Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Most B2B companies overlook their biggest growth opportunity: investing in the customers they already have. Yet, customer marketing leaders struggle to secure budget, prove ROI, and drive growth.
In a world obsessed with more (more leads, more deals, more revenue), how do you make customer advocacy a non-negotiable growth strategy?
This show is for marketers who want to turn customer advocacy into a strategic growth engine. Each episode features customer marketing pioneers, revenue leaders, and industry experts sharing actionable strategies to engage, retain, and expand your client base. And not just through content, but through meaningful connection.
Because customers become champions when you make them feel valued first.
[00:00:00] Taylor Bogar: I had a client that had no testimonials and so we built a testimonial workflow for them and they used three of those testimonials in social ads, The ads converted like 150 new customers and it ended up leading to $90,000 in revenue where they did not have those ads before.
[00:00:16] Taylor Bogar: And that revenue would not exist if it weren't for the testimonial workflow. and so that's the whole pitch is like your prospects wanna see themselves reflected in your marketing, and if your customer. Ideally, it's a good indicator of the prospect you wanna go after. Your customers should be doing your marketing for you.
[00:00:45] Jeff Reekers: All right everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Customer Champions podcast. today we're diving, uh, deep into the world of community driven growth with someone who's turned customer marketing into an art form and a revenue driver. Taylor Bogart is the founder of Social Animal where she helps B2B brands turn their happiest customers, uh, into their biggest referral growth engines.
[00:01:05] Jeff Reekers: Before launching her own company, Taylor led customer marketing at Apollo, uh, and Chili Piper building programs like the Apollo Sales community, the G-T-M-M-Y Awards and customer advocacy engines at Influence. buku buckaroo in revenue. Uh, she's mastered the craft of blending strategies, storytelling, and just authentic connection, to create communities that that really thrive.
[00:01:27] Jeff Reekers: We're gonna talk about how she's built these programs, the fastest way to get social proof, the future of customer marketing, life, all sorts of things. But I'll just stop it there and say thank you, Taylor, for joining us today on the podcast.
[00:01:39] Taylor Bogar: Yeah. Thank you for having me. That was such a nice intro.
[00:01:42] Jeff Reekers: Okay, cool. Maybe just kick us off, What is social animal like? What do you do there? What types of customers are you working with today?
[00:01:48] Taylor Bogar: social Animal is the, uh, community agency that I started last year. When I left my full-time role at Apollo, I saw a huge opportunity just based on my experience at Chili Piper and then at Apollo, with taking a new approach to customer marketing where it's focused less on. Post-sale activities, uh, things like, increasing the velocity of deals closed by providing case studies and, you know, uh, supporting PMM with testimonials and things like that.
[00:02:18] Taylor Bogar: And, and less on the activities that can help move deals along. And more on like, how can we take what we've learned with. Customer marketing, and apply that to presale and build brand awareness and also help use the customer voice to build community. so that's a lot of what I did at Apollo and Chili Piper and I've
[00:02:36] Taylor Bogar: created a playbook for that and now I'm implementing similar strategies at different clients in B2B. Uh, my clients range from sales engagement tools to customer marketing tools, so kind of all over the place, but, uh, really enjoying getting to learn about a variety of customers and, different pain points and ways to activate them, and then how to apply that to social strategy.
[00:03:00] Jeff Reekers: I know we're really gonna focus on those components around customer marketing, community, social, but I gotta dive into the entrepreneurship part a a little bit. Um, 'cause that place has a real soft spot in, uh, in my own heart as well. And you left. successful full-time roles and sort of career to start your own company while also, you know, raising a family, and building a family, building a young family.
[00:03:22] Jeff Reekers: It is no small undertaking. I mean, probably the many other things that life throws at us. What was the moment that you knew you wanted to jump into building your own agency? And, it can go on on the challenges, I'm sure, building something from scratch. in a whole five hour podcast, but kind of what was that leap like and, where'd you have to kinda get mentally to kind of make that leap for yourself?
[00:03:42] Taylor Bogar: I actually think that, uh, I've had a couple businesses that I've had just over my lifetime, really small, like retail things.
[00:03:49] Taylor Bogar: I tried blogging for a while. I've always kind of had that, business owner itch. My father owned a business and started a small business in our town and, um, spent his whole life doing that. So I grew up watching him do that. And I think that kind of like. Permeated into my personality in some way.
[00:04:04] Taylor Bogar: And so, that entrepreneurial mindset is what made me really successful in my past roles, and I think made me confident enough to take the risk to go on my own. That said, it wasn't something where like, I left Apollo knowing I wanted to do this. I, Wanted to try. I kind of dipped my toes in freelancing and my first client that took me on as a freelancer after I left Apollo last year is still with me 18 months later.
[00:04:30] Taylor Bogar: and that relationship really showed me that like, yes, there is value in, what I'm doing, and yes, I can apply this in multiple different ways. And also templatize it in a way like the whole strategy. In a way that feels custom to who the client is. but also, you know, I would not be able to build a business around this if it wasn't.
[00:04:51] Taylor Bogar: Repeatable in some aspect. And so looking back a year ago, I didn't know that. And I think just being able to test, my strategies in different formats and at different companies has caused me to kind of think, oh, like this could be a business. Like this is something that's, you know, repeatable. And it was not easy.
[00:05:11] Taylor Bogar: The transition was not easy at all. Like you're catching me in a week where there has been tears. So it's still very difficult. I was actually talking to G about that yesterday. there's definite growing pains. It's taking on like a whole new risk, I think, where you don't have the security of a W2 if that security even exists in this day and age.
[00:05:31] Taylor Bogar: you know, I have the desire to just learn and like meet new people and test things I'm not risk averse at all. And so you have to kind of have the personality for it. But no matter what the pivot's hard, throw a 2-year-old in the mix, it's like sometimes I wake up and I'm like, what has my life become?
[00:05:47] Taylor Bogar: but I heard someone say, if you're, you know, thinking about quitting five days in a row in like a full week, maybe it's time to consider. Changing what you're doing, but I have not yet gotten to a place where I wake up five days in a row and wanna quit. if I get to that place, we'll see. But it's been a journey for sure.
[00:06:04] Jeff Reekers: Yeah, I love, love that approach of five days in a row. Uh, if I ever get to four,
[00:06:08] Taylor Bogar: Yeah. That's when you need to worry.
[00:06:11] Jeff Reekers: have a quick Yeah, yeah. Sanity check so I don't get to get quite to day five. last question kind of before we dive into all things on the customer marketing side and we, chat kids in, such quite a bit.
[00:06:20] Jeff Reekers: I guess starting a company and kids at the same time and being a parent, like how has that kind of shaped your approach to work and life and entrepreneurship and building a company and hopefully some, probably some ways, for better or for worse, but kinda how has that shaped your approach to everything
[00:06:34] Taylor Bogar: It's definitely my why. I think above all else, growing up watching my dad do it, I want my kids to have that same experience. thank God for my husband because he is like the steady Eddie of our family. I would not be able to jump into something like this if we did not have our study. Eddie, he's definitely like my other half and.
[00:06:52] Taylor Bogar: Provides the consistency mentally and like, obviously career wise. but I think that having Barrett definitely motivates me to keep going. I also think that it challenges me to be much more efficient, which is good for the pivot to agency. When you are working on your own, I mean, you know, time is money.
[00:07:18] Taylor Bogar: you have to make decisions more quickly. And now I'm like, I'd rather make a decision and have it be the wrong one and learn that in 24 hours than wait a week make the same decision and the result is the same and I've lost week. And so that's just like a total mindset shift that I think is an outcome of having the pressure of having, you know, to log off at four 30 every day.
[00:07:38] Taylor Bogar: You can't work late because you have a kid. and it's. Honestly led me to improve in areas that I absolutely needed to improve in to be a founder or, you know, a business leader that I didn't necessarily have to be challenged with before, if that makes sense. but it's also, I'm, I've never been more tired in my life, like I
[00:07:56] Taylor Bogar: survive on caffeine. I told my husband, I'm like, my body is in like a level 10 acidic state because I've had so much coffee. Like, do not bring me coffee.
[00:08:05] Jeff Reekers: your point on, um, like logging off at a specific time, and that's like the end of the day and kinda how that shifts your approach really resonates, you know, um, person that prior to that life, you know, I'd probably be at the office at like 11 o'clock at night back when everyone was in an office.
[00:08:19] Jeff Reekers: Then it's like you find a way to just be much more efficient, effective, prioritize better. so amazing to hear you say that as
[00:08:25] Taylor Bogar: Yeah. It's funny too 'cause I feel like when I was getting ready to have Barrett when I was pregnant, I was. Really observing how other women who were pregnant or had young kids at the same time as me would talk about work. And I find it really interesting 'cause it was always like. Oh, I log off at four and then I get back online at seven.
[00:08:45] Taylor Bogar: And I think to an extent, I thought that's how it would be for me. And I'm like, if I am logged off and I'm clocked out, I cannot get back into the zone. Like I cannot work late hours. So instead, I found that like it just adds more pressure during my workday. But I'm almost like, I like it that way because if I work after hours again, like.
[00:09:04] Taylor Bogar: Why am I doing this? I'm doing this to like have a, a life that I enjoy, not to like work myself into the ground. I'm like, I would rather it, take longer to be successful and, you know, get to my client billables goal and enjoy the journey. If I can at all, versus like just grind and grind and grind to like, do as much as I can as quickly as I can and like lose myself in the process, I guess.
[00:09:30] Taylor Bogar: So that's been interesting for me too. I don't know if you work after, uh, your sun goes down, but
[00:09:35] Jeff Reekers: really wanted to set the stage on all things from a. You know, people first mindset, which I know is really core to your ethos and marketing strategy and, and career.
[00:09:44] Jeff Reekers: and maybe just take us back a little bit. What, what drew you into customer marketing originally? Like what, kinda got you into that area. how does community kind of fit into that picture? And kind of just curious on that background, how you got into this area.
[00:09:55] Taylor Bogar: it's a multifaceted answer. So I think that I attribute a lot of my, success from truly Piper forward to my boss, Dan Mila, who hired me at Chili Piper. I had no customer marketing experience when I started there, and I think. If I'm correct, I started in 2022, which was not that long ago.
[00:10:13] Taylor Bogar: however, I have a background in sales, so I started my career, doing in-person sales. I was an intern at Nordstrom, and then I worked there for three or four years, ended up doing management and then pivoted into recruiting where I worked a full desk. I did recruiting and biz dev, and I think because I did,
[00:10:31] Taylor Bogar: Sales. it gave me the ability to communicate and like get to know people and really learn, you know, obviously on the sales side, how to, sell and how to communicate effectively and how to make people feel like you care about them. and I think that has helped me tremendously in my marketing career because I've always understood like the sales mentality and the challenges they face.
[00:10:53] Taylor Bogar: And then when I got into customer marketing, I was immediately like, this feels like. Sometimes I tell people it feels like your job is to network in the, within the customer base. Like your job is to figure out how to make customers like you lean on, you wanna share with you and like. How to share in their success.
[00:11:11] Taylor Bogar: And yes, you can scale that. Like the goal is obviously that I don't meet with one of every, you know, 1000 customers. That's not possible. But I do meet every client. I do meet with a handful of customers and try to develop relationships and figure out how the learnings that come from those relationships apply to the larger customer base so that I can build relationships, but also create programs and workflows for my clients that.
[00:11:38] Taylor Bogar: Are, a good indicator of what that small set of customers like needs or reacts to, or how they can serve you as a business.
[00:11:46] Jeff Reekers: Yeah. Incredible. And you, you've launched a lot of, I, I mentioned some of them when we, kicked this off, like the Apollo sales community, the, G-T-M-M-Y awards. I,
[00:11:55] Jeff Reekers: I'm saying that one right. G GTEs.
[00:11:57] Taylor Bogar: Yeah. No, it's hard to say. We went back and forth. I can't even tell you how much I went back and forth with design about how we're gonna spell it,
[00:12:04] Taylor Bogar: and it
[00:12:05] Taylor Bogar: obviously, there's no great way.
[00:12:07] Jeff Reekers: Yeah, many others beyond that, I'm sure as well. what's some sort of program campaign initiative, that really surpassed your expectations, whether it was in the customer marketing or community area, or social, what did you learn from it? what lessons have you taken from that, that now maybe you're now working with your clients on.
[00:12:23] Taylor Bogar: I would say my very first program that I was responsible for start to finish was the cab at Chili Piper. And it was one of those things in my career where I looked at it and it was this like behemoth looking back at me where I was like, I have no idea how I'm gonna do this. but like I said, uh, my boss, Dan ELA was.
