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Is there a single right way to run a home care agency? We sure don’t think so. That’s why we’re interviewing home care leaders across the industry and asking them tough questions about the strategies, operations, and decisions behind their success. Join host Miriam Allred, veteran home care podcaster known for Home Care U and Vision: The Home Care Leaders’ Podcast, as she puts high-growth home care agencies under the microscope to see what works, what doesn’t, and why. Get ready to listen, learn, and build the winning formula for your own success. In the Home Care Strategy Lab, you are the scientist.
Miriam Allred (00:00)
Welcome to the Home Care Strategy Lab. I'm your host, Miriam Allred. It's great to be back with all of you this week. Today in the lab, I'm joined by Reggie Mackey, the president of LiveWell Home Care, headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas. For those of you that don't know Reggie, you are in for a treat. I got acquainted with him just a couple of weeks ago. Shout out to Amber Monroe for the personal introduction.
Um, she told me a couple of stats. I was like, I have to meet this guy and I have to meet this team. And so we're both here in Fort Worth. So I had the opportunity to go and sit with their office and pick their brains and unpack just an unheard of story, I think in home care. And I thought, wow, I'm dying to tell the industry about this guy and about this story. So just, just a couple of quick stats before we get into your story, Reggie, you are just 31 years old and you have built this home care business.
in just two and a half years and you guys are on track to do I think about 25 million in revenue this year, all organic growth, profitable since the beginning and about 98 % VA funded and you're already in 30 states and I'll just say it again, that's basically unheard of and that's why I had to go see for myself what you guys were up to and what secret sauce was brewing in that office because again, this is just phenomenal.
Reggie Mackey (01:00)
Yes, ma'am.
Right.
Miriam Allred (01:21)
Reggie, I am so excited for this conversation. Tell everyone a little bit about your personal background and who you are, and then we'll get into this business and what you're up to today and how things are running.
Reggie Mackey (01:34)
Yes, ma'am. Well, first off, thank you for inviting me. I feel honored and privileged. Definitely. I am I am punching up being on this podcast. Thank you so much for for allowing me to be on. promise everything that we are doing in terms of the growth is all legal. I promise I promise. But no, I grew up in Hobbs, New Mexico, which is a small town there in the eastern portion of New Mexico. Yes. Yeah. Representing us.
Miriam Allred (01:45)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Shout out to
Reggie Mackey (02:03)
You're Mexico native, you know what mean? There's not a lot of us running around that we
Miriam Allred (02:04)
all of the New Mexicans.
Reggie Mackey (02:08)
run into. So anytime I get a chance to shout out the land of enchantment, do. I met my wife early on in life.
⁓ And she's from the western part of state in Deming and we ended up kind of settling there in the Las Cruces area for quite some time and ⁓ started my career in ⁓ kind of home care, home health in a little town north of Las Cruces called T or C and worked in assisted living facility and skilled nursing, home health and hospice and had an opportunity to ⁓ get a call from a really good boss and mentor.
⁓ by the name of Eric and moved out to Midland, Midland Odessa area. And that's kind of where I started my official home care journey. And through a couple of years had an opportunity to promote and they were either smart enough or dumb enough to promote me. I don't know which one it is yet, but it worked out. And ⁓ I had the honor and privilege of eventually getting promoted to becoming a VP. And ⁓ then about three years ago, got the wild hair to say, ⁓
you know, hey, I think I might want to, you know, take this, this journey out on my own. And, you know, lo and behold, you know, thanks, thanks to God and, and a lot of great people were here today. So.
Miriam Allred (03:28)
what a great
story. Shout out to all the New Mexicans because you're right, there are not enough of us. You and I both being from there is amazing. ⁓ What a great journey. I don't think you shared some of the roles that you were in. Were you primarily on the sales side, business development, or just share your role path through those home health and hospice agencies?
Reggie Mackey (03:31)
Yeah, not a lot of it. We've got to stand up.
Absolutely. Yeah, started out when I went out to middle and started out as a branch manager, branch director. I think that's what we were calling ourselves back then. And, you know, had an opportunity to really, again, with a lot of great people, grow that branch pretty quickly. We quickly, you know, soon thereafter, quickly kind of expanded to San Angelo area. And I think, you know, had a chance to show them enough that I was, grow focused enough and probably to grow focused, but it ended up working out and had an opportunity
promote to become a regional director, moved out to Austin ⁓ at that time. And then that's really real, our expansion kinda started to explode. ⁓ And again, the company I was working for, AccentCare at that time. And we really begin to kinda start our PCS growth and throughout the state. ⁓ once that we got to certain amount of locations, we had a chance to become the area vice president for the state of Texas. And we continue to grow and
Like I said, after a while had that itch and said, all right, maybe it's time. So.
Miriam Allred (04:55)
Let's talk
about that itch because it is one thing to work at a very large, well-established company and be successful with a lot of resources and support. It's a totally other ball game to go out on your own and start from scratch and build something up. What gave you the confidence to say, think I can go out and do this? Was it the success? Was it numbers? What was it that gave you the confidence to do this?
Reggie Mackey (05:21)
Yeah, I think it comes down to two things for me, Miriam. First and foremost, I could have gone the rest of my life knowing I failed, like tried it and failed, or tried multiple times and failed multiple times. Like I can go to the grave saying I'm a failure. I wouldn't have never been able to go to the grave and say I didn't try. And so that urge, that drive, that tenacity to just say, okay, hey, you gotta give it a shot. What's the worst that can happen? ⁓ Was always in the back of
in
my mind. And so that's kind of what pushed and propelled me, you know, to, to, to do it. I think that the second thing was, is that I wanted to do home care different.
you know, I wanted to be able to invest in the people that were doing the home care. I think, and again, not speaking disparagingly about any organization. I think that you get to a size and a scale and ⁓ it starts becoming more about process in the machine as opposed to the people behind the gears turning that machine. And I said, Hey, if I ever get an opportunity to become privileged enough, to own my own organization, I'll never forget about the people behind the gears. And, and that's what allowed us to, to, kind of get things kickstarted.
sound.
Miriam Allred (06:30)
I love that. And we're going
to unpack that even more because that's a central theme to your success is customer service, both internally to your people and externally to the clients and the caregivers and the families as well. People are a big part of your success early on to go out on your own. You likely needed to build kind of a founding team, you know, that also had the itch that also grew that crazy hair. Like, let's do this together. Talk a little bit about.
finding and establishing that early team and who and what and kind of why of that team.
Reggie Mackey (07:01)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'd be remiss if I didn't do some shout outs. I know, Miriam, this is like a very serious platform, but I got to throw some. You know, maybe that's just the rural New Mexico in me. But, ⁓ you know, ⁓ when I started this out, you know, I knew that, I guess something that I learned early on Miriam is that people aren't loyal to companies, especially in home care. People are loyal to people who happen to work at home care companies. And that was something that
Miriam Allred (07:09)
Shout them out, shout them out.
Reggie Mackey (07:31)
stuck in my brain really early on. so I said, if I had a chance to start this, I'm going to go find those people that fit that community, that fit that market and everything else will figure itself out. And so, you know, I had some people that believed in me early on, Rebecca and Bob, ⁓ in, in, Midland. ⁓ they, they, I mean, ⁓ they, are some of the first people that I started home care with. If you let Bob tell the story, he taught me everything that I knew, ⁓ his head is already big enough. So we try to keep that under wraps, but you
Miriam Allred (07:58)
Yeah.
Reggie Mackey (08:01)
Bob and Rebecca so instrumental in helping this get started and then Deb and El Paso, you talk about just a person who embodies that community, embodies the culture out there. And so those were the foundational pieces. ⁓ then Tom, Lanny and Megan ⁓ helped us kind of just take this thing and absolutely propel it. ⁓ Tom, ⁓ he's the best man I know. He's our executive vice president and he keeps me on.
on track every single day when I want to go out the rails. But this team that we built, mean, they're just absolutely so incredible. those six men and ⁓ believed in me from the very beginning when this wasn't ⁓ as successful as it is now. And ⁓ it just championed me and pushed me on. And that's why every single day I wake up and I'm just so thankful that they believed in me. Not the other way around, but that they believed in me.
Miriam Allred (09:00)
And what it is today, isn't what you thought it was going to be day one. So what was your initial vision? Like dominate a market, and go hard in Texas. Like what was your initial vision? Because I want to paint that picture of what it is today is not what you originally thought.
Reggie Mackey (09:18)
No, no, I said, if I could just make a comparable salary to what I was making at the other place and not get divorced and not mortgage my house, it was a win. Yeah, I mean, like I did not have visions of grander in my head if you would have told me that it became this.
Miriam Allred (09:22)
Thanks.
Low bar.
Reggie Mackey (09:35)
I probably wouldn't have believed you anyway. ⁓ So, you know, to be honest with you, it was just that, I just wanted to make a decent living. I wanted to be able to do home care differently and not have my bags in the front of the house when I came home. So.
Miriam Allred (09:50)
So let's talk about what the very beginning looked like. Did you hire Tom and Megan day one or did you personally go out and get a couple of clients and caregivers to like start the journey on your own and then bring them in or what were those like first few months? How scrappy were they and who was on board and who kind of got brought in in those early days?
Reggie Mackey (10:12)
Yeah, exactly. We definitely couldn't afford anybody's salary, let alone my own. And so we were all working for free, you know, and started out with Bob and Rebecca and Deb. And I just remember, just lots of long nights and lots of weekends and just promising that, guys, in the event that this thing ever becomes profitable, I promise I'll pay you back. But right now we're maxed out. So I can't, ⁓ you know, I remember.
Miriam Allred (10:36)
Yeah.
Reggie Mackey (10:42)
having multiple conversations with Rebecca at the time and just saying, man, I really pray to God that we get paid here pretty soon because we can't keep this up much longer. But yeah, I mean, in those early months, was literally all of us just working after hours, starting this out as basic and draconian as possible. I'm talking spreadsheets. ⁓
most watered down EMR platform that we could get that was legal and allowed us to be able to bill accurately. And that's it. I mean, we were staffing and recruiting on the fly. And then quickly afterwards, thankfully, it started rolling and there wasn't as much pressure after a while.
Miriam Allred (11:28)
Yeah,
so unpack that a little bit more. started the first, the headquarters is in Fort Worth. Is that the market that you started in? And how did the momentum start to pick up? Like how did you get those first few clients? Then did those first few clients refer your next few clients or just kind of like how did the momentum start to shift in those first few months?
Reggie Mackey (11:49)
Yeah, very familiar market for us in West Texas. You know, it's kind of where I started my career. And so, we had the opportunity to, to go into a market that we knew and loved. Bob was already there and helped us kind of get kickstarted. He had been out of the industry for a little bit. And, shamed him to come back into it and take one more ride in home care. And yeah, and just, through that word of mouth and knowing what we
that kind of accomplished in the past. You know, people were excited about what it is that we were doing and how we wanted to go about doing it. And I think, like you said, organically, when you have good people, people are loyal to people. They're not loyal to entities, and as that word spread about what we were trying to do and how we were trying to go about doing it, that just kind of started that steamroll of success. And ⁓ like I said, because we had all been, ⁓ fairly intertwined into that, Midland, San Angel, El Paso market, it just made the most sense.
We knew the community, we knew the people, we knew the business, and it really kickstarted things there.
Miriam Allred (12:49)
And was
the focus VA from day one? Did you all have your sights set on being fully focused on VA or did that thinking evolve as well?
Reggie Mackey (12:59)
No, I mean, we wanted to be fully VA focused. ⁓ And the reason is, is because, we've seen, a lot of organizations in the past, essentially kind of focus on other business lines. And because if they focus on other business lines, not to say that you can't focus on multiple business lines, it kind of takes your focus off of being able to be, you know, elite at one thing, especially early on. ⁓ it allowed us to be able to kind of keep our cashflow in a really good spot. we felt really
confident and comfortable about the margins, but we felt confident and comfortable with the volume and the people and how we staffed it, the relationships and the referral sources. And that's what allowed us to really be able to kind of catapult our success ⁓ is because that, again, it was a market that we knew, it was referral sources that we knew, and it was staffing that was significantly different than private pay or Medicaid. And that allowed us to be able to stay nimble and flexible as we grew.
Miriam Allred (13:56)
Were those VA relationships obviously established, which made it probably easier to get your foot in the door and get going pretty quickly? Were you the primary point of contact for those relationships or was it Tom or Megan or who had that foundation of those relationships that helped you get going?
Reggie Mackey (13:59)
this.
as we got started off, Bob and Rebecca and Deb that helped us kind of, ⁓ kickstart things off. And we feel pretty confident about our formula, that when we go into markets, ⁓ that we try to, we try to actually be a partner to the referral sources. And I know that sounds like cliche, but it's very rarely done, meaning we are there to take your most challenging clients and we are there to take your easy clients in every
in any and everybody in between, but we are there to be a partner to you. We are there to make your life and your job easier. Right. And, and, that's what we've done. And that's how we built those relationships and establish those relationships is by doing that. And, know, you got to have people in those communities that understand those market and understand those people. As you know, Miriam no, no one's going to tell you Northern New Mexico better than the Northern New Mexican, right? You know I mean? Or, you know, Southern New Mexican better than like, so it's just when you have those people that
understand those areas and have those relationships. In this case, Bob and Rebecca and Deb, as we got things kickstarted, ⁓ they really allowed us to be able to, kind of put our, our success on steroids because of the relationships that they have.
Miriam Allred (15:28)
and you're kind
of alluding to this, but your focus then and now has been more the VA clients in those rural markets, which is pretty niche and there's clearly demand there. ⁓ And that was your focus of, like you just said, we know Northern New Mexico, unlike other people, we know VA, we know home care, like we are the experts in this niche, send your clients to us.
And you said this to me several times, you actually approach them and say, Hey, give us your hardest client. Give us the client that other agencies can't staff and can't work with long-term. Like explain a little bit behind that thinking, like proving your value to these people so that they do send you more referrals.
Reggie Mackey (16:11)
Yeah, absolutely. you got a lot of these home care organizations, they go in there, they look at the major metropolitan areas and they say, if I can get one or two or three or 4 % market penetration, excuse me, in a place like Dallas, in a place like Fort Worth, we'll be trillionaires. And maybe that is the case, but the fact of the matter is that there's 17 trillion agencies in that town doing the same exact thing. And so what are you going to do that's going to differentiate yourself from the person down the street?
Right. ⁓ whereas there's so many communities, right? Not only just in Texas and New Mexico and, but other places that are starving for other agencies to come in there and do a great job. Right. And it may not be that they don't have other agencies there, but maybe they don't have other agencies there that are willing to do what we're willing to do. And so when we go to some of these, ⁓ VA, you know, case managers are into some of these new markets, we tell them, Hey, and it sounds joking, but we're serious. Give us your veteran.
who
is, in a, unfortunately, maybe I've fallen on tough times and is in a one by one trailer with 27 dogs in the, middle of, uh, West Texas, uh, in the summertime, but no air conditioner. And we'll go and service that person. And we're going to give that person the utmost level of care. And we'll also take the person who lives smack dab in the middle of town with a white picket fence and, know, the, the pictures of his grandchildren on the mantle. Right. And because that we've done that and because that we've told
them, Hey, we'll take your challenging clients, the people that, again, have maybe had behavioral issues or maybe their level of care and acuity is really high. ⁓ or again, those behavioral issues, we will take those people just as much or just as often or as willing to do that as, know, again, you're, kind of run of the mill referral. And when you do that you build those relationships with them and show them that, Hey, you're really there to make an impact in the community. Like I'm genuinely here to help you. That changes something. You're not just another Joe Schmo.
coming in asking for business. But when you take a client that's two and a half hours away from the largest Metro there, and that larger Metro has really only got 30,000 people. So it's really not that big in the first place. That shows you're willing to go above and beyond. And that stands out with the VA.
Miriam Allred (18:19)
Absolutely. It's one thing to say that you can make things happen with that client. It's another thing to deliver on that. So I'm sure a lot of people are thinking like, what about the staffing? What about the recruiting? Because that client needs a certain type of caregiver and a certain type of schedule. So we'll get to the recruiting in a second. I want to put a plug in here because we're to come back to that. I want to, I want to kind of keep dialing through the story though. So how
How big did you guys get in kind of the first three to six months to set the stage for then going out of state? Because I want to kind of tell the story of like how you went out of state and what that looked like. But how big did you get in kind of like a certain market before you guys said to yourselves like, Whoa, I think we can go out and do this in other states.
Reggie Mackey (19:03)
Yeah, that's an interesting question. So when we started,
a whopping $1,700 in revenue at the end of the year. so that's when you talk about that high stress level, that's that high stress level. ⁓ And then in January, it ramped up, I think we did like 12,000 in January and then in February of 23, think we did like 32,000 and then it just expedited. And so in that first six months, I think that we did roughly about...
Miriam Allred (19:21)
Yeah.
Reggie Mackey (19:38)
you know, including that December, I think we probably did about $900,000 or so in revenue. ⁓ Maybe just a little under a million.
And then in the back half of that, and I'll kind of get to that kind of kickoff and growth on the back half of that year of 23, we did 4.5. So that's how we got over 5 million. And a big bulk of that was kind of the steamroll at the end. Once that we really got an opportunity to see, okay, hey, our model, our thought process about, taking on these challenging clients and partnering with the VA in a different way works in, you know, Midland and St. Angelo and El Paso. I wonder if it would work in Los
Cruces, New Mexico. And that's where we went to next. And so we started out in Las Cruces and said the same exact thing. Went to the VA, approached them the same way and said, Hey, how do we become a partner with you guys here and taking on these challenging folks in, in Riedoso or in Socorro or, in Silver City. And we did that and that began to steam roll and we said, okay, all right, well, maybe we're onto something here. And ⁓ so at that point in time, one of the things I think we'll like with you
we said, we'll get into Miriam is We don't complicate things around here. We don't have 75 meetings to have 75 meetings to have 75 meetings about what we're gonna do. It's just if we can do it and if it's feasible, we're gonna do it. And so we said, okay, well, where can we go to where we think that we can...
⁓ know, run an efficient business and there's a need. And ⁓ we were talking to Megan at the time and if you ever let Megan get going, my God, she habits overseas, you know what I mean? And technically does now, you know I mean? ⁓ So she said, hey, I've been calling around and Alaska has a big need. And so we said, you're kidding. We jumped on a flight, literally went up to the Anchorage, met with the Anchorage VA. They were so kind to us. ⁓
Miriam Allred (21:10)
Yeah.
Reggie Mackey (21:32)
to allow us to be able to come there. And we wanted to get a sense of the community. Like if we were going to do business here, we wanted to understand like, what are we asking our branch managers to do? What are we asking our field staff to do? And so we drove from Anchorage to Fairbanks to Toke and Kenai, Alaska, and literally drove the whole state. You know, we didn't drive all of it. It's too big to drive in a week, but we tried to do our best. A lot of sleeplessness, you know, on that trip. But
Miriam Allred (21:54)
Yeah.
Reggie Mackey (22:00)
That's what allowed us to be able to grow and expand is we went into Alaska, we went into Montana, we went into these rural areas where they need the help. ⁓ And that's what allowed us to be able to catapult towards the back end of that year. And then we just continued that same formula. ⁓ Idaho, West Virginia, ⁓ some of these other places that we've been able to kind of grow and expand.
Miriam Allred (22:21)
I can't even like comprehend this honestly. So you like you dominate Texas and you're like, okay, let's go next door to New Mexico. We've got the model. We've like ironed out the kinks. The VA knows us. They trust us. Let's go duplicate in New Mexico. And then Megan's over here like, I'm just going to like call the VA and all these rural states and see what they tell me. And then you guys are literally like, let's just go to Alaska. Like why, like let's not mess around. Like let's just get up there. And then again, you just
proved yourselves to the VA. You built that relationship, you took their hard clients, you proved yourself, and then it was just like wash, rinse, repeat in all of these rural markets. What were some of the initial surprises? Was Alaska very different than Texas and New Mexico? Were there things that surprised you or was it surprisingly similar? Was it like, ⁓
It's lot of similarities. That's why we can do this. What were the surprises in those early moments?
Reggie Mackey (23:21)
Yeah, I think that the surprise is the similarity, right? That you go into some of these markets and...
What we kind of found out, and, again, never wanting to speak disparagingly about other people was, that, you know, you go into some of these places and, and, ⁓ there are businesses that have won there and that have done well there, not because that maybe they're necessarily hungry anymore to help, but because that they exist. And, and, and we said, okay, well, you know, yes, we, we will, take anybody, you know, in your major Metro, but like, we're willing to go outside of that. And, and we.
were shocked at how little they had ever heard that. And I think that that was the surprising thing is why is no one really wanting to go above and beyond? ⁓ I don't care what anybody has to say, Miriam, all of these healthcare companies, they're doing extremely well for themselves, you know what I mean. And so what are you doing that you can't get out there? Because everybody sees the same bill rate, everybody sees the same margin. And if we can do it, then I'm sure
some of these larger organizations or not even larger, smaller organizations, it doesn't matter. Why are you guys not trying to go above and beyond? And we just tried to say, okay, well, hey, if they're not doing it, we'll happily do it. And that's what allowed us to be able to kind of expand as quickly. So that was the shocking part is that it seemed like it was like... ⁓
like the first time they had ever heard that before. And so it's like, it's not complex. know what mean? It's just hard to do, you know? And that's what we've come to find out, Miriam is that home care is not complex. It's just hard to do. And people don't like to do hard stuff.
Miriam Allred (25:04)
Yeah, so, so interesting. Let's talk a little bit about like your business model because now you're to the size where you have a corporatized headquarters that owns a lot of the daily roles and responsibilities, but you're in 30 states, so you have to have people in all 30 of these states. So explain what ownership there is at corporate and then who you have out in these states and what their roles are out in those states.
Reggie Mackey (25:31)
Yeah, so we typically have only branch managers and field supervisors in our brick and mortar locations now. ⁓ And we wanted to kind of scale back down the responsibilities of our branch leaders to really being able to kind of focus on that customer service experience. ⁓ And we say customer service starts with our employees first and then our clients. So it's one A and one B. But you can't talk about great customer service to clients and patient outcomes and all that stuff if you treat your employees like trash.
