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You’re tired.
Not just physically; though yeah, that too.
You’re tired in your bones. In your soul.
Trying to be a steady husband, an intentional dad, a man of God… but deep down, you feel like you’re falling short. Like you’re carrying more than you know how to hold.
Dad Tired is a podcast for men who are ready to stop pretending and start healing.
Not with self-help tips or religious platitudes, but by anchoring their lives in something (and Someone) stronger.
Hosted by Jerrad Lopes, a husband, dad of four, and fellow struggler, this show is a weekly invitation to find rest for your soul, clarity for your calling, and the courage to lead your family well.
Through honest stories, biblical truth, and deep conversations you’ll be reminded:
You’re not alone. You’re not too far gone. And the man you want to be is only found in Jesus.
This isn’t about trying harder.
It’s about coming home.
One Peter three seven was such a convicting passage for me because it says, look, cherish your wife. Care for her. Be treat her in an understanding way so that your prayers are not hindered. And this is like the only passage in the Bible that gives you this formula that says, no, you could be praying all night in your closet.
And guess what? It's hitting the ceiling. Because I'm watching how you're treating your wife, and if you're not cherishing her, treating her in an understanding way, then guess what? Your prayers aren't reaching me. I mean, this is a shocking thing to wrestle with and I know for me it was, I was like, man, there's a lot of prayers I've been praying that I'm not seeing answers to.
I need to be treating my wife better. I. Hey guys. Welcome back to the Dad Tired podcast, where we believe that strong families begin with healed man. Today's episode is going to help you become a more healed and whole man for your family and for you, so you can sleep better at night. I'm excited to get into that.
Before we do, I just wanna say upfront, I think that this episode is. Best experienced on YouTube. We have almost 500 episodes that we have produced over nearly 10 years, and I've always kind of been focused on audio, but I've most recently been trying to take video seriously. And so I'm putting all of these interviews on YouTube for video form and uh, there's just so much happening kind of as you're watching the interview that you would not catch if you're just listening to the audio version.
The little smirks, the chuckles, the faces, even the tears. And so if you want to catch the full experience of the interview or any of these episodes, go to YouTube Also, um, I get a lot of emails and comments on, uh, you know, people trying to send me comments on social media, but I don't have social media.
And you might be sending me something on our private network. There's, there's lots of ways that people are trying to get ahold of me. I've made a commitment in order to try to get you engaged on YouTube to answer every comment on YouTube. So if you have a thought on this, a question on this, or you just wanna say what's up?
Go to YouTube, subscribe to our dad Tire channel and leave a comment on this video and I will respond to it over there. It's the only place that I will respond for. Now, I'm not trying to be like a jerk or weird about that. I just, uh, I, I'm trying to get more people engaged over there. 'cause again, I think you're gonna have a much better experience.
Overall on YouTube by watching this interview in video form, so make sure you go over there to do that. Before we jump in, I do wanna thank my friends over at Classical Conversations for sponsoring today's episode. I remember the very first time vividly, I walked into a classical conversations community and I heard these kids saying information that I literally did not know, and they were five-year-olds.
I'm like, how the heck do these kids know this stuff? It is amazing. Classical conversations doesn't just teach your kids what to think. They teach your kids how to think. They help you raise critical thinkers, which we need in today's society. You can find one of their communities so that you can partner alongside of them and help you raise disciples who love Jesus and know how to think.
Go to classical conversations.com/dad Tired podcast. Again, that's classical conversations.com/dad Tired podcast. That being said, let's dive into today's episode. Gabe, so excited to have you here today, man. Thanks for taking the time out to spend some time with us. Uh, for the audience who may not be familiar, tell us who you are and, uh, what you're up to these days, man.
Yeah, I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Uh, yeah, so my journey has been one of married for 28 years, four children, uh, two with special needs. Uh, one was our first born K he's 24 now with Down syndrome. And then we adopted a little girl that's 11 that also has Down Syndrome. So. So our life's a little bit of, of, uh, looking to a future where we're, we call it full nesting.
You know, we're not gonna move into a season where we don't have a couple of people that we're caring for. Um, and so for our marriage, we've had to work out what those rhythms look like, but. My life has been a lot of trying to pursue, um, kingdom purpose through work and the, the mission of the work I do called Think, T-H-I-N-Q.
So think media.com. You know, we do a lot of gatherings, conferences, retreats, trying to pour into leaders who are Christians, but they're always trying to navigate the question of how does my faith apply to this cultural moment, to this industry, to the conversations I'm having with my colleagues, the people I'm leading, uh, and then also Rebecca and I.
Do a lot of retreats for couples and spend a lot of time in the emotional health and relational health, physical health space, uh, to help people really navigate how to live a full life and a flourishing life as a couple, as friends, as families. So that's a little bit of, you know, our world. Yeah, dude, you're a busy guy.
Uh, it sounds like I need to sign up for one of those retreats with my wife. That sounds, that sounds amazing. Um, how did you. Get into like, I, I know you just put a marriage book out, but like, how do you navigate all that stuff? I'm sure you've hit some, I mean, even in your title and in the, in the, like the description of the book, you're talking about overcoming some stuff in marriage, like Yeah.
You hear 28 years and you're like, dang man, this guy, he's doing a lot, he is busy, successful, but like. What kind of stuff have you had to overcome in your marriage? Well, I've, as Rebecca and I look back at our marriage and try to tell that story as honestly and vulnerably as we can. 'cause we, we just know the more we can just be free with the story of healing God's brought in our life.
Hopefully that helps more people understand both how normal it is to find themselves in a place where they feel out of their depths and don't know what to do and feel lost and feel like. Healing's not possible. Mm-hmm. But, but also to then point people to the healer, you know, Jesus, who I think through marriage, has given us this incredible opportunity to be healed through the person he's put us with.
And, and he loves us through that person. And we get to love our spouse in a way that. Lets them experience God's love for them. And that's one of the beau beautiful things about marriage. But for Rebecca and I, you know, there's been some key moments in our life where we've had to experience either trauma, you know, uh, like our first born three years in with Down syndrome.
Like that was a big shocker. Three years into marriage, you know, life was good up until the right. Nothing really that bad had happened in our either one of our lives. So this was like this moment, you know, where are we gonna turn towards each other? Or are we gonna turn away from each other? Yeah. And interestingly with the data parents, with a child with Down syndrome, the divorce rate is higher in year one.
So, so many couples divorce after that traumatic moment, that news of a new thing, they weren't expecting, they don't know how to navigate it. It's gonna require so much more of them emotionally than maybe they knew they, they could give. And so they run, um, and escape, try to escape that situation. But if you make it through year one.
The likelihood of the marriage staying together goes way higher than most couples with special needs children. Um, because it's that year one where you're gonna be tested and you're gonna make a decision. Are we gonna do this together and embrace this new reality for us as a couple, you know? Or are we gonna try to keep individualizing our life and make it about.
My experience and yeah. So Rebecca and I have had some key moments, uh, that have marked our journey where we've had opportunity to turn away and we turn towards, we've kinda got four big moments that have happened like that in our marriage. And that was one of the first, and that, that to me has been the pattern for us over 28 years to say, Hey, we're still fighting for each other.
Um, and it's, it's been intentional. It's been something that we've had to. Prioritize and decide this is the way we ought to live with one another. Mm. I want to hear if you don't mind, the, the other three that you Yeah. That you mentioned. But, um, I actually just read a similar study, um, with, I, I can't remember exactly what it was.
It might have been like couples who experienced some kind of infidelity and the, the spouse saying, I'm, I'm out. Like I'm gonna, I can't do this anymore. I'm out. Um, which makes sense. Um, but. They were saying. The lie that you believe in that is essentially, I can't do this with you anymore. You've hurt me too bad.
I'm going to leave and I'm gonna be happier if I leave you. Yeah. And again, I know this is a really nuanced topic, so I'm, I'm not trying to make any blanket statements here, but they did find through the study that the ones who stuck it out and were faithful and worked on healing were actually happier than the ones who ended up getting divorced and trying to find happiness somewhere else.
And I think it just, that makes sense. It points to the same concept that you're getting at. It's like, if we can actually. Work through this hard thing together, um, that will find greater depths of intimacy than most people find who never experience this kind of pain. No, that's so true. And I think that data, uh, we've seen that bear out in so many couples that we've worked with, um, in counseling or retreats, is that.
When you start to understand the reason that you went to that coping mechanism, or that addiction or that escape is tied to a deeper wound that ultimately needs healed, then we're starting from a foundation where we can go, okay, if I love this person, if I'm committed to this person. You know, can I stay in, can I, can I be part of that journey?
And sometimes that requires separation or requires time away from each other, you know, while that work's being done. But I, but I think for, from a Christian perspective, what God wants is for us to. To invite him into that situation. 'cause in our own humanity, we, we probably can't fight for our marriage the way that it needs fought for, right?
In certain moments. But when we have that bigger vision that God wants covenant to remain, God wants healing to take place, sin is in the picture, the enemy's going to constantly be tempting us away from that union and away from that deeper connection where life is found and freedom is found when we can understand the truth of all of that.
Then maybe God gives us the capacity to say, I'm gonna fight for this. And um, and I do think that God uses our spouse to be a part of that healing. When we created an environment where we can be very honest about what our origin story is, how that has impacted the way we view life, relationship, what matters to us, the things we're drawn towards that, that take us away from each other.
And so many couples, if they could have the freedom to talk about those things mm-hmm. If they could just have, uh, the grace with one another to hear some hard things, some difficult things, um, some traumatic things and sit with that and instead of react or instead of be defensive or instead of make it about themself, actually turn towards that person and, and say, I want to invite God into, I don't know how to help you have the healing that you need because of that experience.
I wasn't there. I don't know how that felt, but I want God to use me to be a part of that process. Yeah. Um, I mean, that is the most healing thing that can happen in a marriage. Uh, because what we don't know, you know, these moments happen, you know, for 28 years. It, it's one spouse or the other. I mean, it's, it's not always just like this one spouse has a problem.
It's, it's like, no, there's, there's, there's something going on with the two of you. And the, the more that we can. Own our part in it, instead of blame our spouse, the better opportunity we're gonna have to, to experience the depth and the healing that God wants for us. I think what's tough about that is it it requires a perspective change in order for you to look at your spouse and say, my primary goal for this relationship is to help you know, and love and experience Jesus and I, and I see myself as a tool or a helpmate.
To help you experience that fullness in Christ versus you are responsible to make me happy. Yeah. And what you're telling me right now is not making me happy. That's right. Uh, it doesn't make me feel good. And so, I mean, yeah. And we all gravitate towards selfishness. I mean, that's like, I want, I want you to make me feel however I want you to make me feel.
Yeah. And so it really was a, a massive perspective shift to look at my wife and say, regardless of what you tell me. I want to be used by God to help you become more like him, to find healing, to find mercy, to find grace. Yeah. Regardless of how this makes me feel. Like mean, that's leadership, right? I mean that's, that's leadership.
That's, that's following a biblical model that says, Hey, I'm gonna submit to the Lord first. Um, I know one of our mentors, a guy named Emerson Ridge, he talks about this. Mm-hmm. He wrote a book called Love and Respect. But you know, he always uses this illustration. Like, when I look to Rebecca, uh, you know, when I'm loving Rebecca, I almost have to see through Rebecca to seeing Jesus on the other side of her, behind her.
You know, it's like, I'm loving you because I'm loving Jesus through you. And that might not sound very sexy or fun or natural. Mm-hmm. Um, but, but what it is, is it's actually the reality of how God wants us to love one another. And that is a mature view. I mean, I'm, most of us don't always carry the capacity to respond and react in that way.
So I think we should just acknowledge that. Like, no, that's not easy. Yeah. This is otherworldly, this is counter-cultural. Yeah. This is gonna require so much more depth from me as a human being. Then maybe somebody listening right now, they're like, I don't have that depth. I don't even know where to get that depth.
Um, it, it requires in, in a sense, ha having experienced freedom and healing. Yeah. To now know that you can have something to offer to someone else. Yeah. I literally, I text my wife yesterday and the parking lot of a grocery store, I dropped the kids off, she was at work and I texted her yesterday and I said something to the effect of like, um, I'm so grateful that you are my help mate.
Because you, you really are helping me become the man that I believe God wants me to be. And without you, I'm not sure. I, I, I could be here. Yeah. You know, I believe God could use rocks and trees to do whatever he wants, but like God is, u is using you to help me become the man that, uh, that I really believe he, he's calling me to be.
And I said something and like. I imagine that being my helpmate must suck sometimes. Like I, I know that I, it's, it's been painful at times, but I'm really thankful and she said something to the effect of, um, it has been painful sometimes, but I wouldn't choose like any other life. Like, I'm so grateful that God chose me to help you.
And I was just like, you know, to get there is just, we've gone through a lot of pain in order to say those kinds of things to each other, but it, it feels so good. To, to have that kind of perspective in a marriage. Yeah. You know? Yes. No, you're right. I think the acknowledging the pain, not just glossing over it saying, Hey, this has been hard.
This is a struggle. This isn't easy for me some days. Um, that's all part of that freedom and honesty and vulnerability that allows each of us to appreciate the scars, the wounds, the way we have been impacted. But to say, Hey. Together. There's something more God has for us and He's, he's using each of us to help us get there.
Um, yeah, so I love that. Yeah. You, you said a word, you know, you said a phrase here, he loves us through this person, like, God is loving us through our spouse. I went on a, a date with my wife a couple weeks ago, and I mean, it was very sim like, we just went out to dinner. It was nothing. Spectacular. But the next day I told her, I said, I think that was the best date of my life.
And the reason was because it was the first date I've ever been on where this person that I'm sitting across knows everything about me. Literally everything about me, zero secrets. And she's sitting across the table and she loves me still. And that was it. I mean, we just had dinner, like nothing. We didn't talk about anything crazy.
Like it didn't, yeah, it didn't end anything crazy. It just, it was just a normal dinner. And yet I, it was like the. It was the, it was the greatest dinner of my life, greatest date of my life. And I, and it was because of what you like said there. He loves us through like I was getting a glimpse of God's love for me by looking at my wife across the table and feeling like this is what it's known to be fully.
I. Or this is what it's like to be fully known and fully loved, which is just, yeah. You know, I think what you're describing, well, the no secrets policy, which is part of our marriage, um, has been a big deal in that. And I think a lot of couples I've met, there's, there's something they hold back because they don't know that their spouse can handle knowing this about them.
Or it's maybe it's a secret sin or, or some coping mechanism that they're using to try to just stay in the marriage. And there's, there's two roles to play here. One, one is, one one of the spouses, whoever's the secret holder saying, I'm gonna be willing to take the risk. That's true vulnerability. Mm-hmm.
Um, transparency is sharing information, but you kind of know what the outcome's gonna be. But vulnerability is sharing information where there's a risk that someone's gonna walk away. And so taking that risk to say, I'm going to be vulnerable, is the first step. But for the spouse, hearing that information for the first time.
Recognizing that you're gonna need God's grace to like hear information secrets, thoughts that have been happening, fantasies what, whatever it might be, that to have an open marriage of honesty and, and a real vulnerability and intimacy is going to require that you hear some things that sometimes aren't what you hoped you'd hear, and they're gonna be hard and you're gonna decide you're gonna be committed.
Like, I'm gonna stay in, it might feel pretty bad today, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay in. And we're gonna try to create this, this safe place for both of us to reveal these things. And, and to your point with your date night, the freedom that you feel with one another to know that you are not withholding anything and.
This is a freedom that most people don't ever get to experience in a relationship. Um, because we, we try to cater and create an image of ourselves that oftentimes we, our own selves loathe and go, this isn't really possible. And to have your spouse there, you know, to just love you, fully love and know you, you know, Kurt Thompson, Dr.
Kurt Thompson talks about this, you know. Where he says, we all need to be seen soothed and safe. Um, our kids need that, we need that, and that's what we get to offer to our spouses. Mm. You said that that is part of your marriage, like it's a rule in your marriage. No secrets. How did you guys get to that?
That's a, like, most people don't have that conversation. Yeah. How did you get there? You know, I think years into marriage, you know, us understanding that, and, and it wasn't long into our marriage where it was like, you know, we're. Five, six years into marriage realizing like, Hey, things, things happen in our life that we either share or we don't share, you know?
Mm-hmm. Um, Rebecca tells a story where she was, you know, at a, at the gym one day and she noticed, like a trainer was noticing her and nothing happened. It was, it was probably a comment was made. But I remember her coming home and telling me that, you know, like, Hey, I felt noticed by this guy today. And I, that doesn't feel right.
Um, I kind of liked it, like, because I was being noticed and, and I remember us, this was like year five into marriage, you know, having this conversation where, of course that felt like a gut punch to me, like, why is my wife. Even caring what some other man might say. And then it was also a wake up call to go, okay, why is my wife mm-hmm.
You know, in an environment where that's happening. But, but where that could in any way there there'd be a vacuum that someone else could fill. And that created this great conversation that night. Just about how, you know, I'd been busy at work, I haven't been showing up well. I haven't been noticing, uh, in the ways I needed to notice.
And so when our wives are noticed by someone else or they're sought after or pursued, or there's some conversation that happens, you know, at a dinner party or whatever it is by some other man mm-hmm. If we can have the kind of freedom to say, Hey, I just want you to know that happened tonight. That, that, I don't think that nothing inappropriate happened, but I just want you to know I noticed something.
Mm-hmm. Um, that level of, of decision, like I'm not gonna keep a secret on that. I. Has been crucial in our marriage. And so that's why for us, our marriage is very transparent, whether it's phones and, you know, you know, we, we say in the book like, make sure your phone has access to your phone. Your, your spouse has access to your phone.
Yeah. Location. It's checking your text Instagram. And when you create a kinda world where it's like, no, this is just how we operate. Like, we don't do things apart from each other. We don't have places that are just ours. You know, we share bank accounts and. All the things, you essentially are creating a structure that allows for secrets to not be something that's possible to be kept because you don't have any isolated place where you're spending money on something that you don't want your spouse to, to see, or you're communicating with somebody that you're having to do that in, in secret.
And so we just know the enemy. You know, there's a principle here, it's, it's expose your secret. Or your secret will expose you. Yeah. And I think understanding that is motivation to go, Hey, I, if I keep this secret, this is probably gonna come out at some point. Yeah. So let's just talk about it. Yeah. And both suck, to be honest.
Like exposing your secret and having your secret expose you. Uh, I've had both happen and both suck and, um, so, but better that you expose it and, uh, you build for yourself a reputation of, I'm going to be honest, even when it's hard. Yeah. Because I love you and I want to, I want to, I want you to see all of me.
Um, I, I had this similar experience just like. A week ago where I was, um, to, to what your wife experienced and she came home and shared with you. I think it's a good, I think that what's a good example of that is it's not some big like sin that you're confessing. It doesn't always have to be that. 'cause that's probably where some A guy's mind goes.
It's like, shit, I gotta confess all these huge sins, which maybe you do, but that's not necessarily all the secrets, you know, like. I literally, just this morning, uh, I had a conversation with my wife. I tried to do something kind of flirty and fun for her. She did not respond the way I expected her to respond, mainly because she's a mom of four kids and she's busy and like doing, like she wasn't in the head space.
And so what would've happened before is I, I would've take taken that just tiny little seed of bitterness and tuck that in and probably build some kind of story on it or about it throughout the day. And so I just told her right in the moment, even though I knew it was gonna be hard and awkward and probably wasn't the best time, but just like, Hey, I, your response to what I just did here to surprise you or kind of be flirty and cute was not, uh.
You didn't respond the way I expected you to. And I just wanna say that out loud. Like, I'm not mad at you, but I just don't want this to turn into anything, so like, I'm just gonna say it. That's so good. You know? That's so great. I love that. Yeah. That's, if we could do more of that, you, you, you give the enemy no room to create these narratives in our life and in our mind that we build.
'cause like you said, you know, a moment like that can happen and then you become defensive, you withdraw. In the next 48 hours. Like there's coldness between you and your spouse, right? Mm-hmm. These things we can tend to let build, build when we don't practice. Uh, confession, honesty, vulnerability. So that, I love that.
That's such a good story. I don't, I don't think most guys, I didn't realize this, but that, that kind of moment will turn it, it's that little seed that's planted and you just had 48 hours, and I don't think guys realize that what they're doing 48 hours later or even maybe two weeks later. Is soothing that moment.
Yeah. Does that make sense? Yes, that's right. Where like, that's you're in a behavior weeks later that you know, is, is some kind of soothing mechanism and you're not tying it back to, you didn't get it out in that little moment. Right. What happened to this morning was a 32nd, we fixed it and now it's, it doesn't have the chance to grow two weeks later.
But I just, I never realized until recently, in the last six months, like those kind of moments were causing. Bad thinking or bad behaviors, days, weeks, even months later. Yes. Yeah. We nurse those hurts and give them room. In our mind the enemy loves that. And then he paints a narrative like, your spouse doesn't care about you.
They don't. Mm-hmm. They, if, if, if I were married to someone else, they would have responded differently. Like we, we come up with all these assumptions and even accusations, and that's the thing. The enemy will create an accusation. This is what he does to divide against your spouse and get you to agree with it.
And once you agree with it, now you're playing his game. And now division is going to be possible more possible and your pride's gonna build into that and it's gonna be harder to acknowledge and confess. So that's what I love about what you did in such a great little example. You quickly said, let's acknowledge what just happened.
Let me express, I'm a little hurt by that, but I also know why, and. I wanna just communicate it versus ruminate on it. And that's one of Rebecca and i's rules with each other. You know, we say, Hey, when we have a fight or a disagreement, whoever apologizes first wins. You know, because the idea here is we each can own something about.
That moment that didn't go the way we had hoped. And the quicker we just own what our part was. We've created room for healing and, and if we're not talking, we're not healing. That's another big principle in our book, is trying to create spaces for couples to have conversations around some of these.
Discussions and stories that take a little bit of intentionality aren't always easy to bring up. So if we can be that third party in the room to bring up the conversation and get you talking about some things, that's what we hope we can do because we know how much healing will be possible just by saying we're gonna create room to talk about some of the hard things.
Do you have like a structure for that, for those kind of, you know, those kind of conversations or is it just kind of. Organic. Well, I think Rebecca and I try to practice 15 minutes a day of connecting with one another daily mm-hmm. To have conversation. And, and a lot of times, you know, that's with kids around trying to create just a sacred moment mm-hmm.
Where I can hear her heart, how she's doing. Oftentimes she'll talk more in that moment than me, you know? 'cause it's about getting off of her chest, the things that she's carrying and that, that mental load that she has an emotional load with the kids or, or whatever. Um. But by having a rhythm like that built in, and if we miss that, we know it and we try to the next day, make sure we take time.
'cause there are days, whether it's travel or schedule or whatever, where it's just not happening. But to quickly continue to come back to reset to conversation. So that's, that's one practice. I'd say the second thing is. Um, we are very intentional about having alone time, you know, every week, whether that's a date, whether it's a walk, but, but at least a couple hours, sometimes more.
Where we're gonna know every week we're gonna have time to come together and connect again, and have conversation and, and just talk about not work responsibilities, not always the kids that comes up sometimes, but just time for us to just stay reconnected. And I will say we didn't start implementing that in a.
In a religious way until probably four years ago, but when we did. That has made the biggest difference in keeping connection even amidst busy lives. You know, where we do each have to travel sometimes and we have a lot of caregiving responsibilities, but knowing we can come back every week, we've got almost this Sabbath time together, has allowed us to, to know that there's margin built into the calendar.
Not just that we hope it happens or it happens when we put our head, you know, head on the pillow at night, but we actually are cultivating something consistently. Um. Hmm. That that helps us have the opportunity for deeper conversations in ways that you're not gonna have those kind of conversations just rushing from one thing to the next.
And if you try, it's likely gonna go very poorly because you need a little space for that. Yeah. Yeah, we try to do, we, we've, we've made an intention of doing like three, at least three intentional check-ins a week. That seemed realistic. We were trying to do daily. Yeah, that's good. And then that's, and I start to feel guilty.
So we, we try to do three a a week and, uh, I will, I will say I feel like we talk about everything, especially these days. I've always felt like we were good communicators, but these days it's like we, we have radical honesty with each other. Um, and still even with that, I always learned something about my wife and those check-ins that I didn't know.
Um, what's going on in her heart, you know? Yeah. Like when we actually set aside the time to do it, I'm like, oh. I didn't realize you were thinking that, dealing with that, feeling that whatever. Yeah, no, our wives carry, um, well there's a, an author Dr. Morgan cut lip, and she wrote a book on mental load and I, it was so educational for me.