[00:12:41] Taylor Bogar: And is like an incredible leader and was a great partner there. and so I think that experience helped me understand the power of customer marketing because a cab
[00:12:56] Taylor Bogar: feels like an advocacy program. so what we did was, to my knowledge, we were one of the first cabs to ever take this approach where we built cab groups.
[00:13:06] Taylor Bogar: We had multiple groups based on personas so that we were able to put people together that actually got value from the conversation they were having with each other versus just us telling them about our product and our roadmap. Like the goal was to approach it in a way that the cab members got value almost more so than we did.
[00:13:26] Taylor Bogar: and because we took that approach, it showed me how the different personas responded to different campaigns or different. Advocacy activations. and it got me to understand that like getting to know who the people are in the roles really affects how you build advocacy programs for them. obviously a CAB is much more than an advocacy program, but I think the cab had such incredible success and it was happening in a time where.
[00:13:58] Taylor Bogar: People were just starting to kind of build a following on LinkedIn and really investing in their personal brand. And we did everything we could to support them in doing that. And that looked really different from a rev ops persona to a marketing persona to like, even a marketing ops persona.
[00:14:13] Taylor Bogar: We also had an influencers group. the programming was different. For each group, even though we were all kind of talking about the same topics. it was very enlightening and I think it helped me understand how to build an advocacy program based on that.
[00:14:27] Jeff Reekers: let's kinda dive into the, the revenue piece a little bit. we talk revenue, whether it's community, whether it's it's social, whether it's customer marketing, whether the revenue part is sometimes, a little vague to folks on how to attach all those efforts back into like a tangible outcome.
[00:14:41] Jeff Reekers: though intuitively we know it's happening and I even think of Apollo as, as a one example. Apollo was a, a company with, you know, great LinkedIn presence for many years until some of the challenges, maybe more recently. but I remember becoming familiar through that.
[00:14:54] Jeff Reekers: And I know when we started Champion, it's just Apollo is top of mind. We need a platform for this, for contact information and, and so on. Paul was the first thing I thought to sign up with and we're, you know, customers of Apollo now, but nobody probably ever knew. We saw it through, through social, through customer marketing efforts or anything like this.
[00:15:13] Jeff Reekers: And now, you know, the revenue is generating on the other side of that through the brand that's been developed. Long-winded way of saying the attribution can be a big challenge, so how do you kind of work with your clients to bring your work back into a tangible revenue output and make that connective tissue.
[00:15:28] Taylor Bogar: it changes from client to client. I think that the first thing I look for is like, do you have a referral program? Because to me, if you have a well-functioning referral program, that is the fastest way. if your advocacy program is successful to me, rarely will this not be the case where the peak of your advocacy journey is someone referring you business.
[00:15:47] Taylor Bogar: And so if you have that in place. That's a direct way for me to attribute, the work we're doing to revenue. If you don't have that in place, we work on, you know, should we evaluate a tool or build this for you? And then on top of that, we get creative on how we can tangibly prove that the work we're doing is affecting the business outcomes that you care about.
[00:16:09] Taylor Bogar: I think that. With social animals specifically, it's unique in that a lot of the value that clients get out of the work that we do is by pulling the customer voice into social and into their, you know, pre-sale marketing strategy. and so that gets a little murky 'cause it's very difficult to attribute social performance directly to revenue.
[00:16:31] Taylor Bogar: You can measure things like, you know, how did you hear about us? Have an open text field and they can mention an influencer or tell you what channel they heard about you on. I think another great answer to that is like, I don't know where I heard about you. I just know about you. Kind of like you, where it's like, okay, that means that we're everywhere.
[00:16:47] Taylor Bogar: Like you don't know where you heard about us because we're everywhere. That's a great answer, but it doesn't show you that social is having a direct impact. So it's always something that's gonna be tough to solve. I think another. way that I've for one client, been able to prove our not direct revenue because a demand gen function had to be present for this to happen.
[00:17:06] Taylor Bogar: But, you know, the popular CMA thing is influenced revenue. I had a client that had no testimonials and so we built a testimonial workflow for them and they used three of those testimonials in social ads, The ads converted like 150 new customers and it ended up leading to $90,000 in revenue where they did not have those ads before.