So, you know it that that customer service starts with our caregivers and and our people in the back office first So we want our branch managers focusing on that making sure that again our caregivers have the support and and everything that they need as well as our field supervisor staff So they're focusing on the compliance ⁓ Back office operations that customer service experience and then what we've done is it is recently has is is centralized a lot of the hard stuff so the staffing and the
piece, which we know takes up a majority of the time for any home care agency, but it's the bread and butter. so because that we've centralized it and we can kind of control it a little bit better, ⁓ it has allowed us to be able to kind of expand and grow because, know, Hey, instead of having one staffer focused on one office as it scales, I can have that one staffer focusing on three or four offices as they scale. so it's allowed us to be able to stay invested in people. That's the thing for us, Miriam and work.
You know, we're not a tech company. We are in the people business. I have firmly committed in being in the people business. I know technology is coming for us all, but I am staying in the people lane. You just have to do it smarter. And so that was our way of betting on people and trying to do it smarter is having it more centralized, taking some of those back office operations. And that allows us to be able to have the people on the ground, focus on the things that matter the most. And we can kind of control that cost a little bit better.
Miriam Allred (27:08)
you
So what I think is interesting is this, way that you've positioned this branch manager, they are not doing the scheduling, the billing, the recruiting. They're not doing any of that. If I understand right, they're like FaceTime. They are with the clients FaceTime. They are with the employees giving FaceTime, supporting. Like their full focus is just making sure the people are happy and successful and thriving, right?
Reggie Mackey (27:30)
Thank you.
Sure. Crap.
Miriam Allred (27:56)
I think that's so interesting because there's other models out there. Like there's no one right way to do this, but there's other models out there where that branch manager is scheduling and recruiting and staffing. Like they're doing all of it because they know the people, but you've kind of flipped that script a little bit of no, they are exclusively focused on FaceTime and support and being with the people and then offload all of those responsibilities.
My question is who are these branch managers? Do they have home care experience? Did you kind of poach them from other businesses? How did you find them? Like who are these branch managers and how have you found them?
Reggie Mackey (28:34)
Yeah, so, you know.
the reason why we've done it that way is because we really wanted to make sure that we kind of tried to reduce the burnout. I tell people all the time, I've been a branch manager longer than I've been the president. So I resonate more with the branch manager than I do any C-suite guy or gal. I'm not a suit, you know what mean? So I feel more comfortable in the branch than I do in a boardroom. But the one thing that anybody who's ever sat in the staffing seat can tell you is that the quickest road to burnout is through recruits.
recruiting
and staffing, it just takes a chunk of flesh off of you. And if you are doing it at a high level and your branch is growing, it is all consuming. And so some of those things that are important to the community, to your clients and to your caregivers gets pushed to the wayside, which is that customer service, because you're so focused on just the recruiting and the staffing piece of things. ⁓
So what we've done is we have just tried to find really good people, And that's from any industry, right? We tried to be just like home care specific and kind of your classic, do they fit the checkbox, but.
What we found out is that we are asking people to come in here and be customer service agents, essentially, meaning this is your role and responsibility is to be a good advocate to our referral sources, to be a good advocate to our employees, and be a good advocate to our clients. If you can do those things, we can teach you anything else, but I can't teach you how to be a great people person. so that's really been our strategy, and we've had a ton of success with that, that if you've got a good pain tolerance, what do we say?
Miriam Allred (30:12)
Yeah.
Reggie Mackey (30:13)
aim threshold and you can roll with the punches, you'll be successful here.
Miriam Allred (30:17)
Because you all are focused on VA and that's a specific angle in and of itself, have you found branch managers that have a connection to the VA, have like a personal connection to veterans of any sort or not necessarily?
Reggie Mackey (30:33)
Yeah, we have. We have. We've had some branch managers still have a few, you know, our branch manager, Midland, a veteran of 10 years as well, too. So shout out to Danielle there in Midland. You know, and so we have seen that, people who have served ⁓ and are passionate or have members in their family who have served. ⁓ And I think it's, I think it does a little bit something different when it comes to taking care of somebody who have served this country. It's a little extra motivation.
that you know that they've given so much. So hey, why can't you go that extra mile? And so I think that everybody in our organization shares that same value that, hey, listen, again, every client is important, whether it's VA, Medicaid, private pay, everybody deserves the same amount of attention. But yeah, when you get that veteran on the line, it's like, okay, hey, let's go, we gotta pick it up. This is someone who deserves this care.
Miriam Allred (31:26)
Yeah, I completely agree. There's just that like special connection, that their heart may be in it in a different way if they have that personal connection. I'm curious how you structure compensation for those branch managers, because it's oftentimes easy to structure compensation when they're held accountable to scheduling and sales and growth. Like those are very easily to tie to revenue, but
these branch managers are very focused on experience, like delivering customer service and delivering an exceptional experience. So can you just explain are they salary? Is there commission? How do you bonus them? And then how do you keep them focused on growth as well?
Reggie Mackey (32:06)
Yeah, so for us, we bonus out our branch managers monthly. They are salaries, so all of our branch manager salary positions. ⁓ But we wanted to make it not all just financially based. So they don't have all financial goals. They actually have four different categories. Two of them are financial, two of them are more customer service experiences, right? So how are your clients experiencing you and how are your caregivers experiencing you? And then we kind of have a toggle, which is the fifth one, that's compliance, right? ⁓
Well, no, mean, if you don't run a compliant business, you won't have a business very long. So, but we really tried to incentivize them that, hey, listen, it's not an all or nothing, meaning, hey, you can miss some of your financial goals, but if you're doing a really good job of taking care of the people, you should still be rewarded for that. The other thing that we wanted to do is, and I know a lot of...
sometimes it can be a quarterly bonus. I've worked in that world where, it's supposed to be a quarterly bonus and you're happy if you get one of them, you know what mean? Cause it takes so long for you to get the payout. We were really, really conscientious and intentional about making sure, hey, now you're going to get this monthly. We want this to be something that's an incentive, not something that is a demoralizer for people. And, and like I said, we wanted to make sure that it was balanced because home care is balanced. No one gets paid on hopes and dreams and well wishes.
But at the same time, it starts with that customer service experience.
Miriam Allred (33:29)
Amazing. I think that's just so incredible that approach to these people and to these branch managers. ⁓ You all are big on partners and clearly the VA and those relationships has taken a lot of time to build and to build in so many different states. Another key part of this is the credentialing and the billing and the finances. And in order to scale this quickly, you know, I even asked you like how, like how
How do you manage the finances and the credentialing and how do you break into these states and get them up so quickly? getting into 30 states in two years, there are people that are waiting on credentialing for months. So it's like, how did you all do that? in bringing a lot of this to life in so many states.
Reggie Mackey (34:14)
Yeah, I tell people all the time, I probably never would have taken this step had I never had a chance to speak to Max at Paradigm. So shout out to those Paradigm guys and gals over there. You guys are awesome. But yeah, I mean, I knew or I felt, like I shouldn't say I knew, I felt like I had the chops. I felt like I at least had kind of the drive and the dedication to ⁓ do this. But I...
could not overcome in my brain kind of the contracting and credentialing hurdle. You know, it was just like, okay, yeah, I may be able to go and get the business. Yeah, I may be able to know the people, but how do you get past this just humongous hurdle? ⁓ And so when, when I spoke to those guys over there and I sat down with Max and he's like, yeah, we can absolutely get your credential. I said, hold on, wait, what time out, man? I said, what are you going to do? What now, man? Like he's like, yeah, we can get your credential. I said, okay, so yeah, sure. It's going to take you what?
