wow
how do you manage the chaos?
I mean well
well what would happen if it's not chaos
what would happen if it's highly organised.
Uh, passion driven resource allocation made sense
what do you think that academia still misunderstands
about the people who are operating this way,
and where do you think that the practitioners
are getting out ahead of the research
well practitioners of course are something well.
Of a certain breed there well yes
it's it's great that you know something
it's great to well to form a new uh
new insights gain more knowledge about something,
but this always has to serve a certain goal.
It has to work you have to make well uh
either run your company more effectively or efficiently
being more innovative in what you do.
Easier able to adopt leadership
those kind of well elements of course are what
what practitioners are looking for in academic research,
and something that I would say
most academics are less able and less.
Willing actually to well
to develop or to suggest and to most academics
it's yeah
it's something practice journals or book publications.
Uh, that are dedicated to practitioners to managers
to business people to entrepreneurs.
Are not the highest ranking publications
you can come up with well,
but I would say these are the ones
that actually
make it worthwhile to actually do academic research,
because then you translate knowledge
into something that people are
hopefully able to use for their daily work for well?
Making decisions on their uncertainty for well
developing a skill set that might well
provide them with better capabilities to well
to run their companies yeah
this is the best part about this conversation for me
is that I hear from experience.
You address question decision action.
Structure
organization I hear you speaking to it,
from this
deep perspective of your own business background,
as well as from the study,
and uh
it's a joyful thing for me
I'm like alright
let's let's talk more about that cause um
I'm I'm curious about the idea that do you.
Find multi venture founders are filtering opportunities
like what separates a yes for them from a distraction.
Um, and I think I'm very aware of distractions,
and at the same time
those are sometimes the kernels of the discovery
the learning process to a opportunity,
so a lot of people will say
we just gotta eliminate all the distractions
eliminate all the distractions,
and I think you're eliminating points of
in points of insight uh,
when when that's your perspective,
but there is ultimately a decision.
A yes or a no
or a inaction decision that has to be made,
and I'm curious
what did you see the founders use as their filter
for that I think the most important thing is
for each and everyone that I came across
first was a very individual.
Um, understanding that they were specifically able to
contribute to a certain venture
a new idea um
either because they knew marketing
either because they knew uh
technology either because they knew how to um
make a startup into a scale up organisational
um leverage.
To each and every entrepreneur
it had to be very clear and very specific
what their very own sweet spot is at a very early stage,
and if there are great opportunities,
and nothing that well fits their own skill set
their own capabilities then um
it can be as good as potentially possible.
I would well
what I saw is people still neglected see it as a,
as well moist in
in their decision-making funnel.
Because they knew that they were not able to complement
the requirements
of a new venture with their own skill set,
and everyone was able of course
to also organise complementary skills.
Um, to introduce them to new business partners.
Um, to external financing
not every form of everything was financed by their
by their own well uh capital base or slack resources.
It was always necessary well
to also keep other keep other people uh
involved and attract new talent,
but in the core
it had to be fundamentally clear to each and everyone
before starting with something
that there has to be
some added value at a very individual level.
That those entrepreneurs were able to present with,
and this could be everything
actually
my friend Brandon shared a piece of advice recently.
Dress,
so that if someone dressed up as you for a costume
party everyone would know it was you.
Now, that's not entirely about clothing
that's about identity about showing up fully.
My wife Jenny and I are leaning in on this concept
both in our personal lives and now in a little startup
we call Happy Overall we're making overalls.
Each one is made to order as a wearable canvas for art.
Overalls that are comfortable
durable and expressive.
We're sourcing soft 100% cotton
we're partnering with designers,
and with local seamstresses,
who love the artistry of a well
crafted piece of clothing.
So, check out Happy Overall.com
to see pics and see if anything resonates with you,
fully you,
and it'll happen every time you reach for them,
if you want to be part of the first run
join our waitlist at Happy Overall.com.
What's
what's your skill set actually that you think well.
That makes you worth more to develop a venture
I think the answer for me is that I'm a super connector
I track talent
I recognise people who have talent.
I make sure I have all their contact information
I make sure that I'm
in a position to know how they're progressing
with their career uh,
because I'm a cheerleader for them first,
and I like to see people be successful and help them,
and then there might be a moment down the road,
and this has happened many times.
Three years five years
seven years later
I've got something that's really interesting,
and I know that person,
and I know what their skills might be,
and what their passions might be,
and I paid attention I just listen,
so I think my first superpower is listening.
My second superpower is connecting the dots
helping people get where they wanna go
um whether they're in my organization or not,
and not having any expectations from that
you just never know where those deposits are
coming back to you or where those people are.
Then taking that example that experience,
and making deposits in the equity relationships of
of the young uh
you know the young student
the young entrepreneur
the family member that needs some support,
and encouragement and good advice,
and everybody is paying it forward,
when it comes to business.
I think I'm decisive I think I'm
I think I make decisions,
and then I am not afraid to revisit those decisions,
and not in something that would drive me crazy
like a chaotic form where I'm deciding this,
and then the next minute I'm deciding that
or I've had some experience with partners.
They decide something,
but they are always looking over their shoulder
trying to figure out well
was this decision right or wrong,
and you're not really truly committed to it
you're not surfing the wave
you're wondering if the wave behind you was bigger
or not um
I find that
managing in the rearview mirror is not very helpful.
At all,
so I try to spend most of my time in the windshield and
uh paying attention to the
the moment of now,
there was a point in time where I used to wonder.
Where there is a tradition in America
that some of us old enough to remember
the company you retired at
was the company you started at,
and you got a gold watch,
and you had an entire career there,
and then then
it became this era,
where you had more short stint careers,
and you're climbing the ladder,
and you had to leave your organization,
and go somewhere else in order to get new skills?
Responsibilities or to advance.
Um,
and I had been presented more than once with why
why don't you just
continue in the transportation industry
or why don't you just continue in the software industry
or how about the satellite communications industry
you're an expert in textiles now
you're literally.
As close to a functioning expert in textiles
I am um
maybe as I as I care or need to be,
but gosh um
then I would I would start a different company
that was doing something completely different
that I was interested in short sea shipping.
It's not that I got bored,
and it's not that I knew everything
about that industry,
but the velocity of learning slowed down,
as I applied all my business expertise,
and then all my I gotta learn this and figure this out
uh practical hands on experience.
These are intense learning periods at a startup
or when you're trying to create another division
or another product in your company,
and I just really like the
the volume,
and intensity of learning something from scratch
brand new I also think that it tends to keep me from uh
I don't.
I don't enter that industry with a bunch of stale ideas
about what can or can't be done,
because I've not been in that industry before,
so I wind up getting lucky once or twice by having uh
no preconceived notions yeah
it's a beautiful characterization.
I would say because it's so much connects
the way you behave and you organise,
and what you do with how you are.
Well, how you generally see yourself as a persona,
and what intention and interests
you have to learn to develop yourself um
what we initially talked about
well those leadership skills
they are I would say essentially well
abilities to decide.
Even despite a lack of full knowledge of everything,
and an instant moment with the available information.
To continue to go on,
and I think that life essentially is a process
it's a constant flux of
of movement of a ongoing decision that you have to make
I've definitely seen companies that
were so rigid in their approach
this is the way we've done things.
That the entire culture of the company is cement,
and they're believing it too
this is the way it's done,
and they're brittle and inflexible and
you know that's a problem
great things can come out of very minor adjustments
uh if you do something for 100 years.
Um, and it's perfect
well yes
maybe you are still able to improve it slightly,
but do not fall short on the Assumption that
things are not changing and yes
some areas are indeed rather stable,
but most I would say are not,
so make for yourself.
Be for yourself flexible in deciding what's
what to adjust and what not to,
so tell me a story from these
one of these 21 entrepreneurs
something that you
think you can sanitize and share with the audience.
What was the funniest thing that you experienced
um while you were doing these studies,
an entrepreneur um
from a very humble background and he started with a
with a friend um
in uh social social care services
um built
uh his first company um
another one?
Another one was still well engaged and involved in
in all the prior ones,
and he saw this very much as a learning cycle,
because in the end
well when I spoke him after I think he was there 10 10
15 years ago.
Years in this in this trajectory and then he said well
I decided for myself to move into
into investments and seeing actually more not only as
um yeah
capital investments he was interested in,
but actually well smart capital,
so combined with business coaching.
Combined with his own guidance to well
actually develop companies
not only provide them with uh,
as angel investor with some some capital injection,
but with his knowledge that he had he gained and he uh
he's now uh also an external advisor to um
to a major bank here in the Netherlands and I was.
I thought well
this is actually quite fascinating to see
is that people see,
their knowledge base as stepping stones to work new
new levels new activities and um
he was very given his very humble um
background he was very open to be to be uh
approached by by others uh
seeking his assistance he never uh yeah.
