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Join NABR in partnership with Corp! Magazine for our CEO & Executive Thought Leadership Series, where Jennifer Kluge sits down with C-Suite Leaders to get their insight and expertise.
NABR is a service organization igniting greatness in companies and their people.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;14;10
Jennifer
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of CEO and Executive Thought Leadership. I am your host, Jennifer Kluge, and today we have a very special guest, and friend, Rob Dwortz. Welcome to the program.
00;00;14;12 - 00;00;15;27
Rob
Thanks for having me, Jennifer.
00;00;16;00 - 00;00;44;12
Jennifer
Yeah. Of course. Let me just tell everyone a little bit about you. After holding several leadership positions throughout your career, Rob quickly learned that success to an organization is that people, taking this idea Rob co-founded Become Unmistakable. Combining software and training solutions, they equip companies and the leadership teams with the tools they need to learn and grow.
00;00;44;15 - 00;00;47;07
Jennifer
So it's a pleasure to have you on the program, Rob.
00;00;47;09 - 00;00;52;24
Rob
Yeah. Again, thanks. I really appreciate the opportunity to spend a little time and catch up with you a little bit, too.
00;00;52;26 - 00;01;12;01
Jennifer
Yeah. Well, you know, I always love to tell the story, Become Unmistakable. Has some of its roots, from the best and brightest companies to work for. Can you tell us a little bit more about, when you founded the company and why you founded the company?
00;01;12;07 - 00;01;31;26
Rob
Sure. I mean, maybe I'll hit the best and brightest first because, my co-founder and I. So Mike Caskey, who owns EB construction, you know, good sized construction company and very cultural forward leader. And I was spending a lot of time, well, 25 years in the banking industry, as you know, and of leaving as a CEO, but very kind of culture focused.
00;01;31;28 - 00;01;51;13
Rob
The two of us came together and we both had a history with best and brightest mind, was somewhat brief. We had just entered our chief people officer and I had put together, a program to grow culture, and we wanted to learn more about how our people felt. So we tapped into the best and brightest and one as a first year applicant, and we're thrilled about it.
00;01;51;15 - 00;02;12;11
Rob
But Mike's company had been at it for years, and so he used it very early on in EV to really diagnose the issues in his culture, because when he took over, there were many, to really learn about what was important to his people. And they leaned very heavily into the best and brightest programs, to, to, you know, the surveys and learning.
00;02;12;17 - 00;02;24;27
Rob
And then he, as you know very, very well he took a role, at the board locally and nationally and has really done his best to to model some of the things that best and brightest is really been strong.
00;02;24;27 - 00;02;47;28
Jennifer
It so, so because of you and some of the concepts that you all came up with, his company went from either middle of the pack or towards the bottom of the pack of the best and brightest to the top. And they became an elite winner, and then they became a national winner. And, it's just such a wonderful success story.
00;02;48;00 - 00;03;21;21
Jennifer
And from those successes, you all created tools for other businesses to learn how to put your culture first. And, and really, become a best and brightest. So, I, I know we use one of your products here in our company, but you know, I, I can't say this enough. So the data shows us, the lowest scoring area, meaning what employees really don't like, about their cultures or about their processes.
00;03;21;24 - 00;03;43;28
Jennifer
And both supervisors and employees really don't like performance reviews. And for about ten years now, we've been beating on this drum. Okay. Shouldn't you have conversations and shouldn't they be off and and then the moment rather than a performance review. And when I'm talking about a performance review, I'm talking about, oh, you're a four out of five on communication.
00;03;44;00 - 00;03;52;17
Jennifer
You're a I'm at a five on leadership. Check check check. Oh, and this issue that happened six months ago. Let's talk about that now.
00;03;52;20 - 00;03;55;01
Rob
Yeah. Right. Let me throw that in your face and surprise me.
00;03;55;01 - 00;04;08;13
Jennifer
Yes, yes. So we have been preaching, to get rid of performance reviews. You have a fantastic tool for crucial conversations. Can you tell everyone one about the uMap?
