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Welcome to The Executive Exchange, a premier podcast series for on-the-go senior executives. Each episode features short, impactful podcasts where industry leaders share key insights and experiences from the water industry.
[00:00:00] Piers Clark: Welcome to the Exec Exchange 15 minute podcast, in which a leader from the water sector shares a story to inspire, inform, and educate other water sector leaders from around the globe. My name is Piers Clark, and today my guest is Claus Homann, the Chief Strategy Officer at Aarhus Vand Water Utility in Denmark.
[00:00:20] Piers Clark: Claus, brilliant to connect with you.
[00:00:22] Claus Homann: Thank you. I also appreciate the connecting this morning.
[00:00:26] Piers Clark: Now, let's understand a bit about your background. So tell me how long have you been with Aarhus Vand and what did you do before you joined the organization?
[00:00:36] Claus Homann: I've been with Aarhus Vand now for 15 years. When Aarhus Vand was established as a limited company. And before that I've had 19 years in consulting engineering. After that I worked with organizational development, also education, for a while. So I've sort of been transferred from engineering to people matter, organizational matters, and then back to utility. But my role is more the strategic the organizational development part and trying to frame the change of Aarhus Vand, over the last 15.
[00:01:13] Piers Clark: Excellent. Well, now let's talk a bit about Aarhus Vand. Where is it? How many people do you serve? What sort of activities do you do?
[00:01:20] Claus Homann: We have 240 people and we do drinking water, wastewater, storm water, which is the traditional part.
[00:01:29] Claus Homann: But I think, we actually created, a clear purpose some years back, which is providing health through clean water for people on planet. And that serves a bit of the track and the development we have done from being a core utility, having a focus on efficiency when we were established to produce more or less 2% every year over a 10 to 15 years period.
[00:01:55] Claus Homann: So that has been the drive of innovation and development. Which the startup said, okay, it is not only about technology development. We also need to develop the organization, people, how we work together. So we learned that we need to grow. Growth in terms of mindset, in terms of services.
[00:02:14] Claus Homann: We also brought in business development. Our global activities and also our living lab, which also attract a kind of a customer or shared interest in development.
[00:02:27] Piers Clark: You've arguably got the most fun job in the company, haven't you?
[00:02:29] Piers Clark: Because you've got the playing with how did we make this organization better. Can we just also pin down exactly where you are. So you are in Denmark, you are 2-3 hours from Copenhagen, I believe. How many people do you serve?
[00:02:42] Claus Homann: The location is correct. We are on the peninsula and we serve about 400,000 people in Aarhus.
[00:02:49] Claus Homann: Aarhus is the second largest city in Denmark. And, of course, size matters, but it also does when you are a size of 240 people and you have an important organization within an important municipality. So look at Aarhus, and see next to the Bay, beautiful place.
[00:03:10] Piers Clark: As it happens, we're recording this in late October, 2025 and I'm due to visit you. I don’t know whether you're aware, I'm due to visit in early December, so I'm hopefully going to get to experience the beauty of the second city of Denmark.
[00:03:24] Piers Clark: Now, the topic we're gonna talk about today is the Teal Initiative, an amazing initiative that was described to me as we're applying a manager list approach within Aarhus Vand. I believe this was your baby. This was your idea, and it is a radical new way of structuring an organization. Claus, tell me what is the Teal initiative?
[00:03:51] Claus Homann: To be honest, since 2010 Aarhus Vand has worked with organizational development, creating a value-based organization and also setting direction, alignment and creating commitment in groups, which is, not leadership as a position, but more of moving the organization. Leadership and fellowship are important matters to us.
[00:04:15] Claus Homann: Three years ago we were sitting at Denmark's annual meeting. And then a professor from University of Copenhagen came up and he pointed out that “the organization of the future it’s called Teal”. And we looked at each other and said, well, we didn't know that, what we are doing actually has a name. Frédéric Laloux actually wrote the book about the Teal Organization, reinventing Organization. And you're right, some people talk about the leaderless organization, which for us is not the issue.
