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Welcome to Plans Are Booked, a podcast for every reader, hosted by Molly Galler, Stephanie Blackburn, and Kaitlin Mattison. We're three friends who love to read, swap books, and count down until the film and TV adaptations of our favorites are released. Follow us on Instagram, @plansarebooked, or reach out to us directly at plansarebooked@gmail.com.
Molly Galler (00:05)
Welcome to Plans Are Booked, a podcast for every reader. I'm Molly Galler, and today we are joined by Carla Vass. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm so excited to talk about your debut novel, The Rally, which we were very fortunate to get an advanced reader copy of. And as you and I have discussed on Instagram, your book came out on my birthday, 9/29.
Carla Vass (00:14)
Thank you for having me.
That's right.
Molly Galler (00:29)
Which ⁓ those who listen to Plans Are Booked are well aware of how important my birthday is to me and what an auspicious day I think that it is. So I was thrilled when the advanced reader copy came and it said the intended published date was 9/29. I'm like, this feels like a wink from the universe that I am supposed to be reading this book. ⁓ I'm so excited to ask you about many things, including your very interesting career trajectory, about the kernel for the idea for this book, about what it's been like to be on the book tour.
Carla Vass (00:32)
Very auspicious, I have to say.
Molly Galler (00:58)
But I would like to start at the beginning, which is when did you discover that you love to read or that you love to write or that storytelling was something you wanted to do?
Carla Vass (01:11)
man. So ⁓ I truly my earliest memory is of going to the library before I could even read. And my mother, because she of course would get stuck, you know, reading all these books to me, and and I would really push it. Like every night I was like, we have to read, you know, just one more book, one more book. And she'd be reading to me for like hours. And then so we would go to the library and she told me that there was a limit on the number of books you could check out.
Because she knew that she was going to be stuck reading all of them to me. And lo and behold, when I finally learned to read, and I remember being so motivated to learn how to read myself because I basically was like, I can't depend on these people around me. Like I I have to be able to do this for myself because then, you know, I I don't mind if I sit here for you know 10 hours a day reading, but I'm not gonna be able to convince anyone else to do that for me.
⁓ and then lo and behold, when I did finally teach, you know, learn how to read, ⁓ the you know, the minimum or the the maximum amount of books you could check out miraculously went away. And we could get unlimited books from the library. So ⁓ I I always I always love stories. ⁓ you know, I remember the first book I ever read was Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. It took me
Molly Galler (02:24)
That's amazing.
Carla Vass (02:34)
An entire year. I remember it was first grade. We were learning to read. And it took me a whole year to get through it. But I was like, I'm gonna finish this book. ⁓ and yeah, so I mean, truly, I've always been just a lifelong reader, lover of of books and stories. And then later started writing, you know, my own stories, which I would, you know, I was in a I had like we had a little club in in the neighborhood, and I would write plays.
And and little short stories and convince my friends to come over and I would cast them in you know in the in the plays and then we would make our parents pay to watch us perform them. So it was very enterprising. yeah, I was like, listen.
Molly Galler (03:16)
I love that. That you were already charging admission as a child.
Love that. I love that. And I think that's such a good way to exercise your imagination, right? As it's not just whatever you wrote down as those initial scripts to rally all the neighbors, but also, you know, how would they respond to being cast into certain roles and what would it feel like to see them say the words that you were asking them to say? And I think we have heard that from a lot of authors that that early imaginative play is a huge part of how they sort of refined their storytelling skills when they were young.
Carla Vass (03:32)
Yes, yes.
Molly Galler (03:51)
And that they had usually a willing sibling or cousin or neighbor who would help them kind of nurture that early love of sharing stories and making people laugh and, you know, getting that reaction that feels so gratifying when you're sharing something you've created with the world. ⁓ I know you've shared a lot, both on your Instagram and on your book tour, about your professional career actually did not start out.
Carla Vass (04:10)
Absolutely.
Molly Galler (04:18)
in writing. You were at Goldman Sachs, you were at Uber, you were at Waymo. How did you go from this passion for reading and writing as a child to kind of going into that more corporate route and then making your way to where you are now?
Carla Vass (04:19)
Right.
Yeah, ⁓ so I studied English Literature in college and you know, again, books were were always, you know, sort of it for me. ⁓ and then when I was graduating, ⁓ it didn't feel to be honest, like there was any sort of path. ⁓ you know, I had no idea, even though you know ⁓ some incredible writers have have come from my school, I had no idea.
what the realistic path was to actually do this as a career. ⁓ And so I instead did what all English Lit majors do and went to go work in finance. So ⁓ and that's and you know part of that is just because they, you know, they really did have sort of a structured program. Like they came on campus and they recruited and it was very clear like, okay, here are the steps I need to follow and the things I need to say in order to get this job.
Molly Galler (05:00)
Mm.
Carla Vass (05:26)
And so I started my career in finance at Goldman Sachs. I then spent the next ⁓ you know, decade plus really building businesses. I was sort of a little bit by chance left Goldman and wound up at Uber in the very early days. And you know, that was just a total rocket ship, very entrepreneurial, fast-paced, super exciting environment.
And that then, you know, sort of put me on this more tech business building trajectory. So after Uber, I went to Waymo to work on driverless cars. I actually then founded my own startup, ⁓ ran it for four years, you know, raised money from venture. And when I decided to close the business, this was about three years ago now.
Molly Galler (05:59)
Mm-hmm.
Carla Vass (06:23)
I then found myself really reflecting on, you know, just this career that I'd had and almost 15 years spent in these intense high-pressure environments. And that's really where I had actually been sort of, I'd always been a writer. Like I would always just sort of like write down little stories, or and you know, certainly was always a big reader. But
Molly Galler (06:41)
Mm.
Carla Vass (06:49)
It was when I had that time to really sit and reflect, I started thinking about what do I really want and what do I really want to do? And I had bits and pieces of what ultimately became my first book, The Rally. And I sort of just thought to myself, like, maybe I could try and, you know, turn this into a novel. And I don't know, maybe I could get it published. Like, what what does that look like? And that's really where, you know, the the pieces started to come together. And I just thought, okay, like.
Now I kind of understand this is how a book gets published. Let's try and see. And that was, you know, two years ago. And here we are.
Molly Galler (07:30)
You're reminding me, ⁓ we had the pleasure of meeting Heather Amy O'Neill, who's the author of The Irish Goodbye. And she came to Porter Square Books in Cambridge, and I was sitting in the audience and somebody asked her, How do you know when you're a writer? Because she's a college professor. And she said, I always say you know you're a writer when you can't not write. That it things keep coming to you, ideas keep coming to you. That form of expression feels really
Carla Vass (07:46)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Galler (08:00)
natural and almost like a magnetic pull to express yourself in that way. And as you were just describing that, I was thinking to myself, through all these other jobs, you sort of always had the common thread of loving this and knowing that you wanted to do that at some point. And I think also, so I run my own business. And I think at some point you start to think about how you want to be spending your time. And do you want to be in the rise and grind mode forever? And if you do, is it for the right reason?
And I think it sounds like as you wound down your business that there was maybe an aha of like, I could really do this. Like I could take these ideas now and take the time to put pen to paper or finger to keyboard and bring it to a place where it's a fully formed draft and it's not just a ⁓ I'll do that from the airplane or I'll do that, you know, the next time I wake up early naturally, or I'll do that while I'm waiting.
In the school pickup line, whatever it is. I think there's so many of us who have the passion thing, but it isn't the thing you're doing all day, every day. And it sounds like you got to a point where you could make it the thing at the forefront and and then The Rally got to become real at that inflection point.
Carla Vass (09:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. No, absolutely. But it's you know, and it's it's tricky because I remember I mean, I've had a version of this conversation with myself, with my therapist, like with you know, with everybody I know. Because I I think it's tough. Like when you are doing something that is ⁓
It sort of almost feels it feels a little bit selfish. There's a lot of imposter syndrome. ⁓ you know, there's a lot of like what actually makes you a writer, what entitles you to sort of announce, I'm a writer. Is it, you know, when you get a book deal? Is it when somebody is like paying you a lot of money to do it? ⁓ and I certainly, you know, as like an elder millennial, high achieving, like I was like, no, no, like I am not, unless this is like
Molly Galler (09:38)
Mm.
Yeah.
Carla Vass (10:05)
you know, going to support me and my family and, you know, solve world peace one day, like I am, I am not entitled to call myself a writer. Like that's just too frivolous. ⁓ and, you know, but but I I actually got similar advice that you you're a writer when you regardless of, you know, whether you earn a single dollar doing it, regardless of what sort of, you know, external validation you get, you you are a writer when you
Molly Galler (10:15)
Yeah.
Carla Vass (10:35)
when you just love doing it and when, you know, and and even, you know, it's it's also not super pleasant sometimes. ⁓ you know, the process can actually be quite difficult. But when you sort of do it anyway and you would do it without, you know, without any of that sort of external recognition. that's
Molly Galler (10:45)
Yeah.
Right. I think there's so much writing that happens before the fanfare or the public even knowing what the project is. I don't know if you read it. We interviewed an author, her name is Juliette Izon, who wrote a book called The Encore. And she was talking about how at first it was just a creative joy thing for her. She was doing it at night after she put her daughter to bed, and she wasn't even sure she would ever share it with anyone. She was just having fun, letting the story take her where it was going, and it took a while.
Carla Vass (11:00)
Absolutely.
Okay.
Molly Galler (11:22)
Before she thought, I should have someone else read this and see, like, is this viable? Could I try to put this out into the world? And I think so much of the writer life does happen in those private moments where you're trying to figure out, does this story have legs? Can I take it somewhere? Am I saying something new and different? And as you said, you're a writer, whether that's a traditionally published book or not. That's still you creating something new and giving life to these characters and figuring out what's going to happen. And that
Some for some people will always be like a private ritual. It may never become something that's on a shelf or available to the public, but it doesn't make it any less significant if it's not for sale at Barnes and Noble. You know what I mean? It's like it's about the process. And I do wonder if you can remember back what was the first inkling you had of the idea that became The Rally?
Carla Vass (12:01)
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.
So I actually went on a trip that was very similar to the one I write about in The Rally. It was a classic car rally when I was, I must have been like 23 or 24, because it was my first job at Goldman. And I remember I took four business days off, which at the time I was like, this is crazy. Like and it was a friend, a friend of mine, her she had a family friend who was one of the organizers of.
Molly Galler (12:29)
Big deal.
Carla Vass (12:42)
Rally. And it was, it's definitely not as sort of debauched as the one in the story. ⁓ but it is, you know, this amazing group of super eclectic people from all different walks of life who basically get together every year and plan a two week trip. ⁓ there's kind of a core group, they're very into classic cars. ⁓ you know, there really are rules about like what kind of car you can bring.
And you're not allowed to use GPS. And they plan this incredible, you know, route every single year. And she so she invited me, and I was like, what's that? I was like, okay, so we're going on a road trip, I guess. ⁓ and you know, it it was just, I thought even at the time, I was like, this would make an incredible setting for a story. And I actually started writing bits of what would ultimately be become The Rally.
right then and there. I remember the first night just scribbling down in, my journal bits of that that did make their way into the book. And it took me 15 years to come back and actually finish the story. But I always wanted to, I always knew I I just wanted that setting because it's such a an interesting pressure cooker. You do have these characters. It is very glamorous.
You know, and and I wanted to to sort of have that as a setting and backdrop for, you know, a story which is essentially about a woman who has to reinvent herself after everything she thinks is important is kind of taken away.
Molly Galler (14:15)
Yes. So I mentioned this to you before we started recording today, but I worked in Tech PR for over a decade, specifically with startups. And part of the reason I was immersed in the book immediately is because Charlie, your lead female protagonist, is the founder of a dating app. And she basically gets pushed out of her own company. And she has to figure out who am I if I'm not this founder? Can I allow myself to unplug and have fun?
Carla Vass (14:35)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Molly Galler (14:45)
Can I have future ideas that will be good enough? Or is this gonna happen all over again? I've had a front row seat to so many oustings, dissolutions, changing of leadership. Like I was in immediately because I know how high drama those situations are. And the fear of checking your email and the way your heart pounds and all of these things. And I felt like obviously you have the lived experience of working inside of a fast moving tech startup. You know what that's like.
Carla Vass (14:59)
Yeah. ⁓
Molly Galler (15:13)
And it came across so authentically on the page, every element of her initial situation when you first meet her and how it evolves over time. And I wondered, did you think about that piece first or did you kind of start with the car rally as the setting and then ask yourself, who can I put into this that will make it interesting and move the plot forward?
Carla Vass (15:37)
Yeah, it's it's a great question. And thank you. I'm glad that it it it sort of landed for you because ⁓ you know the that it it is that's really kind of the core of of the story. I ⁓ you know I think in a in a way, so initially when I was first writing those very, very early scenes really, and this again is you know 15 years ago at this point, ⁓ it it it started more with
The story of the setting itself. ⁓ Just because, you know, I was more trying to capture kind of the feel and you know these characters and this incredible sort of zany trip to nowhere. Then when when I really started to think about elements of of making it more of a story and not so much, ⁓ you know, almost like a trip or sort of travel.
Molly Galler (16:09)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Carla Vass (16:36)
almost like travel journalism, that's when, you know, Charlie's story really came to me. And it was part of, you know, what I think part of what made her come to me so vividly was all of these years that I'd spent in these, you know, these environments that I think are quite hard to describe when you're if you're not in them. And, you know, these companies really are just sort of rocket ships.
Molly Galler (16:41)
Hm.
Carla Vass (17:05)
And particularly, you know, if you are a founder, it's it's a very intense relationship. And I think from the outside, most people probably have the perception that, no, these are these are like big companies, like they must, they must really like have it together. ⁓ and when you're but you know, when you're sort of on the inside of it, you realize like, no, this is this is mostly kids who you know are brilliant and
Have found themselves in these, you know, incredible seats making these decisions that nobody really feels qualified to make. And, you know, there is a lot of drama because we're, we're human, right? These are, you know, just these are very intense relationships. ⁓ you know, people do have falling, you know, a falling out with their ⁓ you know, with their founders. I think one of with their partners, I think one of the things that ⁓ and I've been encouraged to get a lot of good feedback.
particularly for men and also like, you know, male founders as well, even though you know Charlie is obviously a woman and her story is is definitely there's a lot about how we treat ⁓ women in business and you know, ambitious women in particular. But a lot of ⁓ you know, my male friends who are founders or who have gone through similar things have sort of said, like, wow, like this, you know, this this really kind of landed for me. And it is a universal ⁓ experience.
to you know, to some extent. I think it doesn't matter which you know, what sort of level you're at, or if you are maybe you own a small business or maybe you work for yourself, we all sort of feel that workplace betrayal and, you know, things get messy as they do in in real life.
Molly Galler (18:49)
Totally. And the way you set up this transition for her as a plot device for her to be able to participate in the rally was so cool because she had been go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And like you said, like the idea of four days off is like crazy to someone like that. ⁓ she probably hadn't taken a day off in years. And this idea that the slate was totally clean for her all of a sudden, empty calendar, no obligations.
Carla Vass (19:02)
Yeah.
Molly Galler (19:14)
nothing but to eventually respond to this email offer that sails its way across the miles to her. But to be able to go in and reinvent herself in a way. And then she arrives, I think you said it earlier, eccentric or eclectic, but this group of this group of people that the thing they have in common is this love for these amazing cars, but that they're all from very different walks of life, different ages, some who earned their money, some who came into the money through family wealth, some who, ⁓
Carla Vass (19:18)
If you
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Molly Galler (19:43)
this is how they spend their time all the time and they're untethered constantly, and some where it's just a special thing that happens maybe once or twice a year. And what I felt was very cool as someone who reads a ton of romance, that's my primary genre, far and away, is when James came onto the scene. Page one, I was like, I know what's about to happen here. It was like so clear that she felt an immediate magnetism to him.
Carla Vass (19:55)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ha ha ha.
Molly Galler (20:12)
And that she wasn't sure if it was that she was in this strange headspace or that she was in a foreign place. Was she just kind of trying to go with the flow, or was this something she actually was interested in doing? She was already at the dinner table upset about something else. So it was just sort of like, is this gonna happen? Is this not gonna happen? And I think what's so cool about the way you built things over the course of the back half of the book is James is kind of a mystery. Like
Carla Vass (20:37)
Yes. ⁓
Molly Galler (20:37)
He comes in, he comes out, you know a little bit about him, but not a lot. He has a great sense of humor, but he's also kind of closed off. And again, I I read a lot of these kinds of books. So I knew I could tell what was gonna happen and and what the ultimate miscommunication was gonna be. But I was very interested in the road to getting there because I felt that their tension and the build of that was so authentic. And it was really.
Carla Vass (20:44)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Molly Galler (21:07)
like a joy to see how it was all gonna progress. And I think for those who maybe don't read at such a high volume of these kinds of books, you might not be able to have a guess at where things were gonna go. But there's always that sort of third act, whether it's the breakup or the miscommunication or the big reveal. And I knew we were heading towards that and it gives me a pit in my stomach every time. And then, you know, I wasn't quite sure if there would be resolution and and how it might
Carla Vass (21:08)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Yep.
Yeah.
Molly Galler (21:36)
continue on. And I don't want to say more because I don't want to give anything away for anybody, but I think you brought in a counterpoint to her that really challenged her to think about what does she want? What's important to her? Who can she trust as she continues to rebuild her life? Who should be allowed in that inner circle and this like Charlie 2.0. And I loved that self-reflection that she was forced to do because he came
Into the picture. Did you imagine him as like the romantic lead, or were you more seeing him as like the catalyst for her own evolution?
Carla Vass (22:15)
Yeah, you know, it's so funny because you I think initially I was sort of, and I'm a big, you know, romance reader and fan of so initially I was like, ⁓ like he's just gonna be like, here's this like hot guy who's gonna be the romantic lead, and like, of course there needs to be a romance. You know, here's a woman who has, you know, done nothing but, you know, work for most of her life. She has this one thing she thinks is important, she thinks is important, which is her company.
Molly Galler (22:28)
Yeah.
Carla Vass (22:43)
And you know, she's kind of jettisoned everything else in in service of that. And when that's taken away from her, she's just completely lost and and blindsided. And, you know, and then I did want to drop her into this, you know, sort of chaotic scene. ⁓ and that's where, you know, we we talked earlier about sort of the what came first, like the the setting or or the story. You know, it was the setting, but it was the perfect setting for her story because.
You know, she then she does have to ultimately go on this sort of journey ⁓ and think about and reinvent herself and really think about what's important. And initially, I I think what when I started writing it, I thought the romance was just gonna sort of be in service of that. Like it was just going to be great, like here's a romance, like check, you know. She she's the founder of a dating app, which is wildly successful, but yet she's
Molly Galler (23:29)
Mm.
Carla Vass (23:41)
not really dated much and doesn't have a lot of close personal relationships and is actually quite closed off in her own way. And I think over time as I was writing it, you know, that's when I sort of realized, it's it's actually not going to be quite that straightforward. Like I did really, you know, I f I found, you know, I sort of found that character.
Molly Galler (24:03)
Hm.
Carla Vass (24:08)
you know, really challenging her. And I I actually sort of went back and forth. Like at one point I said to my agent, I was like, should this just be a romance? Because as you know, like when you write a traditional romance, that's really the story, right? It's ⁓ you know, everything else is is sort of around that, but the the core romance really is the scaffolding. ⁓ in this case, the core story really is her story and, you know, how she
Molly Galler (24:19)
Mm.
Hmm.
Carla Vass (24:38)
reinvents herself and what she does when everything is sort of taken away from her. ⁓ and so that was ultimately, you know, sort of the direction that I found the story being pulled in, even though, you know, there is a a strong romance component. And I think if you if you enjoy reading romances, you will like The Rally for for those reasons.
Molly Galler (24:58)
Agreed. I think if you had done it squarely in the romance category, you would have had to dwarf some of the career stuff, which I felt made you root for Charlie even more. And I would have hated to see you have to trim some of that stuff because it wasn't like focusing on the romantic element enough. By the time he comes onto the scene, which is the back half, you're already wondering what's gonna happen to her. You're very invested, you are
Carla Vass (25:07)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Galler (25:28)
sort of rolling your eyes at this bestie who invited her onto the trip, who is like, it's funny, in real life, this is probably a strong word to say, but I hate those kind of women who have like unlimited resources and don't seem to have to work a day in their lives and who travel in designer garb and men seem to be paying for every single thing they ever do. Like it actually grinds every year. But in this case, she is the reason that Charlie decides to kind of take a leap and
Carla Vass (25:42)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Molly Galler (25:56)
just lean in and try to let go a little bit and see if she can like find this new version of herself. So without that woman as the ⁓ juxtaposition to her, you wouldn't have gotten that kind of character development. And it's so funny because I think we see that kind of wealthy woman in many a movie and TV show. And it reminds me of like many of the characters on the White Lotus. And it's just they just
Carla Vass (26:10)
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Molly Galler (26:22)
Grind my gears, but you you had to have her in order to make it happen and get Charlie on that plane and get her going from place to place. And I also think she kind of pushes Charlie to do some reflection about James, which is important. And even though it's coming from an unlikely place, she's really trying to say, like, hey, I see what's happening to you. Like, I see how you're responding to him, I see how it's occupying your mind.
Carla Vass (26:31)
Mm-hmm.
Molly Galler (26:51)
What's going on? You know? And James has some allies in the rally who are, you know, trying to help her see that even though he's intense, he's a good person and ⁓ you know, he's juggling a lot of family dynamics himself and trying to figure out what to do. And I liked that he was also quite complicated and and wasn't just sort of like the paper cutout of the dream boyfriend. He had a lot of stuff that he was working through also. And when he finds himself
Carla Vass (26:53)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Molly Galler (27:22)
On the back foot. Then it's like, okay, how is he going to try to explain this to her? And that is the part that I was just totally gripped. Like, is there going to be a chance for this to get back to solid ground? I don't know, but I want to see what's going to happen. And I have to ask this because selfishly I'm hoping this is going to make its way to the screen. Do you have someone negotiating film or television rights for you to try to have this have a second life?
Carla Vass (27:23)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Hehehe
I I do, yes. So my my agency is is fantastic and you know there's a whole ⁓ you know my I have a a film, you know, film and and television ⁓ agent who's who's working on it. So fingers crossed.
Molly Galler (27:53)
Amazing.
Awesome.
This to me is such an obvious Netflix movie. Like I just it so follows the type of stories that they like. It's in a beautiful and exotic place. The fashion potential would be endless. And I can picture like who they would cast for her, who they would cast for James. Did you have sometimes I know authors will have an inspiration in their mind of an actor or an actress they adore, who they sort of picture as as sharing.
Carla Vass (28:09)
Yes.
Yep.
Molly Galler (28:33)
personality traits of their protagonists. Do you have in your mind celebs who you're like, I always kind of pictured that Charlie would be kind of like this, or was it more just faceless in your mind?
Carla Vass (28:44)
Honestly, faceless. And even still, I do not have a strong, I do not have strong opinions about who should, you know, who should play the characters. ⁓ and it's it's been it's been so interesting ⁓ to, you know, I've been dropping in at a bunch of book clubs and you know, doing a bunch of bookish events, and it's been fascinating to get readers' reactions to to the characters. So, you know, Lena.
Molly Galler (28:51)
Okay.
Carla Vass (29:12)
you know, who who you mentioned is she's definitely polarizing. And and but I've been surprised actually by how many it it's been like quite a mix. Like I feel like there are readers who absolutely love her and then there are some that do don't like her that much. ⁓ and it's so it's been surprising just to kind of see, you know, to see the reactions. And you do realize like people, you know, everyone takes on a different life, right?
Molly Galler (29:24)
Yeah.
the character of Lena in the film adaptation would be so juicy for somebody. I feel like that would be so fun. And also, I hope I'm saying this correctly. Rafe? Okay. So I I mean I love a villain always. And I think ⁓ this is very
Carla Vass (29:37)
Yeah. I know. And
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Molly Galler (29:53)
Don't want to say if it's me too per se, but he's definitely playing that role of man who gets whatever he wants, doesn't care what anybody thinks, doesn't care if a woman's not interested in him. I think that kind of just boldness and inability to like ⁓ recognize other people's needs that that for an actor, that is a very, I don't know, people like to play the bad guy. And I think that.
Carla Vass (29:56)
Hm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Molly Galler (30:23)
He has a lot of scenes where you could really love to hate him. And I think that would be amazing in a movie. And I'm I can't even imagine what the budget would be to have all the cars and the way you described them, but it would be so cool. And I think for those of us who ⁓ have fallen in love with F1 Drive to Survive, we have seen like the glitz and the glam of a place like let's say Monaco.
Carla Vass (30:28)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Right. Yeah, it would be great.
Mm-hmm.
Molly Galler (30:49)
Right, where people are driving around in stunning cars and coming on and off their boats. And I could easily see that sort of vibe for this, where there's just sort of glitz and things that are really rare and precious kind of around every turn. I think it would be a feast for the eyes if it's done in the way that you have it written on the page. And it would be so cool to see that happen. And I do feel that the resurgence of the romance category actually helps stories like this.
Be seen as something that the streaming companies are like, yes, we know people will watch that. We know people will be into that kind of story. So I hope this conversation can be a manifestation of you getting what you most want ⁓ in that regard. And I know you mentioned you have a great agency. We have a lot of people that listen to the show who are aspiring authors. How did you find your way from working on a draft to
Carla Vass (31:18)
Yeah.
I hope you
Mm-hmm.
Molly Galler (31:44)
being matched to an agency that really it seems like suits everything you're hoping to do. Did you query this? Did you know someone who knows someone? Like how'd you find yourself with an agent who was passionate about the book too?
Carla Vass (31:50)
Yes.
Yeah, no, so it's so I knew absolutely nothing about publishing. And I mean, I was literally, you know, Googling like how to like how to publish a book. Like what, you know, what what what are where do I even start? ⁓ and so I finished I I had a finished manuscript. Fortunately, I had a good friend who I it's so funny because we have like the exact same resume. Like we worked at all of the same places.
roughly around the same time. ⁓ and then, you know, and and she was an author, her f her first book was was coming out. And she had a little post about it on LinkedIn. And I was like, hey, like can we chat? Like I'm c just curious, how do you do this? And she really walked me through everything. And I I'll shout out Julie Leong. ⁓ she writes wonderful like science fiction fantasy books, very cozy, ⁓ SF SFF? Yeah.
Molly Galler (32:44)
Mm.
Carla Vass (32:54)
⁓ and her first book was called The Keeper of Magical Things. no, no, sorry, The Teller of Small Fortunes was her first book. And she's since written ⁓ at least one other one. And I think her third comes out in ⁓ in just a couple of months. So she's yeah, she's a wonderful, wonderful author. And she was kind enough to really walk me through like, okay, she's like, Well, first of all, do you want to be traditionally published or do you want to do self-publishing? And ⁓ and you know, by the way, like self-publishing.
Molly Galler (33:00)
Okay.
Cool.
Carla Vass (33:23)
published authors, I mean, it's a heroic, heroic effort. And I really do see kind of the, you know, the the benefits to both. you know, it feels like for me, the big one about, you know, getting traditionally published and and, you know, selling the book to ⁓ you know, a big publisher is they can they they basically have distribution, right? So they will get your book into bookstores. ⁓ you know, that being said, if you want to go the indie publishing route.
You often have a lot more control. ⁓ if you write faster, you're sort of on your own timeline. As I will tell you now, as you know, a traditionally published author, you actually end up doing a lot of the marketing and you know promotion anyway. So, you know, there's there's actually quite a lot in common that I think we have with our, you know, with our indie published counterparts, and a lot of the same challenges and also opportunities.
But I ultimately decided, okay, let me see if I can, you know, go sort of the more traditional route. ⁓ and so the first thing that I learned I needed to do was get an agent. And, you know, for anyone who doesn't know, it's it's literally like selling or buying a house, right? Like for the most part, you do need a real estate agent. And ⁓ and you know, that's the case for for books as well. So
⁓ when you decide, okay, I need to get an agent, then you do something called querying, which you're essentially sending your one page ⁓ almost sort of like a cover letter or like a pitch letter. And there are certain conventions and things you need to have in that letter. ⁓ usually you'll send like a sample of your first 10 pages, but every agent sort of asks for different things. and you know, for me, and this is I was doing this before like AI was really a thing, but
I spent probably 40, at least like 40 or 50 hours just researching a list of 40 agents ⁓ who represented my genre, who were part of reputable agencies, or at least had a good reputation. Like that took me a long, long time. And you know, so I had my list, and then you have kind of your pitch package.
And it was it was interesting because for me, you know, I'd I'd raised money from venture capital funds. And it was actually quite similar as an exercise in the sense that, you know, you prepare your materials. In one case, it's a pitch deck, you know, in this sense it was ⁓ you know, basically not in deck form, but similar thing. It's still a pitch.
Molly Galler (35:49)
Mm.
Carla Vass (36:01)
And ⁓ and then you're sending out these, you know, sort of packets usually by email, ⁓ or there's, I think it's query tracker is the you know the platform that a lot of agents use. And you're basically just praying, like you're hoping you hear back. And ⁓ you know, I was fortunate ⁓ and you know, I was querying over the summer, which apparently is not a good time. I didn't know that. Like I just was like, okay, like let me send some out and see what happens. ⁓
Molly Galler (36:15)
Totally.
Carla Vass (36:31)
I was fortunate that I started hearing back really quickly. ⁓ You know, I think within I sent out 10 just to sort of test the waters and make sure that, you know, my query letter was working. And within 24 hours, I think I had like six ⁓ agents come back and say, we're interested. We'd like to see the full manuscript. ⁓ So that process actually went quite quickly for me.
Molly Galler (36:48)
Wow.
Carla Vass (36:58)
And that's not normal. And I think also it's unfortunately probably even less normal now because this was the summer of 2024 that I was doing this. and you know, my understanding is now there's just like less agents. Like it's just, you know, it's it's it's more and more difficult. ⁓ but I heard back very quickly, which was great. And then ⁓ I actually wound up having, you know, my first calls with agents who sort of have a call to get to know each other.
Molly Galler (37:07)
Mm-hmm.
Carla Vass (37:27)
You ask questions, they ask you questions. And I had my first, you know, offer within it was like two weeks later or something. So it was, it was very fast for me. Now, that said, actually selling the book was different. ⁓ you know, so I'm I'm sort of like feeling great. I'm like awesome, like got an agent in two weeks. ⁓ you know, this again was happening over the summer. So we decided ⁓ you know, the agent I ultimately went with, who's still my agent today, he's fantastic.
Molly Galler (37:35)
Wow.
Carla Vass (37:58)
⁓ we went out in in early September basically with the manuscript. And he sent it to 10, about about 10, I think maybe it was a few less, ⁓ publishers or editors at publishers. So when you actually go on submission, as I've learned it's called, then it's really kind of your agents show. And they're basically doing a version of what you do with querying. Like they're kind of you know taking your book and and trying to pitch it to publishing houses.
Molly Galler (38:10)
Mm-hmm.
Carla Vass (38:28)
So ⁓ my agent went out and we heard back pretty quickly, ⁓ which you know is is was good in the sense that editors were reading it quickly, you know, they're they were providing feedback. ⁓ I think we got like fairly close with a couple, but ultimately they were all passes. So we heard no, and you know, my agent was kind of like, that's okay. Like this is very much par for the course, it's about finding the right person.
Molly Galler (38:49)
Mm.
Carla Vass (38:58)
⁓ there's a million reasons why a publisher will pass on a manuscript. And, you know, it while of course like they might just not like it, there's also like internally, you know, they've got sort of their own checklist. Maybe they have something that's too similar, maybe they're only looking for, you know, vampire romance. Like it's it really can run the gamut. ⁓ and so we, you know, long story short, we I made a couple of of
Molly Galler (39:14)
Mm.
Great.
Carla Vass (39:27)
little changes. ⁓ we waited until January because at this point we're getting into November and the Thanksgiving holiday and publishing does sort of get a little quiet between Thanksgiving and and the new year, at least on the acquisition side. So we waited until the early new year to go out again. And same thing happens. We get close, we send it to like 10, but everybody passes. And you know, so I'm like, ⁓ like
Molly Galler (39:47)
Mm.
Wow.
Carla Vass (39:55)
⁓ again, you know, my agent is not super concerned. That being said, I felt like there were a couple of things that I just sort of it was honestly just a gut feeling. I was like, I think maybe we've started the story in the wrong place. I think like here's a few sort of pinch points where I feel like we could escalate the stakes a little bit. So I did like a fairly significant rewrite ⁓ that my agent didn't know like.
Molly Galler (40:19)
interesting.
Carla Vass (40:23)
We we sort of chatted and he's okay, yeah, just change like these three things, like, and we're good. And then I sent him back a draft and it was like all red. And he's like, What happened? ⁓ but there were just a few things where I thought, like, I just feel like this is, you know, we we could sort of make it make it better. so we go out for the third time, and at this point it's May, April, May, and
I'm also kind of nervous. And, you know, and there's also only so many. Like if you want to sort of prioritize being with an imprint that's part of one of the big five publishers, you know, there's only like so many ⁓ before you start getting into smaller indie presses, which are also amazing. But you know, you you just have to think about sort of you know, what do you want and who's sort of a good fit for you. So I think we were running out of like sort of our, you know, our our
Molly Galler (40:52)
Yeah.
Carla Vass (41:18)
our options that would have been like our first choices, basically. ⁓ And then within like days of sending it, this time we started getting calls from editors right away. ⁓ And so this was with my revised draft. Yep. Yeah. And so it was, you know, but it was almost a year later. I mean, it was, you know, we went out in September. And of course, you know, there's breaks and things like that in between.
Molly Galler (41:30)
Mmm. And this was with your revised draft, V2. Wow.
Carla Vass (41:47)
⁓ but it was just after Memorial Day, that's the first holiday, yeah. ⁓ that we, you know, I started having calls ⁓ with editors and then we had an auction like a couple days later. ⁓ and you know, that was almost 15 months ago, so you know, almost a year and a half ago, I guess, at this point. But ⁓ you know, so it had a happy ending. But I really for a while there thought that the book was.
You know, the expression is is dying on submission. ⁓ you know, and it was, yeah, it was, you know, it was tense. But
Molly Galler (42:21)
Yeah.
I think first of all, thank you for sharing so honestly about all of that. I think it's so vulnerable to be like, and then I waited and waited and waited. And also it's very cool that in your gut you felt like, I think I can up the ante here on how it feels to read this first draft and and give me the, you know, room to do that and let's see if it makes a difference. And in the end, your gut was right. And that that set of changes allowed people to get hooked faster.
And to imagine a way that they would be able to distribute and promote the story. And we always love asking this because this answers are so varied. Did you have a idea of what you hoped the cover would look like? Did you share any inspiration with the team or did or did they share something that was just like out of left field and you wound up loving it?
Carla Vass (43:15)
Yeah, so that was a very interesting process because I had no idea, you know, what sort of went into the book cover. so very early on, they did send me a brief ⁓ where they asked me questions, they asked for sort of reference points, ⁓ anything that I thought would be particularly good to include on a cover. ⁓ so I sent that to them.
And then I didn't hear back for like months and months. ⁓ you know, so I think I probably I gave them some initial my initial thoughts in September. And I saw a first draft of the cover in March. and it was and actually the arc that you have is yes, so that was so.
Molly Galler (43:51)
no.
Yes, it's it's an earlier iteration. It's red. I'm covering your name there. There we go. It's red.
Carla Vass (44:04)
We so we essentially had you know, they had that as kind of the initial, you know, the the initial draft with a couple of different, you know, so that's red. I think they had it in a teal and like an orange as well for kind of the primary color on the background. And, you know, there's a whole art team and a lot of people that go into the, you know, designing the cover.
⁓ and they really wanted to reference kind of vintage movie posters, ⁓ you know, sort of it definitely feels it feels to me, it feels a little bit vintage. It feels sort of like you you know you're in Europe, you know it's gonna be about sort of cars. And I was actually super happy with the initial, you know, with with what I initially saw. and so
Molly Galler (44:34)
Mm.
Carla Vass (44:53)
I mean, and I was kind of like because I I have author friends who have seen the first draft and they've kind of said, no. ⁓ and so for me, I was like, okay, cool. Like I feel like we're on the right track. Like, as long as we end up somewhere in this universe, I'm, you know, I'm good with that. then they went back and they were doing different, you know, rounds for months. I mean, we actually didn't have so the final cover is this one, the rally.
Molly Galler (44:55)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, it's beautiful.
Carla Vass (45:23)
⁓ and we actually didn't have this until the end of June, July, maybe. Yeah, which for an end of September release is cutting it quite close. ⁓ and you know, I think that they and what they what they then came back with was a I mean, it was pretty much exactly what you see, minus a couple of like small, you know, stylistic changes. ⁓ and
Molly Galler (45:29)
Wow.
Sure.
Hmm.
Carla Vass (45:51)
I I mean I love where we ended up. I think it feels a little bit more modern. ⁓ it also feels more feminine. Like I do think that the initial cover was quite masculine. and you know, there's it's you know, you see a little bit more of Charlie here, you know, there so it's it's kind of for me, I was I I love the cover and you know I've gotten great, great feedback on it from readers. but it it definitely took them some time. Like I think they were really going through and tweaking and iterating.
Molly Galler (46:00)
Hmm.
Yes.
It's awesome.
Carla Vass (46:21)
⁓ and you realize like how much incredible work just goes into in into these decisions and into making the cover come to life, which was, you know, it's I I was not I did not have a front front row seat to it, but it's it's really cool to see.
Molly Galler (46:34)
For sure. You're also currently on your book tour, trotting all over. And I have to say, you did an initial event at Books and Books in Miami. And my family lived in Miami for 20 years. And we were huge supporters of Mitchell and Jonah Kaplan and the empire that is Books and Books. And I will say for those who maybe haven't been or can go in the future, not only does Books and Books put on one of the best.
Carla Vass (46:39)
All over
My gosh.
Yes.
Molly Galler (47:01)
book festivals anywhere in the world, which happens every November. But they have been champions fighting against banned books for a very long time. And if you have the opportunity to visit one of their stores in Miami or even in the Miami airport, please, please, please support them because what they're doing is incredible. And they've created such a great community of readers in Miami who have many cafes where they can have coffee and read, order lunch and read. They allow people to host their book club gatherings in their cafes. It's really
Carla Vass (47:04)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Molly Galler (47:31)
really special. And I loved seeing that that was sort of the kickoff to your series of events because they're I'm I'm just repeating the word special over and over again. But they are. They've created something that's so, so, so unique and just beloved locally. And I hope you sold out of every single book that you had with you there. Good.
Carla Vass (47:35)
Yeah.
Yes.
I we did actually. And I was it was it was incredible. And I I mean, so I'm based in Miami. I love Books and Books. ⁓ I've had an opportunity to meet Mitchell and ⁓ Noah and Christina ⁓ and you know, the whole team there, and they're they really are exceptional. I will be going to the Miami Book Fest Miami Book Fair ⁓ in November. So it's it's wonderful. And apparently it's like 300,000 people or something come to Miami for
Molly Galler (48:12)
Yeah.
It's really cool.
Carla Vass (48:21)
the fair every year. ⁓ and a lot of incredible authors will be there. And it's just it it really is they're they're so special and wonderful. And it was such a such a magical night. It was, it was very, very cool.
Molly Galler (48:34)
I love that. And you mentioned earlier, you know, the author themselves is a huge part of marketing on the book tour. And you have been killing it on their Instagram reels. Like there is a lot of this that is self-promotion in a way that can be pretty uncomfortable if you're, I mean, you came from the tech world, so you know that marketing is essential, but not everybody does. How did you kind of get the courage and the confidence to say, you know what?
Carla Vass (48:41)
Yes. ⁓
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Molly Galler (49:03)
I've got to make these videos. I've got to do these recaps. I've got to drive people into these bookstores. Like, how did you get into the headspace of this might be hard, but like I'm doing it and I'm going to create the type of stuff that will engage people?
Carla Vass (49:15)
Yeah. No, and it's so I when I first started this journey, I actually went on TikTok. ⁓ because I was like, I think there's something interesting happening on TikTok in particular. ⁓ this was sort of pre sale. This was the height of, you know, book talk. And I was just sort of like, let me see like what's what's going on over here. Like how how does this work? And you know
And I think ⁓ I think it's like Mel Robbins or something who said this. every ⁓ everyone has said a version of this, but it's like cringe is the price of entry. And it is so true. I mean, and if you want to feel like old and just like really, really humbled, I suggest you get on social media as a woman in your like late 30s because it is a great way to just really get sort of put in your place.
But I think that, ⁓ but but it is true. Like it and and the thing that it has taught me that I'm very grateful for is it it's true, like cringe is the price of entry. Like you just have to get over it and do it. Also, nobody cares. Like nobody is paying attention to you. I I still have friends who, you know, I feel like I've been shouting about this book for years now. And I still have friends being like, yeah, like wait, is your book out yet? Like, you know, it
Molly Galler (50:28)
Mm.
Carla Vass (50:42)
And it it's just because, you know, first of all, the way that the algorithms, you know, work, they're actually not just putting you in front of your friends all day, every day. And they're not surfacing the same thing over and over to them. So ⁓ you know, you you do sort of get to a point ⁓ where, you know, it doesn't quite get comfortable, but you do realize that it's not it it's truly not personal and nobody cares and nobody is watching you as
closely as you think they are. They're really not. Everyone's pretty self-absorbed.
Molly Galler (51:15)
I love that advice. And also I will say we are really active on Instagram from our Plans are Booked account. And the way that it has allowed us to create real connections with readers all over the world who we would never have had the chance to meet, we had sort of a viral moment around Christmas time last year where our reaction videos to Heated Rivalry really popped off. And we started to hear from people from all over the world who were also watching and who wanted to talk about the books and the casting and
Hopes for a season two. And during those months where we had sometimes like hundreds of comments by the hour, I thought to myself, we could never gather this many people in a room to talk about this. And how cool that we found this shared space where we all love the same thing and we can chat about that. ⁓ and you know, like for us being able to follow along, now you're in Boston for your event tomorrow, but to follow along as you've had the chance to go to all these different cities and meet different readers and
Carla Vass (51:56)
Yeah. Yeah.
Molly Galler (52:11)
The events have been different depending on, you know, Miami, San Francisco, all these different places. It's cool as someone who's like cheering on an author to kind of go behind the scenes with them in a way you couldn't really follow the whole book tour in real life, but you're getting a chance to have glimpses into the stuff that you're excited about. And the time that you put into it is such a gift to the readers who are excited about supporting you and supporting your book.
Carla Vass (52:30)
Absolutely.
100%. And I will say it has been amazing. The so you know, tomorrow I'm gonna be in Boston ⁓ at this lovely bookstore called Hummingbird Books. And I my conversation partner is Emily Everett, who wrote an incredible book called All That Life Can Afford. ⁓ it was a Reese's book club pick. And
I met her on social media just from reaching out to her. I read her book. I loved it. And I was like, this feels like a sibling book. Like, let me just reach out and say hi. And we sort of began this, you know, friendship from afar. And now, you know, we're gonna meet in person for the first time tomorrow. And she's, you know, doing this great, you know, fun book event with me, and we'll have a great conversation. So there have been so many incredible opportunities that have really come from social media and just from connecting to people and
connecting with readers. And it's been, I I have to say, like it has been magical for for that reason alone. Like that's truly been the best part of of all of this. Yeah.
Molly Galler (53:37)
Totally.
I love that. I love that. Speaking of other authors, we always like to ask, are there any books you read this year that you really loved or you think that people should give a shot?
Carla Vass (53:50)
Yes. Ooh. yes. So let me hold on. There's there's quite a few. I ⁓ okay, hold on. I need to go back to the so a couple of things. ⁓ there is this gr so I loved ⁓ First of all, All That Life Can Afford. It came out last year, but you know, it was
Molly Galler (53:57)
Okay, good.
Carla Vass (54:17)
Something that I feel like I found out about maybe a couple months after it came out. It ⁓ fantastic book. If you love the rich people behaving badly genre, it has that glamorous European travel vibe. absolutely loved it. ⁓ I loved Emma Emma Brodie's Into the Blue. ⁓ I thought it was such a an amazing love story. At first I was sort of like, what? Like they work in a video store. Like it's a little bit sort of like niche, I think, in s in certain ways.
Molly Galler (54:22)
Okay.
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Carla Vass (54:46)
⁓ But what an incredible incredible love story just done so well. There is a book that I am actually reading right now. It is ⁓ indie published and it's by this incredible historian. ⁓ I'm trying to I don't want to butcher the name, so I just want to make sure that I let me let me actually just double check and I'll get you like the full ⁓
Molly Galler (55:01)
Okay.
No, that's okay. Look it up.
Carla Vass (55:16)
The full name, but It is all about women in it's it's essentially it's called my daily, My Daily Bounded Realm. It is about women in the outer banks, ⁓ in the early 1900s, I wanna say, and what life was like for them.
Molly Galler (55:27)
Okay.
Okay.
Hmm.
Carla Vass (55:39)
And it's a real page turner. It's actually told from it's almost like a daily journal entry of if you were a woman sort of living in this era. And it's astounding. First of all, the fact that she, that the author, there's so much detail in it, it's so rich, but it's also just like a joy to read. Like you do want to keep reading. It's actually a page turner. And you will never ever take for granted your dishwasher, like your laundry machine.
Molly Galler (55:45)
Huh.
Mm.
Okay.
Carla Vass (56:08)
Truly, these women, it was like, we gotta wash clothes. Okay, we have to plan two weeks in advance because we have to get the water and we have to make the soap. And it's it's just this amazing sort of look into what life was like for women. And you know, I think it you you you don't sort of take anything for granted, but it gives you this sort of very deep perspective on almost sort of like where we came from. and
Molly Galler (56:14)
Right.
Mm.
Carla Vass (56:36)
It's it's just fascinating. ⁓ so it's called, I will, I know, I'm I want to make sure. So it's called My Daily Bounded Realm. ⁓ the author's name, I just want to make sure that I don't butcher this. hold on, let me see. I have a photo of it. I don't have it on me right now because I'm traveling.
Molly Galler (56:38)
Love that.
Yes, take your time.
Okay, I can look it up.
Carla Vass (57:01)
Yeah, I can ⁓ I can share you the full I'll I'll give it to you afterwards so you have the full yeah. ⁓ her first name is Robin, I know. And I actually had a chance to meet her when I was at doing an event in the Outer Banks. So it just yeah, and I also I I mean listen, I do feel like we I'm kind of sick of hearing about like the same three books. You know what I mean? So ⁓ I I really do try and and by the way, like you're you're hearing about the same three books because they are phenomenal.
Molly Galler (57:06)
Great. I love that. Okay, I love that.
So cool.
Amen to that.
Carla Vass (57:31)
you know, they're great. But I think we need to, you know, step step off sort of the the well-trodden path a little bit. So I do make a concerted effort to do that.
Molly Galler (57:40)
Definitely. Definitely. And I also think some of the best authors who we now know as traditionally published started out as self-published indie authors who were publishing things that were really important to them and didn't want to wait for one of those big five publishing houses to catch up to seeing that what they were doing. I mean, always think about The Martian as one of those the best examples of that, right? He went from
Carla Vass (57:47)
Yeah.
Molly Galler (58:10)
Countless rejections and just posting his manuscript online to Matt Damon playing his lead character, which as a Boston girl, that is like the upper echelon of who could be, you know, cast in your in your story. And I think, you know, we also have talked about a lot on this podcast, Kathryn Stockett's original book, The Help. She didn't even get her book deal until she was 42. That's right. So I think, you know, I'm all for things that are not on the
Carla Vass (58:14)
Yeah.
Yes. Yeah.
Right? Rejection after rejection. Yes.
Molly Galler (58:40)
top 10 that everybody's reading, or you know, everyone can read Akatar if they feel like it, but there's also so many other authors that are worthy of time and attention. So I love that one, you're shouting out something that ⁓ is the last or known and also just that is women centered. Like I will choose that all day, every day. I think that's amazing. ⁓ you have given us so much of your time. Would you please tell
Carla Vass (58:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
The ⁓ sorry.
Molly Galler (59:06)
The listeners where they can find you, how they can follow along with all things Carla and The Rally.
Carla Vass (59:12)
Absolutely. No. So you can find me on ⁓ Instagram primarily or TikTok at Carla Vass Books. I you know, my website is Carlavass.com. Seriously, I actually do like respond to DMs on my Instagram. I love connecting with readers. I've been dropping in ⁓ on a with a bunch of book clubs.
Which has been so much fun. ⁓ you know, so if you if you want like a book club visit, you can ⁓ just sign up on my website. I have a little form just for scheduling. And ⁓ it it really is like a privilege to connect with readers, I have to say. So definitely come say hi.
Molly Galler (59:50)
That so much. And listeners, if you want to see all the titles that we mentioned today, we share all of those with every episode when it goes live on Thursdays. So you can follow us on Instagram at Plans Are Booked. We'll have that full title list of everything that Carla mentioned, as well as where you can find her book. So if you don't have it already, you can become a reader of The Rally. And as always, if you prefer, you can watch this episode on YouTube or listen on Apple or Spotify. And you can write to us at plansarebooked at gmail.com if there's any ideas.
or feedback or books you'd like us to cover, please reach out. We're always happy to hear from you. And until next time, our plans are booked.