00;04;08;16 - 00;04;43;03
Rob
Yeah. So, the uMap is a piece of what we do in a very, very important piece. Your earlier question about kind of what we do more broadly, just to give a context. So you Become Unmistakable, right? That's the name of our business. We're a manager upskilling platform. And so we take folks from the C-suite all the way down to folks that are at the frontline or even aspiring leaders, and help them understand how to create the human skills, the relationship skills, to really develop other people and do performance and, and run their version of the organization.
00;04;43;05 - 00;05;05;00
Rob
And so we do that through programs, but we also do that through this. uMap software. Right? So so uMap is an interesting tool because it's live and it gathers a bunch of information about people, both professional and personal. Right. And we then train leaders and managers how to use that information to connect with their people at a depth and to have conversations that are, you know, we'll call crucial.
00;05;05;00 - 00;05;32;29
Rob
And I've got that book sitting right here on my on my, shelf, on a regular basis. So we really try to get people whenever they're able. And there are some barriers to it to have regular conversations, at least quarterly, that are really more formal and memorialized about what's important to them personally, professionally, the organization, and to pull it all together and align it, and to have conversations that that lead to successful outcomes.
00;05;33;01 - 00;05;50;04
Jennifer
Well, I know we love it as a tool. And we use it ourselves. So one of the cool things is that you can put a picture of your brand. You can either put a logo or a picture of your brand, and you learn so much about a person just by a visual, other things as well. What's your favorite food?
00;05;50;04 - 00;06;16;00
Jennifer
What's your favorite restaurant things that, you would think that working with someone side by side for many years, you would know a lot about them? Well, we know a lot about the work person, but not the human and the human goals and their life goals and or challenges. And some of the best leaders help people achieve their personal goals that are nothing to do with work, nothing to do.
00;06;16;04 - 00;06;35;13
Jennifer
Right. So as a leader yourself and mentoring other leaders, you get a pulse for what's out there. What are you hearing right now? What are the trends? What are either the positive trends or challenges out there? In the marketplace? What are you finding out?
00;06;35;15 - 00;06;57;21
Rob
I there are many, right, as you know. Well. And you also, you dig in with a ton of companies in a ton of different industries and geographies. So, I'll, I'll state the obvious, and then I'll move on because I is in every boardroom, every conference. It's, I'm I'm tired of hearing about it. Although we're not even close to being done hearing about it, for the a couple of years.
00;06;57;21 - 00;07;23;03
Rob
And how is it threatening our business? How is it going to help our business? How do we need to skill people and our people with the challenge, with the talent to do those things? So so I is obviously, first and foremost, other issues as it relates to people. We still have a massive skill gap in the manager ranks around, and, and it's really top to bottom.
00;07;23;03 - 00;07;49;10
Rob
I'm coming out of the pandemic, which we're also all very, very tired of talking about. One thing that our research showed is that that managers, just typical managers, picked up a significant number of additional responsibilities that they had previously viewed as the purview of HR. Let's call it recruiting and onboarding, employee development, performance management, which I would argue, I think alongside you, that is a manager's responsibility.
00;07;49;14 - 00;08;09;24
Rob
Right. But these things were often they cited more than half of them cited that they had taken on these new responsibilities. And at the same time, they're in a player coach model. And so the challenges I really see are around that player coach model. When the mid-level manager ranks where they're still doing way too much playing, not enough coaching.
00;08;09;26 - 00;08;30;22
Rob
And one of the reasons is they don't have the skills to coach, they don't have the tools that they need to coach efficiently. It's very, very cumbersome. The processes that they're going through. And that really slows down teams and makes true, you know, kind of connected leadership and management like we are, I think, both aligned on all but impossible.
00;08;30;24 - 00;08;41;01
Rob
And it really makes performance suffer. So those those are a couple one kind of big picture, one tactical, but I could throw a few more at you that I.
00;08;41;04 - 00;08;43;03
Jennifer
Go for it. Go for it.
00;08;43;05 - 00;09;06;09
Rob
So we spent a lot of time with CEOs and and so there's kind of a, a fundamental thing that's happening with a change in generation in the workplace. Right. Like we're moving we I mean, we're moving. We've moved right to the next generation of leadership. There's still some dinosaurs like me sitting out here leading businesses, but so many people are millennial leaders today.
00;09;06;15 - 00;09;32;29
Rob
Right. And so dealing with those impacts and and with companies, we're seeing a tremendous amount of shift in with the smaller business, small to midsize business, call it under 100 million family. Generational shifts are accelerating and there are generational differences in the way they lead and they're not equipped. So that's that's one. So and the other is well, related to that, how do you maintain the culture that's been built?
00;09;33;01 - 00;09;54;06
Rob
Right. The strong culture that's been built by the the current generation and pass it to the next, the other thing that we see, and this is maybe true, we can bring, you know, my partner into this Mike Nova in organizations like it's where I mean, you know, Mike like Mike is, you know, or than life personality. He casts that lights.
00;09;54;06 - 00;09;55;14
Jennifer
Up a room.
00;09;55;16 - 00;09;56;12
Rob
Oh, yes.
00;09;56;14 - 00;10;08;28
Jennifer
And he shows for our listeners his his partner, is a very, aggressive but kind and charming leader.
00;10;09;00 - 00;10;11;05
Rob
Yeah. And aggressively cunning. Yeah, yeah.
00;10;11;06 - 00;10;12;08
Jennifer
Aggressively kind.
00;10;12;09 - 00;10;13;11
Rob
Yeah, he really is.
00;10;13;11 - 00;10;16;22
Jennifer
And he has very smart of everyone. Yeah. Yeah.
00;10;16;24 - 00;10;41;20
Rob
So, so in his situation, his business has grown to the point where he can't carry the culture of that business on his shoulders anymore. And so it hasn't outgrown him. But he needs to be a a force multiplier and to equip others to carry that strong culture on into the generations that follow. And so those two challenges, either management transition via family or growth.
00;10;41;23 - 00;11;05;13
Rob
Right. Because now we talked to multi-billion dollar companies, and it's impossible for any single dynamic leader to really cast that and carry that culture. It has to be scaled somehow within their organizations and identifying the people who can do it, equipping the people who can do it, and then getting it done consistently throughout an organization of any scale is a massive challenge.
00;11;05;18 - 00;11;33;15
Jennifer
Well, plus the last five years, there's been a lot of shifting and and refocusing and priorities changing and surprise here, surprise there. So and all of that on top of the skill gap, the changes in AI, the cultural transitions, family business dynamics, I mean, it it it's a lot. But we will get through it. Let's kind of talk about leadership.
00;11;33;18 - 00;11;58;23
Jennifer
And you can talk related to these issues or even other issues. I think, a lot of leaders are just trying to figure it out now. Digital world, hybrid world, in-person world, navigate getting the constant change which changes the new normal. Right. And what do you think leaders are getting the, incorrect or what are they doing.
00;11;58;23 - 00;12;08;22
Jennifer
Correct. I mean, what are some of the good things that people are doing right now that others can learn from? But more importantly, what are we doing wrong? What do we need to stop?
00;12;08;22 - 00;12;32;18
Rob
Oh, another that's a really meaty question. I, I did mention one thing. You know, I would love to see the player coach model, you know, dead and buried at some point. It'll never go away entirely. But I think we do get that wrong when we put too much play along the responsibility to manage. But the folks that I think that are that are doing things wrong, I want to be a little bit careful because, you know, we do it.
00;12;32;18 - 00;13;09;18
Rob
Everybody does this. Yeah. And there are successful organizations that do it too. Right? So the fact of hiring people based on a particular background, based on their experiences, based on their college, particularly that college word. Right. And so hiring based on access, you know, access to people, access to education and a particular path. Right. And then the experiences that they've had, as opposed to hiring for skills and potential, I went to a really fascinating, first of its kind conference.
00;13;09;18 - 00;13;37;16
Rob
They don't like to be called a conference there, a summit called the Human Potential Summit in Colorado last fall. And it was really eye opening about, you know, how there's a huge push to hire for skills and potential and to get away from this kind of tradition track. And I was really inspired by it, because that's some of the stuff that we truly try to discern about people, you know, on the front end as they onboard and throughout their, their journey as an employee.
