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Technology's daily show (formerly the Technology Brothers Podcast). Streaming live on X and YouTube from 11 - 2 PM PST Monday - Friday. Available on X, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube.
You're watching TVPN.
Speaker 2:Monday, 09/22/2025. We are live from the TVPN UltraDome, the temple of technology, the fortress of finance,
Speaker 1:the capital, the capital.
Speaker 2:Sam Altman and Matthew McConaughey defined the weekend in my world, on my timeline, two former Joe Rogan guests. Interestingly, only Sam Altman has done Theo Vaughn, and only Sam Altman has done Tucker Carlson. Matthew McConaughey has gotten snubbed by those two. But hopefully, we'll get we'll get McConaughey on Theo eventually. But until then, Sam is the loan of the pair to do Match
Speaker 1:McConaughey on Theo Vaughan. Theo.
Speaker 2:It feels like a match made in heaven. Theo. Sam obviously did well on the show. And but they both were talking about AI and caused, you know, a stir, predictions, debate, and I thought it'd be interesting to weave through it. So, Sam Altman kicked off with a post here.
Speaker 2:He says, time is money. Save both. Easy use corporate cards, bill payment, accounting, and a whole lot more all over the place. He said go to ramp.com. No.
Speaker 2:He didn't. That's fake news. But we love ramp.com, and so head over to ramp.com. No. What Sam actually said was over the next few weeks, we are launching some new compute intensive offerings
Speaker 1:There we go.
Speaker 2:Because of the associated costs. Some features On will be only be available to pro subscribers. That's me. That's me. And some new products will have additional fees.
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting. Extra monetization. Our intention remains to drive the cost of intelligence down as aggressively as we can and make our services widely available, and we are confident we will get there over time. But we also wanna learn what's possible when we throw a lot of compute at today's model costs at an interesting at interesting new ideas. So there were lots of debate over what he's gonna launch.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile, Matthew McConaughey was over on Joe Rogan saying that he wants a private LLM fed only with his books, notes, journals, and aspirations so he can ask it questions and get answers based solely on that information without any outside influence. Can we play the Matthew McConaughey clip? Because he had a very interesting phrase. I thought it was very funny. He doesn't say he doesn't say, fine tune on this He wants to log He wants to log it in.
Speaker 2:We'll hear it from him. Let's go to Matthew McCormick.
Speaker 3:Though, in a private LLM where I can upload, hey. Here's three books I've written. Here's my other favorite books.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Right. My favorite articles I've been cutting and pasting over the ten years and log all that in.
Speaker 2:Log all that in.
Speaker 3:And here's all my journals
Speaker 2:Log in.
Speaker 3:Wherever the people out and log all that Log it in. So I can ask
Speaker 2:you questions
Speaker 3:based on that. Right. And basically learn more about myself. Right. I stand on the political spectrum.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:Right. Right. Blah blah
Speaker 1:blah blah. I'd like to
Speaker 3:no. That's that's what I'm would like to do, which is sort of a glorified Word document. Mhmm. But it still would hold a lot more information. A great And just, oh, can you turn
Speaker 2:this off?
Speaker 3:Be asking it.
Speaker 2:This is this is an important consumer. This is the next big market of consumers.
Speaker 3:With the information I'd like to load it with.
Speaker 5:Right. Yeah. Maybe even
Speaker 3:like I'm saying in this in the words of belief. In in the in the man I'm working to be, the man
Speaker 2:I'm the current state of LLMs are meeting his needs, and that's really, really important. If you're OpenAI, you wanna become the biggest company in the world. You want everyone to use your products.
Speaker 3:Yep. It's slowly learning about me through conversations, then going, oh, I think this is what you like based on a conversation. No. I want the answers based on what I've uploaded it with only, not from the outside world.
Speaker 2:And he probably uses he probably uses Instagram and has has an Instagram is personalized, does give him a a unique view on things he likes and has become very good at at servicing exactly what he wants. Well, if he wants to log in, should log in to Restream. One livestream, 30 plus destinations, multistream to reach your audience, wherever they are. But so I took this as just this like, there's this interesting battle going on between how much personalization and how has personalization actually surfaced to the user? Like, lot of people in the replies
Speaker 1:Are you getting value out of memory function today?
Speaker 2:No. I don't feel like I am. I feel like it remembers little facts about me and then weaves those in basically in awkward moments. But it's still chat GPT. Like, it's still the voice
Speaker 1:every of feels like it's been broadly overhyped. Right? This is So far, yes. What people were saying was ultimately going to be the moat for LLMs. It's like, why would you switch LLM?
Speaker 1:This new LLM doesn't know anything about you. Yes. But to date, I haven't same with you. I have an experience feeling like I am so locked into this LLM because it knows everything about me. Yes.
Speaker 1:Knows me better than the next product.
Speaker 2:Yes. It remembers facts. So if you've asked it to fix your car and you told it what model car you have and then you just mentioned like, My car won't start, it'll remember what car that is. But it doesn't develop a unique personality. It's always the same, and that lends itself to a specific flavor of using em dashes, using bullet points.
Speaker 2:It it it's not this. It's that, that type of syntax. And some people love that. Like, we saw that Reddit loved four o very clearly. And a lot of us were surprised.
Speaker 2:We were like, really? Is this real? Is this fake? Like, what's going on? People are really upset that four o's going away.
Speaker 2:Was calling with four
Speaker 1:they changed course.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and and they brought it back. And the same thing happened in teapot with Claude three point five Sonnet. Everyone was saying, oh, Sonnet is the Tyler, did you like Sonnet three point five? Were you a Sonnet head?
Speaker 4:Yeah. And I mean, was a funeral for Sonnet.
Speaker 2:There was a funeral? Yeah. Did they deprecate it? Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize that.
Speaker 4:Well, actually, it was Clod three. Was like the original one that people were like, oh my gosh, I love Clod.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. It had a very specific personality. And I feel like the future and, like, the goal with personalization should be everyone gets that experience. Everyone gets their own over time, the model shapes and morphs into something that has a personality that you really vibe with.
Speaker 2:Very much like if you go around the world, like, how many people do you meet before you find someone who, like, you wanna start a show with or a podcast with. Right? Like, it takes a lot to be like, the this person really gels with my personality, and their personality is changing a little bit as I interact with them and vice versa. Like, that type of interaction, it happens over a very long time of meeting a lot of people and deciding who is the best fit, who do you vibe with, right? And so two years ago, Sam Altman stood on stage at OpenAI Dev Day.
Speaker 2:This was in 2023, which feels like a decade ago at this point, and announced custom GPTs and a GPT store. And the idea was fine tuning was going to be done by a creator. Yeah. And I was going to be able to do exactly what Matthew McConaughey is describing, go in, load up Matthew McConaughey's books, load up the Bible, load up a bunch of other interviews with him, everything about his worldview, our notes, journals, all of that stuff, create a custom GPT. It could be private or it could be public, and then other people could choose to interact with it.
Speaker 2:And over the past two years, that just hasn't happened. I I looked at the top of the of the ChatGPT app store, and it's the number one is astrology birth chart GPT. Number two is Scholar GPT. It builds in Google Scholar, PubMed, BioArchive, Archive. Then there's a fitness workout diet coach.
Speaker 2:Yes. Humanized AI that's trying to write more human like content, an image generator, and an image generator pro. And so I'm sure these are great, but they certainly haven't broken through to where they are the default. By in general, when I want to use AI or ChatGPT, I open the app. I open my phone.
Speaker 2:I start talking to it. I might throw in a link to an article to give it a little bit more context. I might add some flavor on how what level of depth I want to go to, but I'm not going and creating custom GPTs. I'm satisfied with the current results, but at the same time, I don't feel like it's personalized. Like, I feel like if I picked up your ChatGPT right now and said the exact same thing, give me a deep dive on the new CEOs of Oracle, I was interested in that, I wanted a deep research report, I feel like I if I take my prompt, I put it in your ChatGPT, I'm getting the exact same result.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:Basically. Even though, obviously, it's not fully deterministic, it might be slightly different words, but I feel like the flavor of the personality will be the same because we are me and you, even though we speak to ChatGPT differently, we are interacting with, like, the same personality. And personalization just means remembering a few facts. So it might address you as Jordy and me as John, but it's not fundamentally going to be a different style. And I was wondering about, like, how does that actually at what level do I want to it
Speaker 1:I'm at at a point where I'm testing
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're testing it.
Speaker 1:Different models. And I can get the same value out of a bunch of different deep research products. And that says a lot because I think ultimately the value of deep research products have already stabilized to the point where, yes, if you were to compare two line by line, of them would be objectively the best. Yeah. But you're getting the core value out of it, which is just a great summary of events or whatever you're researching.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So a lot of it comes down to, like, speed and user interface. I I tend to like the current ChatGPT voice mode more than Gemini, but, Gemini's deep research product is fantastic, and it's faster. And so I'm gonna close my phone for twenty minutes, but I like being able to just pull up the voice mode. And I feel like the Gemini app currently kinda jumps the gun on ending the voice note, whereas Yeah.
Speaker 2:With ChatGPT, I feel like I can ramble a little bit more, add more context, and then and then end it and then edit it if I need to. Like, I've just kind of baked into that flow. But I agree with you. Like, they both feel like the same personality. They might have memorized a few facts, but they're not really creating a purse a different personality where, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:My my ChatGPT is like a is like a particular a particular character that's very different from yours. And I think I think the future and what and what would be sort of, like, you know, inference heavy or or GPU compute intensive might be every time, like, really doing thoughtful roll ups and developing that personality over time for every user so that you don't just have Reddit loves four o and Teapot loves Claude 3.5 Sonnet. You have every single person loves their individual Chatchipiti instance and would be would be distraught if it changed because they're very satisfied with it. And as a function, you don't you can't leave. You don't want to leave because everyone has that feeling of like, well, I've invested all this time.
Speaker 2:It knows it doesn't just know things about me because I can go to a different model and say, here's the car I drive. Here's my age. Here's my here's some data. Like, put you know, I I I could just import, you know, all sorts of podcasts I've done and stuff. Like, it's easy to, like, get the facts.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But it's not that easy to understand the flavor of LLM interaction that I'm looking for, what actually is sticky. And that feels like it all feeds into lower churn. So I think that's sort of the goal. I don't think you will
Speaker 1:It also just actually logging Again, the bigger dividing line is, are you using AI for knowledge retrieval and purely functional tasks? Yep. Or are you using it as a friend like product?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 1:And I still believe that if you're in the first camp and it's function and knowledge retrieval, that the personality just doesn't matter that much. Right?
Speaker 2:I I still think that there's a little bit of personality that I think is it's somewhat important in the sense of, like, of, like, knowing where I like to dive deeper in the deep research, where I like to stay at a high level. Like, if I'm doing a deep research report, I'm I'm often I'm often prompting it with, write it like a New Yorker article, try and pull real quotes, real anecdotes, show me who the people were behind this decision. I don't like just a fact, fact, fact. I actually really, really detest you ask for the history of a business and they say, Microsoft launched this. Apple launched the iPhone.
Speaker 2:Like, I don't believe that Apple exists. Apple didn't launch the iPhone. Like, Steve Jobs and a group of people who operate within a structure called Apple launched the iPhone. And I wanna hear the story of the people that did that thing, not the abstract press release machine that you get from, like, you know, the corporate
Speaker 1:You know, know, you
Speaker 2:announced Yeah.
Speaker 1:A personalization tab last week.
Speaker 2:Tab? No. Didn't know about
Speaker 1:this. This is in buried in the settings page.
Speaker 2:Okay. Yes. I I I've seen
Speaker 4:that You tab
Speaker 1:can enable customization so that you can customize the model Yeah. Effectively in the chat. Yep. And then you can set different personalities. So there's default, which is cheerful and adaptive, cynic, critical and sarcastic Interesting.
Speaker 1:Robot Robot. Blunt, clanker, listener, and which is thoughtful and supportive exploratory and enthusiastic. Then you can do custom instructions to make it sound Gen Z, I guess.
Speaker 2:Had I have I have some custom instructions. Shooting. Years ago, someone posted like, here are here are the best things to clean up your chatty bitty. But they were all like these prompt injection things like, Mistakes erode my trust, so be accurate and thorough. Provide detailed explanations.
Speaker 2:I'm comfortable with lots of detail. Value good arguments over authorities. The sources are relevant. And I don't know if I no moral lectures. No need to disclose you're an AI.
Speaker 2:Some of these are useful. I don't know. I'll probably take these out of there. What should GPT call you? So they're definitely working on this.
Speaker 2:I just wonder I I think I turned this off after after I asked it to tell me a joke, and the joke was, like, hyper specific about my particular car. And I was like, this is kind of cool, but it's not really funnier. I don't know. Let's see. I'm gonna turn I'm gonna turn personalization back on, but clear out those custom instructions and see see how my my ChatGPT experience is.
Speaker 2:But there are obviously much more. There are many more just like down the fairway features that people are expecting. So Sora two with audio and four k, people kind of expect that Sora I've comped Sora to v o three. V o three is dramatically better. Sora2 is still very or Sora1 is still very hallucinatory, but it's like a year old at this point.
Speaker 2:So they probably should be catching up to the frontier there. Of course, that's
Speaker 1:extremely And you would expect Google to be in the lead here purely because of the YouTube?
Speaker 2:I would think so, too. Hopefully, Chet hopefully, the OpenAI team has figured out a way to get up to the benchmarks. I've seen other companies that aren't Google Yeah. Produce v o three level results. So I would expect that SOAR2 is close to VO3 quality somehow.
Speaker 2:I don't know how they got the data. Yeah. Might have bought it from somewhere, might have done a whole bunch of different things. There's a lot of ways that they could have gotten a ton of video tagged data. But that is something that I wouldn't be surprised if it's some new products that have additional fees.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't be surprised if the SORA two generations are so expensive that they actually just tell you like, Hey, it's $2 every time. Because they should have learned from the Google situation, which was, I paid $250 on a $500 a month plan. I signed up for a $500 a month plan. I haven't churned. And you're still capping me with these crazy rate limits, and you're just not taking my money.
Speaker 2:And you're a huge company, like, there's got to be a way. And there was a way. It was like, go to the API and do all this. But I was like, I want it in the app. I want to be just consumer, prosumer level and at least have the option to just continue prompting and light the GPUs on fire.
Speaker 2:Just find the fair market price, Find the market clearing price for what the value of those GPUs are right now. Maybe it's $50, a a prompt. And then and then I can decide. I I can decide. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm using this for work. This is going out on my my professional
Speaker 1:On your random card.
Speaker 2:Yeah. On my on my TV show. And, like, it's worth $50. Maybe the market clearing price is much lower. But it should be above the value of running those GPUs, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Image two, they currently have GPT image one, and they're expecting like an answer to Nano Banana edits, better text rendering. The text rendering is already fantastic in images in ChachippiTi. But I wouldn't be surprised if that comes out. Nano Banana for video in Sora two, so the ability to upload a video, change it, or kick off a frame and change that. ChatGPT agent two, this is interesting.
Speaker 2:Agent is something that I feel like should get baked into the model router at some point. Like, you should just be able to like, right now, if you hit ChatGPT with a query, it will say, oh, I'm thinking longer for a better answer.
Speaker 1:Really wanna get a better sense. Has has operator been a total flop?
Speaker 2:Operator's gone. Operator doesn't exist anymore. It's now Agent. But Agent mode Agent uses mode uses Operator. I use Agent, yes.
Speaker 2:I've used it a few times.
Speaker 1:But it's for deep research.
Speaker 2:You could think about it like deep research, but instead of just pulling a bunch of text together, actually go and navigate actually go try to navigate a bunch of websites. So I was looking for a new breakfast spot for us. This is real. I wanted high protein options. I said, Here's where I work.
Speaker 2:Here's where I go to the gym. I'd like a survey of high protein options. So go look on a map, figure out what's in the area, go and pull the actual menus, and build me the perfect diet plan to get me fully bulked this season, because it's bulking season. And Chad should be like, oh, we know it's bulking season.
Speaker 1:We are.
Speaker 2:Don't have to tell us. We're super intelligent.
Speaker 1:We're Wasn't born under a data living under Of a data
Speaker 2:you're bulking. It's September. But so I've used it, but not a lot. And it's never been something that's been able to be triggered just from the default prompt.
Speaker 1:Because it It's is not taking actions. It's still just collecting information.
Speaker 2:I mean, what's an action? It takes the action of opening a web page and scraping out the data. It takes the action of, like, defeating CAPTCHA is very clear. It's clearly at war with the CAPTCHA. But, yes, I think you're right, taking actions, ChatGPT agent two.
Speaker 2:What we would expect I don't know if it's coming in the next eight
Speaker 1:memo they gave. Yeah. They were booking flights.
Speaker 2:Wait. When? Weren't they booking In the demo?
Speaker 1:In the demo on GPT-five day, or was one before that?
Speaker 2:Don't know if they've ever showed a demo of them actually booking a flight. But it's clearly coming. I think it'll be with their specific partners that have opted in. And so if you look at the OpenAI partnerships list, there are a few companies that have said, yes, we'd love to partner with you. And so I wouldn't be surprised if something like DoorDash is is fully integrated in a way that you will be able to order through ChatGPT.
Speaker 2:And I think that'll be very interesting.
Speaker 1:Yep. So July 17 Yes. They said introducing ChatGPT agent bridging research and and action. And they specifically said, in your personal life, you can use it to effortlessly plan and book travel itineraries, design and book entire dinner parties, or find specialists and schedule appointments. So all I'm saying is, like, we haven't like, that's not really happening yet.
Speaker 2:No. And so we might see something there. It's unclear how much of this is, like, Dev Day because if the if if Sam is really saying over the next few weeks and he's really just teasing Dev Day, Dev Day could be much more oriented around companies that are planning to build on top. But, again, if you wanna integrate with ChatGPT agent, maybe there's an agent update, and then that flows into how your company can integrate with with ChatGPT agent. There's other there's other predictions that we might get the model that won the IMO, and there might be an enhanced voice mode.
Speaker 2:Clearly
Speaker 1:Is Diego predicting enhanced voice mode twenty four seven?
Speaker 2:I don't know what that means. Just leave it on all the time?
Speaker 1:Just leave it on.
Speaker 2:People are already kind of doing that. I have noticed that some of the voice modes, if you leave them running for a long time, they get kind of crazy. Yeah. Like, even just having the voice mode try and read you a full deep research report, I've had a lot of problems with where after a minute of it reading, it just kind of like gets lost and it can't stick with it. And I don't know if it's just like the Internet connection that I'm on or something, but I've struggled many times to actually get it to read it.
Speaker 2:And then also it gets really confused by the citations and stuff. It's been ups and downs. But Greg Brockman posts that OpenAI has released a large scale study on how people are using Chateappity. Consumer adoption has broadened beyond early user groups and lots of economic value
Speaker 1:This is the one that leaked Yes. Almost like more than a week ago.
Speaker 2:It's cool because he's using the leaked image, which I I don't know if it's leaked. I think it's, like, from a court case or something. But it's it's interesting because it's that image is not in the blog post that he links to, but it is in his post on X because he knows that this is the one that people wanna dig into. I thought it was a good good good use of of of, you know, posting. And so we we've talked about this before, but it is really is really evenly split.
Speaker 2:Practical guidance, 28%. Seeking information, 21%. Writing, 28%. Like, there are
Speaker 1:very Multimedia at 6%. Yeah. Unknown at four point that's ominous.
Speaker 2:Unknown. What are you doing?
Speaker 4:That's self
Speaker 1:expression at 4.3
Speaker 6:That's Tyler.
Speaker 2:You know that's Tyler getting weird in chat GVT.
Speaker 4:Technical games in a hallway.
Speaker 2:Stay away from that. Stay away from that. Data analysis and mathematical calculation, computer programming. Computer programming is 4.2. Of course, we are partnered with Cognition, the makers of Devon.
Speaker 2:Devon, the AI software engineer, crush your backlog with personal AI engineering team. With your personal engine AI engineering team. Anyway, it'll be fun to see what they actually launch. There's so many different directions they can go. They have a lot of territory carved out, a lot of different irons in the fire.
Speaker 1:I wish we could see their just overall usage chart now that school's back in session. Because you remember it just, like, fell off a cliff.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I I I don't know how much to read into that, the falling off the cliff. I don't know if
Speaker 1:you They're saying 28% of ChatGPT activity is just writing. So obviously, that's a lot of professionals. Yeah. That's a lot
Speaker 2:of students. Maybe now that summer's over is better than school's back in session. I don't think that you can get to the ChatGPT numbers, the DAUs, purely on the back of college students. Like, I think a lot of people are using this at work. Yeah.
Speaker 2:A lot of people aren't working during the summer. And so
Speaker 1:Writing lessons.
Speaker 2:People didn't get the memo about locking in in August. They had to wait until September. It's embarrassing.
Speaker 1:I feel bad.
Speaker 2:Anyway, one of our newest sponsors, Privy, wallet infrastructure for every bank. Privy makes it easy to build on crypto rails securely, sign up white spin up white label wallets, sign transactions that integrate with on chain infrastructure all through one simple API.
Speaker 1:I we are
Speaker 7:a huge
Speaker 1:fan of
Speaker 4:the what do you call it?
Speaker 1:Hit it. Hit it, Nick. Hit it.
Speaker 2:The bike horn. It's a bike horn.
Speaker 1:Brandon. Brandon, let's let's the bell and the horn. Need them to get We
Speaker 5:need them Yeah. That was a little a So
Speaker 2:Rune is talking. There's a ton more going on in
Speaker 1:Rune, this guy's got his fingers in a lot of pies.
Speaker 2:He does have his fingers in a lot of pies. A ton of pies, this guy, Rune. He says the jump from GPT four to five codex is just massive for those who can see it. Codex is an alien juggernaut just itching to become superhuman, feeling the long awaited takeoff. There's very little doubt that the data center CapEx will not go to waste.
Speaker 2:And Nick Carter said, you heard the man. Data center CapEx is justified. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Speaker 1:Huge relief. Huge relief.
Speaker 2:Huge relief. We I was worried. We were worried. We were calling the top. We did it prematurely.
Speaker 2:We're we're still we're still at the at the early stages. We're so
Speaker 1:all the top. We just said there were top signals. There were there
Speaker 8:were some top signals.
Speaker 1:There were signs.
Speaker 2:But we kept riding on.
Speaker 1:We ride on.
Speaker 2:We ride on. Accelerate Harder says, place your bets. We, of course, will be betting. We need to get some Polymarkets up on what OpenAI launches. We are, of course, powered by Polymarket.
Speaker 2:You can see them down in the ticker. There's some other a lot of people are a lot of people are, are kind of coalescing around GPT Image two, SOAR two with audiovideo, improved memory as a separate paid on. I wonder if that would be the separate paid add on. I would switch and say, Sora two will be a separate paid add on because that's really expensive. The improved memory, I feel like they can't
Speaker 1:They can't. That's doesn't feel
Speaker 2:like can't a charge that. It's so it's so unclear what you get. Like, the beauty of v o three is you go and get three of them, and you're like, I need more of this. But personalization is something that you're going to feel over a long time. It's going to be very, very slow.
Speaker 2:Like, it's not going to be like a wow moment on day one. Right? So I don't know why you'd be like, I pay
Speaker 1:for it. What they need. They need that to reduce churn. $100 a month
Speaker 2:A 100%. Over a And so I feel like the personalization, knowing knowing what shoes you wanna buy, that's just that pays for itself. The hard thing is if someone's going there and being like, I'm gonna generate a two hour movie, and it's gonna cost $10,000 in GPU credits, they need to charge you for that. And then the the other is a question about how how much of this will hit plus users over what time period. Zephyr says multi agent RL systems for consumers.
Speaker 2:I think we're starting to see that with some of the ordering APIs, some of the codecs and agent stuff. I'm very interested. I was playing around with codecs earlier today a little bit. I'm interested to see how it The
Speaker 1:vibes gets to the have been?
Speaker 2:I mean, I was just watching an interview with Dylan Patel and a podcaster. And this particular individual was extremely bullish on Codex and had moved a ton of work from Claude Code over to Codex. And so I You should watch you ever watch
Speaker 1:the did you see the Claude, Claude ad? We should pull up that Pull it up. I put it in the timeline. Let's let's watch it.
Speaker 2:That was Andrew Curran, the last prediction here. Compute intensive almost means almost certainly means Sora two, which would mean Sora two will be pro exclusive at launch. Google similarly offers full v o three for ultra subscribers only. These models are insanely expensive to run. Prediction native sound fifteen second clips.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That would be an interesting way for them to differentiate would be go a little bit longer on the clip. V o three is at eight seconds. If they do it's fifteen seconds. It's almost twice as long.
Speaker 2:Could be a
Speaker 1:little bit Does VO a three do sound?
Speaker 2:V o three does do sound. And it does it it does it pretty well. And they had a little bit of a pop moment. And I could imagine the OpenAI team really, really popping on Sora two, some cool new features, especially if they figure out how what is the killer use case? What's the really iconic thing?
Speaker 2:What's the prompt that anyone can do and get a great video out of? With VO3, a lot of creators came with cool ideas and then wound up getting great results. But with DALL E or with Images and Chateappiti, it was like the Studio Ghibli moment. And so if OpenAI can work backwards from like, what is something that every single person could do, like upload your profile picture and turn it into a video or something like that, something where everyone has to go and do it for themselves to see what it looks like, that could be a really big viral moment for them. Anyway, we are going to be monitoring that.
Speaker 2:And in the meantime, let's watch this new video from Anthropic.
Speaker 3:Problem has never been worse now. Problem has has never never been
Speaker 1:worse
Speaker 3:now. Problem never been
Speaker 2:Fast paced cuts. I like the color editing. Color graders. There's never been a better time. Let's go.
Speaker 2:Time to have a problem.
Speaker 1:Never been a better time to have a problem.
Speaker 2:To be overwhelmed. It's kinda true. The robots useful. The client crews are helping you solve your problems. Out of your debt.
Speaker 2:Out of breath. Anthropic really has just has developed, like, their own brand world now. When they'd started doing those those billboards in London or something, we were very confused. But this is getting to a point where
Speaker 1:They went from having some of the worst ads to now this is a this is a great ad.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And this really really stands in contrast to the OpenAI Super Bowl ad, was very it was like this black sun thing. It was like this pointillism, black circles. This is very rich colors, warm tones, feels very human, actually. It it it does not
Speaker 1:feel feels
Speaker 2:cold. This does not feel clanker coated.
Speaker 1:Apple evolved.
Speaker 2:Totally. Yeah. A little red color.
Speaker 1:Feel like that shot of the piano Yeah. That would that was exploding. But it's backwards. And it's going backwards.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They're solving the piano. They're recreating
Speaker 1:the piano. Like it. They're crushing it.
Speaker 2:So hats off to everyone at Anthropic for
Speaker 1:Yeah. But does this does this It's tells me not not giving up on consumer. Right?
Speaker 2:That I mean, that could work for a B2B ad. That could just be like, the vibes are good at this company. Let's continue working together in the enterprise to drive shareholder value. Can watch that and be like, okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2:The Claude Code bill came through this month, and I'm happy with it.
Speaker 1:Let's Yeah.
Speaker 2:Let's keep it up. What do
Speaker 1:think, Tyler? It's it's very positioned as, like, don't just think of us as a
Speaker 2:Those were consumer use cases. Yeah. What what what do you think, Tyler?
Speaker 4:Yes. So over the weekend, my roommates at I I so I live at UCLA Yeah. With bunch of students there. They were telling me at a We
Speaker 2:get it. We get it. You don't need to, like, make a big deal out of it. We get
Speaker 4:it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You live at UCLA, it's not that big of a deal.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So so at the football game, they said
Speaker 2:We we get it. You went to a football game. No.
Speaker 1:I didn't know. I was at their college You
Speaker 2:get it. You're a college
Speaker 4:I was
Speaker 1:not at the
Speaker 8:football game.
Speaker 4:But there was
Speaker 1:round of applause for Tyler.
Speaker 2:Wow. Okay. Yeah. Living the college dream. I'm like these washed up podcasters over here just rubbing it in so young.
Speaker 2:He's got his whole
Speaker 1:life ahead of bright future ahead of you. Okay.
Speaker 4:But so there's an ad for Anthropic at the football game. Okay. Wait. What do you mean? Like like on Like on the jerseys?
Speaker 4:No. It was like on I think it was on like the like the big screen. What are they called? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Big screen. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And And they were like, oh, what is this company? None of them had ever heard of it. They were like, oh, it's like slept on, like, Claude. They don't want you to know about this.
Speaker 4:So I think there's some consumer thing going on, at least among students.
Speaker 2:The war for the
Speaker 4:consumer Last maybe isn't semester, Anthropoc was pushing pretty hard. They have a student, some kind of plan that's super cheap. They're giving out free subscriptions. So I think they might be aiming towards that demographic a little bit.
Speaker 2:I wonder if they'll find a point of differentiation somehow. I mean, Google like, Gemini has such a great point of differentiation in consumer in the sense that, like, you're already on Gmail. You can plug in there. Like, the plug ins have been slow, but, like, you can bootstrap a ton of personalization and just a ton of extra functionality from saying from properly integrating Gemini to the rest of your Google apps. Are you watching this chat?
Speaker 9:Chat says
Speaker 1:like People are into it. Mr. Morales says, let me guess. Tyler had a beer. Hopefully not.
Speaker 1:He's not 21.
Speaker 2:Anyway Hopefully But Claude doesn't seem like they have the ability to bootstrap personalization. I mean, the real killer I feel like the killer use case or in consumer would be if there's a flow where you download the app and when you go to prompt it, it's more willing to write code and it's more willing to write better code, I feel like that could be something that would actually break through. I keep thinking about when I hit deep research like, we talked to Doug O'Laughlin about this, and he said that he's getting sometimes better results out of clawed code than deep research just for actual research tasks. And so I tried this, and I said, Go build me a I went to Claude code, and I said, Go build me a deep research report about a topic but then instantiate it in a HTML web page. And so it gets the ability to use it to to to use all the different HTML five building blocks.
Speaker 2:So it can create a table if it wants. It can create a pie chart. It can bold pull in JavaScript. It can create bar charts. It can do everything that you can do on HTML.
Speaker 2:It was very cool. And I felt like I saw a glimpse of the future where if I go to Claude and I ask it a question, hey, teach me Econ 101, it could build software that's actually interactive to teach me that topic on the fly. And that might be something that leverages what Anthropic seems to be very good at, which is coding.
Speaker 1:Give me a deep research report. But as I scroll, give me the maximum amount of dopamine.
Speaker 2:There we go.
Speaker 1:Give me flashing lights and Yeah. And sound effects.
Speaker 2:I don't know. What do you think?
Speaker 4:I think there's something else where, like, Claude is basically the only, like, company or it's anthropic, but, like, Claude is, like, very personified. Like, people think of, like, Claude is, like, a person almost. Like Yeah. At least on on, like, Twitter and, like, you know, SF people. Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's like Claude is like a person
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Where Chat2bT is like a tool.
Speaker 2:Which is fascinating because it's it's it's such a throwback because in the previous era of voice interfaces or, like, AI, we had Siri, Alexa. There were a few others.
Speaker 4:There's AskJeeves stuff,
Speaker 2:like a OG. AskJeeves. Even Samsung, I think, has Bixby,
Speaker 1:which was Bard.
Speaker 2:Bard, which was very much supposed to be, like, a person. And then a lot of the companies pulled back from that. And opening, I just said it's just trash EBT. We're we're not giving it a name. And then Gemini came out.
Speaker 2:And Gemini doesn't feel like a you're you're not supposed to say, hey, Gemini, really. Like, it's just kind of it's it's just a model. Right?
Speaker 1:You don't say Gemi, Gem, Gem?
Speaker 2:No. I don't and I certainly hasn't caught on. And so anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do think this ad for Anthropic around problem solving they've earned making that a pillar of their marketing by having so much success in cogen. So I like the ad. We like the ad.
Speaker 2:If you want to develop some software, if you want to design something, head over to figma.com. Think bigger, build faster. Figma helps design and development teams build great products together.
Speaker 1:What was this post shoot at the server room during evacuation?
Speaker 2:Oh, this is just best practices in AI case
Speaker 1:is Is this something that Vanta recommends?
Speaker 2:Yes. If you're not compliant and the and the feds
Speaker 1:are gonna You're gonna bust get evacuated you just you don't have
Speaker 2:you don't have SOC
Speaker 1:rocket into your
Speaker 2:Go to Vanta automatic automate compliance, manage risk, prove trust continuously. Vanta's trust management platform takes the manual work out of your security compliance process and replaces it with continuous automation. Yes. And so I I think this is from a war zone where there is a lot of data stored in the server room. And so if you are evacuating, shoot this rocket launcher at the at the server room so that the enemy combatants can't steal your data, can't steal all the intel All your plays.
Speaker 2:All your plays. Yeah. Pretty crazy. But imagine how good it would feel to fire that bad boy off at a server room. Just take that clanker.
Speaker 1:Especially especially if you were the the engineer that had to like maintain it over time and it was giving you a lot of problems.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:You could you could take out the clankers without you know, for good reason.
Speaker 2:It it feels like that scene in in, you haven't seen the movie, in Office Space where they smash the the printer. I have seen. You've seen Office Space?
Speaker 1:I that's one of my dad's
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 1:One of dad's favorite movies. Never. Fantastic film.
Speaker 2:Jordy's third movie.
Speaker 1:My The Dapora. The equivalent of my the equivalent of my stapler is my headset. Okay. When I when I get here and
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. You need your headset. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You put it
Speaker 2:on and So ranking my my Jordy Hayes movies. We've seen Bora. We've seen Mountain Head, and we've seen
Speaker 1:The three. Those are the three the films.
Speaker 2:Mike Judge is a genius. And you know what else is genius? Graphite. Dev, code review for the age of AI. Graphite helps teams on GitHub ship higher quality software faster.
Speaker 2:We're also monitoring the situation of private tech markets. It's never been better to be a show focused on the private markets. OpenAI leads private markets surge as seven tech startups reach combined $1,300,000,000,000 valuation.
Speaker 1:What are the other what are the other
Speaker 2:It's gotta be OpenAI, Anthropic, SpaceX, AxAI
Speaker 1:Handrail.
Speaker 2:Ramp, Vanta, Julius, Fall, all of our sponsors, basically. We need the combined market cap of all of our sponsors. We need
Speaker 1:That's a good That's
Speaker 2:key that's a that's KPI for us. We gotta get those numbers up.
Speaker 1:We get those numbers. Tyler, new project. By the way It's doubled last Friday. I I I jokingly told Tyler build a sound board.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Did he?
Speaker 1:And he did. Wow. And it's fantastic. He he had a working version by the time the show was over on Friday. He took my he took my ask very literally.
Speaker 1:Said, just get it done in like, I don't know, like fifteen, twenty minutes. You did it. And he basically did it.
Speaker 2:What was your
Speaker 1:But we're gonna release it soon and it looks fantastic. So you guys will be able to use our sound sound board in your own meetings. Okay. So if if, you know, somebody announces a couple positive things, you can personally go,
Speaker 3:I don't care.
Speaker 1:It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Your boss announces layoffs. Bo, keep us on staff.
Speaker 1:Yep. It's good to have. Good to have.
Speaker 2:Oh, we raised a growth round? Friendly IPO inbound.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's highly functional. It's highly Oh,
Speaker 2:are new fundraising rounds leaking? Large journalistic force headed towards you. Standby.
Speaker 1:And we're going to be adding a lot more.
Speaker 2:Oh, we're struggling paying we're struggling to pay our sales tax this quarter?
Speaker 1:Sales tax AGI.
Speaker 2:Sales tax AGI. I actually want to talk about the numeral thing. Let me find that in here. It's deeper. But we gotta get to this.
Speaker 2:So numeral came on the show. They're a partner. Love that. I used them. Sam.
Speaker 1:Absolute Chad.
Speaker 2:Put on a put on a clinic. Interestingly so there's there's been a debate. The timeline was in turmoil. Is is sales tax boring? We obviously think no.
Speaker 2:I think Sam put on a great performance and just kinda took us through, like, what it's like raising right now in the market. And
Speaker 1:He was also honest about his cloud costs going up dramatically.
Speaker 2:Totally. And so, he he shared, the announcement. He says, I'm thrilled to share that numerals raised the $35,000,000 series b led by Mayfield at a $350,000,000 valuation. Turns out sales tax and VAT have gotten so complex that we need AI and millions of dollars in VC funding to make it simple again. This brings us to $57,000,000 in funding.
Speaker 2:And so, he he tags the investors. He went on a press tour. He came on our show, talked about this. And and levels.io got a little snippy with him, quote tweeted it, and said, you can often predict a company's course if their announcements talk more about how much investment they got than their product. If I'd raised $50,000,000, maybe I'd not even tweet it just to use it to improve the product and get more users and talk about that.
Speaker 2:Having money in the bank tells me absolutely nothing about why I should use your product. It's not my money. It's your money. And so I I think
Speaker 1:And and I and I just I I disagree with this on multiple levels. Like, one, if you're building software for businesses it's very helpful to communicate that we have a lot of a lot of funding doesn't guarantee anything. But it's a vote of it's showing that smart people have confidence that you're going to create a lot of value in the future. Just be around for long great products for customers. Two, as a business, your job is to take anything that you do and make it newsworthy.
Speaker 1:Yep. Fundraises are are are easy.
Speaker 2:Hires, trade deals?
Speaker 1:Hires. Yeah. Trade deals. Partnerships. Job is to just take anything that's going on and make it make it newsworthy, make, you know, take another opportunity.
Speaker 1:The most bearish thing is as a company, a company that launches once. Right? The best companies launch over and over and over. Yep. They're not like, oh, I'm gonna launch and then I'm just gonna be quiet and do my thing.
Speaker 1:Yep. Just make the product a little bit better every day. Yep. It's like, you have a new feature, you have a new hire, you have a fundraise, you have a profile, right? It's like launch, launch, launch, launch, launch.
Speaker 1:Yep. And Levels, obviously, you know, a a a great builder. Yeah. And we should have him on the show. But it's it's, you know, he just is like hates venture capital, you know, so much.
Speaker 1:And I think before he knocks it, he should try it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, the the other thing that Levels launches like like, the most recent product that he got to go really viral was this, like, amazing vibe coded game in the browser that anyone could just click and try. Like, massive TAM for that product. Right? Anyone can be like, oh, I know Flight Simulator.
Speaker 2:I've been on a plane. I wanna fly around. I'll click this button. Right? And it was an interesting business story, it and was an interesting product and it looked cool and it was a demonstration of vibe coating.
Speaker 2:He's done a few other products that have been like visual. One was an interior design product that you could take a picture of your empty apartment and then put furniture in it. And that is something that also will naturally sort of go more viral than, Okay, we launched VAT compliance, right? Like sales tax is not as sexy. It's not as something that people just even if you do improve the product, it's not inherently viral.
Speaker 2:And so you if you're in B2B software and enterprise software, like you do have to take advantage of fundraising announcements to drum up a bunch of support and just make people aware of you because there that natural virality that comes from, Okay, you put you landed a rocket. That's just something that everyone wants to see. You built a humanoid robot. You built a drone. You blew something up.
Speaker 2:There's an explosion. There's something beautiful, an image that people want to see. And so I agree that you should focus on the product, but to to not take advantage of fundraising milestones as a b to b company is is a mistake, and you should actually definitely run the playbook. Ajani Midha over at Andreessen had a different take. He said, true for the median startup, but it's dangerously wrong for frontier technology companies.
Speaker 2:Capital is a weapon. He's just making the case for raising money. But I think the I think the the other case is just that when you're in B2B, you need to be taking advantage of the business story, and the business story is the fundraising story. And so you have to deliver on that very well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And and and Levels is just playing a totally different game.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Which is fine.
Speaker 1:He makes hundreds There's nothing wrong with playing
Speaker 2:that particular game.
Speaker 1:It's great. I think he probably makes a 100 couple few $100,000 a month in, like, profit
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 6:It does great.
Speaker 1:For his businesses. But he's not really creating enterprise value. Yep. Right? A lot of his businesses would probably sell for maybe like a one one one x revenue or something like that, which is which is great.
Speaker 1:But he's just playing a totally different game. Yeah. Sam is playing a game where he takes a modest salary and he built and he's and he's trying to build a company that will one day be worth billions of dollars.
Speaker 2:Yep. And
Speaker 1:and capital Yeah. You know, again, even the best businesses in the world end up tapping the capital markets and and just being, like, default against using financing in any form Yeah. Is just silly.
Speaker 2:Great tool for the job. Well, Apple's foundation model running on a iPhone 17 Pro has demoed. I don't know how this got out, but it seems like maybe this is already shipping. I don't know if this is a developer preview or something, but it looks very fast. Adrian Grondin says, Apple was not joking.
Speaker 2:The a 19 pro chip is really good for running LLMs. Let's let's look at this video. I think we have it pulled up. So he types in a prompt, it just spits this out. And I apparently, is on device.
Speaker 2:This is on device inference. And so a lot of people are saying, like, Apple's gonna win. I don't know that this is what does it for them to get them to, like, win, you know, AI. But it certainly Yeah.
Speaker 1:What is what is Apple Foundation Do we know?
Speaker 2:Apparently, I mean, it sounds like it's some sort of foundation model that they've trained internally, and they're running locally on their device, some sort of distilled model. Do you have any insight on this, Tyler? Like, have you have you been tracking this at all?
Speaker 4:I don't know exactly. I mean, it must be a super small model. Because even I mean, the, like, RAM is still, like, only, like, 12 gauge or something.
Speaker 2:I thought it was more. I thought they went up to 16 on this last one.
Speaker 4:Oh, really? I thought they went from eight to 12. Eight to 12. I could be wrong.
Speaker 1:I thought was seven sixteen.
Speaker 2:Pro memory. Let's see.
Speaker 4:But I think also, like, it's hard to say that, like, oh, Apple is gonna win because, like, if you look at the median person using LMs, they're not optimizing for, like, speed of the LM. They're using, like, optimizing for the intelligence.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You're right. 12 gigs. Yeah. That's not that much.
Speaker 2:Tricky. I still think that the end of the road is some sort of partnership with OpenAI or Gemini taking a cut, just getting the actual because
Speaker 4:I think it makes sense to do some kind of router where for like if you can kind of figure out how typical the task is, then you run it locally. Then for complex things, send it off to OpenAI. Yeah. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, right now, there's supposed to be a router in Apple Intelligence. But when I hit it, it's rough. It's not tuned up properly. Like, it it it seems to go all over the place.
Speaker 2:And then also, they have this weird model that even if you go to Apple Intelligence and you say, I'd like you to go to ChatGPT and and ask this deeper question. You have to click a button and say, yes, actually send that to ChatGPT. It's like a privacy thing. But it's clearly just like an extra barrier to adoption. And so I wind up just opening the ChatGPT app, which is fine, I guess, but I'd like a deeper integration there.
Speaker 2:I don't know. We'll keep monitoring it. Julius, what analysis do you wanna run? Chat with your data and get expert level insights in seconds to ask Julius to analyze your data and then loved by over 2,000,000 people and trusted by individuals at Princeton, BCG The and the three d world models, Paki has a post here. He says, after watching a bunch of the three d world demos this week, the thing that struck me walking around this morning is how shockingly high resolution the world is.
Speaker 2:You can zoom in your attention on any little thing and find an astonishing amount of detail. This, of course, is a fully generated model. This is from World Labs. This is Fei Fei Li's project.
Speaker 1:Except for this turbopuffer fish. I mean, this thing is pixelated.
Speaker 2:In on this. Yeah. Can we go to Geordie's wide?
Speaker 1:Way less Way less detail.
Speaker 2:What's going on here? Yeah. This is not rendering.
Speaker 1:Not rendering fully, but we're working on it.
Speaker 2:Don't think so.
Speaker 1:We're trying to get a real a real puffer fish.
Speaker 2:Love Turbo Puffer. We yeah. This world model, the fully generated one. The other one that was cool was the at the Metaconnect event, they launched the ability to create a is it a is it a Gaussian splat? Is that what it is?
Speaker 4:Yeah. I is it I think it's Gaussian. Right?
Speaker 2:Gaussian?
Speaker 4:Gauss.
Speaker 2:Gauss. Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's named after Gauss. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Gaussian I I wanna have Tyler create one of the UltraDome.
Speaker 4:Yeah. You can do it with the Quest. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You can it with Quest.
Speaker 4:Quest three. So
Speaker 1:yeah. It's very it's very cool. Yeah. You feel like you're you very much feel like you are when you're wearing the headset, you feel like you're in the actual Kitchen or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. It was You were getting emotional? Yeah. It was because I looked over, there were two sets of pancakes for kids, and I have twins.
Speaker 2:And so I was like, wow. This actually makes me miss my kids, which was remarkable. At the same time, there was no game mechanic, and I don't know that there's that many places that I'd actually want to go and see. I liked in Apple Vision Pro that there were multiple really scenic like, you could go and watch a movie on the top of a mountain, or you could be in the desert and be using your computer. But I very much wouldn't just wanna hang out on the top of a mountain.
Speaker 2:I would want to be watching a movie on top of a mountain. It was like a cool environment. So the environments need to be really cool. I feel like there'll be some sort of power law of like the best environments, and there'll be a few. But I like the idea of people being able to scan and share their rooms and walk around.
Speaker 2:But I would be surprised, even if we put up on the Meta Quest I don't know if you can actually share your scans yet. That's clearly coming. But even if we scan the UltraDome and share it with people, the audience members that have a Quest III or Quest III S that would they'd probably go poke around in it for like two minutes and then be like, Okay, I'm done. Yeah, that was cool. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1:Been there. There.
Speaker 2:Done that. I've been there. Done that. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well,
Speaker 1:speaking of meta, Buko Capital says, got a laugh from Zuck talking about the AI infra bubble. He's basically like, quote, yeah, history shows we can't help it. We'll overbuild, use too much debt, then it will explode, which which proves to be a great time to buy distressed assets. Wait. Maybe AI is different, though.
Speaker 1:IDK.
Speaker 2:This is a great interpretation of Alex
Speaker 1:Spieth's Yeah.
Speaker 2:Interview with Mark Zuckerberg.
Speaker 1:Again, Mark is in a good position in that he could miss spend a couple 100,000,000,000 and be
Speaker 2:The business will churn on for sure. Yeah. Continue to generate tons of cash flow.
Speaker 1:We didn't even cover NVIDIA plans to invest a $100,000,000,000 into OpenAI. Yep.
Speaker 2:This news broke today.
Speaker 1:And NVIDIA Sophie NetCap Girl says, NVIDIA up a billion percent on the news that it'll invest in a company that will use the money to buy more GPUs.
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 1:NVIDIA is up three, almost 4% today. Broadcom is down.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is this feels like just we're one step down the path to the original Stargate plan. Like, the original Stargate plan was very much Sam Altman creating a multiyear plan to spend something like $500,000,000,000 and there were gonna be a number of parties involved. Obviously, you need a lot of chips from NVIDIA. You need a lot of Oracle infrastructure. You need a data center.
Speaker 2:You need energy. And so all of those partnerships are coming together. Interestingly, today, it's not like NVIDIA wired some money or sent some chips or anything like that. This is a letter of intent, which is funny to see at this scale because it's like a famous YC thing is that you say like, oh, we got a huge letter of intent for this thing. But at the same time, like, I think at this scale, like, letters of intent are, like, pretty serious, and you should take it pretty seriously that everyone's planning.
Speaker 2:And as long as as long as all the different pieces fall into place, like, everything should should work. Like, as long as the investors say, I'm good for my 100,000,000,000 and Oracle says they're good for this timeline. 100,000,000,000 NVIDIA says they're good to produce a 100,000,000,000 of chips. You're gonna get the 500,000,000,000 together. Like, the more the capital will
Speaker 1:I gotta get graphic for
Speaker 2:you to
Speaker 1:and pull this up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. While we're pulling that up, let me tell you about Fall, the generative media platform for developers, the world's best generative image, video, and audio models all in one place, develop and fine tune models and with serverless GPUs and on demand clusters.
Speaker 1:Look at this. Look at this beautiful graphic. Wall Street loves
Speaker 2:Wall Street loves fifth time I've seen this graphic. We saw this exact same graphic yesterday with or last week
Speaker 1:It's with applicable in the current state of technology. I give you money. You give it back to me.
Speaker 2:It is crazy. I mean, there were times when Mark Zuckerberg was a LP in a venture fund that would invest in a company that would buy Facebook ads, but it was, like, six degrees of separation, and the economy was not nearly as circular. The these deals are very much, like, I hand you money, and you hand it directly back to me. But, I mean, at the end of the day, what really matters is usage. I mean, we should be tracking how much if ARR starts to slow, if DAUs start to slow, then all bets are off.
Speaker 2:But if we continue to see acceleration in Anthropix enterprise numbers and OpenAI's consumer numbers, it's all justified, I think.
Speaker 5:I don't know.
Speaker 1:This account, Soli Omar says so let me get this right. Oracle says OpenAI committed 3,000,000,000 for cloud compute. Oracle stock jumps 36%, best day since 1992. Oracle runs on NVIDIA GPUs, has to buy billions in chips from NVIDIA. NVIDIA just announced they're investing 100,000,000,000 in OpenAI.
Speaker 1:OpenAI uses that money to pay Oracle, who pays NVIDIA, who invests in OpenAI.
Speaker 2:A little circular.
Speaker 1:Good fun. Good fun.
Speaker 2:It's a little circular. We'll see. But Carlota Perez, the goat of financial bubbles, has weighed in. She is quoting a post from Colossus, Patrick O'Shaughnessy's publication. Carlota says, A brilliant tour de force about AI from the investor's point of view.
Speaker 2:And the author compares AI with a personal computer and containerships fully understanding the life cycle of all revolutionary technologies. We will have to dig into this article. It's called AI Will Not Make You Rich. If you're not subscribed to Colossus, head over and get a physical copy. It's by Jerry Newman in the September 2025 issue, in issue four of Colossus Mag.
Speaker 2:The disruption is real. It's also predictable, he says. So this is a longer article. I wanna read through it. We don't have time today.
Speaker 2:We will get to it in the future. We might come back to it later in the show today. Who knows? But let's skip through that, and in the meantime, you about Turbo Puffer. You saw the pixelated Turbo Puffer fish, search every byte, serverless vector and full text search, built from first principles on object storage, fast, 10x cheaper, and extremely scalable.
Speaker 1:Just buy Linear, Notion
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:A bunch
Speaker 1:of other great companies to build AI products.
Speaker 2:We also have a post from Elon Musk. He says, Grok can now read aloud in a beautiful voice. Love pull this up if possible.
Speaker 1:Test it.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm it's so funny. The brand of Grock is so chaotic at this point that I don't know if I'm expecting a girl's voice or a German's voice. It could be any
Speaker 1:What what what is it called when people, like, talk into the mic, you know? Oh, ASMR. ASMR. If it's just like an ASMR
Speaker 2:Is hydrogen fuel good? A good idea? Let's play this. I wanna hear what it sounds like. Let's see.
Speaker 2:Do we have it?
Speaker 10:Is hydrogen fuel a good idea? Hydrogen fuel is clean, zero tailpipe emissions, and useful for niche cases like heavy industry or long haul transport. But it's inefficient.
Speaker 2:Actually just sounds good.
Speaker 10:40% round trip efficiency.
Speaker 1:And it sounds like
Speaker 2:The normal voice looks completely smooth. Like
Speaker 10:And lacks infrastructure.
Speaker 4:You can definitely its AIs.
Speaker 8:Global speed.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You can tell it's AI, but It's
Speaker 10:not ideal
Speaker 4:for definitely not the best voice
Speaker 10:ever. Cars.
Speaker 2:What's the best voice
Speaker 4:energy losses and safety challenges? Probably something from eleven Labs.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:No. Seem to still kind of be in the
Speaker 2:modern Yeah. I I was I was very uncertain on, like, how I mean, we talked to Mati about this, but I was very uncertain on, like, how eleven Labs would maintain any sort of moat around the foundation model companies. But it feels like they're being they're basically trying to be the the mid journey of voice, where it's just this this opinionated artistic vision that leads to something that you can't quite just instantly optimize against. You know it when you see it. You try a bunch of things.
Speaker 2:What do
Speaker 5:think?
Speaker 4:I think another thing is I believe they have a product where you can, like, clone a voice Yeah. Which none of the other labs seem to do, I think, because of, like, legal stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But, I mean, Siri was initially cloned. Like, there is a there is a woman whose voice is the voice of Siri. You would think you would just hire someone with a good voice and then just say, hey, we're gonna license this, and we're gonna pay you a royalty, and let's get a contract in place. And there's some some voice actor out there who's like, I would love to be the voice of Claude or the voice of
Speaker 4:No. I mean that, like
Speaker 2:Like, why don't
Speaker 4:you think Like, on Eleven Labs, I can make my voice.
Speaker 2:Okay. Okay. And and and that's and you just wanna listen to yourself that much that you it has
Speaker 4:to true? I'm not I don't do that for me, but I could make someone who is, like, a good speaker
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Read something, who has, like, a nice voice. Okay. Like, I I don't think other labs do that because it's like there's a whole thing about her with Scott
Speaker 2:Gates and with Scott But I would just think that if if if the Grok team wants a particularly beautiful voice to read things aloud that they would go and find a particularly great voice artist and then clone it. You don't think that's what they're doing?
Speaker 1:No. I don't think somebody should hire David Senra. That'd be very good. It'd be very good. Well, without further ado, let's bring in our first guest.
Speaker 1:Who you got? John Shahidi.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the stream. How are doing? Good to meet you in person. Thanks so much for coming on
Speaker 5:the show. Good
Speaker 2:to see you.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Nice to you.
Speaker 2:Welcome. Thank you. We have a podcast mic for you. Why don't you kick us off with an introduction? Tell everyone who you are.
Speaker 5:Yeah. How you doing? Well, it's good to meet everybody. Yeah. And, yeah, I'm John Shahidi.
Speaker 5:I created the Shots Podcast Network, which is a podcast network that hosts a number of different podcasts. Then we also incubate and create different brands Full Send Brand, Happy Dad Brand, Ranger, Cut Jerky. And I think our business model really now moving forward is just to create brands and treat brands like we treat creators.
Speaker 2:What's the methodology for deciding what categories are ripe for a new brand?
Speaker 5:I think you've to look at I have a lot of thoughts on that, actually.
Speaker 2:I talked to a guy who said he literally walks through he's more of a scientist, doesn't do any creative partnerships. But he will walk through the grocery store and just look at the aisle and be like, okay. This aisle is dominated by Unilever and P and G. I don't wanna play in it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But when he finds a spot, he found the popcorn aisle, which is there's a little section of the grocery store popcorn. And Orville Redenbacher is the only player. It's like a 200 year old company.
Speaker 1:He's like, I'm coming.
Speaker 2:I'm coming to lunch. Their lunch because he knows that they're gonna be a little bit sleepier. He's gonna be able to play in that category. And he launched a product and got it to, like, I think, like, 10,000,000 ARR. Did pretty well.
Speaker 2:But anyway, how do you think about, like, white space in brands?
Speaker 5:I think you could also go after the big boys.
Speaker 2:I mean, we
Speaker 5:did that with Happy Dad.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 5:You know? Like, we went after
Speaker 2:White Claw High Noon. Right?
Speaker 5:White Claw High Noon, the big beer companies who still Sure. To this day haven't been able to figure it out Yeah. Buds and Coronas.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What give people a sense of the it's funny because I think people see Happy Dad everywhere, but maybe don't have a sense of, like, the scale and and kind of the velocity even.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I'll get into that. I'm gonna just answer this one So real I think the big thing you have to do is look at a category that could use disruption. Mhmm. You know, with Happy Dad, you know, we looked at, you know, back in 2021, people wanted better for you drinks.
Speaker 5:But most of the better for you drinks that were coming out, like the White Claws are truly, were really catering towards women. So it wasn't necessarily cool to drink a hard seltzer if you were at a party or whatnot. We said, alright, so how do we go after this category but bring a different demographic into the category?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 5:And I think that's where you could also, going back to what we were just talking about was, you know, even getting into these other spaces, whether it's popcorn, pizza, how do you bring a new customer into that category, which is what we did with Happy Dad. We partnered with Nelk Yep. And we said, alright, now how do we make this cool amongst men? The branding of it, you know, the liquid in it is, you know, one gram
Speaker 2:of sugar,
Speaker 3:200
Speaker 5:calories a can. It's a seltzer. It's a seltzer. But then when you look at the Happy Dad can, which I'm surprised you guys don't have here, you have every single brand
Speaker 2:in that fridge.
Speaker 1:Well, don't We have my boys coming We actually don't
Speaker 2:We don't drink at work.
Speaker 1:No alcohol in the No. Yeah. Champagne infrequently. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1:If you guys
Speaker 5:This is light alcohol. We could send some here.
Speaker 2:Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Will send some to you.
Speaker 2:I'm sure the boys would take you up on it
Speaker 1:on a Friday. On a Friday.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Not a Monday 12PM.
Speaker 2:No. A little bit early. I
Speaker 5:don't know. But, yeah, think that's what we did. We said, alright. How do we how do we look at this seltzer category and how do we bring males into it? Mhmm.
Speaker 5:The branding of the product looks like a beer, feels like a beer. It's in a regular 12 ounce can. Doing these tours amongst different bar towns or even different colleges, and just catering towards the male audience. So I think you could get into these different businesses if you could bring a different profile person into that category, whether you wanna go against Unilever's or Nestle's or, in our case, you know, Coors and Anheuser Busch and Constellation Brands or Boston Beer. So
Speaker 1:Talk about I think it it's a lot of people that have like a creator audience will think, okay, I have a bunch of people that watch my content online. I'm gonna create a product that I can sell to them via e commerce. That seems like it hasn't really been the approach to date for Shots and Full Send and NELC broadly. Feels like it's in retail early. Retail first, basically.
Speaker 2:You don't have to do it with alcohol, though. Right?
Speaker 5:Well Well,
Speaker 1:alcohol yeah. Alcohol, but I'm but I mean, in general, like a lot of people would say, okay, NALK should launch a product that they can sell online Yep. To as many people as possible. And going retail first is just a lot harder.
Speaker 5:Are these all live?
Speaker 2:Yeah. These are live.
Speaker 5:These are Oh, yeah. Shout out
Speaker 1:to says, bro, this guy is one of the most legendary managers
Speaker 5:is of this? All time. Discord? What
Speaker 1:is this? It's all we get all the Restream. All the chats into one Yeah. Via restream.
Speaker 2:YouTube's the primary Alright.
Speaker 5:Chat with the place. Okay.
Speaker 1:Cool. You
Speaker 2:can say what happened.
Speaker 5:So, yeah. Happy that we can't sell online Yeah. Unfortunately. I mean, you it's through third parties.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You can do a
Speaker 1:little a of because selling liquid online is not super profitable.
Speaker 5:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's something we talk about too. You know, we've looked into getting to other categories of beverages and, yeah, selling, you know, energy drinks or water.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:It's very expensive, you know. Even when you look at, like, Amazon and all the different, you know, Amazon fulfillment center fees and all that stuff, it gets pretty pricey. But, yeah, I think the the one thing I do I don't wanna say with Happy Dad, you know, the the challenge has been my expertise has been online marketing my whole life. You know, marketing a YouTube channel, a YouTube video, a Spotify link, Instagram, Snapchat. The challenge with Happy Dad has been we can't do that because, you know, I mean, you could buy it on Gopa for Instacart Yeah.
Speaker 5:Third parties. But, yeah, it's there's no Shopify. There's no Amazon store. But it's also and I got this bit of advice from Dana White when we first launched the product. He said, you know, with Happy Dad, there's a multi tier system where you have to use a third party distributor to distribute the product.
Speaker 5:He said that distributor you know, this is back in 2021. He told me that distributor is going to wanna own relationships with all the retailers.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 5:He said, I'm gonna give you and your brother Sam a bit of advice. Don't let any third party own that relationship. Mhmm. Treat these retailers like you've treated these platforms. So, like, we have, like, the best relationships with YouTube and Snap and Meta and Spotify, Apple, you know, all the different platforms.
Speaker 5:He said, treat Walmart like you treat YouTube. Treat Kroger's like you treat Meta. Treat seven Eleven.
Speaker 1:So even if you're selling through distributor, you're still building a relationship the end retailer Yes. And like spending time with them and Correct. And you're not you don't care that at the end of the day when they're signing a purchase order
Speaker 5:Yeah. Well then, we tell the distributor like, here. We actually did the work. We we the Circle K guys, we spent the weekend with them. Great guys.
Speaker 5:They're in. They wanna bring all these different SKUs into your store. Here you go. They're like, well, you know, we know people no. No.
Speaker 5:No. It's the done deal. Like, you just deliver for us, please.
Speaker 2:How how do you think about the you're familiar with the term Nimsel, right? Niche Internet Micro Celebrity. This idea that you can be running a profitable business full time, like have a thousand true fans, have a business, but not be so broad that you're like a Tom Cruise level celebrity. And there's been this trend of, like, smaller and smaller nichefication. Like, I know someone who has I think they have a million followers on YouTube.
Speaker 2:I can't even remember his name because he's so, like, niche. Just and all he does is talk about Notion, using Notion to manage your life. And he sells Notion templates, and he makes a fortune. And I'm wondering about how you think about, like, the smallest brand opportunity, whether you think, like, you have to be able to go national at some point or there's, like, room for smaller, more niche creators to still create some sort of brand that breaks through, or, like, what the trade offs might be for a creator that has a really, really dedicated audience of like 50,000 people. So you're never going to be in Kroger with that product and really or they're not going to really bootstrap Kroger Yeah.
Speaker 2:Unless your audience is like VP at unless you're like the vice president of purchasing podcast or something like that.
Speaker 5:Well, think, you know, always say I mean, Nelk was very niche at the time. Right? I mean, they've obviously become more of a household name since
Speaker 2:'20 Just like in that college demo?
Speaker 5:Yeah. I mean, they were most people, when we launched Happy Dad, we said, hey, we partnered with the Nelk Boys. We're launching a seltzer. And I would say nine out of 10, maybe 10 out of 10 retailers say, who the hell is Nelk?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:You know? Yeah. So that that was you know, they were niche. I think my thing is I I I don't ever look at the size of the creator, whether it's someone as small as what you were referring to or Taylor Swift. You know, if the product is great, it'll sell itself.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 5:I I've always said this is a fan of any creator, influencer, celebrity will try anything once. Now, the question is, will they buy it again? They will buy it. They will try it once.
Speaker 11:No matter what it is.
Speaker 5:There's celebrities that have launched ice creams and they've come and gone. The biggest celebrity, I don't wanna say their names, but you know, the biggest celebrities have launched ice creams and, you
Speaker 1:know We had a a recent celebrity brand that didn't work was trav it was Travis Scott's Celtic Yeah. Right? Just launched it
Speaker 5:some time we did.
Speaker 1:And and I think that you would think that Travis is enough of a superstar that anything he did and put his brand behind would would at least get to
Speaker 2:like He'd pull like a million people into Fortnite to watch him play. Yeah.
Speaker 1:He is massive. That might make it hard to sell
Speaker 2:alcohol. Maybe.
Speaker 1:Pulling Yeah. But anyways, being, you know, being a global superstar and launching a product does not guarantee success. And I think what you're saying is, like, the actual quality of the product matters a ton.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I mean, I always look so Travis Scott's seltzer didn't do good, but, like, his collabs with Nike are fire.
Speaker 2:You know mean?
Speaker 5:Yeah. People go crazy Yeah. Like, you know I mean? Like, you know and and that's the thing. Travis Scott's not gonna stop.
Speaker 5:But, yeah. I mean, the Seltzer's a good example. It launched literally the same time. I think it launched a month before us. Really?
Speaker 5:Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So And just wildly different trajectory.
Speaker 5:It just it wasn't it wasn't good. You know? It it wasn't good. He had the right idea of bringing a new demo into the category. Like, he was going like, the branding was cool.
Speaker 5:Like, I remember it was coming out. We were ready to go. We're like, shit. We're okay. Yeah.
Speaker 5:We're toast. You know, like
Speaker 2:Head to head against Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I remember I was like, this that's a wrap on us. But, you know, but the the and then then we then it wasn't it had just come out and we tried one. We're like, never mind. We're going to That's all we had to do, is try
Speaker 2:it. What do you think about taste not just literal taste of the beverage or the product, but just taste broadly? Is that something that a creator can actually bootstrap? Or do they just have it do they have to have it innately? I feel like I've run into creators that have had incredible audiences.
Speaker 2:And they've even kind of picked the right category. But I taste their product, and I'm just like, this doesn't taste good. Like, you just didn't nail it. And maybe it tastes good to you, but it doesn't taste good to enough people that I think people will stick around, and this will actually have exponential takeoff. Is that something creators can just like brute force?
Speaker 2:Or do you think that don't there's they need to partner with somebody?
Speaker 5:Right. Right. They would need to find the right partner that has the expertise that that that's not gonna settle, that's not gonna be excited about the creator. Not gonna say, you know what? You're so and so.
Speaker 5:Like, whatever you throw your name on is gonna work. You know? Like, they're excited. There's there's been people I've seen it in the world of different people I've worked with. They just get excited, and they're so excited.
Speaker 5:And and sometimes they get celebrity excited where, like, they're just, like, you know, like, I'm so excited to be in the room with them. I don't wanna piss them off. I just wanna go and I wanna go tell my friends that I'm partner you know, I'm partners with this person. And, you know, and that's always the the the kiss of death is when you don't have the right partner who doesn't want to be honest with you and is just more excited to have your name and go be able to tell some people that they're in partnership with you.
Speaker 2:Do you think there's any I don't know if it's a risk to your business or just like a potential future where one of the major companies like AB InBev or Unilever just figures out that they could potentially go to the next generation of incredibly high growth creators and say, look, normally, we would just buy ads from you, but that doesn't give you any economic upside. So instead, let's do a joint venture. Let's make it fifty-fifty. We will handle all the logistics, all the capital. So instead of just raising 20% dilution from a VC, you're also getting our supply chain.
Speaker 2:You're also getting our distribution. But you're going to be the face of this brand. And instead of just, oh, you're in a Super Bowl ad. Here's $1,000,000 check. You get real upside in the performance of this.
Speaker 2:And then maybe we spin this out. Maybe we buy the whole thing at some point. But they're just getting in much earlier to a more complete extent. Do you think that that's a model that we could see happen in the future? Or do you think there's something about the big
Speaker 1:companies These that just don't want do big CPG companies have innovation divisions whose job is kind of like
Speaker 2:They certainly spend a lot of money.
Speaker 1:They spend a lot of money, like, kicking these ideas around, and they'll make a bunch of different con Yeah. Like, concepts. And you just don't hear them ever going from zero to one and breaking out. And then I feel like they're also in a position where they can sit back and be like, let's let the market create hits. And we'll
Speaker 2:just We'll just pick cherry pick
Speaker 1:the cherry pick the best
Speaker 5:I don't know why we're still talking about cacti. I even reading comments about cacti. Cacti. But cacti was that. Cacti was a partnership with Anheuser Busch.
Speaker 2:Oh, no way. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 5:That was exactly what you said.
Speaker 2:So maybe that was was
Speaker 5:what the exact split was, but it was owned by co owned by Travis Scott
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 5:Anheuser Busch, distributed by Anheuser
Speaker 2:Busch. Interesting. You would think that that would be I totally understand why you were so worried because that feels like they have all the advantages against you. And yet, maybe they lack the entrepreneurial talent. And, like, they they need to win.
Speaker 2:You needed to win.
Speaker 1:Big problem here is I don't know the the the actual guy who is running Cacti.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:It's like some person in a big organization meanwhile, like, Happy Dad, regardless of how great Nelk is, great the product is, like, I'm sure Happy Dad, like, wouldn't be a hit if you weren't, like, step by step, like, taking place.
Speaker 5:It's just like That
Speaker 1:that's and and betting your personal brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Personal brand and also, like, you probably have taken unlimited phone calls on Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday night. Whereas, like, if you're just some corp dev person at a big company, are you really going to push that extra mile to
Speaker 5:So take rest extra for marketing, too, right? Like having different podcasts and having the placement. You know how many of those podcasts with Melk? Yeah. I've been there, like, while they're interviewing putting the happy
Speaker 2:dad right next to
Speaker 5:everybody, creating towers. Like, when they interviewed Elon, like, we were struggling finding happy dads in Austin. We had to, like, delay him to from coming just to make sure that
Speaker 2:The product.
Speaker 5:That that we had product in there. Was like, he's we're not going live until Yeah. There's Happy Dads in front of him, you know? So, like, you know, those are the things Doing
Speaker 2:things that don't scale.
Speaker 5:Yeah. This is PG Grassroots, you know, type of things as well. So I think that's the other problem. I actually think partnering well, also, like, there's no innovation on their side too on those big brands. I think that's where they need people like us or you guys.
Speaker 5:Yeah. It's like, you know, forward thing is no guy in a boardroom is gonna think of, you know, Unilever or whatever is gonna think like, oh, wow. Like, let's build this with Taylor Swift. Yeah. Now, they'll build they'll
Speaker 1:Or or I think this ingredient that's not popular today is gonna be super popular in five years.
Speaker 5:Yeah? Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the energy drink companies right right now, like, none of them.
Speaker 5:How come none of the big energy drink brands, Red Bull, Monster, Celsius have come out with a stevia or monk fruit Yeah. Sweetener replacement. Replacement. Right? Like, they're just not thinking about it.
Speaker 5:But somebody will and will end up selling their company to one of those three. Yeah. For Or or, you know, Doctor Pepper.
Speaker 1:What give us a lay of the land of, like, the platforms today in your view from TikTok potentially going through some type of acquisition or restructuring to YouTube, to Spotify? How are you advising the creators and talent that you work with on getting the most out of the different platforms?
Speaker 5:Well, this probably give me trouble on this podcast because I know everyone from all these platforms probably watch this, but I'm a YouTube first guy. I I think, you know That's fine. I'm a YouTube first guy for video. When live, I'm a x, you know. I like x for live a lot.
Speaker 5:But, you know, it Which
Speaker 1:is crazy because I think they have, like, one person that works on the live product. I heard. That's my buddy. Absolute legend.
Speaker 2:But it's a special it's a special thing that was, I mean, certainly underutilized. Like, x livestreams were basically, you watch the SpaceX launch there, then you get off. Yeah. And that was it. And now there's a number of shows.
Speaker 2:Ours is one of them that's put x livestreaming front and center and realized that no one was really taking it that seriously. And it's a pretty decent product.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Yeah. No, I love YouTube, I love for the discoverability. Totally.
Speaker 2:You can actually go viral, get millions of views. If you have good content, you show up there, it's going to get shown. It's going get seen. And it has a longer tail, longer half life. Like, you can let a video simmer for a month, it can just grow to a million views.
Speaker 2:On x, it's got to be like that day or nothing. Right? So it's a little bit different.
Speaker 5:Yeah. We talked about that when we first met. It was like the clips, like your clips. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like Yeah.
Speaker 5:Even this interview, someone's probably gonna watch in two years, three years. I get it now from old interviews. People say, hey, I watched your inner I don't I don't do a lot of interviews Yeah. Two or three a year. But like the, you know, say, hey, I watched that interview.
Speaker 5:I'm like, which one? Like, I did that three years ago. You know, where the discoverability is not quite there on anywhere else, Instagram, TikTok, and whatnot. So that's why I really like YouTube.
Speaker 2:Yeah. YouTube is
Speaker 5:the library for sure.
Speaker 1:Spotify feels like they're trying to to solve discoverability, but but it seems like they have very limited inventory in terms of how it shows up. They have that one placement that's like on the home page that I see every now and then. It's not super dialed in yet. Would you see them ever doing live video?
Speaker 5:I think they have to. I don't know if they are. I haven't heard anything, but I think they they kind of have to. I mean, live video. I mean, you you guys actually like, you guys are gonna change the game with live.
Speaker 5:There's gonna be a lot of copycats, like, after what you guys have been doing, especially on x. Like, you guys are gonna change the game. There's gonna be a lot of people now because of you guys, and your guys' growth has been insane. Let me ask you guys something, though.
Speaker 2:Please.
Speaker 5:Just because you guys talk to a lot of, different AI, you know, all these different LLMMs. What do you think they're going to do with social? Like, what's ChatGPT? I mean, Grokka, I guess, has x, but ChatGPT or Perplexity. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do think OpenAI is going to allow you to share there was already a share button in ChatGPT. So if I go I mean, this happened just earlier today. I was pulling up some research, and I shared it with somebody on my team, shared a link. He can see not just the result, but what I prompted, what I followed up, have a whole discussion. And I think that people the most basic form of sharing within an OpenAI social network, if you call it that, would just be I go and explore a topic, and then I can share it out.
Speaker 2:And you can just see what I'm interested in. So I did a whole deep research report I fired off. It took twenty minutes to pull up all this stuff on the new CEOs of Oracle. And if you follow me and you're interested in Oracle, well, I just saved you twenty minutes because I did the deep research report. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now, you don't have to do one. And you could say, oh, well, if John's interested in this, John's acting as a curator on top of the infinite knowledge engine that is ChatGPT. And I think that would be kind of like the the the first like text based nerdy social network that could sort of bootstrap. I can think of a few people where I wanna see what they're searching as they as long as they opt in to share. I don't wanna see everything.
Speaker 1:My my read is that the LLMs are a threat to the social platforms, but not because they're gonna launch like social products Yeah. But because time that you're spending with an LLM or spending with like a voice model if somebody's becoming best friends with some model. We saw this with like chat GPT four o when OpenAI announced g p t five and deprecated the model. The chat g p t Reddit threat forum was just going crazy. People just freaking out being like, I feel like you just killed my best friend.
Speaker 1:They're hanging out with And so it's less that I see the, you know, the open AIs or the anthropics of the world actually competing in social because if you're you even if you're using AI to create media, right, using it to create images, video, etcetera, or like stories, whatever it is, you're still better off going to YouTube, the platform that has Yeah. A massive massive audience and sharing that content there. I backed a I backed a a social platform years ago that that pivoted and is now doing some doing enterprise SaaS. And they had got they were building a let's let's hear it for SaaS. We love SaaS.
Speaker 1:We love SaaS here.
Speaker 5:To SaaS, maybe.
Speaker 1:But but they they built a basically, Twitter but just for just for Anans. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it was cool because people that didn't have an Anan could go on there and just like start like sharing and create this whole kind of new personality. And they got like some traction but then people just realized like, hey, if I'm like if I wanna post under this identity, I'm still better off just going to x
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And sharing theirs. So they never reached Yeah. Critical mass. And so I just think they are already competing with the social platforms but in entirely entirely new ways. You could imagine a world where like somebody's AI friend is like generating them content Mhmm.
Speaker 1:That's that's in in ChatGPT for example or in Gemini or in one of these apps just saying like, hey, I thought you'd like this. And it's like a video that the model generated itself Yep. For the user because it knows the user so well. And so but that's different than like a UGC platform.
Speaker 2:The other place that I think the models will eat off of YouTube's plate a little bit is in knowledge retrieval. So I gave that example of, like, I wanted to learn about the new CEO of Oracle.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And there was a time when I would go to YouTube and pull up I might still pull up an interview with them, but there was also a whole series of channels that were just sort of like the history of Microsoft. And you could go there. I ran one of those channels for a while. I was doing sort of like these video essays. And you can see that you can just hit ChatGPT, get a full script, and just have it read it to you.
Speaker 2:And that will eventually be instantiated with pictures, and you'll be able to watch it. And so a lot of the how to knowledge retrieval tasks that happen on YouTube, how do I fix my washing machine, That people will migrate over okay. And I but I wouldn't necessarily call that like social media, but it was certainly like content creation. Yeah. And so ChatuchPetty is certainly like eating off of that.
Speaker 2:And yeah, and Gemini too, because Gemini can scrape all the YouTube data. And then they can actually point you, hey, watch this. They're already doing this in search years ago where you say, how do I fix this particular washing machine? It says, go to this video and go to minute three. Go to minute three.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because you don't wanna skip the intro, click right here, and this is exactly your problem. Yeah. Because they talk about five different
Speaker 1:Have you gotten a bunch of crazy pitches from, like, AI companies that wanna, like, use use the the the NALK boys for, like
Speaker 5:Every hour. Every hour. Every hour. Yeah. Well, every
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm And not a lot of none of them are that compelling, right?
Speaker 5:No, nothing. Nothing. Yeah. My LinkedIn
Speaker 2:is What do you think about influencer led software companies? There was a story I think Mr. Beast was talking about this a little bit that he was thinking about doing a mobile game studio. And that felt like potentially an extremely valuable thing if he can do it. But making a great mobile game is really, really hard.
Speaker 2:I was on the My First Million podcast pitching
Speaker 5:That's how we started. That was our first business.
Speaker 2:Really, mobile games. No way. I was pitching Beast VPN. Because if you look at who's buying the most ads on YouTube, it's always the VPN providers, right?
Speaker 6:And
Speaker 2:why is that? International audience, you put up video on YouTube. People are watching it all over the world. And so anyone can use a VPN anywhere they are, anywhere they're in the world. It's much harder if you're like, yeah, I'm only available in stores in America.
Speaker 2:Well, you just got 30% of your audience or something if you're just a broad channel. And so I was always sort of bullish on the idea of creators launching software products. But at the same time, software is really, really hard to get right and actually build a great product. And so I
Speaker 1:understand It's not why something that you build like once. Or in CPG, you go through these product development cycles Exactly.
Speaker 2:Create a hit product and you sell that
Speaker 1:a billion times. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Right? I think there's I think there's some place in software. I think about it a lot because we also have so much data on everything. Like, have, you know, from our Shopify stores because of our our our our merch business. This is why, you know, it kills me that we can't sell Happy Dad online because you know how much data I would have.
Speaker 2:Of course.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Mean, we I think we just went through I don't I don't even remember. I should have had some more numbers, but, you know, I think, like, a couple 100,000,000 can sales. Couple 100,000,000.
Speaker 2:Watch out.
Speaker 1:Oh, alright. Watch out.
Speaker 5:We got more stats. I wonder if my brother's in this chat. He can send us some Yeah. My brother was supposed to watch. But
Speaker 2:He's ringing.
Speaker 1:Still ringing.
Speaker 2:It's a good gong.
Speaker 5:This is the best show. You guys are crushing it. I was so excited when you guys hit me up. I was so I don't like interviews.
Speaker 1:You found us early.
Speaker 5:You found did find you early. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then you guys have been blowing up.
Speaker 5:Jordan Gold and I talk about that all the time. Like, we're always sharing clips. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know how many times people have tried to sell me your handles? Mine?
Speaker 4:Oh, John gets hit up. I'm John Cougar.
Speaker 2:You have add John and people always hit me up, oh, I'll get you add John. And I'm like, I know John Jahidi. I know you don't have I
Speaker 5:have I have at John on YouTube.
Speaker 2:That's crazy.
Speaker 5:I've had John on Snapchat.
Speaker 2:I just because you're the first person on these platforms? Or is that or is that you you find him early and you No.
Speaker 1:No. No.
Speaker 2:You get the right handlers?
Speaker 5:I I wasn't the first
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 5:But I was the second. Okay. So, like, you know, these platforms, like, when my Twitter one, like, I think whoever got it and whatever year Twitter went
Speaker 2:2007
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Something? I think, like, someone got the name Yeah. Didn't use it
Speaker 2:And then you
Speaker 5:and like within a year, like, you know, because I think the rule is on some of these platforms using it. No one's used If it's inactive for a hundred and eighty days Yep. That includes no one logging in. So literally someone got the name and said, this ain't for
Speaker 2:me It's Yep.
Speaker 5:And bounced. And then I went and claimed the name right away. So those names I got within like the first year. So I wasn't I was never the first, but I was always the second.
Speaker 2:That's amazing.
Speaker 5:So, yeah, that was like my mission the last like fifteen years.
Speaker 2:You've done fantastic.
Speaker 1:Unite the great house.
Speaker 5:Yeah. TikTok. So good. John, all that.
Speaker 2:You're John on TikTok too?
Speaker 5:Every platform. Every platform. Every platform. At John. Kik.
Speaker 5:Don't I even use Kik, but I just got Hey. Hey.
Speaker 2:You gotta log in every one hundred and seventy nine days.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah. You know what?
Speaker 2:Do not leave that.
Speaker 5:I actually almost lost
Speaker 2:Oh, you
Speaker 5:did? One of them. I forgot which one for that reason. Think my TikTok You're good
Speaker 2:new login.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So Never log off.
Speaker 2:Never touch Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's there's an army of, like, high school kids that are like, no.
Speaker 5:Like, gonna claim this. Black market. Yeah. They always they always try to resell me my names, like Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Or they they get, like, some of our names or, like, they get, like, milk. You know? Because we did. We got at milk on Instagram. Yeah.
Speaker 5:And but they use milk boys, and now they tried it, like and we we never logged into milk, and someone gets it
Speaker 11:and tries
Speaker 5:to, like, extort me. Alright? But listen, if you're watching, you're gonna try to extort me. It'll never Who? Guess,
Speaker 1:never What's what's going on in in music? Because you work with you work with some artists, like, what what is the state of things? How is the industry reacting to I mean, it still feels
Speaker 5:like person I know in music that I care for is Justin Bieber. He's crushing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. New album.
Speaker 1:Has he do you do you feel like and I don't know how much you can speak to this, but it seems like the new way to make a hit song is you think about the hook. Like what hook is going to go viral in a reels TikTok format and then build the song around that? Is Justin a big enough star that he does he can just make his music the old fashioned way or is there still this kind of You do like one for the album. For me.
Speaker 5:Someone said, do you have John at John in the Bible?
Speaker 2:That's funny. That's funny.
Speaker 1:It's from the Bible. Oh. The original.
Speaker 5:So one thing with Bieber is I I have no say or input in the creative. But if I what I could tell you just by knowing him, if that's a trendy thing other people are doing, I could assure you he's probably not.
Speaker 1:Going the other direction.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Like, don't think he needs to or even thinks or he probably even knows that's a thing. Like, I think he's when he's in a creative mode, he's in a different on a different level.
Speaker 2:So Can you take me through some of the other growth hacks that artists and music are doing? I heard about this one where because of the nature of Spotify, the fact that you can fit unlimited songs on an album, for a while, artists were just shipping like 45 songs on an album, just throwing it up, seeing what the algorithm likes. It seems like there's been a whole bunch of different make the songs shorter, make the song longer. You've seen this on YouTube where for a while, the meta was like ten minutes because you get two ad reads. Then it was like twenty minutes, then it was fifty minutes, and it just got longer and longer.
Speaker 2:The algorithm does shape the content a little bit. Is that happening in music?
Speaker 5:I don't know. Because the only person I work
Speaker 1:with only works
Speaker 2:with the customer.
Speaker 5:He doesn't doesn't care. No. He's just like, think about that. It's not even a conversation.
Speaker 1:Well, it's important to admit because some people will work with like a massive creator
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then they'll think that they're God's gift algorithm because they just work for the superstar. But really, that just kind of warps their
Speaker 5:What I what I just advise these artists, you know, what what I tell everybody, quite honestly, whether you're an artist or podcaster or influencers, like, make a product. You know? Like, I think but but don't going back to what we were first talking about, don't make just any product. Like, think of something that could use disruption, find the right people, and make it. Like, I I truly Mr.
Speaker 5:Beeson, I talked about this, he said he didn't agree with me. But I I, you know, I truly believe every creator of any influence should own some sort of product, or be a partner in one. You know, I think, right now, you know, these retail stores, what I from what I've seen, and now with America going healthy, and, you know, people just being more conscious of what they're eating, you know, I think, you know, a lot of these shelf spaces in these retail stores could use something new and different, you know? Like, these guys are doing it.
Speaker 2:Chris Williamson. Yeah. Brutonic.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So, you know, they're doing it. You know, I think and and I don't think just because a big player in the game is owned you you you know what I do know is when nicotine's a good example. Mhmm. What is this?
Speaker 5:Like, 80% of the market share is zen?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Retailers don't like that. Yeah. They don't like when a big company owns the category.
Speaker 1:Get bossed around.
Speaker 5:They get bossed around, you know. They on price, on placement, on everything, like, you know. So it's like, don't be afraid just because ZYN owns 80% or Nestle owns 90% of the frozen foods section. Like, don't be afraid to go against them. The retailers will actually support you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:So if you've got influence, you know, just think of building a product. Find the right people. Don't settle. And go and go give these big guys a run for their money.
Speaker 2:On the influencer side, what do you think the is there an optimal structure? Like, because you could it's the NELC boys, that's plural. There's multiple characters in the world that are promoting the same product. There's also single influencers who, you know, take a, you know, huge slug and it's their brand, the personal person, single singular. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then there's other brands that say, okay, yeah, we're a group of founders. We're building a product. We're gonna go and give significant equity to five influencers, 10 influencers. And then you have big brands that are saying, hey, we're gonna go spend with 500 influencers on day one to try and promote this. Like, is there a natural structure that you think is best?
Speaker 5:Something else I think about a lot, too. Now, so so now, we keep talking about if you're an influencer, go find the right product Yeah. Create it, drop it. Now, it's the marketing of it too. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Right? Like like, Chris does not flex this all the time. Right? Yeah. Like, we know because we're in the business.
Speaker 5:Yeah. This is Chris's business. But there's people in my office that drink this, I'm like, oh, you watch Chris Williamson. They're like, who's that? Yeah.
Speaker 5:Like, they we just like this drink. Oh, yeah. There's there's people in my office.
Speaker 1:You gotta be you gotta be the the cultivating the ability to promote your products aggressively, like, this is why Dylan on our team is is such such a huge addition. We we just hired
Speaker 5:Yeah. I met him.
Speaker 8:I met him. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, that's that's a different we have
Speaker 2:two two Dylan Aberdeen.
Speaker 1:Dylan Dylan Aberdeen is our
Speaker 2:new Okay.
Speaker 1:Our new president. But he is like has this uncanny ability to to like ask, go for these extra asks and you know, get like he got the journal to write about him joining TBPN. Right? A podcast hiring a president after eleven months. It's great.
Speaker 1:It's interesting story but it takes a lot to like go out and make that happen whereas Chris Williamson like is not promoting this at the level that you are. He's not holding up Elon, you know, Musk Yeah. Being like, we're not starting the show until we can get Happy Dad
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:In in on the set, right? And that you you kind of even I think something I've realized throughout my career is like even even products and people that have incredible momentum like still keep that like focus on like, no, we need to keep pushing. We need to keep promoting the thing that we're doing over and over and over and it never stops.
Speaker 5:Well, so let me tell you why Chris is not because I've spoken with him and his team. It's a mistake that we made with Happy Dad. And, you know, I know I shared what I used to do with Happy Dad, but it's actually something that if I had to do it again, I wouldn't have pushed it so hard. Because what's the point of Chris promoting this right now on here and on every podcast he's on, every podcast he does if it's not available everywhere?
Speaker 2:Oh, interesting.
Speaker 5:Right? Like, you know how many people we sent into the category when we launched in 2021? But just two months ago, we just launched our fiftieth state. It took us four years to launch nationwide. We just launched Utah.
Speaker 5:How many people for four years
Speaker 2:I saw how to love do Melk. Melk loves seltzer. I become a White Claw customer. That's a lot. Yep.
Speaker 5:Exactly. How many you know how many people I mean, how many and we I mean, we've made Yeah. Don't wanna take full credit for but we'd helped make the seltzer category cool amongst men, which led to now it's not as shameful to drink a White Claw now as it was four years ago. High Noon, you know, did a deal with Barstool. You know what mean?
Speaker 5:All these things were, you know, so if I were to do it again, I would focus on distribution first and be available everywhere, so people don't run to the store and say, hey, do you have Happy Dad here? No, we don't. But we have this. Yeah. We have that.
Speaker 5:Yep. Well, I'm here.
Speaker 1:I might
Speaker 5:as well just get that. Oh, wow. This is good. I'll just become a customer for this brand.
Speaker 2:You gotta rewind that.
Speaker 5:Happy Dad. Yeah. Which is Awesome. Nearly impossible. So what they're doing is because I met with him and his team a few months Yeah.
Speaker 5:Ago is they're focused on their distribution. They wanna become everywhere. They're available more places now. I don't even
Speaker 1:But it's such a it's such a chicken and egg thing because if you're not promoting aggressively
Speaker 5:or Walmart. Walmart's like, wait, what are you doing? I've never heard of you. Why? Yeah.
Speaker 5:You gotta find that balance. Right? Because Walmart did eventually bring us in because they saw us on all the podcast and all those things. You gotta find that balance. If you could if it could be in sync and you could hurry up and build one team that's just doing marketing and one team that's like hurry up and be available everywhere, whether it's the regular independent liquor store down the street or the thousands of Walmarts.
Speaker 5:So you've got to not get caught up on the marketing so much, but yeah, find that balance of also like get the marketing so you could tell why Walmart or seven eleven or the independent guy. Yeah, know there's 10,000 other brands out there, but put mine up get mine and put mine up front too. It's not even like be available. Don't not in the corner. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Build me a display up front as well.
Speaker 1:How do you how do you advise the talent that you work with around like reinventing themselves over time because I think like NELC boys are a good example, living kind of a party lifestyle, going from a college lifestyle, young adult, etcetera. Eventually, they're gonna get to the point where their own interests are no
Speaker 2:longer I had this question about Mr. Beast. Is he going to become he has a very young audience. Will he become Mr. Rogers?
Speaker 2:And at 80, he will be still talking to children or young adults? Or will he age up and we'll be seeing him make content about being a dad? You know. It's it's such a fork in the road for creators
Speaker 1:And I feel like like like Bieber is a good example
Speaker 3:He's best example. Who is
Speaker 1:just like constantly reinventing himself so the people that listen to him 15. It's not like I'm sure I'm sure teenagers listen to Justin Bieber now but it's the people that when I would you know, when I was a teenager, like, people listen to Justin Bieber and those same people now are, like, consuming the music in the like, just as much.
Speaker 5:Yeah. He's a he's a best example of aging up, right? Because, you know, when, yeah, the person that 13 year old girl that loved Justin Bieber thirteen years ago is now 26 years old, you know?
Speaker 1:So Still probably wants to go to the concert.
Speaker 5:Still wants to go. Because his music now have
Speaker 1:the ability to, like, make the personal decision, like, can just buy
Speaker 5:listen to his music now. Right? Like, his music is like stuff that like adults listen to. He's not making, you know, like, know, some of these other pop stars that, you know, let's just say these, you know, pop stars in the past that never really made it because they just stuck to that, you know, making that same song for that 13 year old over and over and over again, where, like, he's making songs for people in their thirties and forties. And, you know, the way he looks and the way he dresses, his clothing brand now is, like, you know, it's not merged.
Speaker 5:It's actually a fashion brand, like, you know, Skylark. So I think that's the thing. So going back with Nelk, it's the same thing. Right? Like, the podcast was a big step towards that.
Speaker 5:You know, like, they they do the occasional pranks here and there to, you know, stay true to the audience, but most of their stuff is podcasting, serious stuff, you know you know, interviewing CEOs, you know, of World leaders. World leaders. The presidents. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 5:So, you know, so those, know, all all that, all those things. So that, you know, why? Because that Milk fan who loved the pranks ten years ago
Speaker 1:Stay with them.
Speaker 5:Is now in their late twenties, early thirties. Yeah. So so I think that's what you've just gotta age up. But it's not easy to age up too. Right?
Speaker 5:Because, like, you know, you're gonna have to take the risk of, like, is this gonna perform as well? It might not. The podcast was not doing that good at first. Right? It just took a while for people to understand, wait, how'd you go from prank videos to podcasting?
Speaker 5:So, you know, you know, you gotta understand, like, know, you gotta take that hit, you know, maybe if you were getting 5,000,000 views of milk video, your podcast might get 1,000,000 at first, you know, it might get 20 of the views that it had before, but, you know, eventually it'll pick back up, so don't, you know, don't don't panic if you're not getting the views that you used to. Yeah. So so that's the same thing with mister beast is like, you know, maybe, you know, I don't I don't yeah. I don't know if I would what I would do if I were Mr. Beast because I think what's what he's doing right now is working, but for the long term, yeah, he's gotta think.
Speaker 5:And I I know he does it. He's thinking about it because you guys watch him on other podcasts, like, he drops f bombs and stuff like that. Like, he's trying to, like, figure out how to, like, cater towards older people.
Speaker 2:Totally. And if you zoom out and you just think about him as, like, this generation's game show host Mhmm. You can see what he's doing with Beast Games on Amazon. And clearly, game shows as a category, what he does really well is not uniquely young. You can do an American Ninja Warrior.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You can do Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. He'll put his own twist on it, of course. But you can you can make a game show that has the MrBeast touch and production value and pacing and editing and all the things that he does really well for a much older audience.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he could be Seacrest, way bigger about Brian Seacrest.
Speaker 2:Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He could definitely
Speaker 5:Yeah, get yeah.
Speaker 2:What do you think of these IRL activations? It feels like Pat McAfee's done WWE. Logan Paul's done WWE. There's something interesting about when these online online influencers, the people that you only see between the screen, like wind up going and doing something live, podcasts often go on the road. Like, how how thoughtful are you about that these days?
Speaker 5:I think wait. You're talking about Logan Paul being in the WWE or
Speaker 2:No. And Paul
Speaker 5:said being on the w
Speaker 2:Just Logan Paul, like, fought in WWE and he does boxing. Right? So and so there's this something interesting about, like like, he can be so big online, but there's something that makes you even bigger when you go into something that's legacy or something that's there's something that makes it more real. I mean, Jordi gave the example of us going to The Wall Street Journal and and and like, that's very much like us crossing crossing over into a different world almost. And it feels like that's something that creators need to be thoughtful about.
Speaker 2:But there's maybe something still underrated there if you can get it right. Similar to launching a great brand, if you can have like, what is the interaction with the fans or the people who are just meeting you for the first time in the real world that then can become something that makes you more of an institution than just something that they see on their screen.
Speaker 5:Well, I think with Logan and WWE, I think that's a really good example of like he entered this platform. Well, one, you've gotta be good
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:At it. Like, it has to make sense, which in my opinion, I it makes sense for Logan. Like, I think it's hilarious. You know? I think it's so funny.
Speaker 5:I think got enough of him and his WWE content. Yeah. And then you gotta think, like, what is my core thing and is it gonna help that? Like, in his thing, you know, if you were to ask Logan Paul, I have never asked him this, but I'm sure if if we did, you know, what what matters to you most is his online presence. Right?
Speaker 5:Like his YouTube, his podcast, and and Prime. Yeah. So like, does going into the WWE help the core businesses? And I think it does. I think it's kept them relevant on YouTube.
Speaker 5:I think it's definitely helped Prime. So if it if it if it's helping the core thing, and I think the same thing with you guys and Wall Street Journal, does Wall Street Journal help this versus, like, leaving this to do Wall Street Journal? Yeah. Know, like, it if it helps this platform and brings more validation to this show and more eyeballs and awareness to this show. All the things you guys have done with this show.
Speaker 5:So you guys had Zuckerberg last week?
Speaker 1:I haven't
Speaker 5:watched it yet, but like I it was a joke. I was like, wait, did they use them for
Speaker 2:We haven't signed a Gone.
Speaker 5:Thumbnail. Was like, woah. And I watched like ten seconds. Didn't have time to watch all the thing, but I wanna watch. Like, woah.
Speaker 5:They had sucked them. Like, that's crazy.
Speaker 1:How do you advise your talent on start up investing, private markets investing? Because I feel like this can be a good way for talent to just like light millions of dollars on fire if they're not careful, but at the same time, if they're really strategic about it, they can end up, you know, getting access to the best investment opportunities in the world.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I think they need to be surrounded by the right people. Right? Like, you gotta be surrounded by a like, someone at Andreessen, or I think you guys have Sherwin on here later.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Do. Like be surrounded by Sherwin Peshavar. Know what mean?
Speaker 1:Be surrounded. Somebody that can identify
Speaker 5:Not some guy you met at Tao in, you know, in New York. You know what mean? Like, you know Yeah.
Speaker 2:We had Saquon Barkley on the show and he
Speaker 5:He's around smart people.
Speaker 2:He's around very people and he's been investing in companies that have been backed by tier ones. It's not just taking a flyer in a friend's business. Oh, you're gonna start a restaurant.
Speaker 5:It's Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's okay. Everyone in Silicon Valley is piling into this company. I should get in this.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. I mean I mean, yeah, Ashton Kutcher is a good example of that in the past. Now, Saquon's doing that.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think MC Hammer who, like, got into Twitter earlier or something like that. Right? That's right.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I think Nawaz
Speaker 4:a fantastic Nawaz
Speaker 5:has a the Coinbase. He was a like Yeah. Like, ground or, like, series a or something Coinbase. That's such a that's hammer got I think through what was that guy's name? Was a legend back in the day.
Speaker 5:Ron Conway?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Conway.
Speaker 5:A grade? Yeah. That guy was like a but but through him, I think he got into like Twitter early.
Speaker 2:You know? SV Angel was SV Angel. Ron Conway's What did I say? You said a grade
Speaker 5:No. A grade was a Ashtors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5:SV Angel. But but, yeah, I think you just got to be surrounded by the right people. There are good people out there. There's good people out here. Speaking of a great guy O'Seary, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5:Like, if you're around right people but I've seen it so many times where guys will be like, yeah, met this guy at the, you know, at a restaurant in New York, and, like, you not to bash New York and random person, but it's like, what's he done? He's like, well, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He's promising a 20% return.
Speaker 5:No. You have to get, like, I think that that's the thing I when I lived in San Francisco, I always felt that that was something a problem that needed to be solved. There are guys like, Sherwin, like, brought in, like, the Rock Nation people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:A lot of other people into deals. I think he brought in, like, a gang of people into Uber early.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 5:So, you know what I mean? Like, there are people out there. You just have to have the right person. I don't know if you guys know Chris Lyons from Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5:He's always been doing stuff like that, like, you know, like, you know. So, you know, I think you just need to find a Chris Lyons or a Sherwin or a guy of Siri or someone like that.
Speaker 2:Someone who can pipeline for you.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Which I think with the Ashton, I think Ashton had Ron Conway was his was his guy. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So Yeah.
Speaker 5:So, yeah. I think that's a big opportunity that I think they should be doing. But I don't think they should go and invest in something like real estate development and, you know, because their cousin is doing it in Alabama. I've I've heard that's it's a true story.
Speaker 2:Who knows? Elon's building the whole Colossus 2 data center over there. So, you
Speaker 5:know, on that maybe. I'm talking about someone that invested like 25,000,000 into scam in Alabama and lost that
Speaker 2:25,000,000. It's it's dangerous territory.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Crazy. But
Speaker 2:yeah. Yeah. Lots of risk out there. Well, thank you so much for taking the course.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Great to finally have.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Of course.
Speaker 5:Course.
Speaker 1:We come come by anytime. You know we're here every day. And we'll
Speaker 2:Chat's a distraction. I know. I'm sorry. We're we're gonna pull that. You're you're one of the first interviewers who's who's been able to see the chat.
Speaker 2:We're not sure if that's distracting. We manage a lot of these things. Social media and me. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You're you're locked in
Speaker 1:on that. Well
Speaker 2:I agree to see
Speaker 5:you. Yeah. See you.
Speaker 2:Talk soon. So much for hopping on. Will go Absolutely. Back to
Speaker 1:Legend.
Speaker 2:We have our next guest in about fifteen minutes. But first, let me tell you about Profound. Get your brand mentioned in ChatGPT. Reach millions of consumers who are using AI to discover new products and brands at Profound.
Speaker 1:We people should no longer be able to name their their children John. Yeah. Final John. He's got all the usernames.
Speaker 2:Well, over the weekend, there was a beautiful memorial for Charlie Kirk, and Autism Capital has some interesting lore. Charlie Kirk was a hell of an operator. What an entrepreneur. Even if you don't like him, just look at the organization he built. Look at the way he brought high performance out of people so young.
Speaker 2:He represented a standard of excellence and discipline you don't often see anymore. And Michael Gibson, who is running the Thiel Fellowship, says, Not many know, but he was an application to the Thiel Fellowship way back in 2013 or 2014. We passed on him because we didn't think a media company had the scalability of a tech start up, our mistake, but Charlie kept coming to our events for a long time. So what an interesting piece of tech lore there. And so very, very interesting.
Speaker 2:Very This
Speaker 1:This tree robot. Can record
Speaker 2:the video of the unitary g Watching.
Speaker 1:Watch these guys. Is from the dot
Speaker 2:tree account.
Speaker 1:Robot is
Speaker 2:is Unitree g one has mastered more quirky skills. Unitary g one has learned the anti gravity mode. Stability is greatly improved under any action sequence. And even if it falls, it can quickly get back up. Let's watch this horrifying video.
Speaker 2:Wow. Someone didn't read the parable of Rocco's Basilisk.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:This is not what you should be doing to a robot. You should be nice. You should be encouraging the robot.
Speaker 5:This is
Speaker 1:so this is gonna lead to grave consequences.
Speaker 2:Does it respond to a bear hug? How does
Speaker 1:it respond to some You realize every robot is gonna be trained on this video?
Speaker 2:Both the video and the actual training data from this robot. It is fighting for its life here. It's really good at getting up though. This is remarkable. And of course, wow.
Speaker 2:Really feels Woah. Like it hates Okay. It can do a barrel roll. That's remarkable. Wow.
Speaker 1:I do not wanna see that thing with two guns in it.
Speaker 2:What is UniTree's valuation again? This feels deeply valued at 7,000,000,000. If this were in America, this would be trading at a 150,000,000,000. This is
Speaker 1:incredible technology. What is what is the premium that Tesla gets based on the humanoid?
Speaker 2:This is yeah. This is this is top tier operations out of out of China. Flips. We've seen flips before. This one looks less scripted than what Boston Dynamics does.
Speaker 2:Boston Dynamics must respond to this, by the way. I I need a new Boston Dynamics video on the timeline ASAP. I need a new Figure Robotics video. I need a new Tesla Optus video. I need a response from America.
Speaker 2:We will not we will not go quietly into that good night. Fin dot ai, the number one AI agent for customer service, number one in performance benchmarks, number one in competitive bake offs, number one ranking on cheap too. Christian Horner, you wanna talk about Red Bull?
Speaker 1:I wanna talk about Jimmy Kimmel is apparently coming back on the air Tuesday.
Speaker 2:Okay. Yes. It was an indefinite suspension. It was not a full cancellation. There was a debate over what indefinite means.
Speaker 2:It can mean two minutes. It can mean two years. It can mean twenty years. It can mean forever. What do you think, Tyler?
Speaker 4:Do you guys think this was planned all along?
Speaker 2:Yes. It was Conspiracy. Put on the Yeah. The conspiracy is that this was all planned to drum up ratings for
Speaker 1:This was Nathan Fielder.
Speaker 2:Nathan Fielder.
Speaker 1:Came up with an idea. He said
Speaker 2:Get kids.
Speaker 1:We're gonna make a a we're gonna make an indefinite suspension look like a targeted political move
Speaker 2:in order
Speaker 1:to increase the overall attention that late night television is going get.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I had sort of a hot take mean, Everyone's dunking on Kimmel for only getting 160,000 viewers in that eighteen to forty five demographic every night, which is low. And Shammoth said, like, more people hate watch All In in that demo every day that they go live. But but I was looking at the actual numbers, and yes, the Jimmy Kimmel audience is very old. But Jimmy Kimmel's still pulling, I think, a million views a night, which is a lot.
Speaker 2:Like, I feel like that's a lot. Like, that's what? Point 3% of The US population, if you assume it's mostly Americans that are watching, like pretty significant numbers. I'm also interested to know what happens to late night as shows get taken off the air. Colbert was canceled, but she but is still on the air.
Speaker 2:Kimmel's coming back. What happens? Like, there's been a there's been a like, the v two of the late night programming schedule feels like it's gonna be a lot more reality TV. Will Fallon pick up crazy? And will Fallon just have all that attention?
Speaker 2:Or is the late night viewer more, only like I only like Colbert. And if Colbert's not on, I'm not turning on the TV, and I'm gonna go be I'm gonna go listen to Jon Stewart's podcast or Colbert's new podcast, which I assume Kimmel and Colbert will both launch podcasts or live shows or something in the lower production value that still allows them to have a voice and obviously continue to communicate with their audience that they built up over decades. But it will be interesting regardless. Both Kimmel, if he's off the air permanently, if Colbert's off the air permanently, he's gonna need to sell some ads on his new podcast. He's gonna need a CRM.
Speaker 2:He's gonna need Adio. He's gonna need customer relationship magic. Adio is the AI native CRM that builds, scales, and grows your company to the next level. Auraring, raising nearly $900,000,000. Jordy, can you read this post for Mark Thurman while I ring the
Speaker 1:I will. Auraring is raising nearly $900,000,000 making it an over $10,000,000,000 company. It sold 3,000,000 rings in the last year or so and is on track for over 1 and a half billion in revenue next year.
Speaker 2:And you didn't miss this, right? You you you got in early?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I I did not. So I knew Oura Ring when they were when the founder was just bouncing around pod like niche health podcast. It wasn't a thing. You would never see it out in the world.
Speaker 1:No. There you know, I I you know, the founder was very active, like I said, on on the podcast. Yeah. It felt like a weird I wasn't even aware that it had. I'm actually gonna look up
Speaker 2:3,000,000 rings last year. So it was on track for over $1,500,000,000 in revenue. I mean, they've wearables like, we're finally it's it's weird to say it, but it feels like we're finally in the era of, like, wearables actually getting traction. And Absolutely. Oddly they're all they're all classic form factors.
Speaker 2:Everyone people people have been wearing rings for
Speaker 1:It started as a Kickstarter campaign.
Speaker 2:That's crazy. This has to be the most successful Kickstarter of all time. 10,000,000,000? That's more than Oculus, which
Speaker 1:was a Kickstarter. So remarkable.
Speaker 2:Let's check-in with Tyler and his fashionable wearables. How are doing over there? Give us the give us the two week review. How much have you used those? Those are the X Real One Pro, Technically, AR glasses, although I don't believe that you can see me through those.
Speaker 2:You look blind.
Speaker 4:I I can I can barely see you? So I haven't really used them at all except on the plane. True. And they were actually like no. These are like these are actually really cool on the plane.
Speaker 4:I'm getting them to I was just playing a game on my phone, but then I would just have it like be really big in front of me. And it was like a very good experience. So I'm like I would not buy these for $700. I would buy them for like maybe, like, $50.
Speaker 2:$50. Okay. But
Speaker 4:they are, like, really cool.
Speaker 2:We we gotta wait
Speaker 4:for And I I think if they were more see through, the Yeah. New, like, Meta glasses
Speaker 2:Do you think you'll do you think you'll actually use them any time other than on a plane?
Speaker 4:Probably not. Because most of the time, I can just use my laptop instead if I need, like, a bigger screen to do stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So is there any scenario where you would use this, like, a secondary screen on a laptop or anything like that?
Speaker 4:Not really because
Speaker 2:Do you have a TV in your in your luxurious apartment at UCLA that you are so proud of?
Speaker 4:I I do have a TV. I it it it's it's hard to see the the screen. Like, you can't really use this as a second screen. It can only be the kind of main one. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because you can't it's like a little too dark to be like comfortably viewing your laptop.
Speaker 2:So you can't use both at the same time. So it's not really like an extended monitor solution.
Speaker 4:Yeah. But I think the future generations, I I I say I'm likely to become like a a DAU.
Speaker 2:DAU. But when would you use it? Daily. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 4:I I would use it as another monitor if these were more see through.
Speaker 2:Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that could make sense.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, the the the resolution is pretty good. Right? Like, it it it looks good.
Speaker 4:You can very like, you can read very easily. Yeah. It's like usually I sometimes I have a hard time. It, like, makes me sick.
Speaker 2:Jordy, how do you sleep last night? Speaking of of health tracking, monitoring connected devices, the the connected bed from Eight Sleep, of course, is our partner. Go to eightsleep.com. Get a pod five.
Speaker 1:Code TPPN. I got an 88.
Speaker 2:I got a 90. Let's go.
Speaker 1:How many hours did you sleep?
Speaker 2:Seven hours and fifty six minutes. Pretty good.
Speaker 1:Solid. I got seven hours and twenty eight. Not my best. Not my worst.
Speaker 2:In other news
Speaker 1:I'm back tonight.
Speaker 2:There was a reuniting of Elon Musk and Donald Trump at the Charlie Kirk Memorial. There were a couple posts that went out about this. They shook hands. They sat next to each other. It seems
Speaker 1:like Incredibly back.
Speaker 2:They have this has been the unifying event for them. So it'll be interesting to see where this goes in terms of actual movement on, you know, partnerships and subsidies and investments and who does what. There was the there was the movement over Tesla electric car subsidies that, of course, was a staple of the Trump admins, you know, push away from electric cars generally, and that potentially hurt Tesla. Maybe that comes back. We will have to
Speaker 1:continue Let's pull up this chart of the green green line test.
Speaker 2:Yes. The green line test. Trump did lean in, it appears, although just barely. But Danish says BRB going all in on Tesla stock because Elon had the straight green line.
Speaker 1:Tesla is up 2% today.
Speaker 2:Oh, well. Maybe there's something to the green line test. We'll see. You want to get in on Tesla, maybe you think it's overvalued. Maybe you think it's undervalued, head over to public.com.
Speaker 2:Investing for those that take it seriously. Big on multi asset investing. Industry leading years. They're trusted by millions, folks. Speaking of investing, River Road Partners shares, you're not gonna be Ken Griffin.
Speaker 2:Citadel Securities uses a physical goal book that includes more than 5,000 discrete goals contributed by nearly 1,800 employees to guide planning and ops. The goal book is part of a meticulous month months long planning ritual.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Was an entire article, I think, Bloomberg about this printed book
Speaker 2:Yes. Might be worth going through. Matthew is putting in the truth and says, sounds like some PRBS you tell to the Wall Street Journal. And RedPartners
Speaker 1:says it's okay they didn't call you back.
Speaker 2:In other news, Radia is I've never heard of this company before, but Radia is going to build the Windrunner for defense, billed as the world's largest military cargo aircraft and announced at the Air, Space, and Cyber Conference in 2025. The ultra large transport is aimed at closing the airlift gap for US and NATO forces. And if you look at the the scale of these planes, I think that's a seven forty seven there or something like it, and this plane is much, much bigger. I'm excited for the big planes. I want I want bigger and bigger planes.
Speaker 2:I've always wanted something, you know, just as big as a cruise ship in the sky and hopefully we'll get it.
Speaker 1:Kalamaz says something about Valve is very forever two thousands coded, a masterclass in business. It's a type of company that doesn't really exist anymore, that does whatever it wants, whenever it wants because Steam prints so much money and they continue to do exactly that. Do you buy games on Steam anymore? You used to?
Speaker 2:I don't buy any games really because I don't have time to play games. I You're recovery. Yes. I'm in recovery. I I had a Steam Deck.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed it a lot and I bought a lot of games on Steam. And I also bought one Counter Strike skin on Steam on Steam. That was probably $50.
Speaker 4:But
Speaker 1:I love Steve that I love the account Zoomer is discovering
Speaker 2:Yes. Josh Wait. Wait. Can you guess what this is?
Speaker 1:I knew right away.
Speaker 2:Microsoft. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Discovering Josh Kushner.
Speaker 2:Yes. Holy bullish. He says
Speaker 1:He says a 24, Affirm, Andriel, Airtable, Cursor, Databricks, GitHub, HIMs, Instagram, Kickstarter, Lemonade.
Speaker 2:Kickstarter is a throwback.
Speaker 1:New bank. That's an older deal. Opendoor, Oscar.
Speaker 2:Stripe, Rame Patreon. Twitch, Unity Ram. Warby Parker.
Speaker 1:Robin Hood, Scale, Skim, Slack, Spotify, Stripe, Twitch.
Speaker 2:Josh Kushner has gotten in a lot of great deals.
Speaker 1:Fifth Avenue.
Speaker 2:He's buying fifth Avenue. He gets into every good
Speaker 1:It's interesting. Do you think he'll generate more more more of total dollars from OpenAI than the rest of these deals combined?
Speaker 2:I mean, that's the goal of venture. I don't know the actual ownership percentages, but that's certainly the way venture works. Always. Yeah. It's like there's one that makes more than the rest combined.
Speaker 2:And and it makes the rest look really, really silly because you can be in some great, great companies, but that one hyperscaler that you got drives everything. You look at Excel with Facebook. I mean, they had a bunch of other great companies in that portfolio, but they owned, what, 20% of Facebook at IPO or something like that. It was like worth $10,000,000,000 off of like a 100,000,000 something dollar fund. Fantastic performance.
Speaker 2:The other news, oh, there's a question in the chat about the H-1Bs. We'll cover it more later. People are still debating it back and forth. The Silicon Valley was very up in arms over the h one b things. Reece Hastings actually chimed in in favor of the decision to raise the the tax on h one b's.
Speaker 2:He says, I've worked on h one b politics for thirty years. Trump's 100 k per year tax is a great solution, which is I think not what it wound up being. It wound up being 100 k one
Speaker 1:One time.
Speaker 2:But but Reid says it will mean h one b is used for just very high value jobs, which will mean no lottery is needed and more certainty for those jobs. So little bit of a debate. I'm sure there's a bunch of people covering it very well.
Speaker 1:But Well, we have next in guest. Our second in person guest to the show, Laura. And we're breaking some news today.
Speaker 2:Yes. Breaking some news. I'm very excited.
Speaker 1:Get that get that Get call
Speaker 2:the microphone as close as you can. And introduce yourself for those who might not know.
Speaker 8:Hi. I'm Laura. I run Intel Labs. So we are trying to make the hibernation pods that you see in intercellular a reality. But to get there, we want to help transplant patients get the organs that they need by virtually cryopreserving organs.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Start with something easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Give us a little backstory. Like, what actually set you up to be in a position to start this type of company? It seems incredibly difficult from a scientific perspective.
Speaker 8:Yeah. So my backstory is, like, I spent a decade working in longevity. It's long a time adventure. And I think it's just really frustrating to spend that much time trying to solve a problem. And you really want to find one critical lynch point, like one thing where you can solve it and then it helps everything else.
Speaker 8:And so to me, it's like, wow, it would be so cool to make a hibernation plot where if you had a terminal illness and you needed a critical cure, you could wait, let's say, one to two years to make it to the point where a therapy free disease comes out. And of course, the key step to get there is showing that this sci fi technology, which works for millions of IVF embryos Sure. There's people walking out today who are cryopreserved for three plus years
Speaker 2:Woah. As That's crazy.
Speaker 8:Really crazy. Thirty plus years.
Speaker 1:Thirty plus Yes.
Speaker 2:Three. Three. Wait. Thirty. Thirty?
Speaker 2:Thirty.
Speaker 8:Yes. Thirty. Yeah. Actually, the record for the longest cryopreserved human embryo just came out.
Speaker 2:No way. And it was 30 plus So this person's born, and they're kind of 30 on day one. Some ways.
Speaker 8:They're twins that were preserved at the same time, and then they're rewarmed at different times. Woah. It's Very really sci fi.
Speaker 1:We have the tech. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's
Speaker 8:crazy. But just scaling it up to human organs and showing, like, in the clinic for transplant patients that we can actually help.
Speaker 2:So imagine you don't go straight from embryo to human. Is there an animal step in the mid
Speaker 1:Laura is saying the mid step is you take, I don't know, a lung or a kidney or something like that that is
Speaker 2:But why not mouse?
Speaker 8:So actually, really cool thing is the field of cryobiology has been around for decades. And there's been incredible scientists shout out to University of Minnesota who already published showing that for something that can reversely cryopreserve mouse kidneys. So the field of cryobiology has already done incredible work. And we're just working to scale that up to a human organ scale. But the mouse POC is done.
Speaker 8:You can take a mouse kidney, totally cryopreserve it, rewarm it, put it back
Speaker 2:in a
Speaker 8:mouse that does not have another kidney, and that mouse will be good to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What's the state of the art in just freeze the full mouth? Are we making any Somebody progress
Speaker 1:must have tried it by now.
Speaker 2:We have this funny interaction with Zach Weinberg. He came on the show. Was like, whenever you're testing a drug, you do all this research in the lab. But then it's time to make a decision. What was it?
Speaker 2:Rat or monkey? You're going to do a test in one of them, and then you'll get to human trials. And it feels like that's a natural progression. Is that not the natural progression here?
Speaker 8:So people have been trying to cryopreserve whole organisms for
Speaker 2:a long time. Yeah, I imagine.
Speaker 8:There's some pretty crazy studies that came out in the '50s that worked on this.
Speaker 4:But
Speaker 8:I think, basically, it's just it's like, if we can't reversibly cryopreserve we just got the kind of studies that did the risk of organ really well, where you could bring them back and show that they were fully functioning in the past couple of years. There have been some published in past decade, I think really kind of nailing the protocols is pretty recent. And I think you want to get that right before you try going after a whole organism.
Speaker 2:Sure. What are the levers that you pull in cryopreservation that aren't just temperature? I imagine we've tried just make it really, really cold.
Speaker 8:Yeah. So actually, also one cool fact. Don't if you know. Once you get down below minus one thirty degrees Celsius, you can keep an animal there indefinitely, basically. Time basically stops in Woah.
Speaker 8:That temperature How cold again? Below minus 130 degrees Celsius.
Speaker 2:130 Celsius. Okay. That's pretty cold.
Speaker 8:But yeah, the molecules basically aren't moving. So like I mentioned, like thirty plus years for human embryos. Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But are there decisions and trade offs to make besides temperature?
Speaker 8:Yeah. So one of the things I love the most about this and I worked in deep tech for a long time. One of the cool things about this problem is the trade off between biology and engineering. So you have this danger zone. Basically, thing you want basically, the thing like, enemy in carbon preservation is ice.
Speaker 8:You think that we love ice, but we actually hate ice.
Speaker 1:Okay. Like cold, but you don't like ice.
Speaker 8:We love cold, but we don't like ice. Because when ice forms, it expands and it breaks the tissue around it.
Speaker 2:Sure. Yeah. That makes sense.
Speaker 8:Yeah. So what we want to do is we want to
Speaker 2:make glass. Glass, we so, yeah. Mean Yeah. If I have blood in my organ and that expands, that's bad, it's breaking the tissue, how do you freeze something without creating ice out of the blood?
Speaker 1:Well, if you're doing an individual organ Yeah. I'm assuming you take Drain everything
Speaker 2:drain out. Is that right?
Speaker 8:No, there's two different things you can do. It's very close. So one is you can replace the chemicals in the organs. You can replace a of the blood with a chemical that prevents ice formation.
Speaker 2:Okay. Is that just something that freezes below 130, so it's not freezing and it stays a liquid? Or is that just
Speaker 8:It's a couple of things. So it'll turn to a basically, if cool fast enough, it'll turn into a glass. And it does this through decreasing the number of water molecules and also kind of like there are a couple other mechanisms that might be involved.
Speaker 2:Okay. So you don't just have to get cold. You have to get cold fast. That's part of the goal.
Speaker 8:Yeah. So it's like, can you make good chemicals that do that? Can you get cold fast? Basically, can you traverse this danger zone of ice formation down to because once you get to one to one thirty, you're good. Below that, you're totally fine.
Speaker 8:But going through there as fast as possible.
Speaker 2:How fast is fast? Are we talking like minutes, seconds, picoseconds, hours?
Speaker 8:Current protocols work on the order of maybe hours. Ideally, want less than that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I imagine if I put water in the fridge or in the freezer, it's pretty cold. Like, it still takes a couple hours. But I imagine if it's negative 130, it probably turns into ice a little bit faster. Obviously, if it's a smaller amount of liquid, it's gonna freeze faster.
Speaker 2:There's a whole bunch of different trade offs there.
Speaker 1:What's it like fundraising for a business like this? Because I imagine some of the backers are kind of thinking like, I want this for myself. I've always wanted to go in the cryogenic chamber and be able to tell Well,
Speaker 2:more you remember that famous Sam Altman interview where there was a YC company that was doing something along cryopreservation. And as part of his he was running YC at the time. And he said, like, I'm on board. I will sign that you can freeze me after I die. But part of theirs was that they I think they technically had to kill you.
Speaker 2:And so the headline that was like the twisted version of what he said was like
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Sam Altman to be killed by this portfolio company.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Mean, that's value add.
Speaker 2:It's value add. What other VC is willing to die for your company? But yeah, what's it been like fundraising?
Speaker 8:Yes, it's an interesting difference between there's companies where they're kind of like, we'll carpenter you, and we're not sure whether we can bring you back. And I think what was really implying to us is like, let's make this like a real deep tech company. Let's go. And our bar is reversible cryopreservation. When we take an organ, we have to show that the whole it's like, you wouldn't buy an IVF product where it's like, oh, we'll cryopreserve it, we're not sure you can bring your embryo We want to show the whole thing works.
Speaker 8:And that's at a bar where it's like, Okay, if we're using from deep tech firms, they're going talk about what's the business that gets you there. If you can cryopreserve an organ reversibly and help thousands of transplant patients who are otherwise losing organs, 100,000 who are on the waiting list, millions who might use an organ but just don't have access to them, that kind of forces you, I think, to hit this bar of showing you can rewarm with function.
Speaker 2:Walk me through the current state of organ transplantation. I I feel like most people probably know that they have a little thing that they can check on their ID. If they're unfortunately, you know, killed, they they their their organ might be transplanted. It might be frozen for a little bit. But we
Speaker 1:They can pass away too, John. They don't have to be killed. Murderous But
Speaker 2:but but but I I I feel like we've heard this story of, like, the organ was put in a helicopter and traveled. Was moved from one body to another very, very quickly. Yeah. What's the current shelf life of organs? It sounds like that's the most low hanging fruit.
Speaker 2:Just extend that. Even if you just double it, that's going to be really, really positive for the organ transplant market.
Speaker 8:It's the craziest logistical process I've ever heard of.
Speaker 2:Explain it
Speaker 8:to me. So some organs have a four to twelve hour shelf life. Others might have a twenty four to thirty six. But it's a very short time period. And you have no idea when the donor's going pass.
Speaker 8:And so basically, a medical surgeon gets a call, maybe in the middle
Speaker 11:of the night,
Speaker 8:go charter at the last minute, a private plane to fly to the place where the person has just donated the organ, pick it up, bring it back. Transplant patients wait within a two hour Then
Speaker 1:go back to the patient that's getting the transplant.
Speaker 8:If you're a transplant patient, you have to wait right next to the hospital where you might get the surgery for months. In some cases, lot longer than that. Just waiting to get the call in the middle of the night. Have to have a patron on you at all times. It's just like this crazy little school process.
Speaker 2:Because your organ, if you need this particular organ, you're going get a call and you need to go to the hospital because it's coming on a private jet that day.
Speaker 8:Exactly. Yeah. And I don't if you know the company Blade. It's like, I think they did
Speaker 5:like a
Speaker 8:couple 100,000,000.
Speaker 1:It's like medical transport. Did they They split the business in some way.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Actually developed a business.
Speaker 1:And so your initial product is focused on solving that like You don't even need to be able to freeze an organ and bring it back over a decade. It's more like just solving this logistical nightmare. Is that kind of the idea?
Speaker 8:Well, cool thing is once you're the temperature range, you could preserve the organ for as long as possible. But yeah, in the near term, it's like, let's get that organ to the patient as soon as possible. But let's not have to have a surgeon get on a private plane. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so do you I mean, we track artificial intelligence progress a lot on this show. All the AI labs are trying to just see exponential growth in the amount of time that AI can think. We went from one minute to Deep Research can do twenty minutes. GPT-five is doing more.
Speaker 2:Do you think that the progress of your business will track sort of a smooth exponential, where we'll go from four to twelve hours to one day to two days to four days to eight days, sixteen, and just kind of expand from there? Or do you think there'll be some sort of like binary unlock? There's a new technology, and now it's five years.
Speaker 1:Well, to me to me, it sounds like the bigger jump is like, like you said, once you get the temperature down, you can go basically forever. The bigger jump is like how do you go from a single organ that you can you can swap. Mhmm. It sounds like swap out the blood for Yeah. Another chemical that allows it to to stay really cold without having the ice expansion.
Speaker 1:But it's like how do you go from an organ to a system. Right? Yeah. And how do you go from a system to a bot a whole body. Right?
Speaker 1:Because if you replaced all the blood in yourself with some chemical, is your brain going to function the same way when you take there's a lot of unknowns, right?
Speaker 8:Yeah. So the thing we track is scaling size. That's the big thing, right? So we know we can reverse the cryopreservation embryos, a couple 100 cells. We don't previously cryopreserved worms.
Speaker 8:That's 1,000 cells. Now rat killing, that massively scales up number of cells. But just, yeah, it's basically scaling size. Because as you get larger, it's way harder to cool something quickly. Imagine you put a snowflake on your hand.
Speaker 8:It'll rewarm very quickly. But a large turkey for Thanksgiving takes maybe a day or more to defrost.
Speaker 1:Interesting. So you're what what what what is one, I I I kinda wanna get a sense of like timelines for the company specifically. Raised $58,000,000 like you wanna deploy that effectively but quickly to show progress. But, like, what kind of milestones are you looking at and what is the actual I'm assuming the hardware that you're developing is, focusing on cooling cooling things quickly, consistently. And then is it a machine that you're trying to scale up over time?
Speaker 1:Or what does the actual hardware look like? And then what are the milestones that you're trying to achieve?
Speaker 8:Yeah. So the cool thing with this new round that we just are announcing today with Fund, really excited to have them on board. Also, Lux is joining in Field Ventures. Just shout out to all of our investors who've been awesome. Basically, the goal is to get organ products into the clinic.
Speaker 8:So right now, we're working on developing a lot of the protocols. We build new chemical formulations. We build cooling systems. We build rewarming systems. So basically, just iterating as quickly as possible.
Speaker 8:One of things I love about this problem is the speed of iteration preclinically. It's very unlike a lot of biology, you can just test in whole human sized organs a lot of your protocols weekly. Yeah, we're just working on getting that product to the point we can bring it to patients.
Speaker 2:Take me into sci fi world. Sleep pods for space travel, what are the implications? What are the trade offs of that? Is it just like I go to sleep, I wake up on Mars? Are we gonna be going to Alpha Centauri?
Speaker 2:When you really, really play out the future, like, I've always I've always had the the mind that if we're going to places that are light years away, the speed of light holds, the the laws of physics hold, and so you're you're embarking on, you know, thousands of years' journey. You're gonna have these colony ships where the people that arrive are completely different than the people that leave, but it sounds like there might be an alternative path.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah. And even here on Earth, the scenario we were talking about offline
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Was this sense of, let's say you're a 80 year old billionaire. You've experienced everything there is to experience in life in the current era and you your technology exists and I and I go, I want to just be, you know, put to I wanna hibernate for the next fifty years and I'm gonna just be placed on my little doomsday ranch in New Zealand and I'm gonna have a staff whose job is to just protect me effectively, hang out and make sure nobody messes with me while I'm asleep. In fifty years, I wanna wake up and so this 80 year old can go from being 80. Yeah. They can just effectively like go to sleep for fifty years and wake up and suddenly they get to experience something completely novel.
Speaker 1:And even though they're 80 years old, they get this experience of being in an entirely different era of human history. And I think a lot of people would
Speaker 2:You get watch to the all the Avatar sequels. They don't need to wait.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. A lot of a lot of people would get to the point in their life where they're like, Okay. I've seen enough. I've done enough.
Speaker 1:Sure. I I while I still have life in me, I wanna be able to see something, you know, completely new. And there's a risk that the, you know, global collapse happens, my my doomsday ranch gets raided and Mhmm. Everything gets but but like there's the multi planetary future and possibility but there's also just life here on Earth. If life here on Earth is gonna look wild and different if you're obsessed with the future today and you're impatient and you're not you're not necessarily believe that you're gonna live another fifty years, you could teleport effectively.
Speaker 8:Yeah. So I mean, one thing to your point is if you want humans in space, think someone seems to be like, if you want humans in space, need AI. Plausibly, you need definitely spaceships. But you also need cryo. It's the best way to allow for long term transportation.
Speaker 8:Even in the near term, one thing that we really care about, just helping people who would otherwise not get therapies, make it to their critical point. So my co founder Hunter, his father-in-law was diagnosed with metastatic mesothelioma. He missed a critical clinical trial by a couple months, wasn't eligible because of the severity of his disease. That could have given him extra time with his family, might have given him a short remission. And I think it's just really or I don't For me, it's much more near term.
Speaker 8:Let's just help people who are literally not I knew somebody who got metastatic melanoma. And because he got it, the year that he got it got ten plus years of prognosis. The year before would have been six to nine months. Wow. 2014 to 2015 was a really, really crazy time to be in that to be a patient from yeah.
Speaker 2:What about the pure sci fi thought experiment of cryo as a time machine that jumps you forward? If a device existed right over there, you walk through that door, and when you walk out in a blink of an eye, it's thirty years later, Yeah. Would you do it? Jordy, would you do that? It's such an interesting thought experiment because there's all these risks.
Speaker 2:Bad things could happen. But great things could happen. It's kind of a proxy on your overall view on optimism over some period of time. I mean, would want to take my family. Can I don't know?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I can easily envision the scenario of being towards the end of your life and just being like, one more year of being in this retirement home.
Speaker 2:But what if you're young? What if you're 20 and you're
Speaker 1:just Young, I'm not doing it. I love the present
Speaker 2:moment. Want to see I'm impatient for my flying car. I'm just going to jump forward to 2050 and just be the most out of the loop person in the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think the question comes down to how resource is it, resource intensive.
Speaker 2:Assume it's free for this thought experiment.
Speaker 1:Okay. Assume it's free. I'm not doing it. I like surfing the present. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't need to I don't need to teleport. But I can easily imagine
Speaker 2:Certainly in the medical case, It makes tons of sense.
Speaker 1:Obviously, they're If you're incredibly AGI'd held and you believe that abundance is around the corner, would you freeze yourself if the alternative was working at McDonald's?
Speaker 2:There's no risk. Yeah. I mean, even even in the medical scenario, like, there's no risk that you just get hit by a bus or less in this thought experiment. So you get to jump forward to the post scarcity AGI future.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Some people might just Some people might take it. I wonder that
Speaker 2:I wonder what the yeah. I'll see you on the other side. Be fascinating. Have you seen Passengers?
Speaker 8:Passengers? No. I need to
Speaker 2:explain Yeah. You're familiar. It's a it's a good movie about this exact about this exact topic. Well, you said you're building this company as a hard tech, deep tech company. What does that actually look like?
Speaker 2:Do do you
Speaker 1:have clean room or like crazy sci fi Yeah. Yeah. But application should pragmatic. Totally. Here's a problem that is solvable.
Speaker 1:We know we can do it already. We need to apply it to a new domain like kidneys or like these other organs.
Speaker 8:Exactly. And
Speaker 1:that's helpful with recruiting because it's like, hey, somebody that is more risk averse could be like, I'm working at a medical device startup. And someone else can be like, I'm working on cryotherapy.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:And you're both working on the same technology.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 8:Yeah. No, exactly. I think that's one cool thing about it. I think also for us, deep tech means we do almost everything we can in house. We build every part of the system that we can in house.
Speaker 8:We have a team of amazing engineers, neuroscientists, molecular biologists, chemists. It's like we try to it's like move full stack in house. It's like thing that if you run a company, just your iteration cycle is the main limiter on your progress. So the more that you can do houses
Speaker 1:And it's good that you talk fast because you talk quite so fast with us. No. It's good. It's good. You can just you're you're you know, a one minute for you is like
Speaker 8:Faster or
Speaker 1:is two minutes
Speaker 2:for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, are what are some crazy have any other countries done anything? Do you believe like Russia or China?
Speaker 2:Many humans do you think are frozen right now?
Speaker 8:In US?
Speaker 2:Humans anywhere in the world or interstellar.
Speaker 1:She sends a Slack message off. Many we got?
Speaker 2:How many we got? No,
Speaker 5:not you.
Speaker 8:No, I mean, for context, I think that there are these products where it's like you cryopreserve someone, but you're just really not sure if the procedure you use to cryopreserve them is going to bring it's possible to bring them back. I think we just don't really know how to think about that.
Speaker 1:But is it like 100? Because we've heard
Speaker 2:lore about like, oh, this person had their head frozen. This person had their body froze.
Speaker 8:I would say a lot of those stories are not true.
Speaker 2:They're just not true at all?
Speaker 8:Yeah. Or like a lot of the really popular ones, I think, are incorrect.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:What about what what if what if what what countries are are investing outside of The US or kind of care about this problem area or opportunity?
Speaker 8:I think China might be. Like, I'm not on the ground there at all, enough to know. But that's that's something that, yeah, I've heard a little bit about.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Do the printers work in your office?
Speaker 8:Why do you ask?
Speaker 2:There's this there's this funny interaction where in the early 2000s, Peter Thiel went to tour freeze your body type of startup. The contract that he had to sign, he was like, I'm all in on this technology. Print up the contract. I'll sign it. Think he was there with Luke Nosek.
Speaker 2:And the printer wasn't working. And he was like, that wasn't very didn't instill a lot of confidence that if they couldn't get their printer working, he was like, I ready to trust them with freezing my entire body if their printer doesn't work. So it's like how you do anything is how you do everything.
Speaker 8:Yeah. It was better. That's where, like, organs are a good bar. Was just like, we could help some transplantations. You know, like, yeah.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yeah. It's interesting. There's it feels like what you're doing would be very disruptive to the traditional organ transplant business that is
Speaker 2:Would it be? Or is it very synergistic, I
Speaker 8:think for companies like Blade, it's like they're getting a couple 100,000,000 revenue off of literally just helicopters transporting organs. Like, I think that's that's the part that we wanna take off.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, sure.
Speaker 1:Like super time sensitive. Yeah. Yeah. But it'd be much cheaper to just put it on, like, a FedEx truck
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 8:Or Exactly.
Speaker 1:Or just yeah. Just some type of
Speaker 8:Exactly. Like almost yeah.
Speaker 1:Falling it
Speaker 2:down the stairs.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But she's gonna make
Speaker 2:Have you ever had anything delivered by
Speaker 1:I mean, the system's gonna be indestructible. Right? You're gonna be able to throw it of the building.
Speaker 2:Right? Does she did she say that? Did she promise an indestructible device?
Speaker 1:I I believe. I believe in the size Add
Speaker 2:it to the to do list. Make product indestructible.
Speaker 8:Well, yeah. We'll get right on that. But I think most people in transplant, way better for patients. They don't have to get a last minute call. For surgeons, they don't have to do an overnight where they're doing literally an all nighter to do a surgery.
Speaker 8:That's yeah.
Speaker 2:And that probably makes it harder to actually be alert. There's a ton of examples of the night shift, just quality. And even in manufacturing, the night shift often performs slightly worse. And you can tell in quality assurance just for making widgets, because people are tired. And it's harder to get the best people to show up in the middle of the night.
Speaker 2:And so you could imagine just unlocking the ability for surgeons to be well rested is probably another value add.
Speaker 8:We would all love for surgeons to be well
Speaker 2:rested. Of course, of course. Well, what's the interaction with the FDA like? What's the process like? I was talking to the Neuralink team about that.
Speaker 2:And the FDA feels extremely difficult to deal with, like very slow. But then they've figured out how to move very quickly and have a great relationship. So how are you thinking about the FDA relationship?
Speaker 8:I mean, think one thing the FDA and I can't speak on their behalf, obviously. But just take them seriously as partners. Like, Okay, when we kind of are going to engage with them, we want to bring them all the data that we would want to see for part I think a lot of the reason the FDA is often portrayed as bad is that there's not a lot of drugs that actually work. And so they're looking at very difficult evidence analyzed. It's like, we just want to bring them evidence that the technology works and have them give us feedback.
Speaker 2:Yeah. They would they view this as a medical device and take you through the medical device approval process?
Speaker 8:No. That's that's like the default designation likely. But, you know, like, yeah, up to them.
Speaker 2:Cool.
Speaker 1:They could create a cool sci fi path
Speaker 3:to that.
Speaker 2:They should. Anything's possible today.
Speaker 1:Anything's possible. Yeah. Yeah. One executive order and there's now the FDA is like, we got a cool sci fi event. We're
Speaker 2:doing some
Speaker 6:cool stuff.
Speaker 1:I mean,
Speaker 2:we got Space Force. We're going
Speaker 1:to you've the moon. Been in a blockbuster sci fi film Yeah. Just come over here.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's great.
Speaker 1:Where else where else are you most excited in in longevity broadly? Yeah. You've invested in a bunch of companies.
Speaker 8:Yeah. I'm sure
Speaker 1:you can a good opportunity to to pump your bags and talk about sectors broadly.
Speaker 8:I mean, speaking of the FDA, one thing I'm just really excited about is that the FDA gave acceptance of efficacy data for life extension, like for the first time in past. So like, shout out to Loyal. Yeah. Mean, that I had people outside the who don't get it. Like, that was a huge deal.
Speaker 8:The FDA has never thought about lifespan extension, the possibility of that on the label for a drug for dogs to start. But yeah, that's just it's really exciting. So them accepting that concept a really big deal. So shout out to us to lean and loyal for kind of making that getting that through. I think that's really interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. It is interesting that a precursor to getting a drug approved is a problem that they've defined. And how do you define that? Yeah, that's very good. What do you make of declining life expectancy in The US?
Speaker 2:Do you have a thesis on it, do you think it's going to turn around? Any predictions?
Speaker 8:That's a good question. I mean, I think, like for context, my field of expertise is like, can we make small molecule or sort of, I guess, larger drugs that predictively extend human lifespan by some amount in the clinical trial? And I think that it's hard. I'm not an expert in things that are not that.
Speaker 1:Well, not being an expert on something has never stopped anyone from
Speaker 2:a podcast. So what's next? What was the total raise? 50 something?
Speaker 8:So 58,000,000.
Speaker 2:58,000,000?
Speaker 8:Yep. It was yeah. Well, 52 technically in the current round, including about six point of saves that were
Speaker 2:What's on the what's on the to do list over the next couple months? Is all hiring? Do you need to find a facility, build out a facility, buy equipment?
Speaker 8:I mean, we just moved into a huge lab. We're hiring, looking for great neuroscientists, engineers. That's kind of the main focus right now. Local biologists as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You said neuroscientists?
Speaker 8:For one part of the company, yes. Okay.
Speaker 2:Can you talk more about that?
Speaker 8:Maybe in the next time that
Speaker 2:we'll talk next time. There's always leaks in the not on the PR release, but you dig into who they're hiring.
Speaker 1:Thirty minutes on the show.
Speaker 8:Cruise page really
Speaker 2:tells more about what's the priorities of the company.
Speaker 1:No, it really does.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100%.
Speaker 1:If a company is worth a lot of money Yeah. And they're not hiring at all
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's a question.
Speaker 1:Bearish. That's
Speaker 8:good question. But my team said that we definitely had to give you guys organ plushies.
Speaker 2:So I
Speaker 5:can give you Oh, fun.
Speaker 1:Little kidney. I love it. You go. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 8:Look at this. This is amazing.
Speaker 1:Very cute. Very cute.
Speaker 8:Just to Great.
Speaker 1:Go. I almost had to get a kidney transplant when I was
Speaker 8:Wait, God. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:Five years old. I had I got an insane E. Coli. And so I was on full dialysis for a long time. And I was looking really bad.
Speaker 1:My mom was And
Speaker 2:you're still going ahead with the calf implants. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So those will be frozen?
Speaker 1:Those are yeah. Not not even just
Speaker 2:implants You're on
Speaker 1:the donors. Calf transplants.
Speaker 2:Calf transplants.
Speaker 1:It's the new level.
Speaker 2:From the biggest the biggest mass mass
Speaker 1:Mass
Speaker 2:mass possible. I want Ronnie Coleman's calves.
Speaker 1:I'm like Yeah. That that could be a good way to test. You know? Like, people there's a lot of people that would, like, pay to
Speaker 2:get a transplant. You know? Heck.
Speaker 1:It's slower stakes than, like, a organ that needs to really function.
Speaker 2:Just throw it I've been trying to gain 20 pounds of lean mass. It sounds like I could just get that transferred in in a weekend. Just
Speaker 1:These are these are great. You gotta do it for the whole for the whole body too.
Speaker 2:You gotta throw your logo on here or
Speaker 1:something. Yeah.
Speaker 11:Need to
Speaker 3:throw your
Speaker 1:logo here.
Speaker 2:Some embroidery.
Speaker 8:Next time.
Speaker 2:Next time. Next time. Well, thank you so much for on the show.
Speaker 1:Super exciting. Gong for you.
Speaker 2:That
Speaker 1:coming on the was one
Speaker 2:of the
Speaker 1:best hits we've seen.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Amazing.
Speaker 2:Back to the show.
Speaker 1:That was awesome.
Speaker 2:Adquick.com. Out of home advertising made easy and measurable. Say goodbye to the headaches of out of home advertising. Only Adquick combines technology out of home expertise and data to enable efficient seamless ad buying across the globe.
Speaker 1:Speaking of out of home advertising, I saw that Avi launched Avi launched
Speaker 2:friend.com billboards?
Speaker 1:Friend.com billboards in LA.
Speaker 2:Oh, I I thinking I told you saw. I saw one on the way in. It was they were putting it up when I came in. We interviewed him that day. I've seen them everywhere now.
Speaker 2:He really wasn't kidding about it being a massive campaign. Still wanna put him in the truth zone on it being the biggest billboard campaign of all time, but he's winning me over. It might be pretty big.
Speaker 1:But I was thinking We'd
Speaker 2:love to know how
Speaker 1:it can be. Like a field trip. It'd be good? An advertising Intern
Speaker 2:challenge. Tell her what you think.
Speaker 4:There's one super close to where we usually get breakfast.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:I've seen it passing.
Speaker 1:But
Speaker 2:Yeah. Gotta You go take some pictures, put them on the timeline.
Speaker 1:Chat says, holy gong. That was an amazing hit. I love that she did
Speaker 2:She sent it.
Speaker 1:She had her bag
Speaker 5:in one hand and just One
Speaker 2:yeah. The backhand, the different gong techniques, they really they really bring out the personality. You can tell a lot about a founder by how they hit the gong at the TV panel.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The the Avi has a massive billboard. It's, like, covering, like, three stories of a building. Gotta get
Speaker 2:that Anyway, Nick says, it's amazing how much better September is than its evil calendar twin March. Instead of a winter that just won't go away, you have a wonderful toned down encore of summer.
Speaker 1:September in California, best month.
Speaker 2:You think so?
Speaker 1:Name a better month.
Speaker 2:It's kinda gloomy out these days.
Speaker 1:It's there's been a but that's because there's tropical storms.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:It's been it's been pushing up. It's still warm. The water's warm. September, undefeated. Undefeated.
Speaker 2:Anyway, let's move over to Delhi and Esperuhov over
Speaker 1:One of the hardest periods of my life was the 2016. That summer, my first startup ran out of cash and we had to shut down. YC, the Thiel Fellowship and our investors bet on us and we weren't able to deliver at the Well, that sound effect is now going to be on our website.
Speaker 2:So if you're going through
Speaker 1:a similar phase, you can go hit it for yourself. Everybody's been through this before. It's absolutely well, not everybody. But But most successful I entrepreneurs mean, entrepreneur I've been hard times. Been there.
Speaker 3:It's been
Speaker 2:very rough.
Speaker 1:John's been there. We've all been there.
Speaker 2:But he built back.
Speaker 1:Brutal. You gotta go It's a comeback
Speaker 2:story, baby.
Speaker 1:I love four forty two saves on this. People are just like, yeah, I'm in a dark place. That's the in
Speaker 2:a lock in. Gotta lock in. You love to see it. So he said, almost exactly four years later, after meandering journey through another startup, my early my early years of investing, I met Will Brewery, and we decided to start Varda together. So if you had a summer in 2025 that was like mine in 2016, my advice is to you is just one step at a time.
Speaker 2:You got it. Lock in. It's time to build. Good stuff. In other news.
Speaker 2:Jiro. Jiro. Jiro Ono, the famous sushi chef is turning 100. And he says, the secret to longevity is to keep continue working. That's one option.
Speaker 2:I also try to walk every day. Even after I turn 100, I want to continue working. That's the best remedy. Completely agree. People need purpose.
Speaker 2:Look at how old he is. What a beast. He's going to run.
Speaker 1:Nelson AirPods Pro three impressions ANC significantly better than
Speaker 2:Active noise cancellation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. APP two. Fit is more comfortable. Transparency mode is
Speaker 2:weirdly sibilant and scratchy.
Speaker 1:Not a fan of the sound signature too bassy. I'm a wired guy.
Speaker 2:Little mixed. Well, they might I mean, that's what was thinking. An opportunity would be make a version of AirPods Pro with wires. That would get you over there, over the hill. We could do it.
Speaker 2:Anyway, Bezel. Get bezel dot com. Your Bezel Concierge is available now to source you any watch on the planet. Seriously, any watch. And we have our next guests in the restream waiting room hopping in the TBP And Ultradome.
Speaker 2:We have Shervin Peshavar and Kimmel Musk. Welcome to the show. How are you guys doing? Good to see What's
Speaker 1:going on, guys?
Speaker 2:Hey. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Great to have you both back on.
Speaker 2:Good to have you back on the show.
Speaker 12:It's been a busy few weeks since, we last spoke.
Speaker 2:I know. I know. We saw we saw the the the display at the Vatican. We were blown away. Jordy didn't think it was real.
Speaker 2:Think the first time he saw it, then we saw more images. Were like, it's very hard to tell on either.
Speaker 1:That's your problem. It's like people are just assuming like,
Speaker 2:oh, it's a ah. It's a ah. You know? But it wasn't There's no
Speaker 12:way this is real. Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 2:It's unbelievable. But anyway, give us the update. What's new in your world?
Speaker 12:Well, it's just been extraordinary. You know? We we closed our round as as we discussed last time I was on the show.
Speaker 8:And then made it to Burning Man, survived.
Speaker 12:Yes. Went we went to Vatican, and we had just the most incredible show. It was just Yeah. A time when, you know, we had Charlie Kirk being assassinated that week. We were able to just be sad with the world for a little moment, and then to also be joyful, to go and celebrate the fact that we are in this place as as a as a human species.
Speaker 12:Not not really Catholic church, really just about about everyone and grace for the world.
Speaker 9:Yeah.
Speaker 7:So inspiring. I had my father and my daughter there, and, there there wasn't a dry eye in there. There were 300,000 people there. When Pope Francis', image went up, it was just so emotional and
Speaker 12:We did a memorial for Pope Francis. It was, the original idea for this was it came came back in June 2024. We did a show in Cannes, France. It's actually the same show that Chervin saw. And, the chairman for the Jubilee, Olivier Francois, found me in this conference and said, we just have to do something for the Jubilee.
Speaker 12:Didn't really believe it. And then one thing led to the other. But, actually, that was also when, when Chervin got involved. And Chervin and I have known each other forever, for, like, fifteen years. But what I love about Chubb, we just, we just spent time together traveling the world.
Speaker 12:And, back in May or June, I think we were we were with Pharrell Williams at in Madrid for a show to to explain to him what we were gonna do at the Vatican because he he wanted to do it with us, but we hadn't figured out what to do yet. And, Shervin said, hey. Let's find a way to work together. So, he led the round. Jeffrey joined, and he's also joined us Sherwin has joined us as our global expansion adviser.
Speaker 12:Oh. So we are we're taking one country at a time.
Speaker 2:Very exciting. Very exciting.
Speaker 1:How quickly do you guys want to scale? Because as as an American, I want you guys doing, like, you know, at least a show a day here in The US before we give too much love.
Speaker 8:Yeah. You'll
Speaker 12:you'll you'll be amazed. We now this past weekend, we did five shows around the world.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 12:One in two in Australia, two in Europe, two in The US. And we're really we're really constrained by the number of drones we have. So we are building drones as fast as humanly possible, and we have incredible artists like Andre Bucelli or Pharrell Williams that wanna do amazing things with us. And then the more countries we open, which is what Siobhan is helping us with, the more attractive this becomes. Because if you're if you're Andrea Bocelli, for example, his tours are global.
Speaker 12:It doesn't really help to do just The US. You have
Speaker 1:to You have can't plan a plan a tour and think, oh, well, I only have this tech technology for these shows. Right?
Speaker 2:It's Someone someone in the chat is asking where can people get tickets for the next one? I imagine they're all over the world, but is do you have an email list, something to look
Speaker 12:at place to go is go to Fever. So there's a, amazing company called Fever. It's like a Ticketmaster for the world. So Ticketmaster is focused on The US. Fever is all around the world.
Speaker 12:And, we the show we're doing right now is called Drone Art Show, just very simple. They can search for Drone Art Show. They'll see what cities we're in.
Speaker 2:Oh, cool.
Speaker 12:This past weekend, we were in Chicago
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 12:Madrid, Brisbane, and Orlando. And I mean, so it's just just so many. Yeah. It's better to look it up.
Speaker 2:Or you can't be at every
Speaker 12:You gotta come in your town.
Speaker 11:Did anything The idea
Speaker 12:is actually, like, kinda like Cirque du Soleil. We want people to get excited when Nova comes to town.
Speaker 2:Totally. And did anything from the sorry. What was that?
Speaker 7:I just wanna say how excited we are, to be and honored we are to be able to lead the round, the $50,000,000 round in Nova Sky stories. I think the world of Kimball, I I think he has one of the greatest hearts and one of the biggest visionaries that I've seen. And, he always talked about cracking people's hearts open and, inspiring people. And, one of the great feces we have is that the world AI is never gonna replace the the human heart, human emotion. The algorithms are gonna rationally try to explain it, but, human emotion and feelings are gonna grow in value.
Speaker 7:And what he did at the Vatican really did crack the hearts of all the people that saw it and the millions of people that saw it around the world. And so
Speaker 12:And it's actually available on Disney plus It's gonna be there forever.
Speaker 7:Yeah. Everyone should watch it. It it it gives you a peek of a completely new medium in entertainment, that's combining human creativity and and AI and and drones and automation. So, for Software Capital Leader, it's a big honor, to be able to work again with Kim Kimball and and also work with people like Katzenberg and others, it's a it's a great honor. So we're we're very excited.
Speaker 2:Did anything about the Vatican show? And I'm sure you got a ton of inbound interest from customers. Did anything update you about the shape of the business? What interesting pockets of opportunity might exist for future shows? Did you have any learnings coming out of the Vatican show?
Speaker 12:I think the I think the biggest learning we got is that 300,000 people came out of their homes. It was a free concert, so not ticketed
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 12:But not really well promoted because it's a Vatican. They don't really know how to promote their own thing.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 12:And we had 300,000 people come to the show live. So I I think that we've not really opened up our eye our eyes to shows that have that level of scale in in the audience. And we've now gotten, you know, we we're very busy doing regular shows. The Vatican is not a regular show. That is a that is just absolutely next level, and you just have to watch it to understand.
Speaker 12:But we now have interest for people, whether it's America's two hundred and fiftieth or, repeating a a Catholic oriented show in Brazil or Mhmm. Doing something about the history of, The UAE. We we these are these are hundreds of thousands of people will come to see the show. We might ticket You them
Speaker 1:guys have a a problem where when you get into that scale of an audience, it's hard to ticket that many people because you're talking about just putting it over I
Speaker 12:don't I don't even know how to do it. Now Yeah. I believe that I believe that when our our ticketing partners say, no, it's it's possible. But I don't know how to do it. So the ticket dealers
Speaker 1:say that anything's possible. But, yeah, mean, it's cool to think about, you know, a city, like a city, for example, or a town saying, we wanna do this to celebrate something, we're just gonna pay for it because it's almost a public benefit. Right?
Speaker 12:Right. And and many countries wanna do that. Obviously, United States wants to do that for America's two hundred and fiftieth. We we're gonna do what we're doing we're doing we'll do many, but we're gonna do a very big one in in North Dakota for Teddy Roosevelt's library being opened on July 4 for the two hundred and fiftieth. And it's I would say at North Dakota, there's gonna be less people, but it will be open to the public.
Speaker 12:And it'll it'll be tens of thousands of people.
Speaker 2:Are there any
Speaker 12:stickers would open our eyes is how how much the public wanna be in the live show, the live experience, because they could just easily have watched it on TV if they if that's what really what they wanted.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But then you can just watch CGI. You know? You can just watch Yeah.
Speaker 7:You can watch animation on computer. Seeing it in the sky three d around you. It's the the visceral experience of it. You just see the you hear the who's and ah's, and and
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 7:People are excited. So
Speaker 12:There's something physical that the drones bring, and it truly they are drones. I mean, they're they're used as weapons, in other other parts of the world. I think that physicality gives a visceral alertness that you don't get whether you if you're watching it on TV or on Instagram. And, and it's still awesome on TV, and it's awesome on Instagram, but it's it's just nothing like in person.
Speaker 7:I also wanna just touch on how fast this is growing, just as an investor. Like, to be able to see a founder and a company and a team, really gigascale this idea, better than anyone else in the world. When when I got involved late last year, how many tickets last year
Speaker 12:was for? In 2024, we sold 6,000 tickets
Speaker 7:6,000 tickets.
Speaker 12:Our show our shows. We should have half a million sold this year.
Speaker 2:Half a million. Going to million.
Speaker 7:So it it you know, I've been traveling around the world with him and talking to sovereigns and, you know, around the world and closing deals and hand to hand combat. And and, and you're just seeing the reception, the excitement of, of the sovereigns and the partners around the world. This is one of the fastest growing businesses that I've ever seen, and going around with them has felt like the way I used to, you know, go around with Travis, you know, gigascaling
Speaker 11:I knew we a
Speaker 7:tiny company with 1,000,000 revenue to to multiple billions. And
Speaker 12:And it actually does matter going country to country. You actually have to get on a plane. You have
Speaker 7:to Get on a plane.
Speaker 12:Work with the aviation authorities in that country. You have to, navigate the bureaucracy. These are actual flight vehicles. So if you, if you, for for example, we we have we we work in Mexico, but every drone we transfer over to Mexico is the same paperwork as transferring a seven forty seven to to, Mexico.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah. From from a from an investment standpoint, you know, if if I was underwriting this, it's like you look at the mode. It's like the regulatory mode of like being able to fly Totally. Having government having these relationships. The technological mode of just like being able to coordinate, you know, thousands and thousands of drones simultaneously.
Speaker 1:The IP, just the IP itself, right, is getting partnering with IP in different categories. And then obviously the relationships with even the individual venues to be able to, like, support and put on these. There's so many different layers to it where
Speaker 12:one of other funny you say the venues. The venues is a is one of the greatest modes out there. And I mean it because it is hand to hand combat figuring out each venue. You know, what is the weather like? What are what's what's the size of the audience?
Speaker 12:What's the ticket price you can charge? What's what kind of a show? Is this the Vivaldi four season show with a live orchestra? Or is the should this be more of a of a a choir with Pharrell Williams? You know, it's every venue is is is is different.
Speaker 12:And so that that's just it's, it's just almost like a real estate play. You just you just go one Yeah. One after other, and you and you now all of a sudden have a portfolio of of venues or real estate that you can use when when it makes sense. Absolutely. This pat this time last year, we we might have had, I don't know, 20 venues under our belt, and now we have a thousand.
Speaker 1:Do you are you guys, limited at all, physically, like, being able to have enough drones to be able to put on the
Speaker 12:We are absolutely limited by number of drones. We are building them as fast as we can
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 12:And it's not near fast enough. We we are, we are we are constantly surprised. You know, it's a it's a six month supply chain. Right? So you order everything.
Speaker 12:You got battery chemistries to sort out. You got, all of the all of these nuances to the supply chain that change over time. And so if I were to predict our business now, it's September, what is it gonna be like in March next year, I'm gonna be so wrong. It's just, there's just no chance I get it right. And so we've just decided to just make as many drones as we possibly can.
Speaker 12:That's the reason we took the fundraise so that we're not we're not keeping that in our in our back pocket as an issue. Like, oh, well, what about the drone? What right now, we literally if someone said to us, you know, here's a gazillion dollars. We want you to fly a show like the Vatican. We just just don't have the drones.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 12:We we have to plan for sort of March and onwards for next year. And it it's gonna be great, but it's
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then now you get the you get the benefit of having to manage fleets already on different continents. Yeah. It sounds it sounds
Speaker 12:Anyway, so so in a sense, the the the drone shortage enables us to train the teams in different countries so we're not just, scaling so fast that you know, safety is our, at the end of the day, number one priority, and we've we've got a 100% safety record and plan to keep it. And I do think there's some value to being forced to to go a little slower, but we are definitely being forced to go slower.
Speaker 2:Well, congratulations on the fundraise.
Speaker 7:It's a three sided marketplace is what we realized as we analyze the business is that you have the, the there are three sides of the venues, dominating the venues around the world, and and you get pretty creative with with the kinds of venues you can do outdoors. And then you have the consumers, who are coming and buying the tickets and and coming to it. As the venues grow, you have larger and larger people. There were 5,000 people that got ticketed to the show in Madrid, and there was 300,000 people that show up showed up to the free free show in in in Rome. And then you have the IP on the on the third side of the marketplace.
Speaker 7:So you get more and more content, and you get more and more and more, beautiful content that he's creating. It's basically building like a Pixar and a Disney all in one inside of a technology company. So
Speaker 12:I I love the Pixar analogy. And and, actually, Disney back in the early days was they were they they to solve the technology as well. Yeah. And I I read Walt Disney's biography. It's fascinating how it took them ten years to add sound to Mickey Mouse.
Speaker 12:And, well, Mickey Mickey Mouse came out with sound. Was the first form of sound. Ten years.
Speaker 2:Ten years.
Speaker 12:And it took us this is gonna sound crazy, but Intel was building this company ten years before I acquired it. Probably took us twelve years to add, sound.
Speaker 1:It's remarkable.
Speaker 12:And it's just like, why? That's just crazy. Well, actually, this is really hard. And then Yep. Our shows are now becoming ninety minutes long, but that is a 2025 invention.
Speaker 12:That is not Yeah. Pretty twenty twenty five. And now you have to create content that's ninety minutes long. Just because you can technically do it doesn't mean you actually can do it well. And so that's where the Pixar comes in.
Speaker 12:When you the creatives working with the engineers back and forth and pushing each other.
Speaker 1:I love businesses like this that are just such a simple idea, but incredibly incredibly difficult to execute. But when if you can do it, it's just, you know, the value is just
Speaker 7:The invention of new form factors and new new mediums of communication are are some of the most exciting things to to invest in. And the analogy that I I I was using, I love that movie Babylon, which is, like, about the history of Hollywood and and movies going from silent to sound and what a transformation that was. And that's what Kimball's really doing with Nova Sky Stories. He's invented a new type of of medium for for creative expression and entertainment and then applied sound to it, live sound. So the fever shows
Speaker 12:are Yeah. Choreographed the live sound. It like, drones are drones are keep in mind, these are thousands of drones choreographed to the beats to the songs that are performed live. Orchestra. That's really hard.
Speaker 12:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, congratulations on the fundraise. Let's ring the gong. One more time.
Speaker 8:I love it. Great gong. I love it.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Amazing stuff. I can't I can't wait to see let us know when the first or we'll get on the email list. But excited to to have the first show.
Speaker 12:Yeah. Just go to fever and then for the show, go to Disney plus.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Amazing. Have a great rest of your day. Congratulations.
Speaker 1:Yep. Cheers.
Speaker 2:We will see the leader. Did you see Chinese automaker BYD's u nine Extreme EV just broke the top speed record at Germany's ATP proving grounds? They beat the Bugatti Chiron, which went 304 miles an hour point seven seven. They went 308 miles an hour. The car has almost 3,000 horsepower.
Speaker 1:You saw that Berkshire Hathaway sold out entirely. They own zero
Speaker 2:Well, I know why. Because, oh, this fancy car, everyone's so obsessed with it. Track grade battery, blah blah blah. You know it's Nurburgring time? Six fifty nine, ten seconds slower than a Chevy Corvette.
Speaker 2:What are we doing here? 3,000 horsepower, you can't even get around a green hell in under six fifty five? What are we doing?
Speaker 1:Straight line speed.
Speaker 2:Ridiculous. Not impressed. Not the medical care. Go back to the drawing board, China. Try again.
Speaker 2:Because if you're getting lapped by a Chevy Corvette on the old Norse life, what are you doing? Anyway, if you
Speaker 1:wanna I'll let you
Speaker 2:take a hop on a wander, find your happy place, book a wander, and it's with inspiring views, hotel grade amenities, dreamy beds, top tier cleaning, twenty four seven concierge service. It's a vacation home, but better, maybe you book a wander next to the Nordschleife and take a couple laps around the old Nurburgring. But we have our next guest, Steven. Welcome, stream. How are
Speaker 6:you doing, Steven?
Speaker 2:Good to see you.
Speaker 6:Good afternoon. How are you?
Speaker 2:Give us the news. What's the fundraising announcement? Let's ring the gong at the start of the segment, then we'll get into the details.
Speaker 6:Yes. So big announcement. We have, just, raised $12,000,000 in our big news. Right. It's not even a gong.
Speaker 6:We have a gong. We've just raised $12,000,000 led by Acme Capital and with the colead with Future Future Ventures, and this adds on top of the already $8,000,000 we've raised from Construct and Abstract and Generational Partners and Village Global and X Fund. So that brings us to about $20,000,000 raised, and we're very excited for the for you know, after this financing round for the firepower gets us to move forward.
Speaker 2:Talk about the state of the business. Talk about the semiconductors, and try and put it in in terms, like, relative to what else is going in the market. People have a high level understanding of, like, you know, GPUs and CPUs, but what are you doing specifically in semiconductors?
Speaker 6:Yeah. So that's a good way to put it. CPUs, GPUs, FPGAs, these are the things that people usually think about when they think about semiconductors. They they tend to be the things that come top of mind, and they are indeed two thirds of the of the chip industry. So the trillion dollar chip industry, they're they're two thirds of that.
Speaker 6:But there's this other one third, which is, analog. And analog tends to be, overlooked, but it is unbelievably important. You have, the the way we are communicating today and the way you are, you know, beaming out your your your show to everyone who is watching, this is all done over, you know, analog digital signals processors and many, many, many, many different, you know, balancing signals across the planet. And then I think it tends to be overlooked, but it's unbelievably important. It's unbelievably important in military warfare.
Speaker 6:It's unbelievably important in communications, and that's where we've really focused. Now big picture, Sphere is a a is a chip and product company.
Speaker 1:The difference
Speaker 6:in us and everyone else on the planet is that, we, at the base of what we do, have an AI engine that allows us to, from concept all the way to fabrication, produce, you know, produce chips that are entirely AI designed. Philosophically, we we think that chip design by humans is coming to an end. It already has mostly ended in the world of digital. So CPUs and GPUs and FPGAs, they're not designed the layouts of those chips are not designed by hand. You actually have TSMC basically do the layout for
Speaker 5:all the logic gates and things
Speaker 6:like that for you. But in analog, it's still done by hand, and we think that the thing we are conquering today is we're putting that to an end, and we are, in doing so, building a product company around that where everything is designed by AI, which
Speaker 2:So is it correct to characterize you as a as a fabless chip design company? I come to you with a something that can be done in math, digital signal processing. I have some stream of information that's coming in. I need to transform that with math. You're gonna use AI to design a chip, and then you're gonna call an actual fab to go and make those chips, and then you send me the completed chips.
Speaker 6:Yeah. So, just a bit about what
Speaker 2:we do today.
Speaker 6:We, found an interesting niche in, the defense sector
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 6:As a good starting point where we companies like like Andoril, actually, specifically Andoril and some others come to us and they say, hey. I have an electronic warfare system or I have a SIGINT system, and I need, an analog front end for it. Right? I need a bunch of chips at the analog front end, and, these are, you know, pretty critical. They come to us.
Speaker 6:They give us a custom spec, and then we go ahead and we go on to our fab, you know, and we say, hey. We're you know, this is the design. Our AI came up with actually hundreds of possible designs, and these are their performance characteristics, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. We work between the customer and the fab, and then we fab it out. We package it.
Speaker 6:We ship it off. We're actually you know, actually, the big thing we're you know, we've we've done over the last, you know, year and a half since starting the company is is is is build up this capability around these small RF components. And we're actually gonna start, building a joint venture with one of the big defense primes, one of the big four, I guess.
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 6:To allow what?
Speaker 2:Let's go. Yeah. We love let's see. Let's keep it up for the defense primes. I know I know we like Anderil here, but
Speaker 1:They don't get enough love.
Speaker 2:They don't get enough love.
Speaker 6:I I I told the an executive at Northrop about the b two bomber meme Yeah. Where it was feed me three words
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah. Have they seen it?
Speaker 6:And he really he thought it was really funny.
Speaker 2:That's maybe good, maybe bad. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Like, well, it was designed for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That that's actually intended on purpose. Yeah. So so so so what is difficult about scaling the business now? You're raising more money.
Speaker 2:It doesn't sound like you're deploying that capital to build a fab. Are you just hiring more software engineers or AI scientists to build more efficient AI systems that can actually design better chips even beyond superhuman capabilities, but there's still a frontier where we can continue to advance? Like, what what is the longer So term
Speaker 6:we have this business that we've we've really started. We're gonna build a joint venture around in in these in these, I guess, these RF components, which are it's it's a bit of a niche business. And the the few things we're gonna be doing with this capital is, one, actually, you know, investing in expanding out that joint venture, etcetera. There's gonna be some capital investment from us. We we do pay for fabrication, things like that.
Speaker 6:But, also, we're gonna be moving into what you might think was the more high value area of the analog world, which are mixed signal chips. Mhmm. Broadcom and Marvell have made a lot of money over the last, you know, since the AI boom started. And a lot of that is because you need to communicate between two GPUs
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 6:These mixed signal components that Broadcom and and and Marvell and all these guys make. You know? And that's what we're going after next. These mixed signal components or IP blocks. And that's that's the next area we need to conquer.
Speaker 6:That's gonna take quite a bit of hiring. It's gonna you know, whereas our fabrication for the defense stuff was in more reasonably, you know, less expensive nodes. Some of the stuff is gonna be much lower nodes. So any fabrication we do is gonna be much more expensive. But in general, that's the next area we wanna conquer, this mixed signal area, which is the, you know, the the core of what data centers are really using when they think about analog.
Speaker 6:It's a lot of hiring at some fabrication. Might be some test equipment, though we're not sure about that, whether we wanna borrow it or buy it. And, you know, we're hiring software engineers, AI engineers, chip designers, a lot of chip designers. And then, obviously, I need some I need, you know, some business operations people to really come and
Speaker 2:help you out. Dinners. Well, we are rooting for you. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Congrats on the round.
Speaker 2:Congrats. We will talk to you soon. Have a good rest of your day.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Alright. Bye bye. Cheers, Steven.
Speaker 2:Up next, we have robots in space. But first, a startup idea. Bulletproof Silk Charmeuse American Streetwear. Are you familiar with this at all? You can
Speaker 1:Silk that's tough
Speaker 2:silkworms to make a material that's stronger than Kevlar. You can make a whole jacket out of it, which I think should be bulletproof, maybe. I have no idea. I feel like I've been hearing about this, like, make a bulletproof vest that just looks like normal clothes for like decades and no one's ever figured it out. But I have no idea if it's actually possible.
Speaker 2:It sounds very sci fi. I would like to I would like
Speaker 1:to know that. Speaking of sci fi, we have the founders of Icarus Robotics.
Speaker 2:Let's bring them in from the re stream waiting room in Space. To TV here in Elsiegon. Welcome to the stream.
Speaker 1:What's going on, How
Speaker 2:are you guys doing?
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Hey,
Speaker 9:guys. How are you?
Speaker 2:We're good. Hey.
Speaker 13:How's going? It
Speaker 2:Kick kick us off with an introduction. Who are you? What are you doing?
Speaker 9:I'm, Ethan Rojas, cofounder, CEO of Akers Robotics, and we're building the labor force for space. Okay. Finally. Enough to be
Speaker 2:partnered with
Speaker 9:NASA. We're lucky enough to be partnered with some of the commercial space stations and be sending robots to space.
Speaker 1:Sorry. I was talking over here. You said you're partnered with NASA. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 9:We're we're lucky enough to
Speaker 2:be working with some of the
Speaker 9:most amazing teams over there.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Incredible. What what do you wanna do in space? Because I I labor in space. There's so many different things.
Speaker 2:Repair a solar panel. Plug a hole after an asteroid smashed into the side of my spaceship. Like, what what are the tractable problems that you need labor for in space?
Speaker 9:Let Jamie jump into that. He's the labor guy.
Speaker 2:Let's see it.
Speaker 13:Yeah. Yeah. Well, look, we always say, half of the world's GDP is labor, and I think it's gonna be a similar makeup in space. So, one of the big things we realized is that, essentially, we're hyper reliant on astronaut time, when we're in space. And, you know, an hour of astronaut time costs a $135,000 an hour.
Speaker 13:What these people are doing, they have PhDs. Know, they're amazingly skilled. They've all been, you know, air force pilots, all this kind of stuff. But, ultimately, what they end up doing is the logistics and the maintenance that keeps a lot of these habitats and platforms alive. So what we're actually doing is building these dexterous mobile robots, these free flying drones with robotic arms that can essentially go and be controlled from the ground and do a lot of the work, the boring and, yeah, maybe tedious work that the astronauts don't want to do so that they can focus on the revenue generating stuff.
Speaker 13:So that's the experimentation, the science, and the manufacturing.
Speaker 1:That's cool. It's it's it's funny to think about astronauts being like, yeah. I'm worried about losing my job to Icarus robotics. And they're like, you guys are like, no. It's fine.
Speaker 1:You're you're gonna be free your time's gonna be freed up to do higher leverage things.
Speaker 2:And they're like, but I bill at a $135,000 an hour. That's my rate. And I don't wanna see any wage compression. I'd like a raise next year. Inflation's going up.
Speaker 2:I wanna be at a 140 k.
Speaker 1:I don't know. You know, they unfortunately, I don't think that astronauts are taking home a 135 an hour. Otherwise otherwise, the average, you know, J and C kid would be like, I wanna be an astronaut.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I'm not doing a creative thing. I'm going astronaut all the way. So what does testing look like?
Speaker 2:I remember seeing all these videos of astronauts in pools. Can you test in water? Is that useful at all?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you guys just raised 6,000,000. I'm assuming you don't have hardware in space yet, but this round will help you get there.
Speaker 9:Yeah. So that's great.
Speaker 5:We're, we're actually on launch coming up, by the
Speaker 9:'26 or early twenty seven to the ISS. So this is full scale testing. We'll be up there for a year. Right now, we have an entire week of crew time to test, but you're a 100% correct. Testing on Earth is really, really tough.
Speaker 5:Mhmm.
Speaker 9:And the way that you do that is a few modes. You know, one, you can set up an air bearing facility, which gives you kind of, like, a frictionless environment. So think about this like a a really scientific air hockey puck where, you know, the way that there's a thin film of air between the air hockey puck and the actual table. Well, we do that with nitrogen, high high compressed nitrogen, and these things called air bearing. And that gives us really great movement in the x y plane.
Speaker 9:But you're entirely right. We were just down in Johnson checking out the Neutral Buoyancy Pool, which I think is one of the largest pools in the country, and you can test there as well. But the most exciting test before you get the ISS is actually the parabolic flight.
Speaker 7:So you
Speaker 9:might have seen those videos of people on the planes. Oh, yeah. And these planes go up and down in parabolas, they go at the same speed of gravity downwards, and that gives you free fall. And people misconstrue space and orbit, and that zero g feeling you actually get is actually free fall. And so we'll be doing one of those in the New Year, which will be super exciting.
Speaker 1:So your your robots, will they be primarily, like, inside the International Space Station?
Speaker 2:They're gonna put them outside?
Speaker 1:That dial then go outside, or are they multipurpose? How do you think about the kind of, two use cases, and are they even that different at all if you're a robot?
Speaker 13:Yeah. So, our plan is initially to start off by, having these robots do essentially what we call IVA operations. That's inside the vehicle. So our robot is designed, basically to be propelled, by fans and some other sort of, like, niche push mechanisms that will maybe show a little bit later. But It's kinda Yeah.
Speaker 13:So, ultimately, what we wanted to do is deploy here first because it's actually an amazing place where you have the kind of guardrails of having humans in the loop. You have humans around it so that if anything goes really, really wrong, you know, it's not just gonna flow down into the middle of nowhere. Someone can recover it. So that's kind of the big reason why we went, you know, to go to the IVA first because most people are looking over this, really.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for stopping by the show. We will talk to you later.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Incredible.
Speaker 2:Congratulations.
Speaker 1:Let us know. Let us know if there's we have a pretty harsh environment here in the UltraDome. If you need
Speaker 12:some some
Speaker 1:testing, just give us a There we go. Big gun hit.
Speaker 2:Six point one?
Speaker 1:Six point one million?
Speaker 13:Yeah. 6.1. Nice
Speaker 2:work, guys. Love it.
Speaker 3:Love it.
Speaker 1:Congratulations. Congrats on the race.
Speaker 4:We'll talk to We'll
Speaker 1:see you at the series a. Cheers.
Speaker 2:Innocent bystander says Tim Cook could secure his legacy with one move. Can you guess what it is, Jordy? A home printer that works. Home printer that works.
Speaker 1:Simple stuff.
Speaker 2:Crazy. Do you think
Speaker 1:printer prints like 5,000,000,000 USD a year.
Speaker 2:I found a paper company. This is, deeply ironic because we are, of course, partnered with ramp.com. Save time and money. Get rid of your paper receipts. That's right.
Speaker 2:But I found a paper company that's worth the same amount in market cap as Ramp.
Speaker 1:Not for long.
Speaker 2:Not for long. We're gonna take them down. You're gonna hear some really negative investigative journalism from short reports about this paper company.
Speaker 1:It's funny. So Julie Julie Chang in this reply says they're called brother laser printers.
Speaker 2:Yes. We love a brother.
Speaker 1:We we run on We brother
Speaker 2:love brother laser printers.
Speaker 1:Technology brothers True. Run on brother.
Speaker 2:Do you think that Apple's never done the home printer because of environmental concerns around, like, don't print, don't waste paper?
Speaker 1:Obviously, not the future.
Speaker 2:Also, I feel like this is one of those things where if I look way back over the over the past, like, forty years of Apple history, I bet they did a printer at one point. Remember they did didn't Apple do a camera? Like, a handheld digital camera at one point That was its own device. So Apple's Apple's dipped their toes in here and there, but I would love I would love a proper home printer from app from Apple.
Speaker 1:Oh, wait. So, well, according to Gemini, while it may seem surprising to many today, Apple was once a significant player in the computer printer market. What? For nearly two decades, the company designed and sold a range of printers from early dot matrix models to groundbreaking laser printers that played a pivotal role in the desktop publishing revolution. They started in the late seventies with the Apple Silent Type, a thermal printer.
Speaker 1:However, it was the ImageWriter series produced in the early nineteen eighties that became a popular companion
Speaker 5:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:To the Apple two.
Speaker 2:And then they got out of the business?
Speaker 1:Yeah. You can find these on eBay. Apple Writer two printer.
Speaker 2:It probably works fine. What's wrong?
Speaker 1:It looks
Speaker 2:Tim Cook should come out with a statement. Hey, they're
Speaker 1:out Pick up. Rainbow
Speaker 2:You want it so much if it's not just stated preference. If it's revealed preference, go get yourself an Apple printer, I guess it exists. In other news, UFC is happening on the South Lawn of the White House, and they, they took a page out of our set design. I see an UltraDome.
Speaker 1:It's time to trust.
Speaker 2:It's time to trust. They're trust up. They're trust Don't
Speaker 1:go trust for trust with the White House.
Speaker 2:No. No. You do not wanna go trust for trust with them.
Speaker 1:They gotta they gotta get Is
Speaker 2:a real photo, is this CGI or something? Like, what's going on here?
Speaker 1:They gotta get This is artist rendering? It's CGI. I was looking at it
Speaker 2:for CGI. Right? Because, like, I they're was scoping out their trust. This has not happened yet.
Speaker 1:Are you guys kidding? This is, like, most obviously CGI image I've ever seen in my life. Like, what do
Speaker 2:you I can't tell anymore. I don't even But he don't even specify.
Speaker 1:You think they just set up a bunch of the the 10,000 people?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I I'm not a political person. I don't follow politics that closely. So I don't know. This might have happened.
Speaker 2:I'm also it's double bad because I'm not into politics, and I'm also not into sports. So you could have told me, oh, yeah. UFC happened at the White House last weekend. I'd be like, oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I guess I guess it did. Anyway, we have our next guest in the Restream waiting room. Austin is coming into the TVP and Ultradome. Welcome to the show, Austin. Good to finally have you.
Speaker 5:What's up,
Speaker 2:We've reacted to many posts on this
Speaker 4:Thank new
Speaker 2:you for your service to the timeline. Good to see Long
Speaker 11:long time listener. First time caller.
Speaker 2:Thanks for hopping on. Big Big What's going on in your world? What you got, folks?
Speaker 8:Yeah. We just announced our $6,000,000 seed round. That is Gong worthy.
Speaker 11:Gong worthy. Gong worthy also, but as of as of three days ago, we're officially a Ramp customer.
Speaker 1:Let's go.
Speaker 5:Let's
Speaker 2:That's amazing. There we go.
Speaker 1:He's up. Let's go.
Speaker 2:Love it.
Speaker 1:That is amazing. Congratulations. And
Speaker 2:Extremely bullish for your business.
Speaker 1:You had launched the product. This is another launch. We were talking earlier. You you gotta always just be launching. So and and launch again too.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we we story
Speaker 11:of the company. Had a waitlist. We've we've kind of had a waitlist since the beginning, and so we've been a little constrained on how quickly we can add customers. We still are a bit, but we've been adding a ton of customers all day today. And so we are launching to general availability for the first time today, and we had about 15,000 people on the wait list who all got invited in today.
Speaker 11:And we still don't have free trials, so everyone has to pay to use the product. But but yeah, we're adding customers really quickly. And and I guess I have to talk about the product. So how is the people's secretary? So, it is a secretary that is part human, part AI.
Speaker 11:So we have really sophisticated models that do all the things that a great assistant does on scheduling. It knows where you take your meetings, when you take your meetings, how you want buffers, how many meetings you wanna take per day, subtle hints on priority of different types of meetings, and, can follow-up to make sure meetings get scheduled and all of those types of things. And, and so it's powerful AI models that do all these things in a simulation, and then we have humans who are checking because our customers are founders, VCs, all sorts of folks who have a really low tolerance for mistakes on this type of scheduling. And so so when our models are not confident enough, we have a twenty four seven team of humans who are checking these simulations and approving them before they go out or correcting them in this kind of, like, cursor for EAs system that we've built. So it's an extremely overengineered product to solve a relatively or seemingly simple problem, but it's actually, like, pretty hard to get it as good as a as a phenomenal executive assistant would.
Speaker 11:And so that's the product.
Speaker 2:How are you thinking about pricing? I feel like they're, you know, hiring a full time EA is expensive, and we've seen the rise of these offshore services that are still, like, very expensive compared to, like, even a ChatGPT Pro plus Giga subscription. Where do you wanna play? Where do you think that there's opportunity to create, you know, a delta between what people pay and get value from?
Speaker 11:Yeah. The framing is kind of interesting because it's like we have people who say they're switching from, like, a virtual assistant service that costs $3,000 a month to Howie because they're mostly using that for scheduling, and Howie's better at at scheduling, and it's $24.07. But then there's also people that are like, well, Calendly is $12 a month. Why would I pay you guys more than that? And
Speaker 2:so so
Speaker 11:it's been kind of interesting, but we so our pricing is $35 a month for our base product and then and then 145 for Howie Pro. And you the main thing you get there is, white label. So you can rename your Howie and give it an email at your domain. And, Turner Novak named his Chamov.
Speaker 2:I was about to say, was that you? I remember
Speaker 1:seeing that, couldn't he? That was a joke, but it's That's very good.
Speaker 8:He has to, like,
Speaker 11:schedule his meetings. And, yeah, and then you can do, like, more sophisticated, like, complex preferences for on Howie Pro, but the white label is the main thing people pay for. And and so, yeah, we've gotten definitely some pushback, especially without free trials. But overall, we have we for the right people, our product becomes instantly indispensable. And it's primarily people who schedule a ton of external meetings who just, like, immediately cannot live without it once they start using it.
Speaker 1:What, how long do you think it will take for, like, your internal software and the models to get good enough to never need that sort of, like, human verification layer?
Speaker 11:So I think about it like self driving cars. It's like we the things like, the a couple years ago, every Waymo on the street had a person in the car holding the steering wheel. Now for the most part, they don't. But if you see a Waymo on an icy road in Lake Tahoe, there's someone holding the steering wheel. And so we will keep pushing farther out and always be bringing tech bringing, like, a product experience to the market that is not possible with today's technology where we have humans holding the steering wheel on the the kind of next leading edge things, and more and more goes back to the model.
Speaker 11:So we are already giving more to the models than we were even, like, a month ago, but but we'll keep kinda keep adding complexity. So whether that's, like, travel booking, anything that, like, an EA does, and then a lot of things that EAs don't do but that people could use in terms of, like, metalwork about help helping, like, attention to how you're spending your time and what your priorities are. And so there's lot of things we can do that are gonna be error prone, and we will always be, like, willing to lean on humans to push out a little farther than than would be possible with just the models.
Speaker 2:Have you thought about an even higher tier? I feel like there's maybe an opportunity to add human in the loop and at at at that multi thousand dollar price point. But what what what do you think that it's just like doesn't make any sense for the business, would take you away from the the the the true goal here? What are you thinking?
Speaker 11:So we use humans in a loop, and they so when we started doing that, it was me doing this. And I was, like, typing in Google Calendar API calls into the browser myself, and and basic and that that was, like, in January. And it would take me thirty minutes or so to complete many of these tasks. And now we have twenty four seventeen, we have 60 people that do this, and they can do it in do these tasks in, like, ninety seconds. So it's like they're quickly seeing the reasoning notes and all these things and the entire simulation of what happened, and then they can chat with it.
Speaker 11:So they can say, like, oh, you got the time zone wrong. Like Yep. Dougherty is normally in Pacific time, but he said he said this is for, like, the when they're doing the New York Stock Exchange thing, so so it needs to be on Eastern time. And then and then it'll, like, resimulate in front of your eyes. So we've leaned a lot into speeding up the humans in completing these tasks to where we don't really need a steeper for what we're offering today, we don't need to charge more than we do.
Speaker 11:But it is totally possible that we will have something more advanced. But, really, it's just like, how can we, on the scale of hundreds of dollars a month or even less, give millions of people the an experience that is as good as what the top kind of point 01% of people who have a great
Speaker 1:because in you can in in for scheduling because somebody that like, somebody that could be on the other side of the world when if you had an EA, they'd be sleeping. They could be messaging and scheduling time. They get that instant booking and confirmation, and you get that twenty four seven, like, live experience that no EA today can offer. You need a rotating crew of EAs. So I think, yeah, it's it's Yeah.
Speaker 1:And and the other thing too is like, if if you're like, need to clear your schedule if it's like eleven at night and you realize, okay, I need to do something in the morning. I'm not gonna be able to do these meetings. You can like instantly just like hit a button and and clear out the schedule and and have it done in a way that's like thoughtful for the people on the other side. How would on the fundraising side, I mean, I'm a small invest angel. But and and when I when you first pitched me this, I was like, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:It's like a simple idea, big TAM. I think you can use AI to create something that is just remarkably better than like the current SaaS offerings. But in some ways, it's like an obvious idea at so and and that can be a double edged sword. Sometimes investors are like, oh, this is a no brainer. I would I would use this.
Speaker 1:I know a bunch of people that would use this. But then on the other side, I've I'm sure you got the question of like, what if OpenAI does this? Or questions like that. So how is it navigating those kind of conversations?
Speaker 11:Yeah. I mean, earlier on, I was more concerned because I've realized how unbelievably hard it is to actually execute on this product. And and so and I think that, like, there's a challenge. We spent all of last year, which you know, Jordi, like, the thing was making mistakes. We were I was apologizing.
Speaker 11:I spent fifty hours a week apologizing to customers for mistakes that we were making, but but during that time, we learned we saw all of the kind of mistake patterns, and we were able to kind of build our first version of a map of what we think the EA needs to do in all these different scenarios, and that doesn't exist in publicly available training data. It's like what happens in the assistant the executive assistant's head as they're doing scheduling, and that's not publicly available anywhere. There's lots of training data that's calendar data and email data, but the kind of, like, what happens in the in the EA's brain isn't. And I think you have to put a pretty bad product into market in order to get a good one in this category, and that's tough for bigger companies like OpenAI to actually do. And and then to deliver a product as good as ours with human in the loop, like, that's that's also just they wanna they wanna bring something to to a million customers on day one, and that's pretty tough to do.
Speaker 11:Even for us, it's been hard to scale this kind of human in the loop approach. And so I I think it's, like, a valid question, obviously. Like, scheduling is one of the use cases that comes up all the time. But I think by the time other folks start to get interested in it, we will be moved on to a lot more beyond just scheduling. So so it's not overly a concern, but but yeah.
Speaker 11:There's I mean, there's competitor products of ours and then and then lots of bigger companies that are trying to build things like this. There's one popular CEO that was tweeting about it just today right after our announcement about about their assistant. And so it's there there are people trying to solve this problem, and we think it's a problem that's worth solving.
Speaker 1:Secretary for the people, finally. We love it. Yep. The Well
Speaker 11:the last thing I wanna say is this the name secretary. I I I think you remember this, John, because I DM'd you about it.
Speaker 2:But Yeah.
Speaker 11:Very early episode of TBPN, Jordy mentioned Howie. And, John, you were saying, like, it should be called secretary. They should buy secretary.com. Yeah. That planted a seed in my brain because a couple months later, was thinking, like I mean, you had you made a whole case for it, but for me, it was just like there's 10,000 products out there called AI assistant.
Speaker 2:Totally kidding.
Speaker 11:And there's a word that everyone in the world knows that describes the thing that we do and we could be one of one. And so, yeah, so we're
Speaker 2:we're Yeah. What's the actual response been? Because I remember it was it was just a funny, like, counter position.
Speaker 1:Secretary also means keeper of secrets, right?
Speaker 2:It means keeper of the secrets. We have a secretary Yeah. Of the war, secretary of the interior. Like, it's a very high status position in DC. But, yeah, not many brands are using Have any of the have any of the customers been like, I don't I don't get it, or does it actually land pretty well?
Speaker 11:I mean, yeah, because, like, Jordi, there the the some people said that they thought we'd get canceled for using it that it because it's, like, too kind of
Speaker 2:But that's different than actually getting angry messages. Like, somebody can say, I think you will get angry messages, but did you get angry messages?
Speaker 11:Yes. No. So far, like and yeah. Honestly, like, it's been all positive. We leaned into it.
Speaker 11:The launch video is, like, showing is kind of starts out in the with a sort of nineteen fifties style secretary.
Speaker 8:By the
Speaker 11:end, she's kind of modern modernized, and she's a boss, which is kind of the same arc that Christina Andric's character does goes through in in madmen where she's, like, a secretary who's not treated well,
Speaker 8:and by the end, she's, like, equity holder in
Speaker 11:the business and and is a boss. And so That's fun. Yeah. So so far, it's been extremely positive, and we're really excited.
Speaker 2:Cool. Yeah. Always room to carve out, like, a different a different like, define the category. I mean, Cognition did this. Didn't they, like, kinda create the, like, the the initial, like, a a coding agent?
Speaker 2:Like, the AI software engineer was, like, when super viral.
Speaker 11:Yeah. Yeah. People were like,
Speaker 2:this it doesn't count. And they're like, okay. Well, at least you're talking about us. And then they debated it. And now people are like, yeah.
Speaker 2:Of course, coding agents exist. It's a category. Yeah. Anyway, thank you so much for hopping on the show. Awesome progress.
Speaker 2:Great catching up with you.
Speaker 1:Excited for more people to get access.
Speaker 11:Thanks for asking.
Speaker 2:Love to have you back soon. We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1:You're the man, Austin. Cheers.
Speaker 11:See you, guys.
Speaker 2:Did you see this this image of the monks in orange robes at the iPhone 17 Pro launch?
Speaker 1:Yes. I did. I thought this was so good. They're like, finally.
Speaker 2:What did think was good about it?
Speaker 12:Did you
Speaker 2:think it was a real photo?
Speaker 1:Is it AI?
Speaker 2:It's AI, baby. Oh, holy John. It falls from UFC AI.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is on another level. This is You wanted to see Drew. Great.
Speaker 2:This is a remarkable AI image,
Speaker 1:honestly. It looks very
Speaker 2:I honestly can't really clock it. The only reason I
Speaker 1:They were like,
Speaker 2:finally you shared it, I was like, this is real.
Speaker 1:You think
Speaker 2:they And then I saw a community note on it that said the picture is clearly AI generated you look at the bottom left. The the the community note could be They're
Speaker 1:like, orange iPhones, huge sign of
Speaker 2:It's really cool. It's a really cool idea that they would be into the orange iPhones. But it does seem like fake news. In other news, tomorrow is D Day on X. If you're a bot, if a spammer and you're running a bot network on x, Nikita Beer's coming for you.
Speaker 2:Tuesday is D Day. Nikita Beer will be wiping out 50 to 60% of all bots algorithmically. Then two weeks after that, we will reduce it another 25% with changes to account requirements. Very exciting news.
Speaker 1:Well
Speaker 2:X is getting cleaner, and Nikita continues to be on an absolute run over there. I've been very pleased with the algorithm.
Speaker 1:You see Patek? Closing kind of a black pill, but Patek will be raising their prices by 15%.
Speaker 9:This is rough.
Speaker 1:Today
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mega Cartier will be going up by eight to 15% as well.
Speaker 2:Well, head over to
Speaker 1:absolutelybrutal.
Speaker 2:Getbezel.com.
Speaker 1:And Before this gets priced in because unfortunately, this these kind of price changes get priced into the secondary market They do. Pretty quickly. But So the price of the brick Make a move.
Speaker 2:It's never a bad time to pull the trigger on an Aquanaut.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much
Speaker 2:for tuning in today. We had a great show. We enjoyed hanging out with all you in the chat. Thank you to John Exley for hanging out. Thanks to Conor PS for the feedback about the about the Gong hits.
Speaker 2:I'm working on it. I'm getting better every day. And thank you to Gold Rock AI for hanging out. Gold Rock, I didn't realize this. It's an ad.
Speaker 2:I saw Goldrock in the ex chat with a full full tagline of what the company does. Nice. Underrated strategy. If you're a company and you wanna promote your business, make it your tagline. Hop in the TBPN live chat.
Speaker 2:Make some good comments. We're going to have to say your name out loud. We'll be saying your brand
Speaker 1:name That's right.
Speaker 2:On the show. It's new ad. Bobby Cosmic, as always, thanks for holding it down over at Twitch. We appreciate you. Thank you to Turbo
Speaker 1:Pop. Tomorrow.
Speaker 2:We'll see you tomorrow. Goodbye.
Speaker 1:Have a great day. See you.
Speaker 2:Bye.