[00:17:28] Taylor Bogar: And that revenue would not exist if it weren't for the testimonial workflow. and so that's the whole pitch is like your prospects wanna see themselves reflected in your marketing, and if your customer. Ideally, it's a good indicator of the prospect you wanna go after. Your customers should be doing your marketing for you.
[00:17:46] Taylor Bogar: you just have to, you know, make that ask. And, I think there are a lot of also, you know, lagging indicators that show, impact. But, directly tying to revenue is always challenging, especially if you introduce social into the mix.
[00:17:57] Jeff Reekers: you have a very unique perspective of working across many different clients and you can kind of.
[00:18:01] Jeff Reekers: Make the pattern recognition happen and all these sorts of things inherently for the companies that you see successful when they're investing in customer marketing, advocacy community, what are kinda the patterns behind that for companies that are doing things most successfully, whether it's like the approach tactics could even be mindset oriented and how they're investing, but what are some of the patterns that maybe aren't so obvious that you see in the companies that really make this an effective driver of business and growth for the company?
[00:18:30] Taylor Bogar: this is a mindset shift that I think happens as I do discovery and I, I think a big thing is a lot of leaders that have not had, Customer marketing as a function before, don't know how to look at it. And so education is a big piece. most of my clients have really small marketing teams, and I'm not replacing a customer marketer.
[00:18:48] Taylor Bogar: I'm coming in and building the foundation. so I think when I start talking with them, if they look at the customer as an endpoint and not a multiplier. They are not in the mindset to have customer marketing. Like they have to get into a mindset where like the relationship starts when the deal is closed.
[00:19:12] Taylor Bogar: that mindset has to be present, not just in like the VP of marketing or the CMO or whoever the marketing leader is, that has to be at a leader level. just from my experience. A lot of leaders just focus all of their, resources on presale and business development and, you know, generating demand.
[00:19:33] Taylor Bogar: And it's like, if you would just split it, it's like the outcome of investing in a customer that is already existing is, you know, five x what it would be if you invested that into, you know. Hiring another DG person. and so that mindset, I think is, is crucial in the customer marketer having success.
[00:19:54] Taylor Bogar: I think that beyond that, Having the interest to like get to know your customer on a personal level, my playbooks won't work. If you are not interested in learning who your customer is outside of the buyer, like let's figure out what they're doing outside of their nine to five. Let's figure out what is motivating to them to help them, you know?
[00:20:14] Taylor Bogar: Improve their career to help them get promoted. I have, stories about, you know, times at Apollo where we spent time to get to know our customers and were able to build programs that weren't necessarily, you know. Leading them to purchase Apollo or upsell or anything. But instead we helped them get promoted and now, you know, the person that got promoted attributes that promotion to Apollo.
[00:20:35] Taylor Bogar: and he's gonna go on and have an amazing career in sales. he's always gonna think about us because we helped him get promoted. And those are the things that are longstanding. Have impact and lead to more revenue, versus, you know, trying to send an email because they clicked a button that shows they're interested in using a new tool or something.
[00:20:54] Jeff Reekers: I love that because it's genuine and it's about giving before. Before getting, and aren't we all just better off in the end if, if that's how we approach business as a
[00:21:02] Jeff Reekers: whole? But, but maybe for that, maybe for that leader that's like at that phase where they know, and I, I have a lot of conversations exactly what you mentioned, like
[00:21:09] Jeff Reekers: So many are investing so much in demand gen and I think we're at a unique time right now where a lot of companies are being, are struggling to achieve the growth that they once did and are looking for new areas. And so it kind of conceptually makes sense to a lot of CMOs marketing leaders out there, but they don't really know where.
[00:21:27] Jeff Reekers: To start. Exactly. And you mentioned some playbooks earlier. If there's any sort of like marketing leaders that are in that point, maybe they're struggling to, to grow, struggling with pipeline, they're thinking about advocacy or customer marketing, like where would you advise them to start?
[00:21:40] Taylor Bogar: I would advise them three things. Number one, either the marketing leader or whoever is gonna take on. The customer marketing strategy needs to get in a room one-on-one with a customer to just get to know them. It's not about how much you love our product, it's not about, how big of a customer you are.