00;13;37;18 - 00;13;59;04
Rob
But so I'll share maybe two stories about what people are doing really right. One is if some folks down in Texas that we work with very, very closely, they're a wonderful company. Preferred Technologies is their name other based in Houston. And they the work that we do together, is very much focused on creating a relationships based business.
00;13;59;07 - 00;14;21;21
Rob
It's funny, they're a systems integrator and security firm and and they will describe themselves as were relations. We're relationship based company that we just happened to install card readers and cameras. And they take it very seriously. So they're very intentional about equipping their people with the relationship skills to not only treat each other well, but treat everybody else.
00;14;21;21 - 00;14;49;10
Rob
They come in contact with well. And they believe in this conversion from a knowledge based economy to a relationships based economy. And I there's a whole nother discussion about why that is necessary. And so they take this formalized care concept in a really, really strong direction. They double down and their performance is exemplary, absolutely exemplary. And it kind of speaks out loud with their culture.
00;14;49;10 - 00;15;14;20
Jennifer
So so let's let's drill down on that a little bit, because you mentioned that one of the biggest complaints is skill gap is we've talked a lot about it on this program. I've talked a lot about it off this program. And then you're talking about human potential and hiring for human potential. You know, conceptually it sounds amazing, but how how does a company do this?
00;15;14;20 - 00;15;32;19
Jennifer
I mean, you're describing this company doing it successfully. But for anybody listening out there that has this skill gap and they are hiring. Wrong. What are 1 or 2, nuggets that you can give them that they can implement right now to address that issue.
00;15;32;23 - 00;15;56;10
Rob
So understanding skills is important. So there are assessments that can help you with assessing skill. Right. And those are tools that are very available. And they're good tools right. So you could use those. But during the interview process or and that's not just, you know, people joining organizations. It's within. And it becomes easier within. Right. As long as you double down on knowing the people within that, then I'll hit them separately.
00;15;56;13 - 00;16;29;03
Rob
But really focusing on values based hiring methodologies, like you want people to ask the right questions to help discern whether they are people that are going to fit in a relationships based business. For example, here's a like, I'm getting really tactical. But yeah, please explain a time when you, had a difficult relationship at work and then learn from how they handled it, you know, something very simple like that to really ascertain whether they're the kind of person that is going to fit well into your culture.
00;16;29;07 - 00;16;43;23
Rob
Right? And play well in sandbox. That's a very simple example. And whatever other values you have developed as an organization, you know, hire very closely to them because you can train everything else. Now when you're inside a business. Do you have a question?
00;16;43;25 - 00;17;08;13
Jennifer
No, I was just going to say, you know, getting a committee together in your company and saying, okay, what questions can we ask in the interview process that match this value that we want to hire for? And then hopefully they give you the truth, right? Yes. With that snap of it and then and then the and then I think what you're saying is, is the testing goes hand in hand with the, the hiring not values.
00;17;08;13 - 00;17;11;04
Jennifer
So making sure those that absolutely.
00;17;11;04 - 00;17;29;16
Rob
And then and then focus your interview questions on skills as opposed to their experiences in their last positions. Right. Yeah. Because you need to really understand what the skills inventory is for what you're hiring for. So and I don't want to go too deep into that because I am not you know, I'm not a talent acquisition person.
00;17;29;18 - 00;17;53;22
Rob
Like that's all of my time. I'm more so talent management and talent development in the way that we interact with our clients. So then when you get people in the door to really more fully understand who they are as a human being, their values, their character, how they define success, how they define what they need to develop to be successful in these roles, and then aligning around the role definitions themselves.
00;17;53;29 - 00;18;26;29
Rob
There are so many kind of standard rote, descriptions of jobs and to be able to really engage manager and employee and those conversations around what those priorities really are and then what skills needs to be developed, and then having those conversations regularly and giving some resources. You know, we always talk about, you know, the individual employee is really driving the race car and we're the pit crew as a as a management team, you know, they're going to be pressing the pedal a little bit every once in a while, pumping the brakes, and then we're there to change their tires, fill their tank, give them the resources they need to keep going.
00;18;26;29 - 00;18;35;05
Rob
But we're tapping into their potential. That's why they are here, right? Right. All of their skill. So I know I'm kind of going off. No.
00;18;35;05 - 00;18;36;02
Jennifer
No, you're doing great.
00;18;36;02 - 00;18;40;02
Rob
On the tangents, but, yeah. That's how yeah, that's how we go through.
00;18;40;04 - 00;19;06;27
Jennifer
Can we chat a little bit more? You mentioned generations of leadership. We're here. It is funny. It cycles in and out this discussion, and is coming back up as a hot topic. And that probably has something to do with the skill gap. You know, people, people coming in at higher salaries and in leaders and managers thinking, you're hiring here, here's the salary, here's the job title.
00;19;06;29 - 00;19;34;03
Jennifer
But the skill sets down here, and I think that is driving some of the generational back in my day, you know, those kind of conversations. So for those listening and in your experience, what can we learn from the younger generation right now? What if you hired, I don't know, 20 or 30, younger generation folks. What should we be learning from them?
00;19;34;03 - 00;19;41;10
Jennifer
And then what advice would you give for those folks to learn from somebody that's been on the job for 20, 20, 30 years?
00;19;41;12 - 00;20;00;09
Rob
What a wonderful question. So I'll start with a little anecdote, because there I think you, you frame the question really well in that there's something for each of us to learn right from one another, and that having that open heart, open mind to do that is a really important thing. And I think it starts with the leadership to be open hearted and open minded.
00;20;00;09 - 00;20;23;14
Rob
Yeah. A couple of years ago, I was, I was, leading a pretty large leadership retreat for about 30 plus leaders and a pretty good sized company. And this conversation came up about generational changes. And these were senior leaders, all people that, let's say Gen X and boomers that were having this conversation about how it was when we came up with.
00;20;23;21 - 00;20;43;22
Rob
Right. And so this this happened to be a another construction company. But they were talking about, you know, when they came up, they were given the space to figure things out. Right? You'd be given a task, but then you'd be given some space to go tinker with it, figure it out, ask questions, but do it on your own and do it at a depth that then you were.
00;20;43;27 - 00;21;06;21
Rob
You would become an expert and could teach the next person. And then the later generations are more, you know, more modern generations. We have YouTube, right, that you can do a particular task, watch the YouTube, do the task, do it 50 more times. While that person that I just described is still figuring it out, the productivity is so much higher.
00;21;06;24 - 00;21;26;09
Rob
But the difference is the depth of understanding is not the same. You might go back to that same YouTube over and over and over again to do the same task to make sure. Right. So the question that was raised is which is better? The productivity is definitely better in the current day, but the depth and confidence that you build in the old ways was maybe a bit better.
00;21;26;11 - 00;21;46;01
Rob
So how do we go about it? And I will tell you, they didn't have the answer. They just coming from that they had empathy for the next generation and they wanted to they want to let them be productive and find ways to infuse a little bit of pace and space where they can they can really kind of collectively learn.
00;21;46;03 - 00;21;55;22
Rob
So I think learning from the older generation in that way, I think is an important thing. Learning from the productivity and the work style from the younger generation is is a great thing for us to learn.
00;21;55;22 - 00;22;12;22
Jennifer
Yeah. And curiosity. Right. Rob I'm starting to interrupt. So curiosity. Oh, tell me why you're doing it that way. I want to study that up. Or what? Why? Show me that video, you know, where did you find that video? Maybe I can make a video. You know, that kind of stuff, right?
00;22;12;25 - 00;22;31;20
Rob
Yeah. And I. Absolutely. So curiosity is key. But I think the biggest thing that we can give the nod to generations that, that come after, say, the two of us, right, is the concept of feedback. When I, when I was brought up in the business world, if I never spoke to my manager once, I was doing my job correctly.
00;22;31;22 - 00;22;58;13
Rob
Right. It was head down. If I needed feedback, it was painful. And that is completely different in the generations that come after me. And it's so much healthier. So in all the research that we do and the amount of connectivity that people in younger generations want with their manager, it's exponentially higher, right? People want to talk to their managers daily, if not multiple times per day, and not just to hear the hey, good job.
00;22;58;13 - 00;23;25;01
Rob
It's to hear, how can I do my job better? Give me some feedback so that I can be better. So it's constructive feedback. And you and I both know that feedback in general is very threatening, right? It can be very frightening. The uncertainty, the status around it, all of the things that circle around it. And so the the willingness to receive feedback and to act on feedback is something that we need to learn from them.
00;23;25;04 - 00;23;33;11
Jennifer
Yeah, and vice versa. To getting feedback from somebody that's been at the company for, for 20 years is scary, right?
00;23;33;14 - 00;23;34;01
Rob
Yeah.
00;23;34;03 - 00;23;38;00
Jennifer
Yeah for sure. That's received it goes both ways.
00;23;38;02 - 00;23;39;29
Rob
It does. Yeah. And there's a proper way.
00;23;40;00 - 00;24;17;15
Jennifer
Defensiveness needs to come down. And that goes hand in hand with, you know why we're saying don't do performance reviews. Have these conversations, build trust and creating a safe environment to really be truthful and not saying things in a way you think people want to hear. And that goes for everybody. You know, the hybrid world has been very interesting, as as leaders that had experienced the world before hybrid now hybrid and digital and fully remote and what have you, what we are seeing, we might disagree on this.
00;24;17;15 - 00;24;19;05
Jennifer
I'm not sure if we do it. Let's see.
00;24;19;05 - 00;24;21;11
Rob
Which one. Yeah.
00;24;21;13 - 00;24;55;15
Jennifer
So what we are seeing in the data that we're collecting our recommendation, we just released our recommendations for leaders. One of our recommendations is in-person training, in-person training and in-person mentoring. Which is a little challenging, where when a supervisor may be mostly remote or, the schedules don't line up or what what have you what are you finding in that and what would you recommend to people for bare minimum with their training plans and development plans?
00;24;55;17 - 00;25;29;24
Rob
So we don't disagree. Am I the only thing I would add is that it I 100% agree with, the caveat that it's not always practical. So, in-person is always better for training and for mentoring. But with organizations spread out all over the place, it is just isn't always practical. So starting some of those relationships, having a training that's centralized and then supported by live virtual or, you know, something asynchronous, well, we're mentoring that is established in a personal relationship.
00;25;29;24 - 00;25;54;02
Rob
And three dimensions, but then supported in this way. Right. Those are things that that we see working and, and actually, but this, this, this strong drive for in-person has people flying us all over the country. To do their trainings. And one of the reasons why we've converted a decent amount of our leadership curriculum, to a train the trainer model.
00;25;54;04 - 00;26;09;22
Rob
So our, the organizations we work with, we now equip and certify their trainers to deliver our material so that they can do it in person, because it is just that much more effective in the relationship building. The experience of that happens faster and at a greater depth.
00;26;09;25 - 00;26;27;08
Jennifer
Are you finding that group training is in person is ideal? And then what about after? Is that individual mentoring at a supervisor level? I would imagine that there needs to be individual mentoring and group training and then reinforcement in the culture.
00;26;27;11 - 00;26;51;00
Rob
So yes, that is that is a very good model, right? Individual, mentoring that follows group training. We've also had a lot of success in group training that lives beyond the initial, and so what I mean by that is we we will train groups of people within organizations, and then we will teach them how to mentor each other in a cohort setting.
00;26;51;02 - 00;27;11;03
Rob
And so that's something that that and that will facilitate at times. But often we don't need to. So they we set them up with the skills to help coach one another. So there's, there is a greater level of expertise that they can draw from as long as the environment feels safe, which is kind of something we uniquely do.
00;27;11;03 - 00;27;20;11
Rob
Yeah. So we found that to be a really successful model and one that can be scales a lot easier than doing individual mentoring.
00;27;20;13 - 00;27;55;09
Jennifer
Yeah. So cohorts within the company for training and mentoring purposes, mostly mentoring. So you somebody brings an issue to the within the company walls though cracked. Yeah that's a great idea creating little issue solving groups for mentoring purposes and having a diverse group of people there for the best idea, a great idea. You know, before we get to some rapid fire questions, you you have seen a lot of cultures.
00;27;55;15 - 00;28;18;21
Jennifer
You're inside these offices, you're helping them. You have your own company that you run, what are some of the best practices that you have seen that has just wowed you? As it relates to your area of expertise? When we go in there, what? It can be anything. What has wowed you with other companies that you've seen firsthand?
00;28;18;27 - 00;28;41;22
Rob
You know, I would be remiss if I didn't share, you know, at least a little bit about Mike and EV. I mean, those folks have created, a really unique situation, where they, they really encourage idea generation from around the organization. Right. So somebody might come forth with an idea and then as a leadership team, they decide they the every single time.
00;28;41;22 - 00;29;01;25
Rob
Let's, let's put it on steroids. Right. If the group if it's a good idea, let's do it at a much higher level that no one else would expect. And a simple example is that they wanted to do a bring your, child parent to work day, right? Very simple. Similar things are done around the country. So they did that, but instead they made it.
00;29;01;26 - 00;29;20;06
Rob
They opened it up to the community, and they created all kinds of community facing activities so the community could get to know what it's like in their industry and, and take it beyond the walls of their organization now. And now they're actually expanding it to a full week, right where they're they're interacting with other community partners and, and making it a celebration.
00;29;20;06 - 00;29;52;16
Rob
So things like that. And there are so many examples of that within EV. So that's a there they're a great kind of we call them our R&D lab. Right. For for media that's great. Everything gets tested and sometimes broken rarely. But but they do such great things there. So that's one another thing that has really wowed me, is a good sized organization that we work with in Florida, that they have made it, and I'm focusing a little bit on construction here, which I realize we do business across industries, but this is.
00;29;52;16 - 00;29;54;24
Jennifer
Just this type of monstrous thing.
00;29;54;27 - 00;30;17;19
Rob
Yeah. It just comes to mind because I really do think it's incredibly exemplary. I'm happy to share. Miller electric is the company's name, and as I shared Preferred Technologies, they have, a very stated goal that they want their leadership to be 50% from what we'll call the college tracks. And they're very deliberate about saying it doesn't matter what track.
00;30;17;21 - 00;30;56;07
Rob
We they don't care if you come out of education or you come out of engineering, right? They want this to be very balanced, that half across the college track and the other, they want to come out of the trades. They want these people to come up through the apprenticeship group. And they're very deliberate, about 5050, because they believe that the skills on both sides of that equation, if they create an environment where they are shared, where the collaboration is, is really, really strong, which it is that they will get the best of both groups and they will receive this concept of human potential, like I, I that's one of the best I've ever seen.
00;30;56;09 - 00;30;59;27
Rob
But they're very deliberate, intentional and and they do a.
00;30;59;27 - 00;31;28;15
Jennifer
That model that model works. I know in, in education itself there's, there's I think in Ivy schools are notorious for this, right. You create your own degree, you create your own collaboration. And and you take, let's say, an engineer and you combine it with an artist. Something new and different is created. This cutting edge is is part of ingenuity, is is mixing it all together so that they're ahead of their time.
00;31;28;15 - 00;31;29;12
Jennifer
For sure.
00;31;29;12 - 00;31;32;04
Rob
For sure. Yeah. No, they're a wonderful business. They really are a good group.
00;31;32;05 - 00;31;41;05
Jennifer
Oh that's great. That's great. All right, switching gears. We're going to rapid fire before we adjourn. What book do you recommend for leaders?
00;31;41;08 - 00;31;59;27
Rob
Okay. So I mean, you're throwing me a softball, you know, so we, as you know, are in the process, you know, of of writing our our next book Become Unmistakable. What was the first, Right Brain Justified is the name of our new book, which won't hit the shelves until the end of April. So. But we have put pens down.
00;31;59;27 - 00;32;15;14
Rob
We're in the editing and design process now, so please look for Right Brain Justified and and so and it really does talk about the concepts of scaling positive culture and building and creating or drawing out human potential and formalizing care.
