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Are you a passionate veterinarian seeking to elevate your practice and make a lasting impact in the field?
Welcome to "The Vet'Ed Podcast". Join Steven Hermann, Kale Flaspohler and Lindo Zwane - industry experts and thought leaders, as they delve into tailored strategies and nurturing relationships to empower privately owned veterinary practices.
Tune in the first and third Wednesday of the month to gain invaluable insights, tips, and inspiration to thrive in your independent clinic. Together, let's build a community dedicated to advancing veterinary care. Subscribe now and embark on a journey towards lasting success in your practice.
Are you
Steven:ready? Are you ready for podcast?
Alex:I love it. You ready
Steven:for the Vetted podcast?
Alex:The one, the only.
Steven:That's right. That's right. I think this guy over here has an introduction ready to roll.
Alex:Heck yeah.
Kale:Let's do it. No. Absolutely. So, Alex, thank you so much for for being on today. We are super thrilled to have you.
Kale:You were one of the original like, when we were planning this out, you were one of the original people that were like, we have to have her on. It's fun.
Alex:Thank
Kale:you. Finally glad that we got to got to do this.
Alex:Yeah. I'm happy to be here.
Kale:You know, you have quite a history at at Ellisville, and you've been there since 02/2009, we believe. So it says on your
Alex:website bio.
Kale:That's true.
Steven:You know, it says on your wiki page.
Alex:So you You googled me.
Kale:We did. We did Google you. So,
Steven:you know, we've known you
Kale:for a long time. We're really happy to talk to you today. But what do you think it's important to what what out of your bio is the most important to you?
Alex:Oh, wow. Probably my longevity. I've been there a really long time. And when I started there, I was I was only 17. When I started working at EVH, actually doctor Whitehead and I, our first week at EVH was the same week.
Kale:Was it really?
Alex:It was. Yeah.
Kale:Okay. I didn't know that.
Alex:Yeah. We became really fast friends. I mean, I was in high school, so I worked there part time. And then when I was in college, I worked there full time. I left for a couple years, did some management opportunity elsewhere.
Alex:And then I came back as practice manager and, it's always felt like home. It's really crazy because I never thought like my career would be where I had my first part time job. But everyone there is so special, and I think there's a lot to be said about that.
Kale:Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. No. That's that's exciting.
Kale:So so tell us about your family a little bit where you get started.
Alex:Wow. My grandmother is actually the previous hospital manager. So that's how I started working there in high school. I have three younger brothers. I am married.
Alex:My husband is in beverage sales. I have a four year old daughter. Her name is Lily. And I have a whole horde of rescue animals that get brought to the hospital and have nowhere else to go. So I bring them home.
Kale:That's not unlike anyone else. Not unlike any anybody else there.
Alex:It's hard not to I don't know anyone in the industry who doesn't collect all the sad little forlorn Sarah McLaughlin APA commercial creatures.
Kale:That's the saddest commercial.
Alex:It really is.
Kale:By the way too. It's like it ruins the whole
Alex:It does.
Kale:The whole whatever you're watching.
Alex:The whole vibe.
Kale:Yeah. It's terrible. Everyone's like, turn it
Alex:off. Exactly.
Kale:Yeah. Get it off the television. So awesome. Well, again, yeah, thanks for thanks for coming today. And and I think really what we wanted to highlight, you're the first practice manager we've had on here.
Kale:No way. So I think I think the goal for today is to talk about the ins and outs of being a practice and and everything that they're that that that that comes with. Awesome. So so I guess the first question to get into that, why why did you start working at the clinic? Was veterinary medicine always the the vision for you to work in that in some capacity?
Kale:Or what what was that vision?
Alex:Yeah. I am actually probably one of the anomalies in the industry that I do love animals and I do care so deeply for animals. But I genuinely love people. I love working with people. I love supporting people.
Alex:I love helping people. I you know, when I was younger I had so many different things that I thought I'd be doing with my life. I really wanted to be a nurse. But life circumstances happen and that just wasn't in the cards. And so I actually I grew up and I lived on the street that the hospital's located at.
Alex:So I started working there because I could walk and it was really close and it was easy. And like I said, my grandmother was the hospital manager there at the time. And so they were really flexible to my school hours. Plus who doesn't want somebody that's gonna work every single Saturday? But I fell in love with the clients and I think there's something really amazing in vet med that yes, you are supportive of the animals and yes, that is their care.
Alex:But you're caring for someone and something that is so important to these people. You're caring for their best friends. You're caring for their companions. You're caring for their support. And so I love being in the human side of it.
Alex:I love connecting with the owners. I love, you know, hearing their stories, their journeys. I probably know way too much about a lot of our clients. Like, they'll walk in and I'm like, oh, how was, you know, your grandma's procedure? How's your daughter doing?
Alex:All those fun things. So I definitely love that side of it.
Kale:Yeah. Absolutely. So when you started and and you made the transition from, you know, what was your first role at the practice and how did that grow?
Alex:I was a receptionist first. And then I transitioned into like a lead receptionist front office manager, and then I transitioned into the full practice manager.
Kale:Gotcha. So what was the time period of that switch?
Alex:Oh, let's see. I was a receptionist for four years, and then I was like a front office manager for seven months, and then full practice manager since 02/2015.
Kale:Since 02/2015? Yeah. Okay.
Alex:It'll be ten years this year.
Kale:Yeah. How'd you get that promotion?
Alex:Our previous hospital manager walked out.
Kale:So Which was your grandmother?
Alex:Yes. Okay. It was a very abrupt retirement. But I think me just kind of being thrown into the role was I'm a quick learner. I think fast on my feet and I'm like, yeah, no, we can absolutely handle any situation.
Alex:So I think kind of being thrown into it was the best transition I could have ever had. Just because for me it was, you know, okay, I don't have a choice. Like we're doing this. We're going all in. We are fully committed.
Alex:Mhmm. Yeah. I left the office at 3PM on a Thursday as the front office manager and I walked in at 7AM on Friday as the practice manager.
Steven:When was that?
Alex:That was in October of twenty fifteen.
Steven:Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Steven:Pre pre Zach owning the practice.
Alex:Pre Zach. Yep. Yep. And then he took over ownership in September 2019. Mhmm.
Alex:So yeah.
