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Podcast host and thriller author David Temple gives you a front-row seat to the best thriller writers in the world. If you like thriller fiction in Books, Movies, and TV Shows, you’ll love The Thriller Zone Podcast.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (00:24.846)
Attention, thriller shoppers. There are now more thrillers than ever before. Check aisle seven for specials right now. That's season seven and 200 episodes with special guest, the real book spies, Ryan Steck. and gentlemen, please welcome all the way from Detroit, Michigan. How do you better than your real voice? Ryan Steck. You liked it better than my real voice? Yeah.
I do. Okay, I'm gonna not take a- I've done a lot of interviews, but not with the chipmunks. That felt like a winner. Alright, well I was gonna go with something more, you know. That's scary, I don't do that. I'm running from that voice. Okay. Hey Ryan, welcome to the Thriller Zone, episode number 200. Yeah. Listen man, it's a lot. Three years, 200 episodes? It's a lot. It's not bad, right? No.
No, it's not. So folks, if you're wondering why Ryan stack so many people out there raising their hand going, I could have been on number 200. I would have been happy to do that. I said, well, a couple of things. It is the real book spy we're talking to. Thank you. Number one, number two, he's a prolific writer and his own right. Thank you. And he's a hell of a funny guy that I really have grown to love and admire. Listen, man, I'm, I'm,
I was honored when you called. really was. I'm stoked to be here. 200 episodes. It's 25 million page views and a thousand book reviews. I'm just kidding. But hey, listen, it's a good run, man. I've been a fan for like a few weeks now. No, I'm just kidding. I really love what you're doing. I was so psyched when you called me. I didn't realize it was already episode 200 for you.
Yeah, this is going to land October, the first week in October. So what is that, like the seventh? I was thinking back, if you'd asked me a year, two years ago, you gonna go, you gonna go 200? I'm like, nah, I don't know. Let's just see how it goes. Then two years went by. I'm like, well, geez, I went two years. I'd rather make three. And three comes up and I'm like, wow. Of course you do know what that does for Mr. Short of Tension Span Theater though, right? Yep. Means he's got to do something new in 25.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (02:51.018)
Absolutely. I'm always trying new things. Books by related, always trying new stuff. I think you have to because it's too easy to get complacent kind of board. Plus everything's evolving. Yes. I mean everything, you know, when I started the books by, I don't think there was like any thriller mystery podcasts that were, our community was really into. Really? yeah, I don't. And we've seen some come and go since then, you know,
So, I mean, you, listen, you're the voice, the voice, I like the chipmunk one better, but you are the voice of all things thriller and mystery. So yeah, I mean, I'm psyched to here. Who was your first guest three years ago? My very first guest was May Cobb. Really? May Cobb wrote a book called, can't remember what was, kind of a chick book, a bunch of girls getting together on a weekend vacation, cocktails and guns ensued. Sounds fun? Yeah, I was...
Tammy and I were up at Lake Tahoe for the weekend and I've got video, I might even drop that here, of the very first podcast. And I was like, okay, I mean, you know, know, having done that, I did radio for it. So I'm like, well, let me just dabble in this. So broke out a cell phone and a microphone and I called her up and she couldn't get on the camera, but we did an audio. And I'm like, huh. And so I've celebrated year one, she came back on the show. Year two, she came back on the show. And then year...
She will come back on the show this first this first interview. So so she so you were on the phone But were you on camera and she wasn't I was on camera. She wasn't that's so awkward for the person that's stuck on camera Being the only one like most people don't realize that it's it's really hard to be the only and you can only hear the other person I've been there. That's hard. It's it's unusual. I've here's a funny note two of my biggest shows during the three years was
Joe Kenda, I mean, he brings the heat, but he could not get on Zoom. We couldn't connect for some reason, so we did both of our shows. I'm doing this. So Joe, what do you think about so-and-so? And he's talking. Uh-huh. It's so hard, man. It's so hard. For those who watch, and I still am amazed at the volume of viewers that would sit there and watch me talk to a guy that you couldn't see.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (05:16.184)
They probably put their phone down and they just listened to you too, buddy. They probably weren't watching anymore, man. They were just listening to the whole thing. But no, that really is hard. I've been there. It's so hard. What's your favorite part of your part in this world? Real Books by Setting Aside, like you, cause you do a podcast with KJ Howe, right? Still doing that. And you pop on other.
podcast, like what's your, what's your favorite angle of all this? What do you really enjoy in the process? As my Canadian friends would say, like early on, cause it's been a long, so next year I celebrate a full, I don't even know. think the book spies is been around for a while now and I think we're turning 10 and so making a big deal out of that next year. early on, I just wanted to find a footing.
in the thriller and the mystery space and, and, you know, worked really hard. You go through this identity crisis also becoming an author because everyone only knew me as a book spy. So the goal was like, how do they get to know me? So the face behind the book spy. And so that's when everything honestly became fun. So prior to that, it just always felt like work. was a grind all the time.
I used to just get really excited about finding a great book. Cause I mean, I usually get them first, not to brag, but I usually have first look. So I, I, there's a lot of pressure in that though, Dave, cause I'm trying to figure out, it great? So I can call it great before anybody else does. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you a funny story. I hate to admit this man. So best. So my kid says this is cringe. Okay. This is cringe bro. But let me tell you, I got a little book called crawdad once.
When the first looks at it was like, no, this is not going to, this is not going to do it. I don't think it's very good past on even doing a review. And it was like the number one book for over a year. Not where the craw dad's sing. yeah. That way. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not batting a thousand like at all. No, listen, but for every craw dad, there's a hundred, like I found this little author. People are starting to actually read him now.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (07:34.38)
His name's Jack Carr. yeah, I know it's wild, but I was covering Jack before really anyone had read him. I think I was one of his very first reviews. So those moments I lived for, I could find a book that I really thought was great. And it was like, our readers are going to love this. It all started changing in 2023 when my first book came out and I'm not just a book spy anymore. So now I got to do
More stuff. I got on Twitch. I have my own podcast there called the run on. It's a joke because, know, it's like a run on sentence, but you'd be shocked how many people stumble in thinking we're talking about cardio and poise at the wrong podcast. So we call that our running joke. And I think getting to know people as me, but not a book spy has been my favorite part. I'm trying to think of the first time you and I connected and it is, you know,
Yeah. It is always fun when you get to meet your heroes. Yeah. That was fun for you. Right. I would do that, but I typed all morning and I got carpal tunnel. There's not a chance I'm making that art symbol right now. For those who don't know, I was doing the heart symbol. All right. I want to make sure that I stay on point so that I, because the one thing about Ryan and I have learned Ryan and I had become really
pretty good friends. consider Ryan a very close friend and we can literally talk forever. That's true. There are a few people that I can sit down with on a microphone and this isn't taking anything away from anybody but you can literally, you, Lee Goldberg, DJ Williams who I've just recently made friends with, just there's a couple of you. Friend of mine too, for sure. Jack Stewart, we both know very well. He's a good friend. You can just talk.
about anything forever, and I love that. I love, as anybody knows this show, love the art of conversation. Jack Stewart would tell you every phone call between me and him starts with, hey, I just need like five minutes. And then three hours later, one of us finally has to go. That's every call. I like that because it reminds me of when I first met my wife Tammy. when we met, I'm not gonna go into the whole story. I'll give you a brief thing, and that is,
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (09:49.422)
when we first connected on the phone, I'd say, Tammy, have you got like five minutes? And it would literally be three and a half, four hours later. And that's when you know you've made a connection. I can give you a funny story of meeting my wife. Bring it. I don't think I've ever told it. yes. So my wife, Melissa, we're married 15 years, very happily. I seriously married way above my weight class. She's a rock star. We have six kids. does all, like everything. Everyone always says to me,
You run the books by your writing books. You're doing all this. How do you do all that? And I honestly thought for a while I did have the hard job. And then she had a bunch of medical issues at the end of last year. And I found out absolutely I do not. I have easy job, build up to my office and just books. She has the hard job. My kid, there's so many things going on with all of our kids and like our family. She runs it all amazing, perfectly. But the first time I met her, we both worked at a hospital here and I
I only talked to her a couple of times and she was walking through the cafeteria and I said, Hey Melissa, and she thought I was someone else that had just given her a hard time. And so she stopped in front of everybody in the cafeteria and pointed at me and said, Hey, I wouldn't mess with me today. And I was like, not gonna mess with you again. Like, my gosh. Like I was so
So she stormed off and I was like, I didn't hate this chick. I would never talk to her ever again. Well, I ended up getting reassigned in the hospital. I worked in the lab with her. One day I got called in and I was, I was so sick, man. I had 102 point something fever. I felt horrible and I pulled myself into work and I just, the whole time I'm staying there, I'm like, thing I work in a hospital cause I probably need to get checked out after this. And I'm sweating profusely and just feeling terrible. And my, my now wife,
Melissa walks up to me. She goes, honey, you look horrible. And it started taking care of me like right there. Like right through my forehead, gave me Tylenol's, wanted to check on me. I was like, I love her so much. so here, here we are. She took your temperature and you knew it was love. I did man. But she also yelled at me first. So I knew what could be coming if I ever screwed up, you know? Yeah. It's true.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (12:02.188)
Well, I want you to ask me highlights of this show, but I also want to ask you one thing because you and I were talking on the phone the other day. You have, you have the ultra unique honor of being able to write and carry on the legacy of someone that I met a couple of years ago. And the minute we met, we connected. He was amazing. He was giving. was, he's a brilliant, he was a brilliant writer, gentleman's gentleman talking about Ted Bell.
And what a terrific loss. don't want to capitalize on the loss. I want to capitalize the goodness that he left behind and the, the mantle that you now carry. Yeah. Teddy B. He was huge in my life, man. I loved him so much. I, I sobbed Dave when, when I got the call. I'm in this office. had to, I cried so hard, I had to lock my, my office door so my kids wouldn't freak out.
Yeah, man, he's a huge loss in my life. A lot of people didn't realize we were very close. He was a mentor to me. There would be no book spy without Ted Bell. Wow. That is just completely true. He was one of the first guys that I was complaining about writing reviews and stuff for other outlets for a few years. And he was like, Hey buddy, if you build a place, we'll come, you know? And he was involved early with ITW. So he understood the importance of needing a place that focused on thrillers and mysteries. And so
He was also the very first author to endorse. It was like, know, if you if you love thrillers, you'll love Ryan Steck's The Real Book Spy. And I was I was I was so thankful. I never would have dreamed during years, a decade of friendship and working with him behind the scenes that I would one day be writing Alex Hawk. Wow. And so I'm forever forever indebted to Ted, but also his amazing daughter, Bertie, who's a good friend of mine.
great friend of mine. She's like a long lost relative or half sibling. I have so much love for Bertie and she trusted, you know, me to come in and find her father's voice and, and Alex Hawk's voice. And I really didn't know how to go about writing. So my first book in that series called Monarch, Ted Bell's Monarch comes out March 25th, 2025. And I got this advice from Tom Colgan at Penguin, another mutual friend who said, Hey, don't try to write like Ted.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (14:27.5)
write like you. You know, I always tell the estate writers, don't try to come in and just write exactly like the author, you know, and I, and I get that and I get, get why you said that, but I started writing the book and I thought, I don't even care about my take on Hawk. Why would the reader? so I went back to the drawing board. It was like, I'm going have to learn to talk and write like Ted. And it's the hardest thing I've ever done, dude. It's, was so ridiculously hard.
My wife, I could not believe she's still with me. Six months I was writing that book. I'm not joking. 24 hours a day I was playing Ted Bell audio books, his brilliant narrator, John Shay. Hawk, Alex Hawk has a very deliberate word choice and cadence that he speaks with. It's unique. And so I really struggled to find that. So I would listen to the audio books on a loop 24 hours a day, even, even when I was sleeping for real. And that helped me. So I channel Ted.
And I would really challenge myself. I would write down a sentence and I would do this, by the way, with the very pen that, that, that he kept. And I would literally sit and write something that I aligned that I thought would make it in one of my books. So just a Ryan stack line. And then I would say, how would Ted Bell do that? It is so much harder. It was so much harder than I thought because he was a world-class wordsmith and it pushed me so much. I'm like,
Already trying to figure out I'm like, my gosh, you know, my, my series is about this cattle rancher in Montana and now he's poor and he can't, you know, and now I'm, I'm writing Alex Hawk, who's this British superhero, 6 billion, six richest guy in England can have anything, go anywhere, do anything. And it was like different. was a different world. and I'm, I'm already like, I got to learn to talk like a Brit and all this other stuff. And now I got to try to write like Ted. It was the hardest thing I've ever done.
And I'm really, really proud of that book. Bertie loved it. Tom Colgan really liked it. My agent loved it. So the early feedback has been phenomenal. I would sit here at my desk and just say, Ted, talk to me. I don't know how you would say this because he had a very unique way of saying things. Yeah, he did. You know that. yeah. One of my favorite things and I may pull it up here in the show as we go along is that
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (16:46.63)
we would end our show with toasting each other martini. We both liked our cocktails. And he was just one of those guys, you always felt like you were in the presence of, well, you were in the presence of a legend. You knew that this guy was, he had an insight and a sensitivity to the world, but not your average beer didn't. That's all I can think of putting it, but just a sweetheart of a guy. He, yeah, I mean,
A lot of people don't realize what a sweet man he was genuinely really sweet. couldn't have been better to me. And during a, when the pandemic first hit Ted didn't like to be inside. So he calls me up and he goes, Hey buddy, you had this big voice body. I said, yeah. And he goes, I'm going to charter a yacht. Let's go sail around for a few months and wait this pandemic out. And I said, are you, you being serious? And he goes, yeah, I can't take it anymore. And I was like,
Ted, like, who else going? He said, it'll be me. It'll be you. And I'm like, dude, if I leave my wife and like the start of a pandemic and go sail around with you for a few months and come back, I'm going come back to a divorce. And he laughs so hard. And then he says to me, yeah, buddy, but it's only your first divorce. So it doesn't count. And I said, no, I'm pretty sure it counts, Ted. So I can't go. but I loved him and he was so special to me.
I love you did like the tribute to him and I loved when he came on and I really actually went back and watched those when I signed on for the gig I went and watched every interview Ted ever did that we could find on the internet. So I'm glad that you know, share an admiration bro. Teddy be yeah just a Light that was taken too soon. You were asking a good guess 200 Ted would have been a great guess for episode 200
I'm going to, can't pull it up right now. take too much time, but we were, I have in-laws in Miami and the last time we spoke, was a, geez, I don't remember what it was a year, year over a year ago. And, he, were trying to orchestrate. He was going to be in Charleston with his girlfriend. We, we were going to be going out to Miami. We were going to rendezvous in Miami and just burn up a weekend, talking about books and having cocktails. And,
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (19:10.7)
things slipped through the cracks, I turn around and he was gone. And so it reminds me, grab those moments folks. Now I wanna change channels just a little bit. You asked me earlier who my first guest was. And so I pulled up the screen, I was going back and I'm like, man, May Cobb, June 17th, 2021. Wow. I know, right? And then here's what's interesting. My very second guest was your pal, KJ Howell.
really? Yeah, she was number two. And anyway, just went on from there. And it's just been one great interview after another. And I remember when I first started out, I was talking to a lot of up and comers and then, you know, it's the only way I know how to do things is I have to always shoot for the stars, not to pull a Casey Kasem, but I always go, okay, if you have no boundaries,
and you can dream big, who would it be? And so I started putting, had a list, it was tucked inside my closet of the top five people. I'm like, before I stop this show, these five minimum I wanna have. And I got all five of them. And number one was Don Winslow. And- That was a good one, in person. The in person, if you were to ask me, Dave, what are some of the highlights of these past three years was sitting down in my-
fun room there in the house with Don Winslow and just giving him all the time he wanted. you remember that show, was one of the few times there's very little cutting. I just said to my camera crew, roll, do not stop. And we just let him talk, because he's always so good at sound bites. I'm like, I don't want you to be a sound bite here. I want you to tell me the nitty gritty. And it was just so good. And I'm so lucky to have had this opportunity. It sounds like I'm saying goodbye, but.
No, we're celebrating it's episode 200. Yeah Don't you feel like nothing when we celebrate episode 500, but you know, we'll get there I would say this Don Winslow. That's the highest I've ever scored a book when he released the force blew my mind absolutely blew my mind one of my all-time favorites of his. Yeah mine too mine, too And Matt Damon is playing
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (21:28.588)
The lead. Is that right? No, no, I will tell you when I, when I launched the book spy, you know, I get a lot of books and I get a lot of signed books and I have a pretty sweet private collection. But one time someone tweeted me, Ryan, you probably got every signed book in the world, but like, is there anyone you don't have a signed book from that you would like one? I actually had to go look and I realized that I've got signed books from Daniel Silva, but never a personalized one. And I didn't even tag them cause I didn't want to come across like that.
So I literally just wrote back, yeah, Daniel Silva. So I'll probably have to, you know, get out to one of his events this year. I got a text from him and his wife, like they later that night. And it was like, why wouldn't you have told us? And I was like, every year when his new book comes out, I get a hard cover personalized to me. And that's been going on for like eight years. Wow. Well, I don't have that in my collection.
No, you don't. And I'm not going to sit here and spend much time being jealous. You know, I want to go back to a couple of things. Like when, when we started out this, we, and I think I can speak for you. We came at this for, from a sense of passion. We both love thriller mystery books. We both love to talk and too much. Yeah. Yeah.