00;32;15;15 - 00;32;16;29
Jennifer
We're talking about here.
00;32;17;02 - 00;32;19;26
Rob
Yeah, yeah, all those things. But I give you some others too.
00;32;19;26 - 00;32;24;23
Jennifer
So okay, wait, hang on one second. Become Unmistakable. They can find that on Amazon, correct?
00;32;24;25 - 00;32;48;01
Rob
They can. Yeah. Become Unmistakable. Become Unmistakable. Dot com. That's us. It's a mouthful. There's no e and unmistakable there's a, a couple of ways, but anyway, you know, but some other books that I've really leaned into, you know, they maybe aren't as current, but they're absolutely timeless in my opinion. Essentialism by Greg McKeown.
00;32;48;02 - 00;33;17;24
Rob
The Art of doing more by doing less, and changing your default setting as a leader. To say that I'm only going to accept this new thing if it's truly essential to me. That's been a real game changer for me, as has the power of Moments by Chip and Dan Heath. I don't know if you're familiar with that book, but it spans across personal and professional, and it's really about how do you create unexpected moments to to really solidify relationships.
00;33;17;26 - 00;33;43;22
Rob
And I've used it in my own family. I've certainly used it in the business context, too. And if you think about the employees journey and how do you celebrate, how do you memorialize, how do you really connect them to purpose? It's a really instructive book. So those are those are three, three, I guess, for, you know, the original Blue Book, Right Brain Justified essentialism and the power of moments.
00;33;43;25 - 00;33;51;20
Jennifer
That's great. That's great. Another quick one here. Is there a podcast or business speaker that you enjoy it?
00;33;51;22 - 00;34;12;17
Rob
Okay, so here's a you know, here's my moment of vulnerability. I don't really have one. It's on my list in January to spend more time in the world of podcasts. I have been a crazy startup founder. I, I wish I could throw out a couple of really great names that everybody knows, and I do appreciate many speakers.
00;34;12;20 - 00;34;16;18
Rob
But there's not one that I'm really kind of following and clinging to at this point.
00;34;16;20 - 00;34;37;24
Jennifer
Yeah. And something that's on my to do list, too, is to get a little bit. I, I, I'm in the industry of hearing speakers. Right. But it's a podcast. Podcast is something I love to get more involved in. And then less rapid fire question here. What is your go to interview question candidate interview question?
00;34;37;26 - 00;35;00;16
Rob
You know, I shared it. I shared it earlier. It's this and I and it's true though. So it this concept of relationships is such an important thing for us. So my go to question is tell me about a difficult work relationship that you have and, and I'm, I'm really looking. And of course, the, the obvious follow up is, what did you do to repair it?
00;35;00;21 - 00;35;27;27
Rob
Like, how did this end? And, you know, really looking to understand how a person approaches those types of issues and looking for humility, and owning their own side of the struggle. And then how did you work together to actually repair it? And one of the worst answers I could ever receive is how someone explains how they rose above the other person and became the bigger person, right?
00;35;27;29 - 00;35;37;25
Rob
And just tolerated the issue. And powered through. That's really not a good answer. Because I think we learn a lot more about people when they they own their side.
00;35;37;27 - 00;35;59;22
Jennifer
Yeah. And heartfelt to that isn't there was an issue I feel bad about it. We're trying to work through it with you here. You know, here's what I tried. You know those kind of things. Right. Well, Rob, thank you for being on the program. It's it's been wonderful having you. Remember, you can find the book Become Unmistakable on Amazon.
00;35;59;24 - 00;36;02;02
Jennifer
And the second book comes out when.
00;36;02;05 - 00;36;03;19
Rob
At the end of April.
00;36;03;21 - 00;36;18;28
Jennifer
Native range. Wrong. Right. Brain justified. You are, such an expert in this area. We're so glad that we know you rob a wonderful friendship with you. Keep shining bright.
00;36;19;01 - 00;36;25;14
Rob
Thank you. Thanks for having me. And I really value our affiliation with best and brightest as well.
00;36;25;16 - 00;36;29;17
Jennifer
Well, everyone, have a great day. That's it for today's show. See you all later.