Steven:Yeah. That's awesome.
Alex:It was a big shift. But it was it was awesome. You know, definitely not every water we walked through was smooth. Lots of like learning curves there. But previous owner doctor Smith, he was super supportive, offered a lot of guidance.
Alex:And obviously, you know, working with doctor Whitehead and, you know, we had worked together for so long at that point. He was definitely like a good shoulder to lean on in those trying times. But, you know, it was it was fun. You know, lots of memories. That's for sure.
Alex:But yeah.
Kale:So walking walking out of the clinic one day Mhmm. And then walking back in as as everyone's technically, everyone's boss. What was that like?
Alex:It was I think the hardest part about it was the previous office manager was my grandmother. Yes. So a lot of people thought that I was given that because she was my grandma. I think that was really hard. I also think another really challenging aspect was my age.
Alex:Mhmm. I was only 24.
Steven:Okay.
Alex:But I definitely feel like you know physically and mentally I operate a lot older than I am. I don't really like to talk to my age to a lot of people because I feel like I want you to get to know me before you know the number associated with me. I think that was really challenging because at the time a lot of our staff was older.
Steven:Mhmm.
Alex:But I think, know, definitely as every hospital knows like staffing can be a big challenge. So definitely there were trials and tribulations and there were a lot of people who really, you know, wanted to push the boundaries. But I just I had to I had to grow like a spine really quick. And I'm definitely one of those people like I will be very direct. I will always be positive.
Alex:But I had to I had to learn really quickly how to have those difficult conversations with people. And I think that was definitely the hardest part for me. Cause I wanna be supportive all the time and I wanna be positive all the time. And you know, when you're 24, you want everyone to like you and you wanna be friends with everybody, but you have to quickly learn that that's not the case.
Kale:Absolutely. How how did you overcome that? Like, how did you how did you go in and say, hey, this is a super uncomfortable conversation that I have never had before with somebody. Yeah. And how did you how did you
Alex:I mean, I'm really transparent. I think the best thing you can be in the world is vulnerable. I would walk in, I would be like, hey, you know what? I'm gonna be honest. This is the first time I'm having to have a tough conversation.
Alex:So if I mess this up, please tell me. But I don't want to have to have these difficult conversations with you. I don't want to have to be the bad guy. I want all of us to be able to show up. I want all of us to be able to be successful.
Alex:And at the end of the day, like we are compensated to do these tasks. So if we could please just do them with grace, if we could please be courteous, if we could please be kind, that would make everyone's lives a lot easier. And then I don't have to be a person I don't wanna be.
Kale:And and you did that from day one.
Alex:I still have those conversations. Like, I think being vulnerable and honest about, like, I don't wanna be a bad guy. Like, at the end of the day, get I am your boss, but I'm here to support all of means you continue through vet med or whether that means you decide you wanna do something else in this life, I will always support you because I appreciate who you are as a person. And I have helped employees find other jobs because it's not what gives them joy. And yes, that is hard for me.
Alex:But at the end of the day, every you everybody gets one shot at life. Like, need to be happy. So
Steven:Amen.
Alex:Yeah. I know. I know that's probably a really unconventional outlook. Like, you don't wanna help employees find other roles. But, you know, I just everyone wants to be happy.
Steven:Everybody does. Some of the best companies recognize that, that if you're not happy here, let's find where you are
Alex:happy. Exactly.
Steven:So and, you know, goes out and if you wanna be kind and joy and full and all those kinds of things, that spreads that way. Yeah. That's important. Alright. Practice managers.
Steven:Yeah. It's like what is that, right?
Alex:Many hats.
Steven:Yeah. And in the veterinary industry, I mean, is CBPM. Mhmm. Right? And a certified veterinary practice manager.
Steven:They can get that out there. But I'd say that there's I mean, there's less of those in the country than any other position, right, that have that, that understand the practice management. So your grandmother Mhmm. Practice manager, did she have those things? Did she like like what what was her training?
Steven:Like like, did she have a manual she left you behind? Was it No. Or just blank slate?
Alex:I think it was definitely like a generational thing. Her generation was very much like the I learned a lot of wonderful things from her. Let me back up. I learned a lot of wonderful things, but I also learned a lot of like leadership skills and life values of unfortunately like how not to lead people. I definitely think there's a whole generation, that their mentality was you lead by fear.
Alex:You lead through strict discipline. And that was never a person that I wanted to be. Obviously, there are policies, there's structure, there's discipline that's necessary. But I like to lead by growing people. I want to lead by supporting people.
Alex:And I think it took a lot of years of, not from the vet hospital, but just in all walks of life, From certain levels of like professional trauma that shaped me into the leader I wanted to be. If that makes sense.
Steven:Yeah. You've learned
Alex:Yeah. From experience. You learn and you grow. And there are definitely moments in my life that have shaped me to be, you know, like, oh, I remember somebody having a conversation like this and how it made me feel. And I don't ever wanna make anybody feel that way.
Steven:Mhmm.
Alex:And I know, you know, through the ups and downs of the many facets of veterinary medicine from, you know, recession to the pandemic and literally living through vet med through all of those different phases. You have to, you have to grow with your team and you have to learn about, you know, their personalities and their learning styles and how they receive constructive criticism. And it's just, it's an ever changing, ever evolving animal of its own.
Steven:You started in the recession.
Alex:I did.
Steven:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got hired in.
Alex:I got hired in In the recession. During the recession.
Steven:17 year old. Cheaper cheaper labor.
Alex:Exactly. Let's find the most affordable employee. Oh, wait. She's a relative. We can give her just a little less.
Alex:Exactly.
Steven:And she lives down the
Alex:street And she lives down the street. She doesn't even drive yet. Checks the boxes. Exactly.
Steven:No. I I think that's an interesting point about practice management. Know, is that so many practice owners want a practice manager.
Alex:Mhmm.
Steven:But yeah, it's like you can't just hire a practice manager.
Alex:No. I think the best thing to do if a practice doesn't have a practice manager is to evolve someone that's already in your practice. Someone that's already committed to your business, someone that's already committed to your culture. Because you're then you're just growing their skills and they are already a part of, you know, your practice family. I think that's the best thing.
Alex:I mean, I'm not saying people can't hire in from the outside, but I think it's so much more beneficial when you have somebody who understands who you are as a business and who you are as, you know, as veterinarians, as technicians, as client care representatives. Because then they're just, they're just fine tuning their skills. They're not having to, you know, slide into the culture, slide into the team. And it helps. I think it can be a blessing and a curse when they're already a part of the team.
Alex:But if, you know, the long term intention is for them to grow, then that's super beneficial.
Steven:Good.
Kale:I I think anybody that doesn't have a practice manager aspires to have one. I think there's so many different definitions of what a practice manager does or could do or or should be. What do you what do you think in your opinion? What what's the most important attributes of a practice manager and what do they bring a practice? It went to be successful.
Alex:Absolutely. I mean, I think for me, it's definitely a huge balance of having somebody who is effective with the doctors. Someone who is effective with the staff, effective with the clients. Definitely every single day I'm there, I'm doing different things. It can be inventory management.
Alex:It can be, you know, paperwork, bills, payroll, you know, supply ordering, running errands, like very simple things. But I think at the end of the day, it it's somebody who is an advocate for everyone internally in the hospital with the per with the practice owners, but also somebody who's always gonna advocate for the clients. Once people ask me like what I do, I'm like, I don't know. What do I what do I not do? I do many things.
Alex:But at the end of the day, like I try to look globally from like all perspectives. So if you know, a team member is frustrated with a certain situation trying to put myself in their shoes and see you know, how can we develop these protocols? How can we grow? How can we change so that these frustrations don't happen? Or if a client is frustrated trying to put myself in their shoes and say, okay, I understand why they're frustrated.
Alex:How can we grow our team to explain the value of what we do so that, know, they aren't frustrated about how much money they're spending, but then they see the value of who we are. It's ever changing. It's something different every day. You know, yesterday we were having a team lunch and picking out samples for our new practice. And then today I was answering emails on my way here and making phone calls and, you know, Thursday can be totally different.
Steven:Does that practice in the name? Like, it's a practice like
Alex:It's a whole practice.
Steven:Every day.
Alex:Every day. New. You're practicing Yep. Learning. Every single day.
Steven:You're managing that.
Alex:Exactly. It's in the name.
Steven:It is. It's
Alex:exactly what
Steven:we're What does she do?
Kale:It's in the name. It's in the name. Yeah.
Alex:I practice managing every day.
Kale:It it's true, though.
Alex:It is.
Kale:I mean, you I mean, you said it earlier. It's you don't always know.
Alex:I don't.
Kale:And and you're never gonna know. Yeah. Right. It's like, hey. I'm trying this for the first time.
Kale:Yeah. Let's see how this goes.
Alex:I'll try
Kale:my best.
Alex:Some days I could be answering phones. A couple times I've been pulled in to hold something for surgery. I mean, it's all over the place.
Steven:Do you have an ideal week though? Like, you know, certain things need to happen like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, like, you break it out that way. You do have that though. It's like
Alex:I do.
Steven:Accomplished. I mean
Alex:Yeah. I have my daily tasks. I'm a notorious list maker. I cannot function without my handwritten little notebook and handwritten little list, which is so archaic. But every single day I sit down and I make my like to do list and you know if I could if I could go back and tell like baby practice manager Alex like your to do list does not have to be done every single day.
Alex:I remember I would sit there and like work through my lunch and stay late and be like I have to check everything off this list. And that is such an unrealistic expectation. So you know, now it's like, oh well I got you know 10 out of the 15 things done, we'll do the other five tomorrow. My list is never done. But Yeah.
Alex:Stuff is getting marked off.
Steven:Well especially if things come up
Alex:Exactly.
Steven:During the day that you have to attend to as the manager Mhmm. To manage the practice. Yeah.
Alex:Absolutely.
Steven:The list is gonna go off to the side and Yeah. It can wait. Yeah. It can wait.
Alex:And there are things that get prioritized. And, you know, I think I'm so grateful to have so many supportive people in our practice. We have a lead CSR who is amazing. We have a lead technician who is absolutely incredible. And to have those supportive people in the departments of our practice, it really allows me to step back and focus on the bigger picture items.
Alex:And definitely having those roles was of, I'm very type A. It was a very hard thing for me to be like, go ahead. You can that's fine. You can do it. But they really have shown me that they are so supportive and they are so gifted at what they do.
Alex:And having people like that that you can hand stuff off to and delegate and trust is essential. I couldn't live without them.
Kale:What was it like letting go of some of those things?
Alex:Oh my gosh. It was awful. I mean, I'm still like, I'm a notorious I I am not a micromanager, but I'm always like, I'll double check that if you want me to. If you want me to I can look at it. No, but they're awesome.
Alex:I've worked with the two of them for a very long time and so they know my personality and they know who I am and they're like I think sometimes they sometimes will ask me for help just because they know what makes me feel good. But yeah, no, they're amazing.
Kale:That's awesome. To do list. Yeah. I wanna go back to that. What do you think a lot a lot of times, what tasks fall to a practice manager that shouldn't?
Kale:Oh. Or that should stay in a different department.
Alex:Yeah. I definitely think one thing that probably a lot of practice managers get on their workload every single day that they could delegate is client frustration. Frustrated client like phone calls things like that. Definitely if a client has expressed a grievance about you know their invoice or a circumstance. I always want to talk to you.
Alex:But I think having a CSR who feels empowered to have those difficult conversations, who feels confident in them, is one of the best assets you can have for your practice. Somebody who doesn't shy away from somebody who's really gruff and really angry. Cause I know for me prior to having somebody who was confident in those conversations, I could talk to upset clients five to 20 times a week. Now I maybe get one to two a week. And it's usually just, know, somebody who wants to go as high as they can.
Alex:Mhmm. And I also think having a practice owner who has instilled trust in a practice manager is huge. A lot of times they'll be like, I wanna talk to your owner. And he's like, don't know what you think I'm gonna do. You should talk to Alex.
Alex:Which for me, I always laugh. And I'm so grateful for because he really is so trusting and he puts a lot of faith in who I am and what I do, which it's invaluable.
Steven:How do those calls end typically?
Alex:Oh, I love them. I literally have one yesterday and I'm one of those people like the angrier you get the happier I am. I try to remain like as positive as possible. Because there's no reason in getting frustrated. I totally I I hear your upset.
Alex:I hear your frustration. But at the end of the day, I'm here to support you. And that is what I will say to them. Know, my job is to be your advocate. So please get as angry as you need to.
Alex:But there are also times where they will get so frustrated that I have said to clients you know I understand your frustration but this conversation is not productive so why don't we end this phone call and we can reconnect at another time when you know, tempers are leveled, and no one is upset. And then typically they're completely flabbergasted. They're like, oh, you're just, you're gonna hang up? Oh, Yes, I am. Thank you so much for your time.
Alex:I'll call you tomorrow at nine. But you know, it's just, I think it's just advocating and explaining the value. So this woman who I spoke with yesterday, she was upset about, her separate charges and they had come in for a technician appointment and we're getting a couple vaccines and some blood work and she's like, I don't understand why I had to pay for a technician appointment. I was like, well, know, you and your pet did spend twenty minutes with one of our licensed registered technicians who do go to school for this training and what they do is beyond anything I could do. And it does take two or three of them to manage your pet since they are a little nervous.
Alex:So I think just explaining in extreme detail the whole premise of every single thing that we do. I think a lot of clients get frustrated because they don't understand. They don't they just see items and numbers. They don't understand everything that goes into that. And I feel like in vet med, we forget that a lot.
Alex:We just see it as, oh, we're renting charges and it's $300 check them, send them out. But I know, you know, if I got a $300 bill for my daughter, I wouldn't understand any of it. So taking the time, like explain, slow down.
Steven:So maybe those calls turn into opportunities for training.
Alex:Absolutely. Yeah. And one thing we're really fortunate, all of our calls are recorded. So it's really great to I try to listen to those randomly throughout the week if I have time. Just because, you know, it's a great learning opportunity.
Alex:A lot of times when you're on the phone, they don't realize, you know, the things they're saying. And to revisit that and be like, here's what we could have said. I understand you know why the response was this, but if we had taken an extra two minutes, we could have provided a lot more understanding.
Steven:I love what you said. Said, hey, let's have a good conversation basically what you're telling the
Alex:Yeah.
Steven:Person on the phone. Yeah. I understand you're upset. Mhmm. But let's all be cool and chill.
Steven:You're not, call me back when you are.
Alex:Absolutely.
Steven:Because then we can be productive.
Alex:Absolutely. I'm an over communicator. Like, you know, people don't know what they don't know. So I'm gonna give you every detail that I can.
Steven:You just said what your job is as a practice manager. Mhmm. It's over communicating.
Alex:I am an over communicator. That's what
Steven:your job is though.
Alex:It
Steven:is. Because to this day, like Kale said, you're still saying that thing today? Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm.
Steven:Yeah. You're talking about being joy and you know, having being kind and all those things. You gotta say that all the time. Yeah. You can't assume that it's just in there and running.
Alex:Oh, no. And I and I'm the first to admit not every day for me is a good day, but I'm gonna do my and I will admit, I'm like, you guys, I'm a little off today. So if we have somebody really grumpy, ask them if I can call them tomorrow. But I think just being vulnerable, being authentic, just we're all out here doing the best we can.
Kale:Yeah. That's great. Mhmm. Well, as no one wants to deal with a with a upset client. Like, it's just not a fun part of your day.
Kale:Yeah. But how did how did you get how did you get your team to be able to take those calls without having to having to bother you? Because that's that's just not something that a lot of people wanna deal with or feel confident to deal with. So how did you get your people to be able to
Alex:do Yeah, I definitely think a lot of patients and a lot of training. Anytime someone will come to me and say, hey, this client's really upset. They're on line one, here's what they're upset about. I would say, great. What I'm gonna do is we're gonna go in the office, I'm gonna close the door and we're gonna listen to the I would love you to listen to this conversation on speakerphone, so that in the future if you ever cross this bridge you feel more empowered to have that conversation yourself.
Alex:You know, I definitely have some CSRs who are not confident in that aspect. I have some team members who are not confident, and I have others who like love to have those difficult conversations. I think a huge part is, you know, taking everyone's individual skills and maximizing those skills. You know, some people love to work on the computer, some people don't. Some people love to do inventory, some people don't.
Alex:So I think definitely maximizing the assets of what your team brings to the table. And I have one amazing CSR who loves to have difficult conversations just like me. And when we would take those on speaker phone in the office, she's like, oh my gosh, I love this. I'm learning so much. I'm like, great.
Alex:That's the whole point. That's the intention. We're all here to learn. We're all here to grow. Yeah.
Alex:That's awesome. Thanks.
Kale:Yeah. I love that. I I Is there a level of permissions where you guys have said like, hey, you're well, you're able to do x y and z until it gets to this level and then I need to know about it. Absolutely. What do those look like?
Alex:I mean, obviously during COVID, lot of things change. We had to implement like a no harassment policy during COVID because a lot of pet owners got really, really angry and really frustrated and to a point where it was unacceptably disrespectful.
Steven:Okay.
Alex:Like if they start yelling, if they use any profanity, if they threaten, any nature of that, like respectfully, I we've told our team, I do not care if you just hang up on them without saying anything. You need to escalate that above. Because at the end of the day, like, yes, you are here to support. Yes, you are here to provide customer service. You are not here to be berated and abused.
Alex:That is not your job. That is not my job. But it is my job to keep you all safe and keep you all respected. And they are so amazing about passing those up the chain.
Steven:Well, the client is king until they become a
Alex:tyrant. Exactly. I like that. Yeah. Throw that on a
Kale:t shirt. I think unfortunately, that was a lot of clinics during COVID. Had the same the same sentiment.
Alex:It is.
Kale:So I think it's really awesome that you guys and I knew the answer because we talked about this all the time. But I I love the fact that you guys empowered everybody to be like, hey, don't take that from somebody. Yeah. It Because they're having a bad day doesn't mean that they get to put that on.
Alex:It's true. But I also think it was really hard because there's so many people in VetMed that were trained and built on the premise of the client is always right. Oh that makes my eye twitch. But and I understand that perspective to an extent but that doesn't mean that they're allowed to be abusive. Mhmm.
Alex:The client can be right but they can also be wrong in how they're approaching it.
Steven:Well, they should we're we're there to serve the client.
Alex:Correct.
Steven:That's what they're to do. Mhmm. But doesn't mean we're there to take abuse.
Alex:Exactly. And and I think Vetmed as a whole unfortunately does get a lot of abuse, which is really hard to even like say and to understand. Which I do understand. It is a it is an environment where emotions are high. It is an environment where, you know, people are upset, their pets are sick.
Alex:But I also think educating the team to like, it is very hard to get into our day to day. Educating the team to put yourselves in the client's shoes. Like if that was your child, if that was your pet, you would feel the same. And a lot of people lash out from an emotional perspective. So I think the calmer you are, the more patient you are, the easier everything gets.
Alex:Awesome. Yeah.
Kale:Well, yeah. No. And it's great that you guys have been able to limit that over time as well to where you're not having to deal with that very often.
Alex:Yeah. Thankfully.
Kale:Wow. We went a long ways. So the question, the original question, what's something every every practice manager might get put on their plate but shouldn't? Is there anything else?
Alex:Let me think. I think if you can delegate things like ordering. So I'm not at the front desk seeing what food goes in and out all day. Mhmm. I have a CSR who does our food ordering because she's at the front desk.
Alex:She sees everything that goes in and out. We have our head technician who manages all of our pharmaceuticals. She's back there counting and prescribing and working with the doctors all day. It totally makes sense that she's the one who's constantly in those zones of the practice that she does that ordering. And, you know, I also think let me see.
Alex:There's a lot. I mean, I think it's about empowering your team and also understanding their skills. You know? Because I have one CSR who loves to, you know, work in Canva and make stuff for social media. By all means.
Alex:So we have a shared Canva account. She makes stuff for certain holidays and events. And I love that because it gives her joy to do those things, but it also checks something off of my to do list when it comes to marketing and things like that. So I think just getting to know your team and what they what brings them joy in the daily basis. Because, you know, I might not love doing this, but it's part of what I need to do.
Alex:And so in just having those conversations and getting to know them, it can actually take a lot off of what we are expected to do on the regular. Yeah. Perfect. So
Kale:when you since you've been there since since well, pretty much pretty
Alex:much Forever. Forever.
Steven:Yeah.
Kale:You know, you've probably seen the culture ebb and flow of different things. And so talk about how important it is in your opinion to have a culture that works and maybe relate that back to cultures that you've seen that may not have been Yeah. Super positive.
Alex:I mean, if the culture doesn't work, the hospital will never work, Truthfully. You know, when I was there, when I was much younger, the culture was, you know, very much led by fear. Truthfully, it felt very toxic at times. It was, you know, I would get the Sunday scaries where I didn't wanna go in on Mondays sometimes. And I think, you know, keeping everyone level headed.
Alex:Trying to keep everyone on the same page is like the best thing we can do. I also, know, positive culture it has to exist. We got to a point where the culture was so bad that you know, everyone had anxiety, everyone was stressed, nobody wanted to be there. And I think it's because we were hiring a lot of our staff based off skill, not personality. And so, when Zach came over in ownership, we did like a full reset with how the culture felt because we had worked in a negative culture for so long together.
Alex:I can train anybody to do any skill. I can't train you to be a good person. You know, I think what you bring to the table as who you are is so much more important than anything that is teachable. And ever since we made that shift, it is such a happy place to be. It's such a fun place to be.
Alex:And I'm not saying every day is a good day. But at the end of the day, our team thoroughly enjoys spending time with each other. And I think that's really important.
Kale:You can feel it when you walk in
Alex:Yeah.
Kale:To your practice.
Alex:It's a little feral, but it's fun.
Kale:I don't know that I would have said that. Having walked in several several practices from a very objective Mhmm. Point of view, When you walk into your practice, you walk around the back or whatever. I mean, everybody's having a good time. Seems like every it gives the impression that people are happy and wanna be there.
Alex:No, we are. We have fun.
Kale:Yeah. And so I think there are some practices you walk in and it's like, you can tell as a client or as somebody sitting in the waiting room, can observe how people interact and how they talk and how they perceive each other. So I've always felt when I walk into your practice that I feel I feel very welcome.
Alex:Thank you. We we truly we love spending time with each other. Yes. We are each with each other all the time for work. But we also make choices to spend time with each other, you know.
Alex:Well, doctor Whitehead has a pool. So once a summer, we'll do like a fun like pool party. We have a lot of, you know, babies being born in the hospital this year. So we're doing like fun baby showers and birthday parties. And, you know, everybody at the end of the day like enjoys being around each other, which I appreciate.
Steven:It's good.
Alex:Yeah. It is.
Steven:You know, it's interesting. Culture is a buzzword.
Alex:It is.
Steven:Core values buzz two words. And if you look at people think that that's all they needed to get to be successful.
Alex:Mhmm.
Steven:Do you think that could have happened in the prior ownership?
Alex:No. I don't wanna say that, but I don't. I I think I think it's a generational thing. I definitely, you know, I'm getting to the point now where I feel like the old person in the practice. I gotta keep up with the youth.
Steven:So old.
Alex:I have to Google words. I don't know what these things mean anymore.
Steven:You know who Chuck Berry is?
Alex:Yes.
Steven:Okay. Never mind. Doctor Stroop. Do you know Doctor Stroop? Yes.
Steven:She was like, don't know
Kale:who that is. I'm sorry.
Steven:Chuck Berry, not the doctor, but Chuck Berry the musician. Yeah. Okay. So she didn't know that.
Alex:He's from St. Louis.
Steven:Yeah. Didn't know that joke.
Alex:That's a Damn.
Steven:Alright. You're St. Louis. Never mind. Mine didn't work for you.
Steven:Was gonna say, so you're young. You don't know that is.
Alex:Yeah. No. I definitely think it it it is a generational thing, not in a negative way. But I think, you know, from a older perspective it was, it's your job to be here. It's, you know, you get paid to be here and that's all it is.
Alex:When that's not the case anymore. People wanna prioritize mental health. People want work life balance. You know, people want it to be more than just something they're compensated to do. They want it to be fun.
Alex:They wanna have joy when they come to work. They're they're not just showing up for a paycheck anymore. They're showing up for, you know, the friendships. They're showing up for the fun. And at the end of the day, vet med's hard.
Alex:It is emotionally taxing. There's a lot of mental fatigue that comes with that. So you know, in a leadership role, whether you're a practice manager, whether you're a practice owner, prioritizing your staff's well-being and mental health has to be the top priority when it comes to running a business. That's the only way you'll ever be successful. Because like, the team is the foundation of who you are and what you do.
Alex:Yes, the clients are. Yes, the patients are. But without the team, you don't have clients and patients. So we work really hard at that.
Steven:It's kind of hard to look at because when doctor White had bought, COVID happens.
Alex:Yeah.
Steven:And so you don't really get to take a look at pre Doctor. Whitehead as an owner and culture
Alex:Yeah.
Steven:Host. But you kinda do.
Alex:Yeah.
Steven:What do you I mean, it's a is it a new world?
Alex:It is. It is. We were very fortunate during COVID that we lived in a little bubble. And we actually grew our team during COVID. We didn't lose clients.
Alex:We didn't lose staff. But I have to commend him for being a baby owner during COVID because that was hard. Mhmm. I remember him and I having late night phone calls and planning, okay, we have team a, we have team b. If someone gets sick, we're doing, you know, we can only shut down team a, we can still run on TB.
Alex:We're gonna cut our hours. We're gonna close for lunch. We're gonna do curbside. We had every plan for every possible scenario except for having to grow our team and grow our business by 32%. None of that was the plan, which was the best thing to happen.
Alex:But I remember it was it was a lot. And you know, we tried to do a lot during COVID, that we still implement to this day. We provide, you know, snacks and drinks and fully stock a break room for our staff full time that started during COVID, so that people didn't have to like go out and leave. We reduced our hours, which we've kept since.
Kale:How did that go for the business? I was gonna ask you about that.
Alex:Oh, yeah. So when I look back and think about we used to be open eight to seven Monday through Thursday, eight to five on Fridays, and we didn't close for lunch. I don't know how we did that. And we operated on twenty minute appointments. And then when COVID happened, we extended to thirty minute appointments.
Alex:And then we shifted to eight to five because we didn't want people doing curbside in the dark. And then we started closing for lunch so that everybody could just go outside, get some vitamin D, take a deep breath. And then after COVID truly operating on those, like what I like to say, like human physician based hours. It gives us a higher concentration of staff there throughout the day, which is huge. But with only work I know how much joy I feel working eight to five and being close for lunch.
Alex:I can't I can't imagine, you know, ever going back to those more extended hours. I mean, from a there's so many different ways to look at it, you know. You have more staff there per doctor per hour, which is huge. And I was worried from the financial perspective, you know, seeing less appointments throughout the day. But our schedule's fully booked every day throughout the week.
Alex:And so we didn't really have a financial deficit because of it. And the mental benefit for the team was immeasurable.
Steven:I remember when we looked at that, you also looked at the number of appointments during that time. Yeah. Compared to the staff you had on hand. You're like overstaffed.
Alex:Exactly. No
Steven:one is really coming between five and seven.
Alex:No. There are few. Mhmm.
Steven:So I was like Yeah. I mean, yeah. Back in the grocery store days, look at do we stay open till eleven? Mhmm. No?
Steven:Between 10:11, no one's shopping here. Yeah. What are we doing?
Alex:Exactly. And it was really challenging I understand also from a client perspective. Oh, well I get off work at five, you know, I can be there by 05:15 and it it took probably a good year to a year and a half of for lack of a better word, training her clients Yeah. To get on that mentality. But you know, I was really honest with him.
Alex:I was like, I get it. My daughter's sick. Her pediatrician's only open till four. I totally get it. And I understand, it's just, it's about prioritizing.
Alex:And I know that that's really hard and I am sorry. We are here on Saturdays. We do have Saturdays. And fortunately where we are, which I never want to have to be like, well there is an urgent care, but it's also about educating and having those conversations. You know, Fluffy's had an ear infection for two weeks.
Alex:Fluffy can wait another twelve hours. You know, we can see Fluffy tomorrow morning. And they're like, yeah, you're probably right. So it's again, over communicating. People
Steven:can find time.
Alex:They can.
Steven:They can find time.
Alex:They will. And they do.
Steven:And it's for the health of your practice too.
Alex:The health of the staff
Steven:and everybody to go, hey, we're performing better now because of this. We're happier, healthier. Yeah. That's good for your pet. We're gonna make better decisions.
Alex:Absolutely. And the staff works harder and they perform so much better in their roles when they're not overextended and they're not exhausted. And they know when they get off at five, you know, they have so much more value in their lives.
Steven:Mhmm. Yeah.
Kale:Earlier you dropped 32% as a growth rate.
Alex:Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Kale:So what it made me think about metrics. Like you just rattled that off like you knew that immediately.
Alex:I did.
Kale:So do you look at metrics on a on a frequent basis and to understand the the health of the practice?
Alex:I try to. Yeah.
Kale:So what are you looking at?
Alex:I try to look at like, I really track our new clients, especially where they're coming from. That's a huge thing that I like to look at. I really track our diagnostics very heavily. That's super important for a lot of reasons. Just, you know, that measures the overall health of pets.
Alex:Plus a lot of people who decline diagnostics, you know, when their pet is five, will unfortunately find something, you know, really sinister when their pet is seven. So our staff is really good about educating that. I look at like average transactions per appointment. That's a huge one. I watch a lot of different things.
Steven:Good.
Alex:I know. It's fun.
Kale:Yeah. It is. Well, I I just it it was interesting to me how you rattled that off.
Alex:Well, there's a lot of things that I look at like, you know, preventatives. A lot of people don't advocate heavily for like preventatives like heartworm, flea, and tick. We have always been super, you know, that's been a huge important thing for us. And like our metrics sit really high for like average doses dispensed per pet per year because of how we, you know, gauge that and have those conversations. I also like with COVID, eleven point four million pets were adopted during COVID.
Alex:So every hospital felt that. Well, as if you look at the metrics for 2024, only 3,400,000 pets were adopted in that one year. So if you think about, you know, over the process of eighteen months, we felt what would equivalent to essentially three and a half years. Woah. I love looking at numbers.
Alex:It's the nerdy thing I like to do.
Kale:That's good. Well, I think it make it's important for you to understand those things.
Steven:It is.
Kale:It's not issues. Yeah. As as you can. So one of the big things that I wanted to ask you about before we we get time gets away from us is how do you navigate accountability? So I think I I it seems like it's the theme that I've been hearing recently.
Kale:But it's it's really like, hey, we built this policy.
Alex:Mhmm.
Kale:And this is what we've all said we're gonna do. Now no one's doing it. And it happens a lot. And so in your experience, how do how do how do you navigate that? Or what advice would you have for somebody that's having an issue with accountability?
Alex:Yeah. I I am really like open and honest with conversations. For us, when it comes to accountability, we have our conversations probably on a lot more casual level than maybe a lot of practices do. We have a team Snapchat conversation that, yes, it can go super feral and super unhinged at times, which I have to take a step back and take a deep breath. But it's also a great place to be like, when everyone's being silly be like, you guys, how many times do I have to tell you to put alerts on cage cards?
Alex:Come on. Like, and they'll be like, yeah, no, you're right. Or I'll get like a like emoji. And then if it doesn't happen, then I'll try to pay like closer attention to who the specific people are. It's a full time job keeping people accountable.
Alex:Like it it is my full time job trying to keep people accountable. But I also, it's just constantly having conversations and touch bases. And even if it's as simple as shooting a text like, hey I know we've talked about this before. I'm starting to feel a little bit like a broken record here. Can we please be more mindful?
Alex:And it can be as simple as like, you know, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Like, I'm not good at this. This is not my gift. Okay. Well, if you know, you're really struggling with labeling surgical cards in the morning, what if we got them ready the night before?
Alex:Well, that's a great idea. Make it part of a closing duty. You know, things like that. Because sometimes it's not the people. It could be like the process or it could be the protocol.
Alex:And I'll ask everybody. I'm like, hey, our as a team, we're really struggling with this. What do you guys think we should do? You know, we're getting ready to move from a 3,400 square foot practice to a almost 6,200 square foot practice. I'm like, you guys, we can't just walk room to room and talk to each other anymore.
Alex:How are we gonna? I did a survey. I did an anonymous survey. I said, how are we gonna effectively communicate? And yes, some of the answers were totally silly.
Alex:But everyone's like, why don't we try walkie talkies? Why don't we try headsets? Like that's a great idea. We'll try that. That's awesome.
Alex:And other people are like, I'm never gonna put a headset in. I do not work at Starbucks. I'm like, no. I get that but you know, would you be open to trying it? Yeah.
Alex:I'll try it. Great. Cool. Because at the end of the day, they're the ones who are doing this on a daily basis. Talk to them, ask them.
Alex:I can't make decisions. What I decide is not gonna be the same as what you guys decide. She's always talking to everybody.
Steven:You brought up the new practice. Yeah. The new location. Yes. New location.
Steven:New New practice, new location. How excited are you?
Alex:Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. I mean, I've been in the same building since 02/2009. Mhmm. And you know, after a while you're like, oh, wish we could change this. Oh, I wish you could change this.
Alex:Well, I got to.
Steven:What led up to the need to do a new building?
Alex:Definitely how busy we are. I mean, we are four full time doctors, four exam rooms. It's a lot. Mhmm. Yeah.
Alex:We have a full staff of 19, and we have 26 parking spaces in our parking lot. No. Definitely for us to practice the caliber of medicine and provide the experiences that we love to provide, not only for our clients, for our patients, and for our staff, but for our team. It it had to happen.
Steven:Where you're at, you're landlocked. We are so I mean, you have to get creative and expensive to use it like parking garages and like all kinds of crazy wild ideas.
Alex:And we did explore that as a personal option, the whole renovation.
Steven:Cause you got the downstairs. Got the
Alex:We do have a basement. Yeah.
Steven:Yeah. But it's a basement. And there's Yeah. Parking at the end of the day is one of the biggest issues.
Alex:It's it's wild. Yeah. When when we explored, you know, renovating the existing practice, you can't take patients down a flight of stairs. We're not gonna put in an elevator. And there's no windows down there.
Alex:So I was like, we're gonna put all the offices down there, the call center. I don't wanna work where there's no windows. Yeah. I'm not gonna make anybody else do that.
Steven:This really is preparing for the future. Mean, making an investment like this, you're thinking about twenty to thirty years at least, maybe fifty. So what went into the design of that to accommodate to the way things operate today, the way people wanna work today? What's different than what you have now?
Alex:Oh my gosh. Oh, it's so big, it's so open. We are going from four exam rooms to eight exam rooms. One of those are CAT specific, And then one of them is a designated comfort space for those difficult appointments, end of life appointments. Accommodating things like for a comfort room, having a private entrance.
Alex:Having an exam room, a separate exam room that also has a private entrance for, you know, dogs that don't like other dogs, fractious pets. You know, when owners have to have difficult conversations where their pet gets a, you know, a sad diagnosis. Being able to expand in our in house laboratory, in house pharmacy, having we have a designated call center. So our CSRs don't take any calls at the front desk. So having a designated call center that, you know, isn't in a hallway by treatment where they hear barking and, you know, joking all day.
Alex:We have a specific dental suite, an entire surgery prep area where the patients can get prepped and all of our, you know, surgical supplies exist.
Steven:X-ray that has to be moved around.
Alex:Huge x-ray room with ultrasound, just more right now we operate with basically one treatment table for four doctors. And in the new practice, we're gonna have five. So just allowing us to continue practicing the caliber of medicine that we are known for, that we pride ourselves on. While also, you know, with the more space our staff is gonna be so much happier. We are like, I mean, you guys have been to our practice.
Alex:It's like sardines in there. So being able to spread out and really keep patients separate and everybody can, you know, do what they do best.
Steven:What are you gonna miss about the current location?
Alex:Oh. Let me think. I truthfully, yes, we are packed like sardines, but the closeness. Like, during the day in between appointments, everybody's in the same space congregating and laughing and telling stories. And I I pray none of that gets lost when we move.
Alex:Because that is that is a huge part of who we are.
Steven:You have to practice that management.
Alex:I am on it.
Steven:You have to practice it.
Alex:I know. I'm gonna force everyone to come in the treatment for thirty minutes a day and continue to laugh and tell jokes with each other.
Steven:Expected opening?
Alex:Early September.
Steven:Early that's gonna be exciting.
Alex:Early September. Great time to open. Great time of year.
Steven:Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a great time of year too because it's not your busiest month. It's not. September.
Steven:Yeah. Kids are in school, all those things. I don't think you wanna open in your busiest
Alex:No.
Steven:You wanna give her a chance to get settled in, but you're gonna be busy.
Alex:We will be very You're
Steven:gonna be busy when you open, and probably will be your busiest month. Everyone's gonna wanna see Because
Alex:you just said that. Yeah.
Steven:That's because I said I will the entertainment.
Alex:It'll be great. It'll be really great. I'm very It's close.
Steven:It's a good location. Yeah.
Alex:Barely at a mile away from where we're at now. And with the intentional design of what we did, yes, it makes sense for who we are now. But it's designed that in the event we need to add more exam rooms, add larger treatment, we can very easily because of the space and where we are.
Steven:Yeah.
Alex:Very intentional. Very thoughtful.
Steven:Got a good contractor?
Alex:Oh, the best contractor.
Steven:John Hooker.
Alex:I cannot wait to write my customer service experience review on them. Yeah. We just had a meeting with them yesterday. They're the best.
Steven:Do a great job.
Alex:They do.
Steven:Great job.
Alex:They're very mindful. Very they care so much about vet med.
Steven:They do.
Alex:They're very passionate about it.
Steven:Yeah. We're always happy to
Alex:recommend That's huge. That's huge. Yeah. It's literally an animal all its own. Mhmm.
Alex:Mhmm.
Kale:Yeah. So we we've started to ask this. Yeah. What is it that we have not talked about today that you wanna talk about that you'll be super upset if you go home and you didn't say anything about it? Or we didn't discuss it and you're like, darn it, I wish we would have talked about it.
Alex:I think everyone who utilizes you guys as a resource in their hand basket of practice management, needs to know that practice managers can use you guys as well. I I feel like I reach out to you guys all the time. And I think a lot of other hospitals and practice managers don't know that they can do that. They're like, oh, well, they just work with the owner and they just you know, that's their resource. No.
Alex:No. No. You're a resource for the whole hospital. And I know I've you have been so helpful in helping with our staff with even if it's not something you do, someone else in the office can help with. You guys really advocate for the whole practice, not just the owners.
Kale:I appreciate that.
Alex:Oh my gosh. It's a you guys are such a huge asset.
Steven:Thank you.
Alex:Yeah. Thank you guys.
Steven:Yeah. No.
Alex:You guys are the No.
Steven:See, that's that driving home. That's that driving home. What what what should be said. So we love that. Hey, just for fun.
Steven:What's one thing your team knows what's what's one thing your team doesn't know about you, surprise the listeners?
Alex:Oh. That's a hard one. We are all way too open with each other.
Steven:Oh, okay. Your team knows about it, but it's surprise the listeners then.
Alex:The only thing that will probably like anger me, like truly anger me, is if I go to our break room and nobody has told me that we are out of Diet Coke. Like it will set. I'm like, you guys, I have one vice in this world. Mhmm. Who took the last one?
Alex:Who did it? Who's going to the gas station to get me one? No. I'm just kidding.
Kale:I I sympathize with with some of those addictions. I love I love going out and doing things early in the morning. I I love being outside, but I would if there's not coffee, I don't I don't want it.
Steven:Folgers coffee.
Kale:I gotta have my really crappy old Folgers coffee. That's all I want.
Alex:That is so funny.
Kale:That's it. Yeah.
Steven:Next one. If you had a billboard outside the clinic with a message for pet parents, what would it say?
Alex:At the end of the day, like we are not here because we want to make money. You know what I mean? Like we we are advocates. We are a support system. You know, we are here to not just take care of your pets.
Alex:We are here to take care of you. Mhmm. We are here to help you. We are here because we value you. Nobody got into vet med to make money.
Alex:Everyone does it because truly they love animals. I wanna I don't know how to get that into people, you know? Mhmm.
Steven:That's well said. Yeah. Well said. I think that billboard should be out there.
Alex:No. Yeah. It reminds me of like Monsters Inc. Like we scare because we care, you know? Coffee
Steven:or tea?
Alex:Coffee. Cats or dogs? Cats.
Steven:Favorite way to unwind after a long day at the clinic?
Alex:I love listening to podcasts on my drive home. I love reading and arts and crafts with my daughter. She's super crafty. I also
Steven:Will you listen to this one?
Alex:Oh, yeah. Always. Always. It's the perfect length from when I pull out of my driveway to when I pull in my parking spot at work.
Steven:Love it.
Alex:And baking. Baking is a huge stress relief.
Steven:You said your daughter?
Alex:Yes. Yeah. She's awesome. She's the best.
Steven:That's great.
Alex:Yes. She is a huge animal lover herself. Like to the point where we go to the farmer's market every Saturday and every single dog it's we can't be there for an hour we're there for two hours because she stops and pets every single dog and is asking orders can I hold him? Can I hold him? I'm like Lily not every dog is friendly it's okay but she's grown up in the hospital so it was fun I took her to the new build yesterday and she got to write on the walls and draw on the walls and put her handprints everywhere.
Alex:So that was really special.
Steven:That's awesome.
Alex:That's great. Well,
Steven:I tell you what. I'm so happy that you drove down today. Yeah. I'm here today to come be on the podcast.
Alex:Of course. It's an
Steven:honor to have you
Alex:here. Oh my gosh. I'm so grateful.
Steven:This has been a lot fun.
Alex:It means a lot to me.
Steven:So thank you.
Alex:We'll have
Steven:to do it again
Alex:too. Absolutely.
Steven:Maybe do one at the new building.
Alex:Oh, let's do it.
Steven:Do a live one
Alex:for the There's lots of natural light. Beautiful. Beautiful space. Great colors.
Steven:It'd be great.
Alex:It'd perfect.
Steven:Hey, everybody. Thanks for tuning in today. If you like the Vedip Podcast, please subscribe to the channel, whether it's through your Spotify, Apple iTunes, or if it's on YouTube. We appreciate you listening. Till next time.
Steven:Thanks so much. Peace and blessings.