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Exploring the frontiers of Technology and AI
Ejaaz:
The most interesting robot of 2025 doesn't
Ejaaz:
look like a robot in fact they look like two bedside table lamps that morph
Ejaaz:
into robotic arms and fold the laundry that's on your bed no six foot five humanoid
Ejaaz:
robot just clean decisive robotic arms that do what you want it to do and remove
Ejaaz:
the most hated chore ever.
Ejaaz:
But don't take my word for it. We have the founder, Aaron Tan,
Ejaaz:
of Sincere on our show today that's going to walk us through it.
Ejaaz:
Aaron, welcome to the show.
Ejaaz:
I want to start off pretty hot and straight to the point.
Ejaaz:
What is Loom and why did you build it?
Aaron Tan:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, thanks for the intro and thanks for having me on.
Aaron Tan:
Loom, I think, in its simplest form is it's a robotic lamp.
Aaron Tan:
It's designed to not look like a robot at all. We want to sort of get rid of
Aaron Tan:
chores for people in a way without making them feel like we're adding robots into their home.
Aaron Tan:
And a lamp, based on its silhouette and its form factor, is sort of like the
Aaron Tan:
perfect shape to hire robotics in plain sight.
Aaron Tan:
So that's what we're building at Sincere.
Josh:
Aaron, I loved the video. There's some things that when I'm scrolling my timeline,
Josh:
I see and they just kind of break my mind.
Josh:
They break the perception of what it means to be a robot.
Josh:
This was one of them because so frequently I see these things that look like
Josh:
humanoid robots or you see like these kind of robotic cars or vehicles.
Josh:
This was very obscure. This was, it was lampposts that kind of turn into arms that fold your laundry.
Josh:
And it just felt very natural when I saw it. It felt right.
Josh:
There's some things you see and it just feels right. So how does this work?
Josh:
Like, is this possible that it can actually just sit as a lamppost and And then
Josh:
it can kind of reach over your bed and do the laundry while you're gone.
Josh:
Can you just explain to me how this product functions? It's just going to sit
Josh:
there and do my laundry? Is that really that simple?
Aaron Tan:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, no, I'm glad that you like it.
Aaron Tan:
And, you know, what it is, it's we...
Aaron Tan:
They're meant so that you could place them sort of anywhere in the home.
Aaron Tan:
It just so happens that when we spoke to a lot of people, it's that the bedroom
Aaron Tan:
happens to be a place where a lot of people do their laundry.
Aaron Tan:
People just dump it on the bed because it's such a large surface.
Aaron Tan:
The closet is usually nearby, so they fold the laundry in front of the bed and they put it away.
Aaron Tan:
What the workflow we sort of imagine is that, you know, you do the same things,
Aaron Tan:
except now you just get to dump your laundry on the bed.
Aaron Tan:
You walk away, you go watch a movie or, you know, have a meal.
Aaron Tan:
And then when you come back, it's supposed to feel like the laundry sort of
Aaron Tan:
magically folded and sorted themselves.
Aaron Tan:
And you only have to handle the part where you put it away yourself right at the end there.
Aaron Tan:
And yeah, we're starting with laundry folding. But you can probably imagine
Aaron Tan:
what a pair of robotic arms or single, you could buy them either by itself or as a pair.
Aaron Tan:
You can imagine all the kind of like things that it can do depending on where
Aaron Tan:
you place them in the home.
Ejaaz:
Okay so for the listeners of our show that can't
Ejaaz:
see this awesome video that's going on loop right now they're kind
Ejaaz:
of wondering how on earth this works aaron so right now they're imagining like
Ejaaz:
two bedside table lamps but can you walk us through how it works like are there
Ejaaz:
like specific claws that like pinch how do they see things how do they know
Ejaaz:
when you're out of the room and when you're not sleeping and they're going to
Ejaaz:
like poke your eyes out how does this work Yeah,
Aaron Tan:
Yeah. So you can sort of just imagine a floor lamp. So it's,
Aaron Tan:
you know, tall, skinny, single pole.
Aaron Tan:
There are sort of lamp hoods at the top of the lamp that conceals everything
Aaron Tan:
that is robotic about this lamp.
Aaron Tan:
So obviously there's going to be lights inside the lamp hood so that it can
Aaron Tan:
serve the basic purpose of a lamp.
Aaron Tan:
But with those lights, there's also robot grippers in there as well as a camera.
Aaron Tan:
A lot of people sort of like wonder about privacy about these things.
Aaron Tan:
But the great thing here is that the lamp hoods sort of conceal everything until
Aaron Tan:
you've given it permission to fold your laundry or do whatever the task may be.
Aaron Tan:
Then it sort of like almost folds back, reveals the camera, reveals the gripper,
Aaron Tan:
detects the clothing, and then goes ahead and folds.