[00:21:59] Taylor Bogar: It's not about the outcome being a case study or testimonial. It truly is like, get them in a room and ask them questions that help you understand who they are. And make sure though, in those interviews that you're choosing customers that are, A reflection of your larger ICP, not just your be best, biggest customer that has the most seats.
[00:22:22] Taylor Bogar: Like that's important. It's important to know, you know, why they bought and who they are. But ultimately you're gonna have a couple of those whales, most of your revenue ideally, will come from, whatever segment you're really truly trying to sell into. So talk with those customers. get to know them.
[00:22:38] Taylor Bogar: The outcome of that is that that information should inform how you approach your marketing and also how you are investing in them. and then a step beyond that, this is number two, is take, you know, those interview questions or, use those learnings to inform some type of influence survey that you can send out to your larger customer base.
[00:23:00] Taylor Bogar: Obviously you can't meet with everyone one-on-one, as we talked about earlier. And let them tell you where they're spending time like. Who's your favorite influencer to follow? Like, even if it's someone totally random that has nothing to do with B2B, we wanna know who that is. You'd be surprised, like a lot of,
[00:23:17] Taylor Bogar: salespeople spend time scrolling on TikTok, you know, and it's like, if you're not on TikTok, you're missing a huge opportunity to catch them in a moment where they're like. Captive because if you're on LinkedIn during the day, like you're kind of mindlessly scrolling.
[00:23:30] Taylor Bogar: I was actually talking with a friend how she's like, I scrolled while I'm on meetings, so like video doesn't work because I can't turn the sound on. And that tells me, I'm like, okay, all these brands are trying to create videos, but the people are not able to watch them because they're on LinkedIn during the business day.
[00:23:43] Taylor Bogar: They're able to watch 'em on TikTok, you know, when they've v logged off for the evening. So it's little insights like that that you're not gonna get if you're not spending time. getting to know who your customers are and instead making assumptions. and this is where copying competitors really hurts you because.
[00:23:59] Taylor Bogar: They're making assumptions most likely. and then the third thing is, try as quickly as you can to start making your customer the hero of the story. I think that that's a really easy thing to say, but it's like what a lot of people are like, oh, what does that even mean? Like, what is the customer voice?
[00:24:14] Taylor Bogar: I it's kind of a nuanced, like big idea, but it means like, give your customers opportunities to talk about you and incentivize them to do it. I think a lot of people, are like, oh, well, if it's not natural, it's not organic. It's like there's no shame in, you know, offering a piece of swag or something to incentivize them to film a short video.
[00:24:33] Taylor Bogar: they will. submit these videos and immediately you'll get social proof that you can use on your social channel so that you can start moving into a place where your prospects are seeing themselves reflected in your marketing because it's a human face versus you talking all day about how great your product is.
[00:24:49] Jeff Reekers: the thing that really pops out in my, my mind across all that is, first we're gearing this towards customer marketing, which, which it is, but so much what you say is just marketing. Like start with the customer and true empathy for the customer and understand them.
[00:25:02] Jeff Reekers: And that's gonna lead and dictate the channels, the tactics that you end up using. In the end. They think so much in B2B particularly, like we get stuck on. Demand gen marketing channels, like tactics, like we're gonna
[00:25:15] Jeff Reekers: invest in this tactic over here, this channel and attribution, versus just understanding the customer and their, their life and their journey.
[00:25:22] Jeff Reekers: And then you can figure out the best sort of mix to get in front of them and really champion them, in the end. So just love that approach with just thinking it from an empathy mindset first.
[00:25:31] Taylor Bogar: Yeah, that's such a good point. I actually saw a video this morning from a marketing leader somewhere in the uk, and she was talking about how frustrating it is that marketing feels like it's becoming so focused on tactics and not as focused on like the message, the like structure of the marketing strategy and like the exploratory stuff because t.
[00:25:50] Taylor Bogar: Lead to attribution and like, that's what leaders care about. And another interesting thing I was talking with someone about is like with the introduction of agents, I've heard some marketing leaders say like, I'm not as interested in attribution anymore. And I'm like, well, no, duh. If you're using agents.
[00:26:07] Taylor Bogar: It's cheap, and you don't need to prove that cost. Like you're not trying to argue the cost of having a full-time headcount. And so it's like measurement, almost cannibalizes, you know, creativity in a way. not to say it's not valuable, but if you're over indexing on that, your customer is not the center of the story like your attribution is, you're not gonna win if that's your approach.
[00:26:27] Jeff Reekers: directional versus like ruling, you know, like I won't be governed by the attribution, but can get directional insights from it. Great. You know? so I totally agree with you there, that you can almost get too fixated on these perfect channels. It kind of stems up from the board.
[00:26:41] Jeff Reekers: They want this perfect attribution model that they can pour money into and scale, and Maybe it exists out there, I don't know. It feels, seems like it does not exist.
[00:26:49] Taylor Bogar: But it's almost like you spend so much time on it that I'm like, is this even worth
[00:26:52] Taylor Bogar: the money? Like you're spending more time trying to attribute than like we're
[00:26:55] Taylor Bogar: actually spending on the program.
[00:26:57] Jeff Reekers: couple final things, Taylor, and we'll wrap it up from here. Hot takes. We all love the hot takes. It's gotta have a hot take at the end of this. what's a trend in marketing, cluster marketing community that you think is overrated right now?
[00:27:07] Taylor Bogar: Oh, I can tell you one that I think is Underrated is I want LinkedIn to be more fun. Like there's this trend that's going around, called weird LinkedIn and I'm just loving it. And I think that,some creators right now are getting so creative with video, with memes. I think that's a big thing that social animal brings into the mix for clients is like, we wanna have fun, lean into satire, let's.
[00:27:29] Taylor Bogar: Find a common enemy with your ICP and go after them. Obviously not a competitor, like a different enemy. unless that's your vibe, like, I don't know. but my hot take is that like we need to chill on LinkedIn and be less, you know, buttoned up and professional and be real people. especially now that everyone's using chat GPT to write their content.
[00:27:49] Taylor Bogar: It's so obvious that you're not writing this. and I'm a millennial. I'm not an elder millennial, but I'm a millennial. I'm a buyer. Like this is, you know, someone that would be making, buying decisions telling you that like, if you are creative, your content will win.
[00:28:03] Taylor Bogar: And we need to like demystify being stuffy on LinkedIn. That's my hot take.
[00:28:06] Jeff Reekers: Love it. And then let's wrap up here. Who's one customer marketing leader you think we should have on this podcast or that you'd love to hear on this podcast?
[00:28:14] Taylor Bogar: Oh, Dan Mila.
[00:28:16] Jeff Reekers: All right.
[00:28:16] Taylor Bogar: I would call him a community leader. He is an expert in customer marketing, but the way he thinks about psychology, I feel like I learned a lot of my, relationship building approaches from him with customer marketing is so fascinating. I think that you would love that conversation.
[00:28:31] Jeff Reekers: All right, Dan, I've seen your content online, so you
[00:28:34] Taylor Bogar: Yeah,
[00:28:34] Jeff Reekers: an outreach from me, uh, at this
[00:28:36] Taylor Bogar: I'll make him say yes.
[00:28:37] Taylor Bogar: He owe, he owes me like a million favors. So Dan, I'm cashing one in.
[00:28:41] Jeff Reekers: Perfect. Okay, Taylor. I think I've, I've expressed this to you. I never know how to exactly end the podcast episodes. I always like, it's always like this, what do I do with my hands type of thing.
[00:28:51] Jeff Reekers: So I'll just say, I
[00:28:52] Jeff Reekers: appreciate so much you joining, us today and, and for the, the half hour here. Tons of amazing insights. Appreciate all things. If somebody wants to learn more about social animal, any tips on best ways to reach you or engage with you
[00:29:05] Taylor Bogar: Look me up on LinkedIn. I'm knee deep in Alexander Hamilton skits right now, so I don't know if you've seen of Jeff, but my creative juice, I have not slept this week 'cause I've been up filming tiktoks all week. So.
[00:29:15] Jeff Reekers: Amazing. Amazing. Well if you get this years from now and you wanna reach out to Taylor, make sure to cite something wrong. Alex Alexander s
[00:29:21] Jeff Reekers: been there. But thanks so much Taylor. Appreciate you having on having you on today.
[00:29:24] Taylor Bogar: Yeah. Thanks for having me.
[00:29:26] Jeff Reekers: