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The On the Hill: Breaking Down DC podcast is a collection of sharing more about what’s happening in DC without the bias, ways for you to get involved with the US government, and interviews with friends, colleagues who can help pull back the proverbial curtain of Washington, DC. Katherine Getty, host of the OTH podcast, is a 10-year Washingtonian who lives and breathes politics.
Katherine Getty 0:01
Hi, and welcome to the on the Hill podcast with me your host, Katherine Getty. Each Thursday, I'll peel back the curtain of what happens in Washington, from breaking down current events without bias, to interviews with fellow political nerds, and even and maybe most importantly, ways for you to get involved with our US government. Welcome back to another episode of The on the Hill podcast with me, your host, Katherine Getty. So last week in Congress, the House passed a two year reauthorization of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act otherwise known as FISA, because in DC, we can't do anything without an acronym. So this week, I'm going to discuss a few things. One, what is FISA, the history of it, why it was created, and then end out the episode with what's happening with this reauthorization? Maybe Why have you heard about it, some recent controversies around it? And next steps. So what is the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act? And I'll say, before I get started that this is a primer, this is a, you know, quick overview of it, there is much more information. If you're curious about more, I definitely, you know, point you over to intel.gov that has some really great resources, different government websites, different think tanks that have covered, you know, overviews of them, but this is really just you hear it in the news, I want to make sure you have some context of what this bill is, what does it mean that it's, you know, reauthorized, who extended for two more years, and how does it impact you? So, what is FISA, you know, it was first enacted in 1978. And it's a key foreign intelligence authority that helps keep us citizens and allies safe in FISA really prescribes procedures for the physical and electronic surveillance, the collection of foreign intelligence information between foreign powers and agents of foreign powers, which could include American citizens and permanent residents suspected of espionage or terrorism. And so section 702 of FISA really focuses on that, that x us, but it could have people that are American citizens or like I said permanent residents, specifically, section 702 of Pfizer establishes procedures for the authorization of such surveillance, electronic surveillance, the use of pin registers and trap and trace devices physical searches business records, for the purpose of gathering foreign intelligence. It also establishes the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court FISC to oversee requests for foreign surveillance warrant warrants by federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies. The proceedings of this court of Fisk are typically secret and its decisions are rarely made public due to the sensitive nature of the intelligence involved. So what's beyond beyond what it is what's really the history of FISA. So before FISA, which was, like I said, enacted in 1978, the US government's surveillance activities were conducted under the principle of executive authority without specific legislative oversight, or you smelling a problem there. So concerns really seem to arise of the potential abuse of these powers, especially after revelations of surveillance abuses in the 1970s. So let's transport back to the 1970s. Watergate is happening. It definitely started to cause concern of can we really just trust blanket without any legislative oversight, the executive branch. So let's go back to the 70s, the Church Committee in the mid 1970s. And following the Watergate scandal, and revelations of domestic surveillance abuses by US US intelligence agencies, Congress established the Senate Select Committee to study governmental operations with respect to intelligence activities, commonly known as the Church Committee, because the chair was Senator Frank Church. The Church committee's investigations uncovered widespread abuses of intelligence agencies, including unauthorized surveillance of American citizens, and it led to calls for reform and oversight. You know, I think, I think back to history classes, and you heard about kind of the broad, you know, as more intelligence abilities started to come online, the concern that they could be used against US citizens in the name of something good. And so, this church committee really started to kind of uncover some of those pieces, not only, you know, related to domestic surveillance abuses, but kind of ex us as well. So we fast forward to 1978 and in response to the church committee's findings, NGS, Congress passed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. It aimed to regulate and oversee the government surveillance activities involving foreign powers and agents of foreign powers within the US. FISA establish those procedures for obtaining warrants from the FISC from that Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to conduct electronic surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes. And it was a framework of for the use of physical searches and pen register trap and trace devices. Since enactment in 1978. FISA has a bit has been amended several times to adapt to changing technologies and address evolving national security challenges, I think most recently, was 911. So following September 11 2001, terrorist attacks, Congress passed the US Patriot Act, which included provisions that expanded the government surveillance powers under FISA. You know, you think back to 2001. It was for those that were young or younger at the time, it was really scary time. And there was a desire, I think, by many Americans to say, gather as much intelligence as you can. So something like 911 never happens again. And these changes were aimed at enhancing the government's ability to detect and prevent terrorist activities. But it really also raise concerns about privacy and our civil civil liberties. And so I think that kind of gives a touch point of not only the history, it, you know, FISA was created because up to kind of the 1978, the US was able the executive branch was able to do a lot of this intelligence without legislative oversight. There was a church committee that kind of looked into broadly what was happening within the government operation and said, Maybe this could be led to some abuses. 