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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;18;16
Pri
Hey, do you guys want me to show you some content? Coins?
00;00;18;19 - 00;00;21;08
Aaron
Please do. Please. Please do.
00;00;21;24 - 00;00;33;04
Pri
I don't have any to show. Actually, I just said that the tea of this conversation of what is happening on the timeline with respect to content coins. Have you guys been, like, following that deeply?
00;00;33;07 - 00;00;43;04
Aaron
Like a little bit. I saw, like, the the weird marketing from from base, which I didn't find that offensive and everybody's just seems to be going nuts over it. Did I miss something?
00;00;43;06 - 00;01;01;01
Pri
I don't know, I mean, I thought the, the content coin stuff is Zora, like, I feel like I haven't. I got this app called Opal, which basically blocks you from like being able to check specific apps on your phone. And so I put X on that. So I feel like I only have bits and pieces of what's actually going on here.
00;01;01;01 - 00;01;12;11
Pri
But basically it's just like social tokens rebranded. And I think Zora is putting it on base, and that's why Jesse and co are weighing in on it. Am I getting it right?
00;01;12;14 - 00;01;49;00
Chris
So I'm the one who was on vacation this week and I am more wired up than you guys. So I'll do the quick recap here. Jesse and dis dropped a Zora content coin that was literally just, picture. That's a basis for everyone. And that was the coin. Someone grab 21% of supply right around initial launch. Everyone seeing it coming from the base account then caved in, and the person holding all the supply run, the whole liquidity pool.
00;01;49;03 - 00;02;22;28
Chris
Well, I mean, they didn't rug it. They just cashed out and the token cratered. And so you got that. That is the real crime right there is people lost money on something that they thought was coming from a credible source due to, I guess, the only way I could frame it is bad product design. And so, you know, to me, this this really is just more of the, the same failures happening over in the, the ethe L2 culture layer.
00;02;23;00 - 00;02;55;21
Chris
You know, it's the gang that can't shoot straight and it's, over and over and over again to the point where I guess credibility is getting exhausted out there. And I think a lot of the the frustration that's happening out in the timeline and in the space is really just boils down to why? Why are we dealing with all this shit like, why is our supposed best and brightest dropping these half assed things that wash everybody?
00;02;55;21 - 00;03;00;17
Chris
And I think it's just the sheer exhaustion of it all would be my take on the situation.
00;03;00;20 - 00;03;13;26
Aaron
Yeah, I saw somebody say, I think it was latent from pull together and please, you know, and crypto on on the tech. But it's it's lost on the culture. I thought that that kind of summarized a bit of that sentiment, Chris, which I thought was pretty interesting.
00;03;13;28 - 00;03;44;27
Chris
Yeah. The the problem to me sits between the two, which is at the product level, you know, like you can win on the tech if you don't piece the tech together correctly into good product, then, you know, how can you actually have quote unquote on chain culture. And so my, my, my takeaway coming back from this whole thing is that whether or not content coins should exist, right, is is really a matter for like time and a market to decide.
00;03;45;00 - 00;04;17;00
Chris
But you know, X times Y equals k as, you know, as your dex, implementation for these coins is dead fucking wrong because we all know how you know, meme coins and the Uniswap AMM approach works, right? And like, we've literally had a year of of seeing this in action and knowing that if someone accumulates a huge portion of the of the supply, they're going to drain the pool the second the pool is juicy enough.
00;04;17;03 - 00;04;44;26
Chris
And so if you're supposedly creating a consumer culture offering that has that huge a hole that anyone in the universe can drive a truck through, what that says to me is your product and you should know better. And the fact that you don't care, right? Like that to me, is the real I don't know the tragedy of this latest mess we're dealing with.
00;04;44;28 - 00;05;04;17
Aaron
What is also like just the tragedy of a commons? You know, I wonder what happens from that. Do you think we get to see? Do we learn all our lessons? Finally, Chris, does it just lead to more centralization? It feels like it may be the latter. Or does it lead to the inevitable triumph of RWA? Who's the last person that has about it?
00;05;04;19 - 00;05;32;15
Chris
Yeah. It's a it's a tricky one. Right. My like I've dealt with this sort of stuff. Right. Like I ran a very complex product. You had to really treat it like video game design in which a single weak link can I do the whole thing? Which meant you had to think it through. You had to find any potential exploit or, you know, ways it could go catastrophically off the rails, and you had to solve for that prior to releasing.
00;05;32;18 - 00;05;55;22
Chris
Now, crypto should absorb that lesson because it's happened over and over and over again, and crypto doesn't absorb the lesson. And that's something where I just like, kind of kept banging my head against the wall, being like, why do we keep repeating these same patterns and failures? And kind of a takeaway for me was I had like a real cost of goods, right?
00;05;55;22 - 00;06;20;03
Chris
Like we had serious financial skin in the game. And when we messed up, we bought that loss. Therefore isn't the organization. Our job was to like vet this up and down across all, you know, our sales team, our finance team, our product team, our marketing team. Right. Like, we had to socialize and discuss all of these things related to the product prior to pushing the product out there.
00;06;20;06 - 00;06;42;15
Chris
Crypto doesn't have any cost of goods, especially at these L2 middleman platforms. And therefore like they don't have any skin in the game when they go wrong other than the reputation, which they don't seem to care about because they keep doing this over and over again. And so maybe that's the issue is if you're a middleman and you don't have any costs, right.
00;06;42;15 - 00;06;48;22
Chris
And there's no penalties for you to like, keep swinging for home runs, you're just going to do it over and over again.
00;06;48;24 - 00;06;50;05
Aaron
What do you impose the cost on them?
00;06;50;12 - 00;07;16;24
Chris
Well, they don't have a cost. And therefore I think it's on the audience or, you know, the consumers to just not trust them at all. But that's a really bleak and very harsh thing position to take. But I mean, come on. We've we've given these people 40 chances now. You know, for me, 992 times, why should there be a 993?
00;07;16;26 - 00;07;38;20
Pri
I guess for me, the penalty is basically like the exhaustion causes a total dismissal of the space. So, you know, to the point of the tragedy of the commons, like, it's like the more we try to like rebrand things and people feel like there's zero investment in what you have to do because it's so cheap to try it.
00;07;38;20 - 00;08;03;07
Pri
And there's no, like, reputational risk. You just go in and do it and it falls flat on its face and whatever, like all of that, because there's no like real risk to doing that. People obviously, like you're saying, are just continuing to do that. I guess my point is that's creating an exhaustion on the buy side, to the point where, you know, you can't keep doing that and it's killing the entire ecosystem.
00;08;03;07 - 00;08;22;10
Pri
So at some point it's there has to be a realization that this isn't working. I should probably stop even if I want to experiment. Like for me, the content coin thing, like the rug pull is one thing. The fact that we're rebranding like social tokens and influencer tokens and, you know, meme tokens, like, I'm just kind of tired of that.
00;08;22;10 - 00;08;39;13
Pri
Like it's zero innovation. It's just narrative. It's like annoying and not interesting and it's on it. It's like the same thing on a different platform, like the entire like all the venture deals. I see it see that are like prediction market. But on hyper liquid I'm just like, I don't care anymore. Like that's not interesting to me, I guess.
00;08;39;13 - 00;08;45;01
Pri
Isn't that the real risk is just malaise and disinterest in the entire ecosystem?
00;08;45;03 - 00;08;59;28
Aaron
Yeah, that happened in AI, right? They called it the AI Winter. I just think that because of ETFs, we've been in this this thought that there was we're out of crypto winter. But until there's new innovation there really can't be another significant cycle.
00;09;00;02 - 00;09;08;23
Chris
But Aaron I don't think we need innovation. And I think we need competence and professionalism. I don't think we're lacking for the tech. We're lacking for people to use it.
00;09;08;26 - 00;09;33;27
Aaron
Yeah, I think it's just it's tragic. The comments that you can't prevent any, any person from doing this right. I think you've noted, at least to me and a bunch of the Dao calls. Right. Like it? It's an open, permissionless system, so you can't really prevent people from engaging in this. I guess the only solution would be if there's like a a different decks of some sort that makes rug pulling impossible, right?
00;09;33;27 - 00;09;51;20
Aaron
Or some tech solution, and that that becomes the primary place where liquidity is pooled, right. Or that tokens reside. And until that becomes kind of the norm, I just don't see how you fully like work yourself out of this. Like you need some sort of tech tech innovation for it.
00;09;51;22 - 00;10;17;01
Chris
The tech exists. I mean, baseline exists, right? Baseline markets could put a floor under all these tokens. You have anti sniper governors that exists out there. So people who can't accumulate. You know if you just want to stay in the the Uniswap decks model. And so it's not that we lack for these things. It's that no one is implementing them because they'd rather move fast and break things.
00;10;17;04 - 00;10;36;25
Chris
And you know, to your point around the tragedy of commons, this isn't an anon team. We're talking about. We're talking about like Jesse Pollock and Jacob Horn right now. So, you know, that's like one of these things where I mean, you just kind of throw your hands up like, look, I've been on a capital strike for a while now within the space.
00;10;36;27 - 00;11;04;28
Chris
The thing I'm feeling a fool for is still giving it my attention. Like I need to go on an attention strike. And I think one of the only reasons I'm speaking up around this, and I haven't completely tuned it out, is I think the state is finally ready to hear it because it wasn't for years. And so, you know, like you hope like you really hope some of it's finally ready to, like, pull their head out of their ass and live in reality.
00;11;05;01 - 00;11;25;26
Chris
Like being crypto native doesn't mean you're allowed to ignore all the fundamental rules of business and product and customer relationships. And we're at this point now where as an industry and as an ecosystem, people have to embrace that reality, or I think it's done for. And yes, RWA man wins.
00;11;25;28 - 00;11;41;28
Aaron
Is what we hosted an event with, the Prime capital folks got the most controversial opinion that you have, and somebody gave a presentation about how they, they think, tokens are horrible, which I thought was pretty interesting, but there was nothing redeeming about tokens.
00;11;42;00 - 00;11;44;02
Pri
It's just like, how do you view tokens?
00;11;44;04 - 00;11;44;28
Aaron
Yeah.
00;11;45;00 - 00;11;58;22
Pri
It's a good point. I do find myself, like, sometimes, like, I'll see this stuff and like, I like, we'll see another rebrand and I'm just like, roll my eyes and kind of just like, move on. And I'm like, I could dig around to understand, like, what people are fussing about. Or I could just, like, read something out that's interesting.
00;11;58;22 - 00;12;20;03
Pri
And it's like, it's it's a little bit tragic because there's a lot of interesting people who've self-selected into Bitcoin. Like for some reason or another, whether it be like technological, whether it be social or political, whatever, like got them and like there's is a very interesting group of people, probably some of the most smartest, you know, curious, interesting people.
00;12;20;03 - 00;12;47;08
Pri
I think I've like met in my whole life. I would say, like, is there people adjacent to the space? But and despite that, it like feels like especially maybe as a result of meme coins or even like the FTX thing the last cycle, it does feel like the nonsense somehow is the thing that cuts through the noise. Like similarly with like even NFT is like, why did bored Apes cut through the noise despite everything else that was, like, so fascinating and interesting?
00;12;47;11 - 00;13;16;10
Pri
It's like, I don't understand why I guess maybe it's just capital, because like, bored apes went to X level and they were, you know, they're able to get celebrities to to buy it or with meme coins like you got like ridiculous $20 billion market caps, you know, for a couple of these meme coins. But yeah, I guess I don't know, I'm rambling now, but I just don't really understand or I don't know what the solution is outside of, like getting capital to start, like really quickening capital in a way to be like, let's focus on things that are interesting.
00;13;16;10 - 00;13;24;05
Pri
So it actually cuts through the noise rather than just like wasting time on this random bullshit. Like it just is a waste of everyone's.
00;13;24;07 - 00;13;51;11
Aaron
Time and money. And that's why RWA men may win, right? Because they'll focus on stablecoins. Like they'll focus on tokenized securities and the capital will run to that. It's easier to understand things, safe markets, right, than have some form of regulation attached to them. Real benefits, you know, faster settlement, a whole host of efficiencies that that people have talked about in the space for a while.
00;13;51;13 - 00;13;53;28
Aaron
Maybe it needs to retreat. Retreat to that.
00;13;54;00 - 00;14;14;06
Pri
Yeah. I mean, I was I actually, tapped into a black restaurant for, for brunch today and you can like, pay with black words like my I liked it to just even my Apple Pay. And I get like double the fly, whatever it I like looked at that. I'm like, this is like not even really crypto. Like I just think that people are going to start interacting with crypto.
00;14;14;13 - 00;14;30;17
Pri
Like I didn't like, you know, you actually tap into a restaurant, you get an NFT, you don't know that you're getting NFT. You have no desire to traded on secondary. Like, I think there's a lot of people that are going to start collecting points, if you will, like, collect NFTs in these apps and not realize it. And maybe that's just like all crypto is.
00;14;30;17 - 00;14;49;19
Pri
It's like another version of a man that's not like the banks issuing stablecoins. It's just like these like apps that you get in NFTs that aren't like crazy speculative. They're just like things that you get that are on chain and like, that's it. Or you get like, you know, fly because you paid with USD because it hooked up to your Apple Pay.
00;14;49;19 - 00;15;00;03
Pri
Like maybe that's just where crypto ends up from a consumer lens. It's not going to be meme coins or anything like that. I'm just try to think of the the consumer version of RWA, man.
00;15;00;05 - 00;15;24;24
Chris
Yeah, no, it's a good point. I mean, when you interact with any other service, like you're not paying attention to, is it retrieving data from a SQL database, is it using Mongo? Is it using Next.js? Like where's the data store coming from? You don't care why in crypto do we? I'm fetishized. You know the these these units. It is a little weird, but you know maybe that all disappears.
00;15;24;27 - 00;15;40;12
Aaron
Or even I. Right? It's not like when you use ChatGPT, you're counting all your tokens that you're using. It's completely abstracted away, really. Only if you're a developer in some capacity are you paying attention? Mostly. Mostly for costs. Maybe it does get abstracted away.
00;15;40;14 - 00;15;50;26
Pri
And even with prompting, they're going to slowly start abstracting the actual like typed prompt, I think a way and like turn it into buttons that you just, like, choose your own adventure.
00;15;50;28 - 00;15;57;04
Aaron
Yeah. Or at least let me try that. I don't know if that's the way I do that, but that will be definitely one modality related to.
00;15;57;04 - 00;16;25;16
Chris
It that it's just it's the hyper financialized speculative aspect of this is so dominant and so undefeated like that, that that is like the final boss here. Like we're now seeing all its ugly forms. We still can't pull away from it. Right. Like I mean that was the issue with this basis for everyone. Thing is it had hyper financialized speculative properties associated with it.
00;16;25;17 - 00;16;53;23
Chris
And therefore once this, you know, whale position got to, okay, I need to cash out moment. It wrecked the whole thing. Now at the same time, that's an intentional choice in the design, right? Like this. This content coin thing can't go viral unless something wins big. And so you're playing with fire. It's a double edged sword. But for so long, we're only getting the bad end of the sword.
00;16;53;29 - 00;17;15;04
Chris
I mean, I don't know, sword has to, you know. Good. And maybe I'm killing a metaphor there, but, you know, and I mean. Right, like, the choice is intentional on their part. They're not idiots. They know what these things can do, and they're hoping it goes really, really well because it only needs to work a few times. It's, singles don't matter.
00;17;15;04 - 00;17;20;24
Chris
We're always going to be for home runs all the time. Design choices that are dragging the space down.
00;17;20;27 - 00;17;50;19
Pri
What do you think? Or what do you guys think? Where the space goes from here, whether or not like, like like, for example, I don't even know what Jen's are doing right now. Like, are they just kind of similarly letting the tariffs stuff happen and also going on capital strikes, are they finding weird, you know, niche corners to buy things and sell them at like A2X or something like I, I'm curious as to where all the capital in crypto is coming from right now.
00;17;50;19 - 00;18;16;19
Pri
If there is much and if not now, then like what will they jump into as like the stablecoins and all of this more like RWA stuff comes to be like is the era of the gen officially over in the next like year? Because we're going to have rules in place or, and people are going to be so tired anyway that it may even be over from just like social contract point of view, like people don't want to really engage in that anymore.
00;18;16;21 - 00;18;22;17
Pri
Like maybe, maybe what we're feeling right now is that like the days of the gen are kind of numbered, I don't know.
00;18;22;19 - 00;18;49;01
Chris
Yeah. I mean, we're all the opioid addicts. A lot of them unfortunately crashed out. And then, you know, Purdue Pharma was brought to heel. And I realize I'm making a very extreme comparison here and look like my hometown got destroyed by that. And I don't want to diminish it by comparing end to that. But it does feel like there's certain things that are just not sustainable.
00;18;49;03 - 00;19;17;14
Chris
They hit our world and they hit it very hard, and then they just completely disappear because you can't sustain that sort of activity. And so maybe the DJ is a flash in the pan. Maybe it is a moment in time. You know, that was a zerk phenomenon combined with a new technology that people didn't sufficiently understand, and it just created this momentary bubble.
00;19;17;16 - 00;19;23;15
Pri
But like when the market comes back, because at some point it will, you're going to get like the speculative frenzy, I guess. Again.
00;19;23;17 - 00;19;42;09
Aaron
Yeah, it's like the trader types, right? Like I think they they live off of volatility. And so there's always some volatility that they'll feed on. So I don't think it goes away I do think though like as the space matures they just become a smaller and smaller pocket of it. I do think a lot of this is is a little bit like what happened with P2P to Web2.
00;19;42;12 - 00;20;05;11
Aaron
Right. Like file sharing used to be a huge part of the internet's traffic. Like massive like I forgot the exact numbers, but it was like material percentages of internet traffic. I think it well over half. And then out came Spotify, out came YouTube, out came you know, the different social media platforms. And that still exists, but it's a fraction of what it what it was comparatively.
00;20;05;13 - 00;20;25;10
Aaron
And those pockets never died. They just became smaller and smaller and less and less interesting. And there was less and less tech innovation that kind of started there and more and more tech innovation that happened. And kind of the other, more established parts of the of the market for the internet market. I bet that that's what like or I could see that that's what happens kind of here.
00;20;25;13 - 00;20;36;01
Aaron
So I don't think the DJ never dies. Just like I think a lot of these like file sharing communities that they never really died, they just became like less relevant and less interesting.
00;20;36;03 - 00;20;46;19
Chris
How many CB radio operators still exist today? I think model train enthusiasts are still out there, right? Like, yeah, you know, fire up your ham radio after this. No.
00;20;46;21 - 00;21;09;08
Aaron
Yeah, completely. But like, you know, I think I think it's still going exist. I'm hoping that like with the, you know, the only silver lining with RWA man is one there's more legitimacy to the tolerance for these types of shenanigans will continue to go down. So it's not just you and me and kind of raising yellow and red flags related to it.
00;21;09;08 - 00;21;28;17
Aaron
Chris. Right. It's it's more fulsome than that. And then I think three, you know, you just I think you will start to see like more interesting projects happen and other kind of pockets, you know, and I think you even see like with that announcement of no this week that there are people that still believe in a more optimistic future for crypto, right?
00;21;28;17 - 00;21;51;13
Aaron
When we're, you know, these tokens are being used for traders, right? Where there wasn't the the same degree of, shenanigans. There's definitely some shenanigans, but it was a little bit more muted to support creators and imagine a world that all content doesn't have to flow through a large, centralized platform. I personally find that space still to be super interesting.
00;21;51;15 - 00;22;12;26
Pri
I feel like we hammer hammered this point home, but I think part of what we're feeling is I was revisiting actually, like, I know you guys are familiar with, like Carlotta Perez, she studied like tech innovation cycles across railroad and industrial revolution and the scientific revolution. And and, you know, shows the ups and downs and like I was like looking at the framework that she set up.
00;22;12;26 - 00;22;37;15
Pri
And I was trying to, like, figure out where we exactly were. And it's like I feel like the so there's like a 20 to 30 year installation phase. And then during that phase, it's like there's creative destruction. There's a new paradigm versus old paradigm. There's financial capital and then bubble creation. And so thinking about that 2030 year time horizon, you know, Bitcoin was created 2008 or in 2025.
00;22;37;17 - 00;23;02;12
Pri
That feels like kind of more or less like in that. I mean, you know, it's that's kind of right in that 20 to 30 year installation phase. And then there's like a small period of time that's called like the collapse recovery or the turning point. And then from there it's like the deployment phase of like synergy and maturity, which is where you have like creative construction, widespread spread, application of a new paradigm and then production capital leads.
00;23;02;18 - 00;23;22;04
Pri
And so it feels like we're kind of in that turning point, which is why we feel so weird and disenchanted, because like this installation phase, I think sometimes when you're like too early and like the friends, you just like rocks you, it's like one of those things where you just have to like, I guess, I mean, we're calling this RWA man, but it really is just like a turning point.
00;23;22;04 - 00;23;38;12
Pri
And it being more of a constructive, widespread application of a new paradigm. And I think we're entering the next 20 to 30 years of the deployment phase, probably in the next year. Anyways, I just thought that was like helpful kind of making sense of the larger thing. Three yeah.
00;23;38;15 - 00;23;43;06
Chris
Would you say we're actually in the fourth turning? We are crypto, right now.
00;23;43;08 - 00;23;51;05
Pri
We're in the fourth turning of society. And crypto is actually a very big piece of the financial aspects of the Fourth Turning. So yes.
00;23;51;07 - 00;23;58;26
Aaron
Prior regret ever introducing you to the the turning of literature, literature, liturgy. You're really taking it to heart.
00;23;58;29 - 00;24;18;25
Pri
I found this amazing podcast that was just like, listen, the fourth turnings happening. This is just how you should capitalize on it. And I like, listen to I probably listen to that podcast up to like four times. I'm like, yeah, it all makes sense. Like Trump's weird and like insane, but like, he's just a blunt force instrument of what is already happening, which is the fourth turning.
00;24;18;25 - 00;24;33;14
Pri
So it's actually very freeing thought to know that all this is, is just a cycle, a paradigm shift. You have to accept it like water coming down, like it's just it is what it is. Don't need to get enraged.
00;24;33;21 - 00;24;51;28
Aaron
So I've been thinking about something else. Like maybe, maybe it's not, turning. Maybe it's just that there's all these algorithmic systems that are actually dictating more than, like, more stable, consensus based parts of society. That's where my head's been that this past week. I'm thinking a lot about it.
00;24;52;00 - 00;24;59;13
Chris
I've been feeling this.
00;24;59;15 - 00;25;03;08
Aaron
The abyss.
00;25;03;10 - 00;25;24;06
Aaron
Yeah. You know, it's something I. When I wrote my book, I stumbled on a little bit of literature talking about this. I thought it was super compelling. It was called advocacy. It's like governance by algorithms. And some folks are, like, noted that, like, as these competing systems continue to gain power and pervasiveness and scale, you know, they kind of set the rules of the road.
00;25;24;09 - 00;25;46;16
Aaron
You know, you see that in Web2, you know, with things like Uber, right? Like the relationship between passengers and drivers are really dictated by Uber, the platform you see in, you know, Bitcoin and Eath and crypto in the same way. Right. Like the rules related to marketplaces are really set by the the code of Uniswap, like we're just talking about.
00;25;46;19 - 00;26;24;27
Aaron
And it just feels like the systems are just growing faster and scaling much, much faster than legacy institutions. And there's really not much that we can do to stop it. Like an authoritative, authoritative leader. If if that's like you're leaning is not going to stop that, you know, like doubling down on existing institutions is not going to stop at like that probably is the root cause of a lot of the, you know, disintegration and lack of consensus that we kind of feel, you can even think of social media platforms in rules kind of creating that division just so that they can harvest more clicks from us or more attention.
00;26;25;00 - 00;26;32;23
Aaron
So I think we're just living in an advocacy and, I don't have the solution, but it feels like that's actually what's happening now.
00;26;32;23 - 00;27;00;24
Chris
I, I feel it deeply. Right. School break this week we go down to Florida. We're in the keys three days. We're in Miami for two days. I rented a verbal, you know, in Key West, the property manager core ethos. I probably got 15 automated SMS messages for a three night today. It was unreal. Like I had one interact with these people.
00;27;00;24 - 00;27;25;09
Chris
Everything else was signed. This contract. Here's your guide, here's your code. Or is everything okay? Like. And it was just like, can I just rent a place from you pay you get into it and get out of it like enterprise sending me multiple SMS reminding me when my car rental has to be back. It's like I know when my car has to be back.
00;27;25;09 - 00;27;50;26
Chris
It has to be in back an hour before my flight leaves. Can we knock it off? Part of the issue, right, is the platforms have no cognitive costs. They have very little actual cost to deliver these things. And so therefore, like they're incentivized to overwhelm and flood you in the name of you know, managing toward some sort of co-pays and what it does to the customer is punitive.
00;27;50;27 - 00;28;14;00
Chris
Like, sure. Like, why are you complaining, Chris? Because your property manager really wanted to, like Overcommunicate. And it's like, I'm on vacation. I don't want to be looking at my phone, you know, like I don't want to be giving my time to these things. And it's it's, death by a thousand cuts. It's filling a bucket with drops of water.
00;28;14;00 - 00;28;43;13
Chris
But like, when every single thing you interact with assumes, okay, I can now put you on a mailing list, I can now ask you to provide a survey about my service. It's just, like absolutely endless. And none of it actually benefits you, the consumer, who, you know, you're exchanging value with the platform for, you know, and the whole internet's gone downhill that way, you know, what's the point of like news dog google.com anymore?
00;28;43;13 - 00;29;01;15
Chris
Is half the material, you know, half the articles it links to or paywalled or if they're popping up GDPR notices and subscribe to US notices. And it just like everything has gotten so out of hand that you just don't want to engage with it anymore.
00;29;01;17 - 00;29;23;21
Aaron
Yeah. And I think there's like a tyranny to it. Right. And I think that there will be a rebellion against this in some capacity. I don't know what the full solutions are though yet, but to me, I actually think that that's the bigger story that's lurking behind a lot of what we're feeling. It's really just this increasing rule by algorithms like in all pockets of society, you know?
00;29;23;21 - 00;29;42;10
Aaron
And if you if you think you know that to really have freedom, you need, you know, some ability to move around, right? Even when you're on vacation, like as these algorithms gets longer, more pervasive, and I think they're going to go exponential with all the AI stuff. That's how I was thinking about it. I don't know, I think that there's going to be a real reckoning between the two systems.
00;29;42;13 - 00;30;03;28
Pri
Wasn't there? Like someone suggests, like at least maybe this was like a legislative thing or like a political maybe it's just a talking point. But like this idea that you as an individual on the internet could choose the algorithm like you almost like opt in to a specific algorithm and say, you know, these how it's like manipulating you or not manipulating you, but like how you know how it's actually like teeing things up to you.
00;30;03;28 - 00;30;11;17
Pri
So you have just a little more visibility. Like, I think that there was like some conversation around like different algorithms to be that you could choose from.
00;30;11;24 - 00;30;35;05
Aaron
Yeah, I think there's been two things. One is like transparency related to how these systems work. I think like in that infantile period that we just went through where we saw content being shaped by algorithms or, you know, I think there was an early examples where like loan applications were being shaped by algorithms. People said, hey, like, let's have transparency about it and let's make sure that they're not black boxes.
00;30;35;08 - 00;30;57;14
Aaron
I think that's in part why you see the AI companies begin to put the thinking steps out there. So you get to at least have a sense of what the reasoning is so that there are less black boxes. But I don't think that that is going to be enough. Yeah, that's just like disclosure. Yeah. Just because you disclose risks doesn't, doesn't limit the fact that you're kind of like shaped by these things.
00;30;57;19 - 00;31;19;25
Aaron
So like, why is society so divisive now? Well, you know, many people have said it's because of the way social media, you know, quarantines people into their different bubbles and then kind of pits them against each other for attention. That's the root cause, the problem. Right? It's algorithms. It's, it's those pieces that are a much bigger deal than like the purported, like, decaying institutions.
00;31;19;29 - 00;31;24;08
Aaron
So I feel like that's where solutions need to come to come from.
00;31;24;14 - 00;31;45;11
Chris
Yeah, but, like, it's not easy. It's not simple. And people can't, like, make hay out of picking on algorithms at the moment. They'd rather attack Harvard. And, you know, that's part of the other issue. It's like there's there's there's no benefit to like addressing this issue from like an outrage or political capital type of thing.
00;31;45;17 - 00;32;06;11
Aaron
Well, I thought it was interesting that, you know, they are kind of attacking the algorithms. So Chris. Right, like this week, you know, the FTC maintained and or brought like two actions against Google and Meta. Right. So which I found a little bit surprising. I didn't think that that would be the case, but they were brought up. So maybe there is some likely concern related to this.
00;32;06;13 - 00;32;31;26
Pri
I will say what's which. I mean, just take time to the political point. It does feel like a lot of these like ideas, whether it be universities, you know, targeting universities or whatever, are kind of downstream of whatever people are talking about on the internet, which is dictated by the algorithm, like even the past week. Like, and then it gets like leapt into reality, like even the past week, people were talking about like, I think Jack Dorsey put like, IP law should be dead or something.
00;32;31;28 - 00;32;48;03
Pri
And then Elon, you know, retweets are as a comment related to that. And then you have Bill Ackman talking about it. And then you have like other people that, you know, start talking about the IP conversation again randomly. Like maybe it was just like kind of came out of nowhere. Everyone's talking about IP rules all of a sudden.
00;32;48;03 - 00;33;12;27
Pri
And then who knows, maybe six months a year from now like it actually, there's like a whole revamp of the existing IP structure. And, they've just gotten ripped because a couple people on the algorithm that have, like, followings were able to chat about it. And there was like an echo online. As a result, in many ways, it's how like Trump even became president, it was just like the echo of Trump just of like pervaded the algorithm.
00;33;12;29 - 00;33;18;19
Aaron
Right. But that's not a healthy system, right. That's like rule by your loudest person, or your latest people.
00;33;18;21 - 00;33;41;29
Chris
Yeah, yeah. Twitter is in a terrible, terrible state at the moment. And that's possibly why, like, crypto is in a terrible state at the moment, right? Like no one is getting any distribution on Twitter. Impressions are way down. Everyone's wondering in my shadow band. No, you're not out of band. The algorithm is doing this. Now. Why is the algorithm doing this?
00;33;41;29 - 00;34;11;17
Chris
We don't know, but, you know, there's two possible reasons. I'm guessing one is I barely see any quality ads on Twitter. And the number of ads on Twitter right now coming from personal accounts with either, like, you know, schizo extreme political views or, I don't know, like navel gazing, you know, but they're all purported to come from people, you know, who knows how much of that to actually bot farms.
00;34;11;17 - 00;34;37;15
Chris
Right. But is Elon suppressing distribution in order to juice ad revenue? Hoping, you know what, if no one gets any distribution, maybe they'll pay to to get some of this stuff out and they can make up the ad revenue. Or is he doing it, you know, for, to push certain political viewpoints? Either way, it absolutely sucks. And I agree, and alternative that wasn't called far caster.
00;34;37;17 - 00;35;08;14
Aaron
Yeah. Or even like something that's equally partizan, whether it's like threads or where I haven't used blue sky ads, I don't want to pass judgment on that. I don't know, it's a mess. And the algorithms are are growing and they're more, more important. I think what is worrying to me about the growth of. So just one last point here and just they can scale so much further and operate at a speed that I don't think consensus based governance can really operate.
00;35;08;17 - 00;35;38;08
Aaron
And it's part of the reason why I thought blockchains and governance tokens were so interesting, because I don't see how you can in the long run, not have systems that have, like humans at the edges, like managing and weighing in on what the heck these algorithms are. And like whether like the crypto platforms that we were, you know, dunking on at the beginning or great or not, like at least Uniswap has like some like human governance control at at the edges in ways that a lot of these other systems don't.
00;35;38;11 - 00;35;43;15
Aaron
I'm hoping that we kind of find our roots again and, still makes me that hopeful.
00;35;43;17 - 00;35;50;05
Chris
Yeah. Tough episode today, but let's lean into a little your academic background for a second and let's do it.
00;35;50;07 - 00;35;52;15
Pri
Yeah, a lot of optimism here.
00;35;52;18 - 00;36;16;17
Chris
So private law. Yeah. Oh, we had a period of peak private law. Or had there been like similar, historical antecedents that we can draw upon because, you know, that's that's really what this, like algo of ocracy is, is private law controlling so much of public life?
00;36;16;20 - 00;36;45;08
Aaron
No, I mean, I think that we actually had more of that in the US probably 100 plus years ago. I mean, that's been a big cornerstone of the US craze is just the ability sometimes called private ordering. And we here in the States just have only non private ordering as like the primary way to order society. So you could almost argue that the fact that there isn't more private ordering, is part of the reason why there's some of the issues that we have.
00;36;45;10 - 00;36;49;26
Chris
Okay. Can you unpack that a little bit? And given the examples of private ordering 100 years ago.
00;36;50;01 - 00;37;10;25
Aaron
Yeah, I mean, 100 years ago, it's just like, you know, it's why one of the strongest rights that we have is just the right to contract with one another. And so lots of things were just handled either contractually or just bilaterally between folks about a third party, let's say, the government interceding or a law from the government like a public law preventing that from happening.
00;37;10;27 - 00;37;31;29
Aaron
And really, you know, since the Great Depression, we've leaned increasingly on public law solutions to shape and interfere with private affairs and private ordering. And I think that jury's out on whether or not that worked better than kind of having a a more open and permissive system.
00;37;31;29 - 00;38;08;13
Chris
Okay. And so we we swung into this public sphere basically over like, I don't know, 70 years of litigation around rights, right? Like this initially started out as like a good and proper reordering of relationships around like civil rights, for instance. But then as I kept getting further and further extended and conflicts between rights became something for the courts to like, resolve, we get to this point where we are today.
00;38;08;16 - 00;38;29;11
Aaron
I think a little bit. Yeah. Or, you know, the government is just it's much larger now, just a raw number of people that work for it, the number of agencies and it was 100 years ago. Right. Or I guess maybe 125 years ago. And there's definitely good things about that. But, I think that that pendulum is kind of swung back and there's been attempts like in the 80s, right.
00;38;29;11 - 00;39;02;16
Aaron
And Reagan to pare that back. But it it's never it's never really gone and swung back to where it was for well over, you know, 100 years in the US. So we can kind of had we've had more time with like a more quote unquote, like YOLO approach to how we do things less government interference, much more private ordering than we have had under these more bureaucratic systems, which have really been the hallmarks of US society since, I guess, 1930s, Great Depression era.
00;39;02;19 - 00;39;32;26
Chris
Yeah. And how do you stop something like that? How does common sense get executed where, you know, when we're talking about like, basic civil rights, everyone should be able to use the same public facilities that that's one stretch of things. An entirely different realm is whether I can put a fourth floor on my McMansion that blocks the view of the ocean of my neighbor, right?
00;39;32;29 - 00;39;48;25
Chris
So that is one like stop. It's kind of like in a way very similar to this blockchain permissionless tragedy commons issue, like the courts should be available to everyone, but then it creates this scope creep that circles back in ways down on all of us.
00;39;48;27 - 00;40;13;15
Aaron
Yeah, completely. You know, I and I just looked it up on oh three, which is great, by the way. It said, I think that this is right, between 1870 and 1937 was probably the peak. So it wasn't really the civil rights that, that turn that around. It was really just the Great Depression. I think people realize that, you know, that was such an acute event that the government needed to intercede to reshape markets.
00;40;13;20 - 00;40;47;05
Aaron
They need to set up more organs to kind of keep, you know, our animal spirits and all these impulses and check. And then that just led to more and more of that from the nine, you know, late 1930s to I feels like today. So I think we're going back towards more private order. And Chris and that's really, I think what the Supreme Court has been doing with like, you know, like they were striking down a whole bunch of laws and I think it's to get back to something a little bit closer to where we were before the 1930s.
00;40;47;07 - 00;41;06;07
Pri
Do you think part of it is also just like the desire to have, you know, people want more activism, activism? They did one. I don't know. I don't know if I think that this any more. But at one point, maybe it was after the Great Depression. People wanted to see more activism from their institutions as a response from like kind of whatever, freewheeling.
00;41;06;07 - 00;41;34;08
Pri
And so that's when you kind of got more activism across, whether it be social or whatever. It's like you did activism across court, the notion of nudging. So even in a private, you know, even in private structures, in order to get like whatever social outcome that you want, you can incentivize through, you know, taxes, you can incentivize through, you know, other kind of whatever government, you know, incentives in order to get a specific social outcome.
00;41;34;08 - 00;41;42;21
Pri
Like maybe there was a desire, you know, at one point to have that. And I think people it just went too far. It was like, gone on for too long.
00;41;42;24 - 00;42;09;02
Aaron
I don't know if it's activism. I mean, because the period before the 1930s had tons of active activism, right? From the women's rights movement to the abolitionist movement. Right. So I don't I don't know if it was activism that that it's really response to. I really think it's just markets. Right? It's like when markets get too wild, there's an impulse to kind of tamp that down that led to agency as an agency just kind of create, you know, like they're it's all well-intentioned.
00;42;09;04 - 00;42;37;08
Aaron
It's easy to control what like laws. It's easy to kind of, you know, go on a power trip that's kind of what happens in the end. And then you've got this like Kafkaesque system that tells freedoms, and that's potentially problematic. And I think during that period, people just knew, you know, sometimes bad things would happen, right? Like there was all these bucket shops that would have things that look like crypto, you know, crypto rug pulls.
00;42;37;10 - 00;43;01;12
Aaron
And that led to rules to try to, you know, clean up the commodities markets. And that was like running through the Midwest, right? There was snake oil salesmen. There's all these characters in like, American history that I think exists because of this period and the lack of government oversight. But at the same time, you know, you gain more agency to not be bothered in your day to day life.
00;43;01;14 - 00;43;17;12
Aaron
And I wonder, though, Christa's point is back to your getting annoyed during vacation like that. Does that kind of impinge your ability to move around the world, right, when you're getting constantly like, like pinged and prodded by all these electronic systems?
00;43;17;14 - 00;43;31;11
Chris
Yeah. I don't know how more private ordering solves that. Right. I think that I, I'm don't really think I want to ask the government for,
00;43;31;13 - 00;43;33;03
Aaron
A it's a great I think I got.
00;43;33;09 - 00;43;37;23
Chris
Stuck with the notifications. Right. But what happened to me there.
00;43;37;26 - 00;44;01;08
Aaron
Yeah, but what happens if now we're in ten years from now. Right. Like we've we've kind of likely passed like an AI singularity. And you have an agent where you can put all your preferences and then it negotiates with an agent from the RBA, or I never know how to pronounce that robo. And it that agent now knows don't increase on vacation.
00;44;01;11 - 00;44;03;18
Aaron
Then you'd be completely fine with that right?
00;44;03;20 - 00;44;30;25
Chris
Yes, I've. I'll be fine until my agent expresses some some form of autonomy that doesn't jive with me. Then I have to go scold my agent. Or what if my agent decides it has rights too? And it it, my agent decides to take me to court over my lack of attentiveness to its inputs on managing the myriad number of notifications it's dealing with.
00;44;30;27 - 00;44;35;22
Chris
And that's like total crazy talk, right? You know, just spitballing, but I actually.
00;44;35;22 - 00;44;40;05
Aaron
Don't think that's crazy at all. Chris. I think that that's probably what the future looks more like.
00;44;40;08 - 00;44;40;22
Pri
I'm cool.
00;44;41;15 - 00;44;45;26
Chris
Lord of mercy, I'm going to become a monk and leave the situation.
00;44;45;28 - 00;44;49;03
Pri
Just short a network state. Dude, that's what's happening.
00;44;49;06 - 00;44;59;25
Chris
I don't want to join a network state. Why would I want to join, like, a bunch of hyper active people who want to, like, build their own utopian poets? I mean, you know, like.
00;44;59;28 - 00;45;10;04
Pri
Dude, speaking of, did you see, like, the times covered like the state C setting Institute? I'm telling you, there's something in there with network states right now.
00;45;10;07 - 00;45;30;09
Aaron
I think it's people want people want that exit. Right. And I also I think it's a it's a perplexing question, which is they see that there's issues with consensus based governance and there's not a solution on how to fix it. And I think that, you know, some people think the solution is to go back to like a strong man, right?
00;45;30;11 - 00;45;36;27
Aaron
But really, like they're battling the wrong beast, right? The beast is how how you battle these algorithms.
00;45;36;29 - 00;46;08;25
Chris
So one of the most controversial opinions that I hold is we've actually our systems have grown so complex that they've exceeded our ability to actively manage them. And we need to let them behave like natural systems, like we can't govern these things anymore. We can't govern Facebook, we can't govern the economy, we can't govern you name it. Like these things are too big and they have to function like the weather.
00;46;08;28 - 00;46;32;06
Aaron
But that then that would be in favor of a more private order increase, right? Like that. Is that like you're just letting some sort of bilateral relationship emerge between that, just like how a relationship emerges between like plants and water, right? Or, you know, humans and food sources. There's nothing dictating that. It just kind of organically develops.
00;46;32;08 - 00;46;46;06
Chris
Right? Like a a leaf on a tree doesn't say, can I have permission? You know, to, grow and block the light of whatever's below me, you know, like that. That shit doesn't happen.
00;46;46;08 - 00;47;02;18
Aaron
Yeah. And like, from that, I think you you develop, like, kind of a natural, like, stasis. I wasn't, I mean, none of us were obviously around in the 1870s, but I feel like maybe a piece of that was there where there was, like, some sort of natural stability there.
00;47;02;20 - 00;47;36;23
Chris
Yeah. Now, back then, they had places beyond the reach. They had outlets for all of this, you know, like if you were sick of, like, duking it out in Philadelphia, New York, Boston squalor, you know, you just hoofed it out West and started to get we've tabled and labeled and conquered the entire map. And I think that that's one of the unique challenges to our time is, you know, unless we're shooting people into outer space, right.
00;47;36;29 - 00;47;38;22
Chris
We've lost those outlets.
00;47;38;24 - 00;47;52;15
Aaron
All right. You know what else I've been thinking a lot about? I'm going to throw up, throw it out, which is really AGI. Now rogue AGI. Everybody's thinking about AGI being all positive. So I've been thinking about it. What happens when it's like kind of evil. Like what do we do with that shit?
00;47;52;22 - 00;48;04;21
Pri
I actually wrote an article to that. ChatGPT spends tens of millions of dollars on people saying, please and thank you, just like for compute. It's like literally costing them tens of millions. But Sam says it's worth it.
00;48;04;27 - 00;48;10;18
Aaron
I mean, I think it probably is, but at some point there's going to be like a bad AGI that comes at like, what do we do then?
00;48;10;20 - 00;48;34;24
Chris
Why are we going to get a bad AGI just because we get evil? Everything's or was has. Humans are the only thing that are inherently evil and these are just like really representations of us. Therefore it's inevitable that we're going to have bad AGI. But if something's truly AGI, shouldn't it be, you know, beyond these notions?
00;48;34;26 - 00;48;57;17
Aaron
Yeah, but I don't think there's any guarantee that that's going to be the case. I was thinking about, you know, like AGI and then I was thinking about there was this thing called The Way in the future, which was the first known religious organization dedicated to worshiping artificial intelligence. And I just feel like we are going to get like a new religion of some sort, probably around like I maybe around longevity, maybe around even like a crypto religion of some sort.
00;48;57;21 - 00;49;09;26
Aaron
And then I was thinking, well, there's probably going to be like the devil, right? Like a rogue AGI that's like the enemy. And then there'll probably be worship of that too. So that's that's a threat line, guys.
00;49;09;28 - 00;49;45;17
Chris
Oh, yeah. I mean, we get that everything's and so, you know, I'm not going to be surprised when we get rogue AGI at the same time. And I don't have a great understanding of what AGI actually is. But if we're really getting true AGI right, it should be somewhat immoral. And then I guess maybe you can get into that line of thinking where if a thing has no morality and, you know, doesn't know it's being evil, but look, hacker groups are a some of them are nation states.
00;49;45;20 - 00;49;52;07
Chris
Hello, North Korea, welcome to the show. But yes, like someone will develop this because it's in their interest to.
00;49;52;09 - 00;50;11;25
Aaron
Write like there will be some chaotic system that that will emerge. I just feel like that's going to happen. I feel like, we should get a little bit more thought to that. The algorithms and rogue AGI. I'm raising the, you know, the flare gun. I'm shooting a flare gun for both of those. Let's spend some time thinking about that.
00;50;11;27 - 00;50;33;29
Chris
I'm hoping if by the time we get to that point, we've we've worked out all the the magic and the wonders of, quantum mechanics and superposition and I am, putting my consciousness in a multiverse where none of these things actually occur. I'm going to go domain shopping in the multiverses and and find one that doesn't have rogue AGI.
00;50;34;01 - 00;50;38;28
Aaron
Honestly? Yeah. Sounds good. Let me know when you figure that out, Chris, because I'll join you on that.
00;50;39;00 - 00;50;54;14
Chris
Yeah. See, I ain't going to figure that one out. I'm going to have to rely on, you know, the future to sort that one through. But when it does, you're right. And, yes, you're man, is it Brian Johnson? Who's the guy who wants to live forever?
00;50;54;16 - 00;50;55;26
Pri
Brian Johnson.
00;50;55;28 - 00;50;57;15
Chris
Yeah, he's right now he's heading to the.
00;50;57;15 - 00;50;59;24
Pri
Like, oh, that's a heads. Aaron's man.
00;50;59;27 - 00;51;01;24
Aaron
He's definitely not my man.
00;51;01;26 - 00;51;19;21
Chris
No no no. All right. So your man is one of these great expressions where like, I've got a bunch of, like, Irish and, English friends in my neighborhood who just use your man there, and it would it, like, threw me for a loop for a couple of years because sometimes, like, your man is literally your man, right?
00;51;19;21 - 00;51;37;08
Chris
Like, oh, I saw your man the other day, you know? And I was like, oh, yeah. You know, and like three sentences later, I go, yeah, John's doing really good. And you're like, oh, that that man. And then sometimes it's like, oh yeah, you're you're man. They're hell of a home run last night. You're like, oh Franklin door.
00;51;37;08 - 00;51;54;19
Chris
Yes. He's my man. And then sometimes he's like, here man, right. But then sometimes he's like, you know, like your man. And it turns out it's like Moammar Gadhafi and it's like, how the fuck broad is like the term you're man. You know, it took me a while to get my head around like, anyone could be your man.
00;51;54;22 - 00;51;55;19
Chris
Well, no.
00;51;55;21 - 00;51;56;10
Pri
Errands, man.
00;51;56;10 - 00;52;01;24
Chris
Brian Johnson is not Aaron's man, but he's he's the royal. Your man.
00;52;01;27 - 00;52;02;27
Aaron
Agreed.
00;52;02;29 - 00;52;31;13
Chris
Anyway, to bring this back around when I'm riding the coattails of trees, man. Brian Johnson and living to 150 and some someone three generations from now who hasn't been born yet sorts out quantum domain shopping. Yes, I'm hopping in a multiverse in which there are no rogue egos. Until then, I just have to grin and bear the, the algorithmic intrusions and the degenerates of the world.
00;52;31;19 - 00;52;40;25
Aaron
It all comes back to Uniswap algorithm, right? Like we have to suffer with crypto degeneracy degeneracy because of Uniswap algorithm.
00;52;40;27 - 00;52;47;02
Chris
Ted Kozinski saw this as like the only thing he got right. You can't opt out of technology.
00;52;47;04 - 00;52;51;18
Aaron
But I think we can shape it and that's what we should. We should start doing a bit more of.
00;52;51;20 - 00;52;57;18
Pri
That's a great note, of positivity from this. Yeah. We get
00;52;57;21 - 00;52;59;03
Chris
Welcome to Net society.
00;52;59;08 - 00;53;20;06
Pri
Welcome to net society where we discuss digital art trends, crypto AI and more ideally more with the positive bent. But, yeah, it's, Chris, Aaron and me today. And just as a friendly reminder, these opinions are our own and not of our employer.
00;53;20;09 - 00;53;32;10
Chris
If we learned one thing from the show today, it's that Derek is the moderating force of positivity on the show. And when he's not here, understood how in collapse can we.
00;53;32;10 - 00;53;36;08
Aaron
Can we get it all out? Can I can I add another one that I've been thinking about?
00;53;36;10 - 00;53;40;19
Chris
Airing of grievances. Let's go. Frank, your man, Frank Costanza.
00;53;40;21 - 00;53;56;05
Aaron
All right. So did anybody catch that? There's a risk that Trump may default on US debt. Like, I think Joe Weisenthal mentioned this at some point. And if that happens, I think it's going to be disastrous for stablecoins.
00;53;56;08 - 00;54;06;15
Chris
Well, yeah, that would be bad for stablecoins. However, you know, if he does default on US debt, maybe stablecoins are the least of our concerns.
00;54;06;17 - 00;54;14;01
Aaron
True. I think there'll be lots of concerns, but that is one concern that I think would be there, as well. So.
00;54;14;03 - 00;54;16;15
Chris
Well, thanks for putting that in my worry field.
00;54;16;27 - 00;54;21;06
Pri
Great. Let me go. Like just. Yeah. Yeah. Let's. Yeah. What?
00;54;21;13 - 00;54;24;13
Aaron
All right. On the plus side though, also.
00;54;24;15 - 00;54;28;07
Chris
Yeah. What is the fourth thing in the US that give us a silver lining, chief?
00;54;28;09 - 00;54;45;03
Aaron
Well, I think it's good for. I think it's good for Bitcoin in a weird way. Bad for it is good for Bitcoin. And I thought it was interesting. There was Abbott's like captured just because I mentioned Joe wasn't a pretty good show. And they were they were saying that they were talking to some macro money manager.
00;54;45;03 - 00;55;02;25
Aaron
I forgot his name. But he was indicating that folks are beginning to actually look at Bitcoin as like a non correlated asset, which I, that I thought was is pretty fascinating. So maybe that's what's happening Chris congrats Bitcoin.
00;55;02;28 - 00;55;06;02
Chris
You're finally going to achieve non correlation.
00;55;06;04 - 00;55;26;02
Pri
Finally get our day in the sun. Maybe that's actually how we get this away from our man. Is is just we destroy the US dollar and financial system. And then that's where we fight back to RWA. Man that would actually fit the whole fourth turning thesis, I add.
00;55;26;05 - 00;55;27;12
Aaron
Oh, man.
00;55;27;14 - 00;55;38;18
Chris
Wow. The undoing of way man through complete economic collapse. You know what? Let me go. Just start minting. Shit. I'm reviewing Zora right now to stave that off.
00;55;38;25 - 00;55;40;23
Pri
Rodeo takes us dollar now.
00;55;40;25 - 00;55;44;16
Chris
Oh, well, now I can even, like fine.
00;55;44;18 - 00;55;47;04
Pri
Oh, well, on that note, should we wrap up?
00;55;47;07 - 00;55;52;12
Chris
Yeah, I don't know, like, we should keep driving this train right off the rails. Gang.
00;55;53;27 - 00;55;58;21
Chris
No. Why don't we, why don't we close our order books there?
00;55;58;24 - 00;55;59;18
Pri
Cool.
00;55;59;21 - 00;56;01;21
Chris
Declare default on that society.
00;56;01;25 - 00;56;11;22
Pri
Yeah, that's a present day. And declare default. Pleasant day. I was actually, ready to go have a drink, go get dinner. But the ship.
00;56;11;24 - 00;56;15;23
Aaron
You just sit in a corner and rock. Just sit in a corner. Rock. Pray it's.
00;56;15;25 - 00;56;24;27
Pri
Yes. Not a rock. I feel like just dig into some Russian Revolution stuff again. I been kind of in that phase right now. Oof.
00;56;25;00 - 00;56;31;14
Chris
I don't know. I think you should go sit in the corner and just be like, the fourth turning of crypto is here, and I'm not prepared.
00;56;31;17 - 00;56;33;13
Pri
I'm prepared. Don't worry.
00;56;33;15 - 00;56;34;14
Chris
I'm not. No, like I'm.
00;56;34;15 - 00;56;40;17
Pri
Only like 100% allocated to crypto, which is horribly, horribly planned.
00;56;40;17 - 00;56;42;01
Aaron
But whatever.
00;56;42;03 - 00;56;43;20
Chris
On that note on that.
00;56;43;21 - 00;56;44;28
Aaron
Clip, guess.
00;56;45;00 - 00;56;46;12
Pri
Because.
00;56;46;14 - 00;56;53;20
Aaron
Yeah.
00;56;53;22 - 00;57;05;05
Aaron
You.