We interviewed her recently on our podcast and she talks about how women carry, you know, this mental load of invisible to-dos and to-do list. Mm-hmm. That. They don't always have a way to tell you to take care of it. 'cause it's just things that are ruminating in their mind. And then they, they also have this emotional burden they carry many times with our children.
Mm-hmm. And I know that's true for Rebecca. There'll be 3:00 AM in the morning. She's, she's awake. She's really feeling the burden about one of our children and a decision they're making or something that, that she just feels burden that we need to pray for. I gotta be honest, at 3:00 AM I'm just wanting to sleep.
I am not feeling that I'm not carrying the same load because I think God's wired women. They, they can't not care about. Mm-hmm. Every person that's in their life. And for men, sometimes we're like, we don't get it because it's not necessarily how we're wired. We're, we're gonna protect, we're gonna provide.
But this is the beauty of the tension in marriage is, is when we can show up for our wives as well to say, Hey, I want to carry some of that load, like, unload on me. Um, Emerson calls it the ocean of emotion that that builds up in women and they need to, to release that. And it feels like a balloon that. It gets popped, like there's all this pressure.
And that's what we feel and experience from our wives sometimes is, man, they're overwhelmed. They're feeling stressed. Like the little things seem to be bigger than they should be. And we're like, why are you acting like that? And it, and it's really that all this pressure's built up and the pressure valve to release it, to just let it all out is, is these few minutes a day.
Every, you know, three times a week where we go, Hey, there's space and time where I want to just hear all that. I want you to be able to roll that onto me as your husband, as kind of the strong pillar that you can just lean against and, and know that your worries and concerns and cares are gonna be held by not just you and God, but your husband's gonna be aware of those.
That takes practice. I don't think that's natural for a lot of guys. I think it's a skill you build and. You start to do that enough, you realize, oh wait, this is what marriage, this is what it looks like for you to cherish your wife as the weaker vessel. It's, it's not that she's not as smart as you. I mean, I know my wife's way smarter than I am.
Mm-hmm. More strategic. Like she's, there's so many more gifts. But you know, the first Peter three seven was such a convicting passage for me because. It says, look, cherish your wife, um, care for her. Be, treat her in an understanding way so that your prayers are not hindered. Yeah. And this is like the only passage in the Bible that gives you this formula that says, no, you could be praying all night in your closet.
And guess what? It's hitting the ceiling. Because I'm watching how you're treating your wife, and if you're not cherishing her, treating her in an understanding way, then guess what? Your prayers aren't reaching me. I mean, this is a shocking thing to, to wrestle with. And I know for me it was, I was like, man, there's a lot of prayers I've been praying that I'm not seeing answers to.
I need to be treating my wife better. I need to be caring for her. And, and so part of caring for her are some of these practices that say, Hey, this isn't natural for me, but I know you need it. So I wanna show up. And, and through doing that, I know we'll experience a deeper connection. Hmm. Man, that was so beautifully said and such a beautiful visual.
I'm gonna. Steal that 'cause Yeah, sometimes I feel like my wife is carrying things and she looks at me and just like, how could you not be thinking this about our kids? I'm just like, I literally, yeah. Literally never crossed my mind, you know? I just feel like an idiot. Um, uh, I, I totally sidetracked it. You said, and I don't know if we have time to get into all these now, but you said, uh, there were four kind of pillar moments in your marriage.
Yeah. You mentioned one of them. Uh, maybe give us one more and then we'll tell everyone to go by the book so they can uh, they can read the other ones. Well, I think, uh, a big one for us, and this happens for a lot of couples, I think was a big decision about were we gonna move, we were in Atlanta at the time and I was feeling very compelled that we were, we should move to New York City and, mm.
And. That was a wild thing to ask of my wife. We had three young kids. Yeah. And she was not feeling that. And so, uh, there was some tension in that moment of like, well, I just feel like this is where we ought to go. I wanna lead, right? I wanna lead my wife and family, but my wife's like, I don't think this is the best decision for us right now.
That led to really a two year journey. Of saying, okay, we're not going to do that until there's peace and unity. Mm-hmm. And we're together on this. And I think that's the principle we learned during that particular moment is, is we will be together or we won't do it. Yeah. It doesn't matter if one spouse feels God's told them this.
There's not a peace and a unity with one another on these big decisions. I think some of that can be what school, you know, our children are gonna go to, whether we should buy this home or not. Move to a new location, take this job, this career. I think God's given us this, the relationship as a bit of a, a friction point to say, Hey, there's friction here.
Don't move forward. And if there's doubt, don't you know, and, and I think that's true in the. Couple relationship. Uh, I don't say that in every individual's life, if there's doubt, don't. 'cause I think there's a lot of times we have some doubt, self-doubt. You know, we should move forward. Mm-hmm. But I do think when things are gonna impact your family and your relationship or your community, these big decisions, uh, you need to be united.
And finally, two years later, there's a moment, Rebecca called me just one afternoon, she'd spent time with God that day it had been building. And she goes, Hey, it's time. I think we should do this. I feel like this is what we ought to do. And I just remember it was like, wow, the angels are singing, like we're gonna do this.
You know? And that began our journey. Six months later, we're living in New York and uh, they played a significant role in Rebecca's own life. And her work was actually this move to New York and what she experienced from a. Panic attack and anxiety, mental health, a lot of issues that God healed in her during the season.
We lived in New York and so we can see the fruit of that, but be patient, don't force your way forward on big decisions. That was the lesson we learned during that moment. I think that's such good wisdom. And I had a, I had a mentor early on in my marriage, told me like I, I think it was the same thing I was thinking about moving or job or whatever and he was just like, you know, whatever you do, don't do, don't move until you guys are completely united.
On it. And I, for, for whatever reason in my immaturity and just being young, that surprised me. I was like, no, but I feel confident. Like why would I slow down? Yeah. And uh, yeah, that is, I always say like I listen to the Holy Spirit first and my wife second. You know, like she, I mean, the Holy Spirit is clear and loud and helpful, and then my wife is like.
Also clear and loud and helpful. That's right. That's right. He uses, he uses both means, I think, to keep our attention. Well man, uh, super excited about your book. Right now I'm looking on Amazon. It's the number one new release in marriage. So you guys are doing well and it's clearly helping a lot of people to fight for us.
Overcome what divides to build a marriage that thrives. Um, grateful that you put this book out. Grateful that you spent some time with us today, and, uh, I'll give you the last words. Any, any last things you'd want to tell our listeners is they're trying to be the, the spiritual leaders of their home find their own healing so they can be the men god's called them to be.
I. Yeah, uh, it takes time and be patient with yourself. This is a journey that's a lifetime. It's not, uh, one week and you figure all these things out. So be patient with yourself. Be patient with your spouse. I know one of the most healing things I did was as I went on my own emotional health journey was being able to come back around to my children who are now at that time, teenagers, and be able to just say to them, I'm sorry for some of the ways I haven't been able to show up for you emotionally.
Because I realized from my own origin story, I never learned some of these skills, and so I'm not gonna get it perfect. But I'm, I'm, I just want you to know, I want to keep working on it. I love you. You deserve that from your father. And I just remember with my two teenagers at that time, they're so gracious as kids are, they're like, dad, you're great.
You're awesome. No, we don't feel that, you know? But over time I realized how significant that was for them to just know, hey, their dad's willing to acknowledge weakness. Mm-hmm. Vulnerability. So not just to our spouse as you're trying to lead your family, not that your kids need to see that softness, that heart, that sense that you're still learning.
You don't have it all figured out. 'cause as you know, when you were a kid, you just thought Dad had it all figured out and. We don't have it all figured out. And the sooner they can understand like there's a grace there and God's leading us, I think, uh, the healthier those experience will be for them so that when they move into marriage, they're, they're operating from just a healthier place.
We're giving them something maybe a little bit more than that we had when we were at their age. Yeah, one of my best friends is a counselor and he said, all of counseling is basically trying to get you to forgive your parents. And I'm like, oh geez. I mean that's nice, but it's also terrible to like think about the damage I'm causing my kids.
But yeah. Uh, man, I'm so grateful. Thank you Gabe, for spending some time with us. It's been really awesome and uh, I appreciate man. Congrats on the book. Hey, thank you so much.