There was no doubt that he was uh
willing to participate in my own research,
because Emilio said well.
Dude I'm
I'm fully yours and I
despite the fact that you had a very
full agenda for everything,
but come and share,
and let's talk about it and reflect on this one,
and I thought that this combination was uh
was for me at least uh
one of the most enjoyable.
You know
you talked there briefly about he had a full agenda
I live with a very full agenda,
I'm reflecting back
my wife said something to me last week
she said Mark.
You have more tabs open in your
in the computer of your mind than anybody I've ever met,
and she likened it to like,
and I right now I have in on front of my screens here
I have 30 or 40 open tabs and it can get worse.
I also have systems that I use for this
I my AI brain
you know things that I've
I've developed to be a resource for me and,
and they just help me cinch things down
finish things up
get it to a point where the next decision can be made.
Or the goal is achieved so I'm
I'm thinking about the nature of being goal oriented,
but I'm not just going after goals
I'm aggressively pursuing the things I'm curious about.
I'm feeling what I'm not good at,
and deciding to try to get out of my comfort zone,
and go do more of that
until I'm no longer uncomfortable with it,
and so I use discomfort as a windsock,
and I'll lean into the wind.
And then it's coming from this direction,
and I'm feeling ill prepared.
Uh, like I don't know enough,
and I'm going to just go
lean in that direction and pursue that curiosity
until I discover that
there's really nothing to worry about
or there's
there's really an opportunity here or there's not right
we have to discover and determine that
there's not opportunity there.
Um, yeah
I'm I'm I'm.
I'm sitting with this idea that uh
finishing what you start is a superpower.
Um,
being able to track.
Multiple
human contributions and system contributions to
a thing that is organised,
as a business.
Being able to be organised
we talk about it in the
in terms of business leadership always
we talk about successful delegation,
and we talk about recruiting and talent.
But I think you cannot hold on to every little detail,
as a parallel entrepreneur
it forces you to fully delegate and
operate in your superpowers,
and that is
I'm getting as much out of this conversation
I hope as as our
our listeners are because I'm.
I'm feeling like oh wow.
Being forced to completely delegate because that
it is necessary,
in order that I can continue to pursue my curiosities.
I think that is a part of why organizations
come up and get born and live and survive
in my wake I think
there wasn't a single
entrepreneur that I spoke with in my uh
in my sample.
That did not
fundamentally acknowledge and point to the necessity,
to rely trust on other people,
and being willing to delegate a responsibility.
Still share responsibility
of course being finally the last one who is well
accountable for things going into a wrong direction,
but sharing the
the great moments together with your team,
and being willing to support them
delegating authority moving.
Maybe a little bit to the rear side,
and letting others move forward.
Their attitude toward obstacles is also different.
They don't run up against an impossibility
I see,
so many people get up against a block and just stop.
Most of the time
talking themselves out of something that they began,
as a journey a business a
a vision and just talking themselves out of it
I actually think we talk ourselves out
of great opportunities more than we get close to them,
and in my own experience.
I've seen parallel entrepreneurs tend to be
more capable of,
and more flexible in their approach to growth,
where it's not just organic growth,
and they're busting Teaster trying to get
you know this 10
20% 30% whatever the
whatever the organic growth number looks like,
and yet now.
They think about mergers,
and acquisitions as a methodology of growth
do you see that in your research
we saw in multiple instances where indeed
mergers and acquisitions so as strategic investments
either in related or unrelated companies.
Um, was something that people actively pursued,
and saw this as a what it's frequently called a lateral
a growth strategy so not only growing in terms of um
the core business company to
to well
to form a conglomerate so to speak,
but more also as a way to well.
To strategically invest in certain areas where
financial resources
slack resources were available and more important um,
and a certain intellectual interest,
and fit with one's own capabilities
makes sense to actually pursue a strategic investment,
so I think it had to meet more than one requirement.
To be an active uh
acquisition strategy
mergers and acquisitions are growth.
Through finding synergies in the acquired entity
that has been combined with
or that consumes your entity,
and you still have a part to play in it
it does sort of give you the one benchmark for,
when you start a company and sell a company.
That value that you created
you're being prepaid for the next several years
of potential that
that you created,
and brought to a point that then became acquired
or became the acquirer,
and those are some of the benchmarks for how we view
whether we were successful or not,
and I tend to look at
success from a lot of different lenses.
Not just a financial exit but
you know how did I impact my community
how did I how did I grow.
Years later some wonderful employee
or team member might contact me,
and talk about the lessons that they Learned
in this window of time that they're just now uh
feeling as accessible to them like hmm,
and I Learned this and I'd
I'd like to attribute that to you and thank you.
You know it's a real gratifying part of just living a
a contributor's life
I feel like it's not just about the money.
For any of the entrepreneurs that I speak to and,
and increasingly,
when they're tend to be more parallel entrepreneurs
I don't find that they're doing parallel
entrepreneurship for the money.
I find that they're doing it in order to completely
satisfy what it is that drives them internally
they found a formula that works,
they have some pattern recognition skill sets,
and some leadership skill sets that work,
and why not just start another company.
Why not where those those parallel portfolio
entrepreneurs that I spoke with um
I think sooner or later we always reach a point where
somebody made a joke about his
or her well
diversity of interests and that they found?
Well, um
an efficient way to keep themselves out of a pub or to
um well,
and an another entrepreneur confessed to me that well
he was just initiating new companies.
Even if it wasn't necessary at all uh
given his financial background.
Just because he did not want to annoy his wife
all day long and sitting at home or golf was too well
too boring to do seven days a week,
and should not be too much to do,
because two or three days a week was just perfect.
To him so there was this
always this play of what's,
what's a hobby uh
how much do I value my own um time
my my
my hobby interest my precious moments that I care for,
but always in combination of well.
It's also good for me to have something um
on my plate to do to figure out how it works
to learn to well
get my teeth into because otherwise yeah
my wife kicks me out because I get too annoying at home
or I start cleaning.
Who knows the
the backside of the bookshelves every second day,
and something like that
what was the pattern that you saw in the entrepreneurs
that you studied and how they dealt with stress?
Saw a number of uh
instances where people were very actively.
Uh, addressing the fact what they did for um
both physical as mental health.
And this could be everything
um ranging from um
frequent regular workouts
endurance sport uh
indeed yoga,
indeed people were always well,
driven by some things where they could.
Uh, physically
well
switch their mind off the brain and do something else
go swimming every day uh
in the morning first thing um
going for walks for business lunch
uh instead of well
taking taking a seat somewhere.
And I thought that this this was really intriguing,
because it's so much reveals with my own pattern
with what I also do just to yeah.
I always like to do each and every day something,
and I'm not an expert I'm not a full athlete and also,
but I do like to have a workout in the morning
I do like my running
I do like my yoga and those things do well.
Just have to happen without well
much much of an effort and,
and those portfolio entrepreneurs.
They each and every one
found something that they deeply cared for,
and it was I would say
practically impossible to imagine,
a good and healthy life to them
without those kind of physical moments of relaxing.
For me
it's getting up in the morning and going to hot yoga
it has to be the immovable object
then I start my day so
I just don't allow anything to start
until after this period of time,
and sometimes I find that they get involved in uh
competitive sports like cycling or triathlon.
Or something that requires some dedication,
and they may not try to be first place finishers
many of them do but I also find that they
that just is getting something on the calendar um
one of my guests Joe Desena recently said
you just gotta get something on the calendar,
and you always have a goal for that,
and for business person.
It might be the quarterly report
it might be the annual it might be the annual report
it might be L10 for your EOS operating companies
it could be something as simple as board meetings,
but they're always on the calendar,
and so are your physical your dead.
The dedication to your physical part of your body,
and this lived experience
I think and I think it can be quite complementary
I mean most people were very much aware to
to have social contacts besides their well
let's say commercial or more business related interests,
and each and every one addressed the fact that it was,
so important to talk with their spouses.
Family members children
not only about business related,
but also about just well.
Having good time together just well
to root and to settle down with all those well,
balls you have to juggle at a daily base,
but besides this mental mind.
Uh, fulfilling fulfilling activities
each and every one had something where well
physical attitudes were playing
having something physically engaging was was important
being able to have a sustainable level of energy.
Think requires certain kind of well care.
So, to speak yeah
a little self care goes a long way.
Well,
thank you for joining me on this extremely interesting
academic and,
and personal exploration of parallel entrepreneurship,
and the portfolio mindset of multipreneurs,
and helping us with our research
that's ongoing and being a resource for myself.
The team and everyone who's listening
Tobias this has been an honor to sit with you,
and I appreciate that
you're on the other side of the world
um and we're
we're working out uh
how we found this time and it's been beautiful
thank you so much for joining us Mark.
It was a huge pleasure to meet
thank you hey
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