But, and part of that is, we both love to help people. you know, there is a part of me that would like to make money on this, but the biggest part of that is knowing that we can lift some of these authors up, especially at the beginning. I think of the guys that have helped start, I'm like, go ahead, I've got you. Run toward the light because you're gonna be fine and you're probably gonna do great. And knowing that we're helping start that,
fan that flame is exciting. How about for you? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I remember, I remember covering Mark grainy before he was Mark grainy. He was still writing the Clancy's doing the gray mans, but I don't even think they'd hit the times list yet. I think it was back blast. I remember when that came out, you know, revealing and pushing that book and it was the first time he hit the list. I don't, I'm not taking credit at all. I'm just saying I bet I feel like I've been around forever. Like I, everyone, if you were getting the game now,
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (23:51.554)
you're going to go, the biggest authors in our genre, Jack Carr, Mark Grainy. And when I started, yes, Mark was a known commodity and really successful in crushing the Clancy's and the Greymane books are really good. They just hadn't like really hit the level that they're at. And mean, now they're number one New York time bestsellers. And Jack Carr, he wasn't even here yet. And so I look around and it's crazy. The thing that bums me out is how many really talented authors
aren't writing anymore. So genuinely two of my favorite that I got to cover, Eric Story and David Ricciardi, they're not even writing anymore. Why? It's a tough business, man. mean, you know, sales and everything else and, and you gotta, it is a tough industry to break into. Publishing's changed a lot. And, and I'm going to take a, I'm going to take a second and drill down on this because Ryan has a front row seat, not only to the best thriller writers in the world,
But he also has a front row seat to the inside scoop. mean, more even than Real Book Spy, he knows how the system works. how would you say, what do you say, just the first things that pop off the top of your head, is this not a list of five, the biggest shift, change in publishing since you've launched Real Book Spy? For sure, without a question. Authors are giving way less runway now.
take off. Like I said, Mark, I think Greymane is book number five. Thank God Tom Colgan and others were like, look, this is great. We got to, let's keep it going before they were massive, huge success. Blockbuster number one New York Times bestsellers. I just think now, if you go back, you can look at authors, I won't name names, but one of my very favorites, it's true that you can say now 24, 25, 26 books in everything they've ever written.
has been a New York time bestseller. That's true, but it's not, there's an asterisk kind of, I'm not taking anything away from them, but they were not New York time sellers when they originally came out. So they became New York time bestsellers four or five, six, whatever it is into your series. And then your backlist takes off. Now we saw that with Jack Carr. You know, the terminal list was not originally a New York time bestseller and it was
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (26:15.694)
I think it was actually book three Savage son Jack. I'm sorry if it was number two, man But I think it was book three when everything blew up. He was on Rogan He just took off now. He's the biggest celebrity author in the world I would argue that the guys on Pat McAfee Joe Rogan, dude, look at his events yeah, he doesn't dance and they have to write out venues for him. Yeah, it's crazy, man. And so There's so many good authors
that just don't get that kind of runway right now. They're canceled and I don't, not in the way canceled, but like their series aren't renewed or extended. And I really think if they just had another book or two, it's gonna take off. But there's just, there's not that patience anymore in publishing. And how about monetarily? Cause I've been talking to some guys recently and I hear this, the upfront, the upfront,
What's the signing bonuses are not quite what they used to be. The royalties are not quite what they used to be. And the biggest thing probably that I hear more of than anything is the social media and marketing is now done pretty much exclusively by the author and not hand fed by the team behind them. Like it used to be. Yeah. I'm not going to speak for every publisher, but it is absolutely true that a lot of
time the case is there's this attitude right of there's sort of like these entry level contracts for for new writers And you're gonna sink or swim and they'll throw it against the wall And if it takes off and you become jack car great now now they're gonna really support you market sure all that stuff But jack car is a unicorn man. I mean he's an enigma. It's not he's not A lot of people are trying to recreate that no one ever will
I mean, he is his own thing. And it's not just because he's such a marketing marvel, which he is, but it's the fact that look, he lived it, slept it, ate it, drank it, writes it, still lives it. It is, like you said, it's a perfect storm unicorn. He's the sweetest man, but I like to the point where I do my own book signings and I'll have on a Jack Carr watch and people are like, my gosh, you read Jack Carr? And I'm like, yeah, I Jack Carr.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (28:35.874)
You know, talk about my books now and they're like, I love Jack Carr's books. I'm like, I love them too. And then eventually they'll start fan, just like fanboying out in front of me. So I can't help it, man. I love thrillers too. So I'm like, I know I really love book three. His new one's not out yet. I read it early. Like you read it early. I'm like, yeah. Next thing I know I'm texting Jack. Like I'm with one of your biggest fans at one of my events. And this is what a good duty is. He's like, get their name and address so I can send them some stuff. And I'm like, yeah, okay.
he did that with one of my wife's doctors one time. We're in the middle of a very serious conversation day about my wife's health and a surgery. And the guy looks over and he goes, are you a Jack Carfan? And I was like, you've got to be kidding me. But I said, yes, I am. And, I can't remember if I either called them or texted them right then, right there. And he was like,
Hey, get all their info. I want to send them some stuff. This next wave of thriller authors, man, you've got the golden age, the nineties, early two thousands, Vince Flynn, Brad Thor, Ted Bell, Lee Child, Daniel Silva, Kyle Mills. Then you have the next wave, Mark Graney, Brad Taylor. It's getting like a much smaller who's next. So this next wave of, of thriller writers, you know, I would love to be one of the ones that that breaks out. So would Jack Stewart. Sure. I'm bet we're crushing it. Just absolutely wrote a fantastic Mitch Rapp novel.
So there's a lot of good, you know, younger writers Steve Uzzani like there's there's a lot of good new talent in the genre The question is who's gonna get enough runway to really break out Taylor Moore Connor Sullivan. They're all friends of mine. They are all super talented I really hope we're sitting here in ten years from now on on episode 2000 talking about How everybody made it? Yeah
I'm thinking of a couple of guys that I have befriended recently and DJ Williams came down to do the show last week or the week before and we were talking and he's dipped his foot in both traditional and self-publishing right now he's doing self-publishing but he said his magic is learning the mechanics of self-publishing and the algorithms and how to work inside that system and he's done very well with it. Steve Stratton is another guy who's really just kind of studied it.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (30:45.762)
But some of these guys coming up like the Bruce Borges, Steve Stratton, mean, there's a ton of them. I think these guys are learning that it takes way more than they ever thought. And that's what they say to me on the show, sometimes behind the scenes, like, man, I had no idea. But the guys that are really gonna do it, you gotta put out a great product. You gotta be tenacious at every turn. And you gotta learn the machine.
whether you're going to be traditional otherwise. I'm going to tell you my projection when in the next year, new talent coming in. name is Kelly Mullen. She's in the UK. She wrote a book called This Is Not a Game. It's probably the best thing I've read in a couple of years. Wow. Yeah. It's a whodunit. What's your name? It's a mystery. Kelly Mullen. Okay. I'm going to be featuring her prominently on the Real Book Spy. I'm calling it now, like it's September, almost October.
I genuinely believe she will be the debut of 25 and that'll be one of the bigger mystery books of the year. It's going to be huge. I'm going to make sure that she's on the show and I guess I'm not going to get her before you. Thanks a lot. Appreciate that. You're not getting her before me. You're not. But you should bring her on. Listen, she's so great. The book is like a whodunnit set on Mackinac Island here in Michigan. So I'm intimately familiar with it. It's the only place in America where cars are outlawed. It's a little island.
known for its fudge and, colorful people. And it is a place I spent a lot of time and I've always thought, man, I should put a book here. And, so this thing comes across my desk a few weeks ago and I'm reading it. I'm like Mackinac and sure enough was Mackinac Island. I was so blown away. It was one of these books that I could not put down and I didn't want it to end. So I'm racing to the end, but I don't want it to end. I literally would set it down at the end.
Every chapter I would set it down and just sit here and think like what is happening? Like I really couldn't figure it out. I was so impressed I loved it so much man. That books gonna be huge next year Is this a debut or has she been doing this law? It's a debut. It's gonna be huge. All right Well, this is come back and delete this if it flops, okay So that no one knows I but I really don't think it's gonna it's already sold movie rights So one of the characters names in the book is Matthew Reed
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (33:11.208)
R E E D. Of course I write Matthew Redd and then another character's name is Alex. And of course now I write Alex Hawke and I'm like, there's a lot of similarities. It's Mackinac, these character names. And then I get to chapter three and it's dark and stormy. And that is the title of the third chapter in my first hawk book, Ted Bell's Monarch. And I was like, what is happening? So I reached out to her like immediately and was like,
Hey, I'm such a fan while this book's blowing me away and she is great, man. She's great. Wow. Okay. Well, note to self, get her on the show. Yep. This is not a game. Check it out. This is not a game. All right. Well, I'm trying to think of a couple of books. I'm going to sit here and brag about a couple of books that I've really enjoyed just this past I was going to ask you that. I have questions for you, know, Dave.
All right, well, thank you. I'm looking forward to that because, if I put too many quarters in your machine, you'll never stop. Here's a couple that's exactly right. Here's a couple that I really, really enjoyed. And I think I gave this the winning position on our top 20 books of the summer. Brian Freeman's Break Every Rule. that's a good one. Couple things about Brian. First of all, he writes as part of my favorite series, Jason Bourne series. He's probably one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet on the planet. He's always giving and kind and gracious.
and he's a hell of a writer. there's a win. I really enjoyed Bruce Borgess Shades of Mercy, which was his follow-up to his first book. And he's just another one of those stellar guys. There's a guy that blew me away. I'd never heard of him. I was approached by his people to read this book and I read, I saw the book Lilith and I'm like, I don't know about that. Rick's dad.
Rickstead Eric Rickstead and I read that book and I'm like, wow, this is one of the most Fresh and original books I've read and I was amazed and he was a wonderful guest on the show as well Yep, my second favorite book of the summer was Christopher Reich's Matterhorn I said on the show which I may drop in here Probably the single best starting chapter. I had read the entire year. I mean
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (35:29.314)
There's a lot of great sorting chapters out there, but when you read a chapter and you go through it so fast and you're all of a sudden at the end of it and you go, my gosh, where did the time go? And you realize and you stop kind of like you do and you catch your breath and you go, wait a second, there wasn't a single wasted word in there. There was so much backstory, so much action in so few words. like, how the hell did you do that? And we sat down in the studios in LA.
And he just broke it down and you want to talk about a master class in writing a thriller. Christopher Reich. He's great. And then of course, you know, I could sit here and brag all day about Don Winslow, but he doesn't need my brag. And he's just in a world about himself. And then CJ Box was the guy that I had never read. I've course heard about him forever. When we first got, you never read him. had never read him. And it's funny because I'm a huge Craig Johnson Longmire fan.
So I picked up CJ Box and I'm like, holy bananas, this guy can write. And then we started, we got together on the show and I don't know what I, I expected something other than I got and he was way more approachable than I was expecting. Super delightful guy. And Chuck is the best man. He's of the best writers. my favorite living author. He is tied for my all time favorite author with Vince Flynn. Wow. Yeah. He's, he has a magic to it.
And I often ask these guys right before I ask them their best writing device, I'm like, you know, that secret sauce, what's that thing? What's the element that you have mastered? Do you feel that you've mastered? you know, they all say, they're all so, you know, I just, I'm really work hard at it or what? I'm like, no, it's more than that. But he's a master. He's the only author that I've gotten starstruck with, cause I was such a fan. Yeah. When I...
first got to like get to know him a decade ago now. was dude. I was so starstruck. Like I was so and I was shaking. I was so nervous. A couple years later. I had pneumonia. I was really sick and they sent me the advanced copy of vicious circle is new novel. I was at our old house. I was in my lazy boy and I'm on all these meds. I can't breathe. I'm just like trying to stay alive and I'm reading vicious circle and I get down and it talked about introduced deputy Ryan's deck.
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And dude, it literally knocked the wind out of me. I'm scared of God. I was like, couldn't breathe. And my wife's like, what's wrong? And I was like, this is either a huge coincidence or I'm, think Chuck put me in his foot, which it was not a coincidence. And I gotta be honest with you. I didn't know it wasn't like, kept telling myself like, maybe he did it. Didn't even realize he did it. Maybe, you know, it's not that common of a name. So he sent me a signed book and in it, he said to the deputy sheriff and I was like, my gosh, he did it on purpose for sure.
And I freaked out. so I'll never forget that. And then I was at PLA this year in Ohio. And I got to tell you, you'll appreciate it I didn't know you were a fan of them. So I'm standing in line and I, this, this makes me look so bad because I had like a mini entourage. I had people with me. So my wife's handling stuff because I'm, I'm, I'm like wrapped up in, I'm, I'm got a book on deadline. I'm still running the books by, got all this stuff going on.
So I got my wife and someone else checking me in. Like I literally have a mini entourage. My daughter's shepherding me around and I'm got my head down and they're like, Corey, I'm like Ryan stack, like author and it's yeah. And so we're going through the whole thing and I look up and I'm like, I think that's Craig Johnson. And I thought, nah, cause he wouldn't be by himself. And so I looked back down and he's waiting in the line. Like he's just like a normal person. And so finally someone realized it and they were like, come over here. they're like,
name sir. And he like leans in and he's like, Craig Johnson. And they're like, yeah, I thought that was you totally by himself. he had his cowboy hat off for a sec. So I did, I was like, I think that's him, but the cowboy hat. was like, it's Craig Johnson. And it was only the second time I've ever really been like starstruck in front of another author. So I said, hi, that dude, what a rock star. So we all had like one room for our events and
I was feeling good because we sold out of all my books in like an hour. So I was like, wow, we had a, we had a good showing. This was good. I met so many people took selfies, did the whole thing. Then I was leaving PLA and you have to go through this auditorium and I'm like, what are they doing in there? And the guy goes, Craig Johnson speaking in there. And I was like, right now? And they're like, no, a couple hours. It was already packed. The whole auditorium was full. There was a line. Wow. Wow. was like, he's on a different level. Good for you, Craig. Like he's crushing it.
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There is something that I want to touch on about the fact, you use the phrase crushing it. And we touched on this earlier about how hard it is for writers who are starting out thinking, you know what, this is what I want to do for a living. I always find myself speaking out of both sides of my mouth when I say this side one, you should aim for whatever it is you want and go after it with reckless abandon and forget about the odds. Don't, and this is a phrase I use a lot of.
Don't worry about the how, just focus on the what. The what is what you want, the how, the universe, God, the powers around you, luck, et cetera, we'll figure that out. you focus on the how, you'll get caught up in it, but you gotta chase the dream. that's like, I go back to radio, that's how, someone was asking me just recently over lunch, they said, you know, how did you get to where you did in radio? And I said, at about 14,
I decided what it was and I put it up on the wall and I focus it on like, that's what I want. don't worry. I'm not going to worry about how I get there. I just know what I want and that's how I was able to do it. So that's one side of the mouth. The other is you got to realize that the chances of you hitting it will use the phrase Jack Carr style, just to really put the limit out there. By the way, he's saying never tell me the odds. Right. Is the chances are super slim. However, I always go by this, this thinking.
You know, remember that phrase and you guys got the lottery. if you, you can't win if you don't play, right? So I kind of use that with writing. You can't hit the best seller list if you don't finish the chapter, AKA finish the book. So that is my big words of wisdom from on high. I agree. I totally agree. I, I, someone asked me the last interview I did before today with you, of course, best.
ever. but I got asked, they were like, everything you know about being a book, spying an author, how hard it is. If you could go back, you know, 15 years before you were getting into publishing, knowing everything, you know, now would you still do it? And I, I, I sincerely don't know. I really don't. You mean you don't know because you realize now or you have the insights now to know how tough it is and you're not sure you're up for it. Yeah. I really think, listen, man, it was grueling. Like very few people understand how much work you have to do. Yes.
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Right. I'm highlight of your day, obviously, clearly. Right. So we're just hanging out. But that's a joke for people really believe that. But like, this is the easy part. This is the fun part. Right. Right. So when you're doing the interview, that's great. Everyone looks like, that's a cool job. That's that's a fun gig. Sure. Yes. Now there's hours that goes in after this. Thank God that's all on you. Not me. Because like I'm your guest. So you get to do that. Not me.
I have the same issue. So I bring people onto my podcast or if I'm doing reviews or people see reading guides come out, like that's all made by AI. I have to sift and go through all this stuff myself and try to project which books are going to be a fit with our audience. There's so much work. So when I got into this 15 years ago, I'm talking until 2023, I was working over a hundred hours a week on stuff, just burning myself out. And then turned around one day, I signed a book deal.
turned around one day and my kids all looked five years older. And I was like, when did that happen? You know? And so I was like, man, I gotta slow down cause I'm literally missing, I have six kids and I'm missing their childhood. So I did, I slowed down. Now I've got more help around me. I focus on writing books, but it's been a grind. Like it's really a grind. And so people don't realize that they see the fun parts. David Temple gets to sit down with Don Winslow in person. First of all,
You're talking so much work leading up to that point to get in the position to even be able to do that Yes, okay, and there's just so much work that goes into it that yeah I truly don't know if you would have told me all of this like if I could have just seen it myself How hard the industry is how hard it is to get started and to stay in it? No, I honestly think I probably would never have done it and that's my fairest honest answer I think I would have went a different direction what I don't know. I'm a failed sports journalist
And my original dream as a child was to be a Ninja Turtle. I don't really... I just want you to know that you can still be a Ninja Turtle if you'd like to. Yeah? Yeah. I'm going to be this year for Halloween with my kids. So yeah. Here's what we're going to do. We're going take a very short break because daddy needs to get some more coffee, some more water and turn on the AC because daddy's burning up. It must be my hormones kicking in.
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I'm with Ryan Steck, it's episode 200 here on the Thriller Zone. Stay with us. I seriously need to go crank the air up, hang on one second. you're cool. Don't move, baby, don't move. not going anywhere. I got my air on already. Some of us came prepared, Dave.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (45:15.262)
And we're back. Ryan Steck is with me here on episode 200 on the Thriller Zone. I'm Dave Temple. Hi there. This is only the second time in three years I've actually walked out of the room to get more coffee. First time with Chris Hottie, the second time's with you. Listen, I'm honored to be in that company. Chris is the great dude. I'm reading his next book. Comes out next year right now. It's fantastic. I'm a big fan of his. Dead Ringer? Yeah.
He promised me yesterday, we're on the phone, because he was talking about, we were talking about Haley Chill. And he said, I said, dude, everyone, Jack Stewart had flown into town this weekend. We had brunch and he was talking about how good it was. And now you're telling me, and I'm like, Chris, everybody's talking about how good it is. When am I going to get a copy? Or Dave, just tell me when I'll get it to you. So, Hey, when you- It's so good, by the way, though, it really is. It's fantastic. Well,
Chris Hardy is a talented guy. There's a couple of things I wanna hit on. You said something right before, and I'm gonna share this for those who don't know. You made a comment about how much work goes into this, and I just want, I wanna share with my listeners just a little teeny tiny thumbnail of what it takes to do the show. You made a comment about Don Winslow. Now, when a book finally comes to me, I've got to read the book. That's gonna take me.
you know, a day, maybe two days. I'm gonna make my notes and then I'm gonna really, I'm gonna drill down on your website. I'm gonna find out who you are, what you've done, what you've read, written, you know, what your back past is, et cetera, et cetera. Then we're gonna get on the show. Then I'm gonna send you an email. I'm gonna give you kind of an idea. Here's what we're gonna do. This is what I need from you, your headshot and so forth. Then we're gonna do the show. Then I'm gonna cut the show.