Miriam Allred (35:02)
Yeah.
Reggie Mackey (35:10)
seven years to get this done. Essentially, mean, I'm being a hyperbolic, but like, how long is this going to take? He's like, yeah, man, we can probably get it done a couple of weeks a month. I said a couple of weeks a month. And so when he told me that, I mean, you want to talk about the entire trajectory of my life change really, because I said, okay, all right, Reggie, you can figure out the rest of this stuff. You know, this business.
If I can just get this part of it done, I feel confident that I can do that. so literally they helped us get through that contracting and credentialing phase. And I was able to kind of go through the licensure piece and literally from that first moment that I had a conversation with him, yeah, think it was September, August ⁓ and November, we were done and ready to go. In December, we were taking our first client. so ⁓ in that little short amount of time, just partnering with them helped us continue to grow.
⁓ And as we kind of got an opportunity to get more engaged, with the VA system and kind of understanding the contracting and credentialing face, we just sat back and said, okay, hey, can we pour gasoline on this fire and just keep it going? And Megan and her tenacity and the sales team really just pushing these areas and going in there and saying, hey, you know, we've identified a need here. What do we have to do to get this across the finish line? ⁓ And that, that tenacity and that pace and that push, really helped
kind of catapult and propel us to getting those contracts completed in a much more timely manner. but yeah, definitely wouldn't have started without that first contract from Paradigm.
Miriam Allred (36:41)
Has the success been the same in most states where we're talking several weeks to a couple of months to get credentialed and stood up in all of these states or has that not been the case in certain states?
Reggie Mackey (36:54)
Not all of them.
So I would say there have been a few, unfortunately, that have taken a little bit longer, particularly those ones that are licensed, right? Just because there's an extra hurdle of getting through that, through that piece of things. The unlicensed states, again, significantly less complicated to kind of get into. But the one thing that I can tell you that really helps is when you go in there and you kind of make that partnership with the VA, it really helps those things move along quickly.
Again, they have a ton of people helping in those metropolitan inner city areas, right? But where they need those helps and where they can kind of help push things along a little bit is in those rural areas. And that's where we really tried to kind of go to bat. And that's what I think has personally allowed us to be able to get things done a little bit quicker is our willingness to go into some of those places that are underserved.
Miriam Allred (37:45)
And the other factor that we haven't talked about that you're absolutely thinking about is margin. The VA is not held equal in every single state. So you're looking at rural markets that need service, but then probably second to that, or maybe even before that is margin, right? Megan's, team is looking at the margin of all these states and you're going to go after the states that make the most financial sense that also have the rural markets. Is that right?
Reggie Mackey (38:08)
what we did, Miriam is literally took a, ⁓ a, a, a, a spreadsheet, a document and say, okay, let's look at margin and then let's look. Well, first off, we looked at what's unlicensed because that was going to be the, the,
least barrier of entry, to be able to enter. And then we looked at margin and then we literally just attacked it that way because we felt confident even if it wasn't the greatest margin state, if we can get the volume and we can be a benefit to the community, we'll still do well there. And we have, we've done well in some areas and like, for example, in Vermont, New Hampshire, they don't have the same ⁓ margin as a place like Texas and New Mexico, but the need is still there. Right. And so it's just taking the same business
Miriam Allred (38:22)
fastest.
Reggie Mackey (38:51)
strategy,
do you have to make a few adjustments? Sure. Um, you have to be a little bit more cognizant and aware of what it is that you're spending there. Sure. But the work is still the same and the impact is still the same. And so I think that that's what's allowed us to be as successful in the state that doesn't have the same margin as, as, as well as, as the ones that do, uh, and maybe even much more so, because I think that, listen, Miriam, it's, it's not a secret. They post the rates, right? You know what mean? Everybody knows the same, you know, the same States and everybody's flocking in and do that. And so,
So we said, okay, well, hey, while everybody's flocking in to do that, sure, does it make sense for us to try to go there and try to win in those markets as well too? Absolutely. But these forgotten markets, right, they still have people there that need the help and need the service. And as long as we feel like we can get enough volume there, we're going to go and try to win there too.
Miriam Allred (39:38)
I just want to repeat all organic growth, no acquisition. You guys attacked each of these markets completely organically and profitably. You haven't taken a dime from anyone, correct? No debt in the business, all profitable. Now, share just some numbers of the size today, 30 states, 30 offices.
Reggie Mackey (39:51)
No, no debt in the business. No debt in the business. No debt in the business. No.
Miriam Allred (40:05)
How big is your corporate team about how many clients, how many caregivers? Where are you guys at today?
Reggie Mackey (40:09)
Yeah, so right now we've got about 1300 employees right now, thousand clients or so. Like what you said, hopefully we'll get over that $25 million. Maybe even that 30, that's what we're shooting for. That's kind of the quiet goal. In the back of everybody's mind is 31, 32, but we'll be okay at that 25. But I think that we've got enough juice still left to get over that. But yeah, mean,
scaled considerably since then to that size ⁓ that we're at now.
Miriam Allred (40:46)
And
the corporate team, like how many people are there about in the corporate office?
Reggie Mackey (40:51)
Yeah, so because that we do a lot of our staffing and recruiting from our staff well entity up, I'll probably about nine or 10 folks, kind of doing that right now. But in terms of our executive leadership team, we probably have about eight or nine of us ⁓ in there now. So ⁓ managing a lot with a pretty lean team. ⁓
Miriam Allred (41:14)
That's, that's
what I thought when I went to your office, like phenomenal people, like the, the cream of the crop team, surprisingly lean is kind of what I thought, like, wait, there's definitely room for more. But, but your philosophy is like, let's not overcomplicate it. Like let's, let's keep it simple. Let's keep it lean, like very intentionally, which leads me to where I kind of want to take this next part of the conversation is like,
you believe home care is boiled down to three core functions, recruiting, staffing, and customer service. You explained this to me. There's a lot of businesses out there, there's a lot of business models, there's a lot of great people in home care, but we're over-complicating it. A big part of your success the last two and a half years has been keeping it simple, focusing and mastering these three areas of the business.
So I want to ask a couple of questions about each, because I'm curious about your philosophy around these things. So let's start with recruitment. Recruiting is a beast in home care. We all know that. But you aren't just recruiting in mass metros where there is a lot of supply. You're the hardest in these rural markets where it's hard to anybody to staff any business, let alone home care. So tell us a little bit about your philosophy behind recruiting.
And then I want to get into just like some of the like strategies, tactics of like recruiting in these rural markets. So start with just like high level philosophy. Like what do you believe you wanted to do home care differently? Like that starts with recruiting, like what are you doing differently in recruiting?
Reggie Mackey (42:49)
For sure, for sure. Well, thank you, Miriam. I'm glad that you said it. so that way I can go off of it now, but ⁓ yeah, I think people make this business way too.
It's home care, it's just taking care of people, right? It's a hard business to do. And again, it's hard to execute, ⁓ but not complex. And so on the recruiting front, it's a numbers game, right? And at the end of the day, you have to have the team and you have to have people who are tenacious enough to get in front of as many people as they possibly can, right? I think that,
When people go and recruit in a rural area, they think of it as a one-to-one ratio, right? You know, okay, well, hey, I got to just call a couple of people and if I can just get one person in this town, then we're going to be successful. But if you've been in home care long enough to know, that's not how it works, right? You may need to call 25 people because of those 25 people, 10 of them will show up for the interview. Of those 10, five will actually show up to the office. Of those five, three will actually, kind of get through the orientation process and you'll be happy to get two of them to actually work.
right? And so if you go into it that with that mindset and understanding that it is a volume game, it is a number game, and that's kind of the ugly underbelly of home care Miriam is like, people don't like to hear that, but it's a numbers game when it comes to that. And this fact that you have to get in front of as many people as you possibly can. That's the first thing. The second thing is, is that in a lot of these, you know, in a lot of these markets, we have just gone there and said, Hey, we're going to try to be one of the higher paying people in this market, right?
even
if that means that it affects our margin for a little bit, right? We feel confident and comfortable enough to say that we'll try to make that up a volume if we can. ⁓ in some of these places, right? When, when you, know, you have to understand in home care, you're not competing with just the home care agency. You're competing with Walmart, you're competing with Subway, you're competing with Target, right? And most times those guys got better benefits and are dealing with less stress, right? Than what we're doing. So you have to compensate them. You have to give people something to come in.
work for, right? They don't know who you are yet, so you can't sell them your culture yet until they get a chance to see it and experience it, but you can try to give them some additional compensation. And so that's what we've tried to go and do is say, hey, if you want to be in healthcare, if you want to make an impact into people's lives, by God, we got a place for you and we're going to try to be one of the higher paying folks. And that's what we've been able to do. And so just some of your good old fashioned incentive based stuff when it comes to recruitment.
And that's what's allowed us to be able to be successful when it comes to the recruiting piece of things.
Miriam Allred (45:29)
It's good
to hear you say this because it's a lot of just like foundational principles, but that you have done really well and it works. My mind is like, where are the secrets? What are you doing that nobody else is doing? But it really just sounds like back to the fundamentals. You're just out there getting volume. Volume is just the reality in home care. Nobody has better.
better numbers, it's just straight, like a pure volume game. And then also just pay going out and speaking, putting kind of the money where your mouth is and getting these people started. And then, like you said, then they can experience the live well culture, the team, the processes, like the sustainability, and they can like buy into that over time. But really the pay speaks volumes at start. You're now of a size where you maybe can offer more benefits and incentives.
Reggie Mackey (46:03)
Exactly.
Miriam Allred (46:21)
Can you speak to that like what you offer and what they do seem to value most?
Reggie Mackey (46:26)
Yeah, mean, so now of course we had the full gambit, health insurance and 401Ks and
life insurances and all of those things. But I think that what people, at least from what we have kind of gotten an opportunity to see, I think that what a lot of our caregivers have valued the most is a lot of the communication and the interaction, right? Is that home care can be a very isolating business, you know? And so people typically, once you've built those relationships, and we are very cognizant about when we onboard our caregivers, we try to be in person. When we do trainings, if we can, we'll try to do those things in person, right? When we go out and...
and orientated caregiver, we wanna try to do some of those things in person, right? So I think that what has differentiated ourselves is that we're not just hiring you, here's a packet, and we'll talk to you never, right? We wanna stay engaged with you. We want to try to do everything that we possibly can to ensure that you are not on the island, you are not alone.
We're here to help you, anything from a big issue to small issue. And I think personally, that has meant more to them than any additional incentives that we can offer. And then I think that the appreciation, right? When we go back to those branch managers needing that and having the time to focus on those people, when a caregiver does something awesome, right? When we have a caregiver that ⁓ goes above and beyond, we're gonna absolutely do everything that we possibly can to show our gratitude.
and our love and appreciation for what it is that they've done.
Miriam Allred (47:56)
And this all comes
back to that branch manager. have a, they have personal relationships with these caregivers and with these clients and also the corporate team as well. Like I asked you and the team this when I was in your office, like how often are you guys talking to these people? Yes, you're in Texas and they're in Alaska and West Virginia, but you all have relationships with these people. The whole corporate team is also talking to caregivers.
Reggie Mackey (48:02)
exactly.
Miriam Allred (48:19)
regularly and building those relationships and just showing that level of support, especially you as president, CEO, like you're talking to these people and they know you, you're not kind of like tucked away behind a desk, not talking to them, but you're on the phone texting out in these markets regularly visiting people. They all have your cell phone number. Exactly. that just, level of personalization goes such a long way. ⁓ One last thing on just recruiting, your recruiting function,
Reggie Mackey (48:35)
They don't have my cell phone number, for sure.
Miriam Allred (48:48)
is in Texas. But finding people out in these rural markets is sometimes unconventional. Like someone that works at the local grocery store or library or bank, like these local, these rural markets operate differently. Not that they're not on LinkedIn or Indeed, but oftentimes they might be a little bit harder to find. How are you striking that balance? How are you recruiting these people that may not be as heavily involved online?
Reggie Mackey (49:17)
Yeah, I mean, and that's where that branch manager's expertise really comes in, right? And it kind of goes back to, again, you're not going to explain West Texas better than somebody who's lived in West Texas, right? You know, or whatever case.
So, that branch manager, we have had six great success at local churches. For example, in Alaska, in some of our extremely rural areas, we've had caregivers that we have found, again, going to a local church and handing out a good old fashioned paper ad, right, that has led us to be able to hire three or four caregivers in an area that, again, may only have, 1,500 people, if that, right? And so some of those still boots on the ground, going and putting up a flyer at the laundromat,
going up and putting up a flyer at the library, going and putting up a flyer at the local meeting, you know, the meeting spot for that town. That stuff still works, right? ⁓ And what you will learn very quickly is that in any small town, word travels fast, you know, in small towns. And so once that you hook on, you get a great caregiver there. They typically are your best referral sources for other caregivers, right? Hey, this company is paying us this. Hey, this company is treating me this way. Hey, I've been able to get this many hours with this.
organization, you might want to sign up with them. And I can't tell you how many referral sources from other caregivers that we've gotten in these small towns because of our boots on the ground effort where it's again, hey, we went to the local church, we went to the local meeting spot, we went to the local hangout spot and just recruited the old fashioned way.
Miriam Allred (50:45)
So it sounds like it's a balance of, the corporate team is playing the volume game. Like we've just got to get in front of as many people as we can in each of these states. But then they're really tight with the branch manager. Like, hey, we've got to do the local boots on the ground. And then both of those things come together. We find some right fit, awesome caregivers.
and then the momentum builds in the town because everybody knows everybody and then it just picks up steam from there. So, I love that. It's kind of like a multi-pronged approach with corporate and the branch manager working together. And then it all just kind of gels once you find those early caregivers. ⁓ Let's talk about staffing. Staffing is another core pillar of home care, but also a massive beast.
Reggie Mackey (51:20)
for sure.
yeah.
Miriam Allred (51:29)
My question is that I want to start with is does it get easier? Staffing in my mind is staffing, is staffing, is staffing, but I want to hear from your perspective, staffing 1,000 employees, 1,000 clients, does it get easier or is the Rubik's Cube the same day in and day out?
Reggie Mackey (51:50)
Nah, never gets easier. I
tell people the pain never goes away. You're just able to tolerate it a little bit better. ⁓
Miriam Allred (51:56)
Okay.
Reggie Mackey (51:59)
You know, we have a saying, Miriam and our organization, and we got hoodies and we got shirts and HR is probably just revolted at this. know, like they get onto me all the time about this, but it's staff or die. And I think you saw that in our corporate headquarters. It's a staff or die mentality ⁓ in a sense that, you know, when we bring people on, when we hire people on, we tell them that like there is no more important thing than staffing. Okay. And what I mean by
I I get really passionate about it because I hear these people in home care talking about again outcomes and this and that and the other. None of that stuff matters if you can't staff, right? Like you can't have a good outcome. You can't have a bad outcome. You can't have a, a subpar outcome. You can't have any outcome if you don't staff. It's an automatic fail. It's an automatic F like pack up your backpack and go down to the principal's office because you can't even take the test, right? So if you can't staff,
you can't put someone in someone's home, then there really is nothing to really start with. And so we make sure that each and every branch, each and every staffer understands that not only are you signing a contract with that client, literally a consent, with that client, but you are signing that contract with the family. You're signing that contract with the referral source that you are going to do everything that you possibly can to take care of this individual. And that's got to matter to you. And so if that means that it's five o'clock
we're not done. We're not leaving, right? That means if it's six o'clock and we're not done, we're not leaving, right? There's a water burger right across the street. What do you guys want? We're going to be here for a little bit. And that's the mindset and the mentality that I think that separates good agencies from great agencies is, that you got to know and understand that we're not walking out of here until that we get this done because it's not a dollar on the end of the phone. ⁓ it's not a, a compliance issue on that. No, this is a person on the,
Miriam Allred (53:36)
Okay.
Reggie Mackey (53:56)
to somebody's mom, to somebody's dad, somebody's grandma, grandpa, whatever. And we're gonna do everything that we possibly can to get this done. And so we stress and emphasize that we will absolutely do any and everything that we humanly possibly and legally can do to get something staffed because that's where it all starts.
Miriam Allred (54:15)
Thank
Yeah, the staff or die. It's really interesting. I'm not going to lie. I've thought about it. It's in a good way. It's extreme, but in the best way. And I don't know if you've thought about this and I didn't say this to you, but there's kind of the pun as well. Staff or die, these are real people that need real help. And if they don't get the help, they are on their way to the end, unfortunately. That's the reality of this business. But you said to me too is
Reggie Mackey (54:43)
100%.
Miriam Allred (54:45)
you have to train these staffers to buy into this. Like for some of them, they have the heart, they believe it like they're bought in, but for others, they may have like the skills and the chops, but it may or may not like resonate with them. how do you get that buy-in? How do you get them to believe this?
and do it day in and day out and not get burned out because that staffer role gets burned out because this is so hard. Like how do you keep them?
Reggie Mackey (55:14)
Well, I think that you helped build that resiliency through servant leadership and in the sense that we will show them what we expect because that we will do it ourselves. ⁓ And what we say is that, know, in this organization, we're not a bunch of figureheads sitting on the ivory tower, you know, that is unreachable, meaning that if we have an issue going on, I would expect everybody on my executive leadership team to jump on a plane, get on a phone call, get in front of computer and help do what it is that we have to do. And we have and will.
you know, continue to do that if that's what it is that's required. And so when, when I think that, maybe someone who's coming in into an entry level staffing role or maybe even a, you know, mid tier staffing role and they see, that director or that VP sitting there with them at six and seven and eight o'clock at night, if that's what it is that requires or coming in early with them to get a jumpstart on the day, it's one of those things. It's not a, they're just telling me to do this. No, this is just the expectation and they take this seriously. ⁓ and I,
I
think that, again, when you have...
that type of leadership being exemplified to you, it's contagious. And then I think it just becomes the standard. And I think that that's where we're at now. It's just, that's the standard. No one's pushing this on you. No one's, no, this is just when you you walk into this office, right? The expectation is that none of us are leaving. We all have to share in the pain until that we get this done because of the importance of the person, on the under end of that phone. So.
Miriam Allred (56:44)
And that that stood out to me while I was in your office a couple of weeks ago is how close your executive team is in the weeds in the day to day like you're we talked earlier like your team is lean but maybe your executive team is like larger than some might think but it's because they're not just leading they are doing they are still in it as much as everybody else and they're supporting
everybody as if they're doing it and they are doing it themselves, which I think is really neat because sometimes it's easy for a corporate team and executive team to get removed from the day to day, but your team is as in it as they've ever been. And that's intentional, like staying close to working managers. Yeah. Which is amazing. And I, and I really think how it should be staying in doing the work, you know, contributing and managing at the same time. ⁓
Reggie Mackey (57:21)
Right. We're all working managers. We're all working managers. All working managers. Forever.
Miriam Allred (57:37)
Let's move on to customer service because that's kind of this third pillar. And we've talked a little bit about it kind of throughout this conversation, but you believe that it starts internally. Like you're talking about servant leadership. We're talking about this executive team. You are providing customer service to your own team. Let's start with you personally. Like you embody this, like you spend time with your team. You spend time out with the branch managers.
How are you personally delivering this customer service that has been the expectation for others?
Reggie Mackey (58:12)
So Miriam the funnest part of this job for me is people. And I absolutely love it. you know.
I probably shouldn't say it. don't know. Maybe some people will judge me as they're listening to this. I didn't get into home care for client care. I got into home care because I love the people who were doing the care. ⁓ and I know that that's maybe a different way, but I wanted to take care of the people who were doing it because I saw that they were so passionate. They loved what it is that they were doing. They were making such a genuine impact. And I knew if, if, if, if I ever had the chance again, going back to the beginning that I would just try to do everything I could to protect them and take care of
those folks and just really champion it. And so ⁓ for me, I tell people that the customer service experience doesn't start with me sitting back in and, you know, pounding my fists and sending out a ⁓ nicely written, you know, memo on a letterhead talking about outcome. People in our situations, executives and folks who have gotten a chance to scale the organization, you get to a point in this, a size where your interaction with clients becomes essentially zero.
Right. Very minimal to zero. Right. And so to sit back and talk about patient care and taking care of a client that you probably never will come in contact. I mean, let's just be honest, right? I mean, I may not meet every single client that we have in Idaho today, right? But I will know my branch manager in Idaho.
I will get a chance to speak to him on a weekly basis. I will get a chance to speak to my branch managers in Montana. And so I'll see their ups, I'll see their downs. I'll learn about their family. I'll learn about their likes. And so if I can't take care of that person, if I can't take care of the person, you know, in our executive leadership team or in our executive office, how can I talk about taking care of a patient who I will never see and never come in contact with, but then treat the person that I interact with on a day to day like nothing?
just makes 0 % sense to me. we say in LiveWell that the customer service experience starts with us providing it to our own people. And we believe that that trickles down to the next person, that if I do a great job of taking care of my executive leadership team, that they have no reason and no choice but to do the same thing. And eventually that's going to get down to our caregivers and to our patients. But it starts with showing that and exemplifying that to other people. And that's the biggest, and I mean the absolute biggest core principle for us
in our organization is that we're gonna take care of people who take care of people, which is our mission statement. We are taking care of people who take care of people.
Miriam Allred (1:00:46)
I love this so much and I love your honesty and transparency here as well. A lot of home care leaders get into it because they have a heart for the seniors. Not that you don't, but I actually really like this spin on it is you love and care for the people taking care of the people. Like I just, that just like hits deep, you know, like
We all and everyone grows in their love and understanding for the clients and the caregivers. But I love that your pull is towards like your leadership team to your office team, to the caregivers taking care of the people. And your job as the leader is to set that example of taking care of the people that take care of the people. Like I just I love that so much. And that's such a good thing for everyone listening to this to think about of just.
your genuine care and concern and how you embody taking care of the people that take care of the people. ⁓ I want to just in our last couple of minutes here, you've shared a couple of your like philosophies and mentalities at Live Well. And there's just a couple more that I want to talk about, like staff or die was one of them. You know, take people taking care of people is another one of them. ⁓ Another one that stood out to me that you shared with me is like new team, old school methods, like
We haven't talked a lot about technology. We don't have to go down this path, but you are approaching things like kind of basically and fundamentally, and you're not complicating things. so just share a little bit more on that like new team, old school methods, like what's behind that and what does that look like for you guys?
Reggie Mackey (1:02:19)
I think in today's society, right, you Miriam, with the advances of AI and, and technology. And again, I promise I'm not fighting against the machines, you know, or anything along those lines. I understand it has a place and, and, and I do believe it will help healthcare and it's already revolutionized our lives and there's no fighting against that. ⁓ but I think that with home care, ⁓ unlike, anything else in healthcare, right, specifically the non-medical piece, you are selling a,
⁓ human experience and and I hate to use that word sell but that's what you're doing you you are serving and selling a human experience and and I think that there is no way to provide that except for with a human right and so we want it to be the organization that sits back and it says that we are going to lean into doing it the old-school way yeah I mean meaning we are going to do it with people first now do we got to be responsible do we got to be careful do we got to make sure that we are efficient
Yes, all of those things. Do we understand that technology has a place and has a role? Absolutely. But there is no other way that I feel like, you can be successful, particularly in a home care business, without a standard of people first. And so, as we continue to grow and as we continue to evolve, it will always be around how it is that we continue to put people at the center and at the front of that.
Miriam Allred (1:03:41)
Hmm. One more thing that resonated with me that stood out to me while I was with you is this, you said it, you and the office team, you're doing life together. You, Meg and Tom, everyone there, you're working together day in and day out. And we all spend so much time with our coworkers and our colleagues. but, but you said to me, like you all as a team,
you're doing live well together, like you're doing your work together, but more importantly, like you're doing life together and you all have built this like unit of a team that are doing life together. And you shared some examples with me, like, you know, one of them picking up your kids because you couldn't get there, you traveling, like just paint that picture of like what that means to you as a leader to embody this mentality of like we're in it.
We're doing this together. We lose together, we win together, we're doing life together.
Reggie Mackey (1:04:36)
Yeah, I think that, you know, for me, Miriam, I am smart ⁓ enough.
to know that I am too dumb to have figured this out by myself and that I need those guys. I took off the cape a long time ago and realized that I'm more Clark Kent than I am Superman. And ⁓ these people, and this is the way that I genuinely feel and I'll shut up, but I genuinely feel that they took a chance on me, not the other way around. And so I'm so gracious and grateful to them. And so yes, we do life together. We work so many hours.
That staff or die mentality, again, is pushed down from leadership because we are doing that. You know, may not be literally staffing, but we are growing and executing and trying to do everything that we possibly can. And we're doing it all day every day is what it feels like sometimes. And so, yeah, you better really like the people that you are doing this with ⁓ or it's going to get really complicated and really difficult and really cumbersome really fast. But I think that for me.
I think that what has made it easier or what has made it a little bit more palatable is that I trust these guys. And I know that that sounds like a cliche, Miriam, but I trust them. And I believe that they will do every single thing that they say that they will do. And they haven't let me down yet. And it's my job and my responsibility to allow them to fail in a safe place so that when they do and if they do and all those things, I'm to be right there, champion them all, picking them up, dusting them off, telling them I love them.
And I know that that's a toxic thing to say in workplaces now. But so I guess we're toxic work environment because I tell them I love them all the time and appreciate them, that I love them. I appreciate them. Hey, let's get up. Let's go figure it out. But I'm right here with you.
Miriam Allred (1:06:24)
Reggie, so, so good. I don't want you to shut up. I want you to keep going. Don't say that. just have one thing that I want end with is we've talked about so many things and so many good things. Where is your mind the next 12 to 18 months? Where's your head space? Where are you going? What are you up to? What's coming?
Reggie Mackey (1:06:28)
Yeah.
Yeah, so we want to continue the course to push our core business and we got to saying we don't want to conquer all of the world, just most of it, you know, and that's our little inside joke. But, you know, of course, to continue to expand our footprint, you know, whether that's in a market we're already established in or new markets, we're not opposed to it. So, you know, we are we are.
Miriam Allred (1:06:54)
you
Reggie Mackey (1:07:07)
a non-bureaucratic system, no red tape, we just go. But I think that where a lot of our passion is transitioning to is to what we're doing on the Staff Well side, which is another arm of Live Well, where we want to be able to help other service providers continue to grow. I know, like we had mentioned with Paradigm there's a lot of great men and women out there that have the ideas, that have the business, that have the relationships, that have the rapport, but maybe they just need help with overcoming X obstacle. And so we want to be able to do that.
And so we're transitioning into. ⁓
outsourcing our services or I should say offering our services for agencies that are looking at being able to still do it the old fashioned traditional way. know that there's a lot of other organizations out there that are using AI and you know, are outsourcing, outside of the, the US. Well, we're going to be US based and it's going to be human beings who know this business picking up the phone, doing staffing and helping with recruiting and helping with on-call. And so that's our next venture ⁓ is really kind of getting the Staff Well brand and business up and going.
helping other agencies that may need additional support with their staffing, their recruiting, their on-call, because we know that those are the hard things for agencies to do. And we want to allow those branches, whether you are a single entity or single location owner or multi-location, we want to allow those people to be able to get back to doing what's the most important piece, which is providing that customer service. And we'll handle the hard stuff.
Miriam Allred (1:08:34)
Super
exciting. So this is called Staff Well, a branch off of Live Well. I think it's phenomenal. You all have done it successfully over and over and over and you're already out in a lot of these markets in a lot of these states. And I love what you said. It's just there's a lot of owners, operators out there that have a heart and that are taking care of their people.
but that struggle with the back office, that struggle with the staffing and the recruiting and you all have unlocked that. Like you've mastered it, you're doing it really well. And so you're basically just offering that service to some of these providers that could benefit from that. I think it's amazing. I think it's a big venture, but I think there's demand for it and really, really exciting. And I want everyone to meet you. Most people are listening to this in a podcast format, they're only hearing your voice.
But I'm like, everyone in this industry needs to meet Reggie because you're just contagious. Your smile, your energy, your passion. Look at the two of us, youngins, like passionate and obsessed with home care. Like that's why I gravitate towards you because I'm just, I'm just like in awe of you and your passion. And so I just want to say thank you for joining me in the lab. This has been my pleasure. More coming soon. I'll just like kind of tease it here.
Reggie Mackey (1:09:31)
Yeah.
Miriam Allred (1:09:47)
We haven't talked a lot about VA today, but that is your team's bread and butter. so teasing it that I want to do a masterclass where I interview your whole team and we deep dive on VA best practices and how you all have unlocked those relationships and things. So more coming soon because I clearly can't get enough. But Reggie, thank you for joining me. This has been phenomenal.
Reggie Mackey (1:10:08)
Thank you so much. appreciate it. And like I said, honor and privilege to be on. I know you had a ton of successful men and women on here and so humble to even be remotely ⁓ considered to be on here. So thank you so much. The honor and privilege is mine.
Miriam Allred (1:10:23)
Absolutely. I'm throwing your hat in the ring with everybody else because you're in it. You're in it. So you and I will both be at HCAOA way in Dallas this fall. Happy to introduce you to everyone. People that want a personal introduction to Reggie. Like I just, again, thank the world of you and people can learn a lot from you. So reach out to us, connect with us on LinkedIn, make sure you continue this conversation.
Reggie Mackey (1:10:44)
Thank you so much.