Aaron Tan:
Obviously, it'll make sure that no one is laying in bed or on the couch or by
Aaron Tan:
the table because there's a variety of places where laundry clothing can happen. yeah
Ejaaz:
Okay, and how much does this thing cost? Like, I can imagine that for a troll
Ejaaz:
that I hate so much, I'm willing to pay like a couple grand for it.
Ejaaz:
But yeah, can you tell us how that works?
Aaron Tan:
Yeah, yeah. So we, I mean, right now we have some ideas like pricing is obviously
Aaron Tan:
a tricky one, but we want to get it to people for as cheap as possible.
Aaron Tan:
We're experimenting with two models. There's sort of two camps just from the
Aaron Tan:
people that signed up on the wait list. I'm in direct communication with them all the time.
Aaron Tan:
And it's either going to be like a one-time fixed fee sub $2,000 or maybe just
Aaron Tan:
a few hundred dollars where you buy the lamp for the lamp itself and then pay
Aaron Tan:
like a subscription for the folding.
Aaron Tan:
So it's like paying a cleaner,
Ejaaz:
Basically, like to come in every reason.
Aaron Tan:
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So we're still sort of experimenting to see what
Aaron Tan:
resonates the most with people.
Aaron Tan:
I'm happy to hear actually your guys' thoughts on what you think would be the proper pricing model.
Ejaaz:
Honestly just to like off the top of my head i
Ejaaz:
would be willing to pay it like on
Ejaaz:
a subscription level like how i would pay i pay a
Ejaaz:
cleaner to come in now every kind of like couple of weeks and covers everything
Ejaaz:
including the laundry and the folding as well which is a massive win and i was
Ejaaz:
wondering that if i could have something that is aesthetically pleasing to my
Ejaaz:
taste um and can do all the job and work for me for the cost of,
Ejaaz:
I don't know, electricity or a Netflix subscription.
Ejaaz:
I'm all game for that. Josh, do you have a conflicting opinion here?
Josh:
Yeah, as you're describing this, actually, I'm thinking about my memberships
Josh:
that I have between my Whoop and my Oura Ring and kind of the differences between the two.
Josh:
With the Oura Ring, you purchase an expensive ring for about $400 and $6 a month
Josh:
versus the Whoop that you get for free, but you're paying $30 a month.
Josh:
And I kind of actually like paying a little bit more upfront with the expectation
Josh:
that the smaller monthly payment will be in exchange for updates and continuing
Josh:
to maintain the software stack.
Josh:
So if you were to price it maybe closer to $2,000 and instead of maybe $100
Josh:
monthly fee, a $20 monthly fee, that to me feels a little more exciting because
Josh:
it's manageable. I don't really have to budget too much for the subscription.
Josh:
And I have paid up front with the promise that hopefully future software updates
Josh:
will deliver added functionality.
Josh:
So to me, at least that seems like the fun way to price this thing.
Aaron Tan:
Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, I sort of agree with you guys.
Aaron Tan:
That's sort of what I'm personally leaning on. But the thing I'm trying to be
Aaron Tan:
cautious of is, because I know that a lot of folks have also reached out and
Aaron Tan:
told me and they're kind of, you know, just sick of being tied to a bunch of subscriptions.
Aaron Tan:
I get where they're coming from, because you don't want to feel like you're
Aaron Tan:
being nickel and dime for every time you want a chore done.
Aaron Tan:
That's not the typical relationship people have with their appliances,
Aaron Tan:
like a laundry machine or a dishwasher.
Aaron Tan:
Sure um so yeah i totally see where you guys come from uh but we we probably
Aaron Tan:
have to sort of test it to see what the market says uh but yeah i
Josh:
Want to talk about design for a little bit because i mean obviously the first
Josh:
thing that stuck out was the design this is gorgeous and this was not by accident
Josh:
this was a very intentional design it looks very friendly it doesn't look robotic
Josh:
or mean or or anything like.
Aaron Tan:
That can you walk
Josh:
Me through the design process how you wound up with this because i mean at first
Josh:
glance we're watching the video now it looks like they're just two fixed lampposts
Josh:
to a bed there's no sign of it being a robot so can you walk us through just
Josh:
like the thought process behind designing these types of robots for the home.
Aaron Tan:
Yeah yeah i mean so i think
Aaron Tan:
you know i when we set out to build this product we
Aaron Tan:
didn't knew that this was going to be the thing that we built and
Aaron Tan:
in fact the first thing that we tried to build as a company uh is
Aaron Tan:
me and my co-founder and we have a small team of about six people here right
Aaron Tan:
now um we actually were building a
Aaron Tan:
humanoid first because we were
Aaron Tan:
uh we were you know we didn't we had just finished our phds and
Aaron Tan:
we were you know just we didn't think too much about the idea we
Aaron Tan:
just didn't want to do chores as as most engineers i
Aaron Tan:
guess are pretty lazy um so we we went
Aaron Tan:
in and we built a humanoid robot two arms and
Aaron Tan:
two wheels you know got it into homes got it into hotels
Aaron Tan:
you know got it in front of real people and it was
Aaron Tan:
only through doing that that we realized that the majority
Aaron Tan:
of people outside of like the tech bubble or like
Aaron Tan:
the you know the technical inclined population which is the majority
Aaron Tan:
of people um they they don't
Aaron Tan:
actually want something that's like pseudo-human like
Aaron Tan:
it's almost like a like a sentient being almost like a
Aaron Tan:
robotic roommate that you have to share your home with um and
Aaron Tan:
you know one thing led to another you know
Aaron Tan:
people told us it was intrusive it was a bit intimidating um there's
Aaron Tan:
no way to guarantee it sort of like falling on the child or
Aaron Tan:
just hitting things and and there's there's also
Aaron Tan:
mixing with this whole like it's probably going to be
Aaron Tan:
majority uh tele-operated so you know
Aaron Tan:
you're giving cameras and arms to people that are potentially
Aaron Tan:
overseas or somewhere else um you know when all that mixed in we just essentially
Aaron Tan:
Got a lot of pushback from people adopting the human or form factor into the
Aaron Tan:
home um so we we we as a team we sort of took a step back and we sort of thought
Aaron Tan:
to ourselves you know it certainly feels like there's all these chores that people hate doing.
Aaron Tan:
And it certainly feels like robotics is the way to get rid of these chores.
Aaron Tan:
But the way that people have been approaching the problem feels kind of the wrong way.
Aaron Tan:
It kind of feels like everybody is trying to
Aaron Tan:
Take things that made sense in an industrial setting like a
Aaron Tan:
factory where humanoids could make sense in a factory in my
Aaron Tan:
opinion but that's only because like you could train your
Aaron Tan:
staff to be cautious around the robot you can draw yellow tape
Aaron Tan:
on the line you could sort of you know all
Aaron Tan:
these like even teleoperation makes sense in a factory because at least you
Aaron Tan:
know if the robot gets hurt that the worker doesn't right so all
Aaron Tan:
these concepts they all seem like they make a lot sense in in the factory but
Aaron Tan:
it's just like when you try to take that and put it into the home it's like
Aaron Tan:
everything is wrong you know like in the home people come from all backgrounds
Aaron Tan:
all education all profession all different types of upbringing you cannot possibly
Aaron Tan:
train every single person to be a factory employee essentially
Aaron Tan:
Which like makes that whole free roaming system multi
Aaron Tan:
degrees of freedom very very hard to
Aaron Tan:
enter the home safely and then obviously teleoperation which
Aaron Tan:
I touched on it's very not private the home is a very very private space the
Aaron Tan:
factory is not it's a workspace space um so like all these things um made us
Aaron Tan:
realize that we needed to sort of think about robotics for the home completely
Aaron Tan:
differently and and i want to thank my wife here actually
Aaron Tan:
the whole thing was inspired by beauty and the beast we were watching we were
Aaron Tan:
watching beauty and the beast one night uh this is a few months ago actually
Aaron Tan:
um and it was like this scene if you guys seen the movie or if anybody listening
Aaron Tan:
who's seen the movie there's a scene where sort And the furniture comes alive.
Aaron Tan:
And that was when we realized that, you know, we should... This is the form
Aaron Tan:
factor that people are familiar with.
Aaron Tan:
It's the form factor that has a place that it belongs in the home.
Aaron Tan:
And we know that nobody wakes up asking for a robot anyway. People just don't want to do chores.
Aaron Tan:
So we sort of designed it into this lamp form factor where...
Aaron Tan:
It almost feels as if the, you know, like the, the chore sort of like magically,
Aaron Tan:
you know, completes themselves and there's never sort of like yellow tape added
Aaron Tan:
to your home and large clunking machines added to your home.
Ejaaz:
Yeah. I immediately thought of Beauty and the Beast when I actually saw this video.
Ejaaz:
And the natural question to ask from this is you're starting off with lamps,
Ejaaz:
but like what can we expect next?
Ejaaz:
Is there like a natural obvious robot that comes after the robotic arms folding laundry on the bed?
Aaron Tan:
There is um there is i will say
Aaron Tan:
at this very moment we have a lot
Aaron Tan:
of designs of a lot of different types of robots but we're
Aaron Tan:
not ready to share them yet uh the the
Aaron Tan:
ones that we for sure will build in the coming
Aaron Tan:
years is that there's going to be a sort of a suite a suite
Aaron Tan:
of lamps um from tabletop lamps to full lamps
Aaron Tan:
to lamps with multiple heads different styles different architectures we've
Aaron Tan:
sort of like went on this deep dive of like every
Aaron Tan:
single lamp that's ever been invented in the history of
Aaron Tan:
time um and we are drawing inspirations from things that's worked you know hundreds
Aaron Tan:
of years ago in terms of like the aesthetics the designs and we're just basically
Aaron Tan:
trying to find ways to modernize them add robotic abilities to them um and basically
Aaron Tan:
reinvent the lamp almost in a way from ceiling lamps all the way down to floor lamps i
Ejaaz:
I have to i have to say i i love this obsession with not just like singular
Ejaaz:
use robots but like a singular kind of type of furniture.
Ejaaz:
And it seems pretty embedded in your philosophy for building robots.
Ejaaz:
Would you say that's pretty accurate for like what the entire company's vision is?
Ejaaz:
Like, are you going to be building single use robots that do one thing really
Ejaaz:
well? Or are these going to be multi purpose at some point?
Aaron Tan:
I think they will eventually be multi purpose. But I think, you know,
Aaron Tan:
like the overall mission of the company is to be able to build beautiful robots
Aaron Tan:
that blend beautifully into human made worlds.
Aaron Tan:
And right now, what that looks like are these lamps that don't look like robots, essentially.
Aaron Tan:
But, you know, as you know, AI advances at such a, you know,
Aaron Tan:
fast pace. Hardware does as well. Technology is always changing.
Aaron Tan:
We don't want to limit ourselves eventually to just single purpose, single use.
Aaron Tan:
It's just so that right now, that is the only feasible way to deploy such a
Aaron Tan:
system into the home in the next few years.
Josh:
I'm curious how you view the difference between the single use versus humanoid robots.
Josh:
If it's an intermediary step or if it's a permanent fixture because
Josh:
it feels like the reason we're making so many humanoids is
Josh:
just because like the world is built for humans right and it's just very easy to
Josh:
integrate something that has the same form as us um and
Josh:
these narrow use you'll at least right now as kind of an intermediary step where
Josh:
they're just really good at a few things mostly because humanoid robots aren't
Josh:
that great and they're kind of they need to tell operation like you mentioned
Josh:
before and there's a lot more maintenance required for a complex humanoid robot
Josh:
do you view these narrow use robots as an intermediate step to humanoid?
Josh:
Or do you think they're like a permanent fixture as we move forward and progress with robots?
Aaron Tan:
Yeah, yeah. I think more of the latter than the former. And I have so many thoughts on this, actually.
Aaron Tan:
But I'll sort of start with one at a time.
Aaron Tan:
I think that the way I sort of imagine this, how this plays out is that,
Aaron Tan:
you know, like the human noise form factor, obviously, is great.
Aaron Tan:
Like, again, like I see so many benefits of it, especially in a factory setting,
Aaron Tan:
because there's just so many use cases where it doesn't make sense to sort of
Aaron Tan:
have like a single device that handles all.
Aaron Tan:
There's always these kind of like last mile type of tasks where you
Aaron Tan:
would need an adaptable form factor to be able to handle um but
Aaron Tan:
the thing is you know the one analogy that
Aaron Tan:
i like to use is that in the best case scenario a humanoid robot let's just
Aaron Tan:
like sort of um scale it to the limits let's imagine that they are basically
Aaron Tan:
as good as us so they look like us talk like us you know think like us act like
Aaron Tan:
us i know there's a future where they're actually better than us but for the
Aaron Tan:
sake of this let's just assume that we'll
Josh:
Try that line there.
Aaron Tan:
Yeah let's draw the line that they cap at exactly like
Aaron Tan:
us perfect and and in this world
Aaron Tan:
so they become indistinguishable right this is the best case scenario which
Aaron Tan:
in my personal opinion will take a few miracles and probably a few decades to
Aaron Tan:
get to um but in this world um
Aaron Tan:
i personally think that uh a version
Aaron Tan:
of that world already exists right now uh and it's like you guys hire cleaners
Aaron Tan:
to to sort of enter your home and these are sort of like you know people that
Aaron Tan:
you hire to to do labor uh but the thing is like there's this stat that's the
Aaron Tan:
surprising stat that i found in estates which is that 70 of people uh
Aaron Tan:
If they're able to afford such a help, they still choose not to.
Aaron Tan:
And I used to think that it's because people can't afford it.
Aaron Tan:
That's why they don't want it.
Aaron Tan:
But the truth actually is that 70% of the people who can afford it still don't choose to do it.
Aaron Tan:
And the reason quite simply is just that humans are territorial.
Aaron Tan:
The home is a private space. There's sort of this trust that you're giving to
Aaron Tan:
others when they enter your personal space that a lot of people don't find comfortable with.
Aaron Tan:
In fact, I think another surprising stat was that I think it was like a quarter
Aaron Tan:
of the people, if they were given free in-home help, they would still reject it for the same reason.
Aaron Tan:
So when all that blended in together, at best case scenario,
Aaron Tan:
I'm sure that there is a segment of the market that will happily welcome a humanoid into their home.
Aaron Tan:
But I'm willing to bet that the majority of the market, at least for the home
Aaron Tan:
use case, simply just want tools that they can sort of like control on demand, that they can use.
Aaron Tan:
They're still very much the owner of their space and they're not sharing sort
Aaron Tan:
of with like a robotic roommate.
Aaron Tan:
I mean, that's also one of the reasons why people don't prefer to live with
Aaron Tan:
roommates unless it's for companionship.
Aaron Tan:
But I don't think that robot companionship is something that's going to happen.
Aaron Tan:
It's not a robot thing. I think it's a human thing.
Aaron Tan:
So that's sort of like how I see like we're essentially addressing the market
Aaron Tan:
that simply just don't want to share their space, whether it be with another
Aaron Tan:
human or a pseudo human per se.
Josh:
Do you think people are coming around to that idea as robots become more prevalent
Josh:
in the world to let them into their spaces? Because I think a lot of people
Josh:
in the case of AI, they they have slowly kind of eased their way into it.
Josh:
And then there reaches a point.
Josh:
I mean, I'm thinking of ChatGPT when I think of this, where they just fully
Josh:
unload everything. And now it becomes their therapist, their psychologist,
Josh:
their personal assistant, everything.
Josh:
It just learns everything about their life. There was some reluctance to get
Josh:
to that point, but eventually they've reached that point.
Josh:
Do you see a similar thing happening here? Even just with the pre-orders and
Josh:
feedback you've gotten from the product, is this something that people are willing
Josh:
to put in their homes or does there still need to be more work in terms of safety?
Josh:
I mean, if I'm thinking, like I just had a child, let's say,
Josh:
and that child's sitting in the bed.
Josh:
Well, no, I didn't. I'm just using a rhetorical example. Okay, okay.
Josh:
In the case that I did, let's say that I have one just like laying in my bed
Josh:
over here and there are two robotic arms sitting there.
Josh:
Do I trust that the robotic arms are not going to harm that child in any sort of glitch?
Josh:
And do you think people are having trouble getting over that idea?
Josh:
Or do you see it just being this natural stepping stone and people are on board and ready to go?
Aaron Tan:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the world, the average home has never,
Aaron Tan:
I think that even the average person has never even interacted with a robot in their life.
Aaron Tan:
I think that this is like a sort of a brand new category of product that will
Aaron Tan:
for sure, you know, sort of take some time for people to get used to.
Aaron Tan:
I think that you know obviously we're going to have the early adopters that
Aaron Tan:
come on and they get super excited about such a thing and the way we're framing
Aaron Tan:
our product is that it's both safer and more private
Aaron Tan:
than the alternative home robotic solution
Aaron Tan:
simply just because you as a resident in the home know at all times where the robot is
Aaron Tan:
so for example if you had placed your child on a bed and you had a human or
Aaron Tan:
a robot So maybe you cannot fully protect that child from the human robot because
Aaron Tan:
the human robot sort of has free will to roam.
Aaron Tan:
But because you already know that the robotic arms are there by the bed,
Aaron Tan:
which is where you placed it, it's not going to leave.
Aaron Tan:
Maybe the question is more so like if you don't trust it, then you probably
Aaron Tan:
place your baby somewhere else, you know, because you mentally know that that
Aaron Tan:
is like a robotic space, almost part of your home.
Ejaaz:
I feel like we're kind of broaching the topic of humans being comfortable around robots.
Ejaaz:
And if I'm being honest with you, Aaron, I was kind of a robot hater like a
Ejaaz:
couple of months ago because I was like, what are these like random sci-fi things
Ejaaz:
that it must be all janky?
Ejaaz:
I see videos of them falling over.
Ejaaz:
Josh and I actually watched the Robot Olympics that were held in China over the weekend.
Ejaaz:
And most of them were kind of like fails and they were super entertaining.
Ejaaz:
Um i'm kind of trying to
Ejaaz:
figure out whether people are getting more comfortable with
Ejaaz:
these robots and kind of like co-living around them right
Ejaaz:
how important or real you think this phenomenon is do you think this is just
Ejaaz:
kind of like a viral trend i know like you've got a company that's building
Ejaaz:
these robots for decades from now but can you help us help our listeners understand
Ejaaz:
the pitch of why robots are going to like essentially take over the world over
Ejaaz:
the next couple of decades
Aaron Tan:
Yeah i mean i i hope
Aaron Tan:
they don't take over the world to be honest um i hope that
Aaron Tan:
they i hope that they you know make the world a better place i guess i should
Aaron Tan:
say i think that robots are at the end of the day a tool and they shouldn't
Aaron Tan:
be sort of like autonomous self-thinking beings um that that act on their own
Aaron Tan:
behalf with their own interests uh i think that that's
Aaron Tan:
going to be a dangerous world um and i
Aaron Tan:
don't know if i yeah i personally i don't know if i want to live in a world like that uh
Aaron Tan:
for in terms of like sort of
Aaron Tan:
like you know getting getting robots into the home again like our main thing
Aaron Tan:
is that we want to free people's time like when you think about it it's 24 hours
Aaron Tan:
in a day and it's like people sleep for eight hours work for eight hours the
Aaron Tan:
remaining eight hours a day probably a good chunk of that is commute or chores
Aaron Tan:
or whatever So even if you could just save someone like 30 minutes, an hour,
Aaron Tan:
that's like a good percentage of the time in their day, right?
Aaron Tan:
That's freed up. And I think that's ultimately a good thing.
Aaron Tan:
And I think the way that we sort of,
Aaron Tan:
sort of introduce robots into the home is that we have to be very,
Aaron Tan:
very intentional with messaging, which is that, and I think this can only be
Aaron Tan:
achieved with a single purpose robot to start with, which is that you have to
Aaron Tan:
be able to tell people like what it can and cannot do.
Aaron Tan:
Don't tell people that's general purpose. Don't tell people that it's a human
Aaron Tan:
assistant that you can ask anything of.
Aaron Tan:
Just say that, you know, at least for us is that it will fold laundry and this
Aaron Tan:
is how you interact with it. You dump the laundry on the bed, you walk away.
Aaron Tan:
It can be voice activation. it can be a button like a dishwasher it
Aaron Tan:
could be an app that you sort of log into and you you
Aaron Tan:
you give a permission to activate um and only
Aaron Tan:
when you do that very very clearly and you tell people exactly what the workspace
Aaron Tan:
is uh like something that i like is you know from like the vr world you can
Aaron Tan:
sort of like draw this boundary around you when you're in the living room and
Aaron Tan:
as you're sort of approach the walls it kind of like lights up and you know you know to go back
Aaron Tan:
it's like similar concept but for robots in the home like i think
Aaron Tan:
robots need to have like a fixed space that people know
Aaron Tan:
where it's operating um you should be able
Aaron Tan:
to know when it's on and when it's off um and
Aaron Tan:
you should know exactly what it can and cannot do uh i think that's how you
Aaron Tan:
would be able to manage expectations and that's how you earn trust and that's
Aaron Tan:
how i think you'll be able to build like a generation of people that might grow
Aaron Tan:
up with one of these lamps uh to have that positive connotation and positive
Aaron Tan:
interaction with uh with robotics uh yeah yeah
Ejaaz:
You keep referring to this home, which I love. So let's play a game.
Ejaaz:
Five to 10 years from now, what
Ejaaz:
does the average home look like in a world where home robots are a thing?
Ejaaz:
What else are they doing aside from folding clothes?
Aaron Tan:
Yeah, yeah. So folding laundry is like our wedge into the home just because
Aaron Tan:
it's like, and I'm sure you already know this, it's like a very annoying task
Aaron Tan:
that people would actually pay money for.
Aaron Tan:
Uh and once the the
Aaron Tan:
internal saying is you know success to us is a loom in every room
Aaron Tan:
um which is that we we see a world where
Aaron Tan:
people own multiple of these lamps and depending on where they're placed
Aaron Tan:
in the home they'll do whatever task that makes sense in
Aaron Tan:
that context so for example a loom that's
Aaron Tan:
in the kitchen might be able to help you with meal prepping whereas
Aaron Tan:
a loom that's in your you know library might be
Aaron Tan:
able to help you with tidying your bookshelf um and
Aaron Tan:
and the whole idea is that you kind of
Aaron Tan:
have these like limited range and limited pockets of where
Aaron Tan:
the robot is um and and
Aaron Tan:
yeah it will do whatever sort of we almost
Aaron Tan:
wanted to be uh i sort of mentioned the other interview i
Aaron Tan:
said that there will be like an app store almost um where
Aaron Tan:
you'll be able to download different apps and you know
Aaron Tan:
like gift wrapping is an app steaming is an app laundry folding is an
Aaron Tan:
app uh meal prepping is an app oh super like
Aaron Tan:
sorting of knickknacks around the home whatever is an
Aaron Tan:
app and it's all enabled by the same form factor uh we we see this almost like
Aaron Tan:
a kind of like the standard almost the default the foundational robot platform
Aaron Tan:
uh that exists in every home that you can now go to get chores done or get tasks
Aaron Tan:
done maybe it's not necessarily chores
Josh:
So if laundry is the wedge, what comes next? What other cool,
Josh:
weird things can we expect to come from these arms?
Ejaaz:
We're going to keep pushing you on this, Aaron. Come on, give us something.
Aaron Tan:
There's like, so the way I see it is there's like almost like three phases.
Aaron Tan:
Maybe I'll say this. There's three phases of how we're going to increase the capabilities.
Aaron Tan:
And it's all going to revolve around the same sort of form factor.
Aaron Tan:
So phase one is is any kind
Aaron Tan:
of like sort of inanimate object type manipulation so laundry
Aaron Tan:
folding being one but bed making or general sorting
Aaron Tan:
meal prepping tidying ironing steaming you know all that kind of just like random
Aaron Tan:
stuff around the home you know we want to get really good at this stuff before
Aaron Tan:
we move on to the second phase which is what i would call like the non-invasive
Aaron Tan:
human contact type applications and those include things like massages therapy rehab
Aaron Tan:
things that you could sort of get while you're sitting on the couch or laying
Aaron Tan:
in bed. Massages is one big one that people love.
Aaron Tan:
So that's something that we're going to go into.
Aaron Tan:
But again, anything with human contact, obviously, you want to be a lot more careful.
Aaron Tan:
That's why we want to be slow with our rollout to make sure that these arms
Aaron Tan:
are stable, they're precise, they're sort of compliant, and they're safe.
Aaron Tan:
And then ultimately, we go towards this like phase three, which I want to say
Aaron Tan:
is more like an invasive human contact.
Aaron Tan:
Where we sort of see this world where
Aaron Tan:
You know, here you have these two pairs of robotic arms that's in your home somewhere.
Aaron Tan:
And we think that this can open up a world of healthcare applications where
Aaron Tan:
doctors can remote into these arms and deliver care right in the comfort of your home.
Aaron Tan:
So an example could be like, you know, you cut yourself downstairs,
Aaron Tan:
you go upstairs, and now there's these like professional arms with a healthcare app or something.
Aaron Tan:
And you can get stitched up immediately while laying in bed or whatever it is
Aaron Tan:
without having to drive like two hours just to wait six hours in an emergency
Aaron Tan:
room and see a doctor for like two minutes.
Aaron Tan:
We think that ultimately, you know, the most scalable way to healthcare is through the home.
Aaron Tan:
And to do that is through, I think, robots that have the ability to manipulate
Aaron Tan:
soft objects, started with laundry folding, have the ability to be careful and
Aaron Tan:
have the ability to have already earned people's trust in homes.
Aaron Tan:
So when you ask what the future of home could look like, I almost see a world
Aaron Tan:
where there's almost like a, you know, you have like a kitchen,
Aaron Tan:
which is like where you go to cook, you have a living room, you have the bedroom,
Aaron Tan:
but there should also be almost like a health hub,
Aaron Tan:
which probably is going to be doubled on as your bedroom, where you can receive
Aaron Tan:
care without having to leave your home.
Aaron Tan:
So that's kind of like the full spectrum of potential things that I think can
Aaron Tan:
happen without changing the form factor too much.
Josh:
Okay, now I want to talk about timelines. And I know these are really hard and fuzzy.
Josh:
But you mentioned a bit earlier that humanoid robots that look and feel just
Josh:
like humans, that line that we drew, that probably takes decades.
Josh:
So this will take less than decades, I'm going to assume.
Josh:
And in fact, on the website, it says 2026 by the time we can expect,
Josh:
I guess, the first version.
Josh:
So what does it look like? I mean, in this category specifically,
Josh:
but broadly speaking, how long is it until the average person do you think can
Josh:
expect to have a robot inside of their home?
Josh:
Is it going to be next year? Is it going to be in the next five years, decade?
Aaron Tan:
Yeah. I mean, if you're talking about like mainstream adoption,
Aaron Tan:
that's going to take at least a decade, right?
Aaron Tan:
I think the last time the home received like a huge sort of like mass tech adoption
Aaron Tan:
was in the 50s, where things like the microwave and all these kind of like appliances
Aaron Tan:
made like a huge adoption.
Aaron Tan:
I think I saw a stat that was like before the 50s, it was like under 30% adoption.
Aaron Tan:
After the 50s, it was like above 80% adoption or something like that.
Aaron Tan:
But it did take over like that decade.
Aaron Tan:
Uh for us uh we will
Aaron Tan:
ship our robots uh actually the there's an
Aaron Tan:
early beta tester club now and they're going to get there six months from now
Aaron Tan:
and these are primarily folks in the bay area that have reached out specifically to
Aaron Tan:
me um and we're basically trying going to
Aaron Tan:
install i'll personally go to their homes and install these systems
Aaron Tan:
for them um in the next six or
Aaron Tan:
so months um and the goal is that 12 months from now uh
Aaron Tan:
we have a pretty large wait list but we're just basically going to sort of like
Aaron Tan:
get people off of that main wait list starting 12 months from now at a sort
Aaron Tan:
of a slow pace probably geographically closer to the bay area first um and then
Aaron Tan:
expand uh sort of nationwide from there that's
Josh:
Exciting so now i want to ask how practical is it
Josh:
are they going to look like the arms in this video because i'm assuming that
Josh:
was a rendering right and you guys are building and designing and i know a lot
Josh:
of times to create the actual thing in a factory is a lot harder than designing
Josh:
the pixels on a screen so what does the process look like to actually make it
Josh:
look as elegant as the lamps that you showed in the rendering?
Josh:
And do you feel confident about your ability to get there?
Aaron Tan:
Yeah, yeah. So those renderings are designed by our engineers.
Aaron Tan:
And so they're not, I don't know if I mentioned this earlier,
Aaron Tan:
some people thought that they were like AI generated videos,
Aaron Tan:
but I always say I wish it was AI generated so I didn't have to pay so much money for it.
Aaron Tan:
Yeah, I'm sure. Money was spent, it was beautiful.
Aaron Tan:
But yes, thank you. It will get pretty close to it. I have like a segment of the arm here.
Aaron Tan:
And this is spec to sort of the actual width of the shaft.
Aaron Tan:
So that's how it will be um these are like sort of the lampids and these are actually the robotic
Aaron Tan:
um yeah so it will be uh roughly that
Aaron Tan:
it might be a little bit shorter um and the
Aaron Tan:
claws i think i don't want to call them claws because it might scare people
Aaron Tan:
but uh the artists um i didn't
Aaron Tan:
it was my fault because i didn't catch it the the claws look a bit metallic
Aaron Tan:
uh in the video uh but they're not meant to be metallic they're supposed to
Aaron Tan:
be like rubberish um so some people i pointed that out saying they look almost
Aaron Tan:
like surgical tools i'm like in phase three they'll start looking a little bit
Aaron Tan:
more like surgical tools but not right now i
Josh:
Admire the fact that you are making the home look different for the first time
Josh:
in 50 years i think a lot of the stagnation has happened in this where we talk
Josh:
about this a lot in the world of of atoms where just if you if i go into my
Josh:
grandmother's house it hasn't changed in 50 years but it doesn't look like it
Josh:
doesn't belong in this century,
Josh:
aside from like maybe the plastic on the couch and like some outdated ornamentaries.
Josh:
But in terms of technology, I mean, there's a TV on the wall,
Josh:
there's a microwave in the kitchen.
Josh:
It's all relatively the same. And I think a huge part that moves us forward
Josh:
into this future looking like the future is robots.
Josh:
And a big part of that is robots in our home. It's making us feel more comfortable
Josh:
with them around. It's making them beautiful, but functional.
Josh:
And they're there to serve a purpose and to just kind of enhance everyone's life.
Josh:
So I really admire you for trying to tackle this problem, for doing it in a
Josh:
way that looks so great, for hopefully shipping these out the door very soon.
Josh:
Is there anything other parting words you want to share? How people can get
Josh:
access to them, get on the pre-order line, what they can expect?
Aaron Tan:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, just a little bit on that point.
Aaron Tan:
I think somebody mentioned to me very recently, he's like, you know,
Aaron Tan:
the only new device between my house and my grandma's house is an air fryer.
Aaron Tan:
That was like the latest breakthrough in the home, which I thought was kind
Aaron Tan:
of funny because like you said, TVs existed, refrigerators existed and all these other things.
Aaron Tan:
So, yeah, so we're hopefully we're we're hopefully, you know,
Aaron Tan:
entering into a new era where home robotics will make the next big paradigm
Aaron Tan:
shift in the home. And we want to be a part of that.
Aaron Tan:
And we want to do that in a way that makes people feel comfortable.
Aaron Tan:
We want to do that in a way where it makes your at least your home still looking
Aaron Tan:
like a, you know, like a home and beautiful and all that kind of stuff.
Aaron Tan:
So. So, yeah, happy to happy to be on on the pod today.
Aaron Tan:
If anybody listening is interested you can check us out at Sincere AI on X on
Aaron Tan:
Twitter that's where we typically post our updates Alright,
Ejaaz:
Well this has been super exciting, I feel like we're at like an iPhone moment,
Ejaaz:
I know you haven't released the product yet but we're getting there,
Ejaaz:
this is the first robot, as Josh said, kind of like that appealed to me and
Ejaaz:
that I would willingly have in my home and that I think my girlfriend would
Ejaaz:
be chill about having in my home as well versus some six foot five humanoid robot.
Ejaaz:
It sounds like these robots aren't just going to be used for practicality,
Ejaaz:
so chores around the house, but also potentially leisure in the form of massages
Ejaaz:
and also vital health care in the form of like doctor-like work that they can remotely access.
Ejaaz:
So all around, this has been a super cool conversation.
Ejaaz:
And Aaron, thank you so much for coming on. For the listeners,
Ejaaz:
if you enjoyed this, please like, subscribe and share it with all your friends.
Ejaaz:
And we'll see you on the next one.
Josh:
Awesome. See you guys.
Aaron Tan:
Thank you. Bye-bye.
Music:
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