And it usually takes me about 20 hours to cut the show the way I want it because it's TV and visual and audio. So I'm a good 20, 30, 40, I'm 40 hours in. So I had someone reach out recently. Here's part of the reason I'm bringing up. Well, dude, mean, you you can get me in and out really quick. It's like the people who say to you, dude, it won't take you but like 15 minutes. I'm like, well, first of all, that's not true.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (47:39.21)
Second of all, I like Ryan have five, 10, 20 books coming in a week. And I got to figure out which one do I want to read? Which one do I want to spend time with? And who do I want to sit and talk to? And here's a part of the element that some people are going to have their feathers ruffled over. And part of it's just kind of reality. Now, when I first started, as you'll remember Ryan,
I brought in a lot of underdogs, brand new guys, debut authors, self-published authors. And I love those guys because we're all in this together. However, when it comes time when sponsors are necessary to drive the power of the show, and you got to pay the bills of hosting and this and that and the other, with AI, it just gets more and more expensive. You have to think, and especially if the sponsor says, well, who's on the show? Cause I'm going to lay this money down.
I want to know who it is. So you got to have a caliber of people that people know about. So there's so many variables to go into it. And on top of that, then I end up getting cancer. And then that whole road can really sidestep you. So you're not operating at quite the eight cylinders that you were before. So you got to really, you got to, you got a lot of things to balance is what I'm getting at. there are a lot of people out there who've been trying to get on the show for a long time.
I might eventually get to you and others I won't be able to get to you, but I want to, I want to just say that's what it takes. Thanks for the, you know, thanks for the memories and thanks for joining us on this ride. And no, I'm not saying goodbye. Does that make sense, Ryan? Yeah, man, I get it. I really do. I get like 10 emails a day from people like, can you read my book? I've been a book spy supporter and follower for all these years. would love, and I, I couldn't
Possibly get to everything you know yeah, so I really try to prioritize Look there's books you have to cover if you're in my position you have to her or they're big books you have to cover them and Then I try to prioritize ones. think are gonna be the best fit for my audience And I really do try to have a mix a bigger name smaller names new names I want to be the platform that can help newer authors get some name recognition gain some followers some readers and all that so I Work really hard to do that
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But where I've cut back is in the number of reviews. In 2018, I did like 320 book reviews. It sucked. Like it really sucked. People are like, yeah, but you read books for a living. I can be a Brownie tester for a living. Eventually it's going to suck. Like it's going to start to feel like work. Like it really is, man. Okay. There's, don't think there's any perfect, amazing job. I'm very thankful to be where I'm at. Like I'm incredibly thankful and I wouldn't change a thing today. I'm very, very thankful.
I might not want to go back and do it all again. I might just quit and like become a nerd and just do numbers and accounting. And I don't even know, but I wouldn't probably do all this again because you sacrifice a lot to get here. That's a lot of work. It's a lot of stress. You know how many authors, like I don't know how many will talk about it, but so many of them are just burnt out and stressed out to the max. When you're on a deadline, writing a book is art. So you can only force it and rush it so much. There's days I just don't have the good words flowing.
They're just, they're not there. And then there's times I'm locked in and it's like, I can't write enough. Right. So I try to just get one chapter a day. It's not always great, but I can come back and fix it. Fine. So I'm very thankful to be where I'm at, but I have a writing career and I have the books by now and I'm a dad and I'm a husband and I have parents that are getting older. That's always a weird dynamic when your parents are aging and now you got to start taking care of them and there's life stuff and
It's such a juggling act. So I don't do as many reviews. So I will only review books that I love. So like some people are like, wow, you only do good book reviews. Yeah. I don't have time for bad ones. I promise you that if I'm reading a book and I'm not into it, it doesn't help me. It doesn't help you. If I write a bad book review, it doesn't help the author. So it is a grind, man. That I understand a lot goes into this. I can see people wanting like, just squeeze me in. They have a quick episode and there's so much that goes on.
behind the scenes. All right. I have had a couple guys that I have squeezed in, but you have to remember there's two things really crucial here. You got to know this. I have a hard time talking about your book if I haven't read it. Now I can fake it. Don't I'm not real big fan of that. can skim it. Not the biggest fan of that. But if I like it, I want to, I want to read, I want to talk about it. The other thing is I am
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (52:26.592)
a perfectionist to a pretty stupid degree. I have to have the show a certain way. It's got a look away, it's got a sound away. Now you want to hear a pet peeve of mine, I'm going to throw this out here. If you show up for the show and you don't have any light on your face, or you don't have a good microphone, or you're not willing to wear headphones or something so that the feedback is in my ear, or you are not alive with a heartbeat, you're not going to be on the show.
That's one thing that I've always kind of let slide up until now, but recently I've run into, I'm like, dude, I can't see, you know, I'm gonna fly. Well, I can pull a window over. If you want to pull out a microphone, I'm using the one on my laptop. That's a little bit of a beef, but I'm just like, I'm over it. Cause I will put, I spend money on every single show. Right. and money. Yeah. So I treat everything. And here's another thing I was telling Tammy was asking me the other She said, why, why do you work so hard? said, baby, cause
I love what I do. said, it's got to hit a certain level. Because if it doesn't, you go, well, you can just kind of half-ass it. I don't know half-assing. I'm not that half-ass guy. Same, same. I'm all in on something or I'm all the way out. Like I'm very hot and I'm very cold. So when I love it, I will make a whole career out of it. Right? Thrillers, books, and all that. You know the hardest thing about my job, and now you're getting it as well,
But like I found Jack Carr probably almost a year before anyone else did. I had no one to talk about, like to discuss how great the terminal list was. It took like a year. So I'm just sitting there like, I can't wait for this book to come out so I can get some people that have read it and we can talk about how great it is together. That's really tough, but I love that. I really love when you can connect with someone that shares the interest that you do and you can sit there and just,
kind of gush over how great a book was and what did you think of that? What did think of this? You know, it's so funny. I try to, you know, we're in a little bit of the world of hyperbole. It just happens. And so I always try to balance my hyperbole with sincerity, of course. But when I run across a book that I really love, I can't not talk about it and I can't not gush about it. I'm trying to think of like,
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The Spy Coast by Tess Gerritsen. I have introduced more people to The Spy Coast and Matterhorn, Todd Goldberg's Gangsters Don't Die. That's a good one too. and I just like, you have to read this. Lee Goldberg was on last week and I said, you ever have Sharp and Walker show up and if they want to talk about what's in the phone book, those don't exist anymore, I will listen to it because the dialogue is so good.
So I want to say that. Another thing, we're talking about technicality. just had, the show is going to drop next week. Hold on. I know you've read this, Ryan Coleman. Yeah. Yeah. I've got it sitting over there. Billy the Kid. All right. Now here's a guy and I'm not doing a lot of debuts right now, only because of timing, but he and I have been on contact for over a year. He works with Shane Salerno in the Story Factory, a bunch of
His classmates are really well-known writers, but I said dude I'll promise you this when you when you get ready Come hit me and and we reached out a couple days early And and come to find out it's his very first podcast. I said go buy this microphone Get this light do this thing You will be glad and he did it and he followed the rules and you're gonna love the episode next week And you're gonna love the book when it comes out. I love I totally agree. I totally agree when I'm on Twitch. Yeah, okay
I don't do a lot interviews there because it has to be the perfect storm for me. So it's not quite like what you're doing. You know, my presence is mostly on the real books by.com. That's where you're going to get everything from me. Now have a sub stack reading, it's an unfiltered thoughts and all that. But when I bring on a guest on Twitch for the run on our numbers on there are really high. I'm really careful. So I get asked all the time like, Hey, I'd love to come on that. And it's like, Hmm, you know, I'm very selective there. It needs to be someone that I admire, but we're friends. There's chemistry.
because we don't just talk about books. You know, I want to laugh and have fun and that's what's made it work. And so it is hard. You know, it is hard for, for new writers when they're getting into the game, they, they want to do all this stuff. They don't understand it, but I also get where they're coming from. Cause it is so incredibly hard. I was a book spy. Like I had the platform when fields of fire came out in 2023, but I didn't know how to use my own platform to tell readers I was now an author. So it was, mean, it was literally this year. I still had people or that was 2022.
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There was, there was still people this year that are like, wait a sec, you're writing books now. And I'm like, man, I've got to start covering my own books on my own website. It's this weird transition, but yeah, I mean, I know what goes into it and I want to support, you know, good writers. That's, that's the bottom line. And you do a fantastic job of that. Now listen to your show, but I have questions for you. Okay. And you're done dodging them. Mr. Big shot, because I'm about to put you.
the flame Dave on this. Okay. These are going to get tough. Okay. No, I'm just kidding. They're not. know all the questions you don't want to be asked because they're all the ones I wouldn't want to be asked. So I, I was, I did write them down cause I was going to tease you and text you. Here's my questions and make you freak out, but I didn't. So I'm not going to do any of that. Who is your longest interview?
My longest interview, probably, I think it was Lee Goldberg that just dropped last week. Really? How long was it? It was, it was an, I want to say an hour 40. Now, trust me, there are some of these conversations go well longer, but there are times that we, there are two things that happen.
There will take tangents and sometimes I have to stop and I go, will I lose the audience on this tangent? Because I come from radio, so I have to be sure that you're staying put as long as I possibly can. So I'll either cut that out. The other thing is I get a lot of, Dave, you take this off the record? So there's tons of great, my God, Ryan, there's so much, and I know you've got this too. Moments where I'm going, but,
readers, my listeners want, they would love this. Yeah, I can't talk about this now. I'm going to tell you, but I need it, which is why you'll see me sometimes do this. That's, that's a note to myself to edit. Make sure you cut this piece out. But yeah, I think, I think Lee Goldberg was that Joe Kenda is another record taker. And then right there at number three would be Don Winslow when he came out to the house and we sat down and, and with Don,
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And I know I'm fanboying here. I could talk to him until sunset. Because his life is so rich and wide and deep and he's just an interesting cat. Like just talk about movies, favorite movies, favorite lines in movies, non-fiction books that you've read recently that he loves. I was in his house once and he goes, you see this room? I was thinking, who's he reading? He said, these are all nonfiction.
I'm a big non-fiction writer. answering your question, those three, it's Lee Goldberg, it's Joe Kenda, and it's Donald Winslow. And I try to keep them, you know, it's so funny, let me interject this. Chris Hoddy and I were talking about three weeks ago and he goes, Jesus, Dave, come on, shorten these things. you just fucking, just shorten them. Could you, I'm like, what, Chris, you know, 30, 30 is too long. Well, how long? 20, 20 would be good. 15 would be better. I'm like, really?
Huh. So I came back to this new season, you know, season seven, I'm like, we're going to go 30 minutes. Lee Goldberg shoots out of the gate an hour 40. I'm like, okay, well. Yeah. Yeah. Does that answer your question? That's a good answer. It's a good answer. All right. Best book or favorite book that you've read preparing for an interview. So the guest was coming on. You got the book early. That's one. Now that is like picking your favorite child, isn't it?
Yeah, it is. It's a tough one. Okay.
Okay. It's a toss up between.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (01:01:03.468)
an author and an author with a book. in other words, right. Don Winslow writes is just, I could spend way too much time on that. I'm not going to, but his last trilogy city, his city trilogy just floored me. It was like the perfect culmination of a career also. Now here's one that surprises you. And I would love to pull all these. there it is right there. But it's on the bottom of this day.
I'll go in see if it doesn't fall longer. Jesus. And there it goes. All right. And I made a joke when I got this guy on the phone because I said, you know, if, the bench press down in my gym downstairs doesn't work, I'll just, I'll just do overhead presses with the year of the locust. Now.
I know if you have heard this show, you know, I will beef on you if you're, if you're cranking over 400 pages. Cause I'm just like, Hey, my attention span doesn't work that way. it used to. I I agree. Also, I think you can tell a story and go back to listen to Lee Goldberg. I'm going to pimp him again. you know, his new magic numbers, like 75 to 80,000 words, which falls at about 285 to 300. So I picked up,
Who was pimping me on this? David Brown of Simon and Schuster, I'm sure it was. the bus. Yeah, the bus. The bus driver, H.R. mystery bus. Mr. Bus Driver said, please, you know, read this. And it came 787 pages. It's a beefer. However.
I could not put it down.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (01:02:47.498)
It was, it got a little strange near the end. And it kind of lost me, but I hung in there with it and then it pulled me back around. But I would say, I would say, yeah, I would say the Don Winslow stuff, that really captivated me because it went so long. And then for some reason that Matterhorn by Christopher Reich, that actually did a little paradigm shift in my head to the point of,
And I don't know if you knew this or not, Ryan, but I write books too. It made me kind of start to reconstruct the way I will approach my thriller writing because it was so impactful. So there you go. I agree Matterhorn had a profound impact on me with a project I can't even talk about yet, but that one directly impacted me in a way. Okay.
Let's take, I'm not one of those guests. can't tell you yet, but yeah. But that book, I can't tell you, like it's when I read I.S. Barry, the peacock and the sparrow, I went, my God, we have a female Jean LaCarrée in our midst. And, and I, that sounds kind of weird for me to say that because she is just a remarkable writer in her own right. So I don't want to take anything away from that. But that,
I think of her and I think of McCloskey and the way they craft these stories. But something about Christopher Reich, it so hit me so much that I've gone back and I've started reading his old stuff on my own time. That's when you know you have really impacted me. I did the same thing with Ted Bell, by the way, back in the day. Well, that's a good pick. I'm going to warn you up front, Monarchs, that's a chunker. That's a big book. There's a lot to transition from that era of Hawk.
to this new one. And so that ended up being, that's the biggest book I've ever written. It's just a tick under 140,000 words. So you get your money's worth. It's a big one. It's a big one. But you know, my agent didn't know that. So shout out to John Tell, but I was so worried. And I called Tom Cogan and I said, Hey, I'm going to be over a hundred thousand words. Is that okay? And he's like, well, what are we talking here? And I was like, probably 130, 140. He's like, that's fine. And so he didn't bat an eye. Why didn't tell John that? So my agent read it and he called me and said, Hey, this is great.
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Like I, I love this book. I cannot believe it's so fast. I said, they read fast. goes, I read it like a day. I read it almost in one sitting. And I was like, thank God. Cause that's 140,000 words. And he was like, really? And I said, yeah. And he was like, I had no idea. And I was like, well, I like to hear that. so we'll see. I'm gonna, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna say a secret without saying the secret. I'm working on something for 2025 and I want you and that
book to be a part of it. We've just started talking about this. I can't say who I'm talking about it with, but we were on the phone for hours yesterday. It's a new development I'm working on. You're going to be a perfect candidate for it. And that book could be a perfect way to launch that part of what I'm talking about.
Can I get any more innocuous than that? It's something new for 2025. I'm I'm in. We're besties, I'm in. Stop trying to dodge my questions. All right. Who, who's, who have you had on the most times? Who's your most reoccurring guest? Probably Mark Grainy or Meg Gardner. Well, those are two good ones to have back. And the reason being Mark Grainy for some reason, his, his people are persistent.
Mark is such a sweetheart of a guy and I always say to him when I say I'm like, Mark, whatever you got, I'll read. And I'm not even, you know, I have backed off of my volume of military thriller writers lately only because, you know, you could spend your whole life just there. And Meg Gardner, Meg Gardner could write recipes and I would read them because I know she'd figured out a way to make them interesting. I agree. So those two. She's fantastic. Those two.
Okay. All right. Mark and Meg, those are good. Those are good. Dream guest. Who would be your number one dream guest? Dead or alive, David. That's such a good one. okay. Wait a minute. Well, I am going to say this. This is interesting because I was talking to Ryan Coleman about this recently. I said, it's interesting that just inside the last 90 days, there are two guys that were on my radar and I had been really trying to get them.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (01:07:31.79)
Greg Harden and Nelson DeMille. And within weeks, they're both gone. And that had a profound effect on me, especially with what I'm going through these days. But my dream guest, you know what? There are two guys that pop into my mind instantly. Elmore Leonard, you know, you can always pull the Raymond Chandlers, but Elmore Leonard is one of them. And Thomas Wolfe would be the other.
because Thomas Wolfe, now talking about a guy who starts at 150,000 words, was one of the first, like what I remember in high school, was it Bonfire or the Vanities? I was like, wow, who is this? So you got him. But Elmore Leonard has always fascinated me. And here's an interesting story you're going to love because in 1986, I moved from Virginia Beach
to Detroit, Michigan. I've landed my first afternoon drive show at WNIC Detroit's Nicest Rock. Back when it was Dave McKay, because then I went to mornings and it became, we became Structure Day with Dave McKay. I had a girlfriend at the time. She, I lived in Southfield and she lived in Bloomfield Hills. And I went to visit her one day. She goes, you'll never guess who lives down the street from me. Who? Elmore Leonard. And I'm like,
Baby, I'm walking down the street right now. I'm going to go up and knock on the door and I'm going, you can't do that. And I wish I had, but that guy right there, he has, he had a profound effect on the way I see stories. And then this is the key I learned from Elmore and he's famous for this. Take out the stuff people don't read. You can learn so much by just taking out words that you, you think are important.
and they just don't move the story forward. You're trying to fatten the chapter or something strip out down to the bone and you'll be amazed how good the story still is. Okay. I went too long on that. No, I have a good answer, man. I would pick Vince Flynn, but I like your answers. but I have, okay. I have to tell this now. Nelson DeMille, talked right after he passed. I was crushed and here's, here's the crazy thing. So originally Ted Bell's first book,
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Walk came out in 03. The three authors that that blurbed that were James Patterson, Clive Cussler and Nelson DeMille. That's a pretty good lineup. so Bertie Bell and I had sat down and it was like, who do we want to send Monarch to? And so I don't remember whose idea it was, but it was like one of us, you we should go for the original three and you know, you can't get Clive cause you know, he passed. And so I said, well, listen, we can try to get to Jim Patterson. We can go to Nelson for sure.
he blurred my second book. I love him. We're friends. I'll call Nelson and then let's go to Clive's on Dirk. So we did. So, Patterson right away said, I'd love to read it. Gave us a great blurb. a really, really great endorsement and dirt Custler did too. And so I thought, that's weird. I haven't heard back from Nelson. And, I got the email from him where he said, Hey, you know, I'd like to try to get to this, just so you know, I have cancer.
And I didn't, I didn't know. And so I was kind of floored and I sort of came back with like, how's your prognosis? How are you? Forget about the book. What can I do for you? And he said, look, it's treatable. I'm in chemo. And I said, okay, okay. And so a couple of weeks later, his assistant wrote us to say, look, Nelson's not feeling well, you know, he's probably not going to get to this. And so I wrote him a private note that was like, Hey dude, don't worry about the book. I
Seriously, don't care. Don't, don't, don't even worry about reading it. Don't look at it. Love you. Hope you're doing okay. Please let me know if there's anything we can do. A week later got a response from Nelson. It was like, no, I'm to be reading it during chemo and, just, you know, sit tight. It was one day short of three weeks from his death. I had no idea he was that sick. He sent us, an endorsement that says packed with
twisting surprises and a double dose of action. Ted Bell's monarch marks the return of Lord Alexander Hawk, one of the thriller genres most captivating and electric heroes, as he races to not only stop a fiendish plot to attack London, but also find the missing king before the UK is torn apart. Hawk has never flown higher. And he said, you know, with all my love, hope this book does great, really proud of you, said all these nice things and...
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So my day, the day that he passed, he passed and I formed my day started with my agent called me emotional in the morning. First thing like seven, eight o'clock. And I, I realized when the phone rang, was like, Ooh, that's not going to be good news. But I figured it was like related, anything but that. You know what I mean? Like I got some hard news for you. And I said, and he said Nelson DeMille died and man, that one hurt. And then I, I sent his note, his son, was
also his co-author, wonderful man, just like his dad. But I sent him a note and it wasn't until later, I realized I, I think the last book he might've endorsed and read is Monarch. And the weight of that, it still gets to me, man. So I agree with you now that I think about it, if I could bring anyone back, I had the best talks with Nelson in the mill. He's every, he was everything you want him to be.
Everything. He was John Corey. You would talk to him, but you would hear John Corey. I once said to him, Nelson, how much of the sarcasm in your books is, is fake and how much of it's you? And he goes, well, if you ask my ex-wives, probably too much of it's me, you know? And he would just laugh. This infectious laugh. He loved that fun. He was very courageous and, what, what a blow to the, to the thriller world and community, man, may he rest in peace. Indeed. And you know what you have, you've been blessed with rarefied air, bro.
I mean, he was someone that I really wanted and I don't even, I think because I had read his earlier work and he was one those guys I just wanted to speak to and then the moment passed and I had wanted to follow up a, anyway, my point is folks grab it while you got it. Live in the moment, embrace the moment. It's funny, if I can share this, yesterday morning at 9 a.m. I went to my urologist and I had been now,
Given the thumbs up of undetectable cancer free. yeah. So these past months have been really, really grueling. And which is why, I've been taking some time here and there, but, the word, when you said chemo, it triggered my head because we were talking, he said, you know, if you, if it had gone one step further, we would have been talking about chemo and you know, chemo is not.
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (01:14:46.126)
That ain't fun and there's a lot of people who just don't come out of that. So, well, rest in peace to Nelson. Well, listen, man, we're glad that you're healthy. You look great. Thank you.
Thank you. I think the recovery was the uptick in burgers you were eating lately. just my, just my opinion. it's, it's funny because I'm over here, like I'm on a new, like I I'm eating not, not even to lose weight, just for like health benefits and longterm allergies and all that. And I'm eating all this stuff now that sucks. And you know, David's sending me texts of his burgers and this and that, and about eight, my iPhone the other day when you sent me one, like it's, it's been rough for me. Okay. So
Well, the fun thing folks is we have this running joke that his favorite pastime is devouring pop tarts. while I was a big fan of pop tarts, you know, he asked and other people have asked, how do you look this good and this fit at 65? I said, well, it's not by eating pop tarts and burgers. However, it's all, you have to just moderate, dude. That's all it's grass fed and it's, it's organic.
Those little tiny differences make all the difference in the world. You look great by the way. Pop tarts were healthy. We'd be doing the show today and you'd be saying to me, Ryan, you look, you look too healthy. You are, you are way too thin. I'm worried, man. You gotta eat something else. Like I promise you, if pop tarts were good for you, I'd be the fittest man in the world. That's my weakness. That's my weak spot. is man. It's rough. I'm
But I'm thrilled for you. I'm glad you're doing well, And shout out to Nelson's children, especially Alex Demille and our best to you guys. Dave, tell me about your goals, 25 and beyond. What do you want next? Like what are you shooting for now? Well, number one goal is to take this show. No, this number two goal is to take this show to the next level, which comes in 25. And I think I have something.
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that's going to set it apart even further. can't really talk about it right now because it's too preliminary, but let's just say it's taking, like when you see that in-person stuff, which is my favorite way, I mean, this is good because it's very fast and tangible, but ask anybody who has sat down in my living room, there's nothing like breathing the same air and then going to get grub afterwards or before.
taking this show to the next level, it will be a little bit wider and deeper probably. But my number one goal is I have two things. Number one is I've got this non-fiction book that I'm working on that's about my prostate cancer journey. And I've talked to several people about it. I've even mentioned it to you in passing. And I just think, I think it would be a great opportunity for somebody to
who was either facing it or had a family member face in it, or maybe even is a wife of a guy who's facing it. But a real, true, in the trenches story, there's enough science in there that you're gonna learn the mechanics of it. But I'm telling the story through, here's what it looks like on a day-to-day basis. And here's the things that you have to be thinking about and prepared for. And I try to interject it with humor.
And so that book, that is my number one goal for 2025. And I'd love to see that come out sooner than later. And then the second part of that is I am working on an actual fiction book that is near and dear to me that I've been mulling over in my head for months and months and months. And I'd like to see that come out mid to late 2025. So I got those three big things stacked. Nice. And I'm very excited about all three.
You should be, You know what's great? A lot of people, I don't think they know this about you. You're brilliant. You are super smart. I can text you or call you something and you know so many things about so many things. Before the show started today, I told David, man, my identity got stolen yesterday. And I didn't realize all of what that meant until yesterday when we found this out. And I was like, had to go to all the credit bureaus. By the way, there's three of them. He's like,
The Thriller Zone with David Temple (01:19:09.71)
And I'm like, okay. All right. Mr. Know-it-all. I didn't know that. I didn't have a clue. I literally said to the guy, he's like, you got to call all the credit bureaus. I'm like, how many are there? And he's like three. And I was like, okay. I didn't know. And he talked to me like I was the world's biggest idiot. and I said, I want, all I know is books, man. All I don't know much beyond that books and sports. That's about it. It's all I got. but you're also hilarious. Like you're so funny and your platform doesn't always allow for you.
to show that because you're talking books and you're in this professional setting and, you are one of the funniest dudes that I know. Thank you. You are, for sure. I think maybe you're going to see more of that in this 2025 expedition that I'm chartering. So I'm trying to let the seams out a little bit.
What I love about, another reason that I picked you is I know that we have a great way to banter back and forth and you ask great questions. That's one thing I miss a little bit about doing these interviews is I'm so, I'm so set on making sure that my guest is highlighted and I'm hitting all the points and I'm talking about your book and I'm learning about you. And sometimes I go, I wish somebody had asked some questions about me, but I realized it's not really about me. So.
Next year, which is just months away, we're hoping to let the seams out. So thank you for saying those very nice words. I appreciate that. It's true. It's true. It's true. I'm looking forward. I'm looking forward to 25. Yeah, me too. What else can I do for you? I don't know, man. So you've taught me a little bit about credit bureaus. I have that whole thing. I really sincerely do. 25. Listen, I got a big 25 coming up too. I'm pumped as well. 10 year.
Anniversary for the books, but I three books out next year man three, but yeah, let's let's break that down real quick We got Hawk We got more red Yeah, and we got So it's a first book in a new series with my buddy Simon Gervais. I've called the second one comes out I think November of next year Wow So it's gonna be a busy year Yes, I got monarch so it's gonna be monarch Ted Bell's monarch March 25th 2025
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June 17th is my fourth read novel, Dawn's Dark. And then it's gonna be, I think, November 1st, right around the start of November, is The Second Son by Simon Gervais and myself. Really excited about that book. Because it's very different than anything he's done or that I've done. I think our readers are gonna be surprised. And there's some twists in there that I think it takes two writers to pull off. Well.
I've now had a chance to meet several duo writing teams on the show and I'm always fascinated by this and I'm gonna ask you this. How does the process go? Okay, like for instance, we're gonna call the book, The Second Son. Does Simon come up with the seed of the idea or do you or do you guys, hey, let's banter this back and forth and you come up with the seed and then you.
You take off and you ride and then you take it away and then he takes over. How does that work? Yeah, it's so crazy because I don't think either one of us thought we were going to do this together. So we were just catching up on a zoom call one day and I'm throwing around this idea that I have and he's like, huh, he really liked it. And I was like, I just don't think I have time for that because I've not got the hawk stuff. I've got the red stuff. And so we ended up talking a few weeks later and it came up and he was like, you know, I'm interested. Like we, this is something we should do together.
And I said, okay. and he was like, I think we can get a book deal for this. So I was like, listen, we get a book deal. I'm for, you know, I'm for sure in. So our agents get together and it's like, here's what we need. And, he and I went back and forth. We really share the load on that. So I don't know how it works for everybody. I think everyone's different, but we really share the load in terms of 50 50, you know, story construction characters. But what's, what's neat about that is
when we signed the book deal, we both kind of looked at it. It does not sound like one of my books. It does not sound like Simon Gervais books. It really took on this third voice and I really like it. Like I thought it was just really good. So when I write something, he will change it, make it better. When he writes something, I will change it, make it better. And you end up with this third voice that just really, really work. And so I'm very excited about it. All right. Well, that doesn't tell me.
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It gives me an idea. Like I was talking to Andrews Wilson, right? So Brian and Jeff work very close and they have multitude of projects going at a time, which is mind numbing for me. But they work on it. They hand it off. He works on it, hands it back. He works on it, hands it back. And that to me is, I may try it one day, but boy, does sound, listen, just.
First of all, kudos to you. can't wait to great writers. Simon's a sweetheart of a guy. You're a sweetheart. And I mean, it's going to be November. So I've got to wait a whole year now. I know, man. But the good news is you can, you can read Monarch and Gone Dark before that. So it's going to, it's going to be a big year. Also, like I said, bookspies turning 10. So I'm doing some new things that we'll be announcing into the next, into the new year. Yeah, man.
I'm ready to go for 25. Isn't it funny that you and I both have these two big announcements that we can't talk about and I'm so tempted to talk about it, but I haven't secured all of my funding yet and I'm still working on agree. What do you call them? Kind of NDAs and so forth from people who will agree to play ball. I do have this one question and it's tongue in cheek.
because I was chatting with my buddy, our mutual friend, Taylor Moore, his show will drop in a couple of weeks. And I said, because I knew Inside Scoop, so if I broke any rules here, forgive me in advance, but I said, hey, Taylor, is it true that you and Ryan Stack kind of come up with similar titles to books, almost simultaneously unbeknownst to one another and then have to fight over who keeps it?
He's won every fight. yeah, definitely Taylor. Yeah. Because I always get to them later. Taylor nails them. And then I have like this great idea for title and it's either one he's already got or it's very close. So I always end up, I can never go with the title that I really want. I've got to change it. Like it happened again with gone dark. I was going to call it, cold trailing. So cold trail, a cold trail comes out, is out, but his show will drop in a couple of weeks. But dude, that's such a good book.
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Yeah. Let me just say something to your listeners and to your viewers. Please go read that book. Taylor's a good friend of mine. The guy is such a talent. I mean, I, I absolutely love his style. Like I really love his stuff. He's so talented. Hey, since I'm doing this now, this show drops, after the, the next one I'm going to pimp here, but Rio yours, the bang bang sisters. Yeah. This book is like, you're watching a Quentin Tarantino movie.
It's so good. Agreed. Yeah. Yep. Agreed. and then of course, I don't, haven't even, I haven't even talked about Beirut yet. Targeted Beirut. mean, Jack Carr is all over the press. know we're flashing our mutual. I I just got my box. didn't even open it yet. By the way, inside scoop, the book looks exactly like the box. I know. It's just like a huge version. I know. but what I would say is if you're on the fence about nonfiction versus fiction,
This feels like something Jack Carr would write. Like it's very, he's teaching you for sure, but he's entertaining you as you go. I promise you that. So, I absolutely love this. It's right there with like, love nonfiction stuff from my buddy, Brad Meltzer. I would, I would say it's sort of right in that category. So if you like his, his nonfiction stuff, you've got to go get targeted by Root Jack Carr. And we're going to stop there because, we've given Jack Carr more time on the show.
than our own books. And he doesn't need the help. All right, I'm trying to think of, you know, one thing we're going to hear more of in my new year is I'm going to bring in more people. This is one thing I can share with you. You know, I love me some thrillers, mystery, suspense, you know that. But you know, I'm a big nonfiction fan. So I've got this idea that I've been toying with and I'm going to finally break it out this.
in the coming months, Nonfiction Fridays. So that way something like Targeted Beirut can drop from a guy that we already know and we can talk about that, but then we can talk about other genres that are nonfiction. Also, we're gonna let the seams out a little bit more and talk about the business of the thriller writing. Agents, publishers, editors, marketers,
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Etc. So that we can get a bigger, broader scope of how this system, this business works. Because as the big five continue to shrink, self publishing does its thing. Thomas and Mercer, AKA Amazon continues to become the behemoth that it is and will continue to grow. You got a lot of choices out there and we want you to make the best informed decisions. there should be more people doing shows like that.
Because I think a lot of people, when they write their first book, they have no idea. You know, they go online and they're like, find out, I have to query this thing. And they don't really understand what that means and how competitive it is. The fact that some agents are getting 20 or more thousand queries a year. By the way, when we get off the show, I am going to share with you, cause there's very few people I can do this. What is coming in 25. Cause you're going to go. I'm dying to know now. Like, I can't believe I don't already know. I'm going to let you in on it.
Folks, this has been really fun. think we've, have we covered pretty much everything we wanted to in 200 episodes? And we know about your world. It's your show, dude. I mean, you tell me. No, I, listen, I'm really proud that you've made it such an impact in 200 episodes. Cause you have, like I really consider you the voice of all things thriller. That's a great voice. All right. Let me end on this one. Okay. When you're in radio, when you make a living with your voice,
How do you protect it? What do you do? So like narrators, know, like people that they literally earn a living talking. How do you protect that? Well, there's a couple of things you outside of, I mean, you can get insurance to protect it, but here's a couple of things. I don't smoke anymore. I smoked for years way back in the day. Stupidest thing you could ever do in your entire life is smoke. So just stop that. But maybe that's where you get a little bit of that base in your voice from, this, this voice was the same voice at 15.
I thought you were going say five, and I was say that's terrifying. No, it changed somewhere around 14 and 15, and it pretty much went to the basement soon thereafter. I don't like to go to bars or concerts and try to carry on a conversation because you have to yell and there's a lot of damage that happens there, especially as you get older. I don't do that. So I don't yell, I don't scream. Whispering is not really great for you either, oddly enough. think, I should never have known that. It's harder.
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you takes more muscles to whisper than it does to yell. and just stay away from like, everyone loves a neat Scotch every once in a while. Blue moon, you know, I know friends, a lot of writers like to light up a big fat Cohiba and then a single malt. Those days are behind me because you talking about destroying your vocal cords, it's cigars and it's Scotch. mean, it's, it's tough.
Yeah, it sounds, makes your voice sound cool because you get a voice kind of like this. you doing? And Batman. Yeah. But yeah. Cool. That's it. Okay. All right. Lots of water. Lots of water. Lots of water. Pop tart here and there. Dude. I think I told, I think I told you as we finished this one last ramble, one of my weaknesses in life, and I don't, I don't think I told you this and I don't do it. I don't do it off of hardly pop tarts.
Microwave, mean, toaster, slime in the toaster, to where they just start to get soft. Forget about it. It's hard to beat, David. It is. I know, man. Trust me, I know. I know. Everything in moderation, Ryan. Yeah. So both in one pack. That's a, you know, that's a serving size. So that's my moderation when I'm eating Pop Tarts. And let me tell you what's going to kill me right now that I'm on this health kick because fall's coming in full swing.
And that means the limited apple crisp pop tarts are coming out and I don't I'm not confident I'm strong enough to avoid that for the whole season. So we'll see. I would do you guys have a store called Jimbo's? You ever heard of Jimbo's? No, Whole Foods. OK, Sprouts. This must be a West Coast thing. There's a lot of health food stores out here on every corner. Organic, etc. You can find some really good fakes like now.
I've never really been an ice cream fan, but some reason I got turned onto it this last summer and now I'm finding all this organic non dairy ice cream that you say you are insane, but you eat it and you, I promise you, you can't tell the difference. And that's all I'm going to say about that. Yeah. I don't trust people when they say that to me. I remember being at a restaurant one time and they served me a turkey burger and the waitress goes wanting to be able to tell the difference. Yeah. I got news for you, bud. I could immediately tell the difference. Okay.
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I knew that was not a real burger. The second it touched my lips, was like, Nope, it's not the real thing. So I don't trust people when they say, promise you can't even tell the difference. No, I can tell the difference, but if it's still good, I would be in, I would be in. Well, let's see. If you want to know more about Ryan Stead, go to the real books by.com. There you're to find about his books, people he's talking to people he's reading.
Of course you can go to thethrillerzone.com. I probably don't say that enough. You can find out who is on the show, who's coming up on the show. I'm actually taking a few notes from Ryan and I'm going to expand the website. So there's more. Actually, somebody said this to me recently, drive more traffic to the website and quit giving all the love to YouTube, et cetera, all the social and so forth. So I agree with that. I'm going to be making that change. for those who really love Thrillerzone.com. That's it. Dot com.
Congrats to you, my friend, episode 200. Man, I'm stoked for you. And here's to 200 more. Thank you, Ryan. by the way, as my closing comment, you asked me who's going to be, who's the longest show. I think you've just set the new record. I knew what I was doing. Yeah. To quote my sister. I was walking away with one record today, David. Come on. To quote my sister. Bye bye now. Peace out. Wait, are you still here?
Well, if you're still listening, you get to find out who he's on next week's show. That is, Ryan Coleman and his new book, Billy the Kid. I'm David Temple. I'll see you next time for another edition of The Thriller Zone. And cheers to 200 more, huh? Your front row seat to the best thrillers, The Thriller Zone.