[00:04:45] Claus Homann: But that is actually what's happening and what's gonna happen over the next 10 years. But it might be too scary for people to understand. We are more focused on creating an organization of the future that will attract young people and senior people in the same environment. People are too busy talking about the different generation and how they should be managed or how they should be in the position.
[00:05:10] Claus Homann: But for us, it's about having everyone in the same, doing the job at Aarhus Vand which is so important. We started two years ago on our working groups, which is kind of Teal based, where these working groups have a terms of reference and a lifetime of 6 to12 months.
[00:05:30] Claus Homann: Then we have different roles. For example, we have a sponsor, we have a task manager, we have a facilitator, and we have core people in the staff. Normally five to seven maximum because you need the flexibility to be able to make decision in those teams. So, you put decision from upper level, actually down in the organization.
[00:05:49] Claus Homann: And the guidance for these teams are besides the terms of reference, it's our purpose to create health through clean water for people and planet, but also having a shared understanding of how Aarhus Vand is developing and what is our core value. Now we can see the engagement and the possibility to take responsibility, where knowledge are and where decision needs to be taken. And the bottleneck from the past for line managers, but also technical professional leaders are far less.
[00:06:21] Piers Clark: It's a fascinating initiative and let me play back what I think I've heard and correct me if I've got this wrong. Traditionally there's a hierarchy. I report to someone and that person reports to someone else, and the cascade of decisions goes all the way up to someone who sits at the pinnacle of the organization. Who then cast the view and then we all do whatever they tell us. You've turned that around, you've said, no, no. Here's the framework of how we're going to make our decisions. This is what our purpose is and then you are empowering the teams to actually make those decisions bottom up. Have I got that right?
[00:06:54] Claus Homann: Yeah, you're right. In many organizations when you build the hierarchy, you also sort of frame people in different positions. Here you give the teams the flexibility to decide who's doing what within each team. That means that you can have a young person coming in with absolutely no experience, but still with backup from senior people, close to within the team. Because the aim of this group here is to make tomorrow even better than yesterday.
[00:07:27] Piers Clark: So, I think that's a really key point there in that you haven't pulled together teams and said, right, you are the facilitator and you are the person who's going to be thinking about the finances, and you are the person who's gonna be thinking about health and safety.
[00:07:37] Piers Clark: You pull the teams together and you let them decide who's going to take which role in the project.
[00:07:43] Claus Homann: Yeah. We have projects, but we don't call it a project, every time when you call it a project, you roll up a lot of things you had to do in order to prepare yourself for moving forward.
[00:07:54] Claus Homann: And that is one of the obstacles for the flexibility also within the organization. When you have larger organization, you have larger things to do you can do project wise. But years back, we also had a line on innovation. Knowing that exploration testing, trying, learning has become an important part of daily work.
[00:08:09] Claus Homann: So to have that in place together with good planning and so on, that created the creative environment within Aarhus Vand's organization. And that is what we've been structured now, you could call it Teal team, but T eal is too much of a concept. But that allows leadership to be taken within the team, close to the task and with far less people at upper level.
[00:08:33] Piers Clark: Alright . So now let's talk about what the downsides are, 'cause I can think if I put myself into my traditional how an organization operates, I find myself going, well surely you've now slowed down the decision making because you've got a committee making decisions. And perhaps those decisions are being made by people who are enthusiastic, but they don't have the necessary experience and skillset. Is that something you've experienced?
[00:08:57] Claus Homann: Some groups actually want to have the decision and some are really scared about the taking the responsibility on their shoulders, not really knowing whether they will be blamed for the decision they make. So, there's a lot of learning to be made here. Also, we have a kind of a counseling system, because it's not only that each working group must take decision, they can ask anyone within or outside the organization for an advice. So they actually build in understanding of the decision they make in within that working group, especially if it has effect on other part of the organization.
[00:09:38] Claus Homann: So you could say there that there's a lot of framework around it that nurse these development and it's taken step by step. I think some of the people in Aarhus Vand who lead by position, and see themself in a specific role like me and others. Responsibilities are taken away from our shoulders and then suddenly not knowing and having the same control as you had in the past.
[00:10:01] Claus Homann: So it's also about trust. And then it's also about intervening. For example, me working on a strategic level for many years, you can't expect working groups to have the same experience. So you need to add drops of experience, so they are more comfortable in making decisions, going in the right direction that fits Aarhus Vand and our environment's interest.
[00:10:25] Piers Clark: How's the organization responded? How many people, loved the idea and how many people have gone? No, I hate this. I used to have responsibility and you've now taken it away from me. How's it gone down?
[00:10:36] Claus Homann: We have done some measurements actually. At first, it was pretty scary. But, we have constantly had informations and also it's not about having a concept. We have created the concept ourself, and just before we went live here, we got our guidebook of how to do the work, which has been created over the last year plus.
[00:11:10] Claus Homann: It takes, 5-6 months actually to calm down in any position that you're in. And today I would say there's still people who don't understand why this is necessary and how is it different from a project organization. Well, that's still work to be done. We don't expect this to be in place for a year and a year and a half, it's a long-term development goal we set.
[00:11:20] Piers Clark: And it will change as you bring new people in and they have to learn how you do things. It will be this, constant process, won't it? Because you'll have refreshed blood coming in and people needing to learn. This is how we make decisions in Aarhus Vand. If you had to list out the three key benefits that you saw from this approach, what would they be?
[00:11:51] Claus Homann: I would say many people in the organization in the past were very much alone with that job and when they were sick, went on holiday day and so on, no one could take or carried that job. Today, there's a team around every job, meaning that you're not alone in your position. So, we are much more, strong in terms of flexibility and so on.
[00:12:00] Piers Clark: And that gives you organizational resilience.
[00:12:02] Claus Homann: Exactly and motivation. I think when we passed the fear and anxiety and so on, and then you realize that this is real. I have influence on my job. Then you sort of get the spirit, to be engaged and motivated. I think people say that normally 2/3 of people in an organization are not really motivated. We can feel that engagement, not only because of this, but also because of this.
[00:12:28] Piers Clark: Yeah, we all want to feel like we're turning up to work and empowered to do things, trusted to make a decision. And actually this empowers people all the way through the organization. They're not just doing a transactional job, they're really contributing. Alright. I've got an organization, resilience, motivation, and an empowerment. What would be your third benefit?
[00:12:49] Claus Homann: I would say, our flexibility to move direction in terms of Corona comes up, energy prices increases, a drought, a flood, an attack on our system and so on. We had people ready to change and take responsibility when the task is defined, within an hour, tomorrow and so on. Not many organization are able to have that response time.
[00:13:15] Claus Homann: So we see it, also because we are a utility that has breakdown and problems. We have firefighters, but this is a different kind of firefighters. It's actually to do the job and create what we need to do for the society.
[00:13:30] Piers Clark: Excellent. Claus, I could, talk to you for a long time about this initiative and I wish you the absolute best. I love the fact that you're two years in and still seeing that it's another couple of years before you get to completion of what you want to achieve. We're running out of time, so let's finish with our usual final question of, Claus, if you could go back in time, if you could go back 40 years, to when you were just starting your career, what advice would you give your younger self?
[00:13:55] Claus Homann: I think my advice, to myself should be more bold and take the risk that needs to be taken to follow your heart.
[00:14:02] Piers Clark: You have been listening to the Exec Exchange with me, Piers Clark. And my guest today has been Claus Homann, the Chief Strategy Officer at Aarhus Vand Water Utility in Denmark, and we've been talking about the Teal Initiative.
[00:14:18] Piers Clark: I hope you can join us next time. Thank you.