1978 They passed FISA, and it really was expanded in 2001. But it's been reauthorized, you know, multiple times, but really amended, kind of because of the US Patriot Act in 2001. But that really brings us to the reason history. So I think I really first heard about FISA, I probably heard about it when I was a kid with the Patriot Act and things like that, but I didn't have an appreciation for it. But I think it came really into the zeitgeist, as of you know, 2016 and its use in relation to then, you know, presidential candidate Donald Trump, now former president, and it it shined another light, it brought another concern to the table. So we're going to talk about that recent history. And we're going to talk about right now and this reauthorization. Okay. It's passed the House, what's next? So, under the controversy, I said it before, but kind of the expansion of FISA raises concerns about privacy and civil liberties. And it's an ongoing debate. You know, it's really that balance between national security interests and civil liberty productions. And critics can argue that fire site can be used to infringe upon constitutional rights, while supporters often contend that it's essential for protecting national security. So where is that balance? I mean, I think that's, that's always going to be really tricky. But I think, you know, like I said, it was raised kind of most recently and the concern of maybe that overreach or, and, you know, is it an overreach? Is it not during that 2016 presidential presidential campaign and if you remember, Russia gate, who could forget? You know, the FBI content, obtained a FISA warrant, to surveil Carter Page, who was a former Trump campaign adviser based on suspicions that he might be acting as an agent of a foreign power and this became a source of contention. Many claim that vices process was abused for political purposes.
While others argue that the surveillance was justified based on national security, do you see the kind of same, you know, the civil liberties versus national security debate, and I think this can be used in many different contexts. I think, former, you know, President, former President Trump, presidential candidate at the time, and his allies really have often criticized the FISA process and claim that it can be used against, you know, political adversaries while that national security theme is also there. So that really leads us to where we are today. We are in the 118 Congress in 2024. And they are aiming Congress's aiming to reauthorize FISA. So the most recent reauthorization prior to this go round was in 2019. So President Trump was in office and You know, I think it was definitely a matter of concern. But I think at the time, that renewal and oversight of certain authorities it got through Congress, but you'll see it now. And maybe the timeline sometimes gets a little fuzzy. But, you know, I wonder if it got through that Congress based on, it wasn't clear at that time who had been surveilled or at what point but needless to say, we're going through the reauthorization now. And you'll see you see a lot of very conservative members, as well as President Trump having a lot of concern about FISA and having and you saw kind of that breakdown in the house. And, you know, I think concern over and overreach is always is going to be there. But you see, now, you know, President Trump really trying to say FISA shouldn't be reauthorized in its current form. And there needs to be some, you know, structural changes to it. Now, what those changes are, that's not for this episode. But you see the battle lines kind of being drawn and where the intel community is on a totally different side than maybe where some of these conservative members are. What's right, what's wrong, that's not for me to really decide for you, but it's my job to kind of give you the context. And you'll see, look, as of last week, there were still, it still wasn't clear if it was going to be able to pass the House. The House went through a structural vote or a rural vote on the floor, it failed, went back to the drawing board, and instead of a five year reauthorization of FISA, they landed on a two year, five year is a very common, you know, number four reauthorizations in Congress. And I know we've talked about reauthorizations before, but they landed on a two year, this product had been negotiated between the House and the President, with the understanding that the Senate would vote on whatever the house was able to pass, the house was able to pass something as of Friday of last week, which would have been Friday, April 11. So it will now head to the Senate to be voted upon shortly because it expires as of April 19. And then you'll see the President quickly sign it. So I've gone through a kind of a quick rundown of what FISA is the history of it. So why was it needed really in the, in the US, how has it expanded? And then give you a little bit of a recap on why may you have heard of it before but couldn't really put your finger on it. Now that was me. And its relation to not only President Trump's 2016 campaign, and the surveillance of Carter Page and then moving forward to this current reauthorization and why maybe it's getting a little bit more attention than it had in the past. You know, as always, I hope these episodes are really informative. They give you a quick overview of what you're seeing on TV without the bias. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you want to learn more about me or about the podcast, my instagram handle for my own personal web, own personal page, not web page is at Katherine Getty and the podcast handle is at on the Hill DC podcast. As always, tune in next week to another episode of On the hill.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai